Bron's stats are misleading and need context

[andgar923]

The myth that Bron is a superior passer and rebounder has got to stop.

I can see an argument being made that he's 'slightly' a better passer and rebounder and even then that's not the case if one watches the game.

A. Bron dominates the ball so his assists are clearly gonna be higher
B. Bron isn't as fast as reading the defense and reacting
C. Bron can't create for others like MJ can, his assists come mostly off kick outs
D. Wide open lanes make it easier to pass, specially to an open man. Try creating a good shot when the lanes are crowded and there's very small gaps, that's what MJ had to play through
E. Bron also doesn't run an offense as well as MJ, that's due to his poor ball handling and inability to use his dribbling to create passing angles and move the offense into position. He simply stands there on the perimeter or drives and kicks, MJ played like a 'true' pg and 'created'. People should watch how CP3 and Tony Parker use their ball handling to create and get the offense rolling.

Bron also gets more rebounds because there's less interior big men and more 3pt shots which create more opportunities and longer rebounds.

Im sure someone out there can post the stats that show how much he controls the ball and how many rebound opportunities exist, which can help explain his stats.

Not saying that Bron is much inferior or that he sucks, MJ is simply slightly better than he is, the numbers Bron is putting up are misleading without context.

[Trollsmasher]

The myth that Bron is a superior passer and rebounder has got to stop.

I can see an argument being made that he's 'slightly' a better passer and rebounder and even then that's not the case if one watches the game.

A. Bron dominates the ball so his assists are clearly gonna be higher
B. Bron isn't as fast as reading the defense and reacting
C. Bron can't create for others like MJ can, his assists come mostly off kick outs
D. Wide open lanes make it easier to pass, specially to an open man. Try creating a good shot when the lanes are crowded and there's very small gaps, that's what MJ had to play through
E. Bron also doesn't run an offense as well as MJ, that's due to his poor ball handling and inability to use his dribbling to create passing angles and move the offense into position. He simply stands there on the perimeter or drives and kicks, MJ played like a 'true' pg and 'created'. People should watch how CP3 and Tony Parker use their ball handling to create and get the offense rolling.

Bron also gets more rebounds because there's less interior big men and more 3pt shots which create more opportunities and longer rebounds.

Im sure someone out there can post the stats that show how much he controls the ball and how many rebound opportunities exist, which can help explain his stats.

Not saying that Bron is much inferior or that he sucks, MJ is simply slightly better than he is, the numbers Bron is putting up are misleading without context.
"someone find something that supports my assertion, please!"

you get D- for the effort, kiddo

[riseagainst]

meltdown.

Lebron >>> MJ

deal wit it.
:pimp:

[andgar923]

"someone find something that supports my assertion, please!"

you get D- for the effort, kiddo

Nope.

I don't base my assertion solely based on stats like some do. I watch the game first and foremost.

[andgar923]

meltdown.

Lebron >>> MJ

deal wit it.
:pimp:

Translation: I have nothing to counter with since everything the OP posted is true, so I will begin to avoid issue at hand by trolling.

[ISHGoat]

1-9

[Rocketswin2013]

The only time Jordan got LeBron-level assists and rebounds consistently is when he was a well-known stat padder and playoff loser.

BTW, no-one is saying LeBron is greater than Jordan, at least not seriously. I dont know why you people are so shook.


Greater is different than better.

[Jameerthefear]

OP is a moron. Lebron > Jordan
Next.

[dunksby]

All MJ accomplishments should be considered within the context of him being the league's golden boy.

[sdot_thadon]

Posts about Lebron's stats, proceeds to mention Mj 5 times......seems secure.:oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

Im sure someone out there can post the stats that show how much he controls the ball and how many rebound opportunities exist, which can help explain his stats.

LeBron in 2015 grabbed 74.5% rebounds per opportunity, that's better than the NBA's leading rebounder, DeAndre Jordan (73.6%).




http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2NJypEle7Ao/T1k2yWOdzTI/AAAAAAAAAKo/_KKu8xc3Cm8/s1600/20kav40.gif

Take this L and run with it my man :pimp:

[LEFT4DEAD]

LeBron in 2015 grabbed 74.5% rebounds per opportunity, that's better than the NBA's leading rebounder, DeAndre Jordan (73.6%).




http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2NJypEle7Ao/T1k2yWOdzTI/AAAAAAAAAKo/_KKu8xc3Cm8/s1600/20kav40.gif

Take this L and run with it my man :pimp:
dat gif :roll:

[Jameerthefear]

LeBron in 2015 grabbed 74.5% rebounds per opportunity, that's better than the NBA's leading rebounder, DeAndre Jordan (73.6%).




http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2NJypEle7Ao/T1k2yWOdzTI/AAAAAAAAAKo/_KKu8xc3Cm8/s1600/20kav40.gif

Take this L and run with it my man :pimp:
:roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He's being single-covered practically every possession. That in and of itself makes his stats misleading. Kobe/Jordan/Bird/Wade ... any ATG perimeter player in their primes would have torched this kind of defense. Every. Single. Time.

[riseagainst]

LeBron in 2015 grabbed 74.5% rebounds per opportunity, that's better than the NBA's leading rebounder, DeAndre Jordan (73.6%).




http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2NJypEle7Ao/T1k2yWOdzTI/AAAAAAAAAKo/_KKu8xc3Cm8/s1600/20kav40.gif

Take this L and run with it my man :pimp:


lol...
/rekt
/end thread
/MJ stans take the L once again

:roll:

[Trollsmasher]

LeBron in 2015 grabbed 74.5% rebounds per opportunity, that's better than the NBA's leading rebounder, DeAndre Jordan (73.6%).




http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2NJypEle7Ao/T1k2yWOdzTI/AAAAAAAAAKo/_KKu8xc3Cm8/s1600/20kav40.gif

Take this L and run with it my man :pimp:
:roll:

[StephHamann]

In today's game, the paint is empty with zero defenders.. Defenders must guard weakside 3-pointers, so they must position themselves on the far weakside BEHIND the paint, and furthest from helping on the strongside:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/P5Zone.gif



In previous eras, the paint was NEVER empty with zero defenders - defenders didn't have to guard weakside 3-pointers, so all defenders remained on the strongside and/or in the paint, and therefore closest to help on strongside action:

http://i.imgur.com/e5KeKKU.gif



Being closer to help is the ultimate effect of no-spacing.. Whereas spacing makes defenders help from further away, so they are late, rather than waiting.

Btw, even though Lebron enjoys strongside clearouts where all help defenders are furthest away from the strongside as possible, Lebron is only shooting 32.5% on isolations in these playoffs.. Lebron's low isolation efficiency is destroying his overall FG% in these playoffs, since isolations are the thing he does most often - he isolates on 33.5% of his possessions, #1 in the league!

[nba_55]

In today's game, the paint is empty with zero defenders.. Defenders must guard weakside 3-pointers, so they must position themselves on the far weakside BEHIND the paint, and furthest from helping on the strongside:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/P5Zone.gif



In previous eras, the paint was NEVER empty with zero defenders - defenders didn't have to guard weakside 3-pointers, so all defenders remained on the strongside and/or in the paint, and therefore closest to help on strongside action:

http://i.imgur.com/e5KeKKU.gif



Being closer to help is the ultimate effect of no-spacing.. Whereas spacing makes defenders help from further away, so they are late, rather than waiting.

Btw, even though Lebron enjoys strongside clearouts where all help defenders are furthest away from the strongside as possible, Lebron is only shooting 32.5% on isolations in these playoffs.. Lebron's low isolation efficiency is destroying his overall FG% in these playoffs, since isolations are the thing he does most often - he isolates on 33.5% of his possessions, #1 in the league!

LOL

[HurricaneKid]

He's being single-covered practically every possession. That in and of itself makes his stats misleading. Kobe/Jordan/Bird/Wade ... any ATG perimeter player in their primes would have torched this kind of defense. Every. Single. Time.

LOL at LeBron being single covered. There is strong side help every play.

Its just a Man/Zone hybrid.

[LikeABosh]

Here's the context.

People were predicting a GS sweep BEFORE Kyrie got hurt. Lebron has absolutely zero offensive help, shit coaching, going up against the 67 win, stacked, statistically all time great, best defense in the league.

[nba_55]

Jordan's stats are also misleading, there wouldn't the same without the ''Jordan rules''.

[colts19]

He's being single-covered practically every possession. That in and of itself makes his stats misleading. Kobe/Jordan/Bird/Wade ... any ATG perimeter player in their primes would have torched this kind of defense. Every. Single. Time.

I just can't imagine other all time greats having the kind of FG%, that Lebron is putting up against this kind of defense. MJ would juist kill this kind of defense as would all the other all time Greats. I get tired of hearing how Lebron is tired. Really I saw Larry Bird just destroy the Lakers in the Garden when it was like being in a sauna. Fresh as a daisy.

[Ne 1]

Im sure someone out there can post the stats that show how much he controls the ball and how many rebound opportunities exist, which can help explain his stats.


Simply put, LeBron is dominating the ball in these Finals more than anyone has ever.

He's at 41.3 USG%. That's higher than even Allen Iverson throughout the 2001 playoffs. (36.8)

With about 90 rebounds available between both teams this series through 5 games, he's averaging 12 rpg.


You can interpret the numbers as you wish.

[Living Being]

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn219/walmart_greeter/dog-hump-puke-eat.gif

[diamenz]

bron stans all over this thread. funny thing is, none of them have made a reply. just how old r u guys?

[DonDadda59]

Pretty much. I've never seen a player dominate the ball as much as Bron in these finals. Been listening to stans for years prattle on about how advanced the offenses and defenses are today but all I see is pure iso vs 1 on 1 defense :lol

He's worse than Iverson scoring wise. No one on the Cavs other than him touches the ball until there's maybe 4 or 5 seconds left on the shot clock. And you'd expect someone the size of Karl Malone to grab boards when the opposition's center is only 6'7" for most of the game :oldlol:

[bluechox2]

In today's game, the paint is empty with zero defenders.. Defenders must guard weakside 3-pointers, so they must position themselves on the far weakside BEHIND the paint, and furthest from helping on the strongside:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/P5Zone.gif



In previous eras, the paint was NEVER empty with zero defenders - defenders didn't have to guard weakside 3-pointers, so all defenders remained on the strongside and/or in the paint, and therefore closest to help on strongside action:

http://i.imgur.com/e5KeKKU.gif



Being closer to help is the ultimate effect of no-spacing.. Whereas spacing makes defenders help from further away, so they are late, rather than waiting.

Btw, even though Lebron enjoys strongside clearouts where all help defenders are furthest away from the strongside as possible, Lebron is only shooting 32.5% on isolations in these playoffs.. Lebron's low isolation efficiency is destroying his overall FG% in these playoffs, since isolations are the thing he does most often - he isolates on 33.5% of his possessions, #1 in the league!

/thread

[Rooster]

He's being single-covered practically every possession. That in and of itself makes his stats misleading. Kobe/Jordan/Bird/Wade ... any ATG perimeter player in their primes would have torched this kind of defense. Every. Single. Time.

Lebron just does not have enough midrange game to handle the man to man and trap zone defense that most teams employ to neutralize him. Though nowadays, the open lanes and drive and kicks for open 3 favors his game and that's why he putting up great numbers out there. However, I think no player in the league right now that can do what he did with the Cavs. It's amazing that the Cavs is still alive with that great margin of errors.

[Rooster]

Pretty much. I've never seen a player dominate the ball as much as Bron in these finals. Been listening to stans for years prattle on about how advanced the offenses and defenses are today but all I see is pure iso vs 1 on 1 defense :lol

He's worse than Iverson scoring wise. No one on the Cavs other than him touches the ball until there's maybe 4 or 5 seconds left on the shot clock. And you'd expect someone the size of Karl Malone to grab boards when the opposition's center is only 6'7" for most of the game :oldlol:

Cavs are undermanned though. You could say his numbers are inflated but I don't see the Cavs play any other way to have a chance.

[TheMan]

People need to stop comparing LeBron to Jordan. LeBron is a great player in his own right, he's having a huge series, of course his FG% is suffering with the enormous amounts of shots he's taking, he isn't on MJ's level scoringwise, never has been. But LeBron can get his teammates shots and grab boards, he's his generation's best player, without a doubt. Top 10-12 GOAT:bowdown:

[sportjames23]

The myth that Bron is a superior passer and rebounder has got to stop.

I can see an argument being made that he's 'slightly' a better passer and rebounder and even then that's not the case if one watches the game.

A. Bron dominates the ball so his assists are clearly gonna be higher
B. Bron isn't as fast as reading the defense and reacting
C. Bron can't create for others like MJ can, his assists come mostly off kick outs
D. Wide open lanes make it easier to pass, specially to an open man. Try creating a good shot when the lanes are crowded and there's very small gaps, that's what MJ had to play through
E. Bron also doesn't run an offense as well as MJ, that's due to his poor ball handling and inability to use his dribbling to create passing angles and move the offense into position. He simply stands there on the perimeter or drives and kicks, MJ played like a 'true' pg and 'created'. People should watch how CP3 and Tony Parker use their ball handling to create and get the offense rolling.

Bron also gets more rebounds because there's less interior big men and more 3pt shots which create more opportunities and longer rebounds.

Im sure someone out there can post the stats that show how much he controls the ball and how many rebound opportunities exist, which can help explain his stats.

Not saying that Bron is much inferior or that he sucks, MJ is simply slightly better than he is, the numbers Bron is putting up are misleading without context.


andgar droppin them truth bombs. :cheers:

[ArbitraryWater]

LeBron in 2015 grabbed 74.5% rebounds per opportunity, that's better than the NBA's leading rebounder, DeAndre Jordan (73.6%).




http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2NJypEle7Ao/T1k2yWOdzTI/AAAAAAAAAKo/_KKu8xc3Cm8/s1600/20kav40.gif

Take this L and run with it my man :pimp:

sry my dood, but I never got your response? this L still on you? shook it off?

[ArbitraryWater]

andgar?

[andgar923]

LeBron in 2015 grabbed 74.5% rebounds per opportunity, that's better than the NBA's leading rebounder, DeAndre Jordan (73.6%).




http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2NJypEle7Ao/T1k2yWOdzTI/AAAAAAAAAKo/_KKu8xc3Cm8/s1600/20kav40.gif

Take this L and run with it my man :pimp:

Really?

This was already shattered on another thread (someone posted the stats, which Im sure you'll accept).

The majority of his rebounds weren't contested, and in fact came at the expense of his teammate's hard work such as they boxing out while he swoops in for the easy board.

Also keep in mind most of those rebounds were defensive rebounds that came from long shots, not like he was underneath battling the big men.

Speaking of, he was the biggest player on the court on many occasions.

[ArbitraryWater]

Soo him having one of the top rebound rates in the NBA is irrelevant now :lol

cause Bran? 'they came at the expense of his teammates' do you even know what that means :roll: thats not even possible.. he grabbed 2 ORB per game, too, I'm sure a number MJ hardly ever reached.. we could literally do this for everyone.. but MJ, every board he grabbed he battled on the glass and snatched em from Hakeem, Pat, D-Rob.. right? you're like the kenneth version for MJ with the same irrational Bron stuff..

[andgar923]

Soo him having one of the top rebound rates in the NBA is irrelevant now :lol

cause Bran? 'they came at the expense of his teammates' do you even know what that means :roll: thats not even possible.. he grabbed 2 ORB per game, too, I'm sure a number MJ hardly ever reached.

Are we talking about Finals or regular season?

Im solely talking about his misleading Finals stats.

[Jameerthefear]

every rebound MJ got he snatched from the jaws of life themselves

-andgar

[plowking]

This might be the biggest fail I've seen in terms of a thread start.

Says all this shit, then asks someone to help him back up his claim. Farking lol...

This dude has been obsessed with making Bron threads ever since the finals. Clearly feeling inadequate and insecure, needing to prop up his boy MJ and pull down Bron at any chance he gets. :oldlol:

[plowking]

every rebound MJ got he snatched from the jaws of life themselves

-andgar


:roll: :roll: :roll:

andgar getting schooled by 16 year olds.

[andgar923]

every rebound MJ got he snatched from the jaws of life themselves

-andgar

Every player gets easy rebounds, nobody every denied that.

But stats show that the a good number of Lebron's rebounds were uncontested, combine that with a ton of minutes and long missed shots his stats pile up.

To top it off, MJ played in an era with tougher interior players and less 3pt shooting, so MJ's rebounds would've been tougher to get by default.

So even the stats posted by Water are misleading themselves.

He'd better get a higher percentage of rebounding opportunities because there's less opposition to get them.

[ArbitraryWater]

Bron grabbed 75% rebounds per opportunity, he simply did this by grabbing the uncontested ones.. only if other players would think about doing that :facepalm

sorry for thinking an 82-game regular season might say a bit more than a 6 game finals series.. or even validate it... :sleeping

[ProfessorMurder]

Bron grabbed 75% rebounds per opportunity, he simply did this by grabbing the uncontested ones.. only if other players would think about doing that :facepalm

sorry for thinking an 82-game regular season might say a bit more than a 6 game finals series.. or even validate it... :sleeping
Where the heck are you getting those numbers?

[Charlie Sheen]

"someone find something that supports my assertion, please!"

you get D- for the effort, kiddo

:oldlol: