Who is the 2nd Greatest SF Ever?

[DFish24]

2/6 pretty much cemented Larry Legend as the best SF ever to me. For me #2 pretty much comes down to Bran and Dr. J. I think it's really close but I give a slight edge to Dr. J, especially if we count his ABA accolades. Thoughts?

[TheBigVeto]

Bran is 2nd best SF. No shame in that.

[G0ATbe]

Larrys the greatest and then Dr J.

Durants coming for that #1 spot in the coming years.

[LeFraud James]

Larry Legend
Dr J
LeFraud

[Trollsmasher]

Bird

[ThePhantomCreep]

Bird

Fantasyland shit right here.

[oarabbus]

Bird, but LeBron clear #2. He smokes Dr J

[NZStreetBaller]

how many FMVP does bird have??

[Harison]

Bird is clear numero uno, but 2nd place is not so clear. When all is said and done Lebron should be 2nd (maybe).

[raprap]

Larry Legend.

[nzahir]

how many FMVP does bird have??
2....like bron.
I still got bird over lebron as a lebron fan, but maybe b/c I appreciate players more than just by how many rings they win.

And to answer this stupid question; its bron at #2 and its really not even close. Erving didnt win a fmvp, Moses did b/c he was their best player.
Lebron can eventually pass bird and I wouldnt doubt it. Though Bird on offense though may have been the best complete package; not as athletic as bron, mj, or kobe but his 3pt shot was the best and his mid range was better than mj from start of career to end, better ft shooter, could finish at rim but not as well as those 3, could post but still not as well as those 3, 2nd best playmaker after bron. But arguably most complete on offense. Defense is another story, but bird wasnt bad. But bird in todays era wouldnt be as quick for many of these forwards

[FPJ]

Every SF who hasn't lost 4 finals is better than Lebron.

[TAZORAC]

2/6 pretty much cemented Larry Legend as the best SF ever to me. For me #2 pretty much comes down to Bran and Dr. J. I think it's really close but I give a slight edge to Dr. J, especially if we count his ABA accolades. Thoughts?

Larry Bird wouldn't even get playing time in todays game. Larry Bird isn't even better then Paul Pierce.

And in reality none of you would put Larry Bird on your team before Lebron James if you had to put together a team to play a game and your LIFE depend on it.And I know it.

[Mr Clutch Melo]

2/6 or not Lebron> Bird at anything with exception of clutchness

[aj1987]

Extremely close and wouldn't go wrong with either in the 1 & 2 spots. People living in the moment and not realizing that Bird basically played on some of the most stacked teams of all time.

4 MVPS, 2 Rings, 2 FMVP's vs 3 MVP's, 3 Rings, 2 FMVP's.

[masonanddixon]

Rick Barry in his prime was absolutely superior to lebron

[aj1987]

Rick Barry in his prime was absolutely superior to lebron
So were Pistol, Nash, West, McHale, Hondo, Pettit, Mikan, and Stockton. :cheers:

[masonanddixon]

So were Pistol, Nash, West, McHale, Hondo, Pettit, Mikan, and Stockton. :cheers:

Yes but none of them were SFs

[nzahir]

Larry Bird wouldn't even get playing time in todays game. Larry Bird isn't even better then Paul Pierce.

And in reality none of you would put Larry Bird on your team before Lebron James if you had to put together a team to play a game and your LIFE depend on it.And I know it.
Comon man stop it. Larry is a top 5 player of all time. He would for sure play in todays era b/c he could play the 3 or the 4 and teams would love him as a stretch 4 who could also pass and double, but still post

[nzahir]

Rick Barry in his prime was absolutely superior to lebron
You mean the guy who shot freethrows like how my grandma would shoot them?

[Knicks101]

We gonna act like 2/6 doesn't reduce?

[aj1987]

Yes but none of them were SFs
Talking about players in general.

[masonanddixon]

You mean the guy who shot freethrows like how my grandma would shoot them?

yeah and shot over 90%, unlike the fraud who jumps ship and piggybacks off superstars so he doesn't have to choke away every 4th quarter.

[KelticForce1349]

2/6 or not Lebron> Bird at anything with exception of clutchness


Really? I am not one of the Lebron bashers but give me a break man. Lebron is better at shooting from mid-range? No way! Lebron better at free throws and 3 point shots? No. I really want to believe you didn't think this through before posting.

I think Lebron is amazing and I have always admired his unselfishness even when others were blasting him as being too scared to take certain shots. As terrific as Lebron is with passing, I often think Bird is the best passer I have seen. Maybe he isn't the best, but Larry's passing was ridiculously good.

I would at least consider thier leadership styles and ability too. I won't sit here and say Larry beats lebron in this category, but there is room for a valid discussion to be had. The point I am making is that Lebron isn't automatically better than Bird at everything.

This isn't about hoisting Bird up to be better than reality because he is white. This isn't about crapping on Lebron just because so many people choose to do that.

[colts19]

As in all discussions on who is the best you tend to go with the most recent. I will say this, I will take Larry Bird at his best over any small forward or Power forward, everyday all day.

[kennethgriffin]

Extremely close and wouldn't go wrong with either in the 1 & 2 spots. People living in the moment and not realizing that Bird basically played on some of the most stacked teams of all time.

4 ESPNS, 1.5 Rings, 0.5 FMVP's vs 3 MVP's, 3 Rings, 2 FMVP's.


fixed

[ImKobe]

Bird
Erving
Pippen
KD
Pierce

I'd say 1-3 are pretty interchangeable, I put KD there because he'll have a top 3 career at his position, he already the best scoring SF of all-time.

[Rocketswin2013]

Greatest? Toss-up between LeBron and Bird.

[GIF REACTION]

This is trolling HARD

Lebron is clearly the superior player

He surpassed Bird in 2013

[SHAQisGOAT]

As in all discussions on who is the best you tend to go with the most recent. I will say this, I will take Larry Bird at his best over any small forward or Power forward, everyday all day.

^This

Larry Bird had the best peak out of any forward...
A top5 peak along with Shaq, MJ, Kareem and Wilt.


2nd greatest SF is LeBron... In terms of peak and overall career.

In terms of career, considering everything (prime as an overall player, impact, competition, teammates, longevity, individual and collective accolades, stats...):

1. Bird
2. Bron
3. Dr J
4. Hondo
5. Baylor
6. Barry
7. Pippen

[Rocketswin2013]

This is trolling HARD

Lebron is clearly the superior player

He surpassed Bird in 2013
Accolades.


I honestly don't know for sure what the GOAT criteria is. I think it's a combination of everything. Bird really only has an edge in accolades. And even then it's a single ring. LeBron James is clearly superior in both regular and playoff season.

[Champ]

Bird had a more polished, complete game and the better peak. At his height, from '83 to 88, his numbers were 27/10/7 while averaging 50/40/90 percentages over the same five year span. Incredible. Combine those numbers with three straight MVPs and two FMVPs during the league's golden era, along with unmatched clutchness, leadership, toughness, and intangibles, and you have one of the top three all-around peaks in NBA history.

That said, comparing raw stats and players across different eras is always dubious. LeBron would have had to change his game to be successful in the 80s and Bird would've had to do the same today.

And it's only a matter of time before LeBron's career numbers begin to dwarf Bird's (he's only 30 and has already played more games and has had more healthy seasons).

Where you rank them comes down to what you value more - better career totals or the better player.

[G0ATbe]

This is trolling HARD

Lebron is clearly the superior player

He surpassed Bird in 2013
He wouldn't be 1 ray away from 0.5/6 if that was the case.

[Champ]

Larry Bird wouldn't even get playing time in todays game. Larry Bird isn't even better then Paul Pierce.

:oldlol:

Thanks for the laugh, junior.

[Kingwillball]

Bird definitely #2..

[jayfan]

Larry Bird wouldn't even get playing time in todays game. Larry Bird isn't even better then Paul Pierce.

And in reality none of you would put Larry Bird on your team before Lebron James if you had to put together a team to play a game and your LIFE depend on it.And I know it.

I would. Without hesitation.

If your life depended on one game, and you picked Lebron ahead of Bird, you'd be a complete moron.


.

[Teanett]

Bird
Lebron
Pippen
Dr J

[Nastradamus]

Bird

[Cold soul]

Bird
Lebron
Dr J

[FKAri]

Bird

[IncarceratedBob]

lebron shits on larry, what an idiotic thread

[Kingwillball]

Lebron has a better argument for #2 player of all time than being #2 behind bird... Lebron will only pull away from here on out with probably another 3-4 championship appearances and another 2-3 rings.

[KungFuJoe]

It's funny seeing who picks Lebron over Bird. Shitty poster after shitty poster.

Like watching a bunch of retards lining up to board the short bus.

[Kvnzhangyay]

It's funny seeing who picks Lebron over Bird. Shitty poster after shitty poster.

Like watching a bunch of retards lining up to board the short bus.

It's actually true though

lebron
bird
dr j

[KungFuJoe]

It's actually true though

lebron
bird
dr j

Don't forget your helmet.

[riseagainst]

uhh. Any objective person with a brain knows that lebron has surpassed Larry Bird in the all time list very recently. As an individual player, he has surpassed Bird a few years ago. This isnt an insult Bird because he is one of the greatest to ever do it. But lebron is just incredible.

[TheBigVeto]

Larry Bird wouldn't even get playing time in todays game. Larry Bird isn't even better then Paul Pierce.

And in reality none of you would put Larry Bird on your team before Lebron James if you had to put together a team to play a game and your LIFE depend on it.And I know it.

Racist alert.

[buddha]

Larry Bird wouldn't even get playing time in todays game. Larry Bird isn't even better then Paul Pierce.

And in reality none of you would put Larry Bird on your team before Lebron James if you had to put together a team to play a game and your LIFE depend on it.And I know it.

lmao, if Kyle Singler can start and get playing time, Larry Bird can still be a superstar.

[nou1990]

Larry Bird wouldn't even get playing time in todays game. Larry Bird isn't even better then Paul Pierce.

And in reality none of you would put Larry Bird on your team before Lebron James if you had to put together a team to play a game and your LIFE depend on it.And I know it.

:bowdown:

[Nowitness]

Larry Bird.

Bron third with Mully taking the top spot.

[outbreak]

Larry Bird wouldn't even get playing time in todays game. Larry Bird isn't even better then Paul Pierce.

And in reality none of you would put Larry Bird on your team before Lebron James if you had to put together a team to play a game and your LIFE depend on it.And I know it.

It's hard to rate a player from a different era where the style of the game was totally different. Put LBJ in some of the previous NBA eras and he'd struggle with the physicality and lack of calls. Different players suit different eras but you cant' hold that against them.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Regarding Bird vs LeBron...

Bird was a better shooter from pretty much everywhere, had better footwork, better post-game, better use of both hands from close-range, was a better rebounder, better pure-passer, better team and post defender; had better intangibles such as clutchness, leadership, toughness...
Just has the edge as an overall player, considering both at their best.

With that "out of the way", people really picking LeBron over Bird? :confusedshrug:
Tbh, imo that's just being too much of a stan or not knowing what you're talking about, as in never having seen much from prime Bird at all, and/or not understanding much about the game of basketball; falling too much in love with some stats or whatever.

Seriously you watch LeBron play, and as great as he is...
-You'll see him running up the clock then dishing to a shooter at the last moment.
-You'll see him driving his way in or working in the post and if the shot isn't really there he just throws the ball out, maybe he'll get an assist, sometimes he won't, if there's time he just does it all over again; very ugly stuff that won't lead to much many times.
-You'll see stuff like him ****ing up on defense then yelling at teammates when it wasn't their fault.
-He'll wave off defensive assignements for rebounds plenty of times, or just grab them over teammates.
-His off-ball play is nonexistent still, shooting and defense have been declining.
-Many times he's weak minded and won't leave up to the challenge, or won't "answer" when trash-talked and whatnot.
-His 1on1 play is not very effective or pretty to see. Applies to clutch situations too.
...
Then you watch Bird play and you'll see something VERY DIFFERENT, certainly with higher impact towards winning.

Larry Bird played within the flow of the game, making teammates much better while letting them play up to their strengths, tried to make it easy for them and for the team in detriment of everything else.
He didn't play for stats at all, would make decisions for the sake of the collective not for his personal status.
Was unselfish but at the same time a great leader, extremely tough minded and one of the best in clutch knowing when to take over.
Dude was a superstar out there hustling like your average glue-guy.
Had a sick, very quick and effective 1on1 game without much hesitations. He would kill you most times, and if help came he just made a beautiful, smart pass, assist or hockey assist.
Brilliant all-around versatile game, could work with any type of player, adjust to any strategy.
When somebody messed with him on the court, he'd just play even better.
In his prime, he was everywhere on the court, making it look easy, extremely impactful, did what was necessary naturally.

Ofc that people love to bring up names... Yet again:
-Celtics were a franchise falling apart and had the 2nd worst record in the league just before Bird got there... Then with him, new coach and the same core roster they improve by 32W's, best record and make the ECF.
-As a sophomore, with Cowens gone and the only main addition in Robert Parish (already 27 not viewed as much), Larry leads them all the way to the title, and frankly should've been named FMVP - would've in this era.
-'84 Playoffs, most C's were playing WELL BELOW their standars while Bird wrecked shit up, leading the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT% :bowdown: Nobody can **** with that and he led them all the way to the title against GOAT-level competition.
-In '87 he still carried an aging team riddled with injuries (included himself) to the Finals, going clutch af through 2 extremely gruelsome series that went to 7games, against some terrific teams, facing one of the best teams ever that had a relatively easy path to the Finals.
-When Bird was out injured in '89, they dropped by 15W's and were swept in the 1st-round, and Larry was even "replaced" by Reggie Lewis and wasn't at his very best before... Even when he returned as a total shell, made them considerably better.
...
Bird "made" most names people love to talk about now. Crazy impact from the get-go, leader and center-piece for a dynasty in the most stacked era. They were shitty before him, terrific with him leading the way, much worse with him out...

Don't also forget that LeBron joined 2 already established superstars in the league, 1 a top3/5 player, who had a tremendous Finals in '11... Couldn't win more than 2 before he bolted again. Played in one of the weakest Conferences, and had role-players outplaying him in Finals series.
Won't even extend myself more on that subject.

Look at Bird's ridiculous prime numbers and play, at what he accomplished in an era with top stars such as Magic, Kareem, Jordan, Moses, Julius, Isiah, Hakeem, Barkley, Nique, King, Ewing, Malone, Moncrief, Gervin... With teams such as the Showtime Lakers, Bad Boys Pistons, Moses/Erving's 76ers, 80's Bucks, Twin-Towers Rockets, Nique's Hawks...
Most likely the GOAT era and Conference, plus best time for SF's (Bird's position at his peak).
LeBron cannot mess with that ^ Not even in a million years :oldlol:

Bron in Larry's "situation" wouldn't have won as much (rings and MVP's)... Bird in James' shoes would've done more/better.

And for the trolls saying that Bird wouldn't be able to play in this era: Y'all don't got anything else? That shit's extremely played out already :rolleyes:
Larry would be even "better" in this era, more hyped too...

Larry went h2h against forwards such as Dr J, Wilkins, King, Dantley, English, Worthy, Wilkes, Marques Johnson, Aguirre...
Adding to those names he was also guarded throughout his career by dudes like Cooper, Bobby Jones, Rodman, Nance, Pippen, McCray, Pressey, Roundfield, X-Man, Moncrief, Buck Williams, Drexler, Kersey, Jordan, Cummings, Ho Grant, Kenny Walker, Kersey, Woolridge, Chambers... Some great (different types of) athletes, some great defenders or a combination of both.
Please look at that list, please find out about some of those players...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msEmcemLR7M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksp82aw-jqg

--> LeBron, on average/overall, didn't face competition as good at the forward position nowadays, LeBron wasn't guarded by better defenders or even more athletic lmfao; especially when you factor the Playoffs more than anything else.

Plus, Bird was playing in a league with much tougher rules, considerably less superstar treatment, much more physicality, with better, bigger, "real" bigmen in the paint.


Bottom line, if you want your team to win, you pick prime Bird over prime LeBron.
And with that I'm not even saying you can't win with James, he's one of the very best players ever, top10 peak too, proven winner, tremendous talent... but not better than Larry.

Seriously, that whole discussion should be deaded by now.

G'ahead, refute any of that, say that that's too big or you ain't reading and such :rolleyes: Just the facts, fellas, didn't even tke much to type (most stuff I have already posted countless times)...

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Bird. LeBron is 3rd.

Dr. J.: 3x champion, 4x MVP, 2x POMVP > 3x champion, 3x MVP, 2x FMVP and 2x champion, 4x MVP, 2x FMVP.

[aj1987]

Just the facts, fellas...
Saying that he's a better passer, leader, defender, and tougher is just your opinion.

[Kobe_6/8]

Bird. This post will be true after LeBron retires.

[Poochymama]

Bron is way better at getting to the rim and way better at finishing around the rim, those are his biggest advantages over Bird. He's also a better ballhandler and a better drive and kick player.

Bird is a better shooter from most places on the court, better post player, better passer and rebounder. He's also a way better off ball player than Bron and easier to fit into an offense.

Both guys were mediocre on ball defenders and great team defenders. Gotta give Lebron the slight edge on defense since he had a few years (2009-2013) where his team defense was almost Jordan/Pippen esque.

I don't really believe all the clutch stuff.

Leadership is hard to judge, but both guys seem to be great leaders from what I've seen of Bron and the footage I've seen of Bird as well as what his teammates say about him. Bird probably gets a really slight edge just because he seems slightly more competitive, and I know from personal experience that individual competitiveness breeds team competitiveness.

Overall they're super close and I could make arguments for myself for either of them in the 4-7 range all time. My guess is Bron will pass Bird on longevity here in the next few years and end up somewhere in the 3-6 range.

[aj1987]

Also, some of you are brining up '83-'88, but are are forgetting '09-'13 LeBron.

4x MVP
2x NBA Champ
2x FMVP
5x All-NBA First Team
5x All-Defensive First Team

Can we stop pretending that Bird is a significantly better player? They're extremely close.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

People living in the moment and not realizing that Bird basically played on some of the most stacked teams of all time.

Context. What was Bird's level of competition during that time? The Lakers were even more stacked or at least just as stacked with multiple top 5/10 players of all time including the unarguable GOAT PG in his prime and someone usually placed right below Jordan all-time as well as a bunch of other great players and HOF'ers. That Lakers team made it to the vast majority of the finals during that time as well. You also have to look at conference. The East was a bloodbath during that time and Bird had to fight his way through the Dr. J./Moses 76'ers, Bad Boy Pistons, etc. The West was a lot weaker and was virtually all but a cakewalk to the finals every year. Now look at LeBron's career. Ironically, LeBron is more comparable to Magic in more ways than not. Historically weak conference with historically stacked teams every year. Pretty big difference when you allow for context and not just look at stats in a vacuum.

[Harison]

Context. What was Bird's level of competition during that time? The Lakers were even more stacked or at least just as stacked with multiple top 5/10 players of all time including the unarguable GOAT PG in his prime and someone usually placed right below Jordan all-time as well as a bunch of other great players and HOF'ers. That Lakers team made it to the vast majority of the finals during that time as well. You also have to look at conference. The East was a bloodbath during that time and Bird had to fight his way through the Dr. J./Moses 76'ers, Bad Boy Pistons, etc. The West was a lot weaker and was virtually all but a cakewalk to the finals every year. Now look at LeBron's career. Ironically, LeBron is more comparable to Magic in more ways than not. Historically weak conference with historically stacked teams every year. Pretty big difference when you allow for context and not just look at stats in a vacuum.
Good post. Mentioning Bird's stacked team and ignoring as much or even more stacked opponents is disingenuous at best.

If Bird played today, his accolades would look even better than in the Golden age. Perennial MVP, probably more rings too.