dammit, another mass shooting

[KevinNYC]

checked twitter before bed.

[QUOTE]Eight people were shot and suffered serious injuries inside one of Charleston

[Velocirap31]

Damn, 9 confirmed dead? RIP

[ace23]

Thought this was going to be a joke thread from the title lol

[KevinNYC]

A bomb threat was also called into a Marriott Hotel.

[STATUTORY]

A bomb threat was also called into a Marriott Hotel.
seems synchronized, is it just one person at large?

[L.Kizzle]

sickos man.

[KevinNYC]

seems synchronized, is it just one person at large?
The hotel is apparently where cops first asked churchgoers to move.


Hillary Clinton campaigned in Charleston today. At first I thought she might be staying there.

[Jameerthefear]

Yo what the ****

[Fudge]

RIP to my fallen brothers and sisters.

**** white people.

[KevinNYC]

RIP to my fallen brothers and sisters.

**** white people.
Don't be a dick.

[KevinNYC]

They have not confirmed the number of dead yet. Just that some died. It might be 9 shot total, but not 9 dead.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Southerners with guns in a Red State.

[HitandRun Reggie]

Time to revise the 2ND AMENDMENT.


How is revising the 2nd Amendment going to do anything? :oldlol:

Isn't it already illegal to kill people?

Wait a minute. Are you even American?

[iamgine]

I hope they don't find the gunman and he shot up another place nearby.

We can have an exciting serial killer story, been a long time haven't had one of those.

[HitandRun Reggie]

I hope they don't find the gunman and he shot up another place nearby.

We can have an exciting serial killer story, been a long time haven't had one of those.

:biggums:

This guy is as good as dead. If the cops don't kill him first, or he kills himself, the residents will.

[LakersDaBEst]

RIP :cry:

[Raymone]

They have not confirmed the number of dead yet. Just that some died. It might be 9 shot total, but not 9 dead.

Yes, they have. 8 died at the scene, 1 died in the hospital. All black. Historic African-American church. Shooter is a white male with blonde hair in his early twenties. FBI is already on scene considering this a hate crime.

This will be ugly.

[Le Shaqtus]

Yes, they have. 8 died at the scene, 1 died in the hospital. All black. Historic African-American church. Shooter is a white male with blonde hair in his early twenties. FBI is already on scene considering this a hate crime.

This will be ugly.


I expect this to be all over my newsfeed tomorrow..

[TylerOO]

Yes, they have. 8 died at the scene, 1 died in the hospital. All black. Historic African-American church. Shooter is a white male with blonde hair in his early twenties. FBI is already on scene considering this a hate crime.

This will be ugly.

Very ugly.

[imdaman99]

Sad events. May the victims RIP and prayers go out to their families.

[LEFT4DEAD]

So, is he a terrorist??? :rolleyes:

[tomtucker]

So, is he a terrorist??? :rolleyes:

Shooter is a white male with blonde hair.........so the answer is no.......:oldlol:

[LEFT4DEAD]

Shooter is a white male with blonde hair.........so the answer is no.......:oldlol:
lol

[ace23]

lol
Muhammad was a pedophile

[LEFT4DEAD]

Muhammad was a pedophile
:roll:

[Raymone]

So, is he a terrorist??? :rolleyes:

Probably. Just not one motivated by islam like most terrorists today are.

[tomtucker]

Muhammad was a pedophile
http://metrobloggen.se/diana/files/2015/01/10930887_901314966579726_4942236787006754733_n.jpg

[LEFT4DEAD]

Probably. Just not one motivated by islam like most terrorists today are.
Lol probably. Its unbelievable how brainwashed yall Americans are by your own media.
A TERRORIST IS A PERSON WHO TERRORIZES AND FRIGHTENS OTHERS, and you will never heard media calling guys like this one who does massiv killing but is not a muslim, a terrorist. How laughable is that.

[HitandRun Reggie]

So, is he a terrorist??? :rolleyes:

He is definitely a terrorist and you can bet with 100% certainty that if he is found to belong to any extremist group like a radical Christian organization, neo-Nazi clan, or anti-government militia, that the FBI and the media is going to be all up in that group's ass for years.

[HitandRun Reggie]

I hope they don't find the gunman and he shot up another place nearby.

We can have an exciting serial killer story, been a long time haven't had one of those.

Why'd you delete your post? Forget to switch to your alt?

[iamgine]

Why'd you delete your post? Forget to switch to your alt?
I didn't delete my post :biggums:

[NumberSix]

He is definitely a terrorist and you can bet with 100% certainty that if he is found to belong to any extremist group like a radical Christian organization, neo-Nazi clan, or anti-government militia, that the FBI and the media is going to be all up in that group's ass for years.
Why would he shoot up a church? :wtf:

My guess is he's some kind of white separatist. In that case, then yes, he is a terrorist.

[Bless Mathews]

RIP to my fallen brothers and sisters.

**** white people.

Word life cuz.

[NumberSix]

Lol probably. Its unbelievable how brainwashed yall Americans are by your own media.
A TERRORIST IS A PERSON WHO TERRORIZES AND FRIGHTENS OTHERS, and you will never heard media calling guys like this one who does massiv killing but is not a muslim, a terrorist. How laughable is that.
A mass killing in itself is not terrorism. It's the motivation that makes it terrorism. Generally, trying to use the threat of violence to make people do what you want. For example, killing cartoonists because you want to terrorize people into not making cartoons because they're afraid of violent retaliation.

[rufuspaul]

One of the victims was the pastor of the church and also a state senator. Such a senseless act.

The photo of the shooter shows him wearing a long sleeve sweatshirt layered over a t-shirt. I don't know if any of you have ever been to Charleston in the summer but it is hot as fck down here right now.

[Dresta]

Yes, they have. 8 died at the scene, 1 died in the hospital. All black. Historic African-American church. Shooter is a white male with blonde hair in his early twenties. FBI is already on scene considering this a hate crime.

This will be ugly.
Guy kills 9 people.

FBI's main concern is whether or not it was a hate crime.

:applause:

Keep up the good work Mr. Law Officers. It's not like the man went and shot up a bunch of people for going to church or anything. Pointless labels are pointless.

[KevinNYC]

Yes, they have. 8 died at the scene, 1 died in the hospital.
Yes, by the time you posted they have confirmed the number dead, but not at the time of my post. They held a press conference later.

[Alamо]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/bd/da/5b/bdda5b7a60a44f8df7472b5e2c19fe16.jpg

[Velocirap31]

More than 9 black people were killed yesterday by other black people as well as every single day before that.

[HomieWeMajor]

R.I.P to my brothers and sisters who have lost their lives in the shooting.

[Heilige]

[QUOTE]A survivor told Johnson that the shooter reloaded five different times and that her son was trying to

[ALBballer]

Guy kills 9 people.

FBI's main concern is whether or not it was a hate crime.

:applause:

Keep up the good work Mr. Law Officers. It's not like the man went and shot up a bunch of people for going to church or anything. Pointless labels are pointless.

Yep pretty much.

If the victims were white then the media would be calling him a lunatic, deranged and so forth. If the victims were muslim then the narrative would change to Islamophobia. Since the victims are black the media plays the race angle instead of while downplaying the obvious that a person has to be lunatic to go in a church and kill 9 innocent people.

Labeling this a hate crime is pointless mental-m@sturbation.

[BurningHammer]

The shooter has been identified.

http://starcasm.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Dylann-Roof-Charleston-Shooter-Feature-490x370.jpg

[Jameerthefear]

Yep pretty much.

If the victims were white then the media would be calling him a lunatic, deranged and so forth. If the victims were muslim then the narrative would change to Islamophobia. Since the victims are black the media plays the race angle instead of while downplaying the obvious that a person has to be lunatic to go in a church and kill 9 innocent people.

Labeling this a hate crime is pointless mental-m@sturbation.
it was a hate crime doe

[Lebowsky]

The shooter has been identified.

http://starcasm.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Dylann-Roof-Charleston-Shooter-Feature-490x370.jpg

Looks like a nice guy.

[Lebron23]

Looks like a nice guy.


Looks like a Simon.

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

[BlazerRed]

Looks like a Simon.

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:
:lol

[nathanjizzle]

the shooter has a pretty cynical looking hair cut.

[L.Kizzle]

Yep pretty much.

If the victims were white then the media would be calling him a lunatic, deranged and swasnth. If the victims were muslim then the narrative would change to Islamophobia. Since the victims are black the media plays the race angle instead of while downplaying the obvious that a person has to be lunatic to go in a church and kill 9 innocent people.

Labeling this a hate crime is pointless mental-m@sturbation.
It's a hate crime. He picked a black historic church. He would have chosen the local white church in his neighborhood if he wasn't targeting blacks.

[Stempel, HERB]

It's a hate crime. He picked a black historic church. He would have chosen the local white church in his neighborhood if he wasn't targeting blacks.

It's not a hate crime until Don Lemon is on the scene interviewing blk people. Sorry. Those are the rules of the game.

[NumberSix]

It's a hate crime. He picked a black historic church. He would have chosen the local white church in his neighborhood if he wasn't targeting blacks.
Why does it have to be any church? Are you suggesting he was targeting Christians?

It appears as though he is some kind of white separatist. If that's the case,mots simple. He is by definition a terrorist. Maybe even a "thug".

[Dresta]

It's a hate crime. He picked a black historic church. He would have chosen the local white church in his neighborhood if he wasn't targeting blacks.
So... a hate crime against blacks or christians, or both perhaps?

I think "lunatic shoots up church" is about as far as you need to go with this one. Anyone who goes to a church to kill blacks because they be 'raping our women' (while likely being a virgin), is not right in the head. If i wanted to catch some potential rapists of white women through the indiscriminate murder of blacks, then a close-knit community church is the last place i'd choose.
He looks pretty mental as well; bet he's smoked weed or taken anti-depressants in the past (like nearly all mass shooters) - i'm going to start calling these things Cannabis crime, or SSRI shooters - better and likely more accurate label than 'hate crime.'

Tell me, of what importance exactly is calling this a 'hate crime?' - well, except being incredibly inflammatory in a country with already far too much racial tension and division, of course. If the perp lives, he'll be executed or jailed for life, regardless of whatever worthless rhetorical label you want to give it

[STATUTORY]

Why does it have to be any church? Are you suggesting he was targeting Christians?

It appears as though he is some kind of white separatist. If that's the case,mots simple. He is by definition a terrorist. Maybe even a "thug".
is there a distinction between white separatist and white supremacist?

[Jameerthefear]

So... a hate crime against blacks or christians, or both perhaps?

I think "lunatic shoots up church" is about as far as you need to go with this one. Anyone who goes to a church to kill blacks because they be 'raping our women' (while likely being a virgin), is not right in the head. If i wanted to catch some potential rapists of white women through the indiscriminate murder of blacks, then a close-knit community church is the last place i'd choose.
He looks pretty mental as well; bet he's smoked weed or taken anti-depressants in the past (like nearly all mass shooters) - i'm going to start calling these things Cannabis crime, or SSRI shooters - better and likely more accurate label than 'hate crime.'

Tell me, of what importance exactly is calling this a 'hate crime?' - well, except being incredibly inflammatory in a country with already far too much racial tension and division, of course. If the perp lives, he'll be executed or jailed for life, regardless of whatever worthless rhetorical label you want to give it
wow u post a lot of dumb stuff on this forum

[NumberSix]

is there a distinction between white separatist and white supremacist?
Well, a supremacist is someone who thinks some people are inherently better than others. That doesn't necessarily include some kind of political goal.

A separatist however does have a political goal. They want a policy of segregation. If this guy is using terror to push for segregation, that is the epitome of terrorism.

[Trollsmasher]

9-0 KD

white man stays winning

is the dude really wearing a jacket with Rhodesian flag?:roll:

[Foster5k]

Just another example of senseless acts of violence. These people who commit these crimes against humanity are the very definition of evil. This guy is just another Hitler. A monster. A coward. A murderer. A psychopath. He knew these people would be unarmed and unable to defend themselves.

We all must remain diligent and show courage in the face of evil and against acts of this kind. Whatever your race or creed, all men and women should have the right to live happily and freely without threats and acts of this nature.

Whoever this guy is and wherever this guy hides, justice will ultimately be served. Whoever chooses to act in such a manner, will face the heaviest of prices.

[KingBeasley08]

Captured. Put the nikka in general population for the rest of his life. Girly looking dude who killed Black people. How long do ya'll think he lasts in there :lol

[longtime lurker]

Guy kills 9 people.

FBI's main concern is whether or not it was a hate crime.

:applause:

Keep up the good work Mr. Law Officers. It's not like the man went and shot up a bunch of people for going to church or anything. Pointless labels are pointless.

People like you are fvcking idiots. 9 people die and your main concern is whether or not its a hate crime.



Yep pretty much.

If the victims were white then the media would be calling him a lunatic, deranged and swasnth. If the victims were muslim then the narrative would change to Islamophobia. Since the victims are black the media plays the race angle instead of while downplaying the obvious that a person has to be lunatic to go in a church and kill 9 innocent people.

Labeling this a hate crime is pointless mental-m@sturbation.

Here's another one. Of course there's race angle you moron he targeted them because they're wait for it.................














black

[KevinNYC]

They arrested him.

[rufuspaul]

Whoever this guy is and wherever this guy hides, justice will ultimately be served. Whoever chooses to act in such a manner, will face the heaviest of prices.


Unless they commit the crime in Norway.

[oh the horror]

They arrested him.



Surprised they took this kid alive.


Does he go for the insanity route though?

[KevinNYC]

A man who identified himself as Roof's uncle said he had recently been given a .45-caliber handgun as a birthday present by his father and that the 21-year-old had seemed adrift.:facepalm

[dazzer87]

Looks like a Simon.

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:
was going to post this......Dead Ringer....Dude hate blacks cause they were picking on him........:roll: :roll: :roll:

[longtime lurker]

Surprised they took this kid alive.


Does he go for the insanity route though?

Pretty sure they'll put this guy under the jail. However they should interrogate the shit out of him to see if he belongs to a larger group.

[KevinNYC]

Surprised they took this kid alive.


Does he go for the insanity route though?
Even though people say things like he's a lunatic or he was deranged, the legal standard for insanity is pretty high.

He went to a specific church he specifically asked the pastor of that church who is also a local politician. He escaped and avoided police. All these indicate he was in charge of his senses and does not meet the legal definition necessary for an insanity defense. He may also be the one who called in the bomb threat.

His lawyer may try for that, but that would mainly be this is going to be tough case win.

[oh the horror]

Even though people say things like he's a lunatic or he was deranged, the legal standard for insanity is pretty high.

He went to a specific church he specifically asked the pastor of that church who is also a local politician. He escaped and avoided police. All these indicate he was in charge of his senses and does not meet the legal definition necessary for an insanity defense. He may also be the one who called in the bomb threat.

His lawyer may try for that, but that would mainly be this is going to be tough case win.


Yeah. Pretty calculating if you ask me

[rufuspaul]

:facepalm

That's really shocking. In South Carolina a kid usually gets his first .45 at age 6.


Edit: they caught him in Shelby. That's 40 miles from me. :eek:

[Lebron23]

was going to post this......Dead Ringer....Dude hate blacks cause they were picking on him........:roll: :roll: :roll:


I can see an uncanny resemblance. These type of guys are very dangerous in a community.

[Patrick Chewing]

Does he go for the insanity route though?


He looks crazy as hell.


If I had a kid that looked as crazy as that, I'd put a pillow over his head while he slept.

[NumberSix]

What's the stand on the death penalty in south carolina? Does anyone know if they are for it or against it?
They have it.

[Jameerthefear]

let ME go at his ass. i would f*ck that n*gga up

[rufuspaul]

They have it.


Yeah they kill people on the reg. Not like Texas but close.

[Dresta]

People like you are fvcking idiots. 9 people die and your main concern is whether or not its a hate crime.


Where are you getting that from you thick ****? That's exactly what i said in respect to the FBI and media automatically going for the 'hate' crime angle. I already said 'some lunatic massacres people in a church and idiots like you immediately look for whatever political leverage they can get...to moralise over the issue, and it's sick.' And then you try to shame others for doing exactly what you did :hammerhead: - you're a joke dude.

My main concern is not sparking needless cycles of perceived victimisation based violence (and this attack appears to be of that kind of delusional and 'persecuted' type of person); that is of no benefit to anyone, and only creates endless divisions. Your concern seems to be scoring political points for the social 'group' you think you belong to, taking sides, blaming something other than the perpetrator ('racist culture' or some such thing) - basically, exacerbating all the divisions you perpetually whinge about, the cycles of violence (i mean, dude, have you not even seen American History X; it's like, come on!).

[~primetime~]

apparently he has stated that he was at the church to 'kill black people'

so yeah, it is a hate crime

[~primetime~]

I mean really this guy needs to be praying for the death penalty...can you imagine him in general population?

How did he not have plans to kill himself? what a nut bag

[NBAplayoffs2001]

I mean really this guy needs to be praying for the death penalty...can you imagine him in general population?

How did he not have plans to kill himself? what a nut bag

I'm sure he would get protective custody given the circumstances.

[Lebron23]

let ME go at his ass. i would f*ck that n*gga up


http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2015/06/18/everything-known-about-charleston-church-shooting-suspect-dylann-roof/jcr:content/image.crop.800.500.jpg/1434643508970.cached.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHyYMkWXAAMmCuJ.png

[Fudge]

Are whites always this psychotic?

[ALBballer]

Here's another one. Of course there's race angle you moron he targeted them because they're wait for it.................

black

What effect will the hate crime accusation have in this case? The guy will face the death penalty and he will be found guilty. There's not much more the law enforcement can do by labeling this as a hate crime. The hate crime accusation will not add any years to the sentence (ok it might if he isn't sentenced to death but what would 150 years of prison compared to 200 really do in the grand scheme of things) nor will they be able to kill him multiple times on death row.

The guy went to a church and killed 9 people and he knew these people wouldn't be able to defend themselves. The gruesome act of this crime is so great that the fact he hated black people is almost an afterthought. Any person that is willing to commit such an act harbors hate.

I could understand the hate crime accusation if it could add to the sentencing or punish the defendant further. But in this situation the hate crime angle is almost overshadowing the actual crime itself and causing unnecessary racial tension also some groups will use this act to further their own interests.

[rufuspaul]

http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2015/06/18/everything-known-about-charleston-church-shooting-suspect-dylann-roof/jcr:content/image.crop.800.500.jpg/1434643508970.cached.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHyYMkWXAAMmCuJ.png


Uncanny

[rezznor]

http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2015/06/18/everything-known-about-charleston-church-shooting-suspect-dylann-roof/jcr:content/image.crop.800.500.jpg/1434643508970.cached.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHyYMkWXAAMmCuJ.png

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/StrikSkillz/nastywin-1.jpg

I knew Shogun Ramel would snap one of these days

[~primetime~]

Okay, no one can blame anyone for looking into 'why' someone would do this...it was a hate crime and will be remembered as such, you should stop with any hopes that fact will be ignored and swept under the rug.

Intelligent blacks understand this was a lone nut bag and won't use it to 'hate whites'

[rezznor]

he will probably get protection from the aryan gangs. still won't last long though, he's gonna be caught alone sooner or later.

[BlakFrankWhite]

5'9" buck twenty?

I hope this chump gets assraped and facefcked every single day of his prison life sentence. No death penalty though, just assfcked til he has two assholes and facefcked til he has no teeth anymore. THen finally, have inmates beat him to death by their own hands.

Couldn't have said it any better...lol

[daily]

he will probably get protection from the aryan gangs. still won't last long though, he's gonna be caught alone sooner or later.

Aryan Brotherhood will treat him like a ****ing hero but he'll never see genpop if they go for the death penalty.

[Lakers Legend#32]

His father got him a gun for his 21st birthday.
F#ck The South.

[Jameerthefear]

His father got him a gun for his 21st birthday.
F#ck The South.
people also own guns in the north too friend

[ALBballer]

Okay, no one can blame anyone for looking into 'why' someone would do this...it was a hate crime and will be remembered as such, you should stop with any hopes that fact will be ignored and swept under the rug.

Intelligent blacks understand this was a lone nut bag and won't use it to 'hate whites'

Anyone with a brain can see this is a lone nut bag but all you have to do is tune into CNN and you can see that is not the case. The narrative is this is a greater racial issue.

[~primetime~]

Anyone with a brain can see this is a lone nut bag but all you have to do is tune into CNN and you can see that is not the case. The narrative is this is a greater racial issue.
I don't think this will cause racial tensions on the same level as Trayvon Martin or the 'I can't breathe' incident.

The guy was caught and will be put to death...there is no controversy here



now...if somehow he is found not guilty then we can expect riots...but that isn't happenin

[HitandRun Reggie]

His father got him a gun for his 21st birthday.
F#ck The South.

Pure ignorance, just like what you assume of southern rednecks. :facepalm

Connecticut and New Hampshire have a higher gun ownership rate per capita than Texas and most of The South.

[NumberSix]

5'9" buck twenty?

I hope this chump gets assraped and facefcked every single day of his prison life sentence. No death penalty though, just assfcked til he has two assholes and facefcked til he has no teeth anymore. THen finally, have inmates beat him to death by their own hands.
:wtf:

[Lebron23]

http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2015/06/18/everything-known-about-charleston-church-shooting-suspect-dylann-roof/jcr:content/image.crop.800.500.jpg/1434643508970.cached.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHyYMkWXAAMmCuJ.png


http://i61.tinypic.com/71lda1.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/nce3wl.jpg

[ALBballer]

I don't think this will cause racial tensions on the same level as Trayvon Martin or the 'I can't breathe' incident.

The guy was caught and will be put to death...there is no controversy here



now...if somehow he is found not guilty then we can expect riots...but that isn't happenin

I agree but the media outlets are using this story to drive an agenda of "racial issues." They keep mentioning the subject had "sandy blonde hair" and speaking of hate groups and white supremacy.

The media's job is to stir controversy afterall a story of a misguided possibly mentally ill teen shooting up Church of black members is not as interesting of a story. Buzz words like "hate crime" "white supremacy" "racist" well those are much more interesting.

I was just listening to an interview they held with one of the suspects friends. He mentioned how the suspect has used racist language in the past and was possibly on xanax. The xanax angle was ignored...the racist language part. Yep that's the juicy part of the story.

[NumberSix]

Just briefly tuned into msnbc. They were having a conversation about the confederate flag.......


:facepalm

[Patrick Chewing]

Just briefly tuned into msnbc. They were having a conversation about the confederate flag.......


:facepalm


They're ass backwards over there. Don't even bother.


It could be a black man killing 20 white people, and they would probably have an hour-long special on how white oppression was the cause.

[NumberSix]

They're ass backwards over there. Don't even bother.


It could be a black man killing 20 white people, and they would probably have an hour-long special on how white oppression was the cause.
I don't know about that.

[HitandRun Reggie]

Just briefly tuned into msnbc. They were having a conversation about the confederate flag.......


:facepalm

Don't worry, they might have Brian Williams over there soon to legitimize them a little bit. :D NBC wants to move Williams to MSNBC but have him only do breaking news, so he'll have more difficulty lying on the fly. Reports are that, even as liberal as he is, he ain't happy at all about the move.

[Springsteen]

Stuff like this...

It makes me wonder if there's anything waiting for us after death. If there really is a higher power, how could he let something this awful happen? In a place of worship, of all things.

I've always been paranoid about my mortality, and stuff like this just compounds my fear. The evil in this world saddens me.

[KevinNYC]

Somebody actually logged in to an alt account to neg me over this thread.

emotional beta on her period. ~HarryCallahan

[Stempel, HERB]

It's not a hate crime until Don Lemon is on the scene interviewing blk people. Sorry. Those are the rules of the game.

Uncle Don Lemon (https://youtu.be/tTZIe-YLCBw)

[L.Kizzle]

The cops sure did treat him nicely after just murdering 9 people.

[NumberSix]

The cops sure did treat him nicely after just murdering 9 people.
Did he resist arrest? If not, thank the stars that they treated him by the book, otherwise this piece of garbage might have gotten off due to some technicality.

[rufuspaul]

Did he resist arrest? If not, thank the stars that they treated him by the book, otherwise this piece of garbage might have gotten off due to some technicality.

Shelby police reported that he was arrested without incident and is cooperating fully.

BTW Shelby is a town about 40 miles Southwest of Charlotte. It is run by a white cracker political machine that has maintained a majority on the city council and continues to behave as if Jim Crow was still the law of the land. it doesn't surprise me at all that they've treated this dude pretty well.

[Patrick Chewing]

His father got him a gun for his 21st birthday.
F#ck The South.


People give guns to other people all over the world. Not just in the "South".

[iamgine]

He got caught? :(

No mask, no escape plan, no suicide plan....so disappointing.

[MavsSuperFan]

This attack was 100% racially motivated. Saw some people on fox news claim otherwise. SMH. Hopefully Dylann Roof gets the death penalty.

[Jameerthefear]

This attack was 100% racially motivated. Saw some people on fox news claim otherwise. SMH. Hopefully Dylann Roof gets the death penalty.
actual people said that? like how could you claim it wasn't with the statements that have came out? what kind of mental gymnastics does that take?

[MavsSuperFan]

5'9" buck twenty?

I hope this chump gets assraped and facefcked every single day of his prison life sentence. No death penalty though, just assfcked til he has two assholes and facefcked til he has no teeth anymore. THen finally, have inmates beat him to death by their own hands.
He deserves it for all the innocent lives he ruined

[MavsSuperFan]

actual people said that? like how could you claim it wasn't with the statements that have came out? what kind of mental gymnastics does that take?
Yes ill try to find a youtube clip.

[NumberSix]

He deserves it for all the innocent lives he ruined
You say you don't agree with the death penalty, but oddly you're always on the side of rape and torture.

[BRabbiT]

rip:(

[rufuspaul]

Here's a strange coincidence: the lady that recognized the suspect and called police used to be the receptionist in my wife's office.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Here's a strange coincidence: the lady that recognized the suspect and called police used to be the receptionist in my wife's office.

Godzuki, Paula Broadwell, and a witness of a bloodthirsty racist lurking closer.

It's time to leave and build up a moat in your vacation home.

[rufuspaul]

Godzuki, Paula Broadwell, and a witness of a bloodthirsty racist lurking closer.

It's time to leave and build up a moat in your vacation home.

:oldlol:

It will also help in the coming zombie apocalypse.

[Patrick Chewing]

America gonna America. Hate Hate Hate. Racism Racism Racism . Guns Guns Guns. Kill Kill Kill.


America didn't become America with handshakes and patty cakes.


No country became a country without violence.

[Dresta]

You say you don't agree with the death penalty, but oddly you're always on the side of rape and torture.
:lol - tis true. People are all theoretically against this kind of thing, until they have a visceral bodily response to someone doing something they find particularly repugnant.

And people get all antsy at me when i say there is something socially cathartic about executing someone that has greatly wronged society, like this clown for example (i mean look how small he is, and how pathetic, yet his execution would undoubtedly have many people feeling better about the whole business); it provides an outlet for the sadism of the herd: they can at once pretend that they aren't sadistic, because their victim is 'evil' (people have always excused torture in this way), and yet still get the gratification of an enemy having suffered greatly for the wrong he committed.

But yeah, vengeance is clearly at the heart of the human psyche.

[rufuspaul]

Yall still becoming a country or something? Swear America became America in 1776. This kinda sh!t doesnt happen in France, England, Germany, Russia, China etc. And when it does its usually either a rarity, or a psycho whose been inspired by another psycho in America whose done it. The only place where sh!t like this happens is in war zones like Iraq, Syria, Libya. And arse countries like Congo, Somalia, Pakistan, North Korea and the United States.

When someone on the news hears "mass shooting", "many dead", "Gunman murders family" etc, they insitinctivly think of the United States over known war zones and third world countries. Its pathetic. Youre pathetic. The whole system is pathetic. :coleman: :coleman:


List of Rampage Killers in Europe ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers_(Europe))

List of Rampage Killers in Asia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers_(Asia))

[NumberSix]

Yall still becoming a country or something? Swear America became America in 1776. This kinda sh!t doesnt happen in France, England, Germany, Russia, China etc. And when it does its usually either a rarity, or a psycho whose been inspired by another psycho in America whose done it. The only place where sh!t like this happens is in war zones like Iraq, Syria, Libya. And arse countries like Congo, Somalia, Pakistan, North Korea and the United States.

When someone on the news hears "mass shooting", "many dead", "Gunman murders family" etc, they insitinctivly think of the United States over known war zones and third world countries. Its pathetic. Youre pathetic. The whole system is pathetic. :coleman: :coleman:
Western European countries also have the luxury of not sharing a giant border with cartel-war-murderland (which oddly DOES have strict gun control).

What do you think England would think about gun control if they had to share a border with Syria?

[BlakFrankWhite]

Y'know why these things don't happen in countires like Saudi or Iran ?

They fight violence with violence..

while in America....its "ohh,let's give him a lengthy trial but no death sentence...coz that would be soooo horrific"

[NumberSix]

Y'know why these things don't happen in countires like Saudi or Iran ?

They fight violence with violence..

while in America....its "ohh,let's give him a lengthy trial but no death sentence...coz that would be soooo horrific"
Da fcuk are you talkin about? This dude will 100% get the death penalty.

Also, Saudi and Iran don't only fight violence with violence. They fight speech with violence. They fight women's rights with violence. They fight homosexuality with violence. They fight religious freedom with violence.

[Raymone]

"The concept of nonviolence is a false ideal. It presupposes the existence of compassion and a sense of justice on the part of one’s adversary. When this adversary has everything to lose and nothing to gain by exercising justice and compassion, his reaction can only be negative.

The symbol of the male here in North America has always been the gun, the knife, the club. Violence is extolled at every exchange: the TV, the motion pictures, the best-seller lists. The newspapers that sell best are those that carry the boldest, bloodiest headlines and most sports coverage. To die for king and country is to die a hero.

The Kings, Wilkinses and Youngs exhort us in King’s words to ‘put away the knives, put away your arms and clothe yourselves in the breastplate of righteousness’ and ‘turn the other cheek to prove our capacity to endure, to love’. Well, that is good for them perhaps but I most certainly need both sides of my head."

- Black Panther member George Jackson

[rufuspaul]

Europe and Asia are countries now? Some of those mass murders listed go back to 1540....


It lists the countries dumbass. Disregard any that happened before 1980.

[rufuspaul]

Just get rid of your guns idiots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



You know in China it's been a thing for lone killers to walk into a kindergarten or preschool and stab kids to death. China: Get Rid Of Your Knives!!!!!

[STATUTORY]

You know in China it's been a thing for lone killers to walk into a kindergarten or preschool and stab kids to death. China: Get Rid Of Your Knives!!!!!

crazy people everywhere but im guessing machete attacks result in fewer deaths

[Dresta]

It is strange Maksimilian, that you are so keen for law-abiding Americans to forgo their guns, and grant the Federal US Government you so despise a complete monopoly over firearms...

Just expanding the power of the tyrannical force you claim to hate. Disarming the citizenry while turning local police forces into commando units - seems a bit problematic to me.

[warriorfan]

USA has guns, always had guns, always will have guns.

Deal with it

[MavsSuperFan]

You say you don't agree with the death penalty, but oddly you're always on the side of rape and torture.
Da **** you talking about? I have always vigorously supported the death penalty. No one supports the death penalty more than i do. I want the death penalty to be applicable to a wide range of crimes. Rape, child molesters, the ariel castro situation, etc. The idea of executing a guilty person who has committed a heinous crime is 150% justifiable to me. I support the death penalty on the basis that vengeance/punitive punishment should be the primary basis of our justice system. The focus on rehabilitation of human filth disgusts me. Why should murderers live when they have stolen the lives of the innocent and the happiness of their loved ones.

Please provide me one quote where i have even come close to not 100% supporting the death penalty

Edit: i was even glad in the recent cases where the death penalty was botched and murderers suffered as they died.

[BurningHammer]

The killer confessed, saying he want to start a race war.

Yeah, he is a nutjob.

[NumberSix]

I have no words. Knives are made to cut food; For everyday purposes. Yes they can be used as a weapon, but that isn't their purpose. Just like a car is used to transport, but technically it can also become a weapon. A gun was created souly to kill/injure. The fact you yanks havn't figured this out yet is why your children keep getting murdered and your streets are unsafe.
And sometimes, killing is justified. Should you find yourself in a situation where you need to kill to defend your own safety, I would hope that you have the ability to do so.

[NumberSix]

The killer confessed, saying he want to start a race war.

Yeah, he is a nutjob.
Well, hopefully people don't give him what he wants. Sorry pal, the rest of us don't want a race war.

[NumberSix]

Lets not pretend that the US's reluctance to ban weapons is because it fears taking away its peoples freedoms :oldlol: :oldlol: . Its all about business. The weapons manufacturers would lose trillions if guns were banned, leaving a gaping hole in the American economy. In the same way that continuous wars overseas keep the economy and government strong, so do weapons sales at home.

The American government is no better or worse than any of the large military nations (Specifically speaking of China and Russia). I dont think it would make the state look authoritarian if they took away their weapons. I dont consider the UK, French, or Australian governments authoritarian for having strict gun laws. I see it as common sense. They should most definitely take away the freedom of their people to murder other people. Because that's what essentially owning a gun is all about. I'm all for licensed gun use and the such (Ive hunted kangaroo, camel, fox, boar), like they have in Australia and the UK. But the American gun-culture is toxic extremely toxic.
Then don't move to the US. Problem solved.

[Raymone]

I'm all for licensed gun use and the such

Just get rid of your guns idiots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Makes sense.

[BurningHammer]

They just finished hearing. The bond of 1 million dollars is set.

[L.Kizzle]

They just finished hearing. The bond of 1 million dollars is set.
Donald Trump put your money where your mouth is.

[BasedTom]

fcking ellen degeneres looking redneck cvnt

[Raymone]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Michael-pitt-2011-critics-choice-television-awards-01.jpg/220px-Michael-pitt-2011-critics-choice-television-awards-01.jpg

+

http://i1.cdnds.net/14/10/300x225/showbiz-ellen-degeneres-oscars-2014-2.jpg

[Raymone]

+ a dash of Paul Dano

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/PaulDano07.jpg/220px-PaulDano07.jpg

[TheMan]

It is strange Maksimilian, that you are so keen for law-abiding Americans to forgo their guns, and grant the Federal US Government you so despise a complete monopoly over firearms...

Just expanding the power of the tyrannical force you claim to hate. Disarming the citizenry while turning local police forces into commando units - seems a bit problematic to me.:biggums:
I've always thought that the notion of the citizenry having guns as a means to defend themselves from a tyranical government was laughable. It ain't 1770s anymore folks, where citizens had a chance against the army going musket against musket :rolleyes:

If the US government goes ham on us, not much our .38 Specials, Glocks and M4 Carbines gonna do vs Abrams tanks, F18 Hornets, Apache helicopters, etc. They can just go chemical warfare on us and we're fukked. Can we just drop that stupid reason once and for all as to why we need guns? Our biggest defense against a tyranical government will always be that there be enough sane people in government and in the military to not go along with the tyrant(s). A ragtag bunch of rednecks with shotguns don't stand a chance against this military :facepalm

I'm not against guns per se, I'd prefer nobody having guns but that's impossible.

[BurningHammer]

[QUOTE]

[rufuspaul]

1987: Hungerford England, Michael Ryan killed 16, wounded 15
1995: France, Eric Borel killed 15, wounded 4
2002: Naterne, France, Richard Duran killed 8, wounded 19
2005: Italy, Angelo Sacco killed 3, wounded 9
2010: Copeland, UK, Derick Bird killed 12, wounded 11
2011: Liege, Belgium, Nordine Amriani killed 6, wounded 125 :eek:

And these all happened in countries that have strict gun control.

[KyrieTheFuture]

1987: Hungerford England, Michael Ryan killed 16, wounded 15
1995: France, Eric Borel killed 15, wounded 4
2002: Naterne, France, Richard Duran killed 8, wounded 19
2005: Italy, Angelo Sacco killed 3, wounded 9
2010: Copeland, UK, Derick Bird killed 12, wounded 11
2011: Liege, Belgium, Nordine Amriani killed 6, wounded 125 :eek:

And these all happened in countries that have strict gun control.
5 instances in 18 years...what's your point? Because it's happened a few times with gun control there's no point in even having it?

[Stempel, HERB]

5 instances in 18 years...what's your point? Because it's happened a few times with gun control there's no point in even having it?

:applause: You don't look like an idiot after reading only one post in this thread. No, nothing like that.

[NumberSix]

5 instances in 18 years...what's your point? Because it's happened a few times with gun control there's no point in even having it?
Look at England's murder rate before gun control and after gun control. THAT is why there is no point in having it.

[Just2McFly]

white dudes cant handle when their women start loving that bbc:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[plowking]

Cracks me up when America claims they don't have a racism problem, and furthermore that more gun control isn't the way.
You guys have something like this happen so often that it isn't even a shock anymore. Wasn't there another nutjob who armoured up his van and went around shooting at the cops recently there too?

You live in the land of the free, and so called best country in the world, yet you find the need for guns? Why? How is it Australia, Norway, Switzerland, Finland, etc can all live fine without them, and without the threat of their government turning against them?

[rufuspaul]

Cracks me up when America claims they don't have a racism problem, and furthermore that more gun control isn't the way.
You guys have something like this happen so often that it isn't even a shock anymore. Wasn't there another nutjob who armoured up his van and went around shooting at the cops recently there too?

You live in the land of the free, and so called best country in the world, yet you find the need for guns? Why? How is it Australia, Norway, Switzerland, Finland, etc can all live fine without them, and without the threat of their government turning against them?


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/23/norway-attacks

[ThePhantomCreep]

Look at England's murder rate before gun control and after gun control. THAT is why there is no point in having it.

Yeah, who wants to be like other developed nations? We're Murica! It's all about guns 'n baby Jesus up in here.

http://crimepreventionresearchcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Homicide-Rates-for-Developed-Countries-OECD-2011-or-latest-year.png

[plowking]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/23/norway-attacks

I'm well aware of what happened there, yet it isn't the standard, and was an absolute shock when it happened. It isn't a shock anymore whenever it happens in America. In what way can you dispute that?

It keeps happening, and yet you guys somehow think more guns are the answer? How is it that taking the guns away and putting in stricter gun laws offends Americans so much?
Why is it that you are the only country in the world that needs all these guns to feel safe? Why not feel safe knowing it won't happen as much if the guns got taken away? Less you need to "protect" yourself against.

[Nanners]

I am pretty liberal but I dont really think the problem is gun control, but rather the way that americans view guns.

In switzerland, one of the most heavily armed countries on the planet, people buy guns with the intent of protecting themselves, their countrymen and government.

In the US, people buy guns with the intent of protecting themselves from their countrymen and government.

[ThePhantomCreep]

1987: Hungerford England, Michael Ryan killed 16, wounded 15
1995: France, Eric Borel killed 15, wounded 4
2002: Naterne, France, Richard Duran killed 8, wounded 19
2005: Italy, Angelo Sacco killed 3, wounded 9
2010: Copeland, UK, Derick Bird killed 12, wounded 11
2011: Liege, Belgium, Nordine Amriani killed 6, wounded 125 :eek:

And these all happened in countries that have strict gun control.

You know what they call that list in Murica? Tuesday. We have far and away more mass shootings than any developed nation, per capita or otherwise.

Charleston Shooting
Sandy Hook
Ilsa Vista shooting
DC navy yard shooting
Aurora shooting

Just in the last 3-4 years. Between a 2011 shooting at an IHOP restaurant in Carson City, Nev., that left four people dead and the 2013 attack on the Washington Navy Yard where 12 people were killed, a mass shooting occurred somewhere in America once every 64 days, on average.

[plowking]

Look at England's murder rate before gun control and after gun control. THAT is why there is no point in having it.

What is the gun related homicide rate after it? There was an initial rise in homicide rates, but it is now below where it was prior to the gun ban, and I'm fairly sure the gun related homicide rate is well down.

Australia had 11 mass shootings prior to Port Arthur incident. Since then, none, including that terror threat we had just recently in Sydney.

[That_Admiral]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11468584
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11468216

a college shooting? dont't you wonder why these people didnt say anything earlier before this happened? :confusedshrug:

[Dresta]

You know what they call that list in Murica? Tuesday. We have far and away more mass shootings than any developed nation, per capita or otherwise.

Charleston Shooting
Sandy Hook
Ilsa Vista shooting
DC navy yard shooting
Aurora shooting

Just in the last 3-4 years. Between a 2011 shooting at an IHOP restaurant in Carson City, Nev., that left four people dead and the 2013 attack on the Washington Navy Yard where 12 people were killed, a mass shooting occurred somewhere in America once every 64 days, on average.
Honestly, that probably has far more to do with how incredibly over-medicated the American population (and anti-depressants, i know, can make someone completely lose their sense of self), that puts kids on mind-altering drugs while their brains are developing, and think of this as reliable medicine, because large corporate entities have been pushing the solve all problems through medication logic for decades and decades now (that's why the DSM is so ridiculous, and yet people still buy into it).

That, and the American media, which i always feel, each time it covers one of these events, sets off the imaginative spark in another psycho. People have always had guns; gun rampages and school shootings, on this kind of scale, are a completely new phenomena (i.e. the fundamental cause of this increase has to be something other than guns).

The replacement of the solace of religion with the solace of the psychiatrists of the state (a new kind of priest) certainly hasn't helped. But again, you won't even understand this, because you have a faith of your own, one that you believe in so strongly, you don't even recognise it as a faith :oldlol:.

[Dresta]

:biggums:
I've always thought that the notion of the citizenry having guns as a means to defend themselves from a tyranical government was laughable. It ain't 1770s anymore folks, where citizens had a chance against the army going musket against musket :rolleyes:

If the US government goes ham on us, not much our .38 Specials, Glocks and M4 Carbines gonna do vs Abrams tanks, F18 Hornets, Apache helicopters, etc. They can just go chemical warfare on us and we're fukked. Can we just drop that stupid reason once and for all as to why we need guns? Our biggest defense against a tyranical government will always be that there be enough sane people in government and in the military to not go along with the tyrant(s). A ragtag bunch of rednecks with shotguns don't stand a chance against this military :facepalm

I'm not against guns per se, I'd prefer nobody having guns but that's impossible.And yet the army is composed of US citizens. You are really simplifying things - i mean what exactly do you think the military is going to do: nuke its own citizens? How is it going to get away with that? And who is going to do it? If the majority of the country thought the military was growing too strong and tyrannical, then yes, i think 100,000,000+ potentially armed citizens probably would make a difference.

It is a check on power whether you want to acknowledge it or not. Without guns we'd still all be living in the feudal system, because it was only guns that levelled the playing field, and meant plebs didn't need the knightly protection of their local Lords.

[NumberSix]

What is the gun related homicide rate after it?
Does it matter? :confusedshrug:


There was an initial rise in homicide rates, but it is now below where it was prior to the gun ban, and I'm fairly sure the gun related homicide rate is well down.
No, no it isn't. Both the murder rate and crime rate skyrocketed after the gun ban. The murder rate has come down, but is still higher than it was before the ban.

As far as Australia, the crime rate is now way higher than it was before the gun ban. I actually don't know about the murder rate in Australia, so I can speak to that.

[NumberSix]

Yeah, who wants to be like other developed nations? We're Murica! It's all about guns 'n baby Jesus up in here.

http://crimepreventionresearchcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Homicide-Rates-for-Developed-Countries-OECD-2011-or-latest-year.png
Both Mexico and Brazil have strict gun control. Explain why their murder rates are so much higher.

[rufuspaul]

I am pretty liberal but I dont really think the problem is gun control, but rather the way that americans view guns.

In switzerland, one of the most heavily armed countries on the planet, people buy guns with the intent of protecting themselves, their countrymen and government.

In the US, people buy guns with the intent of protecting themselves from their countrymen and government.


True. Making it harder to get guns might help somewhat but it isn't going to change certain people's attitude toward the value of life.

[Dresta]

This was the kind of banal nonsense i was keen to avoid:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/06/19/charleston-church-shooting-rochelle-riley-column/28934849/

Could this terrorist act wake us all up?

Nine lives wiped out.

Nine souls in a place some considered sacred but that hasn't been sacred since 1963.

That was the year that four little girls died in a bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church in 1963. It was the third bombing in 11 days, all responding to mandatory desegregation of Alabama's public schools, all acts of terrorism before talking about terrorism was trendy and the Department of Homeland Security existed.

About 200 people were in that iconic church that morning when the bomb went off in the minutes before the 11 a.m. service. When the smoke and mortar were cleared, four bodies lay in a basement restroom: Denise McNair, just 11, and Addie Mae Collins, Cynthia Wesley and Carole Robertson, all 14. Twenty others were injured.

It took almost 15 years to bring the first bomber in that case to trial and justice. It would take years more for the rest.

That bombing, many believe, increased support for the fight to segregation in Georgia and led some to embrace the Civil Rights Act, which passed in 1964, and the Voting Rights Act, which became law in 1965.

But the fight continues for civil rights and voting rights, which are under attack still.

It took only hours for police to capture Dylann Storm Roof, the 21-year-old Columbia, S.C., man they believe is responsible.

They've done the first of many justice jobs where he is concerned. But what of the rest of us? If this bombing is allowed to be treated like a car accident or a water main break, or anything less than an act of terror that must redefine our conversation about civil rights, then the civil rights movement itself is vulnerable. The civil rights movement is in danger of dying.

And that would be a terrible failure for America.
:lol - it's just such absurd hyperbole.


Get that?: Strange, delusional, disaffected youth decides to shoot some black people in a church; it is therefore the 1960s again and we need a new civil rights movement!! I still wonder, what so-called 'rights' is it that black people still don't have? Since when do we let the actions of a flippin 21-year-old define a bloody nation?

[rufuspaul]

I'm well aware of what happened there, yet it isn't the standard, and was an absolute shock when it happened.


This is always the case with the Euros and America haters. First they say it never happens in their land. Then they backtrack and say oh yeah I guess it does happen every now and then but it's not the norm.

[NumberSix]

True. Making it harder to get guns might help somewhat but it isn't going to change certain people's attitude toward the value of life.
Don't people on the left always argue that making drugs legal would lead to less drug related death?

Drugs are illegal, but people still can easily buy drugs and some people overdose. Why do the left make the exact opposite argument about guns? As if making them illegal means nobody will have them.

Criminals will have guns if they want them. Bans guns just leaves everybody else defenseless.

[Dresta]

Don't people on the left always argue that making drugs legal would lead to less drug related death?

Drugs are illegal, but people still can easily buy drugs and some people overdose. Why do the left make the exact opposite argument about guns? As if making them illegal means nobody will have them.

Criminals will have guns if they want them. Bans guns just leaves everybody else defenseless.
I don't know how mentally defective some people can be, seriously. They banned guns in England, yes, an Island nation, where guns are easy to control, and where the bulk of police aren't even armed (does anyone see this as being practicable in the US? :lol), and it still hasn't been shown to bring down the murder rate (nor to prevent criminals from acquiring guns). Yet, in a country where around 300 million guns reside, and huge borders, gun control is going to reduce homicide rates? Are these people mad?

[plowking]

This is always the case with the Euros and America haters. First they say it never happens in their land. Then they backtrack and say oh yeah I guess it does happen every now and then but it's not the norm.

Are you actually being serious right now? I don't really know how to respond to this... What don't you seem to understand about taking guns away lowering the possibility of mass shootings?
Of course there is still the possibility of it happening, but it clearly isn't a damn near common occurrence like it is starting to become in the USA.

Euros and America haters? What are you talking about? Firstly I live in Australia, and why in the world would I care to offer a solution if I hated your country? I see there is a particular problem going on in your country, and there is a very obvious solution to it, yet you seem to be completely against the idea of it happening.

[plowking]

Does it matter? :confusedshrug:

Of course it matters. There is such things as causation and correlation, circumstance and a whole bunch of other varying factors that go into murder rates. If guns were around, who is to say that death rate wouldn't have gone even higher? Regardless of the ban or not, the death rate may have been destined for a rise based on certain shit that just happened throughout the year.



No, no it isn't. Both the murder rate and crime rate skyrocketed after the gun ban. The murder rate has come down, but is still higher than it was before the ban.

I believe they are now lower than what they were prior guns, and I'm assuming gun deaths are down.


As far as Australia, the crime rate is now way higher than it was before the gun ban. I actually don't know about the murder rate in Australia, so I can speak to that.

Nope. Murder rate is down now compared to prior the gun ban. Robbery had an initial spike after the gun ban but is now lower than ever. Kidnapping is the same. The only thing that has stayed constant throughout all of this is sexual assault crimes.

[Dresta]

Are you actually being serious right now? I don't really know how to respond to this... What don't you seem to understand about taking guns away lowering the possibility of mass shootings?
Of course there is still the possibility of it happening, but it clearly isn't a damn near common occurrence like it is starting to become in the USA.

Euros and America haters? What are you talking about? Firstly I live in Australia, and why in the world would I care to offer a solution if I hated your country? I see there is a particular problem going on in your country, and there is a very obvious solution to it, yet you seem to be completely against the idea of it happening.
Come on dude: there is no solution that will solve the problem of gun crime in the US. Stop comparing vastly different countries: in the UK they may have banned guns, but in London (which is still pretty high crime), they need an army of CCTV cameras (an insane volume of them) to make people feel safe. Not to mention the UK's criminal stats have been massively fiddled with over the past few decades, something which has only recently been getting any mainstream attention (and just look at the comments):

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/15/police-crime-figures-status-claims-fiddling

The UK has its own problems, has banned guns, has massively expanded the use of CCTV and other arbitrary police power, and the crime stats are still being fiddled, the homicide rate has not gone down (and the extent to which it has to do with improved medical emergency services, rather than banning guns), and the prison population still sits at record highs. This is despite more than 10% of murderers being let out of UK prisons having served less than 10 years (and many crimes that would formerly have been called murder, being instead classified as manslaughter, as this is a cheaper and easier conviction for the state). I generally ignore Australia as it is perhaps the biggest (and least interesting) pc nanny-state on the planet, and you keep bringing its irrelevant ass up as an example. Free countries only please; in Australia you can't even choose not to vote, and i've seen how annoying your customs officials are (intrusive *****) :oldlol:.

Since when is such a stupid and child-like country in a position to offer anyone else "solutions"?

edit: not to mention, any clown can put together a bomb if he really wanted to anyway.

[ArbitraryWater]

Why is this singular event the most talked about thing in the World now?!??!

There are much worse things happening.. I mean, this isn't even happening anymore.

[Dresta]

Why is this singular event the most talked about thing in the World now?!??!

There are much worse things happening.. I mean, this isn't even happening anymore.
Because Europeans (and Australians, which is basically the poorly educated refuse of Europeans) tend to have a kind of ***** envy for the United States, and thus won't miss any opportunity to bash the place, call Americans stoopid & racist, and bang-on about how great their own criminal justice systems are, when they are also in terrible shape, and some of them don't even have jury trial :oldlol:.

Must make them feel better about living on a decaying continent that is being immigrantized beyond recognition, and slave to the ideals of the supranational EU (which basically forwards a kind of pc, multicultural, open-border neo-liberalism, the doctrine of the Economist and Financial Times, etc.). This EU project, which has been heavily backed by the US from the very start, and seems little more than the US's poodle based on what happened in Ukraine, is exactly the type of ideology i would instil into a population if i hoped to destroy its culture. Europe is the home of the philistine in this day and age - it has been without religion longer than America, and so the ideology of state power is much stronger and more engrained. Dutch bureaucracy is one of the most irritating things i have ever encountered - i swear, it's like Kafka's Castle here sometimes.

[plowking]

Because Europeans (and Australians, which is basically the poorly educated refuse of Europeans) tend to have a kind of ***** envy for the United States, and thus won't miss any opportunity to bash the place, call Americans stoopid & racist, and bang-on about how great their own criminal justice systems are, when they are also in terrible shape, and some of them don't even have jury trial :oldlol:.


We're the salty ones and haters, and you're off here talking about immigrations officers, and our education system, and how backwards and kiddy we are? :facepalm
I won't even get into the US education system and what not, since that isn't what this thread is about, and you clearly seem to be going on a path to not address the simply issue here; guns and how to stop such things from happening.

This whole American philosophy is kinda backwards... You guys claim you need guns, and have the right, due to your great country, but you need them because of the government, but you're proud to be American, and love your fellow Americans, but we have to be careful of the other Americans.
You guys are patriotic to the point of absurdity.

Its whatever though.

Just answer a couple of these questions...
Do you think your country has a problem currently with mass shootings?
Since you don't believe taking guns away is a solution, what is?
Why don't you think getting rid of guns is a good idea?
Have there been any measures that have been taken at all to address this issue of mass shootings? If yes, what? If no, why not?

[Heilige]

http://www.larazon.es/documents/10165/0/video_content_3252820_20150620182629.pdf


Dylan Roof's manifesto

[East River Livn']

Cracks me up when America claims they don't have a racism problem, and furthermore that more gun control isn't the way.
You guys have something like this happen so often that it isn't even a shock anymore. Wasn't there another nutjob who armoured up his van and went around shooting at the cops recently there too?

You live in the land of the free, and so called best country in the world, yet you find the need for guns? Why? How is it Australia, Norway, Switzerland, Finland, etc can all live fine without them, and without the threat of their government turning against them?

You can't be this stupid. :lol

All those countries have guns. And Switzerland? Most young men are GIVEN Sig 556 rifles and mandated by the government to take them home with them, you know assault rifles. :lol

[BurningHammer]

Norway
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/8/24/1345800208576/Anders-Behring-Breivik-sm-011.jpg

[KyrieTheFuture]

Look at England's murder rate before gun control and after gun control. THAT is why there is no point in having it.
I don't really support gun control, I think Americans should be able to get guns, I just don't think it should be as incredibly easy as it is in some places. Banning guns is a terrible idea.

[NumberSix]

I don't really support gun control, I think Americans should be able to get guns, I just don't think it should be as incredibly easy as it is in some places. Banning guns is a terrible idea.
What does that mean though? Not as easy? I take it that means not as many people being able to get them. The problem is, being able to own a gun is a guaranteed right.

Making it harder to get a gun is like making it harder to vote, or making it harder to hold religious beliefs. The result is fewer people doing it. Surely you understand that it would be illegal to create a policy that would make it more difficult to vote?

[ThePhantomCreep]

Does it matter? :confusedshrug:


No, no it isn't. Both the murder rate and crime rate skyrocketed after the gun ban. The murder rate has come down, but is still higher than it was before the ban.

As far as Australia, the crime rate is now way higher than it was before the gun ban. I actually don't know about the murder rate in Australia, so I can speak to that.

Links please.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Both Mexico and Brazil have strict gun control. Explain why their murder rates are so much higher.

Brazil and Mexico are developing nations with enormous swaths of extreme poverty.

The United States is the richest nation on Earth.

So yeah, we're doing better than them, yay us. :facepalm

[NumberSix]

Links please.here are the statistics of what happened immediately after strict gun control.
http://www.gunfacts.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Guns-in-other-countries-U.K-Violent-Crime-and-Firearm-Ownership-Trendline.jpg

Robbery, murder, assault and rape all increased.

After the gun ban, murder skyrocketed. As a result, they drastically increased the number of police. With that increase in police presence, there has been a decrease, but is still slightly higher that pre-Ban.

So what is the point? Ban guns and drastically increase the police presence, for murder to spike and then basically go back to where it was with the addition of crime in general being about 5x the rate of what it is in America. No, you didn't read that wrong. The UK crime rate is 5x the US crime rate.

What was the point of banning guns? What did it achieve? More police, more crime, more murder for a period, then back down to the same amount of murder.

[NumberSix]

Brazil and Mexico are developing nations with enormous swaths of extreme poverty.

The United States is the richest nation on Earth.

So yeah, we're doing better than them, yay us. :facepalm
So, guns ARENT the problem. :cheers:

[ThePhantomCreep]

So, guns ARENT the problem. :cheers:

Then explain why our homicide rate is significantly worse than other developed nations? And before you answer "teh blacks", the homicide rate among whites is higher too.

US

[ThePhantomCreep]

here are the statistics of what happened immediately after strict gun control.
http://www.gunfacts.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Guns-in-other-countries-U.K-Violent-Crime-and-Firearm-Ownership-Trendline.jpg

Robbery, murder, assault and rape all increased.

After the gun ban, murder skyrocketed. As a result, they drastically increased the number of police. With that increase in police presence, there has been a decrease, but is still slightly higher that pre-Ban.

So what is the point? Ban guns and drastically increase the police presence, for murder to spike and then basically go back to where it was with the addition of crime in general being about 5x the rate of what it is in America. No, you didn't read that wrong. The UK crime rate is 5x the US crime rate.

What was the point of banning guns? What did it achieve? More police, more crime, more murder for a period, then back down to the same amount of murder.Not really.

http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2013/01/12/fact-checking-ben-swann-is-the-uk-really-5-times-more-violent-than-the-us/

[QUOTE] the FBI

[robert de niro]

http://www.larazon.es/documents/10165/0/video_content_3252820_20150620182629.pdf


Dylan Roof's manifesto
he sounds like he posts on here

[NBAplayoffs2001]

England is known to have high mugging rates and stabbing rates in major cities.

Parts of London are rough. Friend spent part of his childhood in a rough London neighborhood.

[ThePhantomCreep]

England is known to have high mugging rates and stabbing rates in major cities.

Parts of London are rough. Friend spent part of his childhood in a rough London neighborhood.

London is paradise compared to New York City. Both cities have a population over 8 million, but London had fewer than 100 homicides in 2014, compared to 328 for NYC. Violent crimes that result in injury, rapes and robberies are much lower as well. US cities do not compare to their European counterparts in terms of crime, infrastructure, QOL, etc.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

London is paradise compared to New York City. Both cities have a population over 8 million, but London had fewer than 100 homicides in 2014, compared to 328 for NYC. Violent crimes that result in injury, rapes and robberies are much lower as well. US cities do not compare to their European counterparts in terms of crime, infrastructure, QOL, etc.

I consider NYC paradise now. My parents lived in a rough NYC neighborhood when crack hit the city.

[MJ23forever]

How is revising the 2nd Amendment going to do anything? :oldlol:

Isn't it already illegal to kill people?

Wait a minute. Are you even American?

Because obviously, criminals obey laws.

Anyway on a serious note, the right to keep and bear arms wasn't granted to us by the the constitution. The right to keep and bear arms is the fundamental, natural unalienable birth right of every human being, endowed to us by our creator at birth. It's an extension of the basic human right to defend yourself, which existed long before the constitution was even drafted. Natural rights maintains that an individual enters into society with certain basic rights and that no government can deny these rights. Natural rights are to be guaranteed and protected, and even if the 2nd amendment was repealed:

1) There is still no authority in the constitution to control private arms. Gun control is not an enumerated power.

2) The right to keep and bear arms would still exist as an inherent right. The Bill of Rights merely put some of those natural rights in writing. Those rights still existed before the Bill Of Rights was written, and still exist even if they were repealed. No state or municipality can legally abrogate those rights.

When James Madison wrote the Second Amendment, he was merely codifying what the founders believed was a natural right necessary for the purposes of resistance and self-preservation.


In other words, the 2nd amendment did not grant us our natural rights, it simply affirms what was already pre-existing, that the right to keep and bear arms is already ours, naturally, endowed to us by our creator, and it's the governments job to recognize, protect, and uphold our natural rights, as natural rights succeed the constitution. If the government ever becomes tyrannical or authoritarian and infringes upon our natural rights , it becomes our duty as American citizens to resist the government and revolt. Deny the people their rights, and the government becomes illegitimate.


With that said, I also wanted to add this:

1) The vast majority of gun owners in America are responsible, law abiding citizens. America does NOT have a gun problem. It has an inner-city gang problem. When you factor that out, our homicide rate is in line with any modern western European nation.

2) Sensible gun control laws already exist. Felons (who are responsible for committing the majority of violent crimes, which the church shooter was a felon) can not purchase or legally own a fire-arm, ever, and people with mental disorders cannot legally purchase or own a gun.

Unfortunately though, there is this thing that exists called crime, where people don't follow these laws, and obtain weapons illegally, and use them for crimes.

For people who want to use emotional appeals to argue that innocent people wouldn't have died in tragedies such as this with stricter gun control laws, that is an outright lie. Guns exist and there is NOTHING we can do about that, and in a country with more guns than people, suddenly infringing on law abiding citizens right to bear arms isn't going to make them disappear. Violent criminals aren't just going to all chuck their guns into a furnace because the law says so, neither are the military or law enforcement officers. But you might be able to take them from Bill, the man who hunts and goes to the shooting range, or Sally, who lives in a part of Detroit with a 58 minute police response time. Banning guns hurts security as now only the dangerous people have them, and innocent law abiding citizens can no longer defend themselves from muggers, rapists or home invaders, such as that 12 year old girl from Oklahoma who shot a convicted sex offender that broke into her home while her mom was at work. Since making all guns go away is essentially impossible, the next safest thing is to give everyone guns. MAD, kind of like how America AND the USSR having nukes is safer then just the one of them. It's a delicate balance. Adam Lanza couldn't commit his crime if the teachers fired back, nor could the movie theater guy, the mall guy, or any of the other people used in these emotional arguments.

[NumberSix]

Because obviously, criminals obey laws.

Anyway on a serious note, the right to keep and bear arms wasn't granted to us by the the constitution. The right to keep and bear arms is the fundamental, natural unalienable birth right of every human being, endowed to us by our creator at birth. It's an extension of the basic human right to defend yourself, which existed long before the constitution was even drafted. Natural rights maintains that an individual enters into society with certain basic rights and that no government can deny these rights. Natural rights are to be guaranteed and protected, and even if the 2nd amendment was repealed:

1) There is still no authority in the constitution to control private arms. Gun control is not an enumerated power.

2) The right to keep and bear arms would still exist as an inherent right. The Bill of Rights merely put some of those natural rights in writing. Those rights still existed before the Bill Of Rights was written, and still exist even if they were repealed. No state or municipality can legally abrogate those rights.

When James Madison wrote the Second Amendment, he was merely codifying what the founders believed was a natural right necessary for the purposes of resistance and self-preservation.


In other words, the 2nd amendment did not grant us our natural rights, it simply affirms what was already pre-existing, that the right to keep and bear arms is already ours, naturally, endowed to us by our creator, and it's the governments job to recognize, protect, and uphold our natural rights, as natural rights succeed the constitution. If the government ever becomes tyrannical or authoritarian and infringes upon our natural rights , it becomes our duty as American citizens to resist the government and revolt. Deny the people their rights, and the government becomes illegitimate.


With that said, I also wanted to add this:

1) The vast majority of gun owners in America are responsible, law abiding citizens. America does NOT have a gun problem. It has an inner-city gang problem. When you factor that out, our homicide rate is in line with any modern western European nation.

2) Sensible gun control laws already exist. Felons (who are responsible for committing the majority of violent crimes, which the church shooter was a felon) can not purchase or legally own a fire-arm, ever, and people with mental disorders cannot legally purchase or own a gun.

Unfortunately though, there is this thing that exists called crime, where people don't follow these laws, and obtain weapons illegally, and use them for crimes.

For people who want to use emotional appeals to argue that innocent people wouldn't have died in tragedies such as this with NOTHING we can do about that, and in a country with more guns than people, suddenly infringing on law abiding citizens right to bear arms isn't going to make them disappear. Violent criminals aren't just going to all chuck their guns into a furnace because the law says so, neither are the military or law enforcement officers. But you might be able to take them from Bill, the man who hunts and goes to the shooting range, or Sally, who lives in a part of Detroit with a 58 minute police response time. Banning guns hurts security as now only the dangerous people have them, and innocent law abiding citizens can no longer defend themselves from muggers, rapists or home invaders, such as that 12 year old girl from Oklahoma who shot a convicted sex offender that broke into her home while her mom was at work. Since making all guns go away is essentially impossible, the next safest thing is to give everyone guns. MAD, kind of like how America AND the USSR having nukes is safer then just the one of them. It's a delicate balance. Adam Lanza couldn't commit his crime if the teachers fired back, nor could the movie theater guy, the mall guy, or any of the other people used in these emotional arguments.
I'll summarize your main point.

There is no appeal to emotion or intellectual argument that justifies the forced romoval of people's natural right to self defense.

[TheMan]

And yet the army is composed of US citizens. You are really simplifying things - i mean what exactly do you think the military is going to do: nuke its own citizens? How is it going to get away with that? And who is going to do it? If the majority of the country thought the military was growing too strong and tyrannical, then yes, i think 100,000,000+ potentially armed citizens probably would make a difference.

It is a check on power whether you want to acknowledge it or not. Without guns we'd still all be living in the feudal system, because it was only guns that levelled the playing field, and meant plebs didn't need the knightly protection of their local Lords.
That's exactly my point :confusedshrug:

We really don't have to fear a "tryanical" government in the US. Those who do are just paranoid af. The military would side with the people (their fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, sons and daughters) so without the military, the government can't subdue the people. We have a long tradition of freedom in the US, a tyrant will never take hold here. And no, 100,000,000 people with tiny weapons won't do shit vs the US military (in the impossible scenario that the army went against it's own).

[TheMan]

Both Mexico and Brazil have strict gun control. Explain why their murder rates are so much higher.
I don't know about Brazil but most of the gun violence in Mexico is due to the cartels. Most of the firearms are imported from the US and are being used to terrorize the whole nation because Americans have an insatiable thirst for narcotics.

Thank you 'Murica :applause: :bowdown:

[NumberSix]

I don't know about Brazil but most of the gun violence in Mexico is due to the cartels. Most of the firearms are imported from the US and are being used to terrorize the whole nation because Americans have an insatiable thirst for narcotics.

Thank you 'Murica :applause: :bowdown:
Wrong again. They buy guns from all around the world. American guns make up about 17%.

Let's be clear here. Mexican cartels have all kinds of grenades, rocket launchers and other military grade weapony. It's not a matter of consumer firearms that are available to the general American public.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Brazil's favelas are far more dangerous than any US ghetto.

[TheMan]

Wrong again. They buy guns from all around the world. American guns make up about 17%.

Let's be clear here. Mexican cartels have all kinds of grenades, rocket launchers and other military grade weapony. It's not a matter of consumer firearms that are available to the general American public.
Link?

I read a Proceso Magazine article a while back that had different figures. Most of the violence is committed with assault rifles from the US, not rocket launchers from Eastern Europe:lol

[NumberSix]

Link?

I read a Proceso Magazine article a while back that had different figures. Most of the violence is committed with assault rifles from the US, not rocket launchers from Eastern Europe:lol
I would imagine the majority of Mexican cartel violence is done with fully automatic guns (which aren't available in the American market) and AK-47s (which is a Russian). Apparently they use a lot of Vietnamese and Belgian guns too.

[Patrick Chewing]

Brazil's favelas are far more dangerous than any US ghetto.


Check out Liveleak. Murder first, ask questions later.

[ThePhantomCreep]

And still lol @ at dopes comparing the richest country on Earth to developing nations like Mexico and Brazil.

Virtually every industrialized nation hands us our ass.

[plowking]

You can't be this stupid. :lol

All those countries have guns. And Switzerland? Most young men are GIVEN Sig 556 rifles and mandated by the government to take them home with them, you know assault rifles. :lol

I live in Australia, I know what we're allowed here. It is far more stringent than over there. Obviously we don't have a problem with gun culture as much as America.

Good on Switzerland, they have shown they are capable of having guns and not acting like idiots with them. No need to change anything.

America on the other hand have a problem with it. Clearly something has to be changed.

[Norcaliblunt]

Each side of the gun debate, right or left, live in the same paranoid world of fear that someone is going to kill them.

Bottom line is you are probably gong to die of cancer or heart disease.

[Patrick Chewing]

Just bought a nice little .22 today. Pick it up Thursday.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Just bought a nice little .22 today. Pick it up Thursday.

Empty cans of Old Milwaukee are scared shitless right now.

[DonDadda59]

Just bought a nice little .22 today. Pick it up Thursday.

Martial Law averted. You da real MVP :applause:

[Patrick Chewing]

Empty cans of Old Milwaukee are scared shitless right now.


Gotta keep my aim straight for when I bring out the big guns.

[HeatFanSince88]

Theres an old saying. If your against guns, your not actually against guns. Your only against citizens owning guns and you support the government(because their oh so genuine) having a monopoly on them because they will in fact need guns to take yours away.

are there people out there that actually have this much faith in their governments? Especially with all of the evidence out there.


And still lol @ at dopes comparing the richest country on Earth to developing nations like Mexico and Brazil.

Virtually every industrialized nation hands us our ass.

That's because America demographics are closer to Brazil than they are to a premier European country such as Germany. ITs just reality. A simple glance at an areas demographics will almost always correlate with its violent crime.

A country with 100% people of european descent has absolutely no problem with gun related incidents.

And yes I know with this incident the kid was "white" and I am absolutely not defending him or supporting his actions. It was ****ed up. But again it involved blacks.

Just as I type this, another shooting is being reported. A black guy in Detroit shooting 9 people at a basketball court. But since the perpetrator is black something tells me that story wont get near the amount of press.

[MJ23forever]

I live in Australia, I know what we're allowed here. It is far more stringent than over there. Obviously we don't have a problem with gun culture as much as America.

Good on Switzerland, they have shown they are capable of having guns and not acting like idiots with them. No need to change anything.

America on the other hand have a problem with it. Clearly something has to be changed.

As I pointed out earlier, America does not have a "gun problem." It has an inner-city gang/inner-city violent crime problem. The vast majority of gun owners in America are law abiding citizens. When you factor out inner-city gang violence, our homicide rate is in line with any modern western European nation.

Criminal homicide is heavily concentrated in large urban centers, in specific areas of those large urban centers, and among a very small, self-identifying group in those specific areas. Our national murder rate is not some incomprehensible mystery that can only be attributed to the inanimate objects. It is largely the work of adult males from age 18 to 39 with criminal records killing other males of that same age and criminal past. America’s horrific murder rate is a result of the transformation of major American cities into Somalia, Rwanda and El Salvador. Our murder rate now largely consists of criminals killing criminals.

Now, it's much easier (and politically correct/safer) to blame "gun availability" and the "gun culture." Here's a newsflash: There are three distinct "gun cultures" - one recreational, one defensive, and one criminal. Guess which one "gun control" doesn't have any effect on?

[ThePhantomCreep]

Theres an old saying. If your against guns, your not actually against guns. Your only against citizens owning guns and you support the government(because their oh so genuine) having a monopoly on them because they will in fact need guns to take yours away.

are there people out there that actually have this much faith in their governments? Especially with all of the evidence out there.



That's because America demographics are closer to Brazil than they are to a premier European country such as Germany. ITs just reality. A simple glance at an areas demographics will almost always correlate with its violent crime.

A country with 100% people of european descent has absolutely no problem with gun related incidents.

And yes I know with this incident the kid was "white" and I am absolutely not defending him or supporting his actions. It was ****ed up. But again it involved blacks.

Just as I type this, another shooting is being reported. A black guy in Detroit shooting 9 people at a basketball court. But since the perpetrator is black something tells me that story wont get near the amount of press.

The homicide rate among whites in this country is still well over twice that of virtually every European nation. That would be bad if the US was of comparable size, but the white population is 200 million in this country.

[longtime lurker]

[QUOTE=MJ23forever]As I pointed out earlier, America does not have a "gun problem." It has an inner-city gang/inner-city violent crime problem. The vast majority of gun owners in America are law abiding citizens. When you factor out inner-city gang violence, our homicide rate is in line with any modern western European nation.

Criminal homicide is heavily concentrated in large urban centers, in specific areas of those large urban centers, and among a very small, self-identifying group in those specific areas. Our national murder rate is not some incomprehensible mystery that can only be attributed to the inanimate objects. It is largely the work of adult males from age 18 to 39 with criminal records killing other males of that same age and criminal past. America

[NumberSix]

So who cares if you could make the country safer for US citizens as long as you're able to compensate for your micro *****.
I want you to give me a good explanation why it is that in America, the areas with the highest gun ownership have the least crime/gun violence, the areas with the strictest gun regulation have the most, and you still come to the conclusion that the way to make the country safer is a countrywide adoption of laws NOT of the places with the least crime, but the places with the most.

[Dresta]

The homicide rate among whites in this country is still well over twice that of virtually every European nation. That would be bad if the US was of comparable size, but the white population is 200 million in this country.
What don't you understand about a huge melting pot on a large landmass, full of inner city ghettos, and with an enormous population, having more crime than smaller, more easily manageable places?

When will you get that simple fact into your block-like head?