Non offensive players like Rodman weren't a problem in 90's like they would be now

[nba_55]

You couldn't zone in the 90's, that means, you couldn't leave guys like Rodman open, you had to stick to him. You couldn't have situation like these in 90's.
In this picture, Noah leave non offensive player Joel open and come to stop Lebron's isolation.

http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-80cce804111d89c65ad81ec833309201?convert_to_webp=t rue.

In the 90's, you couldn't do that. Non-offensive players like Rodman didn't hurt superstars isolations. In this generation, they do.

[ralph_i_el]

This is true. I have no other input. All role players today have to be able to shoot from distance or they are a liability.

[iamgine]

True is true. There is no other input I can give. I'm inputless.

[chips93]

tony allen got benched for this reason, when kerr put bogut on him, and clogged up memphis's offense

[Fallen Angel]

Dennis Rodman made more field goals on Shaquille O'Neal than vice-versa in the 1996 NBA Playoffs.

[Sarcastic]

What zone? GS didn't have to play zone at all. They just let Lebron brick his way to 29% outside 5 feet in single coverage to win a ring.

[SyRyanYang]

Yes. When Kerr put Bogut on Tony Allen, they turned the series around.

[scandisk_]

What zone? GS didn't have to play zone at all. They just let Lebron brick his way to 29% outside 5 feet in single coverage to win a ring.


:roll: :roll: :roll:

[warriorfan]

You couldn't zone in the 90's, that means, you couldn't leave guys like Rodman open, you had to stick to him. You couldn't have situation like these in 90's.
In this picture, Noah leave non offensive player Joel open and come to stop Lebron's isolation.

http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-80cce804111d89c65ad81ec833309201?convert_to_webp=t rue.

In the 90's, you couldn't do that. Non-offensive players like Rodman didn't hurt superstars isolations. In this generation, they do.

Ok, let's just leave Rodman unmarked and have no one box him out. Let me know how that works out for you.

[Prime_Shaq]

Dennis Rodman made more field goals on Shaquille O'Neal than vice-versa in the 1996 NBA Playoffs.
Link? Pretty sure Shaq wasn't guarding Rodman

[dreamwarrior]

Rodman was a decent scorer before coming to the Bulls. His team was just so good that he wanted to troll the league by scoring as little as possible.

[navy]

Roddamn made his impact with offensive rebounds not scoring

[nba_55]

What zone? GS didn't have to play zone at all. They just let Lebron brick his way to 29% outside 5 feet in single coverage to win a ring.

You are off-topic, but still, often Warriors had a defender waiting for Lebron just outside the pain, that wouldn't be allowed in 90's.

[nba_55]

Yes. When Kerr put Bogut on Tony Allen, they turned the series around.

In 90's, that strategy wouldn't be successful.

[Fallen Angel]

Link? Pretty sure Shaq wasn't guarding Rodman
Exactly 10:00 into the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCX2bEBPABQ

[Sarcastic]

You are off-topic, but still, often Warriors had a defender waiting for Lebron just outside the pain, that wouldn't be allowed in 90's.


That's called basketball. When a player goes to the rim with the ball, of course other defenders are going to go contest the shot.

In the 1990s the defenders wouldn't have to go meet him. They were allowed to camp the paint.

[Prime_Shaq]

Exactly 10:00 into the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCX2bEBPABQ
Gotta admit first of all that I only watched 10.00-16.00 in that video and from what I've seen you can clearly tell Rodman only single coveraged Shaq very few times, only once or twice. Shaq missed 3 easy shots. Shaq had a quick spin move which Rodman was forced to foul the rest of the time Rodman always had help as Shaq was making his move. Shaq also knew how to pass out when he couldn't get good positioning but his teammates just didn't make the shots.

[Fallen Angel]

Gotta admit first of all that I only watched 10.00-16.00 in that video and from what I've seen you can clearly tell Rodman only single coveraged Shaq very few times, only once or twice. Shaq missed 3 easy shots. Shaq had a quick spin move which Rodman was forced to foul the rest of the time Rodman always had help as Shaq was making his move. Shaq also knew how to pass out when he couldn't get good positioning but his teammates just didn't make the shots.
Watch the entire part on the 1996 Playoffs, it's worth it.

Shaq freezing against Rodman is astounding to me.

[Prime_Shaq]

Watch the entire part on the 1996 Playoffs, it's worth it.

Shaq freezing against Rodman is astounding to me.
Will do later. Thanks for the video. :cheers:
I wouldn't give Rodman all the credit though, the entire Bulls team collectively made it hard for Shaq.

[Bless Mathews]

Ok, let's just leave Rodman unmarked and have no one box him out. Let me know how that works out for you.

Slayed.

[Fallen Angel]

Will do later. Thanks for the video. :cheers:
I wouldn't give Rodman all the credit though, the entire Bulls team collectively made it hard for Shaq.
Definitely watch the video :lol

[SHAQisGOAT]

You should watch more basketball (at least from those days) before looking all ignorant, talkin out ya ass...

Think every defender had to stayed glued to his man or something? :rolleyes: :oldlol: Didn't happen like that, not even remotely close, I'd say.
Plus, no such thing as defensive 3-seconds back then, nor a restricted area arc, so on...

Even if the rule-book said something about arms-length and such (incase you bring it up), the rule-book still has it that a player can't take more than 2steps with the ball in his hands... Tell me, that's what every ref still follows right? :rolleyes:
Like I've said, watch some games from those days... Only way to tell.

With that said, Rodman was no inept scorer and nor even shooter in his best years. He finished very well around the rim, ofc had all them putbacks too, he could knock some open jumpers here and there (including 3's), was a smart player that knew his limitations and knew how to move the ball...
He scored 11.6 PPG on 56.1% from the field, for the '88 regular-season, in only 26 minutes per game, mostly off the bench; in '92, he shot 32% from 3pt-land during the season, on more than 1 attempt per game, 10 PPG on 54% FG.

And with that, the most important things he brought were terrific rebounding, non-stop hustle and one of the best, most versatile m2m defenses you'll ever witness. Playing more as a SF in his younger days, guarding many types of players.

His scoring output decreased as he got older but, tbh, there was no need for it on the team he played for, he was playing strictly as a big at that point as well, and with what he brought to the table? Totally worth it, let's say.

Oh, and if you didn't have a body on him after a missed shot... Well, he'd KILL your team on them boards, shit, he'd still kill you on the rebounds regardless :lol

Now, learn something before you bring out these ignorant, agenda-driven remarks :facepalm

[FKAri]

You should watch more basketball (at least from those days) before looking all ignorant, talkin out ya ass...

Think every defender had to stayed glued to his man or something? :rolleyes: :oldlol: Didn't happen like that, not even remotely close, I'd say.
Plus, no such thing as defensive 3-seconds back then, nor a restricted area arc, so on...

Even if the rule-book said something about arms-length and such (incase you bring it up), the rule-book still has it that a player can't take more than 2steps with the ball in his hands... Tell me, that's what every ref still follows right? :rolleyes:
Like I've said, watch some games from those days... Only way to tell.

With that said, Rodman was no inept scorer and nor even shooter in his best years. He finished very well around the rim, ofc had all them putbacks too, he could knock some open jumpers here and there (including 3's), was a smart player that knew his limitations and knew how to move the ball...
He scored 11.6 PPG on 56.1% from the field, for the '88 regular-season, in only 26 minutes per game, mostly off the bench; in '92, he shot 32% from 3pt-land during the season, on more than 1 attempt per game, 10 PPG on 54% FG.

And with that, the most important things he brought were terrific rebounding, non-stop hustle and one of the best, most versatile m2m defenses you'll ever witness. Playing more as a SF in his younger days, guarding many types of players.

His scoring output decreased as he got older but, tbh, there was no need for it on the team he played for, he was playing strictly as a big at that point as well, and with what he brought to the table? Totally worth it, let's say.

Oh, and if you didn't have a body on him after a missed shot... Well, he'd KILL your team on them boards, shit, he'd still kill you on the rebounds regardless :lol

Now, learn something before you bring out these ignorant, agenda-driven remarks :facepalm


You're still playing into OP's agenda since you are now complimenting Jordan's supporting cast :oldlol:

[TheMan]

You're still playing into OP's agenda since you are now complimenting Jordan's supporting cast :oldlol:
:facepalm

Jordan had a great team around him.:confusedshrug: I'm not an MJ stan that diminishes his teammates to prop him up but I also don't think they were as stacked as the LeStans would have you think.

[FKAri]

:facepalm

Jordan had a great team around him.:confusedshrug: I'm not an MJ stan that diminishes his teammates to prop him up but I also don't think they were as stacked as the LeStans would have you think.

What I'm saying is stans will find an argument either way. They can't be reasoned with.

[SHAQisGOAT]

You're still playing into OP's agenda since you are now complimenting Jordan's supporting cast :oldlol:

I don't give a **** about the OP's agenda tbh, I'd compliment Rodman either way because he was a big-time player.
I'm far from a Jordan stan or something also though, while I'll say that Rodman was at his overall best (and overall best defensively) with the Bad Boys.

[Pointguard]

That's called basketball. When a player goes to the rim with the ball, of course other defenders are going to go contest the shot.

In the 1990s the defenders wouldn't have to go meet him. They were allowed to camp the paint.

Nothing else has to be said here.

Exactly... Precise

[nba_55]

That's called basketball. When a player goes to the rim with the ball, of course other defenders are going to go contest the shot.

In the 1990s the defenders wouldn't have to go meet him. They were allowed to camp the paint.

They couldn't do what Noah was doing in the picture, that kind of defense makes the isolations less effective.

[3ball]

You couldn't zone in the 90's, that means, you couldn't leave guys like Rodman open, you had to stick to him.


Today's defensive 3 seconds rule forces defenders to stay within armslength (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) of their man (3 feet) while inside the 16 x 19 foot paint - defenders must hug their man at all times when inside the paint.

So your post is wrong - defenders in the paint can't play off their man like you are saying - they can only do this OUTSIDE the paint, which has much less value.

Otoh, in previous eras, Rule 2b (http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html) of the Illegal Defense Guidelines allowed defenders to remain in the paint "with no time restriction" if their man was anywhere inside the paint, or within 3 feet or either side.. So in previous eras, defenders in the paint COULD play off their man (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11021295&postcount=9).






http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-80cce804111d89c65ad81ec833309201?convert_to_webp=t rue




Your picture above shows how spacing overrides everything.. In the picture, floor-spreaders have drawn defenders away from the strongside.. If Noah doesn't leave his man on the weakside and flood to the strongside, the strongside will only have 1 defender on it and Lebron will go 1-on-1 all alone.

This demonstrates how spacing necessitates flooding - defenders must flood BACK to the strongside (Noah), only because they were originally drawn away by floor-spreaders on the weakside.

Otoh, previous eras didn't have weakside floor-spreaders drawing defenders away from the strongside, so the strongside was usually ALREADY FLOODED with all 5 defenders, as seen below:

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/6f2bdd4d49761fa8f80d0db756aa9770.gif
.

[3ball]

I'll give a clear visual example of the difference in paint-camping rules.

[3ball]

http://i.imgur.com/2PoulES.gif


Notice Speights on baseline, left of the rim - ideally, he'd be waiting under the rim the whole time to contest Lebron.. But today's defensive 3 seconds rule doesn't allow defenders to wait in the 16 x 19 foot painted area if no one is within armslength (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) (about 3 feet).. So Speights has walk to AWAY from the rim to remain within armslength of his man, which prevents him from contesting Lebron.

Otoh, in previous eras, Rule 2b (http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html) of the Illegal Defense Guidelines allowed defenders to remain in the paint "with no time restriction" if their man was anywhere inside the paint, or within 3 feet or either side.. So in the clip above, Speights would've been waiting under the rim to contest Lebron and force him into a tougher shot.
.

[rzp]

Watch the entire part on the 1996 Playoffs, it's worth it.

Shaq freezing against Rodman is astounding to me.

1996 EFC

Shaquille ONeal
- role: carry the team, defensively, ofensively.
- stats: 27/11/4 (64%fg) (despite being fouled in almost every possession LMAO)

Dennis Rodman
- role: piss Shaq off (Pippen and the GOAT bb player will do the rest)
- stats: 12/16/1 (52%fg)

"Schools and Destroys"? Really?

nice documentary (/props)

[catch24]

Rodman would rape this league. lmao

TT on animal steroids...

[FatComputerNerd]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-KGVwZO49pAM/VWdMVEPcy6I/AAAAAAAAGVY/39OrpuEbPtc/s800/Christian%252520Thompson%252520wind%252520defender s.jpg

[warriorfan]

http://www.gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/3b4fd155397932e7efc7c0a04faccb92.gif


Notice Speights on baseline, left of the rim - ideally, he'd be waiting under the rim the whole time to contest Lebron.. But today's defensive 3 seconds rule doesn't allow defenders to wait in the 16 x 19 foot painted area if no one is within armslength (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) (about 3 feet).. So Speights has walk to AWAY from the rim to remain within armslength of his man, which prevents him from contesting Lebron.

Otoh, in previous eras, Rule 2b (http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html) of the Illegal Defense Guidelines allowed defenders to remain in the paint "with no time restriction" if their man was anywhere inside the paint, or within 3 feet or either side.. So in the clip above, Speights would've been waiting under the rim to contest Lebron and force him into a tougher shot.

Check out David Lee (number 10) on that play... :roll:

[FatComputerNerd]

Rodman could be offensive when he wanted to, he just rarely had to.

He was not a bad offensive player by any means.

[nba_55]

Today's defensive 3 seconds rule forces defenders to stay within armslength (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) of their man (3 feet) while inside the 16 x 19 foot paint - defenders must hug their man at all times when inside the paint.

So your post is wrong - defenders in the paint can't play off their man like you are saying - they can only do this OUTSIDE the paint, which has much less value.


.

No, my post in not wrong. I never talked about defenders in the paint as you can see clearly in here.


You couldn't zone in the 90's, that means, you couldn't leave guys like Rodman open, you had to stick to him. You couldn't have situation like these in 90's.
In this picture, Noah leave non offensive player Joel open and come to stop Lebron's isolation.

http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg...to_webp=t rue.

In the 90's, you couldn't do that. Non-offensive players like Rodman didn't hurt superstars isolations. In this generation, they do.

And outside the paint, it still very valuable, it makes the isolation less effective and harder.90's rules prevented that.
And the spacing part of your post is off-topic as always.

[jstern]

He would probably develop a decent 3 point shot. But what a boring game that would be, Rodman standing by the 3 point line.

Speaking of Rodman and 3 pointers, I don't know if anyone posted this video on this thread, but here.

Edit: Forgot the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRkuPztt8Ok

[UK2K]

Watch the entire part on the 1996 Playoffs, it's worth it.

Shaq freezing against Rodman is astounding to me.
Rodman would foul out within minutes in today's game

Sad.

[stephanieg]

Modern title teams have had players like Ben Wallace, Tyson Chandler, and the KG-era Celts had Perkins and Rondo although both were better back than compared to now they were still liabilities.