Windhorst: Cavs Haywood + 24th Pick For Andersen/Chalmbers or David Lee Possible

[Meticode]

Nothing has been discussed between teams as far as we know, but the Heat are looking to move Chalmers and Andersen to free up money to pay less luxury tax and try to retain Wade at the same time. one way they can do that is to trade Andersen/Chalmers to the Cavs for Haywood's $10 contract + the 24th pick. This works out perfectly for both teams because the Heat save money, and the Cavs get their legit back up point guard they want (and LeBron punching bag) along with another big-man to solidify the front court defensively in case of injury or if Love leaves.

Also David Lee has made known he wants to respectfully play elsewhere because he doesn't like his role on the team. This is another potential for the Cavs (less likely).

Personally I would like the Heat trade. It works out good for both teams for what they want, and I wouldn't mind Chalmers being #2 off the bench. Especailly if the Cavs retain Thompson, LeBron, Love, Shumpert and J.R.

[Droid101]

Chalmers would kill himself.

[Thunderfan86]

:biggums:

[Cocaine80s]

Cleveland Heat

Kyrie/Delly/Chalmers
Wade/JR
Lebron/Shump
Love/TT
Mozgov/Verajao/Birdman

:bowdown:

[RedBlackAttack]

Wow, those deals sound... terrible.

[Papaya Petee]

Wow, those deals sound... terrible.
No they sound amazing. Chalmers is yours! Hes a star trust me.

[raprap]

Chalmers is lebrons b!tch forever. :oldlol:

[RedBlackAttack]

David Lee could be of some use, I guess, as a 5th big... basically taking Perkins' role. Even Anderson has some value in that role, though he'd very rarely see the court.

But, Chalmers stinks and I have no interest in him.

I'd much rather just keep the 24th pick.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

https://38.media.tumblr.com/9f3837e08f899bc1c535b18263e0c903/tumblr_mmjmd7oSQi1r70xplo1_500.gif

[Crown&Coke]

https://38.media.tumblr.com/9f3837e08f899bc1c535b18263e0c903/tumblr_mmjmd7oSQi1r70xplo1_500.gif

:roll:

wtf

[QuebecBaller]

While at it, why not sign and trade Love for Bosh

and trade Irving for Wade

[Meticode]

But, Chalmers stinks and I have no interest in him.

I'd much rather just keep the 24th pick.
Absolutely, 100% disagree with you here. He did have a bad season last season, but so did the whole Heat team. Overall to me he is a slightly above average defender when he's engaged, which is better than Irving, but more importantly is his shooting ability. He majorly struggled last year, but then again, that was last year with a degraded Miami Heat team. His previous four years, the years LeBron was there?...

10-11: 40% FG% 36% 3P%
11-12: 45% FG% 39% 3P%
12-13: 43% FG% 41% 3P%
13-14: 45% FG% 39% 3P%

...also consider he wasn't even playing 30 minutes per game for any of those seasons and he was averaging over a steal and a half a game. If he's given full starter minutes he's probably going to be top 10 in steals for the league. Also usually having over a 2 to 1 turnover to assist ratio, which isn't great, but not terrible either.

I think that's far from stinking and I think he'd be a good fit, but it's not what the Cavaliers have stated they're looking for. They want someone who can create a shot apparently. At least while LeBron was in Miami Chalmers was more of a shooter, but he's a better self shot creator than Delly is also.

I don't see David Lee's worth unless Kevin Love would leave.

[Meticode]

Chalmers would kill himself.
I don't.

[Papaya Petee]

Absolutely, 100% disagree with you here. He did have a bad season last season, but so did the whole Heat team. Overall to me he is a slightly above average defender when he's engaged, which is better than Irving, but more importantly is his shooting ability. He majorly struggled last year, but then again, that was last year with a degraded Miami Heat team. His previous four years, the years LeBron was there?...

10-11: 40% FG% 36% 3P%
11-12: 45% FG% 39% 3P%
12-13: 43% FG% 41% 3P%
13-14: 45% FG% 39% 3P%

...also consider he wasn't even playing 30 minutes per game for any of those seasons and he was averaging over a steal and a half a game. If he's given full starter minutes he's probably going to be top 10 in steals for the league. Also usually having over a 2 to 1 turnover to assist ratio, which isn't great, but not terrible either.

I think that's far for terrible and I think he'd be a good fit, but it's not what the Cavaliers have stated they're looking for. They want someone who can create a shot apparently. At least while LeBron was in Miami Chalmers was more of a shooter, but he's a better self shot creator than Delly is also.

I don't see David Lee's worth unless Kevin Love would leave.

Looking at Chalmers' stats and justifying that he's not awful won't work. Any Heat fan can tell you by watching games.

He constantly drives to the hoop to either get stripped, blocked, throw up a horrible shot, or make a horrible pass that results in a turnover. He dribbles baseline to step out of bounds all the time. He complains to the refs all the time. He constantly committs stupid or costly fouls.

Many times he had Wade or Lebron and instead of running the offense through them he ran the shotclock out to make a horrible decision.

The amount of bone headed/stupid plays he makes is unmeasurable. No other player has made me want to rip my hair out of my head that bad.

Hes horrible.

[RedBlackAttack]

Look at his playoff numbers leading into last year, wherein he was truly awful. He averaged 6 points in 27 minutes a night and was barely even able to get on the court in the Finals without the Spurs immediately going on a huge run.

He was trending in a bad direction before last year, and then he just totally fell off the cliff.

The Cavs have stated that they want to go after a relatively young player who they can add to the core of this roster. That isn't Chalmers, who is 29 right now.

There's a reason Heat fans are celebrating that he is headed out the door.

[Meticode]

Look at his playoff numbers leading into last year, wherein he was truly awful. He averaged 6 points in 27 minutes a night and was barely even able to get on the court in the Finals without the Spurs immediately going on a huge run.
One, it didn't matter who was on the ****ing court when the Spurs won the Finals. They shot lights out. Chalmers along with everyone else on the team couldn't do anything. You can't look at averages and just say 6 points over 27 minutes because his role wasn't to score the basketball, his role was to shoot threes when needed (and he wasn't even their primary three point shooter) and to defend. His averages aren't even bad in the playoffs...

10-11: 44% FG%, 38% 3P%
11-12: 44% FG%, 36% 3P%
12-13: 42% FG%, 35% 3P%
13-14: 42% FG%, 35% 3P%

...I don't know. Those aren't "stinking" numbers to me. And using the Spurs Finals was a bad argument considering that was literally one of the most lopsided Finals sha-lackings ever. They shot completely lights out. I guess we'll be on opposite sides of the debate here without either of us budging.


He was trending in a bad direction before last year, and then he just totally fell off the cliff.
The whole Heat team fell off a cliff. It's the enviorment to me, not just Chalmers.


The Cavs have stated that they want to go after a relatively young player who they can add to the core of this roster. That isn't Chalmers, who is 29 right now.
It heard this as well, but also I heard Griffin was looking for someone 29 or younger, which actually Chalmers does fit. I actually have read 26-29 specifically.


There's a reason Heat fans are celebrating that he is headed out the door.
The reason they're celebrating is because he had a bad statistical season and is one of the scapegoats for their failed season with injuries, and the failed Bosh, Dragic and Wade experiment because of those injuries. Using Heat fans in a debate is moot, because they're some of the worse supportive fans in the league and have some of the largest number of stans in the league.

------------

Overall I think they can do slightly better obviously, but I don't think it's a bad trade for the Cavaliers. The Heat won two Finals with Chalmers getting over 25 minutes per game at the PG position, so he can't be that bad.

[BigTicket]

Wow, those deals sound... terrible.

Agreed, I have no interest in either one of these deals.

Would rather waive Haywood and keep the pick.

[Meticode]

Agreed, I have no interest in either one of these deals.

Would rather waive Haywood and keep the pick.
Then in my opinion the team would regress, you missed your oppertunity to improve and you gave away your assets in the mean-time. That's totally illogical to me.

[RedBlackAttack]

They're celebrating because they watched him play every night. I don't really care what his statistics were prior to the 2013-14 playoff run. That is the most recent post-season sampling we have and we're not getting a 25-26 year old Chalmers... we're getting the model who is pushing 30.

The Chalmers I saw during the Heat's last playoff run is not a guy who is going to help us that time of year. Just from a perspective of giving us depth, he'd probably help in the regular season, but I don't really think he is a significant upgrade over Dellavedova at this stage of his career, if at all... and Delly is still very young.

Chalmers is a mediocre scorer/shooter with limited playmaking skills. He has decent length at the position and is an OK defender, but Norris Cole is actually the guy the Heat would insert when they wanted to crank up the defense. And then there's Chalmers' age.

I just look at him and wonder, what does he give this team that it doesn't already have? I don't see it.

[Meticode]

They're celebrating because they watched him play every night. I don't really care what his statistics were prior to the 2013-14 playoff run. That is the most recent post-season sampling we have and we're not getting a 25-26 year old Chalmers... we're getting the model who is pushing 30.

The Chalmers I saw during the Heat's last playoff run is not a guy who is going to help us that time of year. Just from a perspective of giving us depth, he'd probably help in the regular season, but I don't really think he is a significant upgrade over Dellavedova at this stage of his career, if at all... and Delly is still very young.

I look at Chalmers and wonder what he really gives us, aside from slightly more depth at the guard position. He is a mediocre scorer/shooter with limited playmaking skills. He has decent length at the position and is an OK defender, but Norris Cole is actually the guy the Heat would insert when they wanted to crank up the defense. And then there's Chalmers' age.

I just look at him and wonder, what does he give this team that it doesn't already have? I don't see it.
I pretty much disagree with most things typed here. Like I said, we're not going to budge. Fair enough.

[RedBlackAttack]

Agreed, I have no interest in either one of these deals.

Would rather waive Haywood and keep the pick.
When in doubt, ask yourself WWSAD. What would San Antonio do?

The answer seems obvious... and it wouldn't include the name Mario Chalmers.

[Papaya Petee]

I pretty much disagree with most things typed here. Like I said, we're not going to budge. Fair enough.
Unfortunately for you he's 100% right and you're wrong.

If this trade goes down, and you actually get to watch Chalmers play and not pretend you do, we will see how quick you change your opinion about this. I give it 25 games tops and you'll be making posts wanting him off your team.

[PleezeBelieve]

Terrible deal for the Cavs clearly

[Meticode]

Unfortunately for you he's 100% right and you're wrong.

If this trade goes down, and you actually get to watch Chalmers play and not pretend you do, we will see how quick you change your opinion about this. I give it 25 games tops and you'll be making posts wanting him off your team.
Unfortunately Mario Chalmers hasn't played a game for the Cavaliers so no one is 100% right or wrong in terms of how it would effect the team and how he would play. Everything that's been posted about the possible trade is all opinion and speculation. You're speculating he'd be bad, just like I'm speculating he'd fit in and it would benefit the Cavaliers. Would I change my opinion if he didn't work out? Absolutely, and I would admit I'm wrong. Just like right now I'm admitting we need to sure-up the PG spot. After Delly had his good game I thought he should retain his role at the time, but after his horrible struggle the last 3 games of the Finals it obviously needs to be sured-up because he's often a liability offensively.

[Meticode]

When in doubt, ask yourself WWSAD. What would San Antonio do?

The answer seems obvious... and it wouldn't include the name Mario Chalmers.
:rolleyes:

[RedBlackAttack]

http://i55.tinypic.com/9gy89x.jpg

[Meticode]

I didn't even clearly mention the biggest asset Chalmers would provide the Cavs. He would automatically become the Cavs new punching bag for LeBron, and relieve pressure off David Blatt having that current title.

[el gringos]

I don't think they'd have to add the pick. Prob for either deal.


If Cleveland makes a trade w golden state it will be lee and Barnes and a pick for Kevin love

[warriorfan]

Who remembers Chalmer's NCAA Finals game tying 3 pointer? Shit was crazy

[FireDavidKahn]

Nothing has been discussed between teams as far as we know, but the Heat are looking to move Chalmers and Andersen to free up money to pay less luxury tax and try to retain Wade at the same time. one way they can do that is to trade Andersen/Chalmers to the Cavs for Haywood's $10 contract + the 24th pick. This works out perfectly for both teams because the Heat save money, and the Cavs get their legit back up point guard they want (and LeBron punching bag) along with another big-man to solidify the front court defensively in case of injury or if Love leaves.

Also David Lee has made known he wants to respectfully play elsewhere because he doesn't like his role on the team. This is another potential for the Cavs (less likely).

Personally I would like the Heat trade. It works out good for both teams for what they want, and I wouldn't mind Chalmers being #2 off the bench. Especailly if the Cavs retain Thompson, LeBron, Love, Shumpert and J.R.
Clickbait:coleman:

[Meticode]

Clickbait:coleman:
Windhorst: Cavs Haywood + 24th Pick For Andersen/Chalmbers or David Lee Possible

The whole point of the thread was to post a possibility of what the Cavs can trade for versus what them and the other team wants. This is just a couple of possibilities. I don't know of others, but I know there are others.

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't think they'd have to add the pick. Prob for either deal.


If Cleveland makes a trade w golden state it will be lee and Barnes and a pick for Kevin love
wut

[BigTicket]

Then in my opinion the team would regress, you missed your oppertunity to improve and you gave away your assets in the mean-time. That's totally illogical to me.

I'm not opposed to trading Haywood in general, but only if the Cavs can get something useful back. And I don't see how either one of these trades do that.

[Meticode]

wut
Stop doing this. You've done it two posts in a row in this thread.

[Meticode]

I'm not opposed to trading Haywood in general, but only if the Cavs can get something useful back. And I don't see how either one of these trades do that.
As I've stated after your reply, I feel Chalmers helps us. My opinion still stands unless I were to see otherwise. I'm by myself on this obviously, which is fine. At the same time though, I think the Cavs can do better.

[RedBlackAttack]

Stop doing this. You've done it two posts in a row in this thread.
Can you please, for the love of God and all things holy, get off my nuts?

[FireDavidKahn]

Windhorst: Cavs Haywood + 24th Pick For Andersen/Chalmbers or David Lee Possible

The whole point of the thread was to post a possibility of what the Cavs can trade for versus what them and the other team wants. This is just a couple of possibilities. I don't know of others, but I know there are others.
It's his opinion of a trade that he would like to see happen. The article even states that the teams haven't talked. There is no steam behind this.

[Meticode]

It's his opinion of a trade that he would like to see happen. The article even states that the teams haven't talked. There is no steam behind this.
I know this. in terms of "possible" in my title it's just that if they were to actually offer the trade, technically it would go through with league approval, the money works out and everything. There's a lot of possible trades they can do, but this one is listed because the the Cavs have something the Heat could use, and I think the Cavs could use what they Heat are offering. As I said, possible.

[Meticode]

Can you please, for the love of God and all things holy, get off my nuts?
I don't believe in God, I'm agnostic. Also if I'm annoying you or whatever is it, blame yourself. You replied to my post. You made the choice to interact with me.

[DMAVS41]

Would hope they could do better than that.

[IncarceratedBob]

Cavs should try and buy low on an injury prone player ala Wes Matthews. Once the salary cap goes up he won't seem as expensive. Low risk, high reward

[Meticode]

Cavs should try and buy low on an injury prone player ala Wes Matthews. Once the salary cap goes up he won't seem as expensive. Low risk, high reward
That'd be interesting.

[Meticode]

Would hope they could do better than that.
Why do you hope?

[DMAVS41]

Why do you hope?

What do you mean?

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

David Lee is one of my favorite players. I like how professional his camp and GSW have been about this, being an amicable separation.

I'd love to see him go to the Cavs and win another title there lol. But not sure his role would be much different than in GSW, unless either KLove or TT leave.

[Meticode]

What do you mean?
Most people would hope the Cavaliers fail is all and would do this trade in the thinking it wouldn't work out for them.

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't believe in God, I'm agnostic. Also if I'm annoying you or whatever is it, blame yourself. You replied to my post. You made the choice to interact with me.
Actually, I didn't reply directly to your post. Check out how many times I've quoted you in this thread and how many times you've quoted me. You're choosing to interact with me. And, not only that, but also attempting to instill some kind of lessons on posting etiquette.

You mind your posts and I'll continue doing what I do. K?

I'm agnostic too. At least we have one thing in common.

[DMAVS41]

Most people would hope the Cavaliers fail is all and would do this trade in the thinking it wouldn't work out for them.

I don't really have a rooting interest either way....

That phrase is commonly used to imply that someone should be doing something...without meaning you really "hope" it.

Like...."I would hope that a NBA player could make over 50% free throws"

That doesn't actually mean I really hope they do it.

[Meticode]

Actually, I didn't reply directly to your post.
Did you reply to the thread title and its subject-matter? Who started the thread and discussion? Do I really need to get that specific with you?


You mind your posts and I'll continue doing what I do. K?
What is doing what you do exactly?


I'm agnostic too. At least we have one thing in common.
And we're from and I believe both born in Ohio? Unless my assumption about you is incorrect.

[RedBlackAttack]

Did you reply to the thread title and its subject-matter? Who started the thread and discussion? Do I really need to get that specific with you?
You don't own a thread simply because you start it. In general, I'm not necessarily responding to the thread-starter by default just by posting in a thread.

Usually, I will quote someone when I'm addressing them directly. That didn't happen here, at least on my end.


What is doing what you do exactly?
Posting in a manner I see fit... which happens not to include checking my Meticode rulebook.


And we're from and I believe both born in Ohio? Unless my assumption about you is incorrect.
:rolleyes:

[NattyPButter]

anything over seeing Delly getting back up mins.

[coin24]

Cavs:lol :facepalm

[ShackEelOKneel]

https://38.media.tumblr.com/9f3837e08f899bc1c535b18263e0c903/tumblr_mmjmd7oSQi1r70xplo1_500.gif
:lol I've never seen that before.

[plowking]

That 24th pick would be great. Anything to get rid of Chalmers.

[HylianNightmare]

Poor chalmers

[SwishSquared]

Cavs would really be bailing out the Heat here imo. They get to wipe out Chalmers' & Birdman's salaries + gain a pick that they can use in another trade (as a combo with the Haywood contract). That's a great deal for Miami, less so for the Cavs. Chalmers struggled on a depleted team, but you can do better offensively at PG with Aaron Brooks with the mini-MLE. Birdman is a stable vet, but he's very old.

The combo of the Haywood contract + pick should net them a better player imo.

[niko]

Did you reply to the thread title and its subject-matter? Who started the thread and discussion? Do I really need to get that specific with you?


What is doing what you do exactly?


And we're from and I believe both born in Ohio? Unless my assumption about you is incorrect.
Trust me he's not interacting with you. Why would anyone want to do that?

Both trades sound terrible and a total waste of resources by Cleveland. Trade your two chips and take on salary and get crap.

[BallsOut]

trade Andersen/Chalmers to the Cavs for Haywood's $10 contract + the 24th pick.

This is an excellent trade for both teams and especially the Cavs. Chalmers and Birdman bring championship experience to the Cavalier squad.

PG: Irving | Delly
SG: JR Smith | Chalmers
SF: Lebron | Shumpert | Miller
PF: Love | Thompson | Marion
C: Mozgov | Verajao | Birdman | Perkins

:eek: :bowdown:

[nba_55]

Bad trades for Cavs. Chalmers sucks, Delly is a better fit and they don't need another big.

[Fallen Angel]

This is an excellent trade for both teams and especially the Cavs. Chalmers and Birdman bring championship experience to the Cavalier squad.

PG: Irving | Delly
SG: JR Smith | Chalmers
SF: Lebron | Shumpert | Miller
PF: Love | Thompson | Marion
C: Mozgov | Verajao | Birdman | Perkins

:eek: :bowdown:
Why in the world would the Cavs wan't 5 rotational big men on their roster? There's already a clog in their rotation as right now, all a team needs is 3 big men to rotate.

[CarlosBoozer]

If Delly could somehow improve his dribbling and shooting, then I would just keep him, but Chalmers is a pretty good asset for the Cavs, a PG who is a decent ball handler and shooter. Also Irving will need all the rest he can get during the regular season, two decent backup pgs is a must.

[Papaya Petee]

Holy shit I cannot believe that there are people who are actually saying this is a good trade for the Cavs and Chalmers will be a valuable asset.

Can shoot? He just had one of the worst shooting seasons I've seen from a starting point guard. If not for Chalmers bricking open 3 after open 3 Wade would of baf another 7 APG season.

Can dribble? Has a hard time bringing the ball up when pressure applied.

I know all the other Heat fans are just praying this happens

[ArbitraryWater]

Meticode and RBA though :biggums:

Meticode you gotta lay off him :lol

RBA mainly expressed the consensus opinion... Chalmers does suck, Heat fans were vouching for him to gtfoh back in 2014 before the Spurs ran a train on them and Chalmers had like the worst series ever.

[poido123]

Cavs can do better. WAY better.

[DukeDelonte13]

rather have delly than chalmers.


Delly doesn't do dumb things on the court. He plays to his role exactly. He's fine backing up Kyrie.

I'm all for upgrading the backup PG spot, but I don't think chalmers is much of an upgrade if at all.

[DukeDelonte13]

Bad trades for Cavs. Chalmers sucks, Delly is a better fit and they don't need another big.


this.

[Dresta]

This would be ideal for Miami.

[Meticode]

Meticode and RBA though :biggums:

Meticode you gotta lay off him :lol

RBA mainly expressed the consensus opinion... Chalmers does suck, Heat fans were vouching for him to gtfoh back in 2014 before the Spurs ran a train on them and Chalmers had like the worst series ever.
I think he could put up similar play and numbers before this last season, perhaps even better. It's all opinions a this point and I understand people will mostly disagree with me because they look at what is most recent and go completely off that.

[Meticode]

Bad trades for Cavs. Chalmers sucks, Delly is a better fit and they don't need another big.
I disagree about the big and so do tons of fans on RealCavsFans.com. Even with Varejao being the 4th big on the in the rotation with Mozgov, Thompson and Love if they all come back, you can't depend on Varejao to not be injured anymore.

You can never have too many big bodies in the NBA.

[Meticode]

Why in the world would the Cavs wan't 5 rotational big men on their roster? There's already a clog in their rotation as right now, all a team needs is 3 big men to rotate.
It wouldn't be a rotation, it would be an insurance policy for someone to step up and fill a roll if someone goes down (mainly Varejao).

Also you can check Marion off the list, he said he's retiring and after the Finals he re-confirmed that.

[Derka]

The words "Mario Chalmers" and "good trade for Cleveland" have no business being in the same sentence. He is garbage and are you really in this big of a rush to land a backup PG? Cavs are gonna run away with the East next year with Love, Irving (hopefully) and Varejao (hopefully) healthy...so you've got time.

Develop Delly...there's a lot potential there and he's still very young and looks to me like the kind of guy who will put in the work to improve his shooting and his dribbling. He's also going to have to bump up his conditioning and be ready for those 30-40 minute nights when Kyrie inevitably suffers another injury.

[Meticode]

This is an excellent trade for both teams and especially the Cavs. Chalmers and Birdman bring championship experience to the Cavalier squad.

PG: Irving | Delly
SG: JR Smith | Chalmers
SF: Lebron | Shumpert | Miller
PF: Love | Thompson | Marion
C: Mozgov | Verajao | Birdman | Perkins

:eek: :bowdown:
If the trade were to happen, the rotations would look more like this...Marion is retiring.

Irving / Chalmers
Shumpert / J.R.
LeBron / Jones
Love / Thompson
Mozgov / Varejao / Birdman

Thompson and Varejao can both play PF and C in stretches as well.

[Meticode]

The words "Mario Chalmers" and "good trade for Cleveland" have no business being in the same sentence. He is garbage and are you really in this big of a rush to land a backup PG? Cavs are gonna run away with the East next year with Love, Irving and Varejao healthy...so you've got time.

Develop Delly...there's a lot potential there and he's still very young and looks to me like the kind of guy who will put in the work to improve his shooting and his dribbling. He's also going to have to bump up his conditioning and be ready for those 30-40 minute nights when Kyrie inevitably suffers another injury.
Nothing more needs to be said. You pretty much in two small paragraphs contradicted yourself about important players being healthy then inevitably being injured then the Cavs being in the same position they were in the Finals.

I honestly don't see Delly improving that much. I love Delly, but he's just too much of a liability on offense a lot of times.

[Kingwillball]

Cavs can do better. WAY better.

Much rather have Mo Williams.

[ArbitraryWater]

The words "Mario Chalmers" and "good trade for Cleveland" have no business being in the same sentence. He is garbage and are you really in this big of a rush to land a backup PG? Cavs are gonna run away with the East next year with Love, Irving (hopefully) and Varejao (hopefully) healthy...so you've got time.

Develop Delly...there's a lot potential there and he's still very young and looks to me like the kind of guy who will put in the work to improve his shooting and his dribbling. He's also going to have to bump up his conditioning and be ready for those 30-40 minute nights when Kyrie inevitably suffers another injury.

Delly won't improve lol, he will continue to be this way.. aka worst backup PG in the league level.. really had me fooled for one night with that 20 pt game though :lol

[RedBlackAttack]

Much rather have Mo Williams.
Despite his age, Mo Williams would be a far greater upgrade as a backup PG than Chalmers. Mo has his physical limitations. He is never going to be a defensive stopper or a guy that you want to rely on too much. But, he does have a clear skill that the Cavs lacked from that position off of the bench in the playoffs. He is a knock-down shooter, a good all-around scorer and certainly a far better playmaker than Chalmers.

He would give us something we don't currently have on the roster. Obviously, he wouldn't be a long-term answer and I'm not even advocating that move, but I'd take him all day over Chalmers.

[DukeDelonte13]

I disagree about the big and so do tons of fans on RealCavsFans.com. Even with Varejao being the 4th big on the in the rotation with Mozgov, Thompson and Love if they all come back, you can't depend on Varejao to not be injured anymore.

You can never have too many big bodies in the NBA.


cavs need big wings more than bigs.

Shump + Lebron, JR is a maybe, and that's it.

[DukeDelonte13]

Despite his age, Mo Williams would be a far greater upgrade as a backup PG than Chalmers. Mo has his physical limitations. He is never going to be a defensive stopper or a guy that you want to rely on too much. But, he does have a clear skill that the Cavs lacked from that position off of the bench in the playoffs. He is a knock-down shooter, a good all-around scorer and certainly a far better playmaker than Chalmers.

He would give us something we don't currently have on the roster. Obviously, he wouldn't be a long-term answer and I'm not even advocating that move, but I'd take him all day over Chalmers.


i'd take him over chalmers but his lack of D and his playoff choking history are 2 things being glossed over by cavs fans gushing over this guy's return.

I have fond memories of Mo but i'll never forget how he stunk it up in the playoffs.

[fragokota]

Get it done Pat!!!

[Meticode]

cavs need big wings more than bigs..
I agree.

[Meticode]

I'm not sure my stance on Mo Williams. I think I agree with RedBlackAttack on this post about him.

[Derka]

Nothing more needs to be said. You pretty much in two small paragraphs contradicted yourself about important players being healthy then inevitably being injured then the Cavs being in the same position they were in the Finals.

I honestly don't see Delly improving that much. I love Delly, but he's just too much of a liability on offense a lot of times.

If injuries are going to continue to be a thing for Kyrie, I think Delly's smart enough to see his opportunity to get more burn is upon him; he'll put the work in to get better and even if he only improves marginally, he's *still* a better option than Mario Chalmers...especially at the expense of even a late 1st rounder. Chalmers' defense is only going to worsen as he gets over 30 and he's proven year after year that he's capable of wildly inconsistent shooting and epic-level boner plays at the worst times. You guys don't need a second JR Smith.

Now, if you can pry Birdman away from Miami for when Varejao inevitably gets hurt again? I'd do that in a heartbeat.

[Meticode]

If injuries are going to continue to be a thing for Kyrie, I think Delly's smart enough to see his opportunity to get more burn is upon him; he'll put the work in to get better and even if he only improves marginally, he's *still* a better option than Mario Chalmers...especially at the expense of even a late 1st rounder. Chalmers' defense is only going to worsen as he gets over 30 and he's proven year after year that he's capable of wildly inconsistent shooting and epic-level boner plays at the worst times. You guys don't need a second JR Smith.

Now, if you can pry Birdman away from Miami for when Varejao inevitably gets hurt again? I'd do that in a heartbeat.
I don't see him improving, ever.

[Kingwillball]

cavs need big wings more than bigs.

Shump + Lebron, JR is a maybe, and that's it.

I feel same way I'm more than confortable having TT, love, mozgod,Andy V as the big rotation knowing lebron can play PF if they need it. I rather have a 6"8 3 and D guy than Birdman as 5th big..

[Meticode]

I feel same way I'm more than confortable having TT, love, mozgod,Andy V as the big rotation knowing lebron can play PF if they need it. I rather have a 6"8 3 and D guy than Birdman as 5th big..
I agree, my focus on the whole trade has been Chalmers. Most people feel he's a downgrade, I disagree because of his years with LeBrong and how much better he shot with him on the team.

[aj1987]

Looking at Chalmers' stats and justifying that he's not awful won't work. Any Heat fan can tell you by watching games.

He constantly drives to the hoop to either get stripped, blocked, throw up a horrible shot, or make a horrible pass that results in a turnover. He dribbles baseline to step out of bounds all the time. He complains to the refs all the time. He constantly committs stupid or costly fouls.

Many times he had Wade or Lebron and instead of running the offense through them he ran the shotclock out to make a horrible decision.

The amount of bone headed/stupid plays he makes is unmeasurable. No other player has made me want to rip my hair out of my head that bad.

Hes horrible.
This is a man who actually watches the games. :applause: :applause:

Chalmers is quite possibly the dumbest PG in the league. Still, he's an upgrade over Delly.

[DukeDelonte13]

I feel same way I'm more than confortable having TT, love, mozgod,Andy V as the big rotation knowing lebron can play PF if they need it. I rather have a 6"8 3 and D guy than Birdman as 5th big..


problem is every NBA team wants those players badly. They are coveted.

[GimmeThat]

it's not a bad trade. if Cavs lose Marion, Anderson isn't a bad option in at the very least replacing up to 10 minutes of that.

In this particular perspective, Mike Miller's role actually coincides with Chalmers

If you want to play Chalmers, then certainly Miller's ability to shoot coincides with Anderson.

unless you also lose out on James Jones and let Chalmers/Miller fill in those roles.


then I certainly hope this is a move in shedding salary. then Brandon Wright could fill in that back court nicely, with length.

[Rose'sACL]

Is meticode retarded?

[Kingwillball]

I agree, my focus on the whole trade has been Chalmers. Most people feel he's a downgrade, I disagree because of his years with LeBrong and how much better he shot with him on the team.

Chalmers could be a solid backup as long as he accepts that role. As a starter could not stand him as a backup he could thrive on cavs. Still know much like jR smith u have to live with bonehead plays but he is easily capable of exploding for 20 points as well.

[Meticode]

Is meticode retarded?
I think we're all retarded in some ways. Whether it's ignorance, of stupidity, or a defect. We all retard ourselves.

[Meticode]

it's not a bad trade. if Cavs lose Marion, Anderson isn't a bad option in at the very least replacing up to 10 minutes of that.

In this particular perspective, Mike Miller's role actually coincides with Chalmers

If you want to play Chalmers, then certainly Miller's ability to shoot coincides with Anderson.

unless you also lose out on James Jones and let Chalmers/Miller fill in those roles.


then I certainly hope this is a move in shedding salary. then Brandon Wright could fill in that back court nicely, with length.
They should be, after the Finals Marion reconfirmed he's retiring. Unless he changes his mind, which is always a possibility.

[Rose'sACL]

I think we're all retarded in some ways. Whether it's ignorance, of stupidity, or a defect. We all retard ourselves.
so you're a hipster too.

[Meticode]

so you're a hipster too.
I'm me, I try not to label people. I think it just retards the process of getting to know each other and living through each other because then we're already putting expectations on someone who we don't even know. It's pretty ****ing shallow. And the way our society works just perpetuates that.

[Derka]

Is meticode retarded?
Because how f*cking dare someone have an opinion and defend it against the consensus, amirite?

ISH: Where "Every Difference of Opinion Requires Petulant, Ad Hominem Name Calling" Happens

[RedBlackAttack]

i'd take him over chalmers but his lack of D and his playoff choking history are 2 things being glossed over by cavs fans gushing over this guy's return.

I have fond memories of Mo but i'll never forget how he stunk it up in the playoffs.
I'm not gushing over him. I hope we are able to do better. But one thing I will say in Mo's defense regarding his playoff problems with us back when... there's a big difference between failing as a 2nd or 3rd option and coming off the bench as a 5th/6th option.

Teams were game planning to take Mo away back then. He was an integral part of our offense. When you have not just LeBron James, but also Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, JR Smith, Mozgov, Shump, TT, etc. to occupy your defense, things can open up for a backup coming off the bench with Mo's ability to shoot/score/playmake.

Again, he isn't a guy I'm dying to reacquire, but he would also be a pretty damn good backup PG especially if we also retain Delly... who can then focus strictly on being a defensive specialist/motor guy.

[chips93]

if we had the 24th pick, according to draftexpress' latest mock draft, justin anderson, or jonathon holmes would both be still available.

id definitely rather have either of them (both big physical small forwards who can shoot 3s, anderson is more athletic, while holmes is taller, a little more polished imo, and more capable of playing the 4) than chalmers.

although his current mock has us taking montrez harrell instead of those two guys, even though we dont need anymore bigs.

if rondae hollis jefferson, or kevon looney slipped a couple spots too, both of those guys could fit also.

there's 4 guys with potential to be legitimate 3&D players all in the range that we are drafting. id rather have any of those 4 than chalmers.

[RedBlackAttack]

if we had the 24th pick, according to draftexpress' latest mock draft, justin anderson, or jonathon holmes would both be still available.

id definitely rather have either of them (both big physical small forwards who can shoot 3s, anderson is more athletic, while holmes is taller, a little more polished imo, and more capable of playing the 4) than chalmers.

although his current mock has us taking montrez harrell instead of those two guys, even though we dont need anymore bigs.

if rondae hollis jefferson, or kevon looney slipped a couple spots too, both of those guys could fit also.

there's 4 guys with potential to be legitimate 3&D players all in the range that we are drafting. id rather have any of those 4 than chalmers.
Completely agree. The Spurs have maintained their power by picking up cheap options who were tossed away by short-sighted franchises and continuing to add talent via the draft. I'm all for packaging the pick and Haywood's contract if it is for something that really improves the team, but I would never just desperately hand it away. There have been a lot of quality players selected in that range over the years.

[Derka]

if we had the 24th pick, according to draftexpress' latest mock draft, justin anderson, or jonathon holmes would both be still available.

id definitely rather have either of them (both big physical small forwards who can shoot 3s, anderson is more athletic, while holmes is taller, a little more polished imo, and more capable of playing the 4) than chalmers.

although his current mock has us taking montrez harrell instead of those two guys, even though we dont need anymore bigs.

if rondae hollis jefferson, or kevon looney slipped a couple spots too, both of those guys could fit also.

there's 4 guys with potential to be legitimate 3&D players all in the range that we are drafting. id rather have any of those 4 than chalmers.

Not a Cavs fan at all, but I like everything you've said here.

Edit: love that there's a guy named Jon Holmes in the draft

[DMAVS41]

I'm not gushing over him. I hope we are able to do better. But one thing I will say in Mo's defense regarding his playoff problems with us back when... there's a big difference between failing as a 2nd or 3rd option and coming off the bench as a 5th/6th option.

Teams were game planning to take Mo away back then. He was an integral part of our offense. When you have not just LeBron James, but also Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, JR Smith, Mozgov, Shump, TT, etc. to occupy your defense, things can open up for a backup coming off the bench with Mo's ability to shoot/score/playmake.

Again, he isn't a guy I'm dying to reacquire, but he would also be a pretty damn good backup PG especially if we also retain Delly... who can then focus strictly on being a defensive specialist/motor guy.


Bingo. Very few players can play at an optimal level in any role on a team.

You make Mo Williams the 2nd option on offense...in the playoffs....and it's not going to be great. You take him off the ball a bit and play him in a bench role...and I think he'll do very nicely.

The dude can shoot. He's pure. Time and time again we see how valuable those type players are around Lebron.

While I do think he isn't a great defender, he's also not terrible. He played huge minutes on those Cavs teams that were excellent on defense. So at the very least he can fit in and do his job on a good defense...he's proven that.

He's also not that old...I bet he would thrive in a situation like this. I'd much rather have him than Chalmers.

[DMAVS41]

if we had the 24th pick, according to draftexpress' latest mock draft, justin anderson, or jonathon holmes would both be still available.

id definitely rather have either of them (both big physical small forwards who can shoot 3s, anderson is more athletic, while holmes is taller, a little more polished imo, and more capable of playing the 4) than chalmers.

although his current mock has us taking montrez harrell instead of those two guys, even though we dont need anymore bigs.

if rondae hollis jefferson, or kevon looney slipped a couple spots too, both of those guys could fit also.

there's 4 guys with potential to be legitimate 3&D players all in the range that we are drafting. id rather have any of those 4 than chalmers.


Bingo. Chalmers is not moving the needle. You aren't going to win or lose a title based on him. And he seems to be a bit of a head case.

You get lucky in the draft at 24? It could absolutely move the needle for years to come.

Keep the pick unless you get a proven guy that fills a need.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Mo Williams was great last year for Charlotte, I think he'd bring a lot to the Cavs, (or any contender needing bench scoring) as a backup PG.

[DMAVS41]

I mentioned this earlier, but what about a deal with the Blazers?

I bet the Blazers would rather have cap space over Batum's 11 million this year. I'm not sure Batum is in their long term plans with or without Lamarcus.

Blake just opted in.

So you could do Haywood, 24th pick, Joe Harris for Batum/Blake.

Depends on what the Blazers are trying to do, but if Batum isn't in their plans past this year...that's a pretty good haul...and they can get it done before free agency so they have more cap room to work with to try and keep Lamarcus.

Not sure if the Blazers would listen, but it's worth a call....Batum/Blake would be great fits imo.

[protox]

For Gay. Kings shopping for salary relief for Rondo. :lol Perfect backup for James and let Smith go.

[RedBlackAttack]

I mentioned this earlier, but what about a deal with the Blazers?

I bet the Blazers would rather have cap space over Batum's 11 million this year. I'm not sure Batum is in their long term plans with or without Lamarcus.

Blake just opted in.

So you could do Haywood, 24th pick, Joe Harris for Batum/Blake.

Depends on what the Blazers are trying to do, but if Batum isn't in their plans past this year...that's a pretty good haul...and they can get it done before free agency so they have more cap room to work with to try and keep Lamarcus.

Not sure if the Blazers would listen, but it's worth a call....Batum/Blake would be great fits imo.
That idea has been floated on some Cavs forums that I'm on. Batum would be a near ideal fit on this team despite his struggles last year. Our defense would be off the charts and the versatility with the different lineups would be crazy.

Problem is, it's a serious longshot and feels a little like a homer deal that deluded Lakers or Knicks fans would toss out there.

The only way something like that would be possible, imo, is if LMA left this summer and the Blazers went head-on into rebuild mode.

[DukeDelonte13]

I'm not gushing over him. I hope we are able to do better. But one thing I will say in Mo's defense regarding his playoff problems with us back when... there's a big difference between failing as a 2nd or 3rd option and coming off the bench as a 5th/6th option.

Teams were game planning to take Mo away back then. He was an integral part of our offense. When you have not just LeBron James, but also Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, JR Smith, Mozgov, Shump, TT, etc. to occupy your defense, things can open up for a backup coming off the bench with Mo's ability to shoot/score/playmake.

Again, he isn't a guy I'm dying to reacquire, but he would also be a pretty damn good backup PG especially if we also retain Delly... who can then focus strictly on being a defensive specialist/motor guy.


not saying you or meticode, or really any specific cavs fan on this site are gushing or dying to have him at all. Just a general consensus from a lot of other cavs fans across more mainstream communities.

ISH cavs fans IMO are much more knowledgeable fans.

[DMAVS41]

That idea has been floated on some Cavs forums that I'm on. Batum would be a near ideal fit on this team despite his struggles last year. Our defense would be off the charts and the versatility with the different lineups would be crazy.

Problem is, it's a serious longshot and feels a little like a homer deal that deluded Lakers or Knicks fans would toss out there.

The only way something like that would be possible, imo, is if LMA left this summer and the Blazers went head-on into rebuild mode.

I'm not sure about it being a "homer deal" to be honest.

Unless I'm wrong about the timing. Couldn't they make that trade...then the Blazers waive Haywood...and it frees up the 12 million or whatever for their cap and they can use that in free agency?

If I'm wrong on that...then this trade won't happen obviously.

But if the Blazers can move Batum/Blake for 12 million of cap space, Joe Harris, and the 24th pick.

Honestly, rebuild or not, that is a great deal for them.

Because if they're smart...they'd be worried about Batum having a big year and having to pay him a ton in the summer of 2016...and they won't want to do that. He's already making 11 million a year...if he has a good year...he's not taking a cut...and even in the new cap...no way is Batum worth 15 million a year or whatever his price will be if he's good next year.

A lot does depend on LMA, but is just bringing back the same group with Matthews coming off the injury enough to keep him there? If he's legit thinking about leaving...I can't imagine that's enough. But more cap to make moves, and getting another first rounder (to be used in a trade at the draft..at least that is what I'd do...I'd package the 23 and the 24 for something)...now that is something that might get him on board.

Again, have no idea what the Blazers plans are, but turning Batum/Blake into 12 million of cap and a first rounder is a great deal for them imo...i'm just not sure about the timing of all this and if that is possible.

[chips93]

batum would be the best possible return, but i dont think portland would just cut ties with him like that.

he hasnt really lived up to his potential, but he has still been a really good player, and i dont think they just give up on him for cap space and a pick.

fwiw with batum they have 32 million in salary next year, presuming they think they can keep lamarcus for about 20, they still have like 10 million in space, to sign matthews.

i think if i were running the blazers, i would just try keep the same group together. stotts has talked a lot about continuity and how just keeping the same group together, they build chemistry, and can make leaps that others wouldnt expect.

i think they just bring back the same guys, and hope that young guys like lillard, mccollum, and leonard improve, chemistry improves, maybe make a couple small pickups here and there, get lucky with injuries and they are contending.

i dont think its very likely that they become contenders, but its worth a shot.

its more likely than becoming contenders by cutting batum, and trying to attract free agents, which they havent had much luck with.

[DMAVS41]

batum would be the best possible return, but i dont think portland would just cut ties with him like that.

he hasnt really lived up to his potential, but he has still been a really good player, and i dont think they just give up on him for cap space and a pick.

fwiw with batum they have 32 million in salary next year, presuming they think they can keep lamarcus for about 20, they still have like 10 million in space, to sign matthews.

i think if i were running the blazers, i would just try keep the same group together. stotts has talked a lot about continuity and how just keeping the same group together, they build chemistry, and can make leaps that others wouldnt expect.

i think they just bring back the same guys, and hope that young guys like lillard, mccollum, and leonard improve, chemistry improves, maybe make a couple small pickups here and there, get lucky with injuries and they are contending.

i dont think its very likely that they become contenders, but its worth a shot.

its more likely than becoming contenders by cutting batum, and trying to attract free agents, which they havent had much luck with.


Perhaps, I don't hate that approach, but I don't love it either.

I'd just hate to be putting a team out there in which I don't think can win the title as presently constructed. Obviously things can change and there is no real rush, but right now? Just don't think that group is winning anything.

Also, you have to think about next summer. Batum expires after 2016. So the Blazers have to make that decision now essentially. They have to be willing to keep him even if he demands a high price.

That was more what I was talking about. Like...is Batum in the long term plans on this team? If so...then yea...don't make the move. If you are unsure and don't really know? Then listen to trade offers.

I'm just not sure that core is good enough to win a title.

[BallsOut]

I mentioned this earlier, but what about a deal with the Blazers?

I bet the Blazers would rather have cap space over Batum's 11 million this year. I'm not sure Batum is in their long term plans with or without Lamarcus.

Blake just opted in.

So you could do Haywood, 24th pick, Joe Harris for Batum/Blake.

Depends on what the Blazers are trying to do, but if Batum isn't in their plans past this year...that's a pretty good haul...and they can get it done before free agency so they have more cap room to work with to try and keep Lamarcus.

Not sure if the Blazers would listen, but it's worth a call....Batum/Blake would be great fits imo.

Wow you must be smoking if you think Blazers would rather have cap space over Batum. He had an off year but after Wesley Matthews went down with the torn achilles heel, Batum's stock rose for them. There's no way Blazers give Matthews the max which means they will have a huge hole at the wing. I can't imagine them letting go of two of their best wing defenders in one offseason. This is the same type of homer deal you had tried to advocate last year with the Buck's Larry Sanders and we all saw how ridiculous that proposal was :oldlol:

Let's be real. Mario Chalmers + Chris Anderson for the 24th pick and Haywood's expiring contract is a much better and more realistic deal for the Cavs.

[BallsOut]

one way they can do that is to trade Andersen/Chalmers to the Cavs for Haywood's $10 contract + the 24th pick.

Haywood + future draft pick for Mario Chalmers and Chris Anderson

This would be a great deal for both teams.

Cavs get two playoff rotation players that play well with Lebron. Miami saves some money.

PG: Irving | Chalmers | Delladova
SG: Shumpert | Williams | Harris
SF: Lebron | JR Smith | Jones
PF: Love | Thompson | Miller
C: Mozgov | Verajao | Anderson

That is a deep roster :eek:

[BallsOut]

Haywood + future draft pick for Mario Chalmers and Chris Anderson

This would be a great deal for both teams.

Cavs get two playoff rotation players that play well with Lebron. Miami saves some money.

PG: Irving | Chalmers | Delladova
SG: Shumpert | Williams | Harris
SF: Lebron | JR Smith | Jones
PF: Love | Thompson | Miller
C: Mozgov | Verajao | Anderson

That is a deep roster :eek:

:biggums:

[J Shuttlesworth]

quoting yourself:biggums:

[DMAVS41]

Wow you must be smoking if you think Blazers would rather have cap space over Batum. He had an off year but after Wesley Matthews went down with the torn achilles heel, Batum's stock rose for them. There's no way Blazers give Matthews the max which means they will have a huge hole at the wing. I can't imagine them letting go of two of their best wing defenders in one offseason. This is the same type of homer deal you had tried to advocate last year with the Buck's Larry Sanders and we all saw how ridiculous that proposal was :oldlol:

Let's be real. Mario Chalmers + Chris Anderson for the 24th pick and Haywood's expiring contract is a much better and more realistic deal for the Cavs.

ROFL...still think it's crazy?

Dude...writing was on the wall...Batum was gone and it made a lot of sense.

Good for Blazers though...they got back a damn good return for him...better than I thought they would.

[2swift4u]

This is an excellent trade for both teams and especially the Cavs. Chalmers and Birdman bring championship experience to the Cavalier squad.

PG: Irving | Delly
SG: JR Smith | Chalmers
SF: Lebron | Shumpert | Miller
PF: Love | Thompson | Marion
C: Mozgov | Verajao | Birdman | Perkins

:eek: :bowdown:

As far as I know Marion is gone, or isn't he? The Cavs don't need Birdman. They could use another PG in case Irving gets injured again (which is likely). However Chalmers wouldn't be my first (or second, or third...) choice.

[Kingwillball]

As far as I know Marion is gone, or isn't he? The Cavs don't need Birdman. They could use another PG in case Irving gets injured again (which is likely). However Chalmers wouldn't be my first (or second, or third...) choice.

Marion is retiring and They already picked up MO Williams keep up with current events.

[2swift4u]

Marion is retiring and They already picked up MO Williams keep up with current events.

by gone I meant retired but you're right I totally forgot about Mo for a moment because he wasn't on BallsOut's list.