Celtics offered 6 picks for Hornets #9 pick last night hoping to land Winslow

[ortonsaw]

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2507717-celtics-reportedly-offered-hornets-6-picks-to-move-up-in-2015-nba-draft?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national?is_shared=true

[bballnoob1192]

MJ stays Losing SMGH

[DaSeba5]

Thanks MJ, that's why we hang your jersey on the rafters.

[alanLA92]

Was Jordan looking at his 6 rings for too long to pull the trigger. :lol

[bballnoob1192]

Was Jordan looking at his 6 rings for too long to pull the trigger. :lol
http://i.imgur.com/m3kDgfs.png

[HurricaneKid]

Ford tweeted before the draft that Kaminsky was climbing and had a promise at 9. Which means if Char ever wanted a FA ever again they had to uphold their promise to Frank and his agent.

[bdreason]

What's funny is that MJ probably thought Ainge was moving up to try and 'steal' Kaminsky. :oldlol:

[wang4three]

Ford tweeted before the draft that Kaminsky was climbing and had a promise at 9. Which means if Char ever wanted a FA ever again they had to uphold their promise to Frank and his agent.

Pretty sure those promises get broken all the time.

[noob cake]

The only logical explanation was that MJ promised Kaminsky.

Winslow was considered a 4-6th ranked prospect by most scouts. 1-3th ranked prospect by most models.

[HurricaneKid]

Pretty sure those promises get broken all the time.

Then you are WRONG. A FO is only as good as its word. Boozer screwed the cavs over 11 years ago and its still brought up all the time. So many of these transactions have to be staggered and signed in the right order so you HAVE to be able to trust that agreed upon things end up happening or no agent will ever speak with you again.

[noob cake]

MJ rejected this for Kaminsky


16th pick this year
28th pick this year
2016 Nets 1st round pick (probably a 12-18th pick)
2016 Wolves 2nd round pick (probably 31-35ish pick)
2017 Wolves 2nd round pick (probably 31-35ish pick)

[HurricaneKid]

MJ rejected this for Kaminsky


16th pick this year
28th pick this year
2016 Nets 1st round pick (probably a 12-18th pick)
2016 Wolves 2nd round pick (probably 31-35ish pick)
2017 Wolves 2nd round pick (probably 31-35ish pick)


You think the Wolves in 2 years are among the worst 5 teams in the league?

Zero top 15 picks... Not that big a deal at all...

[noob cake]

You think the Wolves in 2 years are among the worst 5 teams in the league?

Zero top 15 picks... Not that big a deal at all...

10 losing seasons in a row. Wiggins is a role player. Towns TBD. Probably still will be tanking it up with the 76ers in 2 years.

[PJR]

I wouldn't even trade Justice Winslow for the package either.

[RRR3]

I wouldn't even trade Justice Winslow for the package either.
Hopefully he will be a Kawhi Leonard type player :applause:


Can't wait to see him play!

[wang4three]

Then you are WRONG. A FO is only as good as its word. Boozer screwed the cavs over 11 years ago and its still brought up all the time. So many of these transactions have to be staggered and signed in the right order so you HAVE to be able to trust that agreed upon things end up happening or no agent will ever speak with you again.

Just from my personal work experience in a multi-billion dollar industry, promises are almost always worth nothing. Nothing is concrete until it's made legal and on paper. Boozer screwing the Cavs is a glorified ordeal, but neither he nor the Cavs have been made worse because of it. Boozer from that point still had other teams sign and trade for him and the Cavs just went to the Finals. I don't think this proves your case at all.

You really think other FA are not going to sign with a team if the team is willing to throw a boat load of money again? Really? They would forget the past so fast. Agents, who make their living out of deals, are just going to just say, "No, because you screwed me before, I'm not going to come back to the table ever?" Out of principle? While it leaves salty tastes on people's mouths, the team has more power cause they control the money. No one is going to be like "You didn't keep your promise to Frank Kaminsky, so I'm walking away from you." Especially when people realize what compelled Jordan to do so.

These promises are like soft verbals in the college scene. Until they sign the letter of intent, the player can change his mind at any point.

[HurricaneKid]

Just from my personal work experience in a multi-billion dollar industry, promises are almost always worth nothing. Nothing is concrete until it's made legal and on paper. Boozer screwing the Cavs is a glorified ordeal, but neither he nor the Cavs have been made worse because of it. Boozer from that point still had other teams sign and trade for him and the Cavs just went to the Finals. I don't think this proves your case at all.

You really think other FA are not going to sign with a team if the team is willing to throw a boat load of money again? Really? They would forget the past so fast. Agents, who make their living out of deals, are just going to just say, "No, because you screwed me before, I'm not going to come back to the table ever?" Out of principle? While it leaves salty tastes on people's mouths, the team has more power cause they control the money. No one is going to be like "You didn't keep your promise to Frank Kaminsky, so I'm walking away from you." Especially when people realize what compelled Jordan to do so.

These promises are like soft verbals in the college scene. Until they sign the letter of intent, the player can change his mind at any point.

Yes, not only do I "believe" that but when Kirilenko lobbed the accusation at Hinkie last year Hinkie vehemently denied it and went on the attack because he knew it would be his death knell.

So much of who signs where is tied into relationships with agents. Agreements are made all the time in advance of contracts being signed. If you make an agreement and a player stops negotiating with other suitors and then you fall into a "better deal" you cannot renege. And those that would are left behind. Because the structure of the CBA FORCES you to be true to your word.

Its why Houston allowed Chandler Parsons to walk away from a season he was going to get paid 800k (possibly the best deal in the league) to go to a rival where he made 15M. He shares an agent with D12 and the deal was if they got Dwight there they would give Parsons the out a year early. You think his agent considered that a "soft" "letter of intent" contract? Do you think he would negotiate with Morey ever again if he screwed his client out of 95% of his salary?

[SwishSquared]

FO should have avoided promising anything to a player when at #9. Just take Winslow in that scenario. If you wanted Frank, trade down a few spots. Still, Winslow's upside is too much to pass in that scenario imo. They drafted Vonleh last year b/c he dropped. Now they change course?

Also, Boston's offer wasn't as good as it sounds on the surface. #16 + #28 in this draft, Brooklyn's pick next season (valuable pick actually), Minnesota's protected first (which is basically 2016/2017 second round picks), and two more 2nd-rounders. They could have package 16/28 to move up for Frank and hoped Brooklyn would be terrible next season.

I also think this is a cautionary tale why people shouldn't trade for a vet on an expiring contract before the draft. Had they known Winslow would drop to them, would they still do the deal, esp since they took on more salary?

Some people have discussed playing small with Batum/MKG at the 3/4. Take Winslow, sign shooters in FA, and attempt to play small ball with your young guys. Charlotte will be like an 8th seed at best now, lose Batum next summer, and Rich Cho will be fired.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Would have loved to have Winslow. But even without that trade the Cs could have gotten Dekker. I'm not saying the Cs shouldn't draft whoever they think is the best player but there are way too many pg-sized combo guards on this team. If it's about value is Rozier valued over Dekker? I doubt that.

[wang4three]

Yes, not only do I "believe" that but when Kirilenko lobbed the accusation at Hinkie last year Hinkie vehemently denied it and went on the attack because he knew it would be his death knell.

So much of who signs where is tied into relationships with agents. Agreements are made all the time in advance of contracts being signed. If you make an agreement and a player stops negotiating with other suitors and then you fall into a "better deal" you cannot renege. And those that would are left behind. Because the structure of the CBA FORCES you to be true to your word.

Its why Houston allowed Chandler Parsons to walk away from a season he was going to get paid 800k (possibly the best deal in the league) to go to a rival where he made 15M. He shares an agent with D12 and the deal was if they got Dwight there they would give Parsons the out a year early. You think his agent considered that a "soft" "letter of intent" contract? Do you think he would negotiate with Morey ever again if he screwed his client out of 95% of his salary?

Felt a reason to bump this to illustrate to you that verbals don't mean very little till a person signs a contract. You think Cuban is going to close his doors to Dan Fegan and all his players now?

Also saw this article (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=13226439&ex_cid=espnapi_internal)about how the Suns had a verbal agreement to a trade with GSW for Stephen Curry, but then GSW reneged on the deal. This shit happens all the time. Teams promising things and never coming through. It's how corporate America works.