In retrospect, how horrible was Lebron's Finals?

[masonanddixon]

He played no defense. Made another role player into FMVP.

Took 40 shots a game to score 35 points.

Froze out his teammates.

Failed to come through in the clutch yet again.

[dubeta]

Peak Shaq herald as 'GOAT' finals performer

36/14/3 on 57% TS




LeBrons finals

36/13/9 on 47% TS



Hmm objectively it was probably the most dominating finals performance in NBA History

[masonanddixon]

Peak Shaq herald as 'GOAT' finals performer

36/14/3 on 57% TS




LeBrons finals

36/13/9 on 47% TS



Hmm objectively it was probably the most dominating finals performance in NBA History

Stats are so worthless.

[Andrei89]

Only reason they won 2 games against this All Time great team is because of Lebron's all time play.

[masonanddixon]

Only reason they won 2 games against this All Time great team is because of Lebron's all time play.

Warriors are the worst champion of all time

[Spurs m8]

Quite horrible.

It was evident at the time, people are just stupid and follow the hype

[Trollsmasher]

just turrible

I mean if you take Bran out and let Delly handle the rock with Tristan posting up and Shumpert drivingdown the lane (one of the best finishers I have ever seen imo), the Cavs win in 5

[D-Wait]

just turrible

I mean if you take Bran out and let Delly handle the rock with Tristan posting up and Shumpert drivingdown the lane (one of the best finishers I have ever seen imo), the Cavs win in 5

:lol I see what you did there... Hopefully that dude works on his layups in the offseason

[4 Inches]

I think it was great.
I got shown on national television :banana:

[aj1987]

I think it was great.
I got shown on national television :banana:
You should probably change your location to LeBron James's pants now.

[knicksman]

Only reason they won 2 games against this All Time great team is because of Lebron's all time play.

More like gs are having 1st time jitters. Same with boston in 2008

[Rose'sACL]

More like gs are having 1st time jitters. Same with boston in 2008
but the warriors won the 1st game. they lost game 2 and 3.

[fiddy]

On top of everything did not get called for tens of offensive fouls :facepalm

[MP.Trey]

On top of everything did not get called for tens of offensive fouls :facepalm
Didn't get called for getting fouled tens of times either. The officiating was all-time level bad in that series, Warriors were allowed to box out with their hands and set moving screens on literally every possession while LeBron got the benefit on some push offs and travels.

Anyone who doesn't think LeBron had a great series is blindly hating. It wasn't legendary because of his inefficiency but he's the only reason we even won a game, much less was in every single game except game 4.

[fiddy]

Didn't get called for getting fouled tens of times either. The officiating was all-time level bad in that series, Warriors were allowed to box out with their hands and set moving screens on literally every possession while LeBron got the benefit on some push offs and travels.

Dude went on a massacre with his off hand.

[SexSymbol]

He was horrendous defensively and at least pretty bad offensively.
He was good rebounding and above average setting up his teammates.
It's a B performance if I ever see one, not terrible, but he could've done a lot better

[Trollsmasher]

He played no defense.

He was horrendous defensively

When did this become a meme?

[SexSymbol]

When did this become a meme?
a meme? It's true.
He left Iguodala wide open on purpose in G5 and G6 and he made him pay. On purpose, not even trying. One of the worst defensive outings ever in the finals if not the worst ever

[aj1987]

He was horrendous defensively and at least pretty bad offensively.
He was good rebounding and above average setting up his teammates.
It's a B performance if I ever see one, not terrible, but he could've done a lot better
That means you must rate 5 of Kobe's Finals performances C or under.


a meme? It's true.
He left Iguodala wide open on purpose in G5 and G6 and he made him pay. On purpose, not even trying. One of the worst defensive outings ever in the finals if not the worst ever
:oldlol:

Shows who actually saw the games.

[sd3035]

I couldn't believe how a person could choke so badly. He was afforded a different set of rules,(travels push-offs) along with single coverage, and still couldn't even shoot 40%

[Mr. Jabbar]

very.

Take out delly's heroics and its a 39% shooting sweep

[pegasus]

I couldn't believe how a person could choke so badly. He was afforded a different set of rules,(travels push-offs) along with single coverage, and still couldn't even shoot 40%
This. It was like he forgot how to shoot the ball. It was so ugly to watch. Even though I was very pleased with the final result, he really ruined the Finals for me. I never want to see him dribble the ball 20 seconds at a time and brick up a shot after shot. Kyrie needs to get the ball out of his hands.

[ShackEelOKneel]

Peak Shaq herald as 'GOAT' finals performer

36/14/3 on 57% TS




LeBrons finals

36/13/9 on 47% TS



Hmm objectively it was probably the most dominating finals performance in NBA History

Objectively, good one. :oldlol:

First of all, I don't know which Finals you are pulling Shaq's stats off, but he never averaged those numbers. Second, if you are going to use stats, don't only hand pick them to meet your agenda.

2000 Shaq:
38/17/2 on 58% TS with 3 blocks, 1 steal, and 2 turnovers

LeBron's Final:
36/13/9 on 48% TS with 1 block, 1 steal, and 4 turnovers

Shaq beats LeBron on everything except assists and they tie steals (due to rounding)

[Beastmode88]

Objectively, good one. :oldlol:

First of all, I don't know which Finals you are pulling Shaq's stats off, but he never averaged those numbers. Second, if you are going to use stats, don't only hand pick them to meet your agenda.

2000 Shaq:
38/17/2 on 58% TS with 3 blocks, 1 steal, and 2 turnovers

LeBron's Final:
36/13/9 on 48% TS with 1 block, 1 steal, and 4 turnovers

Shaq beats LeBron on everything except assists and they tie steals (due to rounding)

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Megabox!]

It was the best/worst finals ever. Shot like complete shit but played hard, incredible, inspiring basketball with a depleted team against all odds

[riseagainst]

Peak Shaq herald as 'GOAT' finals performer

36/14/3 on 57% TS




LeBrons finals

36/13/9 on 47% TS



Hmm objectively it was probably the most dominating finals performance in NBA History


:lol
:roll:

let's see, a 10% difference in TS, like a 18% difference in FG%. IDK man. Not close at all.

he put alot of effort, however, probably a top 5 performance all time in terms of how hard they tried.

[Droid101]

Peak Shaq herald as 'GOAT' finals performer

36/14/3 on 57% TS




LeBrons finals

36/13/9 on 47% TS



Hmm objectively it was probably the most dominating finals performance in NBA History
Shaq was triple and quadruple teamed any time he touched the ball.

bran was on an island against a bench player.

You decide!

[Wally450]

More like gs are having 1st time jitters. Same with boston in 2008

They were a decent Stephen Curry game away from going up 2-0.


On the subject, what do you expect from a guy who had to do it all like LeBron did. GS knew he was going to take 35+ shots and defended him great. Its a surprise they won the 2 games they did AFTER Kyrie went down.

[Kblaze8855]

When I hear anyone the least bit involved with or experienced in the game of basketball tell me it was terrible I'll start to consider that maybe my eyes play tricks on me. For now I'm going to assume they saw what I saw because of the multitude of coaches players and Hall of Famers who seem convinced he was somewhere between very good and unbelievably all-time great.

Haters on the internet aren't now and never have been worth listening to if you are actually trying to find the truth. You just kind of keep interacting with them because irrational haters are part of the fan experience.

But there is nothing to be gained by listening to people who think you put up 36 13 and 9 against the best team in the NBA with some of the least help to ever play on that level and you played horrible due to shooting percentages when the team literally shot 15% with you off the floor.

A rational person could come to the conclusion that it wasn't as great as the many people involved in the game suggested it was. But nobody trying to be the least bit reasonable could come to the conclusion it's literally playing poorly. Or even average.

Just a gang of people trolling online because apparently pretending to be a lot stupider than you are is entertaining when you get angry reactions.

[RRR3]

Shaq was triple and quadruple teamed any time he touched the ball.

bran was on an island against a bench player.

You decide!
Which left you know who wide open :D


"b-b-b-b-but Bran got single coverage!" :cry:

[Ne 1]

His 2015 Finals is being overrated by some. Other than sheer numbers, which were pretty empty if you put them into context it wasn't all that impressive. His 2012 Finals series was easily better.

Sure statistically, there is no denying how "wow" his numbers are at first glance. But shotting 28% outside of the restricted area is extremely inefficient basketball. Please just take the time to imagine that. 28%. He had the ball in his hands nearly all the time, therefore had all the time in the world to get into rhythm, and yet still shot 28% from outside 5 feet. 5 feet is literally a gather and layup. And when Iggy was draped all over him on the perimeter, he shot under 38% all the same.

Not only that but his fourth quarter performances. Do I even need to get into that? Even in the games where you can tell he was deliberately saving himself for the final stretch (games 5 and 6), he not only played terribly, he got absolutely outplayed by Curry AND Iggy. And the games were always close at some point in the 4th quarter, so they were always there for the taking IF LeBron took his team home. That fact is especially striking to me.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Pretty selfish and full of low IQ bball

Kerr showed that he feared the cavs shooters more than he feared Lebrons ISO game.

Lebron fell directly into the gameplan Kerr set.. Lebron of course refused to change the way the cavs ran their offense which made it extremely simple and easy for the warriors to defend the cavs.

Something else that isn't talked about as much is the fact that Lebrons inability to shoot and desire to have the entire floor spaced out for him to work with made it so that the cavs couldn't play TT & Mozgof together for long stretches..

Basically rendering the only advantage the cavs had over the warriors useless...

[RRR3]

Pretty selfish and full of low IQ bball

Kerr showed that he feared the cavs shooters more than he feared Lebrons ISO game.

Lebron fell directly into the gameplan Kerr set.. Lebron of course refused to change the way the cavs ran their offense which made it extremely simple and easy for the warriors to defend the cavs.

Something else that isn't talked about as much is the fact that Lebrons inability to shoot and desire to have the entire floor spaced out for him to work with made it so that the cavs couldn't play TT & Mozgof together for long stretches..

Basically rendering the only advantage the cavs had over the warriors useless...
:roll: :roll: :roll:


Jesus the things people tell themselves.

[TheMarkMadsen]

:roll: :roll: :roll:


Jesus the things people tell themselves.

Which part of that isn't true

[GIF REACTION]

The argument against him is that he could have done so much better EVEN though he put up the numbers...

Goes to show you how great this man is...

[RRR3]

Pretty selfish and full of low IQ ball

Opinion, and I disagree. He controlled the pace, which kept the games close and prevented the Warriors from playing their usual game. Also hypocritical of you to call him selfish when you're a fan of a player who plays similarly to the way he played in these finals.

Kerr showed that he feared the cavs shooters more than he feared Lebrons ISO game. What shooters? :oldlol: James Jones?

Lebron fell directly into the gameplan Kerr set.. Lebron of course refused to change the way the cavs ran their offense which made it extremely simple and easy for the warriors to defend the cavs.

Yeah, Warriors had such an easy time in the series :rolleyes:

Something else that isn't talked about as much is the fact that Lebrons inability to shoot and desire to have the entire floor spaced out for him to work with made it so that the cavs couldn't play TT & Mozgof together for long stretches..

LeBron can shoot, if you have followed his career. Not sure why he forgot how to shoot these playoffs (he certainly couldn't shoot in these playoffs I'll give you that) but in general he is a solid shooter, especially from 3.

Basically rendering the only advantage the cavs had over the warriors useless...
LeBron was their only advantage you troll

....

[Ne 1]

It was the best/worst finals ever. Shot like complete shit but played hard, incredible, inspiring basketball with a depleted team against all odds

Yeah, it reminded a lot of Iverson's 2001 Finals. They actually both averaged 35 ppg on 40% shooting.

LeBron had a 40%+ usage rate with a 5 foot cushion with isolation, 1 on 1 coverage the entire series and he shot 39.8% from the field and 28% outside 5 feet because his jumper is broken. Not to mention 68% from the FT line. If you play someone like Kobe, Durant or Melo like that, they'll go off for nearly 50+ a night. LeBron's offensive skill set is usually limited to bulldozing and streaky 3 point shooting. If neither one of those is happening then it's going to be a rough night for him.

Also, as usual he's escaping criticism from making his teammates noticeably worse on offense to play up the idea that he had "no help" especially on that side of the ball. But he had a 40+% usage rate in the finals and held the ball for at minimum 10 seconds out of each shot clock when he was on the floor. Tell me exactly who can play consistently offensively under those circumstances? This also goes into inflating his assist numbers too. I am not saying he had great supporting cast, but I am pretty sure if he utilized the bigs on this team (Mozgov and TT), it could've been a different story....

By having the ball in his hands for half the Cavs possessions, he stalls the flow of offense. Shooters like James Jones would normally have knocked down his jumpers. But shooters rely on rhythm, which Jones was obviously NOT in as he missed every single jumper he took in game 6. That's just one example. And anyone who watched his tenure in Miami know that as incredible as he is, his isolation tendency stalls good basketball.

The ball sticks and ends up in his hands. And in the biggest moments, when the ball is in his hands and the game is in his hands, he shrinks into inefficiency. As remarkable as his statistics are numerically, the inefficiency at which he achieves them costs him. We saw that when the ball stalled in Miami plenty of times. Yet, he praised the Spurs for their "Team basketball" after they dismantled the Heat.

[RRR3]

Yeah, it reminded a lot of Iverson's 2001 Finals. They actually both averaged 35 ppg on 40% shooting.

LeBron had a 40%+ usage rate with a 5 foot cushion with isolation, 1 on 1 coverage the entire series and he shot 39.8% from the field and 28% outside 5 feet because his jumper is broken. Not to mention 68% from the FT line. If you play someone like Kobe, Durant or Melo like that, they'll go off for nearly 50+ a night. LeBron's offensive skill set is usually limited to bulldozing and streaky 3 point shooting. If neither one of those is happening then it's going to be a rough night for him.

Also, as usual he's escaping criticism from making his teammates noticeably worse on offense to play up the idea that he had "no help" especially on that side of the ball. But he had a 40+% usage rate in the finals and held the ball for at minimum 10 seconds out of each shot clock when he was on the floor. Tell me exactly who can play consistently offensively under those circumstances? This also goes into inflating his assist numbers too. I am not saying he had great supporting cast, but I am pretty sure if he utilized the bigs on this team (Mozgov and TT), it could've been a different story....

By having the ball in his hands for half the Cavs possessions, he stalls the flow of offense. Shooters like James Jones would normally have knocked down his jumpers. But shooters rely on rhythm, which Jones was obviously NOT in as he missed every single jumper he took in game 6. That's just one example. And anyone who watched his tenure in Miami know that as incredible as he is, his isolation tendency stalls good basketball.

The ball sticks and ends up in his hands. And in the biggest moments, when the ball is in his hands and the game is in his hands, he shrinks into inefficiency. As remarkable as his statistics are numerically, the inefficiency at which he achieves them costs him. We saw that when the ball stalled in Miami plenty of times. Yet, he praised the Spurs for their "Team basketball" after they dismantled the Heat.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Opinion, and I disagree. He controlled the pace, which kept the games close and prevented the Warriors from playing their usual game. Also hypocritical of you to call him selfish when you're a fan of a player who plays similarly to the way he played in these finals.

if you consider holding the ball for 20 seconds every possession "controlling the pace" then sure.. he controlled the pace, and froze out his teammates in the process..




What shooters? James Jones?

the shooters that Kerr chose not to double off of.. he told his players to not double onto lebron and to stay on the shooter.. like.. did you not even watch the series.. :oldlol: :oldlol:




Yeah, Warriors had such an easy time in the series

they won the last 3 games in blow out fashion..



LeBron can shoot, if you have followed his career. Not sure why he forgot how to shoot these playoffs (he certainly couldn't shoot in these playoffs I'll give you that) but in general he is a solid shooter, especially from 3.

yeah but he was terrible shooting all through the playoffs, shot 28% from outside 5 feet.. so basically if it wasn't a layup he wasn't making it in these finals..



LeBron was their only advantage you troll

no, their other advantage was the massive size advantage that they had down low.. maybe you missed the game where Mozgof dropped 28/10 and then played 9 minutes the next game because it was fuccing up lebrons spacing..

their biggest advantage was what they had down low.. they were forced to double at times because Green can't guard 7 footers all game.. but they couldn't play TT & Mozgof together for long stretches because of the spacing problems it creates for lebron

try watching the games bub

[TheMarkMadsen]

RR3 keep telling yourself Lebron wasn't single covered the entire series.. shot 28% outside of 5 feet..

these are the facts

[FLDFSU]

When I hear anyone the least bit involved with or experienced in the game of basketball tell me it was terrible I'll start to consider that maybe my eyes play tricks on me. For now I'm going to assume they saw what I saw because of the multitude of coaches players and Hall of Famers who seem convinced he was somewhere between very good and unbelievably all-time great.

Haters on the internet aren't now and never have been worth listening to if you are actually trying to find the truth. You just kind of keep interacting with them because irrational haters are part of the fan experience.

But there is nothing to be gained by listening to people who think you put up 36 13 and 9 against the best team in the NBA with some of the least help to ever play on that level and you played horrible due to shooting percentages when the team literally shot 15% with you off the floor.

A rational person could come to the conclusion that it wasn't as great as the many people involved in the game suggested it was. But nobody trying to be the least bit reasonable could come to the conclusion it's literally playing poorly. Or even average.

Just a gang of people trolling online because apparently pretending to be a lot stupider than you are is entertaining when you get angry reactions.

It's not the "trolls" who are scary. Everyone recognizes what they are.

It's the people who actually believe and start quoting many of the things "trolls" say in the present, and then change their arguments in the future.
Or those who constantly contradict themselves.

Yes ISH is littered with possibly 100 "trolls" but at least half of the remaining population is littered with posters who does the above regularly.

[Droid101]

....
Dude come on. The Warriors had an easy time. Three close games and three total blowouts. That's as easy as a Finals can get without being four blowouts.

[FLDFSU]

....

His entire moronic premise is built on the notion that both teams in the Finals were somewhat equal. He literally just throws away the idea that the Cavs were with out their second and third best players (who they lost during the playoffs...it is not like they had a chance to meaningfully adjust without them).

This is what allows him to talk in absolutes about what the Cavs could have done in order to win.

EDIT: These are the same idiots that told us that teams/teammates get better when Lebron leaves because they no longer have to play "Lebron ball." Yet somehow the team Lebron joins consistently wins more games in the first year of Lebron then they did previous, and the team that Lebron leaves consistently wins less...

[Done_And_Done]

Peak Shaq herald as 'GOAT' finals performer

36/14/3 on 57% TS




LeBrons finals

36/13/9 on 47% TS



Hmm objectively it was probably the most dominating finals performance in NBA History

With the difference being Shaq always came through on the big stag, whereas your baby d1cked boy toy...... Yeaaaah not so much :cheers:

[riseagainst]

it should have been a sweep if Curry didn't play like garbage the first half of the series.

Iggy definitely deserved the FMVP for holding lebron's efficiency down.

[branslowski]

Honestly looking at it:

If you WATCHED THE GAMES and didn't know his boxscore stats throughout the series you would say he had a horrible series for an All-Time great...Talk about game 1 where he missed a gamewinner and then we didn't even see his impact in the overtime, dude scored like 2pts on a "Already over" layup...Throughout the series he got 1 on 1 defense something Jordan or Kobe never would get, and outside of 5 ft he shoots sub 30%??? 36ppg on 33shots?

If you looked at only his stats and purposely forgot his woes during the series then you would say it was the most statistically dominant performance ever. Yet the game 6 summed up the whole series..He had monster stats but watching the game you kept saying to yourself "Come on LeBron, pick it up", even the commentators were making note of this.

[SouBeachTalents]

Still better than 2000 Kobe's or '06 Shaq's Finals, but I guess since they had a teammate outscore them by 20+ ppg and they won their performances are more acceptable

[red1]

He played no defense. Made another role player into FMVP.

Took 40 shots a game to score 35 points.

Froze out his teammates.

Failed to come through in the clutch yet again.
and this my friend is the reason why you are red and the reason why your thread is one starred :applause:

[ArbitraryWater]

probably the greatest finals Performance since 2000 Shaq :bowdown:

[SouBeachTalents]

Also, when did 36 points on 33 shots turn into 35 points on 40 shots?

[red1]

He was horrendous defensively and at least pretty bad offensively.
He was good rebounding and above average setting up his teammates.
It's a B performance if I ever see one, not terrible, but he could've done a lot better

Pretty selfish and full of low IQ bball

Kerr showed that he feared the cavs shooters more than he feared Lebrons ISO game.

Lebron fell directly into the gameplan Kerr set.. Lebron of course refused to change the way the cavs ran their offense which made it extremely simple and easy for the warriors to defend the cavs.

Something else that isn't talked about as much is the fact that Lebrons inability to shoot and desire to have the entire floor spaced out for him to work with made it so that the cavs couldn't play TT & Mozgof together for long stretches..

Basically rendering the only advantage the cavs had over the warriors useless...


Honestly looking at it:

If you WATCHED THE GAMES and didn't know his boxscore stats throughout the series you would say he had a horrible series for an All-Time great...Talk about game 1 where he missed a gamewinner and then we didn't even see his impact in the overtime, dude scored like 2pts on a "Already over" layup...Throughout the series he got 1 on 1 defense something Jordan or Kobe never would get, and outside of 5 ft he shoots sub 30%??? 36ppg on 33shots?

If you looked at only his stats and purposely forgot his woes during the series then you would say it was the most statistically dominant performance ever. Yet the game 6 summed up the whole series..He had monster stats but watching the game you kept saying to yourself "Come on LeBron, pick it up", even the commentators were making note of this.
Blah blah blah :blah . I would've loved to have seen chuckbe get swept playing this same exact team with the same exact roster. I honestly don't think he would've won a single game. And before you bring up "single coverage" lets not forget him getting locked up by tayshaun in the finals

[Heavincent]

The Cavs offense was putrid throughout the series (like historically bad), so yeah, his finals performance was overrated imo. The Cavs won those 2 games because their defense suffocated the Warriors.

[ArbitraryWater]

The Cavs offense was putrid throughout the series (like historically bad), so yeah, his finals performance was overrated imo. The Cavs won those 2 games because their defense suffocated the Warriors.

yeah, and no mention of him massively helping out that offense? Lmao

You remember Smith, Dellavoda, Jones, Miller, etc. being something like 0 for 20 for the series? Not a single made shot without LeBron...

Offense was like "Is the ball gonna go to Smith? Yes it will... and he's taking a Long 3! *CLANK"

[G0ATbe]

Just a replay of 2014 but less efficient. Last 2 finals have to be the most empty stat spectacles ever and he was even more useless on defense this time :applause:. It's a good thing they had Mozgov and Thompson to happily pick up his slack.

[riseagainst]

Cavs ran no offense. It was just Lebron ball.

[tpols]

The Cavs offense was putrid throughout the series (like historically bad), so yeah, his finals performance was overrated imo. The Cavs won those 2 games because their defense suffocated the Warriors.

Yup.. Delladova locking curry up/getting in his head was really the only thing that gave them their wins.. once he tired out the floodgates opened. Nice short term manuever but not sustainable.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

When you combine his stat-line with the horrid 4th quarters, terrible shooting outside the paint (lol @ 28% from 5 feet+), and his lack of defense...ANY rational poster will tell you he played 'good' at BEST.

Only idiots think it was some historic series. Seriously. :oldlol:

[K Xerxes]

Cavs had no shot without Love and Irving. Their defense was good, but their offense was putrid. And I don't see how you can blame James for dominating the ball when no one else on the floor could literally bring the ball up, let alone create their own shot. Any time James was on the bench or not involved in a play, Cavs offense looked d league. I'm sure the stats will back that up too.

I've noticed that many times people chided James for being too passive. He certainly wasn't in this series. Albeit on poor efficiency, he put up close to a 40 point triple double. He played hard with an outmatched team. He shot poorly, yes, which prevented it from being a 'great' series. Saying that it was anything less than very good is absurd though.

[Ne 1]

When you combine his stat-line with the horrid 4th quarters, terrible shooting outside the paint (lol @ 28% from 5 feet+), and his lack of defense...ANY rational poster will tell you he played 'good' at BEST.

Only idiots think it was some historic series. Seriously. :oldlol:

Yeah, his defense was poor, but that actually isn't as big of a point to me because I understand he had to focus more on offense and save his energy for that end of the floor, but it's ironic though because this is where his teammates excelled.

[red1]

Cavs had no shot without Love and Irving. Their defense was good, but their offense was putrid. And I don't see how you can blame James for dominating the ball when no one else on the floor could literally bring the ball up, let alone create their own shot. Any time James was on the bench or not involved in a play, Cavs offense looked d league. I'm sure the stats will back that up too.

I've noticed that many times people chided James for being too passive. He certainly wasn't in this series. Albeit on poor efficiency, he put up close to a 40 point triple double. He played hard with an outmatched team. He shot poorly, yes, which prevented it from being a 'great' series. Saying that it was anything less than very good is absurd though.
exactly



Without LeBron James on the floor this series.
JR Smith 0/9 FG
Delly 0/7 FG
J. Jones 0/3 FG
Shumpert 0/2 FG
Total 0/21 FG
https://twitter.com/tomhaberstroh/status/611055199403294720

[tpols]

Cavs had no shot without Love and Irving. Their defense was good, but their offense was putrid. And I don't see how you can blame James for dominating the ball when no one else on the floor could literally bring the ball up, let alone create their own shot. Any time James was on the bench or not involved in a play, Cavs offense looked d league. I'm sure the stats will back that up too.

I've noticed that many times people chided James for being too passive. He certainly wasn't in this series. Albeit on poor efficiency, he put up close to a 40 point triple double. He played hard with an outmatched team. He shot poorly, yes, which prevented it from being a 'great' series. Saying that it was anything less than very good is absurd though.

Yea it wasn't horrible but it could've went from decent/good to GOAT level if he hit a respectable 40 something percent on jumpers because cavs probably would've won then.. really no reason to shoot that badly.

[ArbitraryWater]

exactly



https://twitter.com/tomhaberstroh/status/611055199403294720

**** thats horrible.. People think this wasn't absolutely a great series? :biggums:

[3ball]

**** thats horrible.. People think this wasn't absolutely a great series? :biggums:
he shot 39.8% against single-coverage

in the biggest game of the series, with a chance to go up 3-1, he scored 20 points with zero in the 4th
.

[K Xerxes]

exactly


https://twitter.com/tomhaberstroh/status/611055199403294720

Yeah, it was funny how they tried to rest him at the beginning of the 4th quarter, only for the offense to stagnate instantly and suck. Then they had to settle for resting him only 40 seconds at the end of the quarters. The team sucked on offense, no way around it. Trying to post up Mozgov and Thompson :facepalm


Yea it wasn't horrible but it could've went from decent/good to GOAT level if he hit a respectable 40 something percent on jumpers because cavs probably would've won then.. really no reason to shoot that badly.

If James had a reliable jumpshot, he'd be a legitimate candidate for GOAT. It's the biggest hole in his game and has failed him on numerous occassions. I'm not sure what's so surprising about it sucking this playoffs when it was the same in 2012, except he had a little more help there. Aside from the 2014 finals and a couple of series here and there, when has it been reliable?

In effect, he literally had no margin of error in this series. He had to create all of the offense. 9 assists/game. Thompson is a more important rebounder, but he still ended up with 13/game which is a lot.

With better efficiency he might have put up close to a 45ppg triple double, which is I think too much to expect from one man. And even if he did it, I don't think it would have been enough. Maybe 7 games, but when the opposing team can bring out the 9th guy on the bench as a spark, it's difficult to do everything, and do it WELL.

[3ball]

Once the Warriors adjusted to the rudimentary Lebron-ball, they came back and won the last 3 games of the series.. Dallas did the same thing in 2011.

It's a shame Lebron-ball doesn't allow room for counteradjustments.. Instead, it allows choking, since opponents quickly adjust and comeback.

if the series were played over right now, Warriors sweep in blowout fashion because they already made the adjustment, and Lebron's game doesn't allow the capacity for counter-adjustments.. If plan A doesn't work, Lebron's team is ****ed

[DMAVS41]

Once the Warriors adjusted to the rudimentary Lebron-ball, they came back and won the last 3 games of the series.. Dallas did the same thing in 2011.

It's a shame Lebron-ball doesn't allow room for counteradjustments.. Instead, it allows choking, since opponents quickly adjust and comeback.

if the series were played over right now, Warriors sweep in blowout fashion because they already made the adjustment, and Lebron's game doesn't allow the capacity for counter-adjustments.. If plan A doesn't work, Lebron's team is ****ed

I actually agree with most of this.

Kerr simply waited too long to go small...it was obvious after game 1 and certainly in game 2....that that was going to give the Cavs fits.

[K Xerxes]

Once the Warriors adjusted to the rudimentary Lebron-ball, they came back and won the last 3 games of the series.. Dallas did the same thing in 2011.

It's a shame Lebron-ball doesn't allow room for counteradjustments.. Instead, it allows choking, since opponents quickly adjust and comeback.

if the series were played over right now, Warriors sweep in blowout fashion because they already made the adjustment, and Lebron's game doesn't allow the capacity for counter-adjustments.. If plan A doesn't work, Lebron's team is ****ed

It also allows him to lead teams to two championships, which how many people in history have done? Stop with the hyperbole.

[red1]

Once the Warriors adjusted to the rudimentary Lebron-ball, they came back and won the last 3 games of the series.. Dallas did the same thing in 2011.

It's a shame Lebron-ball doesn't allow room for counteradjustments.. Instead, it allows choking, since opponents quickly adjust and comeback.

if the series were played over right now, Warriors sweep in blowout fashion because they already made the adjustment, and Lebron's game doesn't allow the capacity for counter-adjustments.. If plan A doesn't work, Lebron's team is ****ed
ok


http://www.nsmbl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Everything-OK.gif

[3ball]

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/isolation/?dir=1&Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs

In both the regular season and playoffs, Lebron isolated more than anything else he did - he isolated on 32.7% of his possessions in the playoffs, which was #1 in the league.

But he only shot 33.1% on these isolations, which reduced his FG% more than any other factor and proved that MJ's far superior isolation ability would've enabled a much better overall efficiency in these playoffs.

Again, Lebron's heavy use of isolations coupled with his poor FG% on those isolations lets us know MJ's far superior isolation ability would've enabled a far better efficiency in Lebron's shoes during this playoff run.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Once the Warriors adjusted to the rudimentary Lebald-ball, it was over.



:applause: :applause:

[warriorfan]

When you combine his stat-line with the horrid 4th quarters, terrible shooting outside the paint (lol @ 28% from 5 feet+), and his lack of defense...ANY rational poster will tell you he played 'good' at BEST.

Only idiots think it was some historic series. Seriously. :oldlol:

box score reading losers. i guarantee most of these guys who were saying lebron had a great finals didn't even watch one full game

[Black Mamba's B]

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/isolation/?dir=1&Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs

In both the regular season and playoffs, Lebron isolated more than anything else he did - he isolated on 32.7% of his possessions in the playoffs, which was #1 in the league.

But he only shot 33.1% on these isolations, which reduced his FG% more than any other factor and proved that MJ's far superior isolation ability would've enabled a much better overall efficiency in these playoffs.

Again, Lebron's heavy use of isolations coupled with his poor FG% on those isolations lets us know MJ's far superior isolation ability would've enabled a far better efficiency in Lebron's shoes during this playoff run.
Bron's PPP was quite terrible as well

[TheMarkMadsen]

Blah blah blah :blah . I would've loved to have seen chuckbe get swept playing this same exact team with the same exact roster.

with an even worse roster around him

broken down oldbe averaged

36ppg on 44% against the warriors this season

:lol :lol

[Heavincent]

yeah, and no mention of him massively helping out that offense? Lmao

You remember Smith, Dellavoda, Jones, Miller, etc. being something like 0 for 20 for the series? Not a single made shot without LeBron...

Offense was like "Is the ball gonna go to Smith? Yes it will... and he's taking a Long 3! *CLANK"

He obviously wasn't to blame, but you'll have to excuse me for not thinking it was a GOAT level series. Not even close. His efficiency was poor and his defense was subpar at best. The talk of him deserving FMVP is ludicrous.

Put another superstar in that spot and he would produce similar results. We saw Westbrook do it this season.

[warriorfan]

When I hear anyone the least bit involved with or experienced in the game of basketball tell me it was terrible I'll start to consider that maybe my eyes play tricks on me. For now I'm going to assume they saw what I saw because of the multitude of coaches players and Hall of Famers who seem convinced he was somewhere between very good and unbelievably all-time great.

Haters on the internet aren't now and never have been worth listening to if you are actually trying to find the truth. You just kind of keep interacting with them because irrational haters are part of the fan experience.

But there is nothing to be gained by listening to people who think you put up 36 13 and 9 against the best team in the NBA with some of the least help to ever play on that level and you played horrible due to shooting percentages when the team literally shot 15% with you off the floor.

A rational person could come to the conclusion that it wasn't as great as the many people involved in the game suggested it was. But nobody trying to be the least bit reasonable could come to the conclusion it's literally playing poorly. Or even average.

Just a gang of people trolling online because apparently pretending to be a lot stupider than you are is entertaining when you get angry reactions.

I respect your opinion but he didn't do well. Plain and simple.

I agree that he had a hard situation and was outmatched by a better team but that still doesn't give you an excuse for playing poorly. Basketball is a 4 quarter game, the 4th quarter is the most important. Did you see LeBron's performances in the 4th quarter for the entire series? I don't even need to go look up the stats, just eye test showed clear enough that LeBron struggled badly down the stretch of the game for the entire series. This is why it wasn't a great performance. A great performance would of been the same stats on better efficiency while not shitting the bed in the 4th quarter. When you play great for 3 quarters and shit the bed in the 4th and lose, it doesn't become a great performance anymore.


If you take a test in school, even if it is a hard test, and you weren't prepared for it, and you get a D...Does everyone say "Well it was very hard, and you didn't have much help, so we are going to just call this an A". It doesn't work like that. Your evaluation of your performance is not given by the difficulty of the test, your evaluation is given strictly from your performance, that's it. No excuses.

[ArbitraryWater]

He obviously wasn't to blame, but you'll have to excuse me for not thinking it was a GOAT level series. Not even close. His efficiency was poor and his defense was subpar at best. The talk of him deserving FMVP is ludicrous.

Put another superstar in that spot and he would produce similar results. We saw Westbrook do it this season.

there is no one in that same spot who would make this a close 6-game series, you know that.. You'd be insulting the Warriors if you say there was.

[Heavincent]

there is no one in that same spot who would make this a close 6-game series, you know that.. You'd be insulting the Warriors if you say there was.

Anthony Davis played better against GS than Lebron did.

As I said, the Cavs won those 2 games because of their defense. Their offense was still hot garbage even in those wins. They shot 32% in game 2 :roll:

You're telling me there's nobody in the league who could score 39 points on 35 shots?

[warriorfan]

there is no one in that same spot who would make this a close 6-game series, you know that.. You'd be insulting the Warriors if you say there was.

This isn't proper justification to say that LeBron had a good series. LeBron choking on dick in the 4th doesn't get changed by the fact that "no one else could beat the warriors!". It isn't even about winning or losing or stacked or not stacked. It's about shooting sub 40% and choking in 4th quarters. When you shoot an awful efficiency like that while dominating the ball so much and choking in the 4th, it's not a good game. These are the hard facts. Deal with them.

[ArbitraryWater]

Anthony Davis played better against GS than Lebron did.

As I said, the Cavs won those 2 games because of their defense. Their offense was still hot garbage even in those wins. They shot 32% in game 2 :roll:

You're telling me there's nobody in the league who could score 39 points on 35 shots?

those aren't even the correct numbers dammit :lol

no, Davis did not Play better... if I remember correctly he attained all his Points in a 20 pt 4q blowout in game 1 and then in game 3 lost that Kind of lead... how can you say he was swept yet compare his Impact to LeBron's with an equal supporting cast?

If you wanna get the #'s straight, Bron had what, 38 ppg on 33 shots? MJ in 93 had 41 ppg on 34 shots... shit isn't much different, besides he faced a weaker defense and Bron rebounded and assisted alot more.

I just realized 32% is a whole 32% better than what 5 other guys did this series without LeBron..lol.

[TheMarkMadsen]

does anybody really believe that a line up of

Livingston
Klay
Bran
Green
Bogut

is winning anything? Only one guy to spread the floor, the Warriors entire game-plan and success was predicated on having the GOAT shooter.. Curry drew more defensive attention in that finals than Lebron did.. and that's just a face,, they were doubling/trapping Curry as soon as he got past half court which allowed for his teammates to get wide open looks and have more room to operate. Curry made the right play almost every time by swinging the ball to Green immediately after the double team..

without Curry the Warriors are just an average team..

but of course, for the second year bran stans want to push the narrative that he lost to some all time great team.. when in reality if you switch Lebron with Curry that GSW team probably doesn't even make the finals because that is an awful supporting cast for Lebron..

[Heavincent]

does anybody really believe that a line up of

Livingston
Klay
Bran
Green
Bogut

is winning anything? Only one guy to spread the floor, the Warriors entire game-plan and success was predicated on having the GOAT shooter.. Curry drew more defensive attention in that finals than Lebron did.. and that's just a face,, they were doubling/trapping Curry as soon as he got past half court which allowed for his teammates to get wide open looks and have more room to operate. Curry made the right play almost every time by swinging the ball to Green immediately after the double team..

without Curry the Warriors are just an average team..

but of course, for the second year bran stans want to push the narrative that he lost to some all time great team.. when in reality if you switch Lebron with Curry that GSW team probably doesn't even make the finals because that is an awful supporting cast for Lebron..

Yeah, that's a bad fit.

[DMAVS41]

there is no one in that same spot who would make this a close 6-game series, you know that.. You'd be insulting the Warriors if you say there was.

while this is probably true...I don't think that takes away from the valid points of criticism on Lebron's offense.

If you can't hit outside shots for long stretches in the playoffs or in a tough series like the finals...it's going to seriously impact your chances of winning regardless of help.

doesn't change the fact that Lebron is on the short list of best players ever, but he has a real and noticeable weakness when it comes to scoring...and because he makes virtually no impact off the ball....it hurts a lot.

[TheMarkMadsen]

those aren't even the correct numbers dammit :lol

no, Davis did not Play better... if I remember correctly he attained all his Points in a 20 pt 4q blowout in game 1 and then in game 3 lost that Kind of lead... how can you say he was swept yet compare his Impact to LeBron's with an equal supporting cast?

If you wanna get the #'s straight, Bron had what, 38 ppg on 33 shots? MJ in 93 had 41 ppg on 34 shots... shit isn't much different, besides he faced a weaker defense and Bron rebounded and assisted alot more.

I just realized 32% is a whole 32% better than what 5 other guys did this series without LeBron..lol.

way to just lie you ass off :roll: :roll:

bran averaged 35.8 ppg on 33 shots per game

[Heavincent]

those aren't even the correct numbers dammit :lol

no, Davis did not Play better... if I remember correctly he attained all his Points in a 20 pt 4q blowout in game 1 and then in game 3 lost that Kind of lead... how can you say he was swept yet compare his Impact to LeBron's with an equal supporting cast?

If you wanna get the #'s straight, Bron had what, 38 ppg on 33 shots? MJ in 93 had 41 ppg on 34 shots... shit isn't much different, besides he faced a weaker defense and Bron rebounded and assisted alot more.

I just realized 32% is a whole 32% better than what 5 other guys did this series without LeBron..lol.

The Pelicans team defense wasn't as good as the Cavs, which isn't Davis' fault obviously. That's the difference. Warriors had no answer for Davis. With Lebron, they were content to just let Iguodala guard him 1-on-1 and force him into terrible efficiency.

Davis put up 31/11 on FAR better efficiency and played better individual defense.

[ArbitraryWater]

way to just lie you ass off :roll: :roll:

bran averaged 35.8 ppg on 33 shots per game

Your reading comprehension is horrible, this is your native language, dude... asking a question is interpreted as lying in the house of ISH poster Mark Madsen... :lol

[TheMarkMadsen]

Your reading comprehension is horrible, this is your native language, dude... asking a question is interpreted as lying in the house of ISH poster Mark Madsen... :lol

you got Jordan's numbers right on the dot from a series that happened 20 years ago but couldn't remember the numbers from your favorite player from a series that happened ~2 weeks ago.. ok.. :oldlol:

you dumb fucc you went and looked up both series and then just proceed to lie

:roll:

[ArbitraryWater]

you got Jordan's numbers right on the dot from a series that happened 20 years ago but couldn't remember the numbers from your favorite player from a series that happened ~2 weeks ago.. ok.. :oldlol:

you dumb fucc you went and looked up both series and then just proceed to lie

:roll:

http://favoritememes.com/_nw/20/18485678.jpg

you a native, bro

[warriorfan]

does anybody really believe that a line up of

Livingston
Klay
Bran
Green
Bogut

is winning anything? Only one guy to spread the floor, the Warriors entire game-plan and success was predicated on having the GOAT shooter.. Curry drew more defensive attention in that finals than Lebron did.. and that's just a face,, they were doubling/trapping Curry as soon as he got past half court which allowed for his teammates to get wide open looks and have more room to operate. Curry made the right play almost every time by swinging the ball to Green immediately after the double team..

without Curry the Warriors are just an average team..

but of course, for the second year bran stans want to push the narrative that he lost to some all time great team.. when in reality if you switch Lebron with Curry that GSW team probably doesn't even make the finals because that is an awful supporting cast for Lebron..


Exactly. The fact that people act like the Warriors are some all time great team just shows you how much impact Steph Curry has. Steph lead a team that started Klay Thompson and three 10 ppg scorers to one of the best offenses in the league...Let that sink in for a moment...

Off the bench he has Iguodala who struggles to shoot 50% from the line and 35% from 3 pointer.

Livingston who is nice but is very one dimensional, 6 ppg scorer

Old man Barbosa...yea

Old blown out David Lee (if you wanna expose yourself on not knowing shit about bball just start talking about how 2015 David Lee is a good player :lol )

Stone hands Ezeli

Mo Speights another 10 ppg career player

Justin Holiday? Brandon Rush?


Look down GSW line up and honestly tell me that outside of Steph Curry that they are a good offensive team, even decent offensive team. You can't. That personnel is god awful offensively and the only reason why they an an Elite offense is because of Steph Curry.

[Trollsmasher]

When I hear anyone the least bit involved with or experienced in the game of basketball tell me it was terrible I'll start to consider that maybe my eyes play tricks on me. For now I'm going to assume they saw what I saw because of the multitude of coaches players and Hall of Famers who seem convinced he was somewhere between very good and unbelievably all-time great.

Haters on the internet aren't now and never have been worth listening to if you are actually trying to find the truth. You just kind of keep interacting with them because irrational haters are part of the fan experience.

But there is nothing to be gained by listening to people who think you put up 36 13 and 9 against the best team in the NBA with some of the least help to ever play on that level and you played horrible due to shooting percentages when the team literally shot 15% with you off the floor.

A rational person could come to the conclusion that it wasn't as great as the many people involved in the game suggested it was. But nobody trying to be the least bit reasonable could come to the conclusion it's literally playing poorly. Or even average.

Just a gang of people trolling online because apparently pretending to be a lot stupider than you are is entertaining when you get angry reactions.
haterz staying far away from Kblaze's ether:roll:

[3ball]

He played no defense. Made another role player into FMVP.

Took 40 shots a game to score 35 points.

Froze out his teammates.

Failed to come through in the clutch yet again.


You must be referencing Game 4, where he had a chance to go up 3-1 and essentially secure series victory, but blew it with 20 points, and zero in the 4th..

Typical Bran at this point tbh

[3ball]

These playoffs showed that the real reason Lebron < MJ, Magic, Larry, etc. is because those guys could get all-time level stats alongside other great players and on championship-caliber teams..

Whereas Lebron CAN'T produce all-time level stats alongside other great players or on championship-caliber teams - his playoff and Finals stats on those Heat teams weren't nearly as good as his stats alongside lesser players in Cleveland from 2007-2010:

(i.e. 25 PPG in 2013 Finals, 28 PPG and 4 APG in 2014 Finals, 17 PPG in 2011 Finals - nowhere NEAR all-time level.. Not even elite tbh)

Of course, in these playoffs, his horrible efficiency turned his stats were nothing more than Iverson-style stat-padding - his team had NO chance of winning at that efficiency.
.

[warriorfan]

You must be referencing Game 4, where he had a chance to go up 3-1 and essentially secure series victory, but blew it with 20 points, and zero in the 4th..

Typical Bran at this point tbh

How on earth can you have multiple 4th quarter failures in a series and people claim it was a great performance? :confusedshrug:

[FLDFSU]

I actually agree with most of this.

Kerr simply waited too long to go small...it was obvious after game 1 and certainly in game 2....that that was going to give the Cavs fits.

Yep. This time next year (maybe less) you will claim that it was obvious that poster was just trolling when I quote that post...

[DMAVS41]

Yep. This time next year (maybe less) you will claim that it was obvious that poster was just trolling when I quote that post...


You are clown dude.

Get a new gimmick.

[Blue&Orange]

When I hear anyone the least bit involved with or experienced in the game of basketball tell me it was terrible I'll start to consider that maybe my eyes play tricks on me. For now I'm going to assume they saw what I saw because of the multitude of coaches players and Hall of Famers who seem convinced he was somewhere between very good and unbelievably all-time great.

Haters on the internet aren't now and never have been worth listening to if you are actually trying to find the truth. You just kind of keep interacting with them because irrational haters are part of the fan experience.

But there is nothing to be gained by listening to people who think you put up 36 13 and 9 against the best team in the NBA with some of the least help to ever play on that level and you played horrible due to shooting percentages when the team literally shot 15% with you off the floor.

A rational person could come to the conclusion that it wasn't as great as the many people involved in the game suggested it was. But nobody trying to be the least bit reasonable could come to the conclusion it's literally playing poorly. Or even average.

Just a gang of people trolling online because apparently pretending to be a lot stupider than you are is entertaining when you get angry reactions.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=380294
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11477914&postcount=20

Please feel free argue any point made.

This thread nothing but dumb stans already trying to rewrite history based on empty stats and actually having the nerve to call out people "watch the game"

[Young X]

These playoffs showed that the real reason Lebron < MJ, Magic, Larry, etc. is because those guys could get all-time level stats alongside other great players and on championship-caliber teams..

Whereas Lebron CAN'T produce all-time level stats alongside other great players or on championship-caliber teams - his stats on those Heat teams weren't nearly as good as his stats alongside lesser players in Cleveland from 2007-2010.

Of course, in these playoffs, his horrible efficiency turned his stats were nothing more than Iverson-style stat-padding - his team had NO chance of winning at that efficiency.
.What great players did Lebron play with in these playoffs? :biggums:

And Lebron already "produced all time level stats" in Miami. :biggums:

[3ball]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=380294
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11477914&postcount=20

Please feel free argue any point made.

This thread nothing but dumb stans already trying to rewrite history based on empty stats and actually having the nerve to call out people "watch the game"


:applause:

A) 30% FG in fourth quarter for entire Finals

B) 39.8% FG for entire Finals against single coverage

C) Only 20 points in critical Game 4, including zero in 4th quarter, despite chance to get 3-1 lead and secure the 2015 NBA Championship


Magic, Larry, MJ, Kobe, or even prime Oscar (who was a lights out shooter), would've done significantly better in the specific areas outlined above, which would've allowed the Cavs to win.

On defense, MJ doesn't let ANYONE get FMVP, let alone a role player.
.

[3ball]

And Lebron already "produced all time level stats" in Miami. :biggums:


His stats were lower in Miami, and ESPECIALLY in the playoffs and Finals.

(i.e. 25 PPG in 2013 Finals, 28 PPG and 4 APG in 2014 Finals, 17 PPG in 2011 Finals - nowhere NEAR all-time level.. Not even elite tbh)

Lebron-ball isn't adjustable enough to find new ways to score alongide capable teamates like Wade and Bosh, so Lebron-ball has to dial back altogether..

Hence the lower stats in playoffs and Finals while with the Heat.
.

[chazzy]

yeah, and no mention of him massively helping out that offense? Lmao
But their offense was at the level of the '15 Knicks (29th) in that series. It's one thing to be your team's sole star player, but if he's not elevating them to some semi-decent offense, why should I consider it an all time great series? They won two games while Dellavedova made Curry look like garbage for 7 quarters.

[nzahir]

Stats are so worthless.
DED

[Young X]

His stats were lower in Miami, and ESPECIALLY in the playoffs and Finals.

(i.e. 25 PPG in 2013 Finals, 28 PPG and 4 APG in 2014 Finals, 17 PPG in 2011 Finals - nowhere NEAR all-time level.. Not even elite tbh)

Lebron-ball isn't adjustable enough to find new ways to score alongide capable teamates like Wade and Bosh, so Lebron-ball has to dial back altogether..

Hence the lower stats in playoffs and Finals while with the Heat.
.His stats were lower because he played less minutes and had less responsibilities.

Not counting his rookie year, Per 36, his points and assists were the same in Cleveland as they were in Miami.

And he averaged 30 in his 2012 playoff run playing alongside Wade and Bosh.

[aj1987]

But their offense was at the level of the '15 Knicks (29th) in that series. It's one thing to be your team's sole star player, but if he's not elevating them to some semi-decent offense, why should I consider it an all time great series? They won two games while Dellavedova made Curry look like garbage for 7 quarters.
Do you not remember LeBron basically controlling the offense by slowing it down? Delly was amazing, but without LeBron, it would've been a sweet with all games being 40+ point blowouts.

It's not an ATG series (ATG Finals = top 10 ever), but it's a series better than ANY of Kobe's in the Finals.

[pauk]

Well, he didnt average 60-10-10-10-10 and shoot 100% FG.... thats what he needed to do to win under these circumstances.... so....

[chazzy]

Do you not remember LeBron basically controlling the offense by slowing it down? Delly was amazing, but without LeBron, it would've been a sweet with all games being 40+ point blowouts.

I'm not saying he was a net negative or something, but all of his volume stats didn't elevate them to some great level offensively. The surprise was how well the Cavs contained Curry early in the series. And yes, the one of the biggest impact Lebron had was the fact that his isolations took away from the Warrior's transition game. My main point is that his mpact wasn't all time great, especially because of how terribly inefficient he was

[aj1987]

I'm not saying he was a net negative or something, but all of his volume stats didn't elevate them to some great level offensively. The surprise was how well the Cavs contained Curry early in the series. And yes, the one of the biggest impact Lebron had was the fact that his isolations took away from the Warrior's transition game. My main point is that his mpact wasn't all time great, especially because of how terribly inefficient he was
Yeah, well, when you try to drive and you get doubled or tripled, you're going to be inefficient. Dude's jumper was broke AF. Not going to argue with you there. He couldn't make a jumper to save his life. Still, whenever be passed it to an open player, it was usually a brick though. He got doubled and tripled in the paint a LOT. It's actually quite surprising that they went to 6. I was expecting a sweep.

[Droid101]

It's not an ATG series (ATG Finals = top 10 ever), but it's a series better than ANY of Kobe's in the Finals.
Uh, no I'd take Kobe's line vs. Orlando (plus the win) over this 28% beyond 5 feet chuckfest.

[aj1987]

Uh, no I'd take Kobe's line vs. Orlando (plus the win) over this 28% beyond 5 feet chuckfest.
You sure would. You're constantly on his D. Why wouldn't you?

[Droid101]

You sure would. You're constantly on his D. Why wouldn't you?
Okay, I'd take that line (plus the series win) over LeBron's line if they were both unnamed blank players. Who cares about the player? If you shoot your team out of a series, you stunk that series (see Kobe 2004).

Lebron's line was crap. He couldn't hit shit on single coverage. That's bad.

[3ball]

His stats were lower because he played less minutes and had less responsibilities.


Per 100 Possession Stats (accounts for differences in playing time and pace):


2006-2010 RS: 39.0 PTS, 9.4 AST

2011-2014 RS: 37.4 PTS, 9.4 AST



2006-2010 PO: 37.2 PTS, 9.3 AST

2011-2014 PO: 35.5 PTS, 7.6 AST


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2011-2014-sum:playoffs_per_poss

[3ball]

Lebron's isolation stats (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/isolation/?dir=1&Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs) show he's a very poor isolation player - his regular season isolation stats are well below league-average, and he only shot 33.1% on isolations in the 2015 playoffs.

Of course, Golden State can look up his horrible isolation stats just like you and me.. Naturally, they ALLOWED Lebron to isolate all alone on the strongside without double-teaming, so he would take a 33.1% shot over and over..

Essentially, they PLAYED him - it's always the best defensive strategy to let a player take a 33.1% shot over and over, similar to how teams use hack-a-Deandre:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378398
.

[3ball]

Lebron's isolation stats (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/isolation/?dir=1&Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs) show he's a very poor isolation player - his regular season isolation stats are well below league-average, and he only shot 33.1% on isolations in the 2015 playoffs.

Of course, Golden State can look up his horrible isolation stats just like you and me.. Naturally, they ALLOWED Lebron to isolate all alone on the strongside without double-teaming, so he would take a 33.1% shot over and over..

Essentially, they PLAYED him - it's always the best defensive strategy to let a player take a 33.1% shot over and over, similar to how teams use hack-a-Deandre:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378398


Also, in both the regular season and playoffs, Lebron isolated more than anything else he did - in these playoffs, he isolated on 32.7% of his possessions, which was #1 in the league.

But he only shot 33.1% on these isolations, which reduced his FG% more than any other factor and proved that MJ's far superior isolation ability would've enabled a much better overall efficiency in these playoffs.

Again, Lebron's heavy use of isolations coupled with his poor FG% on those isolations lets us know MJ's far superior isolation ability (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11188520&postcount=37) would've enabled a far better efficiency in Lebron's shoes during this playoff run.
.

[Wally450]

Okay, I'd take that line (plus the series win) over LeBron's line if they were both unnamed blank players. Who cares about the player? If you shoot your team out of a series, you stunk that series (see Kobe 2004).

Lebron's line was crap. He couldn't hit shit on single coverage. That's bad.

Who else was capable of taking shots for Cleveland? JR, no. Shump? No.

Mozgov was the only one outside of LeBron that had a decent series.

[FKAri]

When I hear anyone the least bit involved with or experienced in the game of basketball tell me it was terrible I'll start to consider that maybe my eyes play tricks on me. For now I'm going to assume they saw what I saw because of the multitude of coaches players and Hall of Famers who seem convinced he was somewhere between very good and unbelievably all-time great.

Haters on the internet aren't now and never have been worth listening to if you are actually trying to find the truth. You just kind of keep interacting with them because irrational haters are part of the fan experience.

But there is nothing to be gained by listening to people who think you put up 36 13 and 9 against the best team in the NBA with some of the least help to ever play on that level and you played horrible due to shooting percentages when the team literally shot 15% with you off the floor.

A rational person could come to the conclusion that it wasn't as great as the many people involved in the game suggested it was. But nobody trying to be the least bit reasonable could come to the conclusion it's literally playing poorly. Or even average.

Just a gang of people trolling online because apparently pretending to be a lot stupider than you are is entertaining when you get angry reactions.

I guess the trolls are gonna have to make another thread cuz none of them can respond to this post in here.

[Lebron23]

I guess the trolls are gonna have to make another thread cuz none of them can respond to this post in here.


Kblaze always own the Kobetards. If you think about it most of them are a bigger douche than Kobe. That's why nobody wants to play for the Lakers because of these psychotic fan boys maybe when Kobe is gone.

The Lakers might sign some quality free agents.

[warriorfan]

When I hear anyone the least bit involved with or experienced in the game of basketball tell me it was terrible I'll start to consider that maybe my eyes play tricks on me. For now I'm going to assume they saw what I saw because of the multitude of coaches players and Hall of Famers who seem convinced he was somewhere between very good and unbelievably all-time great.

Haters on the internet aren't now and never have been worth listening to if you are actually trying to find the truth. You just kind of keep interacting with them because irrational haters are part of the fan experience.

But there is nothing to be gained by listening to people who think you put up 36 13 and 9 against the best team in the NBA with some of the least help to ever play on that level and you played horrible due to shooting percentages when the team literally shot 15% with you off the floor.

A rational person could come to the conclusion that it wasn't as great as the many people involved in the game suggested it was. But nobody trying to be the least bit reasonable could come to the conclusion it's literally playing poorly. Or even average.

Just a gang of people trolling online because apparently pretending to be a lot stupider than you are is entertaining when you get angry reactions.

I respect your opinion but he didn't do well. Plain and simple.

I agree that he had a hard situation and was outmatched by a better team but that still doesn't give you an excuse for playing poorly. Basketball is a 4 quarter game, the 4th quarter is the most important. Did you see LeBron's performances in the 4th quarter for the entire series? I don't even need to go look up the stats, just eye test showed clear enough that LeBron struggled badly down the stretch of the game for the entire series. This is why it wasn't a great performance. A great performance would of been the same stats on better efficiency while not shitting the bed in the 4th quarter. When you play great for 3 quarters and shit the bed in the 4th and lose, it doesn't become a great performance anymore.


If you take a test in school, even if it is a hard test, and you weren't prepared for it, and you get a D...Does everyone say "Well it was very hard, and you didn't have much help, so we are going to just call this an A". It doesn't work like that. Your evaluation of your performance is not given by the difficulty of the test, your evaluation is given strictly from your performance, that's it. No excuses.

[sd3035]

Lebron's isolation stats (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/isolation/?dir=1&Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs) show he's a very poor isolation player - his regular season isolation stats are well below league-average, and he only shot 33.1% on isolations in the 2015 playoffs.

Of course, Golden State can look up his horrible isolation stats just like you and me.. Naturally, they ALLOWED Lebron to isolate all alone on the strongside without double-teaming, so he would take a 33.1% shot over and over..

Essentially, they PLAYED him - it's always the best defensive strategy to let a player take a 33.1% shot over and over, similar to how teams use hack-a-Deandre:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378398
.






:applause:

[eliteballer]

Lordy.

[And1AllDay]

imagine the meltdowns :oldlol:

https://i.postimg.cc/KjvNn2fH/Nothing-Finer.png

[Lebron23]

Lordy.

Lebron is a better finals performer than Kobe.

[ELITEpower23]

I respect your opinion but he didn't do well. Plain and simple.

I agree that he had a hard situation and was outmatched by a better team but that still doesn't give you an excuse for playing poorly. Basketball is a 4 quarter game, the 4th quarter is the most important. Did you see LeBron's performances in the 4th quarter for the entire series? I don't even need to go look up the stats, just eye test showed clear enough that LeBron struggled badly down the stretch of the game for the entire series. This is why it wasn't a great performance. A great performance would of been the same stats on better efficiency while not shitting the bed in the 4th quarter. When you play great for 3 quarters and shit the bed in the 4th and lose, it doesn't become a great performance anymore.

Was this back when you were attempting to make intelligent posts but still failed at it?

"Basketball is a 4 quarter game"
Yes exactly. Each quarter counts. The game is a four-quarter game. So we cannot focus on one good or bad quar--


" the 4th quarter is the most important. "
:lol I thought you just said it was a four quarter game, not one but here you are trying to diminish 3 quarters of work because the 4th wasn't as good? Don't try to sound smart, stick to trolling it's what you're good at.