Will Chris Paul catch heat for chasing Jordan off the Clippers? [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

JerrySeinfeld

07-03-2015, 08:29 PM

Who cares? Does anybody actually care about Chris Paul? Guy has been in the league for a decade and has absolutely nothing to show for it.

Nobody's gonna remember Chris Paul in 30 years. :confusedshrug: Why waste our time talking about him now? He's a bonafide loser.

Yeah, I agree with this.

I get tired of hearing about the guy on TV for how little he has done and showed us when it actually counts. Seemed like for 5 years in a row he regularly either under performed when it mattered or just got outshined by other PG's in the playoffs yet whenever the next season began the guys on TV kept acting like he was the best PG in the league, no discussion.

Now they have changed their tune to him being the best "pure" PG in the league, whatever the hell that means.

Heavincent

07-03-2015, 08:30 PM

The double standard is hilarious.

PickernRoller

07-03-2015, 08:31 PM

Why are Laker fans taking a shit on CP3 because Kobe gets the same treatment from LeTards and clowns in this forum and elsewhere? It's all that.....shit from retards.

Fact of the matter is, Jordan is a role player with an specific toolset who's upside was exploited to the max with the Clippers system. Dude will be an asterisk in any other team. No post game, no ****ing free-throws.... Chris is right to harp on this clown for improvement. If Jordan can't take the pressure and do the right thing and improve then take ****ing hike - he will never help deliver a ring being such an exploitable liability on offense - at least on the Clippers. Now we don't have to speculate. He's not winning shit with the Mavs either.

If it wasn't for stupid @ss Nazi David Stern, Chris Paul would be in LA helping deliver rings alongside Kobe.

The nonsense that x franchise player chases x role player out is the new shit among clowns.

OP got solid rep with me but cmon now...

warriorfan

07-03-2015, 09:13 PM

Chris Paul did this on purpose so he can use a bad team as an excuse for not winning

Bankaii

07-03-2015, 09:23 PM

Who the hell gives him a pass? The only thing keeping him from getting the "greatest point guard since Magic" title is that he's never been to the Finals. Kobe stans stay insecure. Go take a walk or something.

Bankaii

07-03-2015, 09:24 PM

Chris Paul did this on purpose so he can use a bad team as an excuse for not winning
My god you're stupid.
CP3>Curry btw.

Cocaine80s

07-03-2015, 09:26 PM

Lol I thought you were a raptor fan
I thought he was a thunder fan :lol

RoundMoundOfReb

07-03-2015, 09:27 PM

I thought he was a thunder fan :lol
i thought he was a bulls fan :lol

dubeta

07-03-2015, 09:36 PM

Yes, but Kobe is still a team Cancer

Don't try and deflect the situation :no:

Yao Ming's Foot

07-03-2015, 09:52 PM

Cocaine80s

07-03-2015, 09:58 PM

i thought he was a bulls fan :lol
:roll:

Bankaii

07-03-2015, 10:04 PM

That's all it takes. :roll:
Isiah Thomas is the same time period to me.
Stockton - 0 rings
Kidd - 0 rings
Nash - 0 rings
Payton - 0 rings
Yea his completion is on a whole nother level.:rolleyes:

Bond007

07-03-2015, 10:24 PM

Yes, but Kobe is still a team Cancer

Don't try and deflect the situation :no:

Half your posts are kobe related:rolleyes:

Heavincent

07-03-2015, 10:47 PM

Isiah Thomas is the same time period to me.
Stockton - 0 rings
Kidd - 0 rings
Nash - 0 rings
Payton - 0 rings
Yea his completion is on a whole nother level.:rolleyes:

Stephen Curry - 1 ring

monkeypox

07-03-2015, 10:50 PM

It's certainly not going to be a part of the ESPN narrative like the "No one wants to play with Kobe" thing.

TheMarkMadsen

07-03-2015, 10:51 PM

Isiah Thomas is the same time period to me.
Stockton - 0 rings
Kidd - 0 rings
Nash - 0 rings
Payton - 0 rings
Yea his completion is on a whole nother level.:rolleyes:

all those guys made the conference finals or the finals..

Paul has had the best front court in the league for the past 2 years and still couldn't even get to the conference finals

Bankaii

07-03-2015, 10:53 PM

Stephen Curry - 1 ring
The same steph that didn't even win FMVP?
Switch him to the Clippers and the lose in the 1st round.

Young X

07-03-2015, 10:54 PM

all those guys made the conference finals or the finals..

Paul has had the best front court in the league for the past 2 years and still couldn't even get to the conference finalsHe plays in the toughest conference in league history.

Yao Ming's Foot

07-03-2015, 10:55 PM

He plays in the toughest conference in league history.

The one in which Kobe rang 5 times? :confusedshrug:

TheMarkMadsen

07-03-2015, 10:55 PM

how is there even an argument for Paul> Curry at this point

One is the GOAT shooter who is currently changing the way the game is played and just won a championship playing a style that NOBODY gave him a chance with (myself included)

the other has played with multiple all star big men, has an MVP canidate on his team, and has had the best front court in the league for 2 years and hasn't even gotten close to the level of success that Curry has seen

GSW style only worked at a championship level because of Curry, and a lot of that has to do with how the defense is forced to guard Curry since he is money from literally anywhere past half court

Bankaii

07-03-2015, 10:56 PM

all those guys made the conference finals or the finals..

Paul has had the best front court in the league for the past 2 years and still couldn't even get to the conference finals
Best front court is debatable. DJ about to get exposed without a playmaking PG.
Read my post before that one, I agreed that until he at least reaches the Finals he doesn't deserve top 5 PG talk.

TheMarkMadsen

07-03-2015, 10:56 PM

He plays in the toughest conference in league history.

so does the current nba champions led by their MVP point guard :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

ArbitraryWater

07-03-2015, 10:59 PM

The one in which Kobe rang 5 times? :confusedshrug:

No.. 2008-2010 West is very far away from any kind of GOAT conference :lol

Young X

07-03-2015, 11:00 PM

so does the current nba champions led by their MVP point guard :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:The Warriors are the best team in the league, legitimately go 10 deep and have the best defense in the league. CP has never been on a team that good.

Bankaii

07-03-2015, 11:00 PM

how is there even an argument for Paul> Curry at this point
Chill with the bull man. GOAT shooter holds no true merit, CP3 is the better point guard, better playmaker, and defense isn't even close. You talk about the Clippers but Curry has the most stacked team in the league. He didn't even win FMVP lol. For once stop hating on a player for your Kobe agenda, pls.

brandonislegend

07-03-2015, 11:02 PM

The same steph that didn't even win FMVP?
Switch him to the Clippers and the lose in the 1st round.
This is one of the most idiotic things I have ever read.

Bankaii

07-03-2015, 11:02 PM

No.. 2008-2010 West is very far away from any kind of GOAT conference :lol
Lol this. The history changes are hilarious.

Heavincent

07-03-2015, 11:03 PM

The same steph that didn't even win FMVP?
Switch him to the Clippers and the lose in the 1st round.

lol like I give a shit about your silly hypothetical scenarios. Chris Paul has had plenty of help since coming to the Clippers. Enough with the excuses.

Facts are: Curry averaged 28/6/5 in the playoffs and led his team to a title...something Chris Paul has not come even remotely close to accomplishing.

Bankaii

07-03-2015, 11:04 PM

This is one of the most idiotic things I have ever read.
Great post man! Your insight is incredible and your opinion means a lot to me. Doesn't change the fact that Curry is nothing without a stacked team.

Heavincent

07-03-2015, 11:05 PM

No.. 2008-2010 West is very far away from any kind of GOAT conference :lol

11 of the 12 teams Kobe faced between 08 and 10 won 50+ games.

Not like that garbage in the East where you get 1st and sometimes even 2nd round byes.

Bankaii

07-03-2015, 11:07 PM

lol like I give a shit about your silly hypothetical scenarios. Chris Paul has had plenty of help since coming to the Clippers. Enough with the excuses.

Facts are: Curry averaged 28/6/5 in the playoffs and led his team to a title...something Chris Paul has not come even remotely close to accomplishing.
And I don't care about your stupid opinion, you were a Kobe Stan, not a Warriors fan before this season. Where am I making excuses? It's true that Warriors help> Clippers help. CP3 is simply the better player.

Heavincent

07-03-2015, 11:08 PM

Doesn't change the fact that Curry is nothing without a stacked team.

Chris Paul is nothing WITH a stacked team :oldlol: Second round exit every season while playing with one of the best big men in the game.

livinglegend

07-03-2015, 11:09 PM

11 of the 12 teams Kobe faced between 08 and 10 won 50+ games.

Not like that garbage in the East where you get 1st and sometimes even 2nd round byes.

Number of wins isn't a good indicator of the strength of an opponent.
If that was the case, Hawks would be the 2nd toughest opponent these playoffs.
It's all about matchups.
Lakers had a really easy road to championship in 2009.

Heavincent

07-03-2015, 11:11 PM

Number of wins isn't a good indicator of the strength of

Let me guess, the 2012 Bucks or whoever the **** were better than their sub .500 record indicated.

livinglegend

07-03-2015, 11:11 PM

nzahir

07-03-2015, 11:12 PM

Who cares? Does anybody actually care about Chris Paul? Guy has been in the league for a decade and has absolutely nothing to show for it.

Nobody's gonna remember Chris Paul in 30 years. :confusedshrug: Why waste our time talking about him now? He's a bonafide loser.
Bro shut up, im not even a cp3 fan. This guy may end up in top 3-5 assists of all time if he keeps playing. Thats not nothing. Nash, kidd, payton, stockton won nothing in their primes(im not counting kidd and gary winning it as role guys). They did make it to he conference finals or finals but still never won it all.

livinglegend

07-03-2015, 11:12 PM

Let me guess, the 2012 Bucks or whoever the **** were better than their sub .500 record indicated.

No.
2009 Rockets without Yao, T-Mac were way worse than their record.

warriorfan

07-03-2015, 11:14 PM

The Warriors are the best team in the league, legitimately go 10 deep and have the best defense in the league. CP has never been on a team that good.

the corpse of david lee, livingston, barbosa, mcadoo, rush, ezeli

Dat bench doe

TheMarkMadsen

07-03-2015, 11:14 PM

The Warriors are the best team in the league, legitimately go 10 deep and have the best defense in the league. CP has never been on a team that good.

Blake Griffin is better then anybody on the warriors not named Curry.

Curry has a rookie coach, Doc is a proven championship coach

Paul's front court is better than Currys

You guys and your excuses :oldlol: :oldlol:

Warriors weren't even considered to be championship contenders at the beginning of the season..

Bankaii

07-03-2015, 11:16 PM

Chris Paul is nothing WITH a stacked team :oldlol: Second round exit every season while playing with one of the best big men in the game.
2008 Hornets were stacked? Say whatever you want, Curry lost MVP to a role player.

livinglegend

07-03-2015, 11:18 PM

the corpse of david lee, livingston, barbosa, mcadoo, rush, ezeli

Dat bench doe

They had one of the best defensive player in the league Bogut coming off the bench. They were that good.
They also started the finals with FMVP off the bench.

STACKED

Young X

07-03-2015, 11:19 PM

Blake Griffin is better then anybody on the warriors not named Curry.

Curry has a rookie coach, Doc is a proven championship coach

Paul's front court is better than Currys

You guys and your excuses :oldlol: :oldlol:

Warriors weren't even considered to be championship contenders at the beginning of the season..Clippers also had the worst bench in the league and a mediocre defense while the Warriors went 10-11 deep and had the #1 defense.

Then compare the opponents CP3 faces every postseason to what Curry went up against. It's not even close.

DMAVS41

07-03-2015, 11:20 PM

He should.

Not a good look for CP3 these last couple years....two epic playoff chokes and runs an all star out of town.

CP3 still one of the best pg's ever though...nothing can change that.

Heavincent

07-03-2015, 11:21 PM

And I don't care about your stupid opinion, you were a Kobe Stan, not a Warriors fan before this season. Where am I making excuses? It's true that Warriors help> Clippers help. CP3 is simply the better player.

Your entire argument is based on excuses and stupid hypothetical scenarios.

Everything the Warriors do on offense is predicated on the defensive attention Curry draws. He's doubled as soon as he steps into the front court. Put ANY other PG in place of him and the offense suffers. Notice how often the Warriors get to play 4-on-3 in the half court due to Steph drawing two defenders. This isn't reflected in his assist totals, so you actually have to, you know...watch the games. No other player in the league draws as much attention as he does.

I'll take Curry's ability to completely dominate a game and strike fear into defenses just by standing there over Chris Paul's pretty assist/TO ratio. Call me when Chris Paul leads his team to 67 wins, wins MVP, averages 28/6/5 in the playoffs, and wins a title. He's never done anything remotely close to that before.

The Warriors are really ****ing good, but Curry is their only superstar. I just don't buy the excuses for CP3. He's not playing with scrubs.

Heavincent

07-03-2015, 11:23 PM

Clippers also had the worst bench in the league and a mediocre defense while the Warriors went 10-11 deep and had the #1 defense.

Then compare the opponents CP3 faces every postseason to what Curry went up against. It's not even close.

Clippers had plenty of depth in 2013-14. Still lost in the second round.

TheMarkMadsen

07-03-2015, 11:23 PM

Milbuck

07-03-2015, 11:23 PM

2008 Hornets were stacked? Say whatever you want, Curry lost MVP to a role player.
Curry put up 26/5/6 on 59% TS against constant double and triple teams. There were times when the Cavs literally didn't guard Iggy at all. The difference in defensive attention between the two is laughable, in fact if anything Klay, Barnes, and others deserve to get trashed for blowing so much ass despite so much attention being shifted to Curry. The guy is the Dirk of point guards, his presence on the court alone makes everything easier for his teammates.

DMAVS41

07-03-2015, 11:27 PM

Curry put up 26/5/6 on 59% TS against constant double and triple teams. There were times when the Cavs literally didn't guard Iggy at all. The difference in defensive attention between the two is laughable, in fact if anything Klay, Barnes, and others deserve to get trashed for blowing so much ass despite so much attention being shifted to Curry. The guy is the Dirk of point guards, his presence on the court alone makes everything easier for his teammates.

So much truth here and above.

CP3 is a great...all time great point. No doubt, but people under-rate Curry. No, I don't think Curry is on the Lebron level in impact, but he's was as good or better than anyone else this year...

I like the Dirk comparison for a variety of reasons.

One being that Curry plays under-rated defense at this point in his career. Like Dirk, he struggled very early on, but has rounded into being a plus average defender at his position.

And yes...his impact off the ball and on pick and rolls, like Dirk, is historic.

People need to stop acting like Curry isn't already an all time great player. He is and has been for a couple years now....

Young X

07-03-2015, 11:37 PM

Clippers had plenty of depth in 2013-14. Still lost in the second round.Lost to the KD/Westbrook led Thunder without HCA. Who did the Warriors face in the 2nd round?

Heavincent

07-03-2015, 11:40 PM

Lost to the KD/Westbrook led Thunder without HCA. Who did the Warriors face in the 2nd round?

The Grizzlies, who backdoor swept Chris Paul's team in 2013.

Chris Paul let his team blow a 3-1 lead (one of those 3 wins was without him) to a Houston team that Curry annihilated.

Young X

07-03-2015, 11:48 PM

The Grizzlies, who backdoor swept Chris Paul's team in 2013.

Chris Paul let his team blow a 3-1 lead (one of those 3 wins was without him) to a Houston team that Curry annihilated.Same Grizzlies with a blind Mike Conley and injured Tony Allen (series was 2-1 Memphis before he got injured)?

We're really gonna compare that to the KD/Westbrook Thunder?

sd3035

07-03-2015, 11:48 PM

CP0 will always be a loser, he's just not a top tier player

DMAVS41

07-03-2015, 11:51 PM

He plays in the toughest conference in league history.

True, but at some point...if you want to be known in a certain class...you actually have to get shit done once or twice.

I agree Paul hasn't been in situations perfect for title runs, but he's also been on teams more than good enough for one or two trips past the 2nd round.

Especially these last 2 years in which it's been 2 epic choke jobs by him and his team.

KG215

07-03-2015, 11:54 PM

so does the current nba champions led by their MVP point guard :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:
CP3 has never played on a team as deep, balanced, or as good as the 2015 Warriors.

Young X

07-03-2015, 11:55 PM

True, but at some point...if you want to be known in a certain class...you actually have to get shit done once or twice.

I agree Paul hasn't been in situations perfect for title runs, but he's also been on teams more than good enough for one or two trips past the 2nd round.

Especially these last 2 years in which it's been 2 epic choke jobs by him and his team.Hard to "get shit done" when you're facing elite teams every single round of your career and your teams completely collapse when you leave the floor...

Everybody has "chokejobs". Difference is CP3 never played on teams that can bail him out. We would be talking about Curry's 5-23 game in the same way if his teammates didn't step up and help him.

TheMarkMadsen

07-03-2015, 11:59 PM

Hard to "get shit done" when you're facing elite teams every single round of your career and your teams completely collapse when you leave the floor...

Everybody has "chokejobs". Difference is CP3 never played on teams that can bail him out. We would be talking about Curry's 5-23 game in the same way if his teammates didn't step up and help him.

GSW lost that game so whats your point..

Curry bounced back huge the rest of the series

DMAVS41

07-04-2015, 12:00 AM

Hard to "get shit done" when you're facing elite teams every single round of your career and you're teams completely collapse when you leave the floor...

Everybody has "chokejobs". Difference is CP3 never played on teams that can bail him out. We would be talking about Curry's 5-23 game if his teammates didn't step up.

Curry lost his 5-23 game, but I agree with your point about circumstances really mattering.

I'm with you on that, but these last 2 years man...Paul has nobody to blame but himself...the choke against OKC was all him...and it's on him to not let his team blow that lead at home to end a series.

You are also right that every player has choke jobs...etc, but the difference...at least with a lot of other all timers....is that they have a few more special moments (like Paul's game 7 against the Spurs this year)...

Part of being a great basketball player is being able to sustain excellent play and lead in the playoffs. A lot of guys can do it for a series, but doing it for more than that is where it really gets hard.

CP3 is without a doubt one of the best guards of all time, but I also do think he's a bit over-rated at times...and definitely don't think his stats are indicative of his true impact. Paul doesn't press the envelope enough and while his efficiency/numbers might look better for it...his wins/losses don't imo.

Young X

07-04-2015, 12:23 AM

Curry lost his 5-23 game, but I agree with your point about circumstances really mattering.

I'm with you on that, but these last 2 years man...Paul has nobody to blame but himself...the choke against OKC was all him...and it's on him to not let his team blow that lead at home to end a series.

You are also right that every player has choke jobs...etc, but the difference...at least with a lot of other all timers....is that they have a few more special moments (like Paul's game 7 against the Spurs this year)...

Part of being a great basketball player is being able to sustain excellent play and lead in the playoffs. A lot of guys can do it for a series, but doing it for more than that is where it really gets hard.

CP3 is without a doubt one of the best guards of all time, but I also do think he's a bit over-rated at times...and definitely don't think his stats are indicative of his true impact. Paul doesn't press the envelope enough and while his efficiency/numbers might look better for it...his wins/losses don't imo.You need to be on great/championship level teams to go deep in the western conference. What team has CP3 ever been on that was at championship level? Besides your '08 Mavs he's literally faced an elite team in every single round of his career. Most as the lower seed without HCA. You're not winning a title against the level of competition he's faced without being on a great team.

And I don't agree with you about his impact. It's easy to just look at a player's team success and judge his impact. CP3's teams play at a ridiculous level offensively with him on the court and a number of players have had some of their best seasons playing alongside of him. Look at the Clippers before he got there and compare it to how good they've been over the past 4 seasons. He basically made one of the worst franchises in sports history relevant.

Bankaii

07-04-2015, 12:28 AM

Your entire argument is based on excuses and stupid hypothetical scenarios.

Everything the Warriors do on offense is predicated on the defensive attention Curry draws. He's doubled as soon as he steps into the front court. Put ANY other PG in place of him and the offense suffers. Notice how often the Warriors get to play 4-on-3 in the half court due to Steph drawing two defenders. This isn't reflected in his assist totals, so you actually have to, you know...watch the games. No other player in the league draws as much attention as he does.

I'll take Curry's ability to completely dominate a game and strike fear into defenses just by standing there over Chris Paul's pretty assist/TO ratio. Call me when Chris Paul leads his team to 67 wins, wins MVP, averages 28/6/5 in the playoffs, and wins a title. He's never done anything remotely close to that before.

The Warriors are really ****ing good, but Curry is their only superstar. I just don't buy the excuses for CP3. He's not playing with scrubs.
And your entire opinion is biased as hell. I'm neutral, I like CP3 but Curry is my favorite player. And for the last damn time, I'm not making excuses. There is no reason CP3 has never been to the Finals, and it affects his resume heavily. But Curry hasn't done anything notable outside of this year, a stacked team. The Warriors win because of their defense and Curry is their worst defender.

However, he is simply a better player than Curry. He is the better play maker, it's close, but CP3 makes his teammates a lot better. DJ is a athletic poor mans Motumbo without CP3. CP3 has better intangibles and is the better leader. Also, defense is half the game and CP3 blows Curry away in that category.

DMAVS41

07-04-2015, 12:28 AM

You need to be on great/championship level teams to go deep in the western conference. What team has CP3 ever been on that was at championship level? Besides your '08 Mavs he's literally faced an elite team in every single round of his career. Most as the lower seed without HCA. You're not winning a title against the level of competition he's faced without being on a great team.

And I don't agree with you about his impact. It's easy to just look at a player's team success and judge his impact. CP3's teams play at a ridiculous level offensively with him on the court and a number of players have had some of their best seasons playing alongside of him. Look at the Clippers before he got there and compare it to how good they've been over the past 4 seasons. He basically made one of the worst franchises in sports history relevant.

Yea...you under-rate his help these last two years. Acting like those aren't championship level teams is absurd.

Not saying they should have won it or something, but acting like they aren't championship caliber...nah...that's just not true.

Again, I'm not claiming CP3 isn't one of the best ever...he is.

I'm saying I don't think his impact is as great as some of his biggest supporters claim.

And I think you probably fall into that category...you just can't claim the 14 and 15 Clippers as "pretenders"

So what does that mean? That the 06 and 11 Mavs also weren't title contenders? That might make sense if the 11 Mavs didn't win.

That is my problem a bit here....you have to do special shit to reach a certain level. Part of being great at playing basketball is the ability to get shit done. Not every year, not all the time as the underdog, but I just don't think it's asking too much from CP3 to have made one deep run in the playoffs in his career at this point.

And I think part of the reason why that hasn't happened is that Paul isn't as good as people like you tend to claim.

LA_Showtime

07-04-2015, 12:35 AM

Yea...you under-rate his help these last two years. Acting like those aren't championship level teams is absurd.

Not saying they should have won it or something, but acting like they aren't championship caliber...nah...that's just not true.

Again, I'm not claiming CP3 isn't one of the best ever...he is.

I'm saying I don't think his impact is as great as some of his biggest supporters claim.

And I think you probably fall into that category...you just can't claim the 14 and 15 Clippers as "pretenders"

So what does that mean? That the 06 and 11 Mavs also weren't title contenders? That might make sense if the 11 Mavs didn't win.

That is my problem a bit here....you have to do special shit to reach a certain level. Part of being great at playing basketball is the ability to get shit done. Not every year, not all the time as the underdog, but I just don't think it's asking too much from CP3 to have made one deep run in the playoffs in his career at this point.

And I think part of the reason why that hasn't happened is that Paul isn't as good as people like you tend to claim.

Wish we could've seen Paul minus the knee injury he sustained however many years ago. Probably would've been in the conversation with Magic as the best point guard of all-time.

Young X

07-04-2015, 12:37 AM

Yea...you under-rate his help these last two years. Acting like those aren't championship level teams is absurd.

Not saying they should have won it or something, but acting like they aren't championship caliber...nah...that's just not true.

Again, I'm not claiming CP3 isn't one of the best ever...he is.

I'm saying I don't think his impact is as great as some of his biggest supporters claim.

And I think you probably fall into that category...you just can't claim the 14 and 15 Clippers as "pretenders"

So what does that mean? That the 06 and 11 Mavs also weren't title contenders? That might make sense if the 11 Mavs didn't win.

That is my problem a bit here....you have to do special shit to reach a certain level. Part of being great at playing basketball is the ability to get shit done. Not every year, not all the time as the underdog, but I just don't think it's asking too much from CP3 to have made one deep run in the playoffs in his career at this point.

And I think part of the reason why that hasn't happened is that Paul isn't as good as people like you tend to claim.How many teams have won championships while not being elite on the defensive end? Or at least top 10?

How many championship teams have had the worst bench in the league?

DMAVS41

07-04-2015, 12:43 AM

How many teams have won championships while not being elite on the defensive end? Or at least top 10?

What championship teams have had the worst bench in the league?

The 14 Clippers were the top ranked offense and the 9th best defense.

During the year...The Clippers were plus 11.1 points per 100 with Paul...and plus 2 points per 100 without him.

A team that went 13-7 without Paul

As a frame of reference.

The 11 Mavs were the 8th best offense and 8th best defense.

During the year...the Mavs were plus 10.6 points per 100 with Dirk...and minus 5.4 points per 100 without him.

A team that went 2-7 without Dirk.

Again, I'm not saying they should have won or anything...just don't tell me they didn't have a chance and weren't serious contenders. They were both of the last 2 years. Paul and his team just had 2 epic choke jobs and it's mattering a lot right now because Paul doesn't have much else in his career to fall back on in terms of success in the playoffs.

Young X

07-04-2015, 12:51 AM

The 14 Clippers were the top ranked offense and the 9th best defense.

During the year...The Clippers were plus 11.1 points per 100 with Paul...and plus 2 points per 100 without him.

As a frame of reference.

The 11 Mavs were the 8th best offense and 8th best defense.

During the year...the Mavs were plus 10.6 points per 100 with Dirk...and minus 5.4 points per 100 without him.

Again, I'm not saying they should have won or anything...just don't tell me they didn't have a chance and weren't serious contenders. They were both of the last 2 years. Paul and his team just had 2 epic choke jobs and it's mattering a lot right now because Paul doesn't have much else in his career to fall back on in terms of success in the playoffs.Look what happened in the playoffs that season...

The Clippers were +7.1 with CP3 on the floor and -15.1 with him on the bench.

And in the OKC series specifically they were +9.0 with him on the floor. He averaged 22.5 - 11.8 on 61.1 TS% in that series.

DMAVS41

07-04-2015, 12:55 AM

Look what happened in the playoffs that season...

The Clippers were +7.1 with CP3 on the floor and -15.1 with him on the bench.

And in the OKC series specifically they were +9.0 with him on the floor. He averaged 22.5 - 11.8 on 61.1 TS% in that series.

CP3 is a great player....did I say he played poorly overall or something? Nope.

You asked for an example...I gave it to you...then you changed the subject.

I'm not refuting that CP3 is an amazing player and one of the best ever.

I'm refuting your claim that he's never played on a contender.

Do you still claim he's never been on a contender?

gts

07-04-2015, 12:59 AM

CP3 has never played on a team as deep, balanced, or as good as the 2015 Warriors.most players haven't

The Clippers team last two seasons was more than talented enough to get the job done

Young X

07-04-2015, 01:03 AM

CP3 is a great player....did I say he played poorly overall or something? Nope.

You asked for an example...I gave it to you...then you changed the subject.

I'm not refuting that CP3 is an amazing player and one of the best ever.

I'm refuting your claim that he's never played on a contender.

Do you still claim he's never been on a contender?The '14 Clippers were probably a contender. Maybe the '08 Hornets too.

Those were his best and only chances of realistically winning. Neither of those teams were great though, both had too many weaknesses.

DMAVS41

07-04-2015, 01:09 AM

The '14 Clippers were probably a contender. Maybe the '08 Hornets too.

Those were his best and only chances of realistically winning. Neither of those teams were great though, both had too many weaknesses.

Agreed.

So like I said, not favorites by any means, but also not pretenders.

And while I generally do not put any weight into this playoff failure shit when a player plays great routinely like Paul (dealt with it for years with Dirk even though he actually had done stuff)...

I do think there is a little criticism that should go Paul's way for the last 2 years and how the Clippers lost.

Changes nothing about him the player. He's great...one of the best ever. I'd just like to see him show the basketball ability to lead a team deep in the playoffs.

I think he can, but I can't ignore the last 2 years.

LA_Showtime

07-04-2015, 01:11 AM

DMAVS41

07-04-2015, 01:32 AM

This is more about Dallas than Paul chasing off Jordan. For Christ sake's Parson's spent 4.5 hours with DJ and Cuban - AFTER THEY GOT HIS VERBAL COMMITMENT - announced to everyone that he was a franchise player.

Not really.

ESPN has detailed many reasons why DJ left....not the least of which was the relationship of Paul and DJ.

Just another part of being a great basketball player....being a great teammate.

DMAVS41

07-04-2015, 01:36 AM

He deserves criticism for the terrible way he ended game 5 against OKC. To me that was the one time where his team could've went deeper in the playoffs and he got in the way by underperforming. And even in that series he played at a high level outside of that moment...would've won the series if the team didn't massively drop off without him.

Outside of that I don't really blame him for anything, his teams weaknesses have very, very little to do with him and he's played extremely well.

I feel like this where a bit of the issue lies.

I don't think it's fair to "blame" CP3 either. That implies he played terribly or was the main reason his team lost or something. Don't feel that way...even in 14.

Winning in the playoffs is really hard and the margins are really slim...it often takes special levels of play...especially on non dominant teams like CP3 has played with.

sd3035

07-04-2015, 01:38 AM

Not really.

ESPN has detailed many reasons why DJ left....not the least of which was the relationship of Paul and CP3.

Just another part of being a great basketball player....being a great teammate.

:biggums:

DMAVS41

07-04-2015, 01:40 AM

:biggums:

Paul and DJ...sorry

Or maybe Cliff Paul and Chris Paul have a bad relationship?

Young X

07-04-2015, 01:50 AM

I feel like this where a bit of the issue lies.

I don't think it's fair to "blame" CP3 either. That implies he played terribly or was the main reason his team lost or something. Don't feel that way...even in 14.

Winning in the playoffs is really hard and the margins are really slim...it often takes special levels of play...especially on non dominant teams like CP3 has played with.You also need luck and easy matchups which CP3 hasn't had any part of at all. He's played the toughest competition out of any elite player...hasn't even faced a sub 50 win team in the playoffs. Just look at this year, his team wins 56 games and he gets rewarded with having to face the defending champs in the 1st round.

No player has been affected by the conference diparity more than CP. Put him in the east or let him face the weak ass competition that the Warriors did and you'll get much better team results.

DMAVS41

07-04-2015, 01:53 AM

You also need luck and easy matchups which CP3 hasn't had any part of at all. He's played the toughest competition out of any elite player...hasn't even faced a sub 50 win team in the playoffs. Just look at this year, his team wins 56 games and he gets rewarded with having to face the defending champs in the 1st round.

No player has been affected by the conference diparity more than CP. Put him in the east or let him face the weak competition that the Warriors did and you'll get much better team results.

You definitely need luck...and he'd definitely do way better in the East.

Still think is a bit of a red herring in relation to my point, but on point to the normal morons who claim CP3 is a playoff choker or something.

KG215

07-04-2015, 01:58 AM

most players haven't

The Clippers team last two seasons was more than talented enough to get the job done
I agree, but Curry winning a title this year shouldn't be used against Paul in my opinion. This year's team had the star power but their bench was awful. It was a Clipper team that you really couldn't be comfortable going more than 6 or 7 deep. Paul hasn't ever been on a particularly deep team, and Blake didn't seem to really emerge until last year. They had OKC on the ropes in that series, too, and Paul deserves a lot of blame for their game 5 meltdown/chokejob. He finished that game with a turnover trying to shoot a three 90-feet from the basket thinking he was going to get fouled, fouling Westbrook on a 3, and turning the ball over on the last possession of the game.

LA_Showtime

07-04-2015, 02:24 AM

Not really.

ESPN has detailed many reasons why DJ left....not the least of which was the relationship of Paul and DJ.

Just another part of being a great basketball player....being a great teammate.

Of course they're going to blame Cp3, it's ESPN. That's the type of shit that grabs headlines. But I think more importantly, Dallas made Jordan feel wanted and they showed him how they'd utilize him to reach his full potential as a basketball player. I said it the other day that I thought he was as good as gone because it sounded like he wanted to spread his wings and see if he's got the ability to expand his game.

Spurs m8

07-04-2015, 02:47 AM

Chris Paul did this on purpose so he can use a bad team as an excuse for not winning

LOL

sfballa13

07-04-2015, 03:06 AM

Jamal Crawford and CP3
for
Kyrie Irving and Varejao

CP3/Delladova
Shumpert/Crawford
Lebron/JR Smith
Love/Thompson
Mozgov

SwishSquared

07-04-2015, 03:09 AM

Jamal Crawford and CP3
for
Kyrie Irving and Varejao

CP3/Delladova
Shumpert/Crawford
Lebron/JR Smith
Love/Thompson
MozgovClippers say yes and Cavs say no imo. Kyrie's making $19M/year for at least 4 more years. CP3 makes more per year, can leave in two years, and we should expect him to decline physically over that time. Dumping Varajao's deal is good for the Cavs cap-wise, but LBJ wants him around.

Bankaii

07-04-2015, 04:04 AM

Jamal Crawford and CP3
for
Kyrie Irving and Varejao

CP3/Delladova
Shumpert/Crawford
Lebron/JR Smith
Love/Thompson
Mozgov
JR and Crawford on the same team:roll:
The freakin rim would fall off.

senelcoolidge

07-04-2015, 12:07 PM

Some sources said that DJ was not black enough for Chris Paul.

GoSpursGo1984

07-04-2015, 01:51 PM

So much truth here and above.

CP3 is a great...all time great point. No doubt, but people under-rate Curry. No, I don't think Curry is on the Lebron level in impact, but he's was as good or better than anyone else this year...

I like the Dirk comparison for a variety of reasons.

One being that Curry plays under-rated defense at this point in his career. Like Dirk, he struggled very early on, but has rounded into being a plus average defender at his position.

And yes...his impact off the ball and on pick and rolls, like Dirk, is historic.

People need to stop acting like Curry isn't already an all time great player. He is and has been for a couple years now....

How can you be considered an all time great when you have not won an MVP or even got to the Finals? This means Carmelo is an all time great then. So is Tracy Mcgrady

DMAVS41

07-04-2015, 01:57 PM

How can you be considered an all time great when you have not won an MVP or even got to the Finals? This means Carmelo is an all time great then. So is Tracy Mcgrady

This seams like semantics, but I think CP3 deserves to be considered better than Carmelo for example.

I think how a player plays is always this most important thing...and Paul has routinely played very well overall in the playoffs.

Way way way way better than Melo has in the playoffs.

As for T-Mac...he's hard to place because of his injuries...a healthy T-Mac is definitely an all time great player. LOL

GoSpursGo1984

07-04-2015, 02:32 PM

This seams like semantics, but I think CP3 deserves to be considered better than Carmelo for example.

I think how a player plays is always this most important thing...and Paul has routinely played very well overall in the playoffs.

Way way way way better than Melo has in the playoffs.

As for T-Mac...he's hard to place because of his injuries...a healthy T-Mac is definitely an all time great player. LOL

My argument was not for who was better it was just you can not call CP3 an all time great then not call others like Carmelo not an all time great both have achieved about the same thing.

DMAVS41

07-04-2015, 02:37 PM

My argument was not for who was better it was just you can not call CP3 an all time great then not call others like Carmelo not an all time great both have achieved about the same thing.

And my answer is that Paul is a clearly better player than Melo.

You do realize that people actually care about how well players play the damn game...right?

ISH at times is this fake world where people only think about rings. This just isn't how the real world of basketball works.

People care about things like scoring efficiency, playing defense, not being a ball stopper on offense...etc.

The reason Paul is known as an all time great and better than Melo...is because he's a better basketball player.

It's not hard to follow if you can free your brain from the idiotic "ring count" ISH...

Now, I'm not saying winning doesn't matter or anything, but you have to first look at how good a player is. It's easily the most important thing.

Quickening

07-04-2015, 02:49 PM

My argument was not for who was better it was just you can not call CP3 an all time great then not call others like Carmelo not an all time great both have achieved about the same thing.

Basketball is a team sport, this isn't tennis retard.

Kobe peak/prime as a player, he was missing playoffs and exiting first round... ability and performance of a single player doesn't always mean championships.

LOL at CP3 not being an all time great, top 3 PG ever.

Fiasco

07-04-2015, 02:50 PM

Clippers say yes and Cavs say no imo. Kyrie's making $19M/year for at least 4 more years. CP3 makes more per year, can leave in two years, and we should expect him to decline physically over that time. Dumping Varajao's deal is good for the Cavs cap-wise, but LBJ wants him around.

As much as I love watching Kyrie, there's no way you trade for CP3 for him him after he's injured his left knee 4 times in the last four years.