Replace Pippen's 15 ppg on 34% from 96' Finals with 2011 or 2012 Wade

[3ball]

Troll thread to combat Dubeta's troll thread:
Oh wait.. MJ won anyway... Nevermind.

Okay, then put 2011 or 2012 Wade in place of Pippen's 15 PPG on 41% in the 1998 Finals...

Oh wait.. MJ won anyway again.. I guess MJ can win multiple championships with his #2 only averaging 15 PPG on sub-40 TS, and Lebron can't even win 1.
.

[J Shuttlesworth]

How about Pippen's 21/9.4/6.6/2.4/1 in 91?
21/8/7.7/1.5 in 92?
21.8./9.2/7.7/2/1 in 93?
20/8/3.5/1.7/1.8 in 97?
16/7/5/1.7 in 98?

And 96 wasn't even that bad. 15.7/8.2/5.3/2.3/1.3? Give that to LeBron this finals instead of JR or Shump, and you have the chip. Those numbers above are all better than what Wade or Bush put up in the 2014 finals.

And let's not forget Pippen is doing all this while being the greatest defensive perimeter player all time.

[SouBeachTalents]

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-06-11/sports/9806110398_1_scottie-pippen-bulls-karl-malone
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/635114/What-about-Pippen-for-NBA-Finals-MVP.html?pg=all


Jackson called Kukoc the X-factor in the game. But Pippen was the deciding factor. He was at his best in the first half, scoring all 10 of his points as the Bulls jumped to a 49-31 lead. Defensifvely, Pippen dominated. He opened the game defending the offensively limited Greg Ostertag. That matchup allowed Pippen to roam and disrupt the Utah offense. He slid in front of Karl Malone on two occasions to draw a charge. He popped outside and made life unbearable for Stockton, who finished with two points and five turnovers.

Indeed, the normally sure-handed Jazz turned the ball over 26 times. With Pippen on the perimeter, every entry pass into the low post became and adventure.

"It's a luxury for us to have a defender like Scottie," Jackson said. "He's able to hang tight with whoever he's playing and recover to help on our defensive sets so Utah can't operate.

"Scottie is capable of being a one-man wrecking crew, and this was a pure example of that. His defense is what really blew the game open."

More to basketball than scoring

[dubeta]

Wade averaged 15 ppg on 44% during an entire championship run, not just a series (2013)


This proves that not only can LeBron win a championship with a 15 ppg scorer, but he doesnt need an elite defender with him to win


OTOH OP is complete discrediting Pippens defensive impact, as that accounts for 50% of Pippens production


For an unbiased apples-to-apples comparision, you would need to find a 2nd option averaging 24+ ppg just to equal Pippens 15ppg with GOAT level defense


Thats like me saying Wade was never a good 2nd option because he only averaged 5 rebounds a game, completely irrelevant to what their strengths lie in



CLIFFS: Jordan couldnt win more than 1 playoff (cumulatively) game without Pippen, while Pippen was able to win 2 less games without Jordan 55 games vs 57 (1994)

[3ball]

And 96 wasn't even that bad.


Pippen shot 34% FG and 42% TS in the 1996 Finals.. That might be the worst anyone with material volume has ever shot in the Finals - seriously - it might be.

It wouldn't even matter if he averaged 30 PPG at those percentages - he had a horrific series.. Yet he only averaged 15 PPG... on 34%... WOAT

[dubeta]

http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2015/04/07ca878fba71bdc057e92dfeeeb2a3ce.gif

Imagine a defensive juggernaut, taking away the best teams scorer in each series. ie. Durant drops from 30 ppg to 15. Melo drops his ppg from 25 to 15ppg on worse efficiency etc. Westbrook gets neutralized

This advantage allows the opposing teams offense to be completely neutralized slowing the pace, and not requiring much scoring from the Bulls therefore Pippen scoring only 15 ppg was acceptable


So its Pippins 15ppg average PLUS the 15 ppg he is stopping on the other side of the ball giving a NET impact of +30 ppg for the Bulls in addition to his rebounding and passing.


Taking Pippen away from the Bulls is like subtracting 30 points from the Bulls final score.

Try doing that, subtract the Bulls playoff scores by 30 points from 1991-1998, tell me how many games they would win maybe 1 or 2 at most, forget about winning championships.


And this idea works well, because the Bulls did in fact only win 1 playoff game without Pippen[/I] proving that my argument makes sense


CLIFFS: Adding Pippen to your roster, is like adding an [I] additional 30 points to your final score on top of whatever the Bulls were able to produce.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Pippen shot 34% FG and 42% TS in the 1996 Finals.. That might be the worst anyone with material volume has ever shot in the Finals - seriously - it might be.

It wouldn't even matter if he averaged 30 PPG at those percentages - he had a horrific series.. Yet he only averaged 15 PPG... on 34%... WOAT
He still supplied decent rebounding, playmaking, steals and blocks. And he's a great defender. Wade was atrocious on defense in 2014. Just going purely off shooting percentage is a mistake, especially with a player like Pippen.

[3ball]

96' wasn't that bad.


I just checked - 15 PPG on 34% field goal percentage IS the WOAT.. Literally the worst of all time.

There is no 2nd option in history that shot so horrifically in the Finals, let alone on such low PPG.

As for his 1998 Finals - again, below-average at best for a 2nd option - 15 PPG on 41%, including 6 and 8 points in the final 2 games... There have been few worse 2nd option performances.

[dubeta]

http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2015/04/07ca878fba71bdc057e92dfeeeb2a3ce.gif



Imagine a defensive juggernaut, taking away the best teams scorer in each series. ie. Durant drops from 30 ppg to 15. Melo drops his ppg from 25 to 15ppg on worse efficiency etc. Westbrook gets neutralized

This advantage allows the opposing teams offense to be completely neutralized slowing the pace, and not requiring much scoring from the Bulls therefore Pippen scoring only 15 ppg was acceptable


So its Pippins 15ppg average PLUS the 15 ppg he is stopping on the other side of the ball giving a NET impact of +30 ppg for the Bulls in addition to his rebounding and passing.


Taking Pippen away from the Bulls is like subtracting 30 points from the Bulls final score.

Try doing that, subtract the Bulls playoff scores by 30 points from 1991-1998, tell me how many games they would win maybe 1 or 2 at most, forget about winning championships.


And this idea works well, because the Bulls did in fact only win 1 playoff game without Pippen[/I] proving that my argument makes sense


CLIFFS: Adding Pippen to your roster, is like adding an [I] additional 30 points to your final score on top of whatever the Bulls were able to produce.

[J Shuttlesworth]

I just checked - 15 PPG on 34% field goal percentage IS the WOAT.. Literally the worst of all time.

There is no 2nd option in history that shot so horrifically in the Finals, let alone on such low PPG.

As for his 1998 Finals - again, below-average at best for a 2nd option - 15 PPG on 41%, including 6 and 8 points in the final 2 games... There have been few worse 2nd option performances.
Sure. Let's ignore everything else he did on the floor and act like scoring is the only facet to Pippen's game. That sounds like a good idea.

While we're at it, let's look at Mario Chalmers percentage 2014. 33.3%? WOAT:facepalm

[livinglegend]

FUN FACT: Jordan was 1-9 without Pippen :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:








CLIFFS: 1-9

[3ball]

only can LeBron win a championship with a 15 ppg scorer


Pippen's Playoff Averages:

1996: 16.9 PPG on 39.0%
1997: 19.2 PPG on 41.7%
1998: 16.8 PPG on 41.5%


Lebron has never won a ring with his 2nd option shooting less than 40% for the entire playoff run.

Otoh, as the stats show, MJ 3-peated with a 17 PPG and 40% shooting 2nd option.. :bowdown:

[livinglegend]

Pippen's Playoff Averages:

1996: 16.9 PPG on 39.0%
1997: 19.2 PPG on 41.7%
1998: 16.8 PPG on 41.5%


Lebron has never won a ring with his 2nd option shooting less than 40% for the entire playoff run.

Otoh, as the stats show, MJ 3-peated with a 17 PPG and 40% shooting 2nd option.. :bowdown:

Sorry to disappoint you, but he clearly said 15 ppg.
All I see are stats over 15 ppgs.


next

[3ball]

While we're at it, let's look at Mario Chalmers percentage 2014. 33.3%? WOAT:facepalm


Obviously, Chalmers was not the HOF 2nd option who was expected to carry a significant load..

You obviously don't have any good arguments left if you have to stoop to this horrible, apples and oranges logic.. It's pretty bad.

[3ball]

:facepalm

[3ball]

Sorry to disappoint you, but he clearly said 15 ppg.
All I see are stats over 15 ppgs.


next
Remember, I didn't say MJ won A championship with a 17 PPG, 40% shooting 2nd option.

He THREE-PEATED with a 2nd option that averaged 17 PPG on 40% - those were Pip's playoff averages from 1996-1998..

And Pippen's Finals stats were even worse - 15 PPG on 34% shooting in 1996 Finals, and 15 PPG on 41% in 1998 Finals (including 6 and 8 points in final 2 games).

[warriorfan]

hoes getting 3balled on in this thread

Iguodala was probably the worst or 2nd worst second option of all time. He only averaged 16 ppg on wide open looks the entire time.

[dubeta]

hoes getting 3balled on in this thread

Iguodala was probably the worst or 2nd worst second option of all time. He only averaged 16 ppg on wide open looks the entire time.

He was the bad 2nd option, but a solid 1st option


0/11 other Warriors were better than him

[SouBeachTalents]

hoes getting 3balled on in this thread

Iguodala was probably the worst or 2nd worst second option of all time. He only averaged 16 ppg on wide open looks the entire time.

The Finals MVP voters did not feel the same way

[warriorfan]

He was the bad 2nd option, but a solid 1st option


0/11 other Warriors were better than him

***** just went full retard

[livinglegend]

Remember, I didn't say MJ won A championship with a 17 PPG, 40% shooting 2nd option.

He THREE-PEATED with a 2nd option that averaged 17 PPG on 40% - those were Pip's playoff averages from 1996-1998..

And Pippen's Finals stats were even worse - 15 PPG on 34% shooting in 1996 Finals, and 15 PPG on 41% in 1998 Finals (including 6 and 8 points in final 2 games).

Sorry to disappoint you, but he talked about a whole playoffs run and not just finals.
He said 15 ppg and not 17.

next

[livinglegend]

***** just went full retard

***** you have been full retard since you were born

[dubeta]

***** you have been full retard since you were born

:lebronamazed:

[warriorfan]

levirgin family


:facepalm

[Bankaii]

hoes getting 3balled on in this thread

Iguodala was probably the worst or 2nd worst second option of all time. He only averaged 16 ppg on wide open looks the entire time.
I think you forgot Iggy win FMVP. Steph was the 2nd option.

[livinglegend]

I think you forgot Iggy win FMVP. Steph was the 2nd option.

He didn't.
He will forget his own name before forgetting that.
That hit him hard. :roll: :roll:

[Bankaii]

3ball I want you to answer this straight up yes or no. Did Jordan go 1-9 before Pippen came? YES OR NO?

[livinglegend]

3ball I want you to answer this straight up yes or no. Did Jordan go 1-9 before Pippen came? YES OR NO?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Cold blooded ownage :applause: :applause:

[3ball]

http://s12.postimg.org/fiwmzsvn1/CIu6g_DI.jpg



Agreed.. Lebron played FAR worse competition than MJ did..

The best team Lebron beat was going 7 with Hibbert/George, which is DIMENSIONS below sweeping Shaq/Penny... And Hibbert/George are also dimensions below the Bad Boys or Riley's Knicks.





Did Jordan go 1-9 before Pippen came? YES OR NO?


1-9 with no all-stars (against the aforementioned superior competition).

Otoh, Zydrunas Illgauskas was named an all-star in 2003 and 2005, which means Lebron missed the playoffs in 2005 despite having an All-Star on his team.. And when Lebron won his first playoff game in 2006 against Gilbert Arenas' powerhouse Wizards, he did so with the help of a 2-time All-Star.

Otoh, MJ never played with an all-star, or anything NEAR that during his early playoff career... But once he got just 1 all-star, he went 6/6.. Whereas, Lebron missed the playoffs despite having an all-star, and only went 2/4 with two all-stars in Miami.
.

[Nash]

3ball, who are you so obsessed with comparing jordan to Lebron? Why not Kareem or anybody else.
Clearly you hate lebron more than you actually like Jordan.

[Bankaii]

1-9.
This is all I read because it's all I asked for, and you still couldn't put a simple yes. I don't need your bullshit false context.

Also, you act as if Pippen was trash and Jordan never had any help, so why should having no All starts all of a sudden matter now?

[3ball]

Clearly you hate lebron more than you actually like Jordan.


I don't hate Lebron at all.. I hate how he's compared to MJ.

He isn't anywhere close.. People actually think it's close.. I've been trying to explain how it isn't.

Maybe after Lebron has a few more cakewalks to the Finals and ends up 2/11... THEN people will finally start scratching their head... Hmmm... How could this guy be anywhere near MJ?

Lebron's less diverse and less adjustable style prevents his teams from using optimal, cutting edge strategy.. Instead, it's the opposite - Lebron's Finals opponents are the ones employing the superior, cutting-edge strategy (i.e. Spurs, Dallas, Warriors) - they're the teams that are considered the "smart" teams in the league, not Lebron's.

Otoh, MJ's teams were like the Warriors, Dallas, or Spurs - they employed cutting edge strategy and were perceived as one of the league's smart teams.. MJ's GOAT offensive sophistication (http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-02-2015/9VPzJD.gif) provided the necessary adjustability and capacity to be the centerpiece of cutting edge strategy (the triangle).

Unfortunately, Lebron-ball's rigid, straightforward approach means it can never be part of a smart team that uses cutting edge strategy... This precludes him from ever being part of an all-time great team.. All-time great teams are always smart teams that use cutting edge strategy over an extended period of time, which gives the team a sustainable advantage on the rest of the league (i.e. Pistons, Bulls, Celtics, Spurs).
.

[3ball]

Maybe after Lebron has a few more cakewalks to the Finals and ends up 2/11, THEN people will finally start scratching their head... Hmmm... How could this guy be anywhere near MJ?

Lebron's less diverse and less adjustable style prevents his teams from using optimal, cutting edge strategy.. Instead, it's the opposite - Lebron's Finals opponents are the ones employing the superior, cutting-edge strategy (i.e. Spurs, Dallas, Warriors) - they're the teams that are considered the "smart" teams in the league, not Lebron's.

Otoh, MJ's teams were like the Warriors, Dallas, or Spurs - they employed cutting edge strategy and were perceived as one of the league's smart teams.. MJ's GOAT offensive sophistication (http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-02-2015/9VPzJD.gif) provided the necessary adjustability and capacity to be the centerpiece of cutting edge strategy (the triangle).

Unfortunately, Lebron-ball's rigid, straightforward approach means it can never be part of a smart team that uses cutting edge strategy... This precludes him from ever being part of an all-time great team.. All-time great teams are always smart teams that use cutting edge strategy over an extended period of time, which gives the team a sustainable advantage on the rest of the league (i.e. Pistons, Bulls, Celtics, Spurs).


Also, MJ employed a more optimal, off-ball style that allowed him to achieve GOAT stats without diminishing the stats of teammates - imagine if Bosh's stats REMAINED at 20/10 alongside Lebron..

That's what happened for Pippen and Kukoc alongside MJ, while Kerr/Paxson/BJ never sucked like Chalmers/Cole/Battier.. Teammates didn't have to abandon their comfort zones alongside MJ and could maintain their normal statistical production, which maximized the team's production and prevented underachievement.. In hindsight, 6/6 is no surprise.

[nzahir]

But was Mj 1-9 without scottie?
If you dont answer the question then nothing you state is true

[warriorfan]

But was Mj 1-9 without scottie?
If you dont answer the question then nothing you state is true

http://s21.postimg.org/4bx9g9el1/The_Best_Ending.gif

[LAZERUSS]

How about Pippen's 21/9.4/6.6/2.4/1 in 91?
21/8/7.7/1.5 in 92?
21.8./9.2/7.7/2/1 in 93?
20/8/3.5/1.7/1.8 in 97?
16/7/5/1.7 in 98?

And 96 wasn't even that bad. 15.7/8.2/5.3/2.3/1.3? Give that to LeBron this finals instead of JR or Shump, and you have the chip. Those numbers above are all better than what Wade or Bush put up in the 2014 finals.

And let's not forget Pippen is doing all this while being the greatest defensive perimeter player all time.

Jordan, himself, wasn't all that great in his '96 Finals, either (27-5-4 on a .415 FG%.) Fortunately for him, he had the best defensive roster in the league.

[Trollsmasher]

http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2015/04/07ca878fba71bdc057e92dfeeeb2a3ce.gif

Imagine a defensive juggernaut, taking away the best teams scorer in each series. ie. Durant drops from 30 ppg to 15. Melo drops his ppg from 25 to 15ppg on worse efficiency etc. Westbrook gets neutralized

This advantage allows the opposing teams offense to be completely neutralized slowing the pace, and not requiring much scoring from the Bulls therefore Pippen scoring only 15 ppg was acceptable


So its Pippins 15ppg average PLUS the 15 ppg he is stopping on the other side of the ball giving a NET impact of +30 ppg for the Bulls in addition to his rebounding and passing.


Taking Pippen away from the Bulls is like subtracting 30 points from the Bulls final score.

Try doing that, subtract the Bulls playoff scores by 30 points from 1991-1998, tell me how many games they would win maybe 1 or 2 at most, forget about winning championships.


And this idea works well, because the Bulls did in fact only win 1 playoff game without Pippen[/I] proving that my argument makes sense


CLIFFS: Adding Pippen to your roster, is like adding an [I] additional 30 points to your final score on top of whatever the Bulls were able to produce.

1-9 btw

[TheMan]

I just checked - 15 PPG on 34% field goal percentage IS the WOAT.. Literally the worst of all time.

There is no 2nd option in history that shot so horrifically in the Finals, let alone on such low PPG.

As for his 1998 Finals - again, below-average at best for a 2nd option - 15 PPG on 41%, including 6 and 8 points in the final 2 games... There have been few worse 2nd option performances.
To be fair, Pip was struggling with a bad back.

Doesn't matter anyway, the LeStans want to prop Pippen up as though he was a FMVP and leader of a title winning team like Wade was because they have zero arguments that LeBron is better than Jordan, so they only thing left is to claim Pippen was a top 5 GOAT or some shit :rolleyes: Everyone can see through their bullshit but I gotta give them credit, they're persistent af :lol

[Mr Feeny]

Jordan, himself, wasn't all that great in his '96 Finals, either (27-5-4 on a .415 FG%.) Fortunately for him, he had the best defensive roster in the league.

Agreed in the sense that they elevated their play in the finals. Real clutch and mental strength and very much contrary to what Wilt Chamberlain was known for when the stakes were high. 18 ppg in NBA finals for a reason, but I digress.

[Mr Feeny]

To be fair, Pip was struggling with a bad back.

Doesn't matter anyway, the LeStans want to prop Pippen up as though he was a FMVP and leader of a title winning team like Wade was because they have zero arguments that LeBron is better than Jordan, so they only thing left is to claim Pippen was a top 5 GOAT or some shit :rolleyes: Everyone can see through their bullshit but I gotta give them credit, they're persistent af :lol

Nobody is giving him flack for stinking up the place because he had a bad back but the few kids on here who weren't alive back then and are trying to convince themselves that Pippen deserved the finals mvp is just laughable:oldlol: He basically did NOTHING the last two games.

[Ne 1]

But was Mj 1-9 without scottie?
If you dont answer the question then nothing you state is true

You asked a loaded question, and facts without context are meaningless. It's not MJ's fault that he played just 3 out of 10 years of his Bulls career without Pippen. Jordan only had his first 3 seasons without Scottie.

In '85 he was a ROOKIE, yet still led the Bulls to a substantial improvement and had one of the best rookie seasons in NBA history. The #7 seed Bulls went against the #2 seed Bucks in the playoffs and lost 1-3. No big deal. In '86 he only started in 7 regular season games due to injury and they were 5-2 in those games. Chicago as the #8 seed ends up drawing the legendary 86' Celtics and lost 0-3. In '87 he had one of the worst supporting casts in history (especially relative to the league) yet still won 40 games -- and he had to average 40+ ppg/53% FG in the Chicago wins to do it. That team was garbage outside of MJ. They got to the playoffs as the #8 seed and faced the legendary Celtics again and lost 0-3. Expecting the Bulls to win a single game against the 1986/1987 Celtics, one of the greatest teams in NBA history as the 8th seed or to upset the Bucks as the 7th seed his rookie season really shows a lack of understanding.

[LAZERUSS]

Agreed in the sense that they elevated their play in the finals. Real clutch and mental strength and very much contrary to what Wilt Chamberlain was known for when the stakes were high. 18 ppg in NBA finals for a reason, but I digress.

Yep...the Wilt who ELEVATED his rebounding and FG%'s in the Finals. And the Wilt who dominated defensively with 7+ bpg in his Finals. The Chamberlain, who on one leg, hung a 23-24 .625 series, which included a must-win game six of 45-27 (on 20-27 shooting), and game seven of 21-24 10-16. The Chamberlain who put up a 29-28 .517 Finals against Russell. The Wilt, who at age 35, chopped down a peak Kareem in the WCF's, and then DOMINATED the Knicks and their FIVE HOFers in the Finals...en route to a FMVP. The Wilt who slaughtered a peak Thurmond in the '67 Finals (just ask Kareem about Nate,..who dramatically lowered Kareem's post-season numbers), and led his team to yet another title.

Of course, I am sure that you can find many other "GOATs" who had 29-28 .517 and 23-24 .625 Finals, right?



Yep...THAT Chamberlain.

[Nash]

I don't hate Lebron at all.. I hate how he's compared to MJ.

He isn't anywhere close.. People actually think it's close.. I've been trying to explain how it isn't.

Maybe after Lebron has a few more cakewalks to the Finals and ends up 2/11... THEN people will finally start scratching their head... Hmmm... How could this guy be anywhere near MJ?

Lebron's less diverse and less adjustable style prevents his teams from using optimal, cutting edge strategy.. Instead, it's the opposite - Lebron's Finals opponents are the ones employing the superior, cutting-edge strategy (i.e. Spurs, Dallas, Warriors) - they're the teams that are considered the "smart" teams in the league, not Lebron's.

Otoh, MJ's teams were like the Warriors, Dallas, or Spurs - they employed cutting edge strategy and were perceived as one of the league's smart teams.. MJ's GOAT offensive sophistication (http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-02-2015/9VPzJD.gif) provided the necessary adjustability and capacity to be the centerpiece of cutting edge strategy (the triangle).

Unfortunately, Lebron-ball's rigid, straightforward approach means it can never be part of a smart team that uses cutting edge strategy... This precludes him from ever being part of an all-time great team.. All-time great teams are always smart teams that use cutting edge strategy over an extended period of time, which gives the team a sustainable advantage on the rest of the league (i.e. Pistons, Bulls, Celtics, Spurs).
.
first of all, yes you do hate lebron. Let's not kid ourselves here.

Also, if lebron leads his team to 11 finals you seriously think people will start realizing how overrated he is? do you even understand how amazing of an accomplishment making 11 finals is?

[Magic 32]

Why are Lebron stans still fighting this fight? :biggums:

It's OVER

[guy]

http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2015/04/07ca878fba71bdc057e92dfeeeb2a3ce.gif

Imagine a defensive juggernaut, taking away the best teams scorer in each series. ie. Durant drops from 30 ppg to 15. Melo drops his ppg from 25 to 15ppg on worse efficiency etc. Westbrook gets neutralized

This advantage allows the opposing teams offense to be completely neutralized slowing the pace, and not requiring much scoring from the Bulls therefore Pippen scoring only 15 ppg was acceptable


So its Pippins 15ppg average PLUS the 15 ppg he is stopping on the other side of the ball giving a NET impact of +30 ppg for the Bulls in addition to his rebounding and passing.


Taking Pippen away from the Bulls is like subtracting 30 points from the Bulls final score.

Try doing that, subtract the Bulls playoff scores by 30 points from 1991-1998, tell me how many games they would win maybe 1 or 2 at most, forget about winning championships.


And this idea works well, because the Bulls did in fact only win 1 playoff game without Pippen[/I] proving that my argument makes sense


CLIFFS: Adding Pippen to your roster, is like adding an [I] additional 30 points to your final score on top of whatever the Bulls were able to produce.

No it's not. This is complete horseshit :oldlol: you have no idea what you're talking about if you think ANY defender is holding down someone like Durant to those kind of numbers. Neither Pippen or even Jordan were holding worse players then Durant down that much below their averages.

[sdot_thadon]

The real elephant in the room was Rodman's finals mvp worthy impact on that 96 series. That was just as important if not more than what scottie did in 96. So in turn are we also replacing Rodman's fmvp worthy impact on defense and boards for bosh's......um not so impact full finals series?

[sdot_thadon]

I don't hate Lebron at all.. I hate how he's compared to MJ.

He isn't anywhere close.. People actually think it's close.. I've been trying to explain how it isn't.
You've been failing insanely hard at it too, simply because you constantly come up with biased, disingenuous points that discredit your mental capacity more than any favor it does to Mj.

And dude just give it up, he's much closer than you'll ever be willing or mentally able to admit. Accolades wise he has work to do. Longevity wise he's right there. Skill wise he's behind but not far off , with different skills. Peak and overall impact he's as close as it can get, albeit from a different angle. The argument isn't going anywhere anytime soon. By constantly dragging it along you validate it more than prove it's not worth debate.

[Rocketswin2013]

Why are Lebron stans still fighting this fight? :biggums:

It's OVER
I don't think people shit on 3ball's arguments because they think LeBron is better. People are just tired of his spamming and shitposts. Hell, he's the one that keeps starting the comparison.

[iamgine]

I don't hate Lebron at all.. I hate how he's compared to MJ.

He isn't anywhere close.. People actually think it's close.. I've been trying to explain how it isn't.
Translation: In my opinion he isn't anywhere close. Other people have different opinion. So I pass off my opinion as if it was fact. That oughta teach em a lesson.

[3ball]

Peak and overall impact he's as close as it can get


What a joke - here are their peak stats - 1989-1993 vs. 2009-2014:


Regular Season:

Jordan: 32.0 PPG, 6.8 RPG, 6.3 APG, 2.8 TO, 2.7 STL, 0.8 BLK, 23.4 FGA, 52.3 FG%
Lebron: 27.7 PPG, 7.5 RPG, 7.1 APG, 3.3 TO, 1.7 STL, 0.8 BLK, 18.9 FGA, 52.6 FG%


Playoffs:

Jordan: 34.4 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 6.8 APG, 3.2 TO, 2.3 STL, 0.9 BLK, 25.3 FGA, 50.2% FG
Lebron: 28.1 PPG, 8.6 RPG, 6.1 APG, 3.2 TO, 1.8 STL, 0.9 BLK, 19.4 FGA, 50.4% FG


Finals:

Jordan: 36.3 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 7.9 APG, 2.0 SPG, 0.76 BPG, 52.6% FG
Lebron: 26.4 PPG, 9.6 RPG, 6.9 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.54 BPG, 44.6 FG%





you constantly come up with biased, disingenuous points that discredit your mental capacity more than any favor it does to Mj


It's not biased that MJ faced more defenders on the strongside... This is a fact.

It's not biased that MJ had higher PER and win shares, along with superior playoff and Finals stats.. This is a fact.

It's not biased that Lebron played with a 10-time all-star as his 3rd option (19/9 career avg), while MJ's 3rd option was a 1-time all-star (11/8 career avg).. This is a fact.

It's not biased that Pippen averaged 15 PPG on 34% in the 1996 Finals, which is worse than Wade ever played in ANY playoffs series, let alone the Finals.. This is a fact.

It's not biased that MJ dealt with more physical defense and legal paint-camping, while Lebron only faces zones OUTSIDE the paint (zones are banned inside the paint, along with paint-camping)... This is a fact.

And on, and on, and on... All my posts are based in fact... That's a fact.
.

[3ball]

Pippen did well leading the Bulls in 1994


MJ put Pippen in that position.. How good would the Bulls have been in 1994, if MJ had retired in 1989 instead, and the Bulls were MJ-less that entire time from 1989-1994?.. Let's see.

Without MJ in 1989, the 47-win Bulls would never have beaten Cleveland with "the shot" or faced Detroit in ECF.. Going into the 1990 season, they would've been a lottery team, compared to ECF and just 1 year away from the start of their first 3-peat.. Think about that scenario going into the 1990 season: without MJ, the Bulls are in lottery... With MJ, the Bulls are ECF and just 1 year away from the start of their 1st three-peat.. That's some Matrix blue-red pill shit.

So you can't give Pippen credit for an accomplished team, when MJ deserves the lionshare of the credit for building that team.

Keep in mind that every Bulls championship team required MJ to lead the league in scoring and be the greatest scorer of all time (career leader in PPG for RS, PO and Finals).. Therefore, it's a mathematical fact that MJ had the least scoring help of all time..

So when the Bulls won 55 games in 1994, it wasn't because they had talented scorers that could score a lot of points, it was because of the superior strategy, execution, teamwork and mental ability accumulated from going through wars for rings alongside MJ.
.

[LAZERUSS]

MJ put Pippen in that position.. How good would the Bulls have been in 1994, if MJ had retired in 1989 instead, and the Bulls were MJ-less that entire time from 1989-1994?.. Let's see.

Without MJ in 1989, the 47-win Bulls would never have beaten Cleveland with "the shot" or faced Detroit in ECF.. Going into the 1990 season, they would've been a lottery team instead of ECF and just 1 year away from the start of their first 3-peat.. Think about that scenario going into the 1990 season: without MJ, the Bulls are in lottery... With MJ, the Bulls are ECF and just 1 year away from the start of their 1st three-peat.. That's some Matrix blue-red pill shit.

So you can't give Pippen credit for an accomplished team, when MJ deserves the lionshare of the credit for building that team.

Keep in mind that every Bulls championship team required MJ to lead the league in scoring and be the greatest scorer of all time (career leader in PPG for RS, PO and Finals).. Therefore, it's a mathematical fact that MJ had the least scoring help of all time..

So when the Bulls won 55 games in 1994, it wasn't because they had talented scorers that could score a lot of points, it was because of the superior strategy, execution, teamwork and mental ability accumulated from going through wars for rings alongside MJ.

I don't care how you want to spin it...MJ was playing with the best supporting casts in the league from '91 thru '93, and then again from '96 thru '98. No other team was remotely close to the talent that MJ had. Rosters that were capable of winning 55 games (and healthy, it surely would have been 60), and challenging for the title..,withOUT him.

Plain-and-simple.

MJ needed stacked rosters to win. Nothing wrong with that. Russell and Kareem were in the same boat.

[Young X]

MJ needed stacked rosters to win. Nothing wrong with that. Russell and Kareem were in the same boat.He needed good rosters to win. His teams in the 80's were trash. Once he had a good enough team to win he never lost.

[LAZERUSS]

He needed good rosters to win. His teams in the 80's were trash. Once he had a good enough team that could win 55 games without him, he never lost.

Fixed.

BTW, he did LOSE in '95.

How come? I guess he couldn't win without a great PF.

[SouBeachTalents]

What a joke - here are their peak stats - 1989-1993 vs. 2009-2014:


Regular Season:

Jordan: 32.0 PPG, 6.8 RPG, 6.3 APG, 2.8 TO, 2.7 STL, 0.8 BLK, 23.4 FGA, 52.3 FG%
Lebron: 27.7 PPG, 7.5 RPG, 7.1 APG, 3.3 TO, 1.7 STL, 0.8 BLK, 18.9 FGA, 52.6 FG%


Playoffs:

Jordan: 34.4 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 6.8 APG, 3.2 TO, 2.3 STL, 0.9 BLK, 25.3 FGA, 50.2% FG
Lebron: 28.1 PPG, 8.6 RPG, 6.1 APG, 3.2 TO, 1.8 STL, 0.9 BLK, 19.4 FGA, 50.4% FG


Finals:

Jordan: 36.3 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 7.9 APG, 2.0 SPG, 0.76 BPG, 52.6% FG
Lebron: 26.4 PPG, 9.6 RPG, 6.9 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.54 BPG, 44.6 FG%



It's not biased that MJ faced more defenders on the strongside... This is a fact.

It's not biased that MJ had higher PER and win shares, along with superior playoff and Finals stats.. This is a fact.

It's not biased that Lebron played with a 10-time all-star as his 3rd option (19/9 career avg), while MJ's 3rd option was a 1-time all-star (11/8 career avg).. This is a fact.

It's not biased that Pippen averaged 15 PPG on 34% in the 1996 Finals, which is worse than Wade ever played in ANY playoffs series, let alone the Finals.. This is a fact.

It's not biased that MJ dealt with more physical defense and legal paint-camping, while Lebron only faces zones OUTSIDE the paint (zones are banned inside the paint, along with paint-camping)... This is a fact.

And on, and on, and on... All my posts are based in fact... That's a fact.
.

There's no way anyone who actually watched the 2014 Finals doesn't think Wade was horrendous. You can prop up his laughable 15 ppg on 44% and make it seem like that alone is the reason why his series was better, but Pippen had a far more positive impact on the game. He contributed 8 boards and 5 assists a game with minimal turnovers, while of course providing phenomenal defense. Meanwhile Wade averaged half as many rebounds, had more turnovers than assists and was absolutely abysmal on defense. Pippen's '96 Finals >>> Wades '14 Finals

[LAZERUSS]

There's no way anyone who actually watched the 2014 Finals doesn't think Wade was horrendous. You can prop up his laughable 15 ppg on 44% and make it seem like that alone is the reason why his series was better, but Pippen had a far more positive impact on the game. He contributed 8 boards and 5 assists a game with minimal turnovers, while of course providing phenomenal defense. Meanwhile Wade averaged half as many rebounds, had more turnovers than assists and was absolutely abysmal on defense. Pippen's '96 Finals >>> Wades '14 Finals

Pippen was better than any Wade that Lebron played with. And the reality was, Wade was only good for ONE season with Lebron.

We saw just how good Wade and Bosh were withOUT Lebron. A below .500 team.

[3ball]

No other team was remotely close to the talent that MJ had.


What a joke - pure bullshit, poppycock.. The Bulls only had 1 all-star when they won the ring in 1991 (MJ) - that alone proves you are either lying or dumb.

I'm going to assume it's the latter and explain it for you.. The stats prove MJ had the least help - the Bulls need MJ to lead the league in scoring ever year and be the greatest scorer the game's ever seen (career PPG leader in RS, PO and Finals).. That proves MJ had the least help of all time and carried the biggest burden of all time.. 2+2=4

In b4 your standard argument: "I don't care about the facts.. MJ had the best supporting talent ever because I said so and want to believe it".. You're a child.

Greats like Magic and Bird needed multiple all-stars to win a championship, as did lesser players like Lebron... But MJ only needed 1 all-star to go 6/6... He simply did the most, with the least.. Those are the facts.

[SouBeachTalents]

Pippen was better than any Wade that Lebron played with. And the reality was, Wade was only good for ONE season with Lebron.

We saw just how good Wade and Bosh were withOUT Lebron. A below .500 team.

I'd have to disagree with you there. 2011 Wade was better than any version of Pippen Jordan played with, and Wade was definitely still good in 2012 and the 2013 regular season. After that 27 game win streak though, his play ranged from decent to terrible

[3ball]

Pippen was better than any Wade that Lebron played with.


Another lie.

Pippen averaged 15 PPG on 34% FG in 1996 Finals.

That's worse than Wade has ever played in his entire career and the worst ANY 2nd option was ever done in the Finals.

Pippen also averaged 15 PPG on 41% in the 1998 Finals, which is equivalent to Wade's worst (2014 Finals).
.

[LAZERUSS]

What a joke - pure bullshit, poppycock.. The Bulls only had 1 all-star when they won the ring in 1991 (MJ) - that alone proves you are either lying or dumb.

I'm going to assume it's the latter and explain it for you.. The stats prove MJ had the least help - the Bulls need MJ to lead the league in scoring ever year and be the greatest scorer the game's ever seen (career PPG leader in RS, PO and Finals).. That proves MJ had the least help of all time and carried the biggest burden of all time.. 2+2=4

In b4 your standard argument: "I don't care about the facts.. MJ had the best supporting talent ever because I said so and want to believe it".. You're a child.

Greats like Magic and Bird needed multiple all-stars to win a championship, as did lesser players like Lebron... But MJ only needed 1 all-star to go 6/6... He simply did the most, with the least.. Those are the facts.

The FACTS were...the Bulls were better team in '94 withOUT MJ, than they were in '95 WITH MJ.

The reality was, MJ was playing with STACKED rosters that were capable of winning 55 games (actually 60) withOUT him.

And his second supporting cast, from '96 thru '98 was even more loaded.

[3ball]

Rosters that were capable of winning 55 games (and healthy, it surely would have been 60), and challenging for the title..,withOUT him.


Question: How good would the Bulls be in 1994, if MJ retired in 1989 instead of 1994 and the Bulls were MJ-less the entire time from 1989 to 1994?

Btw, Lebron had a 10-time all-star as his 3rd option (a 19/9 player).. MJ had a 1-time all-star as this 3rd option (11/8) player..

^^^^^ You will never be able to get past this fact... This alone proves how far superior Lebron's supporting casts were.

[dubeta]

Thread Cliffs: 1-9

[And1AllDay]

Pippen's Playoff Averages:

1996: 16.9 PPG on 39.0%
1997: 19.2 PPG on 41.7%
1998: 16.8 PPG on 41.5%


Lebron has never won a ring with his 2nd option shooting less than 40% for the entire playoff run.

Otoh, as the stats show, MJ 3-peated with a 17 PPG and 40% shooting 2nd option.. :bowdown:

And was this an all-star game (where no one cares about passing, defense, etc.) or was this the playoffs where those categories become even more important?

We get that Pippen < Wade offense
But what about that other thing that starts with a D? Defense?
Pippen > Wade defense

So, let's break it down simply:

Offense
Wade > Pippen

Defense
Pippen > Wade

So what point were you trying to make? :lol

[LAZERUSS]

Question: How good would the Bulls be in 1994, if MJ retired in 1989 instead of 1994 and the Bulls were MJ-less the entire time from 1989 to 1994?

Btw, Lebron had a 10-time all-star as his 3rd option (a 19/9 player).. MJ had a 1-time all-star as this 3rd option (11/8) player..

^^^^^ You will never be able to get past this fact... This alone proves how far superior Lebron's supporting casts were.

Lebron had a "third-wheel" that was worthless in his biggest games, and when he and Wade lost him...a non-playoff team that couldn't even go .500.

Manwhile, MJ's "third wheel" was an offensive force (just look at his staggering Otrg's WITH and WITHOUT MJ), who could take an MJ-less team to 55 wins, and nearly a title. And when they lost Grant, MJ couldn't win shit...and needed ANOTHER HOFer, in Rodman to again win titles.

Lebron had considerably less talent around him than MJ did. And please, don't give me an injured washed up Wade as some kind of example.

[3ball]

I can't truthfully answer the question of how good the Bulls would be in 1994 if MJ had retired in 1989, because the truth will hurt.


Fine.. I'll answer the question then..

Without MJ in 1989, the 47-win Bulls would never have beaten Cleveland with "the shot" or faced Detroit in ECF..

Think about that scenario going into the 1990 season: without MJ, the Bulls are in lottery... With MJ, the Bulls are ECF and just 1 year away from the start of their 1st three-peat.. That's some Matrix blue-red pill shit.





Manwhile, MJ's "third wheel" was an offensive force (just look at his staggering Otrg's WITH and WITHOUT MJ),


:yaohappy:

Poor job, poor effort.

Manwhile, I'm going to have to let you go, sir.

[livinglegend]

Thread Cliffs: 1-9

I got lost in this thread.
Thanks for summarizing it.

[LAZERUSS]

Fine.. I'll answer the question then..

Without MJ in 1989, the 47-win Bulls would never have beaten Cleveland with "the shot" or faced Detroit in ECF..

Think about that scenario going into the 1990 season: without MJ, the Bulls are in lottery... With MJ, the Bulls are ECF and just 1 year away from the start of their 1st three-peat.. That's some Matrix blue-red pill shit.



:yaohappy:

Poor job, poor effort.

Manwhile, I'm going to have to let you go, sir.

Grant made his teams better wherever he went. Bosh was a shot-jacking loser that was a miserable third-wheel with Lebron, and then a lowly loser again without him. Hell, he went 55-27 withOUT MJ in '94, and then the Bulls fell to 47-35 the next year without him. Oh, and then took a 50-32 Magic team to a 60-22 record that same season that MJ was losing to his Magic team in the '95 playoffs.

Grant >>> Bosh. Not even close my friend.

[TheMan]

Grant made his teams better wherever he went. Bosh was a shot-jacking loser that was a miserable third-wheel with Lebron, and then a lowly loser again without him. Hell, he went 55-27 withOUT MJ in '94, and then the Bulls fell to 47-35 the next year without him. Oh, and then took a 50-32 Magic team to a 60-22 record that same season that MJ was losing to his Magic team in the '95 playoffs.

Grant >>> Bosh. Not even close my friend.
LAZ, you have gone full retard, lol. Are you really trying to tell us the Bulls main reason they won the first threepeat was because of...Horace Grant? :lol And on top of that, he was the biggest reason the Magic won 60 games, more important than Shaq and Penny, oh no those guys were replaceable as long as they had GOAT PF HoGrant. :oldlol:

The **** outta here you senile old man, I remember the criticism he faced when he was being taken by Charles Barkley in 93 and Oakley in some of the NY series. Stop trying to paint him as if he ever was considered an elite PF :facepalm He was never considered a top 5 PF, hell, Charles Oakley could've easily filled Grant's role with the Bulls.

Go join the LeBron family, you're certainly stupid enough, I used to think you were a good poster but obviously I was wrong.

Grant was a very good ROLE player, to try to paint him as a franchise type player is pure lunacy...BTW, where do you rank him all time? I have never seen him in a top 100 NBA players in history. Do you think he was better than Karl Malone? Dis gon' be gud.

[funnystuff]

hoes getting 3balled on in this thread

Iguodala was probably the worst or 2nd worst second option of all time. He only averaged 16 ppg on wide open looks the entire time.
:facepalm
Iggy was the 2nd best player in that series, 1st best on his team.

[TheMan]

:facepalm
Iggy was the 2nd best player in that series, 1st best on his team.
You don't understand basketball if you really believe this. Curry, with the trapping defense he faced and the way he moved the ball to set up easy shots (including Iggy) was way more impactful. :rolleyes:

[LAZERUSS]

LAZ, you have gone full retard, lol. Are you really trying to tell us the Bulls main reason they won the first threepeat was because of...Horace Grant? :lol And on top of that, he was the biggest reason the Magic won 60 games, more important than Shaq and Penny, oh no those guys were replaceable as long as they had GOAT PF HoGrant. :oldlol:

The **** outta here you senile old man, I remember the criticism he faced when he was being taken by Charles Barkley in 93 and Oakley in some of the NY series. Stop trying to paint him as if he ever was considered an elite PF :facepalm He was never considered a top 5 PF, hell, Charles Oakley could've easily filled Grant's role with the Bulls.

Go join the LeBron family, you're certainly stupid enough, I used to think you were a good poster but obviously I was wrong.

Grant was a very good ROLE player, to try to paint him as a franchise type player is pure lunacy...BTW, where do you rank him all time? I have never seen him in a top 100 NBA players in history. Do you think he was better than Karl Malone? Dis gon' be gud.

I merely pointed out Grant's immediate IMPACT on his teams.

As for Oakley...he did fill Grant's role...to the tune of 30-52 records and getting swept in the playoffs.

Next...

[nzahir]

Summary of this thread:
3Ball denies the fact that jordan was 1-9 without pippen and he tries to cover up that pippen was a very elite defender.

So as usual, 3ball takes the L

[TheMan]

I merely pointed out Grant's immediate IMPACT on his teams.

As for Oakley...he did fill Grant's role...to the tune of 30-52 records and getting swept in the playoffs.

Next...
Wow dude, you're a garbage poster, the fvck happened to you? :(

[LAZERUSS]

Wow dude, you're a garbage poster, the fvck happened to you? :(

Obviously you can't handle the truth.

Grant was a KEY member of the Bulls runs from '91 thru '94 (and had FAR more impact than Bosh did with the Lebron-led Heat), and was a FORCE in defeating an MJ-led club just the year after he left the Bulls.

And you simply can't ignore REALITY...Grant was KEY member of a Bulls team that went 55-27 withOUT MJ. And, he was KEY member of the 60 win Magic the year after he bolted from Chicago.

Anyone that somehow believes that MJ was single-handedly carrying those title teams is being purely idiotic.

We saw how much winning MJ did before Pippen and Grant, ...and we saw much winning those two did withOUT MJ.

[hitmanyr2k]

Another lie.

Pippen averaged 15 PPG on 34% FG in 1996 Finals.

That's worse than Wade has ever played in his entire career and the worst ANY 2nd option was ever done in the Finals.

Pippen also averaged 15 PPG on 41% in the 1998 Finals, which is equivalent to Wade's worst (2014 Finals).
.

You've said this time and time again and this where your dumbass stats never tell the whole story. Eat this shit sandwich once again and shut the **** up....

Pippen only scores 10 points in Game 3 but it doesn't matter because he gets his props anyway for his defense setting the tone.

Pippen Earning Master's Degree In Defense (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-06-08/sports/9806080106_1_scottie-pippen-bulls-john-stockton)

At Every Turn, Jazz Finds Pippen; The Bulls' Consummate Defender Picks Apart the Pick-and-Roll (http://www.nytimes.com/1998/06/09/sports/nba-finals-every-turn-jazz-finds-pippen-bulls-consummate-defender-picks-apart.html?src=pm)

Pippen Stands In Utah's Way (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-06-08/sports/9806080102_1_scottie-pippen-karl-malone-bulls)

Pippen Taking Charge (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1998-06-09/sports/9806090328_1_scottie-pippen-bulls-nba)

And after Game 3 of taking charges Pippen messed up his back which resulted in this.

Bad Back Fails To Stop Pippen (http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1998-06-15/sports/9806150011_1_scottie-pippen-nba-finals-usa-basketball)

But even after screwing his back in Game 3 he played great in Game 4 and had Finals MVP consideration anyway.

What about Pippen for Finals MVP? (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/635114/What-about-Pippen-for-NBA-Finals-MVP.html?pg=all)

Finals Mvp? This Time, Pippen Deserves It (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-06-11/sports/9806110398_1_scottie-pippen-bulls-karl-malone)

NBA Finals MVP Not an Easy Choice (http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1998/NBA-Finals-MVP-Not-an-Easy-Choice/id-778ed9711147fd5917209bbf1c8c2091)

[3ball]

There were a half-dozen polite articles that praised Pippen for his performance in the first few games of the 1998 Finals


Politeness.. That's all those articles are.. They can't write about MJ's goatness EVERY article.. Gotta mix it up.. So they throw Scottie a bone before he chokes the final 2 games of the series with 6 and 8 points.. You only posted a few articles out of thousands written about that series - the rest of them were about MJ.

And you're the kind of casual fan that those articles are geared towards, so you don't get bored and tune out over MJ-fatigue..

But in reality, EVERY championship has defensive specialists - Lebron had Battier.. Duncan had Kawhi.. Magic had Michael Cooper... And the Bulls had Michael Jordan - MJ was ALSO a defensive specialist and one of the greatest defenders of all time.
.

[3ball]

jordan was 1-9 without pippen


Against ESPN-verified FAR better competition: http://i.imgur.com/CIu6gDI.jpg





jordan was 1-9 without pippen


Not only did MJ play better competition, but he was 1-9 with no all-stars.

Otoh, Zydrunas Illgauskas was named an all-star in 2003 and 2005.. So Lebron missed the playoffs in 2005 despite having an All-Star on his team.. And when he won his first playoff game in 2006, he did so with the help of a 2-time All-Star.

Otoh, MJ never played with an all-star, or anything NEAR that during his early playoff career... But once he got just 1 all-star, he went 6/6.. Whereas, Lebron missed the playoffs despite having an all-star, and only went 2/4 with two all-stars in Miami.

[hitmanyr2k]

Politeness.. That's all those articles are.. They can't write about MJ's goatness EVERY article.. Gotta mix it up.. So they throw Scottie a bone before he chokes the final 2 games of the series with 6 and 8 points.. You only posted a few articles out of thousands written about that series - the rest of them were about MJ.

And you're the kind of casual fan that those articles are geared towards, so you don't get bored and tune out over MJ-fatigue..

But in reality, EVERY championship has defensive specialists - Lebron had Battier.. Duncan had Kawhi.. Magic had Michael Cooper... And the Bulls had Michael Jordan - MJ was ALSO a defensive specialist and one of the greatest defenders of all time.
.

Nah, they were saying that because Pippen was killing it and making a major impact on both ends. Someone who knows hoops would understand unlike mental midgets like yourself that posts nothing but points while ignoring every other aspect of basketball.

https://youtu.be/_ZdFwywggR0?t=3m23s

[triangleoffense]

the troll thread is real