Lebron Ball effect on Chris Bosh

[JohnMax]

Do you notice Chris Bosh (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html) decline in scoring, rebounding, freethrow attempts and assists when playing with Lebron?

Regular Season

2003-04 45.9 fg% 3.8 fta http://i.imgur.com/KDiXdjE.png 7.4 rpg 1.0 apg 11.5 ppg
2004-05 47.1 fg% 6.7 fta http://i.imgur.com/KDiXdjE.png 8.9 rpg 1.9 apg 16.8 ppg
2005-06 50.5 fg% 8.3 fta http://i.imgur.com/KDiXdjE.png 9.2 rpg 2.6 apg 22.5 ppg
2006-07 49.6 fg% 8.6 fta 10.7 rpg 2.5 apg 22.6 ppg
2007-08 49.4 fg% 8.3 fta http://i.imgur.com/KDiXdjE.png 8.7 rpg 2.6 apg 22.3 ppg
2008-09 48.7 fg% 8.0 fta 10.0 rpg 2.5 apg 22.7 ppg
2009-10 51.8 fg% 8.4 fta 10.8 rpg 2.4 apg 24.0 ppg
2010-11 49.6 fg% 6.1 fta http://i.imgur.com/KDiXdjE.png 8.3 rpg 1.9 apg 18.7 ppg
2011-12 48.7 fg% 4.9 fta http://i.imgur.com/KDiXdjE.png 7.9 rpg 1.8 apg 18.0 ppg
2012-13 53.5 fg% 4.1 fta http://i.imgur.com/KDiXdjE.png 6.8 rpg 1.7 apg 16.6 ppg
2013-14 51.6 fg% 3.4 fta http://i.imgur.com/KDiXdjE.png 6.6 rpg 1.1 apg 16.2 ppg
2014-15 46.0 fg% 5.3 fta http://i.imgur.com/KDiXdjE.png 7.0 rpg 2.2 apg 21.1 ppg

Playoffs

2006-07 39.6 fg% 6.3 fta 9.0 rpg 2.5 apg 17.5 ppg
2007-08 47.2 fg% 8.4 fta 9.0 rpg 3.6 apg 24.0 ppg
2010-11 47.4 fg% 6.7 fta 8.5 rpg 1.1 apg 18.6 ppg
2011-12 49.3 fg% 3.7 fta 7.8 rpg 0.6 apg 14.0 ppg
2012-13 45.8 fg% 2.6 fta 7.3 rpg 1.5 apg 12.1 ppg
2013-14 50.7 fg% 2.4 fta 5.6 rpg 1.1 apg 14.9 ppg

http://i.imgur.com/KDiXdjE.png

[Quickening]

Do you actually spend your free time thinking this through? You must be intersting at parties

[KyrieTheFuture]

This was probably fun to type out

[Rocketswin2013]

why leave 2015 out

[24-Inch_Chrome]

So you're saying that because he's not a first option with LeBron, his numbers drop? Interesting.

[sd3035]

Do you actually spend your free time thinking this through? You must be intersting at parties

translation:

http://www.pitterpatter.com.my/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/crying-baby-1.jpg

[JohnMax]

If you check Kevin Love (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html)'s stats, you'll notice the same thing.

[ArbitraryWater]

If you check Kevin Love (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html)'s stats, you'll notice the same thing.

that is amazing research :applause:

[Nikola_]

Lebon to Bosh: Dont just do something, stand there!

[Legends66NBA7]

I'll give this a pass for laziness since it's an early morning Saturday.

[JZ600]

Great read, did not know this

Kill yourself op

[Megabox!]

I'm sure Bosh would rather have better stats than those 2 beautiful, shiny championship rings on his fingers

[DMAVS41]

Do you notice Chris Bosh (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html) decline in scoring, rebounding, freethrow attempts and assists when playing with Lebron?

Regular Season

2003-04 45.9 fg% 3.8 fta http://i.imgur.com/KDiXdjE.png 7.4 rpg 1.0 apg 11.5 ppg
2004-05 47.1 fg% 6.7 fta http://i.imgur.com/KDiXdjE.png 8.9 rpg 1.9 apg 16.8 ppg
2005-06 50.5 fg% 8.3 fta http://i.imgur.com/KDiXdjE.png 9.2 rpg 2.6 apg 22.5 ppg
2006-07 49.6 fg% 8.6 fta 10.7 rpg 2.5 apg 22.6 ppg
2007-08 49.4 fg% 8.3 fta http://i.imgur.com/KDiXdjE.png 8.7 rpg 2.6 apg 22.3 ppg
2008-09 48.7 fg% 8.0 fta 10.0 rpg 2.5 apg 22.7 ppg
2009-10 51.8 fg% 8.4 fta 10.8 rpg 2.4 apg 24.0 ppg
2010-11 49.6 fg% 6.1 fta http://i.imgur.com/KDiXdjE.png 8.3 rpg 1.9 apg 18.7 ppg
2011-12 48.7 fg% 4.9 fta http://i.imgur.com/KDiXdjE.png 7.9 rpg 1.8 apg 18.0 ppg
2012-13 53.5 fg% 4.1 fta http://i.imgur.com/KDiXdjE.png 6.8 rpg 1.7 apg 16.6 ppg
2013-14 51.6 fg% 3.4 fta http://i.imgur.com/KDiXdjE.png 6.6 rpg 1.1 apg 16.2 ppg
2014-15 46.0 fg% 5.3 fta http://i.imgur.com/KDiXdjE.png 7.0 rpg 2.2 apg 21.1 ppg

Playoffs

2006-07 39.6 fg% 6.3 fta 9.0 rpg 2.5 apg 17.5 ppg
2007-08 47.2 fg% 8.4 fta 9.0 rpg 3.6 apg 24.0 ppg
2010-11 47.4 fg% 6.7 fta 8.5 rpg 1.1 apg 18.6 ppg
2011-12 49.3 fg% 3.7 fta 7.8 rpg 0.6 apg 14.0 ppg
2012-13 45.8 fg% 2.6 fta 7.3 rpg 1.5 apg 12.1 ppg
2013-14 50.7 fg% 2.4 fta 5.6 rpg 1.1 apg 14.9 ppg

http://i.imgur.com/KDiXdjE.png


You know what you could also do?

You could also think logically about a guy going from first option on an average team to 3rd option on a great team.

And you could factor that in and come up with what you think a realistic dip in production would like for a 1st option going to 3rd option playing with any player other than Lebron....then you could compare and see what the Lebron affect really was.

Another thing you could look at would be minutes played...I believe Bosh's minutes dipped like 2 to 3 minutes per game in 13 and 14.

And in the playoffs...his minutes dipped hugely. Maybe you blame Lebron for that....or maybe not.

Point is....there are a lot of factors to look at here if you are trying to quantify the Lebron affect.

I'd bet that impact was much lower than you actually think in terms of production for Bosh.

[Charlie Sheen]

Good post OP. You've pointed out Toronto's failures in building a proper team around a premium talent like Bosh.

[lilteapot]

Congrats OP you understand the concept of "1st option superstar will produce more than when he's a 3rd option"

[NumberSix]

Chris Sposh

[Nash]

lebron's fault that bosh wasn't 1st option.

[Spaulding]

OP fail.

[HighFlyer23]

This forum is a hub for the stupid mofos on the internet

[Orlando Magic]

This forum is a hub for the stupid mofos on the internet

Yep.

The truly sad part is that while some are trolling for a reaction, most of the time they are not... and they actually are that stupid.

[sdot_thadon]

Lebron Ball effect on Chris Bosh:
2 rings, 4 finals appearances.
/thread

[Uncle Drew]

Who knew, a player getting less touches per game has a drop in his averages. :eek:

[Bankaii]

Bosh is a beast without Lebron dragging him down. Superstar status even.
So where are his stats from the 2009 & 2010 playoffs?
Oh wait...:roll:

[dubeta]

Cool, didn't know bosh was supposed to still average 20/10 as a 3rd option

[LAZERUSS]

Put Bosh on a team with a shot-jacking MJ, and a 20 ppg scorer in Pippen, and he would be lucky to put up a 10 ppg.

[branslowski]

Yawl can give the obvious excuse of 1st option going to 3rd option all you want, I mean under different circumstances this may be true, but when you WATCH how LeBron ball is played you notice how much it changed up Bosh's game....

It's like Yeah I can go from avg 23fga down to 13fga if I'm a 3rd option but, My game still would be my game, I'm just not getting the shots...BUT WITH LEBRON BALL Bosh goes from being a skilled post player (Which is his GAME) to being a spot up 3pt shooter:biggums:

Having to change your whole game to fit another players offensive shortcoming has to be mentally draining, thus Bosh not giving 100% effort on defense. He tried with the rebounds but LeBron loves taking his teamates rebounds away for stat pad purposes. All in all, Bron ball took away Bosh's offensive skillset...Now he has to just stand at the 3 or long 2 just to spread the floor for LeBron cause LeBron can't have the paint packed cause he cant shoot a jumper...Yet in still when Bosh gets the ball when the shotclock is low, you morons expect him to just get hot when his fg attempts come few and far between with a new game thats not his game.

[SouBeachTalents]

Thanks LeTMZ. Next show us the effect LeBron ball had on Bosh's postseason success

[DMAVS41]

Yawl can give the obvious excuse of 1st option going to 3rd option all you want, I mean under different circumstances this may be true, but when you WATCH how LeBron ball is played you notice how much it changed up Bosh's game....

It's like Yeah I can go from avg 23fga down to 13fga if I'm a 3rd option but, My game still would be my game, I'm just not getting the shots...BUT WITH LEBRON BALL Bosh goes from being a skilled post player (Which is his GAME) to being a spot up 3pt shooter:biggums:

Having to change your whole game to fit another players offensive shortcoming has to be mentally draining, thus Bosh not giving 100% effort on defense. He tried with the rebounds but LeBron loves taking his teamates rebounds away for stat pad purposes. All in all, Bron ball took away Bosh's offensive skillset...Now he has to just stand at the 3 or long 2 just to spread the floor for LeBron cause LeBron can't have the paint packed cause he cant shoot a jumper...Yet in still when Bosh gets the ball when the shotclock is low, you morons expect him to just get hot when his fg attempts come few and far between with a new game thats not his game.

You always fail to include Wade in these discussions. You do realize that Wade played a large role in what you are talking about as well..right?

Bosh couldn't play his "normal" game because it would have been impossible to do given Wade and Lebron...

I don't think anyone with a brain is gonna sit here and say Lebron ball isn't a real thing. It is. He can only play on the ball offensively, but that doesn't mean much here as it was the combination of Wade and Lebron that caused 99% of what you are talking about.

If it was Lebron, Bosh, and prime Ray Allen? The team would have looked much different and Bosh would have gotten more touches in his "normal" way...

[FLDFSU]

This forum is a hub for the stupid mofos on the internet

:applause:

[Dragonyeuw]

This just in: first option on mediocre team becomes third option on contender, stats drop as a result

https://theinfiniteabysses.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/stevemartin.gif

[branslowski]

You always fail to include Wade in these discussions. You do realize that Wade played a large role in what you are talking about as well..right?

Bosh couldn't play his "normal" game because it would have been impossible to do given Wade and Lebron...

I don't think anyone with a brain is gonna sit here and say Lebron ball isn't a real thing. It is. He can only play on the ball offensively, but that doesn't mean much here as it was the combination of Wade and Lebron that caused 99% of what you are talking about.

If it was Lebron, Bosh, and prime Ray Allen? The team would have looked much different and Bosh would have gotten more touches in his "normal" way...

Nope, Bosh's game would still be changed because he's a PF, which leaves him close to the basket, something you can't be playing LeBron ball cause Bron cant shoot. So Bosh and Ray Allen would both be shooting 3's with LeBron ball...Now if Bosh played with a Kobe? He'd get to stay in the paint because it doesn't matter if the lane was packed or not with the ball in Kobe's hand, because he can just shoot jumpers, thus Kobe getting the ball to Bosh for Bosh to create his OWN moves rather then just getting the ball to shoot and give LeBron a assist...Bosh with Kobe, 19ppg 10reb 57%fg and whole forum would love Bosh.

[DMAVS41]

Nope, Bosh's game would still be changed because he's a PF, which leaves him close to the basket, something you can't be playing LeBron ball cause Bron cant shoot. So Bosh and Ray Allen would both be shooting 3's with LeBron ball...Now if Bosh played with a Kobe? He'd get to stay in the paint because it doesn't matter if the lane was packed or not with the ball in Kobe's hand, because he can just shoot jumpers, thus Kobe getting the ball to Bosh for Bosh to create his OWN moves rather then just getting the ball to shoot and give LeBron a assist...Bosh with Kobe, 19ppg 10reb 57%fg and whole forum would love Bosh.

nah...he'd get more touches in the post. he'd get less than he would playing with a different type of player other than LEbron, but replacing Wade with Ray Allen...the spacing changes so much.

If you can't see the difference....you are just too blind.

And yes...Kobe would allow Bosh to play more of his normal game....but that doesn't mean Lebron/Bosh is worse than Kobe/Bosh...there are many other aspects to that discussion.

[JohnMax]

Lebron Ball has the same effect on Kevin Love (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html). That eliminates the Wade argument.

[LAZERUSS]

Lebron Ball has the same effect on Kevin Love (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html). That eliminates the Wade argument.

I don't see your point. If you take a player who was the #1 option on his former team, and make him a #3 option, do you still somehow believe that his numbers won't suffer.

I have news for you, my friend, you put either Bosh, or Love, on MJ's Bulls, and third options behind Pippen...and their numbers would take a DRAMATIC tumble. I doubt that either would score 10 ppg.

[branslowski]

Yawl just don't get it...1st or 3rd option LeBron ball changes your game...Bosh went from post player with skills to a spot up 3pt shooter...Being 3rd option just means your fga's go from 23fga to 13fga, and still a player would play HIS GAME just with less shots, but LeBron ball changes Chrish Bosh's whole game.

Kevin Love will also not be in the post anymore, his whole game will be spot up 3's and hopefully offensive putbacks, his rebounding will also drop due to LeBron taking his teammates rebounds away for stat purposes...

[TheMarkMadsen]

how many players are lucky enough to get another teams franchise player 1st option to be your 3rd option not once.. but twice :eek: :eek:

[SouBeachTalents]

how many players are lucky enough to get another teams franchise player 1st option to be your 3rd option not once.. but twice :eek: :eek:

Kobe in '04 & '13?

[DMAVS41]

Yawl just don't get it...1st or 3rd option LeBron ball changes your game...Bosh went from post player with skills to a spot up 3pt shooter...Being 3rd option just means your fga's go from 23fga to 13fga, and still a player would play HIS GAME just with less shots, but LeBron ball changes Chrish Bosh's whole game.

Kevin Love will also not be in the post anymore, his whole game will be spot up 3's and hopefully offensive putbacks, his rebounding will also drop due to LeBron taking his teammates rebounds away for stat purposes...

I agree that it changes a post players game more because of Lebron's style.

Do you at least agree that having Wade and Lebron (who play a similar style of ball dominance and don't play off the ball well due to a lack of shooting) made it worse?

Your take is that Lebron/Wade/Bosh is the same as Lebron/Ray Allen/Bosh?

Every player has a certain style that has an optimal teammate.

Kobe and Steve Nash don't make sense together...Kobe is too ball dominant.

Ray Allen and Steve Nash make much more sense.

Doesn't mean anything other than certain styles work better than others.

I also think you really discount how many great shots Lebron got Bosh in that offense. Yea, Bosh didn't get the ball in the post a lot, but that also has to do with the fact that he's not a great post player. I mean...he's good, but not great.

If those Heat had prime Dirk or even like a current Al Jefferson or something...they'd have thrown it to him in the post more often.

[Smoke117]

Uh...how is it completely LEbrons fault when Wade is the 2nd option? I'm not happy with how much we paid Bosh, but this Lebron shit is so tiring...HE WAS THE 3RD OPTION.

[LAZERUSS]

Chris Bosh...with Lebron, four straight Finals, and two straight titles in their four years together.

The rest of his career... a complete loser that couldn't even post a winning record with Wade.

[Bankaii]

Kobe in '04 & '13?
Slayed. I swear that guy types everything out his ass.

[SouBeachTalents]

Chris Bosh...with Lebron, four straight Finals, and two straight titles in their four years together.

The rest of his career... a complete loser that couldn't even post a winning record with Wade.

He's a superstar doe