Wilt Chamberlain's Unstoppable Fadeaway

[Dr Hawk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA

[PHILA]

The best bank shot of all time, certainly among the big men. When he was in rhythm, that shot was indefensible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA&t=3m31s

[StephHamann]

He could shoot like Dirk but was below 60% from the FT line.

Makes sense

[LAZERUSS]

He could shoot like Dirk but was below 60% from the FT line.

Makes sense

Just look at the footage. Chamberlain's range was typically 10-12 ft., albeit, he could hit shots from up to 15 ft.

When Chamberlain came into the league, his range was outstanding...

http://wiltfan.tripod.com/quotes.html




Carl Braun said "He [Wilt] disorganizes you under the basket the same way [as Bill Russell, on defense]. With Wilt, of course, there's that offense on top of it, which is better than Russell's. He hit on all those jumpers."
"Yes, Wilt hit on those jumpers...Wilt did come into the league with a good touch from the outside, which made his early scoring that much more significant. He wasn't just dunking the ball then."

--Red Holzman. A View from the Bench. P.70

What separated him from Duncan was his quickness, and leaping ability. And he was a phenomenal catch-and-shoot player. He seldom wasted time dribbling around trying to get better position.

True, as time went by, his range shrunk, but his efficiency also sky-rocketed. He was essentially playing like Shaq from '66 thru '69...albeit, he was a much better passer (as well as rebounder, defender, and shot-blocker.)

A prime "scoring" Chamberlain was the most unstoppable player in NBA history.

And before some idiot claims that his post-season scoring shrunk...

:roll: :roll: :roll:

A prime "scoring" Chamberlain was hanging series of 28.0 ppg, 29.2 ppg, 30.1 ppg, 30.5 ppg, and 33.6 ppg on RUSSELL and his swarming teammates:

http://www.nba.com/history/players/chamberlain_bio.html


In Chamberlain's first year, and for several years afterward, opposing teams simply didn't know how to handle him. Tom Heinsohn, the great Celtics forward who later became a coach and broadcaster, said Boston was one of the first clubs to apply a team-defense concept to stop Chamberlain. "We went for his weakness," Heinsohn told the Philadelphia Daily News in 1991, "tried to send him to the foul line, and in doing that he took the most brutal pounding of any player ever.. I hear people today talk about hard fouls. Half the fouls against him were hard fouls."

Of course, this playoff "choker" also had post-seasons of 33.2 ppg, 34.7 ppg, 35.0 ppg, and 37.0 ppg. And he had post-season series of 37.0 ppg, 37.0 ppg, 38.6 ppg, and 38.7 ppg. He also had FOUR post-season games of 50+ points (including the ONLY THREE ever by a GOAT in a "must-win" game.) He added a "must-win" Finals game of 45 points, of which only MJ has equalled among the "GOATs." Overall, a "scoring" Chamberlain had 11 40+ point games (13 overall BTW), in his 52 playoff games...or 21% of them (and 30 of those 52 games came against Russell.)

Of course, had a prime Chamberlain had the luxury of routinely facing stiffs like Shaq, Kareem, and Hakeem did in their playoff runs...and his numbers would have been off the charts.

For example, Russell dramatically elevated his scoring and efficiency in the five post-season series in which he faced the Lakers in the 60's (not counting his 6th against Wilt in '69, when he did absolutely nothing.)

Now, had Wilt had faced those Lakers even ONCE...


Ok, here we go:

'59-60:

Against the entire NBA that season: 37.6 ppg on a .461 FG%

Against the Lakers in 9 H2H's: 36.8 ppg on a .430 FG%

High games of 41, 41, 41, 45, and 52.


'60-61:

Against the entire NBA: 38.4 ppg on a .509 FG%

Against the Lakers in 10 H2H's: 40.1 ppg on a .506 FG%

High games were 41, 41, 43, 44, 46, and 56 points.


'61-62:

Against the entire NBA: 50.4 ppg on a .506 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2H games: 51.6 ppg on a .503 FG%

High games of 48, 56, 57, 60, 60, and 78 (with 43 rebounds.)


'62-63: Against the entire NBA: 44.8 ppg on a .528 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 48.6 ppg on a .541 FG%

High games of 40, 40, 42, 53, 63, and 72 points.


'63-64: Against the entire NBA: 36.9 ppg on a .524 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 44.3 ppg on a .484 FG%

High games of 40, 41, 47, 49, 50, 55, and 59 points.


'64-65: Against the entire NBA: 34.7 ppg on a .510 FG%

Against LA in 8 H2Hs: 29.9 ppg on a .476 FG%

High games of 40, 40, and 41 points.


'65-66: Against the entire NBA: 33.5 ppg on a .540 FG%

Against LA in 10 H2Hs: 40.8 ppg on a .559 FG%

High games of 42, 49, 53, and 65 points.


'66-67: Against the entire NBA: 24.1 ppg on a .683 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2Hs: 26.4 ppg on a .759 FG%

High games of 32, 37, and 39 points.


'67-68: Against the entire NBA: 24.3 ppg on a .595 FG%

Against LA in 7 H2Hs: 28.1 ppg on a .638 FG%

High games of 31, 32, 35, and 53 points.


Overall, in those 86 games:

40 Point Games: 42

50 Point Games: 19

60 Point Games: 7

70 Point Games: 2

High game of 78 points.

[GIF REACTION]

Wilt's good but he'd have trouble covering Demarcus.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt's good but he'd have trouble covering Demarcus.

Cousins is 6-9 1/2, with a 28 inch vertical...

Here is what a 36 year old Wilt did against the peak 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier in his LAST season...


vs. Lanier in 6 H2H's:

Lanier: 21.2 ppg, 13.4 rpg (5 known games), .374 FG% (5 known games)

Wilt: 19.8 ppg, 16.3 rpg, .764 FG%

And here is some footage of Lanier...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O12jD3gnkL0


Sorry, but a prime Chamberlain would have dominated Cousins, just like he did Willis Reed.

[WillC]

Watching Wilt hit those fadeaways is pretty impressive, especially when you consider he was a .540 FG% shooter for his career. His accuracy was impressive and that shot was unguardable.

[LAZERUSS]

Watching Wilt hit those fadeaways is pretty impressive, especially when you consider he was a .540 FG% shooter for his career. His accuracy was impressive and that shot was unguardable.

And that .540 is deceptive, too. It came in leagues that shot about .440 in the same span...or a full 10 percentage points above the league average.

Put that into context...

His NBA shot an eFG% of .440. Move him into the current NBA, which shoots an eFG% of .496 (and .501 in '14), and it would translate to .609.

[GIF REACTION]

Negative. Demarcus too big. Too strong. Bully ball.

[Pointguard]

Here is a page from the good old days regarding the Wilt fadeaway.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=199503&page=8

[LAZERUSS]

Negative. Demarcus too big. Too strong. Bully ball.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Cousins is no bigger than a prime Lanier. Nor as big as a young Gilmore. And an old Wilt, on a surgically repaired knee, easily outplayed both of them H2H.

BTW, Robert Parish faced both Shaq and Gilmore, and he claimed that Gilmore was stronger.

[LAZERUSS]

Here is a page from the good old days regarding the Wilt fadeaway.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=199503&page=8

As always...just brilliant.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[GIF REACTION]

Demarcus is a different breed.

[LAZERUSS]

Demarcus is a different breed.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

If you think Cousins would be putting up 24-13 seasons against REAL centers, you are deluding yourself. In the early 70's, he would be facing Cowens, Hayes, Unseld, Lanier, Thurmond, Reed, Bellamy, Kareem, and Wilt on a nightly basis. (And, Gilmore was dominating the ABA at that time.)

Instead, Cousins is routinely feasting on teams with either a clod for a center, or a team with no center at all.

[Elosha]

At some point, I hope to take the time to analyze each of these shots, the level of defense played, the nature of the double team or single team coverage, etc.

But as a matter of some initial observations. It's clear that Wilt had a solid fadeaway off the glass from the left block, although there are some variations in this video. But any highlight video is inherently a bit deceiving. Watching a Michael Jordan highlight video might make you think he never missed a fadeaway or mid range jumpshot in his life. Watching a Lebron video could lead one to believe he's an all time great three point shooter or never missed a drive to the basket. The fact of the matter is no fan makes "lowlight" videos highlighting any all time great's misses, even though such footage is routinely analyzed by scouts, coaches, players, and those who really know the game.

The point is - we really don't know how well Wilt shot these type of shots and we have to real idea if it was really "unstoppable" or if it was a shot that his defenders encouraged him to take as a lower percentage shot farther away from the basket. We really don't know how many of these shots he took or made over his career - a video showing 30 or 40 of these made shots really cannot give us any idea of how truly effective the shot is on a game by game basis. Moreover, if you just take a bit of time to look at some of the limited game footage and unedited videos of Wilt, you can find examples of times where he missed these shots, sometimes quite badly.

What we know from highlights is that Wilt could make such shots and that he probably took them on a fairly regular basis. Whether it was frequent and efficient enough to really could be compared to a truly verified "unstoppable" shot such as KAJ's skyhook, MJ's fadeaway, or Dirk's fadeaway is probably unknowable but I have my doubts. I believe Wilt more likely had a fairly average percentage on such shots, and increased his overall percentage and points primarily by dunks, offensive rebounds/putbacks, finger rolls and other, closer to the basket shots. His free throw percentage demonstrates he's not naturally a good mid-range jumpshooter, although going off glass makes such a jumpshot much easier of if you know the angles.

None of this is to bash Wilt, I simply don't believe a 6 minute highlight video can come anywhere close to establishing an "unstoppable fadeaway" particularly where we don't have any idea how well or how frequently he shot it.

Oh, and P.S. Laz can you please stop claiming DJ has a 28 inch vertical. I don't care what the draft measurement report says, there is no possible way that is currently true. There are way too many videos and photos where his head is clearly rim level or even above, which suggests a vertical of at least 39 inches. You can denigrate his offensive abilities if you wish, but the guy indisputedly has one of the explosive verticals all-time for a big man.

[LAZERUSS]

At some point, I hope to take the time to analyze each of these shots, the level of defense played, the nature of the double team or single team coverage, etc.

But as a matter of some initial observations. It's clear that Wilt had a solid fadeaway off the glass from the left block, although there are some variations in this video. But any highlight video is inherently a bit deceiving. Watching a Michael Jordan highlight video might make you think he never missed a fadeaway or mid range jumpshot in his life. Watching a Lebron video could lead one to believe he's an all time great three point shooter or never missed a drive to the basket. The fact of the matter is no fan makes "lowlight" videos highlighting any all time great's misses, even though such footage is routinely analyzed by scouts, coaches, players, and those who really know the game.

The point is - we really don't know how well Wilt shot these type of shots and we have to real idea if it was really "unstoppable" or if it was a shot that his defenders encouraged him to take as a lower percentage shot farther away from the basket. We really don't know how many of these shots he took or made over his career - a video showing 30 or 40 of these made shots really cannot give us any idea of how truly effective the shot is on a game by game basis. Moreover, if you just take a bit of time to look at some of the limited game footage and unedited videos of Wilt, you can find examples of times where he missed these shots, sometimes quite badly.

What we know from highlights is that Wilt could make such shots and that he probably took them on a fairly regular basis. Whether it was frequent and efficient enough to really could be compared to a truly verified "unstoppable" shot such as KAJ's skyhook, MJ's fadeaway, or Dirk's fadeaway is probably unknowable but I have my doubts. I believe Wilt more likely had a fairly average percentage on such shots, and increased his overall percentage and points primarily by dunks, offensive rebounds/putbacks, finger rolls and other, closer to the basket shots. His free throw percentage demonstrates he's not naturally a good mid-range jumpshooter, although going off glass makes such a jumpshot much easier of if you know the angles.

None of this is to bash Wilt, I simply don't believe a 6 minute highlight video can come anywhere close to establishing an "unstoppable fadeaway" particularly where we don't have any idea how well or how frequently he shot it.

Oh, and P.S. Laz can you please stop claiming DJ has a 28 inch vertical. I don't care what the draft measurement report says, there is no possible way that is currently true. There are way too many videos and photos where his head is clearly rim level or even above, which suggests a vertical of at least 39 inches. You can denigrate his offensive abilities if you wish, but the guy indisputedly has one of the explosive verticals all-time for a big man.

You know what? We only have 2% of Wilt's entire NBA career on video, and aside from an ASG where he hung 42 points on 17-23 shooting, we have ZERO footage from any of his 271 40+ point games.

If anything, we are SHORT-CHANGED by these videos.

As for Cousins...no way in hell does he have a 39" vertical. Not even close.

[GimmeThat]

how easy is that shot to pass out of a double team

[LAZERUSS]

how easy is that shot to pass out of a double team

Easy enough to lead the league in assists one season, and finish 3rd in another. Hell, in a season in which he averaged 34 ppg, he STILL handed out 5.2 apg.

[Psileas]

Whether it was frequent and efficient enough to really could be compared to a truly verified "unstoppable" shot such as KAJ's skyhook, MJ's fadeaway, or Dirk's fadeaway is probably unknowable but I have my doubts. I believe Wilt more likely had a fairly average percentage on such shots, and increased his overall percentage and points primarily by dunks, offensive rebounds/putbacks, finger rolls and other, closer to the basket shots.

Maybe, but then again, equally deceiving is the percentage of other signature moves. Kareem, Jordan, Hakeem, all these guys have made thousands of dunks and layups, without being 3 point (or traditional 3 point, for Jordan's case) shooters, so the efficiency of their own moves isn't as high as their percentages indicate. Maybe Dirk is somewhat of an exception, but Dirk is without a doubt a better natural shooter than them.


His free throw percentage demonstrates he's not naturally a good mid-range jumpshooter, although going off glass makes such a jumpshot much easier of if you know the angles.

First, I agree with the last part of it. Wilt uses the glass a lot. Tim Duncan doesn't seem like a good mid range shooter when he takes FT's either, but we all know how efficient he is using the glass.
Second, Alex Hannum wondered about Wilt's FT percentage and had suggested to him that he use his patent jump shot when shooting FT's, but Wilt found this too awkward to try (although he tried other weird methods that other bad FT shooters - see Shaq - refused to).

[senelcoolidge]

Great footage because it shatters the ignorant notion that Wilt was just some tall slow lumbering center that only dunked the ball. Quoting someone from the clip, "he was uncommonly skilled".

[LAZERUSS]

Maybe, but then again, equally deceiving is the percentage of other signature moves. Kareem, Jordan, Hakeem, all these guys have made thousands of dunks and layups, without being 3 point (or traditional 3 point, for Jordan's case) shooters, so the efficiency of their own moves isn't as high as their percentages indicate. Maybe Dirk is somewhat of an exception, but Dirk is without a doubt a better natural shooter than them.



First, I agree with the last part of it. Wilt uses the glass a lot. Tim Duncan doesn't seem like a good mid range shooter when he takes FT's either, but we all know how efficient he is using the glass.
Second, Alex Hannum wondered about Wilt's FT percentage and had suggested to him that he use his patent jump shot when shooting FT's, but Wilt found this too awkward to try (although he tried other weird methods that other bad FT shooters - see Shaq - refused to).

A prime Duncan had seasons in which he shot .414 and .402 from 3-10 feet.

[GimmeThat]

my gut tells me that coaching circles who saw what the D'Antoni small ball did to the league, naturally comes to defend players that of the statue of wilt.

and that for as much as the first pioneering PG (if I may use such term) of the league Bob Cousy gets made fun of in his footages.

dribbling, is an element that is perhaps more crucial than others may realize when it comes to possessions, in which teams feel as if they have the chance to be a victor.

for the arguments that Wilt won, when he had a supporting cast equate to that of Russell.

Wilt's never necessarily played with a type of style which benefited his back court players to become better at managing the game, to grow with him in that essence, instead of just the ability to shoot a high percentage field goal.


to phrase it in another way, Wilt was the guy, who asked his friends to look after his girl, while Russell was the guy who grew in diverse ways with his friends and as each of them went on to have their own girl, they all still maintained a healthy friendship.

[LAZERUSS]

my gut tells me that coaching circles who saw what the D'Antoni small ball did to the league, naturally comes to defend players that of the statue of wilt.

and that for as much as the first pioneering PG (if I may use such term) of the league Bob Cousy gets made fun of in his footages.

dribbling, is an element that is perhaps more crucial than others may realize when it comes to possessions, in which teams feel as if they have the chance to be a victor.

for the arguments that Wilt won, when he had a supporting cast equate to that of Russell.

Wilt's never necessarily played with a type of style which benefited his back court players to become better at managing the game, to grow with him in that essence, instead of just the ability to shoot a high percentage field goal.


to phrase it in another way, Wilt was the guy, who asked his friends to look after his girl, while Russell was the guy who grew in diverse ways with his friends and as each of them went on to have their own girl, they all still maintained a healthy friendship.

Chamberlain's '72 championship Lakers had Goodrich and West, who averaged 26 ppg each. Of course, Chamberlain had to pick it up in the Finals, when West went missing.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

His efficiency on fadeaways were terrible. LOL @ anyone comparing him to Dirk..............the skill, technique, angle, footwork is eons apart. Dirk is in the running for GOAT fadeaway, Wilt if we had numbers would look very pedestrian. He tried too much to be cute and skilled when he shouldve just used his size advantage like Shaq

[julizaver]

About efficiency and field goal percentages:
- a good shooter makes around 40 % of his mid range signature shots ( fadeaways, off the glass, step back, one leg shots, hook shots) during games. And up his FG% with lay ups, dunks or high percentage shots near the basket. There is an excelent article about B. Griffin and how hard he train in order to improve his shot.

About Wilt - he had this shot and he relied heavy on it early on his career. That's proven. There is second half video of '64 Finals game, where he made some fadeaway shots, and you can see that in the video.

[Stringer Bell]

Really good use of the glass.

Which other players were very effective at bank shots?

Tim Duncan
Bill Walton
Scottie Pippen

Who else?