Would '91 Jordan be a top 3 player in todays league?

[dubeta]

This is an interesting question


If you transported '91 MJ in today's league, would he be a top 3 player? He would be up against LeBron, AD, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Curry, Paul, Griffin, Melo etc.


Where would you rank Jordan? There are arguments for/against top 3 in the league, but it would be interesting to theorize.



Would he be able to adjust to the more sophisticated defenses? Defenses zoning him constantly, getting double teamed every possession?

Also would his 3 point shot be good enough to be a guard in today's era? Theres a lot of questions here.


http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/pictures/images/michael_jordan_1991_01.jpg

[dubeta]

Further insights (Credit to GIF REACTIONS)

http://share.gifyoutube.com/m6orYV.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/yAVn1D.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/Kr5r9w.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/KBpn5n.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/y0x7wP.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/vWrE84.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/mGpE10.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/KYd8xJ.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/mlD7oa.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/yoXOod.gif

[Wade's Rings]

:biggums: He'd be the Best Player in the League.

[smoovegittar]

:biggums: He'd be the Best Player in the League.

This. We've yet to see a player like him. Yet.

[Lebron23]

Dubeta is a very funny MOFO.

[GIF REACTION]

Duly noted Du.

[LBJFTW]

:biggums: He'd be the Best Player in the League.

No one would ever know because Lebron would collude with him. :lol

But in all seriousness Dubeta is clearly holding the L due to 3ball exposing Lebron relative to Jordan.

[Foster5k]

In a league where role players are winning Finals MVPs, Jordan would be licking his chops. He would be the lion among these domesticated kittens.

Peak Wade looked unstoppable and won a championship. Hell, imagine peak Wade right now. The Heat would be favorites to win it all. Now, plug in prime Michael Jordan in today's league. Game over.

[Wade's Rings]

No one would ever know because Lebron would collude with him. :lol

But in all seriousness Dubeta is clearly holding the L due to 3ball exposing Lebron relative to Jordan.

:oldlol: Dubeta been taking L's all over the place lately.

[LBJFTW]

In a league where role players are winning Finals MVPs, Jordan would be licking his chops. He would be the lion among these domesticated kittens.

Peak Wade looked unstoppable and won a championship. Hell, imagine peak Wade right now. The Heat would be favorites to win it all. Now, plug in prime Michael Jordan in today's league. Game over.

Don't remind me... it sucks watching the game in it's most inferior form. Wish I could have been at the games during a time when the game was actually good in an era of alphas rather than betas.

[Lakers2877]

No offense but that's not a very interesting question. I assume you are at least 32-33 years of age? I mean Chris Paul? James Harden? Blake Girfin? Are you serious?

[Wade's Rings]

In a league where role players are winning Finals MVPs, Jordan would be licking his chops. He would be the lion among these domesticated kittens.

Peak Wade looked unstoppable and won a championship. Hell, imagine peak Wade right now. The Heat would be favorites to win it all. Now, plug in prime Michael Jordan in today's league. Game over.

Elite Scoring, Passing, and Defense. The Gap between Jordan and Bron/Durant/AD would be massive.

[Beastmode88]

No one would ever know because Lebron would collude with him. :lol

But in all seriousness Dubeta is clearly holding the L due to 3ball exposing Lebron relative to Jordan.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[dubeta]

Elite Scoring, Passing, and Defense. The Gap between Jordan and Bron/Durant/AD would be massive.


Elite scoring is the only thing we agree on. But remember, Jordan was a 30 ppg scorer on 50% shooting in a much faster paced league, where the average fg% was also higher, AND defenses were worse. What would that traslate to in todays league, with less possessions, less fg%, zone defense?

30 ppg on 50% would drop to 23-24ppg on 45%




Would a prime MJ averaging 23 ppg on 45% shooting be a top 3 player????? I think not :facepalm

[Asukal]

Everybody would jump onto the "Like Mike" bandwagon.
Lebron would probably become his 2nd option because he is a colluding beta.

:lebroncry:

[andgar923]

Top 3 are you kidding me?:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

OP has clearly never seen MJ play.

MJ'll be lucky enough to be top 10 on his best days.

OP= stupid

[dubeta]

Top 3 are you kidding me?:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

OP has clearly never seen MJ play.

MJ'll be lucky enough to be top 10 on his best days.

OP= stupid

I'm 38 years old and yes I have seen MJ play


I was 15 when I saw MJ play for the 1st time, my dad took me to the Bulls- Heat game back in 1992 in the 1st round.


I've also seen him through various regular season games between 1992-1998 and YES I saw him live in the 1997 NBA Finals vs. the Jazz. It was garbage nosebleed seats but I WAS in the Building.


He was a great player, I studied him closely, watched him play, I'm just not sure if he would be a top 3 player in todays league :confusedshrug:

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm 38 years old and yes I have seen MJ play


I was 15 when I saw MJ play for the 1st time, my dad took me to the Bulls- Heat game back in 1992 in the 1st round.


I've also seen him through various regular season games between 1992-1998 and YES I saw him live in the 1997 NBA Finals vs. the Jazz. It was garbage nosebleed seats but I WAS in the Building.


He was a great player, I studied him closely, watched him play, I'm just not sure if he would be a top 3 player in todays league :confusedshrug:

cant tell if serious anymore

[nzahir]

I'm 38 years old and yes I have seen MJ play


I was 15 when I saw MJ play for the 1st time, my dad took me to the Bulls- Heat game back in 1992 in the 1st round.


I've also seen him through various regular season games between 1992-1998 and YES I saw him live in the 1997 NBA Finals vs. the Jazz. It was garbage nosebleed seats but I WAS in the Building.


He was a great player, I studied him closely, watched him play, I'm just not sure if he would be a top 3 player in todays league :confusedshrug:
Bruh lol, im not even an Mj fan and I know he would be the best, lebron closely after him at 2

[The-Legend-24]

Healthy KD
MJ




Bran

[Soundwave]

Get the f**k outta here with that question. '91 Jordan would be MVP, scoring champion, and Finals MVP this season in the NBA on any half-way decent team.

[gilalizard]

MJ would eat bron's lunch.

[Kobe_6/8]

Rose
'91 Jordan
Butler
Gasol
Noah

MJ easily wins MVP & FMVP.

[Carter_17]

Top 3 hardly. Top 5 for sure though

Curry
LBJ
Harden
Durant
MJ

[smoovegittar]

Top 3 hardly. Top 5 for sure though

Curry
LBJ
Harden
Durant
MJ

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Oh, the pain.

[dubeta]

Top 3 hardly. Top 5 for sure though

Curry
LBJ
Harden
Durant
MJ

Hmm. fair enough, so you think MJ would still be better than Griffin, Westbrook, CP3, and Melo?

[Straight_Ballin]

I'm 38 years old and yes I have seen MJ play


I was 15 when I saw MJ play for the 1st time, my dad took me to the Bulls- Heat game back in 1992 in the 1st round.


I've also seen him through various regular season games between 1992-1998 and YES I saw him live in the 1997 NBA Finals vs. the Jazz. It was garbage nosebleed seats but I WAS in the Building.


He was a great player, I studied him closely, watched him play, I'm just not sure if he would be a top 3 player in todays league :confusedshrug:

This guy is the biggest anti Jordan toll. :lol

No one is buying this crap gimmick.

We have proof that Jordan didn't know how to lose in the finals as evidenced by his 6/6 finals perfection.

This means that if he played in finals from 2010 - 2015, he would have prevented the following star players from winning rings those years who were also in the finals:

Kobe
Pau
Dirk
Wade
Bron
Bosh
Duncan
Manu
Parker
Curry

Nuff said

[Dro]

I'm 38 years old and yes I have seen MJ play
You're a fuking liar or the worst troll in the history of the internet......You make absolutely the most ridiculous, stupidest, comments in history. I wish you were banned for life.......

[warriorfan]

:roll:

[Bandito]

Would still be better than Lebron.

[OldSchoolBBall]

30 ppg on 50% would drop to 23-24ppg on 45%





:coleman: :facepalm :roll: :roll:

[Harison]

Dubeta just trolling, he cant be that dumb :lol Or can he? :facepalm

[Angel Face]

Michael Jordan



Kevin Durant
Lebron James

[sportjames23]

I knew dubeta was stupid, but then this bitch gotta revel in his stupidity by asking this question.

I mean, damn son. :facepalm

[ClipperRevival]

Jesus Christ man. :facepalm

[HOoopCityJones]

dubeta alittle d!ck drunk from 2/6 fuccing him in the asshole.

[eeeeeebro]

he would average 30+ ppg

[PickernRoller]

He would be the best player in the league.

[sekachu]

Hmm. fair enough, so you think MJ would still be better than Griffin, Westbrook, CP3, and Melo?




congratulation, you finally got one supporter Carter 17 :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Smh at people giving serious responses to this thread

[3ball]

.
MJ attacked in 1st half of Game 1 to give his team confidence in the face of Magic's veteran Lakers and the pressure of their first Finals game:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-06-2015/_YwKss.gif


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-06-2015/Nk3Y5Y.gif


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-06-2015/jrM6VL.gif


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-06-2015/Y0MNX5.gif


Best offensive player ever.. Top 5 perimeter defender ever... No one else has this level of two-way ability
.

[dubeta]

.
http://share.gifyoutube.com/m6orYV.gif



Yes, nice gif. This is exactly the point I was making.

When MJ has to face an actual zone defense where players can immediately leave their man and stop the driving lanes would MJ still be successful enough? I think not


Going from one defender -----> to going against a wall is a huge addition to the league with resulted in lower ppg averages in today's era

[3ball]

What if MJ had to face an actual zone defense


MJ was POY in college over bigs like Hakeem, Ewing and others where a true zone was allowed.. Otoh, today's game does not allow zone inside the paint.. Inside the 16 x 19 foot painted area, defenders have to remain within armslength (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) of their man (about 3 feet) at all times.

Otoh, defenders in previous eras were allowed to stay in the paint when their man was far out of armslength - Rule 2b (http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html) of the Illegal Defense Guidelines allowed defenders to stand in the paint "with no time restriction" if their man was anywhere in the paint, or within 3 feet of either side.

To summarize - defenders in today's game aren't allowed to stand in the paint when there's no one else around, while previous era defenders could.


http://i.imgur.com/rW270Q6.gif


Notice Speights on baseline, left of the rim - ideally, he'd be waiting under the rim the whole time to contest Lebron.. But today's defensive 3 seconds rule doesn't allow defenders to wait in the 16 x 19 foot painted area if no one is within armslength (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) (about 3 feet).. So Speights has walk to AWAY from the rim to remain within armslength of his man, which prevents him from contesting Lebron.

Otoh, in previous eras, Rule 2b (http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html) of the Illegal Defense Guidelines allowed defenders to remain in the paint "with no time restriction" if their man was anywhere inside the paint, or within 3 feet or either side.. So in the clip above, Speights would've been waiting under the rim to contest Lebron and force him into a tougher shot.
.

[3ball]

When MJ has to face an actual zone defense where players can immediately leave their man and stop the driving lanes


However, to your point about zoning, defenders ARE allowed to zone outside the paint - but only outside the paint..

And the tradeoff is the aforementioned paint-camping ban - big men are forced to come OUT of their wheelhouse (the paint) to contest guards in THEIR wheelhouse, the perimeter.. Even Austin Rivers (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=374490) can be a superstar by beating bigs on the perimeter and finishing on unprotected rims.

Of course, previous eras shaded heavily in screen-roll situations too (seen below) - MJ destroyed these situations, but he had to pull-up for more jumpers, because the paint was not open after the screen roll like it is with today's spacing - in MJ's day, after the screen-roll, the paint would still be crowded because there was no spacing to draw everyone to the perimeter:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=358589&page=8.

[j3lademaster]

Poor man's Demar Derozan. Lucky to make an all star team

[VIntageNOvel]

3 pages before 3ball response
bait not strong enough:hammerhead:

[3ball]

When MJ has to face an actual zone defense where players can immediately leave their man and stop the driving lanes


You are referring to the strongside flood, where a defender is brought from the weakside to the strongside, so the strongside has more defenders to stop potential penetration.. However, defenders only need to be flooded to the strongside because they were drawn away by weakside spacing in the first place.. Without weakside spacing that draws defenders away from the strongside, the strongside flood isn't necessary.






In today's game, zone defense isn't allowed in the paint due to defensive 3 seconds, but MJ would still face zone outside the paint..

I guess that's offset by spacing.


That's right - in today's game, every team's 3-point shooting and spacing strategy uses weakside spacing to reduce the number of defenders on the strongside.. With defenders drawn to the weakside, they are furthest away to help on strongside penetration (that's the effect of spacing - being further away to help):


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-06-2015/uAh_p8.gif



However, they didn't shoot 3-pointers in the 80's, so there was no spacing.. Without spacing in previous eras, specifically weakside spacing, defenders stayed on the strongside, eliminating the need to flood anyone over via strongside flood.. With all defenders on the strongside, defenders were closest to help on strongside action.. That's the effect of no-spacing - defenders are closer to help.


http://i.imgur.com/fq3FHEN.gif


Weakside spacing leaves the strongside with fewer defenders, which necessitates the flooding of defenders BACK TO the strongside - this is how strongside floods originated.

Otoh, as the second GIF showed, weakside spacing didn't exist in previous eras, so defenders weren't lured away from strongside - defenders just remained on the strongside, which meant players faced strongsides that were already flooded with all 5 defenders (5-defender strongsides) (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11128077&postcount=21)..

These fully-flooded strongsides were a product of no-spacing and represented the "advanced" version of the game that included hand-checking, higher physicality, and legal paint-camping, and therefore requiring more sophisticated 2-point shooting ability..

This is a stark contrast to today's weakside spacing and resulting 1-defender strongsides (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=377570), which is basically the "beginner" version of the game that includes less strongside defenders, no hand-checking, no paint-camping, no physicality.. The highest levels of offensive sophistication (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11534471&postcount=108) simply aren't needed for the beginner version of the game.
.

[Prime_Shaq]

Top 1.

[scandisk_]

http://i.imgur.com/fq3FHEN.gif



:basketball

[riseagainst]

he would literally put up 40-10-10 on 55%FG.

[Le Shaqtus]

Dubeta getting body bagged.

[KembaWalker]

Dubeta getting body bagged.

It's become the norm around these parts :cheers:

[TheMan]

You're a fuking liar or the worst troll in the history of the internet......You make absolutely the most ridiculous, stupidest, comments in history. I wish you were banned for life.......
This

That's all I'll say in this worthless troll thread

[Mirror]

This was a very lazy troll effort by the OP, so how does this thread have multiple pages?

[Prometheus]

'91 Jordan would be the best player in any year in NBA history. He's the greatest basketball player that has ever lived.

[Dbrog]

Dubeta these gifs are actually very good and I'm surprised they are being ignored so much. Still though, 91' Jordan is debatably his best form. He would be the best player in the league (as would anyone in the top20 GOAT list in their absolute prime). The league is a bit weak right now. Basically just have to beat Curry, Harden, and Bronners (weakened version).

[jzek]

If Hibbert is a 2x All Star in this era then Jordan would be several levels above everyone else.

[jayfan]

Healthy KD
MJ




Bran

:facepalm



.

[atljonesbro]

Where would Pete Myers rank?

[Soundwave]

'91 Jordan is the better player in the NBA in any era.

[dubeta]

Where would Pete Myers rank?

Not sure..

[GrapeApe]

'91 Jordan is the better player in the NBA in any era.

Basically this. Jordan was arguably at his absolute peak in '91. I think it's safe to say that the player overwhelmingly considered to be the GOAT, at his peak, would be a top 3 player today. What's next, asking if peak Shaq would be the best center in the league today?

[King Jane]

definitely not

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDwJPY-Nneg

game is way more sophisticated this aint the isolation era

jordan couldnt play guard today without a 3 point shot curry would lite him up and westbrook would break him in half

he have to play power forward spot with his limited outside skill but he too small by modern standards most teams maybe put him as a 6 man like draymond green or ginobli

[dubeta]

definitely not

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDwJPY-Nneg

game is way more sophisticated this aint the isolation era

jordan couldnt play guard today without a 3 point shot curry would lite him up and westbrook would break him in half

he have to play power forward spot with his limited outside skill but he too small by modern standards most teams maybe put him as a 6 man like draymond green or ginobli


Hmmm finally someone with a legit argument here. Solid points bro, I made a similar argument in the earlier posts.




Do you think MJ could still adapt and be an effective player today? (Albeit not a top 3 player)

[diamenz]

I'm 38 years old and yes I have seen MJ play



if you were a teenager, you'd get a pass. your basketball knowledge is as low as your clout is on this board.

keep posting though - it's funny seeing you shit on yourself.

your trolling game is shit though. just because you get responses doesn't mean ur good LoL.

[GrapeApe]

definitely not

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDwJPY-Nneg

game is way more sophisticated this aint the isolation era

jordan couldnt play guard today without a 3 point shot curry would lite him up and westbrook would break him in half

he have to play power forward spot with his limited outside skill but he too small by modern standards most teams maybe put him as a 6 man like draymond green or ginobli

I can't tell if you're trolling the troll, legit trolling, or just being sarcastic. This place has become too confusing.

[diamenz]

I can't tell if you're trolling the troll, legit trolling, or just being sarcastic. This place has become too confusing.

it's the twilight zone man.

[Droid101]

I can't tell if you're trolling the troll, legit trolling, or just being sarcastic. This place has become too confusing.
Poe's Law. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law)

Generally used when referring to ridiculous political discussion bordering on trolling.

Don't know what we'll call it for delusional lebeta stans though. Maybe "Windhorst's Law."

[sportjames23]

Aaaaaaand, dubeta got banned. Again. :oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

Aaaaaaand, dubeta got banned. Again. :oldlol:

How can you guys tell when someone has been banned?

[3ball]

.
Weakside spacing results in less defenders on the strongside:


http://i.imgur.com/ZiSCq2s.gif



No weakside spacing results in more defenders on strongside:


http://i.imgur.com/YGrD4IP.gif

[3ball]

.
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-07-2015/oh6518.gif


No spacing meant you didn't have as much time to act because defenders were in closer proximity, so the pace and game flow was more hectic, random

The Sonics' defense on MJ in the 1996 Finals is a great example of the hectic, frantic nature of play when there's no spacing and defenders are closer..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WpkXlrJxtw

This was the series where everyone's stats were horrific except MJ's.. Pippen disappeared with 15/8 on 34% shooting - Mosgov in this year's Finals was much better 2nd option (14/8 and 2 blk on 50%).
.

[julizaver]

I have said it years ago - when everyone props MJ as the best ever, the time will pass and there will be a new generation of basketball fans who would have their new idols and their own best of all-time. The same with other All-time greats. That's life.

But I have watched MJ whole games during his prime and I can make the difference - no guard in today's game is better than MJ, and it is not even close. The closest thing is Kobe Bryant, who had similar game and body. But he is not MJ. And his career is at its very end, although he could play another 2 or 3 seasons, he is not the player he used to be - age, injuries and so on.

For those who think that Curry will lite up prime MJ - I can laugh only. Even if Curry is at his best, scoring 30-35 over MJ (3 times DPOY) hitting 7-8 trees, MJ would scored at least 10 more if that is the issue and he made his mind upon dueling with Curry. Curry is no match for MJ defensively - he's just lighter and weaker.

As a basketball fan I would be happy to see something better than Jordan, because it will be good for the game (I am not among so called MJ's stans) and I will be among the first to recognize it.

To answer the question - '91 MJ will be the best player in the league right now. He would be the league, the same way he was during the '90s.

[sportjames23]

How can you guys tell when someone has been banned?


Click on someone's name. If you can't send them a pm, it means they got banned. :oldlol:

[dubeta]

This is an interesting question


If you transported '91 MJ in today's league, would he be a top 3 player? He would be up against LeBron, AD, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Curry, Paul, Griffin, Melo etc.


Where would you rank Jordan? There are arguments for/against top 3 in the league, but it would be interesting to theorize.



Would he be able to adjust to the more sophisticated defenses? Defenses zoning him constantly, getting double teamed every possession?

Also would his 3 point shot be good enough to be a guard in today's era? Theres a lot of questions here.


http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/pictures/images/michael_jordan_1991_01.jpg



Further insights (Credit to GIF REACTIONS)

http://share.gifyoutube.com/m6orYV.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/yAVn1D.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/Kr5r9w.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/KBpn5n.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/y0x7wP.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/vWrE84.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/mGpE10.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/KYd8xJ.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/yoXOod.gif


Let's reopen the debate, would he even be a top 3-5 player in todays league?

[Segatti]

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/assets/4183253/Screen_Shot_2014-03-24_at_8.36.39_PM.png

You could literally say to your scrub center to stay away from the paint and the defensive anchor of the other team had to follow him. Such strong defense, my God :lol

[dubeta]

You could literally say to your scrub center to stay away from the paint and the defensive anchor of the other team had to follow him. Such strong defense, my God :lol


:lol :lol

I know right?



The strict man-to-man rules FORCED teams to single cover scorers, no zone defense was allowed










You know how easy it is to score in All-Star games? Like Westbrook effortlessly going for 40 points etc?




That's how easy it was to score in every game in the 80's, 90's




Just a joke :lol

[BigBalla44]

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Long_023c8d_2090739.jpg

[BigBalla44]

:biggums:
http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Long_023c8d_2090739.jpg

[diamenz]

Let's reopen the debate, would he even be a top 3-5 player in todays league?

the only ones debating this is yourself, your alts and your fellow lebron circle jerk cronies.