Why is Bird so overrated on ISH? Comparison between Bird, LeBron and Kobe

[RRR3]

LeBron James



LeBron James Career Regular Season Stats so far (911 games)



39.3 MPG, 27.3 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 6.9 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.8 BPG on .496/.342/.745 shooting



Some of his best statistical seasons:


2009-10: 39.0 MPG, 29.7 PPG, 7.3 RPG, 8.6 APG, 1.6 SPG, 1.0 BPG on .503/.333/.767 shooting

2011-12: 37.5 MPG, 27.1 PPG, 7.9 RPG, 6.2 APG, 1.9 SPG, 0.8 BPG on .531/.362/.771 shooting

2012-13: 37.9 MPG, 26.8 PPG, 8.0 RPG, 7.3 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.9 BPG on .565/.406/.753 shooting

2008-09: 37.7 MPG, 28.4 PPG, 7.6 RPG, 7.2 APG, 1.7 SPG, 1.1 BPG on .489/.344/.780 shooting

2005-06: 42.5 MPG, 31.4 PPG, 7.0 RPG, 6.6 APG, 1.6 SPG, 0.8 BPG on .480/.335/.738 shooting

2013-14: 37.7 MPG, 27.1 PPG, 6.9 RPG, 6.3 APG, 1.6 SPG, 0.3 BPG on .567/.379/.750 shooting

2007-08: 40.4 MPG, 30.0 PPG (led league), 7.9 RPG, 7.2 APG, 1.8 SPG, 1.1 BPG on .484/.315/.712 shooting





LeBron James Career NBA Playoff Stats so far (178 games)



42.5 MPG, 28.2 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 6.7 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.9 BPG on .473/.318/.752 shooting



Some of his most impressive playoff runs statistically:


2011-12: 23 games, 42.7 MPG, 30.3 PPG (led playoffs), 9.7 RPG, 5.6 APG, 1.9 SPG, 0.7 BPG on .500/.259/.739 shooting

2008-09: 14 games, 41.4 MPG, 35.3 PPG (led playoffs), 9.1 RPG, 7.3 APG, 1.6 SPG, 0.9 BPG on .510/.333/.749 shooting

2013-14: 20 games, 38.2 MPG, 27.4 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 4.8 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.6 BPG on .565/.407/.806 shooting

2014-15: 20 games, 42.2 MPG, 30.1 PPG, 11.3 RPG, 8.5 APG, 1.7 SPG, 1.1 BPG on .417/.227/.731 shooting

2012-13: 23 games, 41.7 MPG, 25.9 PPG, 8.4 RPG, 6.6 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.8 BPG on .491/.375/.777 shooting

2009-10: 11 games, 41.8 MPG, 29.1 PPG, 9.3 RPG, 7.6 APG, 1.7 SPG, 1.8 BPG on .502/.400/.733 shooting




LeBron James Awards and Accolades so far


2x NBA Champion

4x NBA MVP

2X NBA Finals MVP

11x NBA All-Star

9x All-NBA 1st Team

2x All-NBA 2nd Team

Rookie of the Year

5x All-Defensive 1st Team

1x All-Defensive 2nd Team

Led NBA in Field Goals made 4 times

Led NBA in Free Throws Made in 2008-09

Scoring Title in 2007-08

4th in NBA History in PPG

5th in NBA Playoffs History in PPG

2 30+ PPG Seasons

1x All-Star Game MVP

One of a select group of players to have 10 or more 50+ point games (he has 10)

2x Olympic Gold Medal

Fiba Americas Gold Medal












Kobe Bryant



Kobe Bryant Regular Season Stats to date (1280 games)


36.5 MPG, 25.4 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 4.8 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.5 BPG on .451/.334/.837 shooting



Some of Kobe's Best Regular Seasons Statistically


2005-06: 41.0 MPG, 35.4 PPG (led NBA), 5.3 RPG, 4.5 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.4 BPG on .450/.347/.850 shooting

2002-03: 41.5 MPG, 30.0 PPG, 6.9 RPG, 5.9 APG, 2.2 SPG, 0.8 BPG on. 451/.383/.843 shooting

2006-07: 40.8 MPG, 31.6 PPG (led NBA), 5.7 RPG, 5.4 APG, 1.4 SPG, 0.5 BPG on .463/.344/.868 shooting

2007-08: 38.9 MPG, 28.3 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 5.4 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.5 BPG on .459/.361/.840 shooting

2000-01: 40.9 MPG, 28.5 PPG, 5.9 RPG, 5.0 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.6 BPG on .464/.305/.853 shooting

2008-09: 36.1 MPG, 26.8 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 4.9 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.5 BPG on .467/.351/.856 shooting

2009-10: 38.8 MPG, 27.0 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 5.0 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.3 BPG on .456/.329/.811 shooting



Kobe Bryant Playoff Stats to date (220 games)


39.3 MPG, 25.6 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 4.7 APG, 1.4 SPG, 0.7 BPG on .448/.331/.816 shooting



Some of his best Playoff Runs stats wise


2007-08: 21 games, 41.1 MPG, 30.1 PPG (led playoffs), 5.7 RPG, 5.6 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.4 BPG on .479/.302/.809 shooting

2008-09: 23 games, 40.9 MPG, 30.2 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 5.5 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.9 BPG on .457/.349/.883 shooting

2009-10: 23 games, 40.1 MPG, 29.2 PPG, 6.0 RPG, 5.5 APG, 1.3 SPG, 0.7 BPG on .458/.374/.842 shooting

2000-01: 16 games, 43.4 MPG, 29.4 PPG, 7.3 RPG, 6.1 APG, 1.6 SPG, 0.8 BPG on .469/.324/.821 shooting

2001-02: 19 games, 43.8 MPG, 26.6 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 4.6 APG, 1.4 SPG, 0.9 BPG on .434/.379/.759 shooting

2002-03: 12 games, 44.3 MPG, 32.1 PPG (led playoffs), 5.1 RPG, 5.2 APG, 1.2 SPG, 0.1 BPG on .432/.403/.827 shooting



Kobe Bryant Awards and Accolades to Date


5X NBA Champion

2008 NBA MVP

2x NBA Finals MVP

17x NBA All-Star

11x All-NBA 1st Team

2x All-NBA 2nd Team

2x All-NBA 3rd Team

9x All-Defensive 1st Team

3x All-Defensive 2nd Team

Led NBA in PPG twice

Three 30+ PPG seasons

3rd in NBA History in Total Points Scored

Led NBA in FGs made 3 times

Led NBA in FTs made twice

Led NBA in total points 4 times

11th in NBA History in PPG (10th all time if we include ABA, as that lowers Gervin's PPG)


Slam Dunk Champion 1997

All-Rookie 2nd Team

2x Olympic Gold Medal

FIBA Americas Gold Medal

24 games of 50+ Points (IIRC). I think this is 3rd all time?

2nd highest individual scoring game in NBA history (81)

Most threes ever made in a game (12, tied with Donyell Marshall)










Larry Bird




Larry Bird Career NBA Stats (897 games, in other words LBJ has already played more)


38.4 MPG, 24.3 PPG, 10.0 RPG, 6.3 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.8 BPG on .496/.376/.886 shooting




Some of his best Stats in Regular Seasons


1986-87: 40.6 MPG, 28.1 PPG, 9.2 RPG, 7.6 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.9 BPG on .525/.400/.910 (led NBA) shooting

1987-88: 39.0 MPG, 29.9 PPG, 9.3 RPG, 6.1 APG, 1.6 SPG, 0.8 BPG on .527/.414/.916 shooting

1985-86: 38.0 MPG, 25.8 PPG, 9.8 RPG, 6.8 APG, 2.0 SPG, 0.6 BPG on .496/.423/.896 (led NBA) shooting

1984-85: 39.5 MPG, 28.7 PPG, 10.5 RPG, 6.6 APG, 1.6 SPG, 1.2 BPG on .522/.427/.882 shooting

1983-84: 38.3 MPG, 24.2 PPG, 10.1 RPG, 6.6 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.9 BPG on .492/.247/.888 (led NBA) shooting

1982-83: 37.7 MPG, 23.6 PPG, 11.0 RPG, 5.8 APG, 1.9 SPG, 0.9 BPG on .504/.286/.840 shooting



Larry Bird Career Playoff Stats (164 games, again less than LBJ. To Bird's credit he has one more ring thus far)



42.0 MPG, 23.8 PPG, 10.3 RPG, 6.5 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.9 BPG on .472/.321/.890 shooting



Some of his most impressive Playoff runs stats wise


1985-86: 18 games, 42.8 MPG, 25.9 PPG, 9.3 RPG, 8.2 APG, 2.1 SPG, 0.6 BPG on .517/.411/.927 shooting

1983-84: 23 games, 41.8 MPG, 27.5 PPG, 11.0 RPG, 5.9 APG, 2.3 SPG, 1.2 BPG on .524/.412/.879 shooting

1986-87: 23 ga,es. 44.1 MPG, 27.0 PPG, 10.0 RPG, 7.2 APG, 1.2 SPG, 0.8 BPG on .476/.341/.912 shooting

1984-85: 20 games, 40.8 MPG, 26.0 PPG, 9.1 RPG, 5.8 APG, 1.7 SPG, 1.0 BPG on .461/.280/.890 shooting

1987-88: 17 games, 44.9 MPG, 24.5 PPG, 8.8 RPG, 6.8 APG, 2.1 SPG, 0.8 BPG on .450/.375/.894 shooting

1980-81: 17 games, 44.1 MPG, 21.9 PPG, 14.0 RPG, 6.1 APG, 2.3 SPG, 1.0 BPG on .470/.375/.894 shooting



Larry Bird Awards and Accolades


NBA Hall of Fame

3x NBA Champion

3x NBA MVP

2x NBA Finals MVP

12x NBA All-Star

9x All-NBA 1st Team

1x All-NBA 2nd Team

3x All-Defensive 2nd Team

Led NBA in 3PT FGs made twice

Led NBA in FT% 4 times

11th All-Time in NBA FT%

16th All-Time in NBA PPG

NBA 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

Number 33 retired by Celtics

1x All-Star Game MVP

3x 3Pt shootout champion

Olympic Gold Medal 1992

World University Games Gold Medal

[4 Inches]

Cause he the only white guy in the top 10 http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/sass1.png

[HOoopCityJones]

Bird and Magic need to be adjusted in favor of guys like Duncan, Shaq and Kobe. They've had better careers, Ive always said this.

It's not a wash but I think the names Ive mentioned are interchangeable. Lebron will be there in awhile too.

[GIF REACTION]

People don't realize that stats in the 80's and some of the 90's were inflated when compared to today.

For goodness sake Adrian Dantley was a 30ppg scorer on 60%... Kiki Vanderwigh averaged high 20's and he was barely elite

Scoring 30 points per game is a lot harder today

[RRR3]

Bird and Magic need to be adjusted in favor of guys like Duncan, Shaq and Kobe. They've had better careers, Ive always said this.

It's not a wash but I think the names Ive mentioned are interchangeable.
(Disclaimer: My opinion isn't worth much here since I didn't see any of these guys in their prime much outside of LeBron. However, from what I know I think it is silly to act like Magic and Bird should automatically be top 5)


I think Magic has a better case over the other 3 than Bird, but I didn't watch him so who knows. :confusedshrug:

[brownmamba00]

Bird was a beast tho top 10 GOAT easily.

[HOoopCityJones]

(Disclaimer: My opinion isn't worth much here since I didn't see any of these guys in their prime much outside of LeBron. However, from what I know I think it is silly to act like Magic and Bird should automatically be top 5)


I think Magic has a better case over the other 3 than Bird, but I didn't watch him so who knows. :confusedshrug:

Magic is questionable strictly because of Defense imo. It's funny because a lot of the slights against Lebron's game caught early in his career (post game, defense, shooting) Magic gets the ultimate pass for.

[RRR3]

Bird was a beast tho top 10 GOAT easily.
Yeah, Bird is insane. But posters on here act like he was GOAT or some shit

[RRR3]

Magic is questionable strictly because of Defense imo. It's funny because a lot of the slights against Lebron's game caught early in his career (post game, defense, shooting) Magic gets the ultimate pass for.
I thought Magic was an amazing post player?

[KirbyPls]

Magic is questionable strictly because of Defense imo. It's funny because a lot of the slights against Lebron's game caught early in his career (post game, defense, shooting) Magic gets the ultimate pass for.

It's almost like there are different standards for judging Lebron (Kobe to an extent as well) than the previous heroes of the past.

Good post.

[DMV2]

(Disclaimer: My opinion isn't worth much here since I didn't see any of these guys in their prime much outside of LeBron. However, from what I know I think it is silly to act like Magic and Bird should automatically be top 5)


I think Magic has a better case over the other 3 than Bird, but I didn't watch him so who knows. :confusedshrug:
Bird was considered the better player between him and Magic. IDK...before my time.

Bird & Magic put the NBA in primetime TV, will always be Top 10 all-time.

[RRR3]

It's almost like there are different standards for judging Lebron (Kobe to an extent as well) than the previous heroes of the past.

Good post.
LeBron and Kobe are controversial and play in the age of information; therefore whenever they **** up, it gets magnified.

[HOoopCityJones]

I thought Magic was an amazing post player?

He was decent but Kareem was always The Lakers most consistent post scoring threat. Magic could score of course but for his size and how much he handled the ball you would expect more volume , but I suppose it's deflated because of his GOAT assisting.

[fragokota]

You must have meant underrated. Most nikkas have him #8,9 on their goat lists :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[RRR3]

You must have meant underrated. Most nikkas have him #8,9 on their goat lists :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
And?

There are at least 8 players with an argument over Bird IMO:

Jordan
Kareem
Wilt Russell
Shaq
Magic
Tim Duncan
LeBron
Kobe


:confusedshrug:

[Fallen Angel]

I have him ranked #11 on my All-Time list.

He's remembered more by his rivalry with Magic and leading those 80s Celtic teams, his longevity just isn't comparable to other greats who've played 15+ seasons and 10+ seasons of elite ball.

[fragokota]

And?

There are at least 8 players with an argument over Bird IMO:

Jordan
Kareem
Wilt Russell
Shaq
Magic
Tim Duncan
LeBron
Kobe


:confusedshrug:

There's no and, Bird is top 5 material.

[Fallen Angel]

People act like players already on Top 10 lists can never ever be removed from those lists. That's so stupid.

Julius Erving used to be Top 10, but in most cases he isn't even in the Top 15.

Get with the times, nobody is locked into the Top 10.

[Fallen Angel]

Lebron is undoubtedly the greatest SF in NBA History, so if people are trying to argue that Lebron is in the range of Top 8 to 10 on the All-Time list then Bird has to be below him.

[Soundwave]

Actually 3 championships as the no.1 option and 3 MVPs in basically only a 10-11 year career is fairly impressive.

Also career averages of 24/10/6 is pretty impressive too.

LeBron will probably drop to 25/6 apg/6 rpg as he gets older.

[Mirror]

That is a terrible set up by the OP. Say Bird is overrated, show giant stats spread apart making it difficult to compare directly and not stating directly why he believes Bird is overrated.

[Fallen Angel]

http://i.gyazo.com/3aeca473aaff7c0559782f0c50f51f74.png

Tim Duncan, who I have #5, has 5 championships and 2 MVPs.
Lebron, who I have #10, has 2 championships and 4 MVPs.

They've surpassed Bird, I know it's a hard pill to swallow but it's true.

[GIF REACTION]

Actually 3 championships as the no.1 option and 3 MVPs in basically only a 10-11 year career is fairly impressive.

Also career averages of 24/10/6 is pretty impressive too.

LeBron will probably drop to 25/6 apg/6 rpg as he gets older.
Bird played more minutes, against weaker team defenses, and minimal three so inflated rebounds.

[dgaras]

little black/hispanic kids on ish mad that a white guy is one of the best ever

your hate and racism will never change that

[Fallen Angel]

Why can't ISH ever have educational and formal discussions.

Everything has to be Bran, rape jokes, dick jokes, race jokes, and ring jokes. Great thing god has given us RealGM's Player Comparison subforum.

[Beastmode88]

People don't realize that stats in the 80's and some of the 90's were inflated when compared to today.

For goodness sake Adrian Dantley was a 30ppg scorer on 60%... Kiki Vanderwigh averaged high 20's and he was barely elite

Scoring 30 points per game is a lot harder today

Durant and harden are arguably the game's top scorers. 1/3 of their pts if not more come from FTA. Theres no physciality like there was back then, a touch foul gets u to the line now. Joke

[Young X]

He was decent but Kareem was always The Lakers most consistent post scoring threat. Magic could score of course but for his size and how much he handled the ball you would expect more volume , but I suppose it's deflated because of his GOAT assisting.Magic wasn't just a "decent" post up player, he's one of, if not THE best post up guards in NBA history.

[HOoopCityJones]

Magic wasn't just a "decent" post up player, he's one of, if not THE best post up guards in NBA history.

At 6'8 , 200 pounds he better damn well be. But how many guards naturally play from the post anyway? Kareem was better, Magic was decent. Nothing I said was wrong.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Magic wasn't just a "decent" post up player, he's one of, if not THE best post up guards in NBA history.

If you are talking about point guards, that title goes to Mark Jackson.

[LBJMVP]

imagine if there was a message board we could read that talked about magic and bird. im sure it would be the same as it was today and people would be hating on them and picking out every flaw in their game.

but there wasn't so there is no record of fans nitpicking at there games like there was today.