Fine the Clippers 10m, 1 First Round Pick if the "kidnapping" rumors are true

[noob cake]

This is straight up against the spirits of the free agency system.

[NumberSix]

Clippers should be forced to sell the team back to Donald Sterling.

[kennethgriffin]

if rumours are true?

blake posted a picture of him barricading the door shut


:roll:



and who cares... f*ck cuban... they deserve what they get for the chris paul veto

[TheBigVeto]

Clippers should be forced to sell the team back to Donald Sterling.

Would be best solution.

[PejaNowitzki]

He's not being kidnapped, he is just an oversized bitch of a man. Hope all of this drama was worth him being looked at like a big pu*** for the rest of his career.

[DMAVS41]

Please tell me there aren't people that actually think he was forced to do anything.

DJ backed out and didn't want to face Cuban/Parsons until the deal was done.

LOL....you can't fine the Clippers for anything. It's in the moratorium...nothing is binding until your name is on that dotted line at 12:01 am eastern time tonight.

This sucks for the Mavs and DJ is a huge bitch for doing this, but he also didn't **** us over like most crazy fans will say.

We are in the exact same position now that we would have been 3 days ago if he had just gone back to the Clippers. We signed Wes first...so that isn't connected....and we had absolutely no back up plan

Again, DJ is a huge bitch for this, but he didn't do long term damage to the Mavs by going back on his word...the damage would be nearly identical whether he did it tonight or 4 nights ago.

[kennethgriffin]

Please tell me there aren't people that actually think he was forced to do anything.

DJ backed out and didn't want to face Cuban/Parsons until the deal was done.

LOL....you can't fine the Clippers for anything. It's in the moratorium...nothing is binding until your name is on that dotted line at 12:01 am eastern time tonight.

This sucks for the Mavs and DJ is a huge bitch for doing this, but he also didn't **** us over like most crazy fans will say.

We are in the exact same position now that we would have been 3 days ago if he had just gone back to the Clippers. We signed Wes first...so that isn't connected....and we had absolutely no back up plan

Again, DJ is a huge bitch for this, but he didn't do long term damage to the Mavs by going back on his word...the damage would be nearly identical whether he did it tonight or 4 nights ago.



sometimes people say and do things differently when faced with pier pressure



if pierce/ blake/paul and a bunch of other dudes showed up at my house.... i'd go along with whatever those crazy ****s wanted me to do with my career... atleast until they left


whats he gonna do? say "gtfo i'm a maverick!" :lol

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Not true at all, DMavs.

Because the Mavs could have signed lower tier centers like Robin Lopez. They WOULD NOT have signed JJ Barea back as the point guard.

They probably would have went after someone like Kop to play PG.

[IncarceratedBob]

10 million lmao. do you know how much dough their owner has? you could fine him 10 BILLION and that still wouldnt be 5% of his money..

[IcanzIIravor]

This is straight up against the spirits of the free agency system.

Until he signs this is fair game. I'd expect any team to try such a full court press until the guy signs with a different team.

[Westbrook0]

sometimes people say and do things differently when faced with pier pressure
:lol

Lol, pier pressure.

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Pier+pressure_79ddb4_4972084.jpg

[DMAVS41]

Not true at all, DMavs.

Because the Mavs could have signed lower tier centers like Robin Lopez. They WOULD NOT have signed JJ Barea back as the point guard.

They probably would have went after someone like Kop to play PG.

Those are all minor grievances at best....

You put yourself in this position...you deserve what you get. Cuban already admitted he was going to tank if he didn't get DJ...so any BS about them signing Lopez...etc...won't hold up as Cuban stupidly went on record saying what he would have done.

Keep thinking this all made sense....starting with that Parsons signing. LOL...it's an utter disaster just like I said.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Those are all minor grievances at best....

You put yourself in this position...you deserve what you get.

Keep thinking this all made sense....

Your hate for Parsons is clearly showing through. If you honestly believe that having a guy wait nearly a week, then renegging on a deal while all the other free agents are snatched up would not change the course of a franchise. You really are an idiot.

[DMAVS41]

Your hate for Parsons is clearly showing through. If you honestly believe that having a guy wait nearly a week, then renegging on a deal while all the other free agents are snatched up would not change the course of a franchise. You really are an idiot.

We were going to tank. Cuban said so himself. Did you forget this? Cuban stupidly went on record telling the world his plan.

Again...keep supporting Parsons and Cuban...you morons are perfect together.

If you can't, after this debacle, admit I was right and on point on this stuff...you are just a moron.

How much more evidence do you need? Take the champions to 7 games with a flawed and incomplete roster. Sign Parsons with all our cap on a terrible contract that allows Parsons to opt out after year 2...negating any benefit to us....forces us to make the Rondo trade as we don't have a chance to win it all with current roster, lose in round 1, gamble everything on Parsons and free agents....lose completely.

Stuck hoping we finish bottom 7 or we give up our pick.

Yep...and I'm stupid for calling this over a year in advance? LOL

[IcanzIIravor]

Lol, pier pressure.

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Pier+pressure_79ddb4_4972084.jpg

:lol

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

We were going to tank. Cuban said so himself. Did you forget this? Cuban stupidly went on record telling the world his plan.

Again...keep supporting Parsons and Cuban...you morons are perfect together.

If you can't, after this debacle, admit I was right and on point on this stuff...you are just a moron.

Uh, I don't support Cuban one bit. He is the reason why the Mavs have sucked the last several years. You were the one defending him over blowing up the team.

You were the one that got your wish.

I wanted the Mavs to try it again in 2012. The last 3 years the Mavs have just been spinning their wheels. Even without Parsons they would still be spinning their wheels.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

First round exit is still a first round exit. Taking the champs to 7 games means squat in the long run.

[DMAVS41]

First round exit is still a first round exit. Taking the champs to 7 games means squat in the long run.

We had the pieces in place. We threw it away for Parsons...which you supported.

Will you admit this has been terrible? I just can't believe anyone is legit defending this shit anymore.

We had no plan. We went from "win now" to "get young"...after we traded away a bunch of young players.

If the plan was to get young and move on from Ellis...we never should have traded for Tyson or Rondo...those moves make no sense given what Cuban has said.

And the Parsons signing was just bad. Obvious from the jump...how you can't admit that now is beyond me.

[DMAVS41]

Uh, I don't support Cuban one bit. He is the reason why the Mavs have sucked the last several years. You were the one defending him over blowing up the team.

You were the one that got your wish.

I wanted the Mavs to try it again in 2012. The last 3 years the Mavs have just been spinning their wheels. Even without Parsons they would still be spinning their wheels.

Nah...it's all about the risk/reward.

It made sense in 11 even if it didn't work.

Also, just not true. We could have a very good team currently with max cap space coming next year....with a legit team last year as well that could have made a run.

Again...how you can claim I wasn't on point on this shit dating back to last summer is beyond me.

Maybe we actually could have landed a guy if we had a full team. You think DJ backing out doesn't have something to do with the fact that we don't have a god damn team yet again? Dude probably took a couple days and finally realized how shitty we'd be.

I was just proven right....it's over. Take the L...

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

We had the pieces in place. We threw it away for Parsons...which you supported.

Will you admit this has been terrible? I just can't believe anyone is legit defending this shit anymore.

We had no plan. We went from "win now" to "get young"...after we traded away a bunch of young players.

If the plan was to get young and move on from Ellis...we never should have traded for Tyson or Rondo...those moves make no sense given what Cuban has said.

And the Parsons signing was just bad. Obvious from the jump...how you can't admit that now is beyond me.

The Mavs traded for Tyson because they wanted to get rid of Calderon's contract and get an actual center that would play. Sammy D basically quit on the team. The Mavs had no other center.

And at that time, Dirk was only 35. He still was playing at a very good level. Another year, and he has fallen off**.... do you not get that?

A year can make a huge difference. When Dirk fell.... the Mavs need to get younger.

And they sought out the best player on the market for that.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Nah...it's all about the risk/reward.

It made sense in 11 even if it didn't work.

Also, just not true. We could have a very good team currently with max cap space coming next year....with a legit team last year as well that could have made a run.

Again...how you can claim I wasn't on point on this shit dating back to last summer is beyond me.

I was just proven right....it's over. Take the L...

How were you proven right? That because the Mavs lost in the first round with Ellis and the Mavs lost in the first round last year... that is being proven right?

Dude, you once again are just trying to find justification to hate on the Parsons contract. Because you think **gasp** that Ellis was going to lead the Mavs to a championship! Let that sink in! You thought Ellis was going to lead the Mavs to a championship! If that is being proven right, you must be in a mental ward.

[ClipperRevival]

Lol, pier pressure.

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Pier+pressure_79ddb4_4972084.jpg

What are you? The spelling police?

[Hittin_Shots]

So you guys gonna come 22nd right?

Do us a solid

[DMAVS41]

How were you proven right? That because the Mavs lost in the first round with Ellis and the Mavs lost in the first round last year... that is being proven right?

Dude, you once again are just trying to find justification to hate on the Parsons contract. Because you think **gasp** that Ellis was going to lead the Mavs to a championship! Let that sink in! You thought Ellis was going to lead the Mavs to a championship! If that is being proven right, you must be in a mental ward.


What?

I don't need justification to hate on the Parsons contract. It has been proven awful. Justification?

GTFO....a sane and honest human being would just admit being wrong at this point in your position.

Just like I gladly was willing to say that the Parsons contract needed to be looked at differently than I had if he had landed us DJ.

Again....it's not about what would have happened. It's about making smart decisions. Using all of our cap for a 2 year deal with Parsons wasn't worth it....especially in the "win now" mode we were clearly in by trading Calderon for Tyson on an expiring contract and then the Rondo trade.

You still ignore that part of the argument. You still think this was part of a plan...it wasn't.

LOL...I need a justification to hate on a 2 year contract for a guy that just sucked all year...missed the playoffs....and now we are in full on rebuilding....

You are the one that needs justification for defending it. Let that sink in.

[Westbrook0]

What are you? The spelling police?

Nah it's just funny because you misspell words that make me think of other things.

Some people misspell "there" or "their," etc. But you misspell things that take on a completely new meaning when it happens, such as "pier pressure" and "pulling a coop."

[DMAVS41]

The Mavs traded for Tyson because they wanted to get rid of Calderon's contract and get an actual center that would play. Sammy D basically quit on the team. The Mavs had no other center.

And at that time, Dirk was only 35. He still was playing at a very good level. Another year, and he has fallen off**.... do you not get that?

A year can make a huge difference. When Dirk fell.... the Mavs need to get younger.

And they sought out the best player on the market for that.

This doesn't help you get younger...at all...and it was a flawed team like I repeatedly told you.

Again, your claim is that we were trying to get younger and that Ellis was always a stop gap. Well guess what...you don't trade Calderon on a good contract for Tyson on an expiring contract if that is the goal. If Ellis is gone...you don't trade Calderon. You trade Calderon if you are going all in for the title the next few years and then doing a full on rebuild.

That is why the Calderon trade makes absolutely 0 sense your way.

You can't jump back and forth here.

You and Cuban are a perfect pair. You claim we were trying to get younger....and we just traded away Larkin, Crowder, Wright, and 2 draft picks for a half year rental for an aging/declining point guard.


None of it makes sense. I've tried to explain this to you for a full year now it seems. It's a shitty and incoherent plan.

At least the plan after the title in 11 made sense. This plan just doesn't make any sense....and because it didn't make sense....we are now irrelevant.

But keep on propping Parsons....:coleman:

[SugarHill]

Lol, pier pressure.

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Pier+pressure_79ddb4_4972084.jpg
:roll:

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

This doesn't help you get younger...at all...and it was a flawed team like I repeatedly told you.

Again, your claim is that we were trying to get younger and that Ellis was always a stop gap. Well guess what...you don't trade Calderon on a good contract for Tyson on an expiring contract if that is the goal. If Ellis is gone...you don't trade Calderon. You trade Calderon if you are going all in for the title the next few years and then doing a full on rebuild.

That is why the Calderon trade makes absolutely 0 sense your way.

You can't jump back and forth here.

You and Cuban are a perfect pair. You claim we were trying to get younger....and we just traded away Larkin, Crowder, Wright, and 2 draft picks for a half year rental for an aging/declining point guard.


None of it makes sense. I've tried to explain this to you for a full year now it seems. It's a shitty and incoherent plan.

At least the plan after the title in 11 made sense. This plan just doesn't make any sense....and because it didn't make sense....we are now irrelevant.

But keep on propping Parsons....:coleman:

Calderon wasn't on a "good" contract. And let me repeat to you. The Mavs had no center on their roster if they don't trade for Tyson. Let that sink in. **NO CENTER**

But believe in a universe where Ellis was going to lead the Mavs to a championship. Go ahead. You would be the **only** Mav fan believing that.

[Brokenbeat]

Lol, pier pressure.

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Pier+pressure_79ddb4_4972084.jpg

legit lol'd :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

As for the picture. Look up puns. It is spelled correctly.

[DMAVS41]

Calderon wasn't on a "good" contract. And let me repeat to you. The Mavs had no center on their roster if they don't trade for Tyson. Let that sink in. **NO CENTER**

But believe in a universe where Ellis was going to lead the Mavs to a championship. Go ahead. You would be the **only** Mav fan believing that.


You keep thinking like we had to rely on Ellis only. Uhhh...Calderon is on a good contract. Since when is 7.5 million a year for a legit starting guard....bad.

I was in favor, hugely, of the Calderon trade you clown...go check the posts. Once again you miss the point. The point is that that trade makes no sense given the plan you keep advocating.

The Tyson trade doesn't make sense if you are going to sign Parsons and then chase DJ in free agency. If you are going to do those two things...trading Ellis makes far more sense....again...remember you claim that Ellis was never going to be here long term. If that is the case...then the moves have no basis for defense. The moves can't be defended. The Rondo trade and Tyson trade can't be defended....at all.

I still am floored you can't see these contradictions.

As for whether or not a team build around Ellis/Dirk can win....we simply don't know, but I'd much rather have IT and Bradley and Ed Davis on this team right now over Chandler Parsons.

One puts you in the lottery...the other gets you to around 55 wins if healthy and keeps you "live" in Dirk's remaining years for a playoff run and at least playing meaningful games.

Your way? Well....that lands you Parsons on a terrible contract and best case scenario now is a top 7 pick.

But keep on keeping on....

[KNOW1EDGE]

Clippers should be forced to sell the team back to Donald Sterling.

Agreed.

No, but in all actuality, if DJ were to sign w/LAC, it wouldn't be against the rules and they wouldn't get penalized for it.

[BlazerRed]

Clippers should be forced to sell the team back to Donald Sterling.
:lol

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

You keep thinking like we had to rely on Ellis only. Uhhh...Calderon is on a good contract. Since when is 7.5 million a year for a legit starting guard....bad.

I was in favor, hugely, of the Calderon trade you clown...go check the posts. Once again you miss the point. The point is that that trade makes no sense given the plan you keep advocating.

As for whether or not a team build around Ellis/Dirk can win....we simply don't know, but I'd much rather have IT and Bradley and Ed Davis on this team right now over Chandler Parsons.

One puts you in the lottery...the other gets you to around 55 wins if healthy.

But keep on keeping on....

You always plug in guys on the roster that were never options. Why stop there? Let's let the Mavs sign Michael Jordan and Kareem in their primes. Makes about as much sense as you right now. I'm dealing with reality and you are dealing with stupid hypotheticals. And Ellis being the best player on the Mavs means a first round exit at best.

The Mavs have been trying to get younger and better since 2012. Ellis landed in their lap a couple of years ago and the Mavs wanted to stay afloat instead of tank then. But still wanted to get a young superstar.

You still believe an Ellis lead team was winning a championship.

[SwishSquared]

You always plug in guys on the roster that were never options. Why stop there? Let's let the Mavs sign Michael Jordan and Kareem in their primes. Makes about as much sense as you right now. I'm dealing with reality and you are dealing with stupid hypotheticals. And Ellis being the best player on the Mavs means a first round exit at best.

The Mavs have been trying to get younger and better since 2012. Ellis landed in their lap a couple of years ago and the Mavs wanted to stay afloat instead of tank then. But still wanted to get a young superstar.

You still believe an Ellis lead team was winning a championship.To be fair, IT, Ariza, and Ed Davis were all readily available last summer. All could have been had for the cost of Parsons' contract. Bradley likely would have required a S&T or massive overpay, but Dallas had more attractive options than overpaying for Parsons. Cubes got too worked up with beating Morey.

[DMAVS41]

You always plug in guys on the roster that were never options. Why stop there? Let's let the Mavs sign Michael Jordan and Kareem in their primes. Makes about as much sense as you right now. I'm dealing with reality and you are dealing with stupid hypotheticals. And Ellis being the best player on the Mavs means a first round exit at best.

The Mavs have been trying to get younger and better since 2012. Ellis landed in their lap a couple of years ago and the Mavs wanted to stay afloat instead of tank then. But still wanted to get a young superstar.

You still believe an Ellis lead team was winning a championship.

IT was absolutely an option. Are you serious? All he said was that he wanted to go to a team that really wanted him. The dude signed for next to nothing.

You think we aren't in the market for Ariza or Bradley? Why? Tell me why we can't get those guy? Those are the exact type of guys we get.

Just like this year...landing guys like Ed Davis or bringing back Crowder at a favored rate (would have been much less had we not traded him)...those are the type of value contracts we could have gotten to fill out the roster. Then you maybe make a trade....

I believe a team built around a core similar to IT/Harris/Barea/Ariza/Dirk/Tyson/Crowder....with cap space and trade assets....it keeps you "live" for making a run.

You keep ignoring that we would have had loads of cap space this summer my way....you just would have had 3 good players on good contracts instead of Parsons on an expiring deal.

Your obsession with defending the Parsons contract is unreal. What are you going to say when he opts out and he leaves next summer? You gonna still defend it?

[DMAVS41]

To be fair, IT, Ariza, and Ed Davis were all readily available last summer. All could have been had for the cost of Parsons' contract. Bradley likely would have required a S&T or massive overpay, but Dallas had more attractive options than overpaying for Parsons. Cubes got too worked up with beating Morey.

IT and Ed Davis would have been done day 1. Those were easy. Getting one of Ariza or Bradley would have been more difficult, but giving Ariza 4 years 36 million would have probably gotten him.

To act like these guys, and there were others mind you, weren't realistic is a ****ing joke.

And like I've been saying for a long time now...Parsons isn't locked up for years. He can ****ing opt out this coming summer.

I'd get it if it was a 4 year guaranteed deal with no player option. But a 2 year deal? That is just horrid.

[Black and White]

IT and Ed Davis would have been done day 1. Those were easy. Getting one of Ariza or Bradley would have been more difficult, but giving Ariza 4 years 36 million would have probably gotten him.

To act like these guys, and there were others mind you, weren't realistic is a ****ing joke.

Dirk should have just signed a Kobe deal, he gave up all that money for nothing. I feel really bad for him

[noob cake]

Obviously this is not a kidnapping, but you can't corner a weak minded fool like DeAndre and apply pressure to make him sign.

[SwishSquared]

IT and Ed Davis would have been done day 1. Those were easy. Getting one of Ariza or Bradley would have been more difficult, but giving Ariza 4 years 36 million would have probably gotten him.

To act like these guys, and there were others mind you, weren't realistic is a ****ing joke.I think Ariza would have landed where the pay was sufficient and bball situation good enough. That contract likely gets him. Ed Davis and IT easily could have been signed.

Plus, this summer you could have re-signed Aminu + Crowder (if Rondo trade never happened) and been more attractive to the other FAs. That's a core of really nice supporting players. With no Parsons, Dallas would have had a good bench actually.

Also, you may have actually swung DJ with all these guys on multi-year deals. He could have seen the foundation for this team going forward.

[DMAVS41]

Dirk should have just signed a Kobe deal, he gave up all that money for nothing. I feel really bad for him

Well, he should have just taken the "kobe deal" that the Rockets offered him. Could have taken the 4 years 97 million max deal the Rockets offered or whatever the hell it was and won the title.

Probably makes more sense than being in the lottery.

Dirk is loyal to a fault and I'm glad he didn't, but I doubt he gave up all that money with this in mind.

But it was the plan all along....get younger and build around Parsons....:facepalm

[DMAVS41]

I think Ariza would have landed where the pay was sufficient and bball situation good enough. That contract likely gets him. Ed Davis and IT easily could have been signed.

Plus, this summer you could have re-signed Aminu + Crowder (if Rondo trade never happened) and been more attractive to the other FAs. That's a core of really nice supporting players. With no Parsons, Dallas would have had a good bench actually.

Also, you may have actually swung DJ with all these guys on multi-year deals. He could have seen the foundation for this team going forward.

Finally someone gets it.

Absolutely. The Rondo trade never happens if you sign IT. Having IT, Harris, Ellis, Barea....you don't need that trade...like at all. You definitely keep Crowder....Crowder then comes back on great deal because his value wouldn't have nearly been as high.

Also, a sneaky part of this would have been them trading Wright and a first for something. Trading Wright was actually really smart...we just traded for the wrong guy.

But Wright and a first lands you another asset and legit rotation player...Mozgov is a guy for the taking I've talked about before here.

And absolutely...we still would have had the space to go after DJ and bring back Ellis if we wanted to. But if we had landed Moz...we wouldn't need to do that this year. We could have gone after Wes still....or could have given a max offer to Middleton. So many options.

It's just so much better and it was ****ing obvious at the time.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Finally someone gets it.

Absolutely. The Rondo trade never happens if you sign IT. Having IT, Harris, Ellis, Barea....you don't need that trade...like at all. You definitely keep Crowder....Crowder then comes back on great deal because his value wouldn't have nearly been as high.

Also, a sneaky part of this would have been them trading Wright and a first for something. Trading Wright was actually really smart...we just traded for the wrong guy.

But Wright and a first lands you another asset and legit rotation player...Mozgov is a guy for the taking I've talked about before here.

And absolutely...we still would have had the space to go after DJ and bring back Ellis if we wanted to. But if we had landed Moz...we wouldn't need to do that this year. We could have gone after Wes still....or could have given a max offer to Middleton. So many options.

It's just so much better and it was ****ing obvious at the time.

You are really putting Isiah Thomas and Monta Ellis in the backcourt? And you think Ed Davis is a good player?

Finally someone gets it? All I see if Ellis as the best player and a first round exit at best.

:roll:

As for your "moves"... it is all hypotheticals again, as usual.

You want to be proven right based on your own hypothetical. You can't be proven right when something doesn't occur.
But if we are doing hypotheticals:


Having IT doesn't get you Barea after he was bought out or get you Amare after he was bought out. And getting Davis means no Aminu for the vet minumim. Probably no CV as well.

That team at best is treading water with having a lot of long term contracts that are going no where.

The Mavs struk out on free agency this year. But because of Dirk's decline and retirement looming... they need to get a bonafide star.

Ellis as the number 1 option is basically Houston in the Scola days. A mediocre team just on the treadmill to oblivion.

[SwishSquared]

Finally someone gets it.

Absolutely. The Rondo trade never happens if you sign IT. Having IT, Harris, Ellis, Barea....you don't need that trade...like at all. You definitely keep Crowder....Crowder then comes back on great deal because his value wouldn't have nearly been as high.

Also, a sneaky part of this would have been them trading Wright and a first for something. Trading Wright was actually really smart...we just traded for the wrong guy.

But Wright and a first lands you another asset and legit rotation player...Mozgov is a guy for the taking I've talked about before here.

And absolutely...we still would have had the space to go after DJ and bring back Ellis if we wanted to. But if we had landed Moz...we wouldn't need to do that this year. We could have gone after Wes still....or could have given a max offer to Middleton. So many options.

It's just so much better and it was ****ing obvious at the time.Wow I never even considered Mozgov for you guys, but that would have made a ton of sense. He would have been a great fit, actually.

I believed in Ellis being the primary ballhandler with the starters as the smartest thing to continue building (obviously Parsons & Rondo coming to town ruined that). IT off the bench gives you a really good 1-2 punch leading the first and second units on offense. Ariza, Crowder, and Aminu give you legit wing defenders in their primes.

I'm in agreement with you that Cuban messed up so much last summer that it cost you guys a quick reboot. It would have been great if you guys held out just a little bit longer when you needed a PG upgrade and could have landed Dragic instead of pulling trigger on Rondo (since Phoenix obtained Wright anyway). I get why it happened, but that was the wrong guy to acquire.

At this point, just tank for the 2016 draft and hope to use any remaining capspace for any decent bench players going forward or hoard picks if you can find the right deal.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Wow I never even considered Mozgov for you guys, but that would have made a ton of sense. He would have been a great fit, actually.

I believed in Ellis being the primary ballhandler with the starters as the smartest thing to continue building (obviously Parsons & Rondo coming to town ruined that). IT off the bench gives you a really good 1-2 punch leading the first and second units on offense. Ariza, Crowder, and Aminu give you legit wing defenders in their primes.

I'm in agreement with you that Cuban messed up so much last summer that it cost you guys a quick reboot. It would have been great if you guys held out just a little bit longer when you needed a PG upgrade and could have landed Dragic instead of pulling trigger on Rondo (since Phoenix obtained Wright anyway). I get why it happened, but that was the wrong guy to acquire.

At this point, just tank for the 2016 draft and hope to use any remaining capspace for any decent bench players going forward or hoard picks if you can find the right deal.

If the Mavs got Isiah Thomas, it would have basically been similar to Rondo. There was a reason why the Mavs got Jameer (a spot up shooter) and Calderon (a spot up shooter) as point guards to pair with Ellis. Isiah can neither spot up, or shoot. He shoots better than Rondo but it aint saying much.

Putting him with Ellis would have been terrible defensively and offensively.

[DMAVS41]

You are really putting Isiah Thomas and Monta Ellis in the backcourt? And you think Ed Davis is a good player?

Finally someone gets it? All I see if Ellis as the best player and a first round exit at best.

:roll:

As for your "moves"... it is all hypotheticals again, as usual.

You want to be proven right based on your own hypothetical. You can't be proven right when something doesn't occur.
But if we are doing hypotheticals:


Having IT doesn't get you Barea after he was bought out or get you Amare after he was bought out. And getting Davis means no Aminu for the vet minumim. Probably no CV as well.

That team at best is treading water with having a lot of long term contracts that are going no where.

The Mavs struk out on free agency this year. But because of Dirk's decline and retirement looming... they need to get a bonafide star.

Ellis as the number 1 option is basically Houston in the Scola days. A mediocre team just on the treadmill to oblivion.


So your answer is we don't land any players? We can't get anyone if we didn't get Parsons? Of course it's "hypothetical"...but the way you argue is that we wouldn't have gotten anyone. Which is just false.

Come on man. There is no debating IT and Ed Davis. Just none...they could have been locked up day 1 last summer on great deals. That is just a basketball fact.

You wouldn't start IT...you'd bring him off the bench as the 6th man. Do you have a comprehension problem?

And the reason I bring up Ariza is because if we don't sign Parsons...the Rockets don't get Ariza...and Dallas is easily the most likely destination for him as we had the money and the basketball fit.

We still would have had our exception and still could have added minimum guys.


I'm really not sure you grasp any of this. We signed Aminu really late in free agency last year at the vet minimum...we absolutely would have still done that. And absolutely could have still claimed Jameer off waivers if we wanted more guard depth...although that wouldn't have been fully necessary...but still possible.

And then we absolutely would have still looked at guys throughout the year on non guaranteed contracts like Charlie V...and buyout guys as well.

You are looking a team very similar, if not identical to the following:

Harris/Ellis/Ariza/Dirk/Tyson

IT/Crowder/Wright/Jefferson/Charlie

And then, if we were smart, we would have traded Wright and a first rounder for something. I have talked about a guy like Mozgov here is a great fit here before.

And again...we would have had the cap space this summer to do whatever we want. The difference is that we would have had the building blocks for a competitive team regardless...and wouldn't have had to put all our eggs in one basket.

But like I said...you won't ever come off the Parsons trade. You are too all in on it regardless.

Like I asked before...what are you gonna say if Parsons leaves next summer....you still gonna be for it?

[DMAVS41]

If the Mavs got Isiah Thomas, it would have basically been similar to Rondo. There was a reason why the Mavs got Jameer (a spot up shooter) and Calderon (a spot up shooter) as point guards to pair with Ellis. Isiah can neither spot up, or shoot. He shoots better than Rondo but it aint saying much.

Putting him with Ellis would have been terrible defensively and offensively.


HE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE 6TH MAN!

My god dude....you would have started Harris or gotten another guard off waivers (like we did with Jameer) and made IT the 6th man.

Also, we badly needed another playmaker off the dribble and instant offense...IT fits that perfectly. IT is a better defensive player than Calderon as well...and if we can have the kind of success we did with Calderon/Ellis...and Dalembert at center....playing IT/Ellis with Tyson at center in spots absolutely works.

IT can't shoot? He's an excellent 3 point shooter...and he can make tough shots at that. He's a career 36% 3 point shooter and a career 58% TS scorer. You literally have no ****ing clue...jesus

You are so wrong here it's a joke.

You won't even admit that having IT on one of the best contracts in the ****ing NBA would be good for this team.

Just admit you are too dug in to see the light.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

So your answer is we don't land any players? We can't get anyone if we didn't get Parsons? Of course it's "hypothetical"...but the way you argue is that we wouldn't have gotten anyone. Which is just false.

Come on man. There is no debating IT and Ed Davis. Just none...they could have been locked up day 1 last summer on great deals. That is just a basketball fact.

You wouldn't start IT...you'd bring him off the bench as the 6th man. Do you have a comprehension problem?

And the reason I bring up Ariza is because if we don't sign Parsons...the Rockets don't get Ariza...and Dallas is easily the most likely destination for him as we had the money and the basketball fit.

We still would have had our exception and still could have added minimum guys.


I'm really not sure you grasp any of this. We signed Aminu really late in free agency last year at the vet minimum...we absolutely would have still done that. And absolutely could have still claimed Jameer off waivers if we wanted more guard depth...although that wouldn't have been fully necessary...but still possible.

And then we absolutely would have still looked at guys throughout the year on non guaranteed contracts like Charlie V...and buyout guys as well.

You are looking a team very similar, if not identical to the following:

Harris/Ellis/Ariza/Dirk/Tyson

IT/Crowder/Wright/Jefferson/Charlie

And then, if we were smart, we would have traded Wright and a first rounder for something. I have talked about a guy like Mozgov here is a great fit here before.

And again...we would have had the cap space this summer to do whatever we want. The difference is that we would have had the building blocks for a competitive team regardless...and wouldn't have had to put all our eggs in one basket.

But like I said...you won't ever come off the Parsons trade. You are too all in on it regardless.

Like I asked before...what are you gonna say if Parsons leaves next summer....you still gonna be for it?

If Parsons leaves the Mavs will be in the same boat as if he stays. They will still be needing a **star** or they will be forever in mediocitiville.

You are like the guy pining over an old girlfriend because you are lonely right now. You are forgetting that there was absolutely no future with that girlfriend.

The Mavs are looking for someone better to pass the torch. I didn't agree with that stance when Dirk was **good* a la 2012. But in 2015? It makes a lot of sense.

[SwishSquared]

If the Mavs got Isiah Thomas, it would have basically been similar to Rondo. There was a reason why the Mavs got Jameer (a spot up shooter) and Calderon (a spot up shooter) as point guards to pair with Ellis. Isiah can neither spot up, or shoot. He shoots better than Rondo but it aint saying much.

Putting him with Ellis would have been terrible defensively and offensively.IT shot over 40% on C&S 3PA this past season, 37% overall. Shot nearly 46% from one corner, 34% from another, and 37% from above the break, per NBA stats. Shot over 39% when defender was 4+ feet away and 48.1% when defender was 6+ feet away. He can shoot 3s, especially when surrounded by guys who have "gravity" on the floor.

Playing Ellis and IT together is a terrible defensive pairing, but you can do your best to split minutes and avoid that duo as much as possible.

The reason he's been brought up is b/c for the price of Parsons the Mavs could have gotten IT and Ariza. Those guys combined are making roughly the same, or less, as CP next year. Ed Davis and Aminu were signed for the minimum last year, so bringing in those 2 other guys wouldn't affect signing them.

In place of signing Wes this summer, they could have signed DJ, Beverly (had the $$$ to overpay him), and Biyombo. Bring back Ellis (Bird Rights), Aminu (cap space), and re-sign Crowder (Bird Rights), who would have made less if he was never traded to Boston.

Beverly-Ellis-Ariza-Dirk-DJ
IT-Haris-Crowder-Aminu-Biyombo

Pretty deep squad, though a little short on offense, but should be good on D. Other specialists (shooting, slashing, etc.) could have been brought in to supplement that core.

[DMAVS41]

If Parsons leaves the Mavs will be in the same boat as if he stays. They will still be needing a **star** or they will be forever in mediocitiville.

You are like the guy pining over an old girlfriend because you are lonely right now. You are forgetting that there was absolutely no future with that girlfriend.

The Mavs are looking for someone better to pass the torch. I didn't agree with that stance when Dirk was **good* a la 2012. But in 2015? It makes a lot of sense.

Again, you continue to under-rate the value of staying competitive Dirk's remaining years....and you vastly under-rate the kind of teams we could have built my way.

But...why should your opinion hold weight? You just got done saying IT can't shoot. It's just clear you don't know much about these players.

Did you watch any games last year? Did you see the kind of special offense we had when we were healthy and before the Rondo trade? Now imagine that with even better pieces and better defense. We would have been legit.

Also, you still fail to realize that we would have had enough cap for a max offer this summer my way. It doesn't prevent you from going for that guy at all.

The only difference is that you have a desirable team my way...not an empty roster led by an injured and overpaid Parsons.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

HE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE 6TH MAN!

My god dude....you would have started Harris or gotten another guard off waivers (like we did with Jameer) and made IT the 6th man.

Also, we badly needed another playmaker off the dribble and instant offense...IT fits that perfectly. IT is a better defensive player than Calderon as well...and if we can have the kind of success we did with Calderon/Ellis...and Dalembert at center....playing IT/Ellis with Tyson at center in spots absolutely works.

IT can't shoot? He's an excellent 3 point shooter...and he can make tough shots at that. He's a career 36% 3 point shooter and a career 58% TS scorer. You literally have no ****ing clue...jesus

You are so wrong here it's a joke.

You won't even admit that having IT on one of the best contracts in the ****ing NBA would be good for this team.

Just admit you are too dug in to see the light.
Just because he is the 6th man doesn't mean anything. He would have been playing the majority of the minutes. And no Isiaiah cannot shoot. He is a career 42% from the field. Oh, but he shoots 36% from 3. People would be crowding him and daring him to shoot, or putting it on the floor and basically sucking. He is a **volume** scorer who really provides nothing.
And Ellis **cannot** play off the ball. Having Isiah would mean you have two diminutive guards in the bckcourt that neither are floor spacers and neither play off the ball.

And who will be guarding the Klay Thompson's, James Harden's of the league? Ellis or Thomas? Either way... good luck with that.

It would be a disaster.

This aint a videogame.

[DMAVS41]

IT shot over 40% on C&S 3PA this past season, 37% overall. Shot nearly 46% from one corner, 34% from another, and 37% from above the break, per NBA stats. Shot over 39% when defender was 4+ feet away and 48.1% when defender was 6+ feet away. He can shoot 3s, especially when surrounded by guys who have "gravity" on the floor.

Playing Ellis and IT together is a terrible defensive pairing, but you can do your best to split minutes and avoid that duo as much as possible.

The reason he's been brought up is b/c for the price of Parsons the Mavs could have gotten IT and Ariza. Those guys combined are making roughly the same, or less, as CP next year. Ed Davis and Aminu were signed for the minimum last year, so bringing in those 2 other guys wouldn't affect signing them.

In place of signing Wes this summer, they could have signed DJ, Beverly (had the $$$ to overpay him), and Biyombo. Bring back Ellis (Bird Rights), Aminu (cap space), and re-sign Crowder (Bird Rights), who would have made less if he was never traded to Boston.

Beverly-Ellis-Ariza-Dirk-DJ
IT-Haris-Crowder-Aminu-Biyombo

Pretty deep squad, though a little short on offense, but should be good on D. Other specialists (shooting, slashing, etc.) could have been brought in to supplement that core.

Again...this man ****ing gets it.

Love the Beverly addition to that team.

I'd add that you'd have Jefferson for sure on that team and possibly Charlie V as well.

Also, that roster above is not including the Wright and first rounder trade we would have made last season if we went down this road. Again, that could have netted you Mozgov.

Then you don't have to sign DJ...and you can get creative. Give Middleton the max and see if he bites (you get young and add a great piece to help you contend right away) Get Biyombo cheap....etc.

The notion that building a deadly roster is some "hypothetical BS"...is, well, total BS.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

IT shot over 40% on C&S 3PA this past season, 37% overall. Shot nearly 46% from one corner, 34% from another, and 37% from above the break, per NBA stats. Shot over 39% when defender was 4+ feet away and 48.1% when defender was 6+ feet away. He can shoot 3s, especially when surrounded by guys who have "gravity" on the floor.

Playing Ellis and IT together is a terrible defensive pairing, but you can do your best to split minutes and avoid that duo as much as possible.

The reason he's been brought up is b/c for the price of Parsons the Mavs could have gotten IT and Ariza. Those guys combined are making roughly the same, or less, as CP next year. Ed Davis and Aminu were signed for the minimum last year, so bringing in those 2 other guys wouldn't affect signing them.

In place of signing Wes this summer, they could have signed DJ, Beverly (had the $$$ to overpay him), and Biyombo. Bring back Ellis (Bird Rights), Aminu (cap space), and re-sign Crowder (Bird Rights), who would have made less if he was never traded to Boston.

Beverly-Ellis-Ariza-Dirk-DJ
IT-Haris-Crowder-Aminu-Biyombo

Pretty deep squad, though a little short on offense, but should be good on D. Other specialists (shooting, slashing, etc.) could have been brought in to supplement that core.

That is an absolute dream scenario that doesn't work under the cap at all. Seriously. Go back and run he figures again. Half of those guys on the roster would not have been playing for the Mavs.

There was no way the Mavs could have signed Deandre/Crowder/Aminu/Beverly while also having Isiah on the books too....

[DMAVS41]

Just because he is the 6th man doesn't mean anything. He would have been playing the majority of the minutes. And no Isiaiah cannot shoot. He is a career 42% from the field. Oh, but he shoots 36% from 3. People would be crowding him and daring him to shoot, or putting it on the floor and basically sucking. He is a **volume** scorer who really provides nothing.
And Ellis **cannot** play off the ball. Having Isiah would mean you have two diminutive guards in the bckcourt that neither are floor spacers and neither play off the ball.

And who will be guarding the Klay Thompson's, James Harden's of the league? Ellis or Thomas? Either way... good luck with that.

It would be a disaster.

This aint a videogame.

You don't know shit about IT...if you dare him to shoot he will ****ing carve you up.

Ariza and Crowder would be guarding those guys. :confusedshrug:

Ellis plays off the ball better than you give him credit for. And he wouldn't have to play a ton off the ball. Again, IT can ****ing shoot from range....and he's instant offense...a thing we really struggled with.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Again...this man ****ing gets it.

Love the Beverly addition to that team.

I'd add that you'd have Jefferson for sure on that team and possibly Charlie V as well.

Also, that roster above is not including the Wright and first rounder trade we would have made last season if we went down this road. Again, that could have netted you Mozgov.

Then you don't have to sign DJ...and you can get creative. Give Middleton the max and see if he bites (you get young and add a great piece to help you contend right away) Get Biyombo cheap....etc.

The notion that building a deadly roster is some "hypothetical BS"...is, well, total BS.


Yeah, it works if there is no salary cap obligations.... but alas most people live in the world where salary cap is in place and that team is not financially possible.

[DMAVS41]

That is an absolute dream scenario that doesn't work under the cap at all. Seriously. Go back and run he figures again. Half of those guys on the roster would not have been playing for the Mavs.

There was no way the Mavs could have signed Deandre/Crowder/Aminu/Beverly while also having Isiah on the books too....

You are right that DJ wouldn't fit in, but you wouldn't need him.

And it's not far fetched given my scenario if you trade for Mozgov last season. Then pick up his option.

You'd have enough to then max offer Middleton and add a backup big. If you don't get him...you can go after guys like Beverly and Ed Davis and bring back Crowder/Aminu at much cheaper rates than they just went for.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

You don't know shit about IT...if you dare him to shoot he will ****ing carve you up.

Ariza and Crowder would be guarding those guys. :confusedshrug:

Ellis plays off the ball better than you give him credit for. And he wouldn't have to play a ton off the ball. Again, IT can ****ing shoot from range....and he's instant offense...a thing we really struggled with.

If you have Crowder guarding them then you have Ellis or Thomas riding the pine.... unless you have Ariza riding the pine.

Oh, Ariza or Crowder is guarding them you say? Then you will be putting Isiah or Ellis on their SF? Holy Cow. Talk about a mismatch.

Yeah I am sure Isiah will carve teams up. To the tune of 33% from the floor and 16% from 3. As in last year's playoffs.

[DMAVS41]

Yeah, it works if there is no salary cap obligations.... but alas most people live in the world where salary cap is in place and that team is not financially possible.

If you read my post...you'd see my doesn't include DJ.

Also, I think you really are under-rating how much less Aminu and Crowder go for if we don't trade Crowder.

[SwishSquared]

That is an absolute dream scenario that doesn't work under the cap at all. Seriously. Go back and run he figures again. Half of those guys on the roster would not have been playing for the Mavs.

There was no way the Mavs could have signed Deandre/Crowder/Aminu/Beverly while also having Isiah on the books too....IT + Ariza = Parsons by the numbers I'm using. You'd add Crowder's cap hold, which is very small. I'm basically saying you split the money for Wes Matthews (~$13M/year, right?) between Beverly & Biyombo (perfectly reasonable considering combined they're making $9.5M next year). You then use the rest of your cap on DJ + Aminu. Use Bird Rights to re-sign Ellis and Crowder. Barea comes back via Room Exeption. Bring back Jefferson & CV using vet minimum contracts. Give some rotation minutes to the rookie and you're set.

It takes a specific set of steps to execute, but that's totally reasonable. That's how you get that deep of a team. I'm fairly sure the numbers work.

Btw, DMAVS41 proposed Mozgov trade that could have been executed mid-season was fair and would have been great. My scenario totally forgot to include that or even considered trading Wright at the deadline.

Edit: Looks like Aminu doesn't fit my scenario actually for the amount he got from Portland. Big hit the bench, but they'd still have Crowder.

[DMAVS41]

If you have Crowder guarding them then you have Ellis or Thomas riding the pine.... unless you have Ariza riding the pine.

Oh, Ariza or Crowder is guarding them you say? Then you will be putting Isiah or Ellis on their SF? Holy Cow. Talk about a mismatch.

Yeah I am sure Isiah will carve teams up. To the tune of 33% from the floor and 16% from 3. As in last year's playoffs.

So now we are boiling down a career excellent 3 point shooter to 4 games? So once again instead of admitting that IT can shoot...you've decided to go all in on something that is just basically a fact...and you are on the wrong side of it.

Can you see your pattern? You have a guy that has been taking 4.7 3's per game at 36% the last 3 years...and coming off 5.2 3's per game at 37.2%...who is an extremely efficient scorer...shoots 86% from the ft line...and your take is he's barely better than Rondo in terms of shooting?

Come back to reality.

And I have no clue what you are talking about.

Harris/Ellis/Ariza/Dirk/Tyson....that is not a bad defensive lineup. In fact, it's way better than our defense at any point last year...way better.

You understand there is versatility...right?

A team with Harris/Crowder/Ariza/Aminu with Tyson at center can absolutely make the defense work well enough.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

If you read my post...you'd see my doesn't include DJ.

Also, I think you really are under-rating how much less Aminu and Crowder go for if we don't trade Crowder.

May be they sign for less for someone. But most likely they get a Demarre Carroll type deal, or a Corey Brewer type deal. There would have been someone pay to have their services.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

So now we are boiling down a career excellent 3 point shooter to 4 games?

And I have no clue what you are talking about.

Harris/Ellis/Ariza/Dirk/Tyson....that is not a bad defensive lineup. In fact, it's way better than our defense at any point last year...way better.

You understand there is versatility...right?

A team with Harris/Crowder/Ariza/Aminu with Tyson at center can absolutely make the defense work well enough.

Yeah that lineup is pretty terrible defensively. Ariza is the only defender out of that group. Harris cannot guard SGs. And Ellis and Dirk can't guard anyone period. Tyson by the end of the year was so worn down by being the only center.

The second lineup would get killed because they would not be able to score. They could defend. But without a viable option on offense... it would look like the 2011 team during that 2-7 stretch without Dirk. They would have so much trouble to score it would be laughable.

[DMAVS41]

Yeah that lineup is pretty terrible defensively. Ariza is the only defender out of that group. Harris cannot guard SGs. And Ellis and Dirk can't guard anyone period. Tyson by the end of the year was so worn down by being the only center.

The second lineup would get killed because they would not be able to score. They could defend. But without a viable option on offense... it would look like the 2011 team during that 2-7 stretch without Dirk. They would have so much trouble to score it would be laughable.

The 2nd group of players wasn't a lineup...it was just a list of guys that are all plus defenders and they'd all be on the Mavs. Making it work with IT, Ellis, and Dirk is the crux of the team.

Tyson wouldn't have been the only center my way. You either keep Wright or trade him for a center. I already talked about trading him for Mozgov. The Cavs got Moz for two bad first rounders and a trade exception. Wright and a first and 2nd rounder easily gets that deal done.

Smart teams do shit like that. That move completely has transformed the Cavs for last year and this coming year.

I see no reason why you think only other teams can make smart moves like that.

[SwishSquared]

Also, I think you really are under-rating how much less Aminu and Crowder go for if we don't trade Crowder.I don't think anybody expected those guys to get $15.5M/year combined this summer. That trade helped both of them make BANK once they got consistent PT. I thought they'd get like $10M/year combined at most before that deal went down. Their value really shot up, even though I think Crowder could have snagged more in this market.

I just re-ran the #s and it turns out if you guys maxed out DJ in that plan I put up, that'd leave only $3.58M in cap to re-sign a guy like Aminu. Probably can't re-sign him, but that leaves enough room (with including a guy like Powell) to trade for Dudley. He went for a 2nd rounder, so I think he'd def be gettable.

However, if they got Mozgov, like you outlined, WOW they could have had some flexibility.

[DMAVS41]

Lets pause for a second.

Are you still claiming IT can't shoot? Or are you willing to come off that and admit you were wrong?

I need to know this before I wast anymore time.

[DMAVS41]

I don't think anybody expected those guys to get $15.5M/year combined this summer. That trade helped both of them make BANK once they got consistent PT. I thought they'd get like $10M/year combined at most before that deal went down. Their value really shot up, even though I think Crowder could have snagged more in this market.

I just re-ran the #s and it turns out if you guys maxed out DJ in that plan I put up, that'd leave only $3.58M in cap to re-sign a guy like Aminu. Probably can't re-sign him, but that leaves enough room (with including a guy like Powell) to trade for Dudley. He went for a 2nd rounder, so I think he'd def be gettable.

However, if they got Mozgov, like you outlined, WOW they could have had some flexibility.


Yea. I wouldn't want DJ on the team I would have built. I would have wanted Mozgov and a guy like Biyombo....love that fit even more tbh.

I think what is lost here is offering a guy like Middleton his 4 year max to see if the Bucks don't match....they probably do, but on the off chance they don't...this team is absolutely a legit contender....because he answers every single question for this team.

And that way you have the ability to retain Moz the year after...once you pick up his option...and you again have cap room once the cap increases.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

The 2nd group of players wasn't a lineup...it was just a list of guys that are all plus defenders and they'd all be on the Mavs. Making it work with IT, Ellis, and Dirk is the crux of the team.

Tyson wouldn't have been the only center my way. You either keep Wright or trade him for a center. I already talked about trading him for Mozgov. The Cavs got Moz for two bad first rounders and a trade exception. Wright and a first and 2nd rounder easily gets that deal done.

Smart teams do shit like that. That move completely has transformed the Cavs for last year and this coming year.

I see no reason why you think only other teams can make smart moves like that.

Of course not "your way".... nevermind that it wasn't that easy. The Cavs gave up two first round picks to get him. Do you think they would have wanted Wright instead of two first round picks?

The Nuggets are in rebuild mode. Even now every member on their team is up for sale.

The Mavs would not have gotten him for the price that they had.

[DMAVS41]

I wrote this earlier tonight as well and I think it deserves another mention.

I pushed for a sign and trade deal to get the Clippers Hibbert like they wanted. It would have likely allowed the Mavs to dump Felton and open up a little more than 10 million in cap.

Mavs didn't want to help out.

I firmly believe this deal does not fall through if we would have facilitated that 3 way deal.

Mavs roster would have been better and the Clippers wouldn't have been so desperate.

Once again...the allure of the "big fish" down the road cost us.

You get what you ask for...and we had this coming.

[SwishSquared]

May be they sign for less for someone. But most likely they get a Demarre Carroll type deal, or a Corey Brewer type deal. There would have been someone pay to have their services.Well, they both got close to Corey Brewer money after they both got more playing time. FWIW Carroll only makes $500K/year more than Aminu & Crowder combined now.

Crowder played more than 5x the amount of total RS minutes in Boston than he did in Dallas. Aminu's minutes increased by 45% post ASB. If those guys don't get separated mid-season, they'd continue splitting minutes, especially if the Mavs had Ariza in the starting line-up. It's reasonable to expect they don't get paid nearly as much without the increased opportunity to showcase themselves without that Rondo trade.

[DMAVS41]

Of course not "your way".... nevermind that it wasn't that easy. The Cavs gave up two first round picks to get him. Do you think they would have wanted Wright instead of two first round picks?

The Nuggets are in rebuild mode. Even now every member on their team is up for sale.

The Mavs would not have gotten him for the price that they had.


I do because even if they are in rebuild mode...they can then flip Wright for something. I believe the Nuggets gave the Cavs back a 2nd rounder as well.

And if it took two first rounders and Wright...you do that.

Lets not act like the asking price for Mozgov would be a real obstacle to landing him. The truth is we never even thought about something like that. Might have been able to dump Felton on them as well if you offered them that package. Maybe you take back Foye as well as they'd want to shed him as well.

There are so many options out there...lets not act like the Mavs could only trade for Rondo or something....

Why? Because we had more pressing needs....we needed to go get another guard because we used all our cap on Parsons....

[SwishSquared]

I wrote this earlier tonight as well and I think it deserves another mention.

I pushed for a sign and trade deal to get the Clippers Hibbert like they wanted. It would have likely allowed the Mavs to dump Felton and open up a little more than 10 million in cap.

Mavs didn't want to help out.

I firmly believe this deal does not fall through if we would have facilitated that 3 way deal.

Mavs roster would have been better and the Clippers wouldn't have been so desperate.

Once again...the allure of the "big fish" down the road cost us.

You get what you ask for...and we had this coming.This was by far the smartest situation for Indy/Mavs/LAC. Would allow Clippers to still compete, Dallas could have lured some more pieces, and Indy dumps Hibbert to gain Ellis. Pretty sure Clippers would have taken on Felton, too.

Btw, very savvy Mozgov trade scenario. That's one of the better mid-season fake trades I've encountered. Phoenix gave up a future Minny pick to trade for Wright from Boston (will be 2nd rounders, but w/e).

Denver could have collected a first and (eventually) 3 second rounders for Mozgov, following that chain and assuming Phoenix still trades for him (they likely do imo). Denver used one of those firsts to dump McGee and I think Philly would still take him, even for those 3 second rounders.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Lets pause for a second.

Are you still claiming IT can't shoot? Or are you willing to come off that and admit you were wrong?

I need to know this before I wast anymore time.

He shoots decent from 3. He is a career 44% shooter. So to answer your question, he is not a shooter. He is a scorer. That has to have the ball in his hands a lot to be effective.

Same with Ellis only he shoots worse from 3 than Thomas. Ellis shoots 31% from 3... and 45% from the field. He aint a shooter either.

[SwishSquared]

He shoots decent from 3. He is a career 44% shooter. So to answer your question, he is not a shooter. He is a scorer. That has to have the ball in his hands a lot to be effective.

Same with Ellis only he shoots worse from 3 than Thomas. Ellis shoots 31% from 3... and 45% from the field. He aint a shooter either.Did you miss my post regarding his shooting #s from this past year? He shoots very well in catch-and-shoot opportunities from one corner and is decent above the break. Overall shot above average from downtown. Was excellent when open and RC's offense creates open 3s. He would have drilled those looks.

Btw, in Phoenix he made over 43% of his catch-and-shoot 3s. 3PA were 40% of his shots. A quarter of his shots were catch and shoot 3s. Because of this, look at his eFG% or TS% for a clearer picture on his efficiency as a shooter from downtown. He can hit open shots, especially in an offense with guys who have legit floor gravity.

[DMAVS41]

He shoots decent from 3. He is a career 44% shooter. So to answer your question, he is not a shooter. He is a scorer. That has to have the ball in his hands a lot to be effective.

Same with Ellis only he shoots worse from 3 than Thomas. Ellis shoots 31% from 3... and 45% from the field. He aint a shooter either.

Nobody called him a "pure shooter" only or something. We needed a scorer...we didn't need just a shooter. We needed instant offense.

He is a scorer...that also happens to be a s good shooter. And a really good range shooter as well.

So....Isiah can neither spot up, or shoot? That is just silly and absolutely false.

Now, the next question....

Are you saying you wouldn't want IT on the Mavs for 6.5 million a year locked in for the next 3 years?

[Lebron23]

Looks like a WWE and Soap Opera storyline.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Nobody called him a "pure shooter" only or something. We needed a scorer...we didn't need just a shooter. We needed instant offense.

He is a scorer...that also happens to be a s good shooter. And a really good range shooter as well.

So....Isiah can neither spot up, or shoot? That is just silly and absolutely false.

Now, the next question....

Are you saying you wouldn't want IT on the Mavs for 6.5 million a year locked in for the next 3 years?

No. He is a point gaurd that is not a difference maker at all. He is an undersized scorer that can't play defense and isn't a good shooter, or passer. He will never be an all-star, and if he is going to be the Mavs PG going forward, then the Mavs will have to find someone that can really defend at the SG position.... someone that can run offense at either the SG or SF position.... and a true number 1 option at any of the positions.

He is JAG. A high end one, but I wouldn't want him if the Mavs don't have a true star on the team.

[bdreason]

We are in the exact same position now that we would have been 3 days ago if he had just gone back to the Clippers.



Not really. Now every free agent Center on the market has signed with other teams. You don't think Cuban would have gone after guys like Lopez? Biyambo? Koufos? Hibbert? Or how about the Center they let walk, Chandler?

Mavs got screwed, and now they have cap space and nobody to spend it on.

[DMAVS41]

No. He is a point gaurd that is not a difference maker at all. He is an undersized scorer that can't play defense and isn't a good shooter, or passer. He will never be an all-star, and if he is going to be the Mavs PG going forward, then the Mavs will have to find someone that can really defend at the SG position.... someone that can run offense at either the SG or SF position.... and a true number 1 option at any of the positions.

He is JAG. A high end one, but I wouldn't want him if the Mavs don't have a true star on the team.

I'll say again. He'll be a 6th man type guy. He wanted start, nor play the majority of his minutes next to Ellis.

They'd play together at times against 2nd units, and I think it would work better than you obviously, but I'm not acting like they would play 35 minutes a game next to each other a night.

Now, I think you seriously under-value IT here at 6.5 million a year over 3 years. It's one of the best contracts in the NBA going forward.

At least stop saying he isn't a good shooter. There aren't a lot of guys that can shoot 36% from 3 on as many difficult attempts he takes a game off the dribble. I have no idea what you are referencing...unless it's literally the playoffs this year only.

Gotta love it though...you love the Parsons signing at 16 million per year on a 2 year deal, but you hate IT at 6.5 million per year at 4 years.

This is my point with you...you just won't come off the Parsons thing...ever....no matter what happens. And that is the sign of someone just too dug in.

You say I just love to hate on it, but I wrote all week that if he landed Wes and DJ...I'd absolutely admit that the signing was better than I was saying and would have to factor that in.

You? You see the buildings crumbling around you and you still are standing there defending a move that led to the decimation of a team that just won back to back 50 games essentially in a loaded conference despite having deeply flawed rosters.

[DMAVS41]

Not really. Now every free agent Center on the market has signed with other teams. You don't think Cuban would have gone after guys like Lopez? Biyambo? Koufos? Hibbert? Or how about the Center they let walk, Chandler?

Mavs got screwed, and now they have cap space and nobody to spend it on.

I already addressed this. For starters, I'm basing that off Cuban himself admitting we would have tanked if we lost DJ. I think that is a good basis.

Next, God I hope we wouldn't have done that....it would have been a disaster and just pointless.

Also, Chandler left before DJ made his first decision. So that isn't relevant at all.

You should read this article:

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4705524/rebuilding-is-now-mavs-reality-not-a-choice

Plans Y and Z were still on the table when Jordan told the Mavs he was coming, but let's not pretend that the Mavs would have had a snowball's chance in a Texas summer of contending in the West with career backup Kosta Koufos or a shell of Roy Hibbert as their starting center.

True words right there. If we would have done something...DJ saved us from ourselves.