Mavs should have done the sign and trade

[TheCalmInsanity]

DJ for Tyson Chandler. They got rid of Chandler because they had no intentions of helping the Clippers out and it kind of backfired.

As a Clippers fan I don't really know what to say about all this drama, you know how the media always finds the most dramatic spin to all this but here's my take.

I think the Clippers didn't do anything wrong (moratorium period, plus Deandre contacting Doc and Blake and saying he didn't want to sign for the Mavs).

2 people are guilty here, Deandre and his agent.

Agent thought he had so much power, threatening Doc giving him an ultimatum saying if he didn't trade CP3 Deandre wouldn't resign. Then pushing Deandre to agree with the Mavs (debatable whether he wanted to or not, he may have wanted to and then changed his mind and acted like he never wanted to). Why would you as an agent push your player to sign somewhere he doesn't want to sign? Either he owed Mark Cuban a favor or was going to get compensated for the few mils Deandre was leaving on the table for leaving the Clippers (illegal, I know.. but do you really think they don't do under the table stuff in the NBA?)

As for Deandre, how do you let your agent make a decision for you in terms of where you're going to sign? Assuming what Deandre and his family said was true... Why would the agent "pushing" you to go to the Mavs make any difference? Say no and resign with the Clippers and save the Mavs and their fans a headache.

Anyways, I feel for you Mavs fans (the ones that wanted Deandre to sign)... Here's to a good year and no hard feelings. I was cool with Deandre leaving because it's the nature of free agency, and I'm cool with him staying as well. Whether we lost him or not, I wouldn't have been mad. Let's just see if he can actually improve his free throws and become an asset this year rather than a one sided player.

[KelticForce1349]

DJ for Tyson Chandler. They got rid of Chandler because they had no intentions of helping the Clippers out and it kind of backfired.

As a Clippers fan I don't really know what to say about all this drama, you know how the media always finds the most dramatic spin to all this but here's my take.

I think the Clippers didn't do anything wrong (moratorium period, plus Deandre contacting Doc and Blake and saying he didn't want to sign for the Mavs).

2 people are guilty here, Deandre and his agent.

Agent thought he had so much power, threatening Doc giving him an ultimatum saying if he didn't trade CP3 Deandre wouldn't resign. Then pushing Deandre to agree with the Mavs (debatable whether he wanted to or not, he may have wanted to and then changed his mind and acted like he never wanted to). Why would you as an agent push your player to sign somewhere he doesn't want to sign? Either he owed Mark Cuban a favor or was going to get compensated for the few mils Deandre was leaving on the table for leaving the Clippers (illegal, I know.. but do you really think they don't do under the table stuff in the NBA?)

As for Deandre, how do you let your agent make a decision for you in terms of where you're going to sign? Assuming what Deandre and his family said was true... Why would the agent "pushing" you to go to the Mavs make any difference? Say no and resign with the Clippers and save the Mavs and their fans a headache.

Anyways, I feel for you Mavs fans (the ones that wanted Deandre to sign)... Here's to a good year and no hard feelings. I was cool with Deandre leaving because it's the nature of free agency, and I'm cool with him staying as well. Whether we lost him or not, I wouldn't have been mad. Let's just see if he can actually improve his free throws and become an asset this year rather than a one sided player.



This is a very classy post and ISH needs much more of this. :cheers:

[UK2K]

DJ essentially turned down an extra ~$8m to stay in LA.

I don't think he wanted to play in Dallas to begin with. He has the mental capacity of a four year old.

[DMAVS41]

We couldn't have given them Tyson because Tyson left before DJ decided originally.

But we could have done the Pacers trade...and you are dead on imo...I said this earlier.

It's under-rated how much not facilitating Hibbert to Clippers plays a role in this. No way the Clippers are this desperate that way.

Once again Cuban being unwilling to build a team cost us. Hilarious...all to chase KD next summer. Good luck with that now Mark.

[wally_world]

Well with LMA signing with the Spurs, us Suns have no need for Tyson anymore.

[DMAVS41]

Well with LMA signing with the Spurs, us Suns have no need for Tyson anymore.

Yea...that looks pretty awful right now.

Also, with the cap increase to 70...you guys didn't have to trade all those guys away.

Hilarious the fallout of chasing free agents you don't pretty much have in the bag or have good contingency plans as well.

Still can't believe the Suns did that....

[kentatm]

Chandler clearly didnt want to go to the Clippers so I dont know why you think that was an option.

if he was cool going there he would have waited.

since he didnt he obviously wanted to be elsewhere

[kentatm]

Once again Cuban being unwilling to build a team cost us. Hilarious...all to chase KD next summer. Good luck with that now Mark.

not facilitating a S&T w/LA has nothing to do with trying to keep money open for Durant

youve been making things up in your head the last few days.

[DMAVS41]

not facilitating a S&T w/LA has nothing to do with trying to keep money open for Durant

youve been making things up in your head the last few days.

actually it does.

just like spending all the cap on Parsons last summer didn't lead to these decisions?

making that up as well?

not sure what else has to happen for you Pro-Parsons crowd to just take the L....

[kentatm]

actually it does.

just like spending all the cap on Parsons last summer didn't lead to these decisions?

making that up as well?


No it doesnt. Flat out does not. Yes, you are making shit up in your head.

From saying the Chandler deal is horrible, to saying the Mavs were punting on this next season by signing DJ, to making up that the Mavs were trying to make room for Durant by not wanting to do a 3 way S&T w/the Clips and Pacers.

You are completely full of shit making stuff up to suit your own narrative, sniff your own farts b/c nobody cares enough to have an endless debate with you, and may as well be Euroleague w/the way you have been applying logic.

[Fiasco]

I honestly think LAC was prepared to move on until Jordan called Rivers himself on Monday to express his regret. How can you really blame a team that developed an asset to not try and recoup what they'd lost?

The fault lies squarely with DAJ and his agent, as you said. Mavs fans that are pissed off or annoyed are justified and I would never defend the "DeAndrecision" fiasco (hah) that occured yesterday.

Mavs fans, you guys are cool and Dirk deserves better.

[DMAVS41]

No it doesnt. Flat out does not. Yes, you are making shit up in your head.

From saying the Chandler deal is horrible to saying the Mavs were punting on this next season by signing DJ.

You are completely full of shit, sniff your own farts, and may as well be Euroleague w/the way you have been applying logic.

Someone is mad. I don't blame you...terrible day for our franchises history. But you are just making emotional arguments at this point.

If we opened up 10 million in a sign and trade for our cap...and used it...why would we open it up and not use it...it eats into our cap next year. Parsons isn't opting in....and we don't have his bird rights. So bringing back Parsons and a max free agent if we used that 10 million in cap is essentially impossible...even with Dirk opting out to help us again. Same reason we weren't looking to really move Felton in a real way...we take on a guy on multiple years and it eats into what we can do in free agency next year. Always looking to the next year and never building a real team.

LOL

And yes...trading Calderon/Larkin for Tyson for a year rental is a ****ing horrible trade if you have no plans to keep Tyson. The whole reason that makes sense is because you have his bird rights and can go over the cap to bring him back. If the goal is to go after DJ...that trade is straight up retarded....

And they were "punting" on this coming season. Read anyone with a brain after the DJ signing...everyone agreed the Mavs wouldn't contend in this coming season, but would after next summer.

You just don't know this stuff man.

You still think signing Parsons didn't directly lead to all this shit? You gonna be good with paying Parsons 100 million or more on a 5 year deal after this season?

It's just ****ing laughable at this point...this went way worse than I ever even imagined. The fact that you clowns can't admit the Parsons signing was bad at this point is just a joke. It was devastating to this franchise....devastating...

[PejaNowitzki]

Yea...that looks pretty awful right now.

Also, with the cap increase to 70...you guys didn't have to trade all those guys away.

Hilarious the fallout of chasing free agents you don't pretty much have in the bag or have good contingency plans as well.

Still can't believe the Suns did that....



A good defensive center playing for about the same money as Robin Lopez, not sure what is awful about that. Chandler isnt 40, I expect they get three good years about of him with Len taking over sooner or later. Chandler is coming off one of his better seasons, considering the Suns training staff and their history of working with guys like Nash, Hill, Shaq and more, I think its a worthwhile gamble.


The Suns Achilles heel last season was a complete lack of veteran leadership, bringing in a respected veteran into that environment cant hurt.


Meanwhile the Suns dumped a locker room cancer in Marcus Morris, Reggie Bullock who was at the far back of the bench and Granger who didnt play a minute for them. They really didnt lose anything with the trade, TJ Warren impressed enough that he'll be the backup SF, making all 3 of those guys redundant.

[DMAVS41]

A good defensive center playing for about the same money as Robin Lopez, not sure what is awful about that. Chandler isnt 40, I expect they get three good years about of him with Len taking over sooner or later. Chandler is coming off one of his better seasons, considering the Suns training staff and their history of working with guys like Nash, Hill, Shaq and more, I think its a worthwhile gamble.


The Suns Achilles heel last season was a complete lack of veteran leadership, bringing in a respected veteran into that environment cant hurt.


Meanwhile the Suns dumped a locker room cancer in Marcus Morris, Reggie Bullock who was at the far back of the bench and Granger who didnt play a minute for them. They really didnt lose anything with the trade, TJ Warren impressed enough that he'll be the backup SF, making all 3 of those guys redundant.


I don't like that move for a borderline playoff team. Tyson is only getting worse year by year...while the rest of the team is on a different trajectory if things work out well.

Just not a signing that makes a ton of sense without the chance at LMA...

[kentatm]

Like I said, nobody cares enough to debate your bullshit b/c you go on endlessly in an eternal effort to get the last word in.

I've read your garbage the last few weeks and just didnt feel like engaging b/c Ive read you enough to know you'll dig in and throw a wall of text at whoever disagrees with you.

Sorry but you are dead wrong and are full of shit on this.

Saying shit like they never intended to keep tyson is flat wrong. They had an intention to keep Tyson UNTIL they thought they had a great shot at getting DJ. Things change during the year, its all fluid.

and since I dont care to debate a person who pretends that their opinion is fact, I'm done with this thread.

[DMAVS41]

Like I said, nobody cares enough to debate your bullshit b/c you go on endlessly in an eternal effort to get the last word in.

I've read your garbage the last few weeks and just didnt feel like engaging b/c Ive read you enough to know you'll dig in and throw a wall of text at whoever disagrees with you.

Sorry but you are dead wrong and are full of shit on this.

Saying shit like they never intended to keep tyson is flat wrong. They had an intention to keep Tyson UNTIL they thought they had a great shot at getting DJ. Things change during the year, its all fluid.

and since I dont care to debate a person who pretends that their opinion is fact, I'm done with this thread.

From Grantland:

[B][I]It

[Pointguard]

Pretty foul. While I was hesitant to believe it as DJ's game.is predicated on point guards. hooking him up, this seems unpresidented. DJ had a first and second day itinerary and Dallas wasn't in it and then the verbal agreement popped up out of nowhere. Seems like a waisted year for the Mavs.now.

[DMAVS41]

Like I said, nobody cares enough to debate your bullshit b/c you go on endlessly in an eternal effort to get the last word in.

I've read your garbage the last few weeks and just didnt feel like engaging b/c Ive read you enough to know you'll dig in and throw a wall of text at whoever disagrees with you.

Sorry but you are dead wrong and are full of shit on this.

Saying shit like they never intended to keep tyson is flat wrong. They had an intention to keep Tyson UNTIL they thought they had a great shot at getting DJ. Things change during the year, its all fluid.

and since I dont care to debate a person who pretends that their opinion is fact, I'm done with this thread.

You won't engage because you'll lose. Yes, I will respond to you...LOL at wall of text. That is how one communicates here.

My opinion is not fact, but there also facts.

And it's a simple fact that signing Parsons and making those trades were ****ing terrible given our plans in free agency this season.

Those are just basketball facts at this point.

[kentatm]

From Grantland:

It’s the big-picture stuff for which Cuban deserves the L. Yesterday’s dance at DeAndre’s was one of many examples of him banking on a quick fix, only to find his team in utter ruin. We all know the song Cuban has played ever since winning a title. He invests nothing in the draft, signs B-level talent to short-term contracts, loses them in the next free-agency period, rinses, and repeats — all the while claiming his organization is clever because they zig while others zag.

The Mavs winning the title in 2011 is like a large-scale version of a Monta Ellis game-winner in December. It’s great for the time being, but now Monta thinks he’s invincible and nothing can stop him. He goes into heat-check mode. Cuban and Donnie Nelson have been operating in heat-check mode every summer for the past several years, and every time … clank.

The worst part in all of this is Dirk. If the best teammate he ever plays with in the last five years of his career is Ellis, then Cuban has done him a giant disservice — especially after Nowitzki gave up an insane amount of money so the Mavs could rebuild.

Cuban prides himself as a businessman first, and as he probably knows more than anyone, in this business — like most businesses — it’s all about results. The Clippers were petty, yes, but they got it done and now have a solid future ahead. They zigged, while the Mavs zagged.

Spot on.

literally has nothing to do with what I said which is why debating with you sucks and is ultimately pointless.


You won't engage because you'll lose.
My opinion is not fact, but there also facts.

the only thing I'll lose is several minutes of my life that I'll never get back wasting time with your drivel.


And it's a simple fact that signing Parsons and making those trades were ****ing terrible given our plans in free agency this season.

no its an opinion and THAT is a fact.

[DMAVS41]

literally has nothing to do with what I said which is why debating with you sucks and is ultimately pointless.

I was just posting another person saying similar things to me.

Debating with you is pointless because you often attack other people...seen you do it a lot.

Again, just take the L...Parsons was a terrible signing for all the reasons I said.

And yes, if you aren't for sure keeping Tyson...you don't make that trade. You have to actually have a plan and stick to it.

But what is the point of debating with someone that can't admit they were dead wrong about Parsons?

You are useless....

[DMAVS41]

literally has nothing to do with what I said which is why debating with you sucks and is ultimately pointless.



the only thing I'll lose is several minutes of my life that I'll never get back wasting time with your drivel.



no its an opinion and THAT is a fact.


It's as close to a basketball fact as possible. We have decimated our franchise due to that signing....and he can opt out. It's utterly terrible.

We ended up trading Calderon/Larkin/Crowder/Wright and a first rounder and 2nd rounder for a 1 year rental of Tyson and half year rental of Rondo....and Felton on a 2 year deal. With absolutely nothing to show for it other than cap.

Cap we aren't using because it makes no sense now.

And it all started with using all of our cap on Parsons....:facepalm

[kentatm]

I was just posting another person saying similar things to me.

which had nothing do with what we were talking about.


Debating with you is pointless because you often attack other people...seen you do it a lot.

i'm not going to deny that I'll attack bullshit when I see it


Again, just take the L...Parsons was a terrible signing for all the reasons I said.

nope, it wasnt.


And yes, if you aren't for sure keeping Tyson...you don't make that trade. You have to actually have a plan and stick to it.

if you can get a 26 year old fringe AS center over a 32 year old fringe AS center you take that chance every time.


But what is the point of debating with someone that can't admit they were dead wrong about Parsons?

sorry that I dont agree with you?


You are useless....

tries to take high ground in debate by saying person attacks people

proceeds to attack people. :hammerhead:

[kentatm]

It's as close to a basketball fact as possible. We have decimated our franchise due to that signing....and he can opt out. It's utterly terrible.

again, making things up to suit your narrative :lol



We ended up trading Calderon/Larkin/Crowder/Wright and a first rounder and 2nd rounder for a 1 year rental of Tyson and half year rental of Rondo....and Felton on a 2 year deal. With absolutely nothing to show for it other than cap.

Calderon and Larkin were big losses now? Werent you bitching about his contract two years ago? :roll:

The trade for Rondo was a fail. I readily admit that. However, nobody could have known he would have been that big of a tard when he was traded for. They weren't even going to keep Wright or Crowder anyway b/c they were going to go for a big FA this summer.


Cap we aren't using because it makes no sense now.

we dont yet know what direction they will take


And it all started with using all of our cap on Parsons....:facepalm

Never mind that Dirk took way less specifically b/c he wanted Parsons on the team. :lol

[DMAVS41]

which had nothing do with what we were talking about.



i'm not going to deny that I'll attack bullshit when I see it



nope, it wasnt.



if you can get a 26 year old center over a 32 year old center you take that chance every time.



sorry that I dont agree with you?



tries to take high ground in debate by saying person attacks people

proceeds to attack people. :hammerhead:


Hate to go school yard on you, but you started it.

This summer was clearly deandre or bust....and that isn't worth it.

And we are in this position, quite clearly, because of the horrendous Parsons signing that has the chance to **** this franchise for years to come.

It's a lose/lose situation now for us...Parsons leaves and we decimated the franchise for years for nothing....Parsons stays and we have to overpay an over-rated player that likely isn't good enough to lead us anywhere.

You don't ever put yourself into the position the Mavs currently found themselves in. Again, this started with the Parsons signing. If we had filled out the roster differently...we still would have had space to offer DJ the max....only difference is we wouldn't be stuck with complete shit if he didn't come...and he might have not backed out if we had a real ****ing team of players unlike we do now.

[DMAVS41]

again, making things up to suit your narrative :lol



Calderon and Larkin were big losses now? Werent you bitching about his contract two years ago? :roll:

The trade for Rondo was a fail. I readily admit that. However, nobody could have known he would have been that big of a tard when he was traded for. They weren't even going to keep Wright or Crowder anyway b/c they were going to go for a big FA this summer.



we dont yet know what direction they will take



Never mind that Dirk took way less specifically b/c he wanted Parsons on the team. :lol


It's about the plan dude. You can't make that trade if the plan is to go after DJ. I loved the Calderon trade if we were going to keep Tyson and build around him/Dirk....you can't make that trade...see Tyson still has it and fits well...then throw the entire team away for the chance to chase DJ. Again....we had Tyson's bird rights!!!!!!!!

We could have signed Matthews and filled out the roster and then added Tyson...we'd be a 55 win team if healthy with a chance to make a run if we got hot or added a good buyout guy.

And that is even with signing that clown Parsons to a terrible deal.

You keep ignoring the plan.

You can't have it both ways. You can't make the Rondo and Tyson trades and then less than a year later say the plan is to get younger. The Parsons signing doesn't fit with any of this...hence why it's so bad.

Crowder/Wright and the pick being traded was smart. Totally agree...but we never make the Rondo trade if we don't spend it all on Parsons.

You make it sound like I wasn't vehemently against this shit from day 1 last summer.

It was obvious then...it's even more obvious now. That contract was a disaster. You don't mortgage everything we did hoping that Parsons would turn into a superstar and hoping DJ leaves a much better basketball situation.

It's high risk...average reward...which is why it was so stupid.

The kick in the nuts is that it retroactively makes the decision after 11 even worse now that there ended up being 0 to show for it....and another kick in the nuts is that we are in a lose/lose situation with Parsons unless he turns into an all-nba player...and that isn't happening.

[kentatm]

Hate to go school yard on you, but you started it.

:lol dont trying and say "well you attack people so poo on you" and then proceed to do it.

just makes you like a hypocrite brah




This summer was clearly deandre or bust....and that isn't worth it.

if he had not punked out the last second it would have absolutely been worth it.


And we are in this position, quite clearly, because of the horrendous Parsons signing that has the chance to **** this franchise for years to come.

I'm sorry but it was not a horrendous signing. look at the contracts other players just got. His contract isnt a killer no matter what Morey tried to spin.


It's a lose/lose situation now for us...Parsons leaves and we decimated the franchise for years for nothing....Parsons stays and we have to overpay an over-rated player that likely isn't good enough to lead us anywhere.

I doubt he leaves and I doubt he will be a cap killer.


You don't ever put yourself into the position the Mavs currently found themselves in. Again, this started with the Parsons signing. If we had filled out the roster differently...we still would have had space to offer DJ the max....only difference is we wouldn't be stuck with complete shit if he didn't come...and he might have not backed out if we had a real ****ing team of players unlike we do now.

DJ sounds like he would have backed out regardless. I dont think it had anythign to do with the make up of the Mavs and everything to do with him being a little kid that just wanted the Clips to coddle him.

[creepingdeath]

Kent, are you active on the dallas-mavs.com board?

[DMAVS41]

:lol dont trying and say "well you attack people so poo on you" and then proceed to do it.

just makes you like a hypocrite brah





if he had not punked out the last second it would have absolutely been worth it.



I'm sorry but it was not a horrendous signing. look at the contracts other players just got. His contract isnt a killer no matter what Morey tried to spin.



I doubt he leaves and I doubt he will be a cap killer.



DJ sounds like he would have backed out regardless. I dont think it had anythign to do with the make up of the Mavs and everything to do with him being a little kid that just wanted the Clips to coddle him.


The bold is a contradiction.

Also, I'm human...you call me a name and piss me off. I'm coming right back at you.

You doubt he leaves and doubt he hurts the cap? Not sure how that works unless Parsons turns into a all nba type player....again you focus on the amount and not the length.

It was a terrible contract for the length...not just the dollar amount. And we don't have his bird rights this summer...so yes...it could be a problem...it could be a huge problem.

[kentatm]

It's about the plan dude. You can't make that trade if the plan is to go after DJ. I loved the Calderon trade if we were going to keep Tyson and build around him/Dirk....you can't make that trade...see Tyson still has it and fits well...then throw the entire team away for the chance to chase DJ. Again....we had Tyson's bird rights!!!!!!!!

again, I think they would have kept Tyson if DJ hadnt indicated he was willing to go to another team.


We could have signed Matthews and filled out the roster and then added Tyson...we'd be a 55 win team if healthy with a chance to make a run if we got hot or added a good buyout guy.

possibly but its also possible Matthews signed b/c he thought DJ was going to be there for years and unlike DJ he isnt so lame that he'd go back on his word.


And that is even with signing that clown Parsons to a terrible deal.

except it really isnt a bad deal


You keep ignoring the plan.

no, I'm not.


You can't have it both ways. You can't make the Rondo and Tyson trades and then less than a year later say the plan is to get younger. The Parsons signing doesn't fit with any of this...hence why it's so bad.

I didnt say that. I said they saw the chance to get a fringe AS center that was 26, were given indications they had a legit shot, and decided that was better for the team long term. Rondo is 29 and would have fit into making the team younger since he was replacing 33 year old Jameer who replaced 33 year old Calderon.


Crowder/Wright and the pick being traded was smart. Totally agree...but we never make the Rondo trade if we don't spend it all on Parsons.

you dont know that b/c you dont know what they would have done had they not gotten Parsons. You are trying to claim you wanted them to do as fact.


You make it sound like I wasn't vehemently against this shit from day 1 last summer.

It was obvious then...it's even more obvious now. That contract was a disaster.

nope sorry, cant agree with you that it was a disaster.

[kentatm]

Kent, are you active on the dallas-mavs.com board?

I used to be really active on the Dallasbasketball.com boards but once it switched over to being on the awful scout forums I stopped going there w/regularity. I'll still post now and then but its not all that often.

[DMAVS41]

I'm not sure if this is turning into semantics.

To me, and it's just me, the current Mavs situation is the very definition of a disaster.

We traded away Calderon/Larkin/Crowder/Wright...a first and 2nd rounder...for rentals of Tyson/Rondo and were forced to take on Felton for 2 years.

We are going to be in the lottery.

And the guy we signed to bridge the gap just got made the fool in front of the basketball world after he had an extremely disappointing first year....oh, and he's not on the books past this year and we don't have his bird rights.

That is beyond a disaster and it was all put in motion because of the Parsons signing.

[kentatm]

[/B]


The bold is a contradiction.

its not a contradiction.

If he hadn't flaked, it would have been a great move to go get him.

The Mavs could never have known 5 days ago when he agreed to join that he would punk out. If they had known 5 days ago he was this big of a flake they would have never gone after him in the first place. But there was no way to know that so its foolish to get pissed at the Mavs over something that isnt really their fault.


Also, I'm human...you call me a name and piss me off. I'm coming right back at you.

then dont call somebody out for doing something you are going to do 2 minutes after calling them out for it.


You doubt he leaves and doubt he hurts the cap? Not sure how that works unless Parsons turns into a all nba type player....again you focus on the amount and not the length.

Yes, I doubt he leaves and doubt he is going to **** the cap up. At worst he will be part of a S&T.


It was a terrible contract for the length...not just the dollar amount. And we don't have his bird rights this summer...so yes...it could be a problem...it could be a huge problem.

You are projecting what might happen as what will happen.

Sorry but i just dont think Parsons is or will be a team killer.

[DMAVS41]

its not a contradiction.

If he hadn't flaked, it would have been a great move to go get him.

The Mavs could never have known 5 days ago when he agreed to join that he would punk out. If they had known 5 days ago he was this big of a flake they would have never gone after him in the first place. But there was no way to know that so its foolish to get pissed at the Mavs over something that isnt really their fault.



then dont call somebody out for doing something you are going to do 2 minutes after calling them out for it.



Yes, I doubt he leaves and doubt he is going to **** the cap up. At worst he will be part of a S&T.



You are projecting what might happen as what will happen.

Sorry but i just dont think Parsons is or will be a team killer.


Again, you started it...I didn't come in hurling insults...you did. I responded...huge difference.

The bold is a contradiction. You can't say we were close and that it took him backing out late....and then also say he would have backed out regardless. We don't know the reasons he backed out...perhaps it had to do with him realizing we weren't going to be nearly as good as the Clippers.

I'm pissed at the Mavs for putting the franchise in this position.

I was hugely in favor of DJ and Wes coming to town...so you are creating a straw man there. I even said I'd give Parsons/Cuban a ton of credit for pulling this off...I just didn't think it was worth the risk and didn't think DJ was coming. But because I can admit I was wrong...I said I'd gladly do so and look at the Parsons signing in a new light if this plan worked. But it didn't work....and you can't always look at the best case scenarios. Which is what it seems you are doing. The reason I was against Parsons was because of the value I saw in other contracts at the time that came with far less risk.

My issue from the jump has been about the situation the Parsons contract has put us in.

Parsons already killed this team. We went with him and it killed the team. Whether we recover is up for debate. His first 2 years here are now disasters....it's set in stone.

What we do beyond this...I'm completely open to seeing where it goes.

Projecting? That is what all this is...I think you and the Mavs need to a bit more projecting in your analysis....it was my "projecting" that led me to the conclusion that the Parsons signing wasn't worth it.

[kentatm]

I'm not sure if this is turning into semantics.

To me, and it's just me, the current Mavs situation is the very definition of a disaster.

things arent going well right now that is true but that isnt b/c of Parsons. Its 100% b/c Dj ****ed them over like a cowardly child.


We traded away Calderon/Larkin/Crowder/Wright...a first and 2nd rounder...for rentals of Tyson/Rondo and were forced to take on Felton for 2 years.

Niether was intended to be a rental. Nobody could have known that Rondo was such a baby that he would quit on the team. The Mavs absolutely would have kept TY had they known DJ was such a flake. Taking on Felton really isnt that big a deal. His teammates loved him and he is an expiring contract this year. That isnt a problem at all.


We are going to be in the lottery.

Possibly. Gotta see what they do. Even if they end up there, why should you care since you thought they weren't competing this year? You'd rather not try and get a young guy in the draft if that's the route they go?


And the guy we signed to bridge the gap just got made the fool in front of the basketball world after he had an extremely disappointing first year....oh, and he's not on the books past this year and we don't have his bird rights.

He was ballin before he got hurt the final time. Funny you completely ignore that he was rounding into form once he finally started to adjust being on a new team. He was wrecked by injuries last year. That is something you cant predict.


That is beyond a disaster and it was all put in motion because of the Parsons signing.

:lol

thats like saying this was all put into motion b/c they picked up Monta instead of tanking a few years ago.

[D-Rose]

Nope. Tyson agreed with PHX right before Mavs even had their meeting with DAJ.

[DMAVS41]

things arent going well right now that is true but that isnt b/c of Parsons. Its 100% b/c Dj ****ed them over like a cowardly child.



Niether was intended to be a rental. Nobody could have known that Rondo was such a baby that he would quit on the team. The Mavs absolutely would have kept TY had they known DJ was such a flake. Taking on Felton really isnt that big a deal. His teammates loved him and he is an expiring contract this year. That isnt a problem at all.



Possibly. Gotta see what they do. Even if they end up there, why should you care since you thought they weren't competing this year? You'd rather not try and get a young guy in the draft if that's the route they go?



He was ballin before he got hurt the final time. Funny you completely ignore that he was rounding into form once he finally started to adjust being on a new team. He was wrecked by injuries last year. That is something you cant predict.



:lol

thats like saying this was all put into motion b/c they picked up Monta instead of tanking a few years ago.

Just no. Blaming DJ for this is a complete joke.

Nothing changes if DJ just doesn't come here. You continue to miss the point about risk/reward.

In the end...nothing happened other than DJ telling us he wasn't coming here. In fact, I think there is a good argument to be made for saying DJ saved us from ourselves by making stupid moves like trading for Hibbert or signing guys to fill out the roster.

Probably doesn't matter either way as Cuban admitted tanking was the plan though.

It would have been stupid to try and patch together a roster without him and make the playoffs anyway. I totally agree we should be bad and try to keep our pick.

But man...that is total BS blaming DJ for this. We put all our eggs in his basket from day 1 and it was either feast or famine.

You don't see the connection to all this with Parsons...I think that connection is clear...crystal clear.

Like I said...it would have been one thing to lock him up for 4 guaranteed years to give the team some stability and the contract would age very well. But a 2+1 in this environment? It's just a bad deal.

[kentatm]

Again, you started it...I didn't come in hurling insults...you did. I responded...huge difference.

:lol there really isnt.

you cant cry about somebody talking trash and then turn around and talk trash w/o being a complete hypocrite.


The bold is a contradiction. You can't say we were close and that it took him backing out late....and then also say he would have backed out regardless. We don't know the reasons he backed out...perhaps it had to do with him realizing we weren't going to be nearly as good as the Clippers.

it isnt a contradiction, sorry.


I'm pissed at the Mavs for putting the franchise in this position.

:cry:


I was hugely in favor of DJ and Wes coming to town...so you are creating a straw man there. I even said I'd give Parsons/Cuban a ton of credit for pulling this off...I just didn't think it was worth the risk and didn't think DJ was coming. But because I can admit I was wrong...I said I'd gladly do so and look at the Parsons signing in a new light if this plan worked. But it didn't work....and you can't always look at the best case scenarios. Which is what it seems you are doing. The reason I was against Parsons was because of the value I saw in other contracts at the time that came with far less risk.

You cant tell somebody to not look at best case scenarios when all you do is lok at worst case.


My issue from the jump has been about the situation the Parsons contract has put us in.

his contract hasnt hurt the team. Sorry but that simply isnt true.


Parsons already killed this team. We went with him and it killed the team. Whether we recover is up for debate. His first 2 years here are now disasters....it's set in stone.

He really didn't. If you want to call a move a team killer it was going for Rondo which they probably wouldnt have even done had they known Dragic was available.


What we do beyond this...I'm completely open to seeing where it goes.

you sure dont sound that way.


Projecting? That is what all this is...I think you and the Mavs need to a bit more projecting in your analysis....it was my "projecting" that led me to the conclusion that the Parsons signing wasn't worth it.

Well we are never going to agree.

The fact that you blame him for other players being flakes is a jokes. Its not his fault Rondo is a shit head. Its not his fault DJ is a flaky liar. Its not his fault the front office decided to go after DJ instead of keeping Tyson.

But go ahead and continue to irrationally blame everything on one player.

[kentatm]

Just no. Blaming DJ for this is a complete joke.

Nothing changes if DJ just doesn't come here. You continue to miss the point about risk/reward.

In the end...nothing happened other than DJ telling us he wasn't coming here.

It would have been stupid to try and patch together a roster without him and make the playoffs anyway. I totally agree we should be bad and try to keep our pick.

But man...that is total BS blaming DJ for this. We put all our eggs in his basket from day 1 and it was either feast or famine.

You don't see the connection to all this with Parsons...I think that connection is clear...crystal clear.

Like I said...it would have been one thing to lock him up for 4 guaranteed years to give the team some stability and the contract would age very well. But a 2+1 in this environment? It's just a bad deal.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

You think blaming DJ, who told the Mavs he was coming, who is the reason they let TY walk, who waited for 5 days until a few hours before he was to sign to change his mind is stupid?

If Dallas had known he wasnt all in THEY WOULD HAVE KEPT TYSON and made different roster moves this offseason.

Why is this so difficult for you to accept?


But I dont know why I even got dragged into this shit b/c like I said, you refuse to quit until you have the last word and just regurgitate the same drivel over and over. peace out homie.

[DMAVS41]

:lol there really isnt.

you cant cry about somebody talking trash and then turn around and talk trash w/o being a complete hypocrite.



it isnt a contradiction, sorry.



:cry:



You cant tell somebody to not look at best case scenarios when all you do is lok at worst case.



his contract hasnt hurt the team. Sorry but that simply isnt true.



He really didn't. If you want to call a move a team killer it was going for Rondo which they probably wouldnt have even done had they known Dragic was available.



you sure dont sound that way.



Well we are never going to agree.

The fact that you blame him for other players being flakes is a jokes. Its not his fault Rondo is a shit head. Its not his fault DJ is a flaky liar. Its not his fault the front office decided to go after DJ instead of keeping Tyson.

But go ahead and continue to irrationally blame everything on one player.

Responding to an attack is different than hurling the first attack.

I'll try to clean this up. I don't blame "Parsons the player"...I blame the "Parsons signing"

You make it sound like I blame Chandler Parsons for this. Not at all...I blame our franchise for getting cute and signing a player to a weird deal that didn't make much sense.

The fact that you still support it shows me that you will never change your mind.

I know I'll be able to change my mind...and have even said as such when this was all going down.

You are looking at the worst case scenario and still saying it was a good signing.

[DMAVS41]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

You think blaming DJ, who told the Mavs he was coming, who is the reason they let TY walk, who waited for 5 days until a few hours before he was to sign to change his mind is stupid?

If Dallas had known he wasnt all in THEY WOULD HAVE KEPT TYSON and made different roster moves this offseason.

Why is this so difficult for you to accept?


But I dont know why I even got dragged into this shit b/c like I said, you refuse to quit until you have the last word and just regurgitate the same drivel over and over. peace out homie.

Tyson agreed to go to the Suns before DJ made his decision.

This is my exact point. You are ****ing revising history that happened days ago.

Why are you lying right now? Do you think nobody is going to call you out on it?

You realize there is risk in chasing free agents...right?

[kentatm]

Responding to an attack is different than hurling the first attack.

not if you are trying to claim high ground brah


I'll try to clean this up. I don't blame "Parsons the player"...I blame the "Parsons signing"

You make it sound like I blame Chandler Parsons for this. Not at all...I blame our franchise for getting cute and signing a player to a weird deal that didn't make much sense.

w/the way you shit on him it sure sounds like you have a problem with him beyond his contract.


The fact that you still support it shows me that you will never change your mind.

b/c his signing isnt the problem. Its the two players they went for afterwards that are.


I know I'll be able to change my mind...and have even said as such when this was all going down.

You are looking at the worst case scenario and still saying it was a good signing.

B/c his signing isnt what caused this. Two guys who were selfish for differing reasons are.

[kentatm]

Tyson agreed to go to the Suns before DJ made his decision.

This is my exact point. You are ****ing revising history that happened days ago.

Why are you lying right now? Do you think nobody is going to call you out on it?

You realize there is risk in chasing free agents...right?

He agreed with the Suns before the DJ agreement b/c the Mavs told him to go ahead and get his. It was reported multiple times on the radio here in Dallas they told him they were cool with him not waiting around b/c they thought they were going to get DJ.

So no, I'm not revising history or lying.

[DMAVS41]

not if you are trying to claim high ground brah



w/the way you shit on him it sure sounds like you have a problem with him beyond his contract.



b/c his signing isnt the problem. Its the two players they went for afterwards that are.



B/c his signing isnt what caused this. Two guys who were selfish for differing reasons are.

Really disagree. And I've explained why. This stuff is way more connected than you are letting on.

By signing Parsons it puts your franchise in a specific position in which certain moves become necessary.

[DMAVS41]

He agreed with the Suns before the DJ agreement b/c the Mavs told him to go ahead and get his. It was reported multiple times on the radio here in Dallas they told him they were cool with him not waiting around b/c they thought they were going to get DJ.

So no, I'm not revising history or lying.

Dude. We never had DJ in the bag...even Cuban said it was touch and go.

DJ was torn the entire time...there was never any indication we had him in the bag.

Absolutely revisionist history....:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Once we decided to pursue DJ...we lost Tyson unless Tyson breaks his word with the Suns....that is a fact.

[PejaNowitzki]

I don't like that move for a borderline playoff team. Tyson is only getting worse year by year...while the rest of the team is on a different trajectory if things work out well.

Just not a signing that makes a ton of sense without the chance at LMA...


Yet he's coming off one of the better seasons of his career. If he gives them two good seasons as a starter, and then a solid backup after, he is worth it.

The Suns are a better team with Chandler than without. Even if they miss the playoffs, at some point you need some veteran leadership in your locker room to keep things on an even keel.

[kentatm]

Really disagree. And I've explained why. This stuff is way more connected than you are letting on.

By signing Parsons it puts your franchise in a specific position in which certain moves become necessary.

Again, we have no idea what direction they would have gone had they not gotten Parsons.

You cannot say they traded for Rondo b/c they signed Parsons. They traded for Rondo b/c they decided it was worth the risk and b/c Jameer wasn't good enough.

[kentatm]

Dude. We never had DJ in the bag...even Cuban said it was touch and go.

DJ was torn the entire time...there was never any indication we had him in the bag.

Absolutely revisionist history....:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Once we decided to pursue DJ...we lost Tyson unless Tyson breaks his word with the Suns....that is a fact.


Sorry but I'm just going by reports from people who are actually around the team vs what you pull from your posterior.

They told him to go ahead and get his b/c they liked their odds w/DJ. You dont have to like it but thats how it is.


and PS, I know you'll just haaaaave to get the last word in but you may as well not waste your time b/c now I am 100% done with this thread.

peace.

[DMAVS41]

Again, we have no idea what direction they would have gone had they not gotten Parsons.

You cannot say they traded for Rondo b/c they signed Parsons. They traded for Rondo b/c they decided it was worth the risk and b/c Jameer wasn't good enough.

Well of course, but if you don't use all your cap on Parsons....signing a point guard and sf makes sense.

You act like it's some stretch. If we hadn't gotten Parsons...we would have gotten Ariza. There were really no other scenarios that made sense given the Wizards really not pushing hard.

We would have had a starting sg, sf, pf, and center.

Pretty sure pg was our next stop.


But yes, of course, if we still had the same exact team at guard we could have made the Rondo trade. I've said that before and I actually supported the Rondo trade given the reasons you and I agree on.

[Fallen Angel]

Mavericks fans fighting? You'd never see this with Clutch City.

[DMAVS41]

Sorry but I'm just going by reports from people who are actually around the team vs what you pull from your posterior.

They told him to go ahead and get his b/c they liked their odds w/DJ. You dont have to like it but thats how it is.


and PS, I know you'll just haaaaave to get the last word in but you may as well not waste your time b/c now I am 100% done with this thread.

peace.

I'm going by reports around the team as well. It was never in the bag...and certainly was not in the bag as of early July 1 when we lost Chandler. Cuban admitted it was touch and go before his verbal agreement on the ticket...i was listening live when it happened. He told Sturm exactly that.

Furthermore, all the reports out of LA said the same thing. DJ is torn. You have pulled this "in the bag" BS from your own ass hoping people don't see your blatant lying.

Liking our chances is completely different. I'm sure we did like our chances.

Just like I'm also sure the pursuit of DJ prevented us from having Tyson as our backup plan.

The fact that you aren't acknowledging the risk of going after DJ here is just silly. Everyone around the team that knows anything...all agree this summer was DJ or bust after the first few hours of free agency.

You pretending otherwise is just once again more evidence that you will never adjust your positions and try to bend reality to your narrative.

You come off looking weak here. You come in hurling insults...claim I'm a waste of time...spend 2 pages arguing....then run away when you are caught absolutely making shit up.

Tim MacMahon...a guy that has done an excellent job throughout this whole thing and has been piped in. I guess he's nuts as well...just read his article and he ended it with this:

The Dallas decision-makers knew this was a DeAndre-or-doom summer. The latter is here, and it's not a lot of fun.

But yea...they had him in the bag the whole time.

:cheers:

[zizozain]

lol @ DMAVS41 aka NBASTATMAN aka gyno and his brothers

do you have a fcuking life?


anyway i this thread

kentatm: 1

DMAVS41: 0

[zizozain]

Mavericks fans fighting? You'd never see this with Clutch City.


DMAVS41 not a Mavericks fan. he's a sad case

[PejaNowitzki]

I don't like that move for a borderline playoff team. Tyson is only getting worse year by year...while the rest of the team is on a different trajectory if things work out well.

Just not a signing that makes a ton of sense without the chance at LMA...


Yet he's coming off one of the better seasons of his career. If he gives them two good seasons as a starter, and then a solid backup after, he is worth it.

The Suns are a better team with Chandler than without. Even if they miss the playoffs, at some point you need some veteran leadership in your locker room to keep things on an even keel.

[DMAVS41]

Yet he's coming off one of the better seasons of his career. If he gives them two good seasons as a starter, and then a solid backup after, he is worth it.

The Suns are a better team with Chandler than without. Even if they miss the playoffs, at some point you need some veteran leadership in your locker room to keep things on an even keel.

I'd go down a different route.

Don't see a real upside here without being "live" in a chase for LMA.

But I admit I'm lower on Tyson than most when it comes to how much I'd spend of real cap space on him. The reason I wanted him in Dallas was because we had his bird rights and could go over the cap with him.

Just feels like a situation similar to the Knicks for the Suns...just won't have enough and you guys will be looking to get rid of him in a couple years.

But we'll see....it might work...never know.