Summer League Games thread

[magictricked]

Minnesota Timberwolves vs. Los Angeles Lakers 8:30 pm ET NBA TV & TWC

Randle will play today then sit out game 2

[magictricked]

Watched the game as I could

Randle looked good.

Clarkson made it look too easy I think he bulked up some.

Russell looked good too timing with the other players was off but that's to be expected with only a few days of practice with a group you've never played with

Upshaw is a monster the guy is huge I don't know if he'll get a lot of playing time but if you need somebody to knock a few guys around he's your man.

Black looked good also

[daily]

Highlights from game 2

Russell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCOPQL36SZQ

Clarkson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB7och6hTzY

[magictricked]

Back on the floor tonight against the Knicks and the Zinger. Randle will be playing

5:30 pacific same TV as before

[Bosnian Sajo]

So is that it? Only 3 summer league games? Funny how I was able to watch any summer league game I wanted from Orlando to Utah, but as soon as the Lakers start to play I'm hella busy and have no time...whos idea was it to put all of their games over the weekend?

[gts]

So is that it? Only 3 summer league games? Funny how I was able to watch any summer league game I wanted from Orlando to Utah, but as soon as the Lakers start to play I'm hella busy and have no time...whos idea was it to put all of their games over the weekend?still at least two more to go i think

[bladefd]

I haven't watched these 3 games, but I saw highlights, been reading articles on it & reading the general boards. Seems like Russell is not playing too well.

Not sure why anyone was expecting him to instantly become a star first game in like he was in college. I have been telling people for years that college basketball means nothing once you enter the NBA. In the NBA, you go up against the best of the best of NCAA & global competition. Even the scrub Kwame Brown would average 25-11-3 with 2.5 blocks in NCAA if he were to go play in NCAA in 2008.

It will take time. PGs usually take the longest to develop anyways. Maybe next summer is when Russell starts to play great with 1 year of NBA experience under his belt. Until then, we gotta give him benefit of the doubt.

Too many idiots on the general boards insinuate that Lakers made a mistake by taking Russell over Okafor. Okafor is a center - he will develop very quickly offensively as he doesn't have to be the one to run the offense. Plus he is dealing with a position with VERY little depth around the NBA -- might be 2 great centers around the NBA (Cousins, Marc Gasol), maybe 5 other good centers.. That's it! PG is deepest it has ever been and is definitely the most important position in basketball.

[magictricked]

^ Mike Trudell has a good article on it all. I agree Bladefd not sure what people expected this early


http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/150713_summerknicks?cid=tw

Damn I got neg bombed by some fool. Went from 1400+ to -80 something in a few minutes this morning :roll:

[magictricked]

Round 1 of the tournament starts today Lakers vs Dallas 5:30

[gts]

^ Mike Trudell has a good article on it all. I agree Bladefd not sure what people expected this early


http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/150713_summerknicks?cid=tw

Damn I got neg bombed by some fool. Went from 1400+ to -80 something in a few minutes this morning :roll:

Lakers family will get you back up

[magic chiongson]

i'm not really concerned about about russell right now, most of his mistakes are that of a rookie trying to adjust. i'm more worried about randle's effort(or lack of) on defense and boxing out.


Lakers family will get you back up
sure will :cheers:

[gts]

i'm not really concerned about about russell right now, most of his mistakes are that of a rookie trying to adjust. i'm more worried about randle's effort(or lack of) on defense and boxing out.


sure will :cheers:

I'm not worried about either to be honest.. Randle's been out for a year away from the game his timing is going to be off, he did get to the rim the shot's just didn't drop but that will come back. His defense he looked more like he was avoiding contact which I'm sure was something the trainers wanted him to do. have to remember he was only cleared for 5 on 5 practice a few days before the summer league program began.

Russell made plenty of mistakes but his teammates didn't help by shooting piss poor, obviously being a passing pg requires a certain level of chemistry you're not going to build up in 3.5 days of practice with strangers...

quite a few of those missed shots become assists when the shots drop and a lot of those turnovers disappear when his teammates catch those passes. Like I said Russell made a lot of mistakes but a lot of those will smooth out when he's practicing everyday with guys who have a better feel/knowledge for the game..

guarantee you Kobe isn't cutting to the rim and not looking for the ball and guys like black and randle will be looking for it from now on :lol


I liked his defense he's fiesty and stays with it and he's not afraid to get in the paint and fight for rebounds

Also liked the coaches decided to go with trying to play a system instead of the iso ball most the teams play in SL. ISO ball would probably get you more wins vs a system that requires practice time to really work but I think the guys now have a better grasp of what will be expected of them come training camp

really glad they came out of it healthy

[Lakers91]

I haven't watched these 3 games, but I saw highlights, been reading articles on it & reading the general boards. Seems like Russell is not playing too well.

Not sure why anyone was expecting him to instantly become a star first game in like he was in college. I have been telling people for years that college basketball means nothing once you enter the NBA. In the NBA, you go up against the best of the best of NCAA & global competition. Even the scrub Kwame Brown would average 25-11-3 with 2.5 blocks in NCAA if he were to go play in NCAA in 2008.

It will take time. PGs usually take the longest to develop anyways. Maybe next summer is when Russell starts to play great with 1 year of NBA experience under his belt. Until then, we gotta give him benefit of the doubt.

Too many idiots on the general boards insinuate that Lakers made a mistake by taking Russell over Okafor. Okafor is a center - he will develop very quickly offensively as he doesn't have to be the one to run the offense. Plus he is dealing with a position with VERY little depth around the NBA -- might be 2 great centers around the NBA (Cousins, Marc Gasol), maybe 5 other good centers.. That's it! PG is deepest it has ever been and is definitely the most important position in basketball.

First summer league I've watched in awhile kind of had a reason to but didn't really miss much :oldlol:. He's playing more off ball from when I watched, Clarkson was more the Point and Russell more the shooting guard/off ball, for some part he was passing passes that his teammates weren't ready for or didn't think to go to, Russell seemed to be passing to the spot he wanted them to go to and his teammates didn't realise, which is a chemistry and experience thing, with good chemistry and decent ball IQ players it'll be good to watch, some turnovers looked bad but some you could see what he was trying to do.

To be honest it may be stating the obvious but whoever was picked was going to need time, Randle should be included minus 14 minutes he's basically a rookie.

Though I must admit I'm surprised by the third paragraph given I've heard ad nauseum in years gone by that "big men take longer to develop" when really it's just person/skillset dependent imo .To say Okafor doesn't have to run the offense not in a traditional way no he's not running and passing but as of right now he's the main offensive threat or is going to be designed to be, given Philadelphia at this stage minus Canaan don't really have a point and he can't carry the load anyway as a floor general though not bad he's not a floor general, maybe Ish Smith again not bad but not a great point guard decent; Noel who's limited offensively or at least in contrast to Okafor, Wroten if he starts at shooting guard who struggles shooting and probably Convington that's similar, so while I can agree with some. Not intended to sound aggressive maybe I misinterpreted but I disagree if you literally meant Okafor will take less time because he won't have to do or learn as much, right away he will have more to do and learn because he's going to be depended on more.

They are different players with different skillsets and will take time, Okafor for his defense and Russell largely because he isn't going to rely on athleticism like other point guards, it'll be more craft and skill (like Nash had to really or somewhat Curry) he's not slow or a bad athlete but he doesn't have the speed nor athleticism to rely on that alone which to my knowledge was well documented it was his shooting and passing not his athleticism that were highly rated. It'll be an adjustment as it is for most rookies, nothing really to go labeling bust or superstar over yet, give it a year or two then maybe.

[gts]

^ agree with the big men take longer to develop than others myth in fact if you look at the PER for player during his first few years (one of the only legit uses for PER) you'll see traditional style big men that play the paint reach their peak PER faster than PGs do

[bladefd]

Though I must admit I'm surprised by the third paragraph given I've heard ad nauseum in years gone by that "big men take longer to develop" when really it's just person/skillset dependent imo .To say Okafor doesn't have to run the offense not in a traditional way no he's not running and passing but as of right now he's the main offensive threat or is going to be designed to be, given Philadelphia at this stage minus Canaan don't really have a point and he can't carry the load anyway as a floor general though not bad he's not a floor general, maybe Ish Smith again not bad but not a great point guard decent; Noel who's limited offensively or at least in contrast to Okafor, Wroten if he starts at shooting guard who struggles shooting and probably Convington that's similar, so while I can agree with some. Not intended to sound aggressive maybe I misinterpreted but I disagree if you literally meant Okafor will take less time because he won't have to do or learn as much, right away he will have more to do and learn because he's going to be depended on more.

All I meant is a center isn't usually the one to run the system like a PG. PG is like the quarterback in football - the most important position to set everybody else up.

Due to that, centers can focus on their own skillset more so than a PG as the PG is the floor general. In order for PG to succeed, he must make those around him better. His success is judged by the success of those around him - "Help me help you". The exception are the scoring PGs like Allen Iverson and Derrick Rose. Once in a while, you also get centers like Hakeem Olajuwon and Duncan that don't need great PGs because they can set everyone else up or they can be like Shaq & be godlike even against triple-teams :roll: - this is very rare though.

Of course, a quarterback will not succeed without a wide-receiver or tight-end to spread the field. A PG will need a sharpshooter or 2 and someone with halfway decent paint skills; you can get away with it to some degree though. VERY rarely will a team succeed without a very good quarterback or very good PG though.

On impact alone, I will say a PG ranks #1 on average out of the 5 positions. Center is #2. The other 3 positions blend & mash together depending on strengths and skillsets. Traditionally, the center is concerned with rim protection in the paint protecting the highest efficiency region (with the highest percentage shot) while PG is the floor general & leader of the squad.

[Lakers91]

^ agree with the big men take longer to develop than others myth in fact if you look at the PER for player during his first few years (one of the only legit uses for PER) you'll see traditional style big men that play the paint reach their peak PER faster than PGs do

Found an article recently well I recently found it, it was from a year or two ago, to memory (total memory I don't have the link saved), shooting guards on average (it's not exactly the most accurate thing given circumstances differentiate but as a whole) based on PER and I think PPG as well, the shooting guards developed the fastest, and center's were around the middle, with I think Point guards and power forwards taking the longest. Though I've heard so much that big men take longer, I think it's more simply certain high picked bigmen that games will take longer...take longer :oldlol:, Porzingis as a power forward (center when he packs on muscle) for example will take a while to develop he has good shooting touch but needs to develop both strength and post moves he'll take a little bit, Okafor especially offensively as you say won't as much but you rarely see someone with Okafor's post moves...though he does try to be "too cute" pardon the expression occasionally, he's got great footwork but instead of finishing strong he does try to be cute with his finishing though it often works I would rather him finish stronger but he's only a few games in and will probably get even stronger so I guess that's too harsh.

[Lakers91]

All I meant is a center isn't usually the one to run the system like a PG. PG is like the quarterback in football - the most important position to set everybody else up.

Due to that, centers can focus on their own skillset more so than a PG as the PG is the floor general. In order for PG to succeed, he must make those around him better. His success is judged by the success of those around him - "Help me help you". The exception are the scoring PGs like Allen Iverson and Derrick Rose. Once in a while, you also get centers like Hakeem Olajuwon and Duncan that don't need great PGs because they can set everyone else up or they can be like Shaq & be godlike even against triple-teams :roll: - this is very rare though.

Of course, a quarterback will not succeed without a wide-receiver or tight-end to spread the field. A PG will need a sharpshooter or 2 and someone with halfway decent paint skills; you can get away with it to some degree though. VERY rarely will a team succeed without a very good quarterback or very good PG though.

On impact alone, I will say a PG ranks #1 on average out of the 5 positions. Center is #2. The other 3 positions blend & mash together depending on strengths and skillsets. Traditionally, the center is concerned with rim protection in the paint protecting the highest efficiency region (with the highest percentage shot) while PG is the floor general & leader of the squad.

Going to need to break this up into two.

Though I don't watch NFL as much and football to me is soccer or AFL :oldlol: , but I prefer the term floor generals, because point guards these days especially when you have point forwards like LeBron James or shooting guards, point guards isn't the only position to set people up it's simply your best wing player but that's me being pedantic.

Floor generals like that really seem to be an anomaly these days in my opinion, though I think D Russell will be a good floor general in terms of passing and scoring blend, I don't think there are many true floor generals left anymore, Paul is probably the main one that comes to mind (and a lot of his brilliant passing comes from the threat he has offensively scoring in his own right). It's the age of the scoring point guard, though Curry and probably Parker were the first in awhile to lead teams scoring to championships and Parker did have Duncan playing great too, but a true floor general is rare, of the top point guards I think of Paul as a true floor general "make teammates better", Westbrook does if he's not too focused on shooting, really most point guards today it's not because of them being floor generals or passers they are simply scorers which takes pressure of others that makes them good point guards rather than actual floor generals. Rose isn't really he's good at passing but he's score first when healthy and it gives him space to pass if he hasn't got tunnel vision, Paul's a floor general the last true floor general/PG assuming no one thinks the old Rondo's coming back, Westbrook isn't really in terms of making others better (but he got a lot better), Curry is another that kind of is but is still a scorer first but averaged 9 odd last year and close to 8 this year, Lillard is more scoring, Irving is more scoring, Lowry is more scoring though he's a bit of a mix, probably Wall despite averaging 17 is probably the next in terms of floor general ability in the Paul mold but has a bit of a way to go.

[Lakers91]

All I meant is a center isn't usually the one to run the system like a PG. PG is like the quarterback in football - the most important position to set everybody else up.

Due to that, centers can focus on their own skillset more so than a PG as the PG is the floor general. In order for PG to succeed, he must make those around him better. His success is judged by the success of those around him - "Help me help you". The exception are the scoring PGs like Allen Iverson and Derrick Rose. Once in a while, you also get centers like Hakeem Olajuwon and Duncan that don't need great PGs because they can set everyone else up or they can be like Shaq & be godlike even against triple-teams :roll: - this is very rare though.

Of course, a quarterback will not succeed without a wide-receiver or tight-end to spread the field. A PG will need a sharpshooter or 2 and someone with halfway decent paint skills; you can get away with it to some degree though. VERY rarely will a team succeed without a very good quarterback or very good PG though.

On impact alone, I will say a PG ranks #1 on average out of the 5 positions. Center is #2. The other 3 positions blend & mash together depending on strengths and skillsets. Traditionally, the center is concerned with rim protection in the paint protecting the highest efficiency region (with the highest percentage shot) while PG is the floor general & leader of the squad.

In terms of center's setting others up that's what Okafor will need to do for Philly, he's drawing double and triple teams in summer league it's what he'll have to do. He needs to be that type of center, they don't have shooters or a second scorer/wing scorer.

On that paragraph I've typed enough I'll keep it short, you need a wing ballhandler whether that's a point guard; SG or SF, you just need someone to run the offense position wise it doesn't matter as much, you can have a marksmen Point guard if you have another wing player that handles the ball (though most teams now have scoring points unless your LeBron James at SF).

Honestly in terms of meshing every position meshes these days, as far as I'm concerned, center skillsets play power forward (Lee is more of a center than PF but is 6"9), any wing player can run an offense these days it doesn't matter as much as long as you have someone at one of those positions that can. Lou Williams is kind of a mesh example, he's a shooting guard that guards point guards on defense due to size (no idea why I brought him up but he came to mind), as long as my team has a wing player able to run an offense it phases me little PG; SG or SF, as long as the point guard is reliable in his skillset (Whether that's as a pass first PG, shoot PG, 3 point marksmen PG, that's the Lakers problem the fact they've had so many lackluster point guards especially after Fisher got older I can't say old he was always old :oldlol: ). It's just all blended today, while there's still positions it doesn't matter as much it's about versatility now and whoever is running the offense to me it matters little if they're a point guard or shooting guard if they do the job that's all that matters, especially when you have a great shooting guard like Miami or Los Angeles had in Wade and Byrant or a ball dominant wing player a floor general isn't as necessary (though Chris Paul would have been welcome...:rant :banghead: ). I see Russell eventually being more the shooting guard that runs the offense, on defense I'd rather him guarding shooting guards than the athletic point guards like Westbrook because he's not quick enough...then again no one is, but I don't know who then guards the point guard.

[daily]

Too much to respond to on my phone. :lol Well said everyone

[bladefd]

Too much to respond to on my phone. :lol Well said everyone

Same. Read Lakers91s well thought out post yesterday. Will reply later when I am on my pc :p

[Lakers91]

Too much to respond to on my phone. :lol Well said everyone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g5Hz17C4is :oldlol:

[Lakers91]

Same. Read Lakers91s well thought out post yesterday. Will reply later when I am on my pc :p

I can't shut up I do apologise for that I do try to cut down and then just go well...I've done too much anyway might as well keep going :lol I do enjoy the discussions albeit and I attempt not to sound too arrogant (I don't exactly have any emotional reason for opinions simple my thought process which if it's proven wrong for the better then that's a good thing :rockon: )

[Lakers91]

Same. Read Lakers91s well thought out post yesterday. Will reply later when I am on my pc :p

I haven't paid attention to NFL for years, maybe when I move to America I will but until then for someone that observes how will the Steelers go this year, I still kind of go for them even though I pay little attention.