Larry Bird(the player) is probably the most underrated of all-time

[TonyMontana]

At least when it comes to these websites. In the eyes of casual he is held in very high recognition because he's known as "that white guy".

In my eyes Bird is a guy that has a legitimate case as being the GOAT of all-time. People even said this in the 80s, but somehow a number of reasons including anti-white propaganda have left that as a "troll comment".

http://celebriot.com/celeb1/22/21694/larry-bird.jpg

1)Larry Bird carried a bunch of borderline D1 hicks to the National Championship game. First we look at his college years. He literally was playing on a team of a bunch of random hicks. He played center for the team and he took them to the Championship game. This is one of the most amazing things about Bird in my eyes.

2.Larry Bird made his 20 win Celtics team a 60 win team his very first year. Similar "all-time greats like Jordan, LeBron... they are in the lottery their first few years. Bird didn't just make his team good as a rookie(50 win range), but GREAT(60 win range).

3. Larry Bird dominated the toughest era of NBA History, the early and mid 80s. Super teams were abundant. Bird won 3 straight MVPs. He led his team to multiple championships while competing against ALL TIME GREAT teams such as the Lakers, the Sixers, the Pistons. Larry Bird was also 24-11 against Michael Jordan. Jordan literally couldn't win anything until Bird retired and the watered down era of the 90s expansion teams took over the league.

4. During their playing days it was a universal fact that Bird > MAgic. Sometime after Bird retired the consensus seemed to be that Magic was univerally better. This is false and for a number of reasons. a) Birds career was derailed by injuries. b) Magic was constantly in the news with his personality, and of course the AIDS. He managed to stay "relevant" longer. This works for guys like Barkley too whose actual playing ability has somehow increased just because he is still relevant.

5. He could dominate in any way. Not ball dominant. Bird would be an outstanding fit on any team. He was a elite at posting up, he was elite at playing off ball. He was by far the best passing non PG of all-time. He was an elite rebounder. And his smarts didnt leave him a liability on defense. His hands were very quick. Because of his versatility you could literally put him on any team and he'd be GREAT. He also wasn't a 7 footer so this means he didn't have to rely on a teammate to get him the ball. 7 footers are often times the most valuable players in this sport, but they also have their weaknesses when it comes to impact.

[Marchesk]

The rise of Jordan and the Bulls three peating twice kind of overshadowed how great Bird was in the 80s. I remember when people were saying he was the best ever. But that didn't last long.

It's also that MJ became the best player at the right time to take advantage of the global media and advertising.

[Round Mound]

Bird is The Greatest SF Ever IMO:

[SuperPippen]

Very true. Has a legitimate case as the most skilled player of all time. Saw passing angles on the court that few players could even fathom, one of the deadliest sharpshooters in NBA history, and although not a fancy dribbler, was a reliable ball-handler.

[Fallen Angel]

His longevity is what lowers him on my All-Time list. When you compare his career stats and achievements to players of today like Kobe Bryant and Lebron James they don't go in Bird's favor.

He does however have an argument for them most skilled. He probably is #2 on that list, Michael Jordan's elite athleticism pushes him over.

[masonanddixon]

What always amazes me is that in the 80s everyone agreed that he was better than Magic but now in reverse racist-white self loathing Obama 1984 2015 society people have decided Magic was superior.

[pastis]

why is he underrated. basically every ranking places him top 5-7. and this is a good, objective ranking.

he was gifted with a very very very talented team, with other all time greats on his roster for a long stretch.
Bird had some awful playoffs and finals series, where McHale was better.
so no, i think he clearly isnt underrated

[masonanddixon]

why is he underrated. basically every ranking places him top 5-7. and this is a good, objective ranking.

he was gifted with a very very very talented team, with other all time greats on his roster for a long stretch.
Bird had some awful playoffs and finals series, where McHale was better.
so no, i think he clearly isnt underrated

Every all time great has had a loaded roster with the exception of Dirk.

Bird and Magic revived the sport and for that that will be forever immortalized, but yes I agree neither is underrated and neither is immune from criticism.

[Fallen Angel]

Larry Bird, the player, is fairly rated.

Larry Bird, the career, is overrated.

Larry Bird's career stats and achievements are better than that of Kobe Bryant (http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/b/larry_bird_vs_kobe_bryant.htm) or Lebron James (http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/b/larry_bird_vs_lebron_james.htm)? I personally don't think so.

[fragokota]

His longevity is what lowers him on my All-Time list. When you compare his career stats and achievements to players of today like Kobe Bryant and Lebron James they don't go in Bird's favor.

He does however have an argument for them most skilled. He probably is #2 on that list, Michael Jordan's elite athleticism pushes him over.

What does athleticism has to do with skills?

[masonanddixon]

Larry Bird, the player, is fairly rated.

Larry Bird, the career, is overrated.

Larry Bird's career stats and achievements are better than that of Kobe Bryant (http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/b/larry_bird_vs_kobe_bryant.htm) or Lebron James (http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/b/larry_bird_vs_lebron_james.htm)? I personally don't think so.

Bird is obviously better than Lebron but I don't think he is better than Kobe.

[StephHamann]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUYhOFOFLBY

*boner

[Fallen Angel]

What does athleticism has to do with skills?
Jordan can finish at the rim better than most players because of his athleticism. He can dunk over shot blockers use his leaping ability to block the shots of bigger players (Shaq).

So yes, athleticism correlates with skills.

[pastis]

Every all time great has had a loaded roster with the exception of Dirk.

Bird and Magic revived the sport and for that that will be forever immortalized, but yes I agree neither is underrated and neither is immune from criticism.


:applause: :applause:

[Fallen Angel]

Bird is obviously better than Lebron but I don't think he is better than Kobe.
No he isn't better than Lebron. Maybe skill-wise, but as far as career achievements and longevity, Lebron has him beat.

James has played one less season than Larry Bird and has 1 more MVP, 3 more All-Defensive selections, 1 more scoring title, 1 more All-NBA selection, 3,000 more points and 600 more assists. Lebron is good to go another 5 to 7 more seasons so that margin is gonna grow even larger.

Bird may have went against Magic Johnson in what people consider to be the toughest era, but he never had a stretch of being the unanimous best player on the planet the way Lebron has had the past 6 or 7 years.

[masonanddixon]

No he isn't better than Lebron. Maybe skill-wise, but as far as career achievements and longevity, Lebron has him beat.

James has played one less season than Larry Bird and has 1 more MVP, 3 more All-Defensive selections, 1 more scoring title, 1 more All-NBA selection, 3,000 more points and 600 more assists. Lebron is good to go another 5 to 7 more seasons so that margin is gonna grow even larger.

Bird may have went against Magic Johnson in what people consider to be the toughest era, but he never had a stretch of being the unanimous best player on the planet the way Lebron has had the past 6 or 7 years.

lebron has the dubious distinction of being likely the worst 4th quarter player of all time, has lost 4 of 6 Finals series playing in the East at a time when the East is as its all time lowest, is a below average defensive player, and only won two rings because she jumped shit in his PRIME to join two established superstars. As such, he's nowhere near as close to Bird all-time.

If we were to live in a world in which statistics dictated reality, Shareef Abdul Rahim would be an all time great as well.

[Fallen Angel]

I had a feeling you were an idiot main forumer, knew I shouldn't have started a conversation with you.

Do other people on ISH get tired of the same repetitive shit on this site? Alpha, Beta, 2/6, colluding. That shit is cringeworthy and stupid.

RealGM will forever have this site beat on Player Comparisons and everyone with a brain knows that.

[masonanddixon]

I had a feeling you were an idiot main forumer, knew I shouldn't have started a conversation with you.

Do other people on ISH get tired of the same repetitive shit on this site? Alpha, Beta, 2/6, colluding. That shit is cringeworthy and stupid.

RealGM will forever have this site beat on Player Comparisons and everyone with a brain knows that.

What part of my post do you disagree with?

[masonanddixon]

The guy is a racist ****.

No I'm not. I just don't think lebron is that great.

[Lebron23]

No I'm not. I just don't think lebron is that great.


4x NBA MVP, 2x Finals MVP, and 2x Olympic Gold Medalist. They were able to win 2 games in the NBA Finals without Kevin Love, and Kyrie Irving.

[masonanddixon]

4x NBA MVP, 2x Finals MVP, and 2x Olympic Gold Medalist. They were able to win 2 games in the NBA Finals without Kevin Love, and Kyrie Irving.

Yeah I never said he sucked. I just don't think he's as good as Bird. I don't think he's even as good as Dirk or Garnett and it's debatable as to whether he's even better than a guy like Wade.

[Fallen Angel]

What part of my post do you disagree with?
Don't come to me with that generic ISH response. Take that shit elsewhere.

[masonanddixon]

Don't come to me with that generic ISH response. Take that shit elsewhere.

Did you notice that your response was simply an ad hominen attack? You didn't substantiate a single thing.

[brownmamba00]

His off ball game was so sexy to watch just him create space for the spot up Jay, playing the passing lanes and his court vision.

Also dude was a bad ass trash talker.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Yeah I never said he sucked. I just don't think he's as good as Bird. I don't think he's even as good as Dirk or Garnett and it's debatable as to whether he's even better than a guy like Wade.

It really isn't.

On topic, I have Bird over LeBron.

[sejoon101]

As the biggest Bird stan, he gets a lot of love from hardcore basketball fans, so I'm fine with that... its the casuals that are annoying.

The most criminally underrated player is Dirk. I can't stress how insanely underrated he is.

[nzahir]

I got bird in top 5 so not underrated for me.
MJ
KAJ
Bird/Magic(i think i go bird)
Shaq

then I got
Lebron, Kobe, Duncan, Hakeem, Wilt.
Bill, oscar, moses right after them

[Fallen Angel]

Can people really back up why they believe Larry Bird is greater than Kobe Bryant? Fun fact: Kobe has played 6 more seasons, won 2 more championships, made 5 more All-Star teams, has him easily beat in both All-NBA and All-Defensive team selections, 2 more scoring titles, 11,000 more points, and 500 more assists.

His longevity and career stats just doesn't compare. It's hard to imagine All-Time greats getting surpassed but Bird has had multiple players that have played after him who've surpassed him on my All-Time list.

It happens, greats get passed up. Just gotta swallow that pride and accept the fact that there are guys better than your favorite player.

[nzahir]

Can people really back up why they believe Larry Bird is greater than Kobe Bryant? Fun fact: Kobe has played 6 more seasons, won 2 more championships, made 5 more All-Star teams, has him easily beat in both All-NBA and All-Defensive team selections, 2 more scoring titles, 11,000 more points, and 500 more assists.

His longevity and career stats just doesn't compare. It's hard to imagine All-Time greats getting surpassed but Bird has had multiple players that have played after him who've surpassed him on my All-Time list.

It happens, greats get passed up. Just gotta swallow that pride and accept the fact that there are guys better than your favorite player.
Yes I can.
Who is more efficient in terms of fg%, ft %, and 3 pt %? Bird
Who is a better rebounder and passer-Bird by a far margin
If I want 1 guy to have the ball to win me the game Ill take bird because hes the more efficient/better scorer and he can pass as well.

Kobe does have defense on bird, but Ill take bird still

[Fallen Angel]

Yes I can.
Who is more efficient in terms of fg%, ft %, and 3 pt %? Bird
Who is a better rebounder and passer-Bird by a far margin
If I want 1 guy to have the ball to win me the game Ill take bird because hes the more efficient/better scorer and he can pass as well.

Kobe does have defense on bird, but Ill take bird still
Efficiency and rebounding (btw, one is a 6'6" SG and the other is a 6'9" SF/PF) doesn't make up for the large disparity between the two in career stats and achievements. Both are pretty equal passers, big men get more props for passing than smaller players.

Both players are clutch, you're beating a dead horse trying to compare what player is more clutch.

Larry Bird has 13 seasons in his resume with 10 of those being actually competitive compared to Kobe who is coming toward his 20th season with 15 of them already being competitive. Bird's career in those 13 years just doesn't stack to what Kobe has accomplished.

Also, bringing up skillset is a pretty irrelevant when compiling an All-Time list. I could name 10 centers in the history of the league with a better skillset than Bill Russell, yet that doesn't mean he isn't a Top 5 All-Time great.

[Rocketswin2013]

Also, bringing up skillset is a pretty irrelevant when compiling an All-Time list. I could name 10 centers in the history of the league with a better skillset than Bill Russell, yet that doesn't mean he isn't a Top 5 All-Time great.
This, so much. People always list a bunch of shit a guy can do and then just say, "easily a better player, not even close". Just idiocy. I bet I could make 2014 Noah sound better than prime Dwight if I just spewed every little ability he has, and said "Dwight Coward has no post game and can't shoot ft's, Noah by far."

[Dro]

This, so much. People always list a bunch of shit a guy can do and then just say, "easily a better player, not even close". Just idiocy. I bet I could make 2014 Noah sound better than prime Dwight if I just spewed every little ability he has, and said "Dwight Coward has no post game and can't shoot ft's, Noah by far."
And yet you guys are talking about nothing but "stats and achievements". Well here's a stat since we're talking about how long somebody played. Bird's career avg. minutes per game is around 38 mpg. Guys played a sh*t ton of minutes back then. Thats when you people say they "carried" their teams, they mean that sh*t.

Yeah Lebron plays a ton of minutes, but look how Durant broke down. Look how Lebron is starting to break down. Wade. Those guys simply played way more minutes, way more meaningful playoff games than a lot of these dudes today. You guys talk stats, stats, stats, but leave out stats like this.

Add to the fact that guys play longer in this era anyway due to advances in technology and medicine, this is obvious, everyone knows this stuff. I can't remember a time where there where still this many players over 40 or close to 40 playing in the league at one time, and still being effective on top of that.

All the greats broke down, Dr. J, Magic, Bird, Dominique, Walton, on and on. The league is easier now. Its softer, less physical, can't touch anybody. Its just an easier league. Lebron has been the best player for several years but its not just because he's SO great. Its a product of the era.

He just doesn't have that much comp. Just like he doesn't have much comp in the East. I'm not taking anything away from him, I think he's better than Kobe. But every day, I rethink that maybe I underrated Kobe. Because whenever I think of who I'd want in a game 7? I'd take Kobe 10 out of 10 times. But still, I think Lebron is better:confusedshrug:

I think its because Lebron is better all around. But, he just lacks that killer scoring that Kobe can go on. To me, basketball at the end of the day is about scoring. Outscore your opponent. I'd want Kobe.

But I don't think either of them are better than Bird. Bird has more skill than both of them. Bird is capable of going on scoring tears, he's capable of playing a Lebron game and he doesn't have as much athleticsm as either of them. I'm sorry, he's better. I saw most of Bird's career. He's a better play than them.

[Rocketswin2013]

And yet you guys are talking about nothing but "stats and achievements". Well here's a stat since we're talking about how long somebody played. Bird's career avg. minutes per game is around 38 mpg. Guys played a sh*t ton of minutes back then. Thats when you people say they "carried" their teams, they mean that sh*t.

Yeah Lebron plays a ton of minutes, but look how Durant broke down. Look how Lebron is starting to break down. Wade. Those guys simply played way more minutes, way more meaningful playoff games than a lot of these dudes today. You
guys talk stats, stats, stats, but leave out stats like this.
Stats are the best indicator of individual impact until proven(not just said) otherwise on some sort of specific example(Bill Russell, Dave Cowens, Shane Battier,etc) I like, stats the most because they don't lie about guys finishing ability(% at the rim), clutch performance, rebounding ability(%), and scoring ability(efficiency considered). They don't have agendas.

They are what players go out and produce in the time they spend trying to win games. If we don't want to use stats, then these discussions shouldn't happen. People should just root for teams, franchises and decide they like watching certain players more instead of trying to objectively rank players over another. Because without stats in these discussions all there is, is conjecture and favoring players over another. Nothing more.

Also, what is this about comparing LeBron's durability to Wade and Durant? LeBron has just had his first season of playing less than 70 games(sans lockout), and played 69. Every other year except this past one be played 76+ games. LeBron is an absolute ironman. He's never had an injury as severe as Durant's. He's also played 20+ playoff games each the last 5 seasons. All really good playoff runs, too. So I don't know where this "meaningful playoff games" stuff is coming from.


To add on to that, LeBron has averaged 39.3 MPG in his career for 12 straight seasons. Keep I mind he used to play like, basically, a 6'8 260 Russell Westbrook olin his pre-Heat days. Absolutely relentless on getting to the, rim and drawing fouls. Only in his second year with the Heat did he focus on going to the rim under more control and not trying dunk everything/draw contact.


Add to the fact that guys play longer in this era anyway due to advances in technology and medicine, this is obvious, everyone knows this stuff. I can't remember a time where there where still this many players over 40 or close to 40 playing in the league at one time, and still being effective on top of that. Durable players will play and be healthy no matter what. Injury-prone players won't.


All the greats broke down, Dr. J, Magic, Bird, Dominique, Walton, on and on. The league is easier now. Its softer, less physical, can't touch anybody. Its just an easier league. Lebron has been the best player for several years but its not just because he's SO great. Its a product of the era.
Yeah, okay. Forget the fact Bird had no ability to draw fouls on a consistent level, and that drawing fouls is taxing in any era(See Dwyane Wade and Allen Iverson) and not doing so can keep your career going (See Kareem). Bird was just injury-prone, Magic contracted HIV, Ervings regression was normal, so was Wilkins'. Walton? 7-footer with foot problems. Oh, that's NEVER happened in this era. Right.

He just doesn't have that much comp. Just like he doesn't have much comp in the East. I'm not taking anything away from him, I think he's better than Kobe. But every day, I rethink that maybe I underrated Kobe. Because whenever I think of who I'd want in a game 7? I'd take Kobe 10 out of 10 times. But still, I think Lebron is better:confusedshrug:
Not much to say about these things. Not much proof brought forth. I absolutely disagree about the lack of competition. LeBron James is a lot better in elimination games, btw.


think its because Lebron is better all around. But, he just lacks that killer scoring that Kobe can on. To me, basketball at the end of the day is about scoring. Outscore your opponent. I'd want Kobe.
Well, I just disagree about taking Kobe over LeBron. He simply isn't/wasn't as good.


But I don't think either of them are better than Bird. Bird has more skill than both of them. Bird is capable of going on scoring tears, he's capable of playing a Lebron game and he doesn't have as much athleticsm as either of them. I'm sorry, he's better. I saw most of Bird's career. He's a better play than them.
Again, I disagree. I don't think Bird has ever played on LeBron's level in both the RS and PS and wasn't as consistent as LeBron. Bird and Kobe is a closer comparison. Bird can positively impact the game in more ways, but Kobe was a more dominant scorer and had better longevity/playoff runs. I haven't put much thought into the comparison but right now it's a bit of a toss-up. LeBron, to me, is outright better than both, though.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He's not the GOAT, but definitely underrated by people who put too much emphasis on athleticism. Bird's knowledge of the game was so ****ing great that he would literally be 2 or 3 steps ahead of his defender in-terms of finishing. You can't teach that. It's like Jordan's last second pivot or off-hand switch to get a basket over the defender. These guys knew all the angles, seemingly playing chess vs checkers.

I have Bird with Magic around 5 or 6, although my rankings change frequently and I prefer tiers over numerical lists.

[imnew09]

No hes not. People have him higher than Kobe when his achievements arent as good as Kobes

[red1]

He is universally ranked top 5 and is the current GOAT at his position. I don't think he is underrated at all

[miles berg]

Top 5 all time player, best SF ever

He isn't underrated but he is often forgotten but the younger fans of today.

[WillC]

I could justify Bird as the 2nd or 3rd greatest player of all-time. I struggle to rank him ahead of Jordan. But he's conceivably greater than the legendary centers (Kareem, Wilt, Russell), depending on your criteria.

In terms of all around talent, he's in the top three or four all-time, along with Jordan, LeBron and Oscar Robertson. But Bird won more than the Big O.

[diamenz]

lebron has the dubious distinction of being likely the worst 4th quarter player of all time, has lost 4 of 6 Finals series playing in the East at a time when the East is as its all time lowest, is a below average defensive player, and only won two rings because she jumped shit in his PRIME to join two established superstars. As such, he's nowhere near as close to Bird all-time.

If we were to live in a world in which statistics dictated reality, Shareef Abdul Rahim would be an all time great as well.

this. say no more.

to me, it's still bird vs. jordan. love both!

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

At least when it comes to these websites. In the eyes of casual he is held in very high recognition because he's known as "that white guy".

In my eyes Bird is a guy that has a legitimate case as being the GOAT of all-time. People even said this in the 80s, but somehow a number of reasons including anti-white propaganda have left that as a "troll comment".

http://celebriot.com/celeb1/22/21694/larry-bird.jpg

1)Larry Bird carried a bunch of borderline D1 hicks to the National Championship game. First we look at his college years. He literally was playing on a team of a bunch of random hicks. He played center for the team and he took them to the Championship game. This is one of the most amazing things about Bird in my eyes.

2.Larry Bird made his 20 win Celtics team a 60 win team his very first year. Similar "all-time greats like Jordan, LeBron... they are in the lottery their first few years. Bird didn't just make his team good as a rookie(50 win range), but GREAT(60 win range).

3. Larry Bird dominated the toughest era of NBA History, the early and mid 80s. Super teams were abundant. Bird won 3 straight MVPs. He led his team to multiple championships while competing against ALL TIME GREAT teams such as the Lakers, the Sixers, the Pistons. Larry Bird was also 24-11 against Michael Jordan. Jordan literally couldn't win anything until Bird retired and the watered down era of the 90s expansion teams took over the league.

4. During their playing days it was a universal fact that Bird > MAgic. Sometime after Bird retired the consensus seemed to be that Magic was univerally better. This is false and for a number of reasons. a) Birds career was derailed by injuries. b) Magic was constantly in the news with his personality, and of course the AIDS. He managed to stay "relevant" longer. This works for guys like Barkley too whose actual playing ability has somehow increased just because he is still relevant.

5. He could dominate in any way. Not ball dominant. Bird would be an outstanding fit on any team. He was a elite at posting up, he was elite at playing off ball. He was by far the best passing non PG of all-time. He was an elite rebounder. And his smarts didnt leave him a liability on defense. His hands were very quick. Because of his versatility you could literally put him on any team and he'd be GREAT. He also wasn't a 7 footer so this means he didn't have to rely on a teammate to get him the ball. 7 footers are often times the most valuable players in this sport, but they also have their weaknesses when it comes to impact.
:applause: :applause: :applause:

Its so weird how nikkas have Magic 6 or 7 spots ahead of Bird on alltime lists these days. Magic wouldnt even go into the NBA if he wasnt playing with LA/Kareem. He always had stacked teams

[FKAri]

I just find Magic is overrated so Bird gets underrated in comparison.

[ArbitraryWater]

good post but its really the opposite for Barkley... his TNT persona and this being what alot of young people see of him makes them really undervalue how much of a beast he was.


And yet you guys are talking about nothing but "stats and achievements". Well here's a stat since we're talking about how long somebody played. Bird's career avg. minutes per game is around 38 mpg. Guys played a sh*t ton of minutes back then. Thats when you people say they "carried" their teams, they mean that sh*t.

Yeah Lebron plays a ton of minutes, but look how Durant broke down. Look how Lebron is starting to break down. Wade. Those guys simply played way more minutes, way more meaningful playoff games than a lot of these dudes today. You guys talk stats, stats, stats, but leave out stats like this.

Add to the fact that guys play longer in this era anyway due to advances in technology and medicine, this is obvious, everyone knows this stuff. I can't remember a time where there where still this many players over 40 or close to 40 playing in the league at one time, and still being effective on top of that.

All the greats broke down, Dr. J, Magic, Bird, Dominique, Walton, on and on. The league is easier now. Its softer, less physical, can't touch anybody. Its just an easier league. Lebron has been the best player for several years but its not just because he's SO great. Its a product of the era.

He just doesn't have that much comp. Just like he doesn't have much comp in the East. I'm not taking anything away from him, I think he's better than Kobe. But every day, I rethink that maybe I underrated Kobe. Because whenever I think of who I'd want in a game 7? I'd take Kobe 10 out of 10 times. But still, I think Lebron is better:confusedshrug:

I think its because Lebron is better all around. But, he just lacks that killer scoring that Kobe can go on. To me, basketball at the end of the day is about scoring. Outscore your opponent. I'd want Kobe.

But I don't think either of them are better than Bird. Bird has more skill than both of them. Bird is capable of going on scoring tears, he's capable of playing a Lebron game and he doesn't have as much athleticsm as either of them. I'm sorry, he's better. I saw most of Bird's career. He's a better play than them.

lol.. people, superstars, are injuring themselves everywhere.. hard to look at how many players have gotten hurt these last few years. Careers to generally take longer, in any sport though.

Also, given how we know they compare in game 7's, how THE **** does one take Kobe over LeBron for that scenario? Lol... seriously

[Dresta]

Can people really back up why they believe Larry Bird is greater than Kobe Bryant? Fun fact: Kobe has played 6 more seasons, won 2 more championships, made 5 more All-Star teams, has him easily beat in both All-NBA and All-Defensive team selections, 2 more scoring titles, 11,000 more points, and 500 more assists.

His longevity and career stats just doesn't compare. It's hard to imagine All-Time greats getting surpassed but Bird has had multiple players that have played after him who've surpassed him on my All-Time list.

It happens, greats get passed up. Just gotta swallow that pride and accept the fact that there are guys better than your favorite player.
Who cares about those things? We're talking about the better player, and anyone sane would rather have Bird on their team, over Bron or Kobe.

[Kvnzhangyay]

He is universally ranked top 5 and is the current GOAT at his position. I don't think he is underrated at all

Both of these are highly debatable though...

I actually believe Larry Bird is overrated by people that never watched games of him, as those people just make their judgment based on what people say of him.

Watch the games people, then decide for yourself'

Truth is, he's for sure top 2 GOAT SF, and one of the (tempted to say the smartest) smartest basketball players ever. Anything else is debateable, and based on someone's opinion, he can either be overrated or underrated

[Bless Mathews]

Efficiency and rebounding (btw, one is a 6'6" SG and the other is a 6'9" SF/PF) doesn't make up for the large disparity between the two in career stats and achievements. Both are pretty equal passers, big men get more props for passing than smaller players.

Both players are clutch, you're beating a dead horse trying to compare what player is more clutch.

Larry Bird has 13 seasons in his resume with 10 of those being actually competitive compared to Kobe who is coming toward his 20th season with 15 of them already being competitive. Bird's career in those 13 years just doesn't stack to what Kobe has accomplished.

Also, bringing up skillset is a pretty irrelevant when compiling an All-Time list. I could name 10 centers in the history of the league with a better skillset than Bill Russell, yet that doesn't mean he isn't a Top 5 All-Time great.

Equal passers???


BwhahahahahhHahhBHHHAHAHhhahHahahahahahHhhHHhHhHHa hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Oh my stomach.


It hurts.


That shit is the dumbest sentence in this illustrious message board's history.



You don't know bball AT ALL.

[ShawkFactory]

Equal passers???


BwhahahahahhHahhBHHHAHAHhhahHahahahahahHhhHHhHhHHa hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Oh my stomach.


It hurts.


That shit is the dumbest sentence in this illustrious message board's history.



You don't know bball AT ALL.
For real. Larry is one of the best passers ever, regardless of position.

[Nikola_]

Didnt he lose 10 times with HCA?

[cltcfn2924]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Its so weird how nikkas have Magic 6 or 7 spots ahead of Bird on alltime lists these days. Magic wouldnt even go into the NBA if he wasnt playing with LA/Kareem. He always had stacked teams


Completely disagree. Magics' rookie year NBA finals KAJ gos down, Magic plays center and wins a chip. KAJ was a huge stat padder with no heart until he matched with Magic. Magic carried Kareem, you're just wrong.

[nzahir]

Efficiency and rebounding (btw, one is a 6'6" SG and the other is a 6'9" SF/PF) doesn't make up for the large disparity between the two in career stats and achievements. Both are pretty equal passers, big men get more props for passing than smaller players.

Both players are clutch, you're beating a dead horse trying to compare what player is more clutch.

Larry Bird has 13 seasons in his resume with 10 of those being actually competitive compared to Kobe who is coming toward his 20th season with 15 of them already being competitive. Bird's career in those 13 years just doesn't stack to what Kobe has accomplished.

Also, bringing up skillset is a pretty irrelevant when compiling an All-Time list. I could name 10 centers in the history of the league with a better skillset than Bill Russell, yet that doesn't mean he isn't a Top 5 All-Time great.
WRONG
Bird averaged more assists and is a better passer than kobe is.
Russell isnt a top 5 all time player, not even top 10, I have him at 11 just out of respect; but when there are 8 or less teams in the league and you have almost all of the HOF's you are going to win most times. When I say top 5 all time I think of it as who would I take if I had to bet money on them. I care a lot more about prime but I also do look at longevity. If bird played more and got more achievements I may have even had him higher.

Kobe is very unclutch actually, check the stats. You can research the rest yourself. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1649232-lebron-james-heat-star-statistically-most-clutch-player-since-nba-debut
https://www.google.com/search?q=kobe+not+clutch&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=879&tbm=isch&imgil=4JWF8a-encFWOM%253A%253BMrPWmrWxgUjR0M%253Bhttps%25253A%2 5252F%25252Fhoopsencyclopedia.wordpress.com%25252F 2012%25252F05%25252F17%25252Fespn-blows-the-door-open-on-kobe-bryants-clutch-problems-throughout-his-career%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=4JWF8a-encFWOM%253A%252CMrPWmrWxgUjR0M%252C_&dpr=1&usg=__GH6jeSLmxl3YFrPkm-ZXDRE3XSM%3D&ved=0CD8Qyjc&ei=N8yiVeLBAdC3oQSx2J6YDQ#imgrc=4JWF8a-encFWOM%3A&usg=__GH6jeSLmxl3YFrPkm-ZXDRE3XSM%3D

[Clifton]

I agree with OP. Will read the rest of the thread later. He is underrated.

Imagine what you all would be saying if prime Jason Kidd had Kevin Durant's jumpshot and scoring ability... and he were 6 inches taller. A better player than that is scarcely imaginable.

I don't think Bird was as good as Michael, but if Michael had never had Pippen and Phil Jackson, he might never have developed into the transcendent player he became. I also think certain centers, because of their defensive impact, might be taken over Bird.

But in the majority of circumstances I'm taking him over Shaq, Magic, Kobe, and Lebron.

[Fallen Angel]

http://i.gyazo.com/2df9c9f47dfe035876cc89a74bf3dd63.png

[Fallen Angel]

People are reaching hard trying to determine clutchness with these charts about 24 seconds on the shot clock. Kobe Bryant has video evidence of taking over countless of games in the 4th Quarter that people love to ignore.

[nzahir]

People are reaching hard trying to determine clutchness with these charts about 24 seconds on the shot clock. Kobe Bryant has video evidence of taking over countless of games in the 4th Quarter that people love to ignore.
Most kobe fans believe that the only thing that matters is the final shot and how kobe is so clutch at those moments...but he isnt. And he has had moments in 4th quarters but even his 4th quarter numbers are overrated. Lebron never gets the credit he deserves for final shots or last 5 minutes even though he has been the best at it in about 5-6 years

[SHAQisGOAT]

Great points there OP :applause: Somebody stole your account or what? :lol

Some people just love to name names and shit (plenty that Larry "made") without even knowing what they're talking about, without even scratching the surface or considering anything else...

Bird's 4 to 7 on the all-time list, and had a top5 GOAT peak.



Can people really back up why they believe Larry Bird is greater than Kobe Bryant? Fun fact: Kobe has played 6 more seasons, won 2 more championships, made 5 more All-Star teams, has him easily beat in both All-NBA and All-Defensive team selections, 2 more scoring titles, 11,000 more points, and 500 more assists.

His longevity and career stats just doesn't compare. It's hard to imagine All-Time greats getting surpassed but Bird has had multiple players that have played after him who've surpassed him on my All-Time list.

It happens, greats get passed up. Just gotta swallow that pride and accept the fact that there are guys better than your favorite player.

To hell with peak/prime play, right? :rolleyes: Or impact...

Kobe had a great peak/prime but not really ****ing with Bird's.

Rookie Bird led a 32W's turnaround with basically the same roster and a new coach, completely revived a dying franchise as the main-man from the start... 2nd worst record without him to best record (61W's) and the ECF.
If you wanna see a tremendous "carry-job" look at Bird in the 1984 Playoffs.
Watch how sophomore Larry led Boston over a 3-1 deficit while outplaying the MVP in the 1981 ECF.
Go see how Larry got them through the Bucks and the Pistons, in those extremely gruelsome 1987 series that went to 7 games... With McHale on a broken foot, Parish and Ainge not close to 100%, while they had virtually no bench.
................

^Kobe can't really **** with a lot of that.

And things like accolades can't be taken at face value... Bird played in the toughest era/conference, played in a time when you didn't get awards based on your name, so on; consider everything.

Even as far as defense... Kobe's definitely a greater perimeter defender who could lock guys down but gimme Bird in terms of overall defensive impact, reason why his teams were always considerably better defensively with him, reason why the Celtics were always one of the top defenses with him (healthy), reason why they went from sucking defensively to one of the best defenses when he 1st arrived...

Kobe has him beat on longevity (not even gonna discuss why here) but not nearly enough to overcome "everything else", not enough to be ranked above.

Seriously, posts like these are exactly the reasons why Bird gets underrated plenty.
I think Kobe's underrated as a passer but saying he's just as good as Larry :rolleyes:

[Psileas]

While I don't think Bird is very underrated (or overrated), I find it curious how certain fans, who blame certain players for having it too easy in their era because they were way bigger/stronger/more athletic/fitter than their competition, are NOT fans who pick (or sometimes seriously consider) Bird, a guy who was as little athletically gifted as any GOAT level player ever, as their GOAT, but someone else, who wasn't anywhere near as athletically handicapped, thus exposing their bias.

If you are a believer of "nature isn't fair, get over it", the GOAT will be much easier to be an athletic freak, preferably a tall athletic freak.

If you are a believer of "we shouldn't overlook physical obstacles that players have faced", Bird is at least as great as any player who's ever lived (Magic would give him a run for his money, but he does have some athleticism advantage).

[jstern]

What always amazes me is that in the 80s everyone agreed that he was better than Magic but now in reverse racist-white self loathing Obama 1984 2015 society people have decided Magic was superior.

I always say that top ten list are worth less. Because around 2008 or so, everybody on ISH had Larry Bird ahead of Magic whenever they mentioned their top ten. Everyone, and then two years later or so I was completely fascinated, amazed how almost everyone now had Magic ahead of Bird. Most people's top ten list is influenced by others top ten.

Anyway, Bird will be more and more underrated as the years pass by, simply because people's judgement of past players is heavily influenced by style and physical look, and not a deep understanding of a player's game. And Bird just does not look like your typical modern basketball player.

[Beastmode88]

Bird > Bran as far as SF come. He had to play vs the bad boys while bran, ::banana: .

[Euroleague]

why is he underrated. basically every ranking places him top 5-7. and this is a good, objective ranking.

he was gifted with a very very very talented team, with other all time greats on his roster for a long stretch.
Bird had some awful playoffs and finals series, where McHale was better.
so no, i think he clearly isnt underrated

If every ranking puts Bird in "top 5-7" then he is definitely underrated. Because he is better than that without question.

The only players that could be considered above him all time as far as NBA goes for me are Kareem and Jordan.

And if he would not had all his injury problems, he would probably be #1.

So then yeah, if all the lists are putting him at 5-7, for sure he is underrated then. That is probably the point being made here.

Just like if you watch the NBA Finals - that freaking jackass Mark Jackson will always say that LeBron is "best small forward in NBA history", claiming he is better than Bird was.

That is absolutely laughable.

But you have those morons like ESPN trying to claim that all the time.

[warriorfan]

Bird was crazy, like a strong 6'9'' Alpha version of Steve Nash

[outbreak]

these days too many people get blinded by athleticism. If you judge a player based on how effective they were in their own time period Bird is criminally under rated. I think it's the only fair way when doing top 10 lists unless it's a list of "who would in in a 1v1 game".

[outbreak]

If every ranking puts Bird in "top 5-7" then he is definitely underrated. Because he is better than that without question.

The only players that could be considered above him all time as far as NBA goes for me are Kareem and Jordan.

And if he would not had all his injury problems, he would probably be #1.

So then yeah, if all the lists are putting him at 5-7, for sure he is underrated then. That is probably the point being made here.

Just like if you watch the NBA Finals - that freaking jackass Mark Jackson will always say that LeBron is "best small forward in NBA history", claiming he is better than Bird was.

That is absolutely laughable.

But you have those morons like ESPN trying to claim that all the time.
I don't think he has a case of Jordan for #1 but as far as the rest of your post i agree with most of it. Especially the Mark Jackson stuff, the guy should be fired.

[RRR3]

There are aspects of Birds career that get ignored that Kobe or LeBron would be crucified for.

[Fallen Angel]

There are aspects of Birds career that get ignored that Kobe or LeBron would be crucified for.
Could you imagine if Kobe Bryant got punched by Michael Jordan while being held by Scottie Pippen.

Or Lebron getting hammered to the ground by Roy Hibbert during a playoff game then throwing the ball at him when the two are separated.

[Heavincent]

There are aspects of Birds career that get ignored that Kobe or LeBron would be crucified for.

Bird was a better player than both of them.

[Lebron23]

Bill Russell is the most underrated player of all time.