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3ball

07-14-2015, 12:42 AM

MJ is the only player that didn't have a teammate win FMVP.

:confusedshrug:

I include Lebron with the rest because Wade would've won FMVP in 2011 - if stans want to harp on this, then we can just add "and/or be the best player in the Finals" to the first sentence above.

Why is this important??.. Because it adds more evidence that MJ had the least help.

And here's some more evidence: in 1988 and 1989, Jordan outscored the Bulls’ second-leading scorer by an average of 22.6 points. Only one other player in NBA history, Wilt Chamberlain, had a greater margin over his team’s runner-up in scoring.

LAZERUSS

07-14-2015, 12:46 AM

warriorfan

07-14-2015, 12:48 AM

AMC should be on the list, got robbed by ESPN and bleacher report losers.

AMC will be the only championship winner to have zero hall of fame or future hall of fame teammates.

:applause:

TripleA

07-14-2015, 12:54 AM

AMC should be on the list, got robbed by ESPN and bleacher report losers.

AMC will be the only championship winner to have zero hall of fame or future hall of fame teammates.

:applause:

dude not even the Oakland writer voted for him.:lol

LAZERUSS

07-14-2015, 12:56 AM

dude not even the Oakland writer voted for him.:lol

I think his mother was one of the voters, as well.

:cheers:

G0ATbe

07-14-2015, 12:57 AM

1-9

SouBeachTalents

07-14-2015, 12:59 AM

imnew09

07-14-2015, 12:59 AM

MJ is the GOAT

in other words, the water is wet :confusedshrug:

Lebron23

07-14-2015, 01:00 AM

Pippen was putting up better finals stats than Iguodala, and Kawhi in the 1991-1993 NBA Finals.

LAZERUSS

07-14-2015, 01:07 AM

Round Mound

07-14-2015, 01:23 AM

Pippen was putting up better finals stats than Iguodala, and Kawhi in the 1991-1993 NBA Finals.

:applause:

ShawkFactory

07-14-2015, 01:28 AM

And 3ball is the only member on this forum that doesn't have a family member who loves him.

Sarcastic

07-14-2015, 01:59 AM

Dwyane Wade won FMVP in 2006.

imnew09

07-14-2015, 02:00 AM

Pippen was putting up better finals stats than Iguodala, and Kawhi in the 1991-1993 NBA Finals.

So is Jordan :confusedshrug: .

In fact, they all deserve FMVP over L2for6

oh wait....

Hamtaro CP3KDKG

07-14-2015, 02:05 AM

Rodman was real FMVP of 96 lettuce be real

Sarcastic

07-14-2015, 02:09 AM

Rodman was real FMVP of 96 lettuce be real

^^^ Didn't watch 1996 Finals.

iamgine

07-14-2015, 02:23 AM

According to OP...

Cedric Maxwell and Tony Parker won FMVP.

means

MJ had least help.

Hmm then Cedric and Tony must be better than Pippen. :applause:

3ball

07-14-2015, 02:56 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/08/sports/nba-finals-once-again-rodman-is-most-valuable-bull.html
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-06-17/sports/9606170154_1_dennis-rodman-bulls-crowning-moment
http://www.petemyersrules.com/2011/08/rodmans-mvp.html
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-06-11/sports/9806110398_1_scottie-pippen-bulls-karl-malone
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/635114/What-about-Pippen-for-NBA-Finals-MVP.html?pg=all
These are 4 devil's advocate, tongue-in-cheek articles written after Game 4, while the remaining 1000's of articles were written about MJ's superior performance.

Where were these articles after Pippen finished the series with 8 and 6 points in the Final 2 games, to finish the series averaging 15 ppg on 41%, same as Wade in 2014 Finals?... :oldlol:

3ball

07-14-2015, 02:58 AM

Pippen was putting up better finals stats than Iguodala, and Kawhi in the 1991-1993 NBA Finals.

The Bulls only had 2 high-producing players in 1991 Finals - MJ produced 31/7/11 on 56% and Pippen 21/9/7 on 47%.. After that, there was only Grant (15/8), Paxson (13/3), and Cartwright (9/5).. They were a 5-person team - that's it - no one else was above 5 ppg.

Also, Iggy's nearly Pippen-esque performance and stats in the 2015 NBA Finals sheds proper perspective on how much greater Jordan's FMVP performances/stats were, and needed to be against the superior competition and brand of basketball he faced..

In the 1991-1993 Finals, MJ's averaged 36/6/8 on 53% - this is what got FMVP in the 90's.. But today, MJ can have Curry's or Duncan's far lesser stats instead, while Pippen's 21/9/7 on 45% is overkill in winning FMVP.. :facepalm ... It's called a weaker era folks when Pippen gets to win MVP.

In b4 "MJ didn't lead the defense because Pippen guarded Magic in 1991 Finals".. This is poppycock.. MJ guarded Magic for 14 of the 20 quarters in 1991 Finals (70%), to Pippen's 6 of 20 (30%).. MJ was the primary defender on Magic.

Specifically, Pippen guarded Magic for 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters of Game 2... the 2nd and 3rd quarters of Game 3... the last 4 minutes of Game 4.. and none in Games 1 or 5:

Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddik5aZ02uA
Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMTY0xJSwRY
Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzLssE0Vcm4
Game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFcMrcXfCcU
Game 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9B9654H0Cc
.

SouBeachTalents

07-14-2015, 03:02 AM

These are 4 devil's advocate, tongue-in-cheek articles written after Game 4, while the remaining 1000's of articles were written about MJ's superior performance.

Where were these articles after Pippen finished the series with 8 and 6 points in the Final 2 games, to finish the series averaging 15 ppg on 41%, same as Wade in 2014 Finals?... :oldlol:

3 of them were actually about Rodman being Finals MVP in '96, the other 2 were about Pippen being Finals MVP in '98

rmt

07-14-2015, 03:07 AM

Hakeem didn't have any FMVP team mate. By your reasoning, it's better to have not reached subsequent Finals and risk a team mate getting FMVP.

3ball

07-14-2015, 03:11 AM

3 of them were actually about Rodman being Finals MVP in '96, the other 2 were about Pippen being Finals MVP in '98
the point remains, when you point out the severe exception to the rule, you prove the existence of the rule (in this case, MJ's goat Finals dominance)

raprap

07-14-2015, 04:10 AM

dude not even the Oakland writer voted for him.:lol
0-11

BigTicket

07-14-2015, 04:30 AM

You can add Kareem and Russell to the list.

ImKobe

07-14-2015, 04:50 AM

3 of them were actually about Rodman being Finals MVP in '96, the other 2 were about Pippen being Finals MVP in '98

brokeback Pippen a Finals MVP in 98 :roll: :roll:

dude was finished in the middle of Game 6, Jordan doesn't win the game by himself in the 4th and they would have gone to a Game 7 on the road with Pippen out

Rodman played well in 96 and Jordan did struggle in some games, but he averaged 31/5/5/2 on 46/50/81 shooting in the first 3 games with the Bulls basically having sealed the series up 3 - 0 already...MJ was the best player in 3 out of 4 wins in that series and the reason they had that title run. Just because he had a few horrible games in losses doesn't mean he wasn't the #1 contributor to them winning the series.

nzahir

07-14-2015, 04:54 AM

And 3ball is the only member on this forum that doesn't have a family member who loves him.
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Kevin-Garnett-Reaction-at-2013-Dunk-Contest.gif

NZStreetBaller

07-14-2015, 06:35 AM

Wow this is actually a pretty amazing thing. Majority of the guys on the all time list played alongside fmvps!!

And you can add that mj the record holder in fmvps. Undefeated in the finals and no one even took him to game 7. And that whole time never had a fmvp alongside him.

I always knew mj was the goat. But i never took into account just how wide the gap between mj and everyone else was.

To think people actually compare lebron and kobe to this guy. He is the most lonely guy in nba history when it comes to greatness.

NZStreetBaller

07-14-2015, 06:36 AM

Might as well add the fact that the bulls NEVER won a chip without him. Hell they may never even make the finals again.

Most guys on the all time list have played in decorated franchises lakers celtics etc.

Trollsmasher

07-14-2015, 06:51 AM

[QUOTE=3ball]MJ is the only player that didn't have a teammate win FMVP.

:confusedshrug:

I include Lebron with the rest because Wade would've won FMVP in 2011 - if stans want to harp on this, then we can just add "and/or be the best player in the Finals" to the first sentence above.

Why is this important??.. Because it adds more evidence that MJ had the least help.

And here's some more evidence: in 1988 and 1989, Jordan outscored the Bulls

Papaya Petee

07-14-2015, 09:59 AM

The Heat would've only won if Bron played like a FMVP
No :roll:

Lebron averages 21 PPG the Heat win that series. Wade still gets FMVP.

Nash

07-14-2015, 10:02 AM

'include wade cuz he would have won in 2011'

wait what? Clearly he didn't win because he was not good enough to lead the team to the championship which therefore automatically doesn't make him the finals most valuable player.

Dresta

07-14-2015, 10:31 AM

He had rosters that could win 55 win games without him, as well. In fact, had that '94 roster not had Pippen and Grant missing 22 games, they likely win their 4th straight title.

The Lakers before Magic? 47-35. The Lakers after Kareem? 63-19. The Lakers after Magic? 43-39 (and then 39-43.)
Obsessed with the unimportant regular season win column just like his boy.

And yet you will always prop up guys who disappear when it really matters.

Dresta

07-14-2015, 10:32 AM

Dresta

07-14-2015, 10:36 AM

No :roll:

Lebron averages 21 PPG the Heat win that series. Wade still gets FMVP.
Let's be real: if Bron doesn't come back into the game and hijack the offense in order to statpad at the end of game 2, the Heat likely win the series.

dunksby

07-14-2015, 10:41 AM

Jordan is also the only one out of those to quit on his team.

Wade's Rings

07-14-2015, 10:50 AM

Let's be real: if Bron doesn't come back into the game and hijack the offense in order to statpad at the end of game 2, the Heat likely win the series.

In Game 5 after Wade puts the Heat up 99-95 with a 3...Bron holds the ball for the next 4 Possessions coming up 2 missed jumpers on 5'9 Barrea & 38yr old Jason Kidd and 2 Turnovers :facepalm LeSabotage

dunksby

07-14-2015, 10:55 AM

Obsessed with the unimportant regular season win column just like his boy.

And yet you will always prop up guys who disappear when it really matters.

Dresta use this for your new avvy :lol
http://i0.wp.com/craphound.com/images/karlmarxcard_custom.jpg

LAZERUSS

07-14-2015, 10:55 AM

In Game 5 after Wade puts the Heat up 99-95 with a 3...Bron holds the ball for the next 4 Possessions coming up 2 missed jumpers on 5'9 Barrea & 38yr old Jason Kidd and 2 Turnovers :facepalm LeSabotage

Of course in the clinching game six defeat, Wade puked all over the floor. After that debacle, the team reigns were turned over to Lebron, and he led a broken down Wade and a worthless Bosh to three Finals, and two rings.

Wade's Rings

07-14-2015, 11:16 AM

Of course in the clinching game six defeat, Wade puked all over the floor

Wade was hurt in Game 6. Puking is having 8 pts in Game 4 with a chance to go up 3-1.

After that debacle, the team reigns were turned over to Lebron, and he led a broken down Wade and a worthless Bosh to three Finals, and two rings.

22/5/5 regular season
23/5/4 playoffs
23/6/5 Finals.

Not to mention, that Wade's playoff numbers were dipped because the Heat completely blew out the Knicks, which limited his minutes, shots, and necessity to shoot. If that series was closer Wades averaging 22-24 in that series not 19 PPG. He didn't have a single weak game that series and wasn't neccessary to produce more.

If you looked at the playoffs #s and saw 24/5/5 or 25/5/4 you would immediatly say he played like a superstar was just a 2nd option. The difference being 1-2 PPG. Mostly due to the Knicks series.

Vs Indiana aside from the disasterous 5 point game, Wade was spectacular with Bosh out. 26/6/3 as a second option. Down 1-2 at Indiana a 30/9/6 game. 28 points in a blowout game 5. 41/10/3/2 in game 6 on the road to close out the Pacers.

In the ECF vs the Celtics for the first 5 games Wade was trapped and doubled on any pick and roll. Doc Rivers chose to double and trap Wade after seeing Wade destroy Indiana in the last 3 games. Yet Wade still had a 22/5/5 series which is great for a "broken down second option"
17 point game 6 was his weakest game that series with Miami blowing out Boston due to Lebrons legendary game.

23/6/5 in the finals. Aside from the 19 point game in game 1 (weakest game of the finals) he had 24,25,25,20 point games. As a second option once again "broken down" he was very consistent.

2013 Wade averages 21/5/5/1/1 on 51% shooting in the regular season, and was amazing during the win streak.
Obviously he was very injured during the playoffs, but in the first 2 rounds once again his production, shots, and minutes weren't required as the Heat steamrolled through the Bucks and Bulls.

He was very poor in the 2013 ECF, but finished strong with a 20/5/4 NBA Finals when needed the most. 32/6/4 in a must win game 4, 25/10 in game 5 and 23/10 in a closeout game 7.

2014 Wade averaged 19/5/5 on 54% FG which are still strong 2nd option #s. He wasn't really injured as much, the Heat coaching stuff just assigned him the most retarded resting schedule ever, which made him out of shape.

Aside from the finals, where he was disasterous, he had a good run for the first 3 rounds.

Was at about 20/5/4 for the first 3 rounds. Once again numbers lowered by the Charlotte series where Wades production wasn't neccessary as the Bobcats got easily swept. He had a strong ECF and a strong 2nd round.

Was he injured? Yes. Was the 2013 playoff horrendous until the finals? Yes. But 2012 he was still a borderline superstar, and a top 10 player in 2013 regular season.

Are you going to reply to this or keep deflecting?

KobesFinger

07-14-2015, 11:29 AM

Hakeem didn't have any FMVP team mate. By your reasoning, it's better to have not reached subsequent Finals and risk a team mate getting FMVP.

This has been conveniently glossed over somehow

ArbitraryWater

07-14-2015, 11:30 AM

Outstanding RESEARCH.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

thank Roundball Rock..

basically, Rodman 1996 FMVP, LeBron only ATG to n

Bernkastel

07-14-2015, 11:35 AM

OP is insecure as hell.

3ball

07-14-2015, 11:42 AM

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]thank Roundball Rock..

basically, Rodman 1996 FMVP, LeBron only ATG to n

3ball

07-14-2015, 11:43 AM

OP is insecure as hell.
sounds like you're insecure about whether i'm insecure.

Wade's Rings

07-14-2015, 11:45 AM

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]thank Roundball Rock..

basically, Rodman 1996 FMVP, LeBron only ATG to n

3ball

07-14-2015, 11:45 AM

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]

basically, Rodman 1996 FMVP, LeBron only ATG to n

3ball

07-14-2015, 11:52 AM

Of course in the clinching game six defeat, Wade puked all over the floor

It didn't matter - Game 6 was a foregone conclusion - the Heat's capacity for counter-adjustments was used up by Game 4 of the series, at which point they didn't win another game.. Everyone knew Game 6 would me "mailed in", just like the Lakers in 2004 against the Pistons in Game 5, when they knew they had no answer and couldn't win.

Sports leagues like NHL, MLB, and NBA want the best team to win the championship.. But how many series do you see where a team goes up 2-1, or even 2-0, only to get smashed in 6 or 7 games?.. It happens a lot, probably like, 20% or something when a team gets a 2-1 or 2-0 lead.

Sports leagues don't want teams that aren't the best team winning 20% of the time due to a 2, 3, or 4-game series format, so they make it 7 games.. This gives everyone the chance to make an adjustment or two, so teams have a chance to realize their true capacity to counter an opponent's initial attack, and overall attack.

The 7-game series format hurts Lebron's game, which can sometimes be forceful, but ultimately limited and unadjustable - his latest Finals loss is the 2nd time he's lost a 2-1 lead (2011 and 2015).. If playoffs series were 3-game series he'd have twice as many rings (4/6)... I'm sure he'd love a shorter series, so he doesn't cramp, get "gassed", or get have his game exposed.. Then he could pull the wool over everyone's eyes and pretend to be almost as good as MJ.

But unfortunately, the Finals is 7-game format, so Lebron's holes and shortcomings are exposed for the world to see.. In these latest Finals, the Warriors made the adjustment in Game 4, while Lebron gassed out with 20 points and 0 in the 4th - this was classic-Lebron, disappearing on the big stage.. Lebron couldn't counter in that series (like, for example, MJ in did in Game 4 of 1993 ECF), so the Warriors won 3 straight games and would win EVERY game if more were played - with all the adjustments made, the Warriors would SWEEP if the series were played again.