How did Parker and Ginobli get drafted so low?

[FKAri]

And how did the Spurs know about them while no one else did?

[WorldWarriors]

And how did the Spurs know about them while no one else did?

Depends on the scouting. Spurs had Duncan so they weren't looking for a franchise player like most other teams. They were looking to improve on their foundation. A lot of teams were looking for top players they were looking for pieces. Kind of like they do now and always have. Was anybody checking for Kawhi?

[Braincells]

GOAT scouting and management.

[tpols]

GOAT scouting and management.

Also goat development.. i don't think either would be anywhere near as good on a shitty team.. or if they went to a team that plays dumb iso superstar ball they mightve turned out like vs pan on the rockets.

[Jon_Koncak]

Because teams didnt trust international players back then.Kings picked Peja at 14 and Kings fans werre booing cause they wanted Jon Wallace :lol Then a wave of successfull international players emerges and we went to the other extreme with Tsikitsvilis and Koroloevs being lottery picks.

[outbreak]

Would Parker and Ginobli look as good as they did on another team? I think they are great players but the spurs system also does a great job of finding the correct role for players and having a cast that compliments their weaknesses.

[FKAri]

It's not just them tho. It just seems that lightning keeps hitting. It's not luck. They're doing something different over there.

Leonard at 15
DeJuan Blair at 37
George Hill at 26
Dragic at 45 (though they traded him for peanuts)
Splitter at 28
Beno Udrih at 28

This is just the last few years and these picks are all steals imo. Sure they've had some duds but from what I'm looking at far less than any other team in the league.

[ClipperRevival]

It's not just them tho. It just seems that lightning keeps hitting. It's not luck. They're doing something different over there.

Leonard at 15
DeJuan Blair at 37
George Hill at 26
Dragic at 45 (though they traded him for peanuts)
Splitter at 28
Beno Udrih at 28

This is just the last few years and these picks are all steals imo. Sure they've had some duds but from what I'm looking at far less than any other team in the league.

They obviously have a great scouting department. All you need is one guy who can spot the talent. Don't know who that is but someone in that scouting department knows what the hell he's doing.

Also, the first things scouts look for is rare athleticism and/or siz. Parker or Manu never had that. They were quick in spots but nothing that stood out. So they had to dig deeper and look for other signs.

[Haymaker]

I still don't know why they traded Scola and Dragic.

[r0drig0lac]

who saw Ginobili play for the Argentina national team and Virtus Bologna since 2000 knew he would be a monster in any team, but the scouting SA is above the others

[outbreak]

Rob Hennigan was credited as playing a big role in some of these drafts steals too. He's whiffed on Nicholson and Harkless but hopefully his other choices in Orlando stick. He was also involved in the westbrook, ibaka, harden and bledsoe choices. Don't think he was in SA for parker and ginobli but i believe he was for some of the other players mentioned here.

[ClipperRevival]

who saw Ginobili play for the Argentina national team and Virtus Bologna since 2000 knew he would be a monster in any team, but the scouting SA is above the others

You're probably right in that a lot of other scouts would've been high on Manu had they saw him. And another aspect of good scouting is scouring the planet to look for that diamond in the rough. How many teams were willing to send a scout to Argentina and take the time to watch Manu play over several games and interview his coaches, etc?

[iamgine]

Everyone who come to the NBA has enormous talent. It's all about developing these talents. It's not like Tony Parker has more talent at the beginning than say...Kwame Brown.

[outbreak]

Everyone who come to the NBA has enormous talent. It's all about developing these talents. It's not like Tony Parker has more talent at the beginning than say...Kwame Brown.
that's true. I think if some of the big name draft busts had landed in a different situation they could have been good picks. Too much emphasis placed on a player when they bust and not enough blame on a team for not developing the player correctly in some cases.

[IncarceratedBob]

Honestly how many great French/Mexican NBA players have there been before? Very few if many. Nobody thought a Frenchman like Parker or a Mexican like Ginobili could be legitimate NBA players. That's why they fell.

[outbreak]

Honestly how many great French/Mexican NBA players have there been before? Very few if many. Nobody thought a Frenchman like Parker or a Mexican like Ginobili could be legitimate NBA players. That's why they fell.
Ginobli is mexican? I thought he was an italian raised in argentina? Gustav Ayon comes to mind as a recent mexican player.

[IncarceratedBob]

Ginobli is mexican? I thought he was an italian raised in argentina? Gustav Ayon comes to mind as a recent mexican player.
well when is say Mexican I mean all those central america countries

[outbreak]

well when is say Mexican I mean all those central america countries
Sorry to be pedantic but Argentina is in south america not central america. Central america is like guatemala, honduras, nicaragua and the like. I get what you mean though. We've probably seen more mexican players than south american players make the NBA have we?

[r0drig0lac]

well when is say Mexican I mean all those central america countries
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/biggums.png

[FKAri]

Some of it is development, sure. But the guys I listed in my post above could play right away for the most part. None of these guys were projects.

I think it's talent evaluation more than it is development.

However what could be more important than both is the system since we've all heard of Spurs taking cast offs and making them serviceable.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Manu and Tom Brady are the greatest draft steals in sports

[T_L_P]

Would Parker and Ginobli look as good as they did on another team? I think they are great players but the spurs system also does a great job of finding the correct role for players and having a cast that compliments their weaknesses.

No
Yes

[triangleoffense]

Because they weren't NBA ready.. I think they were drafted as projects for Pop to work on and they turned out much more than they hoped for. A lot of the greatness in players have to do with coaching... think of any great player and you can also name a great coach he played for (as well as other great players)..

Prime example: Wilt won nothing until Alex Hannum

[Spurs5Rings2014]

No
Yes

Precisely this. Duncan made them similar to how Jordan made Pippen. GOAT's gonna GOAT.

:pimp:

[kentatm]

a major part of why Manu went in the second round is b/c teams knew he wasn't going to come over right away.

he was drafted in 1999 but didn't come over until 2002.

[SCdac]

Parker benefited from the Spurs 'system' much more than Ginobili did. Manu was getting his own MVP's or Finals MVP's overseas and came into the NBA already halfway into his 20's. He was the leader of that Argentinian team that put a beating on the US team. Parker on the other hand was 18/19 years old with AS potential but had a broken jumper and alot of learning to do being so young

[TheBigVeto]

Racism

[Euroleague]

You're probably right in that a lot of other scouts would've been high on Manu had they saw him. And another aspect of good scouting is scouring the planet to look for that diamond in the rough. How many teams were willing to send a scout to Argentina and take the time to watch Manu play over several games and interview his coaches, etc?

Manu was playing in Italy and was playing in Euroleague. They did not have to go to Argentina. In fact, a lot of his Euroleague games were available on NBC in the USA to watch live on TV back then.

You make it sound like Kevin Bacon in The Air Up There or something.

It's a bunch of bullshit.

NBA teams simply don't follow the Euroleague, then or now.

[Euroleague]

Parker benefited from the Spurs 'system' much more than Ginobili did. Manu was getting his own MVP's or Finals MVP's overseas and came into the NBA already halfway into his 20's. He was the leader of that Argentinian team that put a beating on the US team. Parker on the other hand was 18/19 years old with AS potential but had a broken jumper and alot of learning to do being so young

Manu's Argentina national team stuff from those early years is mostly a myth. That was a great TEAM. NBA fans have created another myth and legend that Manu somehow single handed was that team.

He was just one of many great players in that team. If anything, Scola was even the first option of the team. And the point guards definitely did most of the play making. And the actual "leader" of the team would have been either Sconochini or Oberto.

[SCdac]

Manu's Argentina national team stuff is mostly a myth. That was a great TEAM. NBA fans have created another myth and legend that Manu somehow single handed was that team.

He was just one of many great players in that team. If anything, Scola was even the first option of the team. And the point guards definitely did most of the play making.

IIRC, Manu lead their team in scoring and assists in their best runs. I never said they were a bad team or that Manu was superman - simply, he was their leader. If you want to split hairs do it with somebody else. My simple point in regards to this thread is that Manu was an excellent player in his own right around the time he joined the Spurs and sprouted into an NBA "All Star" quicker than Parker did, which is true. Manu made the AS game in 2005 and went on to have an excellent playoff run, while Parker became an AS a year later after he revamped his jumpshot (under Spurs shooting coach Chip Engellend) and improved his finishing skills around the basket.


Manu Ginobili scored 29 points to lead his nation to another victory over the country that used to dominate the sport, an 89-81 win in the Olympic semifinals Friday night.
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer04/basketball/news/story?id=1869300

[r0drig0lac]

Argentina was a legendary team (Juan Sanchez, Oberto, Sconochini, etc..), but Ginobili and Noccioni were their leaders until the WC2006

[Lebron23]

Would Parker and Ginobli look as good as they did on another team? I think they are great players but the spurs system also does a great job of finding the correct role for players and having a cast that compliments their weaknesses.


They were good international players. Parker showed some potential in the Nike Hoop Summit.

The Spurs have a good pair of eyes for NBA Talent.