Silver: "A significant number of teams are continuing to lose money"

[JohnMax]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/adam-silver---a-significant-number-of--nba--teams-are-continuing-to-lose-money-181655210.html

Failure of LeBrons to captivate the Globe. Imagine the Bulls in this social media Era. It would be the Beatles all over again.

[chips93]

pre lockout posturing from silver

this is exactly what stern said before the last lockout

its bs. people dont pay 200 million for businesses that dont turn a profit.

[kentatm]

http://media.philly.com/images/021514_adam-silver_600.jpg

"A GOOD PORTION OF THE LEAGUE IS LOSING MONEY!!!"


meanwhile, in Detroit...

http://i58.tinypic.com/xpy6tw.jpg

"This guy makes as much as me now? WTF?"



Adam Silver sir,

http://24.media.tumblr.com/d10294cf7552c2319b847adebfd1444b/tumblr_n300yxaBxE1tq4of6o1_500.gif

:hammerhead:

[TripleA]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/adam-silver---a-significant-number-of--nba--teams-are-continuing-to-lose-money-181655210.html

Failure of LeBrons to captivate the Globe. Imagine the Bulls in this social media Era. It would be the Beatles all over again.

How is it his fault that the hornets lose money you troll.:facepalm

[Bernkastel]

Contraction is the only answer.

[Rooster]

pre lockout posturing from silver

this is exactly what stern said before the last lockout

its bs. people dont pay 200 million for businesses that dont turn a profit.

Yes. We heard this losing money BS before and awful franchise like the Clips got sold for 2 billion.:rolleyes:

[Haymaker]

Contraction is the only answer.

This. Time to take away shitty franchises.

Hornets
Knicks
Nets
Timberwolves
Jazz
Magic
Nuggets

[ALBballer]

Paper losses just like the losses the Nets reported when their financials were leaked...

http://goingconcern.com/2011/6/who-wants-to-comb-over-the-new-jersey-nets-financial-statements

[outbreak]

pre lockout posturing from silver

this is exactly what stern said before the last lockout

its bs. people dont pay 200 million for businesses that dont turn a profit.
Mainly bullshit but more misleading. Some don't turn a profit from basketball related activities but do through other means and deals. Also they make back more than their losses in the value of the franchise when they sell it or borrow against it

[Bernkastel]

This. Time to take away shitty franchises.

Hornets
Knicks
Nets
Timberwolves
Jazz
Magic
Nuggets

RIP, poor franchises. Don't forget the Kings though.

[MP.Trey]

I blame LeBron.

[outbreak]

RIP, poor franchises. Don't forget the Kings though.
TIME had DeVos in the top 10 richest NBA owners....
The franchise was also valued as the 17th most expensive....

[Bernkastel]

TIME had DeVos in the top 10 richest NBA owners....
The franchise was also valued as the 17th most expensive....

They should move to New York.

[Lebron23]

Contraction is the only answer.


First time I agree with you.

[bluechox2]

This. Time to take away shitty franchises.

Hornets
Knicks
Nets
Timberwolves
Jazz
Magic
Nuggets
you confuse shitty with poor...shitty can still be shitty when they can keep the doors open

[kells333]

This. Time to take away shitty franchises.

Hornets
Knicks
Nets
Timberwolves
Jazz
Magic
Nuggets

Alot of peoples favorite players wouldnt even be in the league.

[HylianNightmare]

This. Time to take away shitty franchises.

Hornets
Knicks
Nets
Timberwolves
Jazz
Magic
Nuggets
ugh then i'd have to be a heat fan:(

[kshutts1]

I like that Silver "couldn't remember" the exact number of teams losing money.

There are only 30 teams... if they are truly losing money, how hard can it be?

[Sportal]

ugh then i'd have to be a heat fan:(

We don't even WANT YOU, Hylian, alright bro. Damn.

lolol

[bdreason]

So what? Since when is owning a business supposed to guarantee a profit?


I'm guessing the teams losing money also have shit management.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Haven't they just handed over like a billion in new contract money this summer? Reggie Jackson and Enes Kanter are getting 80 mil.

[CakeorDeath]

This. Time to take away shitty franchises.

Hornets
Knicks
Nets
Timberwolves
Jazz
Magic
Nuggets

How are the Jazz a shitty franchise? Or, perhaps a better question, if the Jazz are shitty, how did the following teams not also make your list?

Raptors
Sixers
Wizards
Hawks
Pacers
Bucks
Cavs
Pistons
Pelicans
Suns
Kings

Case could be made for the Clippers and Warriors too, two teams that were bad for years and years and just recently became relevant. Outside of the big three years (which produced 1 chip), Boston hasn't been particularly relevant since the 80s.

So what defines shitty? Not consistently threatening title contention? Not representing a market of predetermined size? Not selling enough seats/merchandise/TV revenue?

In today's NBA, the only thing that matters is the superstar players. They bring wins, championships, revenue. Without them, teams fade into mediocrity. Look at Cleveland with and without LeBron. Miami was the center of the league for four years; now no one cares about them on a national level. Look at OKC last year; Durant went down and nobody paid attention to them anymore.

Any team that doesn't have a legit superstar (and in this day and age, probably at least a superstar plus two all stars) is going to look shitty. Smaller markets have to hope they can find one in the draft. Big markets can buy them.

Fans are smart. They can see that every year there's really only about 4 teams who can really win it. Right now, none of those four are on your shitty list, for obvious reasons. However, give it 10 years and they easily could be because the power will have shifted. So who's safe?

The only reason to contract is if a market cannot support a team. The Jazz are well supported, I can assure you that. I pity any person who tries to take that team out of Salt Lake.

[Blue&Orange]

when are people going to get that teams handing out big contracts doesn't matter, players get 50% of the revenue with or without big contracts.~

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/steve_aschburner/07/12/labor-update/

[Real Men Wear Green]

when are people going to get that teams handing out big contracts doesn't matter, players get 50% of the revenue with or without big contracts.~

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/steve_aschburner/07/12/labor-update/
That would effect the overall profitability of the league. Individual player contracts still effect the team that signs them. If the Bobcats go nuts one year and double the cap they have to pay out all that money plus luxury tax money and the escrow withheld from contracts gets shared out, not refunded directly to the teams that spent it.

[kurple]

This. Time to take away shitty franchises.

Hornets
Knicks
Nets
Timberwolves
Jazz
Magic
Nuggets
Nuggets made the playoffs 10 times in a row before they missed it twice


wouldnt call the Jazz or Magic shitty franchises either

[stephanieg]

Sure, just like how every Hollywood movie loses money too.

[Millslapped]

This. Time to take away shitty franchises.

Hornets
Knicks
Nets
Timberwolves
Jazz
Magic
Nuggets
RDV is the 2nd richest owner in the NBA and the Magic have made multiple finals appearances. Getting rid of the Knicks also isn't happening. Stop shitposting moron.

[Real14]

This. Time to take away shitty franchises.

Hornets
Knicks
Nets
Timberwolves
Jazz
Magic
Nuggets

Keep talking shit knowing your team beat us mainly because of Ewing being injured in the finals:coleman:

[Real14]

Nuggets made the playoffs 10 times in a row before they missed it twice


wouldnt call the Jazz or Magic shitty franchises either

You still hold a grudge on the knicks?:lol Thats the only team on that list that won at least 1 phucking ring:oldlol:

[Velocirap31]

I hope the NBA doesn't go the route of the NHL where super profit teams like Toronto and Montreal support shitty money pit teams in Phoenix and Florida.

If your city can't support a profitable team, you shouldn't have a team. Unless your owner doesn't care about throwing money away.

[midatlantic09]

Perhaps if they stopped paying role players $10-15 million a year, they wouldn't lose money...

[Jailblazers7]

Nobody believes you Adam.

[DeuceWallaces]

And so it begins....

The pre-lockout bullshit. Cooking the books to indicate losses while their franchises sell for a 10 fold profit.

They kicked and screamed over getting shorter deals, but the star players realized they can go on 1-2 year deals and hold the franchise hostage and turn temporary GM in the process.

I wonder what they'll cry about next time. I hope the players strike for a year and crush them.

[HurricaneKid]

The article linked to about the NJN taxes is prescient. If you pay yourself 50M/yr through a dummy co you own like Shinn was doing, or/or write off 25m for specious reasons like "Roster depreciation allowance" you can turn any gain into a loss.

Furthermore, this is mostly just the owners fighting over THEIR split. For example: players get 50% of BRI. When the Lakers sell their local TV rights for 150M/season the Bobcats have to pay 2.5M more in player salaries even though they don't see a nickel of that money. Baseball, football, etc all split that revenue.

Donald Sterling was among the worst business owners in the country over the 30 years he owned the Clippers. Yet he paid 12.5M for the team and sold it for 2B. Thats an 16000% return.

[Crown&Coke]

NBAPA: "Prove it, open your books"

Owners: "Take our word for it"

[Derka]

Shut the f*ck up on this one, Silver. Until the owners open up every book, I'm not interested in hearing it.

You're doing a good job but don't go setting the table for the next lockout because a group of billionaires want to cry poverty.

[DCL]

nothing but accounting tricks

[RidonKs]

Paper losses just like the losses the Nets reported when their financials were leaked...

http://goingconcern.com/2011/6/who-wants-to-comb-over-the-new-jersey-nets-financial-statements
wow good link..


The first thing to do is toss out that $25 million loss, says Rodney Fort, a sports economist at the University of Michigan [See correction above.]. That's not a real loss. That's house money. The Nets didn't have to write any checks for $25 million. What that $25 million represents is the amount by which Nets owners reduced their tax obligation under something called a roster depreciation allowance, or RDA.
Bear with me now. The RDA dates back to 1959, and was maybe [sports franchise owner] Bill Veeck's biggest hustle in a long lifetime of hustles. Veeck argued to the IRS that professional athletes, once they've been paid for, "waste away" like livestock. Therefore a sports team's roster, like a farmer's cattle or an office copy machine or a new Volvo, is a depreciable asset.

The underlying logic is specious at best. As Fort points out, a team's roster at any given moment isn't actually depreciating. While some players are fading with age, others are developing and improving. But the Nets don't have to pay more taxes when a player becomes more valuable. And in any case, the cost of depreciation is borne by the athletes themselves, when they pass their primes and lose their personal earning power.


lol at the first comment


Meanwhile, on Grantland...something about Ryan Reynolds.

[SwishSquared]

I think Lowe tweeted out that majority of these losses are for < $10M. Additionally, I view this as akin to a startup's investors "losing" money annually while their shares increase in value. At the time of an exit, their shares have risen dramatically and they rake in a massive gain.

One thing I'm curious about though is if these team's are losing money prior to sharing of national TV revenue. So, when these teams taking losses on "basketball operations," does that only include revenue from merchandise, sales in their own arena, and local TV deals? I might be way off base with this thought.

One other thought- it's possible to turn a profit while being bad. 76ers have been profitable since Hinkie took over, even if they don't have the marketability of other team's that are currently much better. You have to exploit legal moves, such as being above salary floor but below the tax (and thus get revenue-sharing via tax redistribution), pawn off picks and/or players' rights for cash, and exercise discipline when signing FAs.

I remember Charlotte losing money like last year or the season before when they had no shot of competing. Just had middling vets on multi-year deals and revenue-sharing apparently didn't make up enough for them to break-even.

This is pre-lockout posturing, plain and simple. Players know they got ripped off in the last CBA and Silver is trying to lay groundwork for reasoning why players shouldn't get a significantly better deal.

For example, if the Nets are so unprofitable, why is the majority owner trying to buy even more shares in both the arena and the team? He sees the endgame of a windfall of profits in selling the team + real estate, likely in 2016 or 2017 when this team has $$$ to bring in FAs.

[kentatm]

.

One thing I'm curious about though is if these team's are losing money prior to sharing of national TV revenue. So, when these teams taking losses on "basketball operations," does that only include revenue from merchandise, sales in their own arena, and local TV deals? I might be way off base with this thought.


at least in the case of arenas I know that owners will charge the team to rent arenas they own. So even though the money is passing from left hand to right, they still list the "cost" to rent as an expense against potential profits.

[HoopologyPhD]

If this were true, I am pretty sure they would get rid of the WNBA which is almost completely subsidized by the real NBA.