The big three sports in America

[GIF REACTION]

Football, Basketball, Baseball.

Football GOAT?
http://imgs.sfgate.com/inline/e/pxs/1998/09/03/rice-jerry.jpg

Basketball GOAT?
http://awesomeish.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Michael-Jordan.jpg

Baseball GOAT?
http://media.philly.com/images/020413-bonds-barry-600.jpg

These guys are examples of what happens when you combine top notch genetics with GOAT level skillsets. 2 are from the Bay area. Godbless. "From Oakland to Sactown. The Bay Area and back down"

[christian1923]

Football, Basketball, Baseball.

Football GOAT?
http://imgs.sfgate.com/inline/e/pxs/1998/09/03/rice-jerry.jpg

Basketball GOAT?
http://awesomeish.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Michael-Jordan.jpg

Baseball GOAT?
http://media.philly.com/images/020413-bonds-barry-600.jpg

These guys are examples of what happens when you combine top notch genetics with GOAT level skillsets. 2 are from the Bay area. Godbless. "From Oakland to Sactown. The Bay Area and back down"

Willie Mays

[MMM]

**** THE GIANTS!!!!!!!!

SF can dive off and sink into the pacific

[GIF REACTION]

**** THE GIANTS!!!!!!!!

SF can dive off and sink into the pacific
10', 12', 14'

Yeah baby.

GOAT player.

Yeah baby.

[Legends66NBA7]

Ice Hockey gets no love ?

A Canadian team hasn't eon a Stanley Cup since 93. LA has won 2 of the last 4 and Chicago has won 3 of the last 5.

[ISHGoat]

Ice Hockey gets no love ?

A Canadian team hasn't eon a Stanley Cup since 93. LA has won 2 of the last 4 and Chicago has won 3 of the last 5.

NHL has like 4% market compared to NFL's 30-40%, mlb 20%, nba 15-20%, etc

[GIF REACTION]

Isn't it funny that the GOAT's of each of the three major sports came in around the same time? Jordan in 85, Rice in 85, Bonds in 86. A special timeframe in sports, connecting the old eras to the modern. The rise of PED's, before over exposure and media scrutiny against them. Pre internet age.

[Hittin_Shots]

Mlb can suck a dick

[MMM]

if you are reppin bay then you should know

Rickey>>>>Bonds

Rickey actually grew up in the Bay

[kennethgriffin]

pretty sure the US has 4 major team sports


football goat = jim brown ( rice was dependant on montana and young )

basketball goat = kareem abdul jabbar ( goat career by far college/nba/longevity/records/winning/ achievements )

baseball goat = babe ruth ( by far really... bonds didnt win 20 games as a pitcher before hitting his 700+ home runs like ruth did ... and no steroids)

hockey goat = wayne gretzky ( all time scoring champ with or without his all time leading goals scored. more assists than anyone else has goals+assists. 4 cups, 8 mvps in a row - 9 overall )

[Bernkastel]

Bonds? :roll:

[Overdrive]

Had to check the pic info to find out who the baseball guy is, that's how popular it is over here. Jerry Rice is known to people with interest in american football, but I thought football GOAT would be a QB since they get the biggest rep for rings unless a team is centered around a prime Ray Lewis caliber guy & his D.

So why isn't Montana GOAT?

[kennethgriffin]

Bonds? :roll:


seriously... even if we dont count his steroid usage


dude wore protective armour. which in itself is a glaring advantage over the old days since a 90 MPH fastball can kill a person. and it wasnt just about his robotic arm

players that hit 5-600 homeruns without battitng helmets = pure G's


i got willy mays/babe ruth both ahead of bonds

and a sh*t ton of guys ahead if we count his cheating against him


griffey was basically barry bonds without the roids. and he played a tougher position in center field with more ground to cover



griffey has 20 home run stealing over the wall catches. bonds has zero

[TylerOO]

baseball is free falling.

[Bernkastel]

So why isn't Montana GOAT?

Because Jim Brown and Jerry Rice are better.


snip

Agreed. The fake Bay fans that have been coming up with these shit threads need to stop. Bonds using PEDs auto-disqualifies him from any GOAT ranking.

I don't agree with most of what you say, but you have a solid GOAT list up there.

[GreggPopazit]

Pete Rose is arguably the GOAT baseball player, but due to his gambling MLB wants to pretend he doesn't exist.

[GIF REACTION]

Barry GOAT Bonds.

https://youtu.be/LnjKRpTDyBQ

[GIF REACTION]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXSPpN86or0

GOAT recognize GOAT.

[Richie2k6]

Barry Bonds GOAT? lol

[Done_And_Done]

Arguably the most talented of all time... Injuries killed him

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/5688/354948-griffey_4.jpg

[ShawkFactory]

seriously... even if we dont count his steroid usage


dude wore protective armour. which in itself is a glaring advantage over the old days since a 90 MPH fastball can kill a person. and it wasnt just about his robotic arm

players that hit 5-600 homeruns without battitng helmets = pure G's


i got willy mays/babe ruth both ahead of bonds

and a sh*t ton of guys ahead if we count his cheating against him


griffey was basically barry bonds without the roids. and he played a tougher position in center field with more ground to cover



griffey has 20 home run stealing over the wall catches. bonds has zero
Bonds was a far better hitter than Griffey bro. Not even the same category

[ShawkFactory]

Pete Rose is arguably the GOAT baseball player, but due to his gambling MLB wants to pretend he doesn't exist.
Not even close

[Legends66NBA7]

Arguably the most talented of all time... Injuries killed him

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/5688/354948-griffey_4.jpg

I remember old-timers say to me that Mickey Mantle was Griffey before Griffey.

[kshutts1]

What makes Jerry Rice the American football GOAT?

[ClipperRevival]

What makes Jerry Rice the American football GOAT?

His level of dominance. He was so much better than every other WR. He was just dominant from the get go and his longevity is unheard of for a WR. The NFL Network did a countdown to the GOAT and he was ranked #1, and I think rightfully so. Another huge factor was that he was unreal in the playoffs, especially the Superbowl. He was dominant in his 3 Superbowl appearances.

[GIF REACTION]

What makes Jerry Rice the American football GOAT?
20 years of sustained brilliance, multiple superbowl wins, superbowl MVP, and a plethora of other awards and records.

[ClipperRevival]

Rice might be the most dedicated and hard working athlete ever, right there with a guy like Kobe. He had an unreal desire to continue to work and maximize his talents.

Another thing that's impressive about Rice was that he didn't have eye popping athleticism like a Moss. He just left no stone unturned. He was the closest thing to a Michael Jordan of football along with Lawrence Taylor and Jim Brown.

[West-Side]

Rice and Jordan, didn't cheat.

[West-Side]

Pete Rose is arguably the GOAT baseball player, but due to his gambling MLB wants to pretend he doesn't exist.

Greatest hitter. ***
Not overall baseball player.

[GIF REACTION]

Bonds was innocent until proven guilty. He was never proved guilty.

[West-Side]

Rice might be the most dedicated and hard working athlete ever, right there with a guy like Kobe. He had an unreal desire to continue to work and maximize his talents.

Another thing that's impressive about Rice was that he didn't have eye popping athleticism like a Moss. He just left no stone unturned. He was the closest thing to a Michael Jordan of football along with Lawrence Taylor and Jim Brown.

His records are the most unbreakable in any sports, IMO.
Including Michael and Gretzky.

[GIF REACTION]

Bonds is the GOAT. Fact. Griffey doesn't even come close. You don't get points for being a jack of all trades but master of none. You don't get points for hypotheticals... "Oh but he was natural doe".... No. You get points for what you did in the game. Bonds was never proven guilty. There's bucketloads of steroids in the NFL, but no one cares.... Jordan took them. Lebron too. Kobe as well.

[kshutts1]

How does Rice's individual brilliance differ from that of Kareem or Wilt or Karl?

[West-Side]

Bonds is the GOAT. Fact. Griffey doesn't even come close. You don't get points for being a jack of all trades but master of none. You don't get points for hypotheticals... "Oh but he was natural doe".... No. You get points for what you did in the game. Bonds was never proven guilty. There's bucketloads of steroids in the NFL, but no one cares.... Jordan took them. Lebron too. Kobe as well.

What?

He was the best power hitter in the 90's (most HR's from 90 to 99).
He lead the decade in RBI's.
He had 10 gold gloves in 10 years (in the 90's).
He had the speed.
He had one of the strongest arms in baseball.

:roll:

****ing learn the sport bro.

[Lakers Fan]

Bonds and Rice are very questionable in regards to GOAT. There are several players that have legitimate arguments for GOAT in those sports. They are nowhere near as set in stone for that title like Jordan.

[ShawkFactory]

Greatest hitter. ***
Not overall baseball player.
Greatness at the plate stems from a combination of power and ability to get on base. While rose was an awesome player and an incredibly useful one to have on your team, he wasn't an all time great hitter like Ruth, Williams, Bonds, or even Pujols

[West-Side]

GIF REACTION:

1. Griffey was voted as the player of the decade in the 90's.
Check this out bro.

Griffey 1990 to 1999

1002 Runs
1622 Hits
297 2B
30 3B
382 HR
1091 RBI
151 SB
703 BB
.302 AVG
.384 OBP
.581 SLG
.965 OPS

1997 MVP
10x Gold Glove
10x All Star
7x Silver Slugger

Barry Bonds 1990 to 1999

1091 Runs
1478 Hits
299 2B
42 3B
361 HR
1076 RBI
343 SB
1146 BB
.302 AVG
.434 OBP
.602 SLG
1.036 OPS

3x NL MVP
8x Gold Glove
7x Silver Slugger
8x All-Star

Griffey


Barry Bonds may be the most controversial player in baseball history, but love him or hate him you can deny that he was one of the best to play the game. He was outstanding at the plate or in the field. He won the MVP in '90, '92, and '93, but also finished second in '91, fourth in '94, and fifth in '96 and '97. He led the league in on-base percentage '91-'93 and '95.


The Kid" was a sight to see. He came into the league and set it on fire. His athleticism and grace was unmatched. He was a true five tool player and one of the best all-around players to ever hit the field. Many believe him to have the best swing in baseball history and that's hard to argue; many also feel he could be the best defensive center-fielder of all time and his 10 Gold Gloves during the decade help support it.

[GIF REACTION]

What?

He was the best power hitter in the 90's (most HR's from 90 to 99).
He lead the decade in RBI's.
He had 10 gold gloves in 10 years (in the 90's).
He had the speed.
He had one of the strongest arms in baseball.

:roll:

****ing learn the sport bro.
Barry was the most walked hitter in the 90's. Fact.

[ShawkFactory]

GIF REACTION:

1. Griffey was voted as the player of the decade in the 90's.
Check this out bro.

Griffey 1990 to 1999

1002 Runs
1622 Hits
297 2B
30 3B
382 HR
1091 RBI
151 SB
703 BB
.302 AVG
.384 OBP
.581 SLG
.965 OPS

1997 MVP
10x Gold Glove
10x All Star
7x Silver Slugger

Barry Bonds 1990 to 1999

1091 Runs
1478 Hits
299 2B
42 3B
361 HR
1076 RBI
343 SB
1146 BB
.302 AVG
.434 OBP
.602 SLG
1.036 OPS

3x NL MVP
8x Gold Glove
7x Silver Slugger
8x All-Star

Griffey
You just showed that Bonds was the best player of the 90s :applause:

[GIF REACTION]

Regardless

Bonds SMOKED Griffey as soon as 2001 came around. Game over baby. GOAT mode activated.

[Nash]

Had to check the pic info to find out who the baseball guy is, that's how popular it is over here. Jerry Rice is known to people with interest in american football, but I thought football GOAT would be a QB since they get the biggest rep for rings unless a team is centered around a prime Ray Lewis caliber guy & his D.

So why isn't Montana GOAT?
:lol I honestly don't even know who both guys are. Football and baseball ain't shit over here in Europe.

[GIF REACTION]

Bonds got walked 120 times in ONE SEASON

And he still managed to hit 45 home runs.

[ShawkFactory]

GIF REACTION:

1. Griffey was voted as the player of the decade in the 90's.
Check this out bro.

Griffey 1990 to 1999

1002 Runs
1622 Hits
297 2B
30 3B
382 HR
1091 RBI
151 SB
703 BB
.302 AVG
.384 OBP
.581 SLG
.965 OPS

1997 MVP
10x Gold Glove
10x All Star
7x Silver Slugger

Barry Bonds 1990 to 1999

1091 Runs
1478 Hits
299 2B
42 3B
361 HR
1076 RBI
343 SB
1146 BB
.302 AVG
.434 OBP
.602 SLG
1.036 OPS

3x NL MVP
8x Gold Glove
7x Silver Slugger
8x All-Star

Griffey
You just showed that Bonds was the best player on the 90s :applause:

[ShawkFactory]

Bonds got walked 120 times in ONE SEASON

And he still managed to hit 45 home runs.
He was actually INTENTIONALLY walked 120 times. He was walked a total of 232 times. OBP of .610. Absolutely ludicrous.

[ClipperRevival]

We all know Bonds used steroids but so did pretty much everyone else in his era. And what I saw from Bonds starting from 2001, he is the best hitter to ever play the game and it's not even close. He put up video game type numbers.

[GIF REACTION]

He was actually INTENTIONALLY walked 120 times. He was walked a total of 232 times. OBP of .610. Absolutely ludicrous.
Yeah intentional that's what i meant. Insane. That's straight up fear.

[ClipperRevival]

Bonds was also once intentionally walked with the bases loaded. I think the only time in history that happened. The level of fear that the opposition showed for Bonds was unheard of, evidenced by his off the charts walks and intentional walks records.

[West-Side]

Barry was the most walked hitter in the 90's. Fact.

First 4 years - 21 HR a season average

Start of the 90's - when the steroid era start.

Next 5 years - 35 HR a season average
Next 5 years - 37.5 HR a season average
Next 5 years - 51.60 HR a season average

When MLB started actually testing players for steroids.

Last 2 years - 27 HR a season average.

But let me make things even interesting.

Total At Bats Minus Walks Divided By Home Runs.

This stats will tell us how often Bonds and Griffey hit a home-run excluding at bats when they took a walk.

Bonds - 9.57 at bats per home run. :applause:
Griffey - 13.47 at bats per home run.

In the 90's:

Griffey - 12.24 at bats per home run.
Bonds - 10.38 at bats per home run.

Bonds from 96' to 2004. The height of the steroid usage.
In fact the average pitcher ERA in those year was nearly 4.00.
Many consider Pedro's 99' campaign where his ERA was below 2.00 the greatest ever because the league average was 3.78. He was the ONLY player to have an ERA of not only below 2, but below 3. NO OTHER PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE HAD AN ERA BELOW 3 THAT YEAR.

Now, Bonds from 96' to 2004 had 411 home runs in 4078 at bats and 1371 walks. :wtf:

It only took him 6.59 at bats to hit a home run during that era.

Now lets take a look at their respective career HR's per at bat minus the walks.

Griffey - 13.47
Bonds - 9.57

During a 10 year span; it took him on average 6.59 at bats to hit a home run. Lets adjust these numbers shall we?

Career At Bats: 9847
Career HR: 762
Career Walks: 2558

It took Bonds 13.05 at bats to hit a home run.
That's assuming he never took steroids prior to 1996.

The fact that his home run totals increased by an average of 15 HR's a season starting in the early 90's makes it very difficult for me to believe.

Fact is, Barry Bond was 185 pounds when he entered the league; in 2001 (when he hit 73 home runs) his listed weight was 230 pounds.

Coincidentally known users like Sosa, McGuire and Rodriguez's body weight all increased at least 30 pounds from 1996 to 2001.

Griffey's body weight was 195 and he retired weighting 206.
Griffey is also 6'3 while Bonds 6'1.

[West-Side]

You just showed that Bonds was the best player on the 90s :applause:

Griffey was voted as the player of the decade. :oldlol:
He was a better fielder, power hitter.
Bonds had the speed advantage.

Both were the best of the decade, IMO.
However, Bond's career was tainted. The 90's was the beginning of the steroid era and his power numbers increased significantly at the beginning of the decade.

I'm sorry that raises many eyebrows.
Read the last post I wrote very carefully.

[West-Side]

Bonds was also once intentionally walked with the bases loaded. I think the only time in history that happened. The level of fear that the opposition showed for Bonds was unheard of, evidenced by his off the charts walks and intentional walks records.

The man hit a home-run every 6 at bats. :oldlol:
Anyone remember McGuire or Sosa before 1996?

I know McGuire played for the Oakland Athletics; he averaged 35 HR's a season his first 5 full seasons. He averaged 57.40 home runs his last 5 full seasons. :roll:

Sosa: 23.80 in first 5 full seasons.

After 1996 - 49.22 over 9 seasons. :roll:

Seriously, **** these cheaters.

[ArbitraryWater]

What does it mean to be 'walked' ?

And honestly, MJ isn't set in stone GOAT either with Kareem, Bron (3 THE MAN chips so far, 2015 doe).

[ShawkFactory]

Griffey was voted as the player of the decade. :oldlol:
He was a better fielder, power hitter.
Bonds had the speed advantage.

Both were the best of the decade, IMO.
However, Bond's career was tainted. The 90's was the beginning of the steroid era and his power numbers increased significantly at the beginning of the decade.

I'm sorry that raises many eyebrows.
Read the last post I wrote very carefully.
His numbers also increased his third year in the league, just like pretty much everyone's, including Griffey. Just because that coincided with the start of the 90s means nothing.

Just because he hit more bulk home runs doesn't make him the better power hitter. Bonds constantly had the higher slugging %. And he was just the better hitter in general. Not even all that close. Especially since he played half of his games in the best pitchers park in the entire league at the time. When adjusting for ballpark advantages his numbers are even farther away from Griffey's.

He had the defense. He probably one of the 3-4 best defensive center fielders of this generation.

The main factor in his being voted over Bonds is simply because he was likable. Bonds was an ass. And it's not like it's a no-brainier but Bonds was clearly better all-around at the plate (who won 7 GGs as well), was clearly better on the base paths, and was just an objectively overall more valuable player. Hence the 3 MVPs and 7 top 5 finishes compared to 1 and 5 respectively for Griffey. Plus, the advanced stats (WAR in particular) all show that Bonds was better as well.

Honestly, if it weren't for the defense this wouldn't even be close to a debate.

[pastis]

for me its:
1. Football (i mean the real football)
2. Basketball
3. Tennis


j'ai lol

[West-Side]

His numbers also increased his third year in the league, just like pretty much everyone's, including Griffey. Just because that coincided with the start of the 90s means nothing.

Just because he hit more bulk home runs doesn't make him the better power hitter. Bonds constantly had the higher slugging %. And he was just the better hitter in general. Not even all that close. Especially since he played half of his games in the best pitchers park in the entire league at the time. When adjusting for ballpark advantages his numbers are even farther away from Griffey's.

He had the defense. He probably one of the 3-4 best defensive center fielders of this generation.

The main factor in his being voted over Bonds is simply because he was likable. Bonds was an ass. And it's not like it's a no-brainier but Bonds was clearly better all-around at the plate (who won 7 GGs as well), was clearly better on the base paths, and was just an objectively overall more valuable player. Hence the 3 MVPs and 7 top 5 finishes compared to 1 and 5 respectively for Griffey. Plus, the advanced stats (WAR in particular) all show that Bonds was better as well.

Honestly, if it weren't for the defense this wouldn't even be close to a debate.

Griffey had at least THREE years better than Bond's 90' and 92' MVP seasons in the 90's. Fact is, in 98' not a single GM would have taken Bonds over Griffey. I'm not sure how old you are and if you actually watched baseball in the 90's but until the steroids era; it wasn't Bonds who was on pace to shatter every record set by Hank Aaron, it was Griffey. Before Griffey's injuries and Bonds clear setroids usage; no GM considered taking Bonds over Griffey.

Bonds was always a more disciplined hitter at the plate and was a better base runner, no doubt about it. It's hard for me to properly evaluate by how much better Griffey was in terms of power, fielding and contact but he WAS better. I really could give a rats ass about Bond's SLG%; it's impossible for us to say if it was done legitimately.

But that's why he probably used steroids;

1) Because he knew people like you down the line will forget it and only remember his numbers.
2) His increased production would give him more money and prolong his career.

[ShawkFactory]

Griffey had at least THREE years better than Bond's 90' and 92' MVP seasons in the 90's. Fact is, in 98' not a single GM would have taken Bonds over Griffey. I'm not sure how old you are and if you actually watched baseball in the 90's but until the steroids era; it wasn't Bonds who was on pace to shatter every record set by Hank Aaron, it was Griffey. Before Griffey's injuries and Bonds clear setroids usage; no GM considered taking Bonds over Griffey.

Bonds was always a more disciplined hitter at the plate and was a better base runner, no doubt about it. It's hard for me to properly evaluate by how much better Griffey was in terms of power, fielding and contact but he WAS better. I really could give a rats ass about Bond's SLG%; it's impossible for us to say if it was done legitimately.

But that's why he probably used steroids;

1) Because he knew people like you down the line will forget it and only remember his numbers.
2) His increased production would give him more money and prolong his career.
Dude, even the biggest Bonds detractors know he didn't start using until the very end of the decade. Why would his numbers go up so dramatically and blatantly at one time..past his prime?

And it's very arguable that Griffey ever had a season better than Bonds in 92. Would have easily been 40-40 if he hadn't missed 20 games. Led the league in on base, slugging, and OPS+ (ballpark adjusted). Griffey played in a hitters park in the 90s. It's like the difference between playing at Petco and playing at Coors today (or close to it). Significant advantage for Griffey.

If you want to discredit his early 90s play by his later steroid use then that's fine I guess. If you also want to use pure bulk HR numbers as to Griffey being a better hitter then that's also fine. Though I don't think you understand that if Bonds was content to just try and hit home runs instead of putting together good at bats every time he could have hit 50 whenever he wanted..

But I personally would take 35 home runs with a 460 On base and a boat load of steals over 50 home runs and a 380 with not many. You're putting your team in a better position on a day-to-day basis that way. Plate discipline is a HUGE part of hitting. I don't know how you can say Griffey was a better contact hitter. He was better solely at putting the ball over the fence. And that's it. And as I argued before, THATS even arguable...since hitting home runs was Griffey's niche while getting on base was Bonds'.

And yea I know all about 90s baseball. It was an awesome, and sometimes heartbreaking, time to be a diehard Braves fan. Griffey was the media darling, and a great player on a team with other young superstars as well. Bonds was just better.

[KirbyPls]

Arguably the most talented of all time... Injuries killed him

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/5688/354948-griffey_4.jpg

My Favorite player ever. :applause:

Bonds was still a better all-around player pre-roids though.

[LoneyROY7]

No one gives a shit about baseball other than ESPN. And that's coming from someone who likes the sport.

[christian1923]

Mike trout. That kid will probably be top 10 if he stays healthy.

[GIF REACTION]

How ****ing cool was a Bonds Bomb into the water... "DEEP to right field! This one's on it's way to McCovey cove!"

[West-Side]

Dude, even the biggest Bonds detractors know he didn't start using until the very end of the decade. Why would his numbers go up so dramatically and blatantly at one time..past his prime?

And it's very arguable that Griffey ever had a season better than Bonds in 92. Would have easily been 40-40 if he hadn't missed 20 games. Led the league in on base, slugging, and OPS+ (ballpark adjusted). Griffey played in a hitters park in the 90s. It's like the difference between playing at Petco and playing at Coors today (or close to it). Significant advantage for Griffey.

If you want to discredit his early 90s play by his later steroid use then that's fine I guess. If you also want to use pure bulk HR numbers as to Griffey being a better hitter then that's also fine. Though I don't think you understand that if Bonds was content to just try and hit home runs instead of putting together good at bats every time he could have hit 50 whenever he wanted..

But I personally would take 35 home runs with a 460 On base and a boat load of steals over 50 home runs and a 380 with not many. You're putting your team in a better position on a day-to-day basis that way. Plate discipline is a HUGE part of hitting. I don't know how you can say Griffey was a better contact hitter. He was better solely at putting the ball over the fence. And that's it. And as I argued before, THATS even arguable...since hitting home runs was Griffey's niche while getting on base was Bonds'.

And yea I know all about 90s baseball. It was an awesome, and sometimes heartbreaking, time to be a diehard Braves fan. Griffey was the media darling, and a great player on a team with other young superstars as well. Bonds was just better.

Not according to the players, analysts, managers and GM's that vote for Griffey as the player of the decade. But I guess you'll just use the "he was a media darling excuse."

I also love how you're trying to make Bonds seem better because he got on base more; yet ignoring Griffey's clearly superior fielding ability and arm. And no, just because Bonds won 7 GG's doesn't mean he was close to Griffey. I don't give a **** about GG's; that's not why I think he was clearly superior. He was arguably the greatest fielding CF's of all-time; the opinions of a lot of experts. His 10 for 10 in GG's to begin his career doesn't even do him justice. The guy had an absolute cannon of an arm; where he literally won GAMES because of his arm. He was extremely clutch at the plate as well. The fact that Griffey was considered by almost everyone the better baseball player when he won his first MVP in 97' tells me everything I needed to know.

I find it amusing how this skinny ass player; who was incredibly talented and didn't need to tarnish his career, slowly started to gain mass muscle around the 94' season. He went from 185 to 195 to 210 to 230 (during his 2002 season). And it wasn't FAT, it was lean muscle. Griffey never had such a dramatic transformation. Any idiot with a decent eye sight can tell you that Bonds was cheating. The saddest thing about him is that he had the talent to be as good as Griffey. Both were superstars in their respective conferences. Griffey was a 5-tool player and so was Bonds. I will never give the same respect to Barry as I do to Ken, and many fans who appreciate integrity feel the same way I do.

You're also a damn Braves fan; so you obviously watched Bonds play more since he was a NL player his entire career. Griffey became an NL player once he became injury riddled.

1992 Bonds: .311 BA, .456 OBP, 34 HR, 134 RBI, 129 Runs, 181 Hits, 38 2B, 4 3B, .624 SLG

I'm not even going to list his 1990 MVP season because it was easily worse.

Griffey:

(1996) .303 BA, .392 OBP, 49 HR, 140 RBI, 125 Runs, 165 Hits, 26 2B, 2 3B, .628 SLG

(1998) .284 BA, .365 OBP, 56 HR, 146 RBI, 120 Runs, 180 Hits, 33 2B, 3 3B, .611 SLG

(1999) .285 BA, .384 OBP, 48 HR, 134 RBI, 123 Runs, 173 Hits, 26 2B, 3 3B, .576 SLG

I won't even mention his 1993 campaign or his 1994 (where he had 40 home runs in 111 games and had a slugging % of .674).

The point you bring about base running and OBP is irrelevant as well. All you have to do is see how many runs they produce for their teams. Barry in 92' had 129 runs and 134 RBI's (in 1990 he had 104 runs and 114 RBI's). That means in 92' he contributed to 263 runs for his team and in 90' he contributed 218.

1993 - 222
1994 - 184 (in 111 games)
1996 - 265
1998 - 266
1999 - 257

Again, Griffey did not win the MVP award in any of those 5 seasons playing in the AL. Yet in 4/5 of those years he directly contributed more to his team (in terms of total runs).

Now I'm not denying that Barry Bonds deserved the MVP awards those years; but Griffey had 7/8 those type of years in a 10 year span. I think you're underrating how great the man was.

You say because Bonds gets on base far more and is a far better runner; what does that mean exactly? Isn't the point of a batter: to drive in runs and score yourself. What's the point of getting on base and stealing bases if you don't end up scoring runs? Griffey did that just fine; in fact their career numbers are very similar despite one's a cheater and the other was injury riddled.

You can call him a media darling all you want but he was in the media for good reasons. He played the game with integrity; was a great role model; showed love & enthusiasm for the game and never used steroids.

Period.

[ShawkFactory]

Not according to the players, analysts, managers and GM's that vote for Griffey as the player of the decade. But I guess you'll just use the "he was a media darling excuse."

I also love how you're trying to make Bonds seem better because he got on base more; yet ignoring Griffey's clearly superior fielding ability and arm. And no, just because Bonds won 7 GG's doesn't mean he was close to Griffey. I don't give a **** about GG's; that's not why I think he was clearly superior. He was arguably the greatest fielding CF's of all-time; the opinions of a lot of experts. His 10 for 10 in GG's to begin his career doesn't even do him justice. The guy had an absolute cannon of an arm; where he literally won GAMES because of his arm. He was extremely clutch at the plate as well. The fact that Griffey was considered by almost everyone the better baseball player when he won his first MVP in 97' tells me everything I needed to know.

I find it amusing how this skinny ass player; who was incredibly talented and didn't need to tarnish his career, slowly started to gain mass muscle around the 94' season. He went from 185 to 195 to 210 to 230 (during his 2002 season). And it wasn't FAT, it was lean muscle. Griffey never had such a dramatic transformation. Any idiot with a decent eye sight can tell you that Bonds was cheating. The saddest thing about him is that he had the talent to be as good as Griffey. Both were superstars in their respective conferences. Griffey was a 5-tool player and so was Bonds. I will never give the same respect to Barry as I do to Ken, and many fans who appreciate integrity feel the same way I do.

You're also a damn Braves fan; so you obviously watched Bonds play more since he was a NL player his entire career. Griffey became an NL player once he became injury riddled.

1992 Bonds: .311 BA, .456 OBP, 34 HR, 134 RBI, 129 Runs, 181 Hits, 38 2B, 4 3B, .624 SLG

I'm not even going to list his 1990 MVP season because it was easily worse.

Griffey:

(1996) .303 BA, .392 OBP, 49 HR, 140 RBI, 125 Runs, 165 Hits, 26 2B, 2 3B, .628 SLG

(1998) .284 BA, .365 OBP, 56 HR, 146 RBI, 120 Runs, 180 Hits, 33 2B, 3 3B, .611 SLG

(1999) .285 BA, .384 OBP, 48 HR, 134 RBI, 123 Runs, 173 Hits, 26 2B, 3 3B, .576 SLG

I won't even mention his 1993 campaign or his 1994 (where he had 40 home runs in 111 games and had a slugging % of .674).

The point you bring about base running and OBP is irrelevant as well. All you have to do is see how many runs they produce for their teams. Barry in 92' had 129 runs and 134 RBI's (in 1990 he had 104 runs and 114 RBI's). That means in 92' he contributed to 263 runs for his team and in 90' he contributed 218.

1993 - 222
1994 - 184 (in 111 games)
1996 - 265
1998 - 266
1999 - 257

Again, Griffey did not win the MVP award in any of those 5 seasons playing in the AL. Yet in 4/5 of those years he directly contributed more to his team (in terms of total runs).

Now I'm not denying that Barry Bonds deserved the MVP awards those years; but Griffey had 7/8 those type of years in a 10 year span. I think you're underrating how great the man was.

You say because Bonds gets on base far more and is a far better runner; what does that mean exactly? Isn't the point of a batter: to drive in runs and score yourself. What's the point of getting on base and stealing bases if you don't end up scoring runs? Griffey did that just fine; in fact their career numbers are very similar despite one's a cheater and the other was injury riddled.

You can call him a media darling all you want but he was in the media for good reasons. He played the game with integrity; was a great role model; showed love & enthusiasm for the game and never used steroids.

Period.
Don't have time to formulate a full response so I'll just say a few things.

Not hating an Griffey or trying to deny his greatness. However, getting on base can both indirectly lead to runs for other players and just is a sign of a superior hitter. And much like a wide receiver, scoring runs and RBId are statistics dependent on teammates, both to get on base before you and drive you in after. On base and slugging are individual stats. They show ones ability to both be disciplined at the plate and to drive balls consistently, the most fundamentally important aspects of hitting.

Also, Andrue Jones > Griffey defensively

[West-Side]

Don't have time to formulate a full response so I'll just say a few things.

Not hating an Griffey or trying to deny his greatness. However, getting on base can both indirectly lead to runs for other players and just is a sign of a superior hitter. And much like a wide receiver, scoring runs and RBId are statistics dependent on teammates, both to get on base before you and drive you in after. On base and slugging are individual stats. They show ones ability to both be disciplined at the plate and to drive balls consistently, the most fundamentally important aspects of hitting.

Also, Andrue Jones > Griffey defensively

Andrew Jones was exceptional; so was Jim Edmonds, yet Griffey was considered by majority as the best defensive CF. But I can respect your bias opinion, Braves fan. Let me guess Maddux is the best SP ever; Chipper was the best 3B ever and Rocker was the best closer, right?

Anyways; I'm glad you brought up teammates.

From 90 - 99': Pit and SF on average had 85 wins and scored 7411 runs.
From 90 - 99': Sea on average had 76 wins and score 7756 runs.

Hardly a big difference. Bonds had a shit load of great batters around him as well. :oldlol: If they actually had a DH; I'm sure his team would have scored more runs than Seattle during that decade.

Griffey contributed 27% of all those runs in the 90's.
Bonds contributed 29% of all those runs in the 90's.

So his significantly higher OBP didn't make that much of a difference; but it gets better, if you adjust for actual games PLAYED, Griffey jumps to 31.45% and Bonds to 30.99%.

:rolleyes:

The way I calculated that was use their RBI's and runs for the 10 year period and divided by the total runs scored by their respective teams.

Griffey's team won over 90 games ONCE; Bonds team won it 5 times (and won 89 games once). So please spare me the whole "teammates matter" argument. Griffey did have slightly better batters around him but it's not like Bonds didn't play with incredible talent as well. Especially on those Pittsburgh teams.

The year he won the MVP his team won 95, 98 and 103 games. The year Griffey won Seattle won 90.

Bonds consistently had better rosters around him.

[Joyner82reload]

Is this a joke? Ruth is EASILY the GOAT baseball player. He was basically the equivalent of putting current LeBron or Durant in college basketball.

[KG215]

Bonds is the GOAT. Fact. Griffey doesn't even come close. You don't get points for being a jack of all trades but master of none. You don't get points for hypotheticals... "Oh but he was natural doe".... No. You get points for what you did in the game. Bonds was never proven guilty. There's bucketloads of steroids in the NFL, but no one cares.... Jordan took them. Lebron too. Kobe as well.
You should probably learn the definition of "fact" before you use it so confidently.

[West-Side]

Lets not forget to put a giant asterisk next to Bonds.
I know the clown used steroids in the 90's and Griffey still was at the very least as good as him. :applause:

It pisses me off that historic talent like Rodriguez and Bonds ruined their legacy by cheating. Their production would have been smaller but at least their legacy wouldn't be tainted.

Shaking my head.

[GIF REACTION]

73 home runs. One season. God mode.

45 home runs. 120 intentional walks. One season. God mode.

Barry GOAT Bonds.

[ShawkFactory]

Andrew Jones was exceptional; so was Jim Edmonds, yet Griffey was considered by majority as the best defensive CF. But I can respect your bias opinion, Braves fan. Let me guess Maddux is the best SP ever; Chipper was the best 3B ever and Rocker was the best closer, right?

Anyways; I'm glad you brought up teammates.

From 90 - 99': Pit and SF on average had 85 wins and scored 7411 runs.
From 90 - 99': Sea on average had 76 wins and score 7756 runs.

Hardly a big difference. Bonds had a shit load of great batters around him as well. :oldlol: If they actually had a DH; I'm sure his team would have scored more runs than Seattle during that decade.

Griffey contributed 27% of all those runs in the 90's.
Bonds contributed 29% of all those runs in the 90's.

So his significantly higher OBP didn't make that much of a difference; but it gets better, if you adjust for actual games PLAYED, Griffey jumps to 31.45% and Bonds to 30.99%.

:rolleyes:

The way I calculated that was use their RBI's and runs for the 10 year period and divided by the total runs scored by their respective teams.

Griffey's team won over 90 games ONCE; Bonds team won it 5 times (and won 89 games once). So please spare me the whole "teammates matter" argument. Griffey did have slightly better batters around him but it's not like Bonds didn't play with incredible talent as well. Especially on those Pittsburgh teams.

The year he won the MVP his team won 95, 98 and 103 games. The year Griffey won Seattle won 90.

Bonds consistently had better rosters around him.
Were just gonna have to agree to disagree on Bonds/Griffey.

But Andruw was absolutely widely considered to be the best there was. Look at their metrics. Andruw blows Griffey, and everyone else, away. His instincts and range were simply off the charts. I love my Braves but I can be objective. When he was coming up, people around the league were questioning if there had ever been a better defensive CF.

Similar to Simmons being compared to Ozzie right now

[West-Side]

Were just gonna have to agree to disagree on Bonds/Griffey.

But Andruw was absolutely widely considered to be the best there was. Look at their metrics. Andruw blows Griffey, and everyone else, away. His instincts and range were simply off the charts. I love my Braves but I can be objective. When he was coming up, people around the league were questioning if there had ever been a better defensive CF.

Similar to Simmons being compared to Ozzie right now

:cheers: Nice to have a level-headed discussion for a change on this forum. You definitely brought good points to the table; it's very difficult to objectively compare their numbers even in the 90's due to steroids though. You can't give me 100% assurance that Bonds was clean from 90' to 99' and yet Griffey's production was very similar. I know Bonds is historically in the top 5 player list and Griffey (due to injuries) won't even crack top 30; but in terms of peak play and integrity, I think Griffey is the best ever considering the man was a complete 5-tool player.

Regarding Andrew; I'll take your word for it. I know he was the best defensive CF in the NL his entire career and I watched many Braves games but probably not nearly as much as you have. A.Jones was exceptional; made a highlight reel play look ordinary. So I'll take your word for it.

Repped for your insight, cheers!!

[GIF REACTION]

How do you know Griffey was clean? You don't.

How do you know Bonds used steroids? You don't.

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. There are systems put in place in society. We can't go around speculating like this. It is unlawful.

[West-Side]

How do you know Griffey was clean? You don't.

How do you know Bonds used steroids? You don't.

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. There are systems put in place in society. We can't go around speculating like this. It is unlawful.

Because he admitted to using an illegal substance and than blamed his trainer. :hammerhead:

Griffey was tested in the early 00's and passed. :hammerhead:



It is to be hoped in the near future that the reputation of baseball can be separated from the cloud of performance enhancing drugs, in other words steroids. A scandal about drug use pops up in every sport or with celebrities regularly, however with steroids and baseball it seems as if it is ongoing and ever growing. Barry Bonds before and after steroidsLet a baseball player hit a homerun and any crowd reacts (or almost any). Let a baseball player such as Barry Bonds break the lifetime home run record of a sports icon such as Hank Aaron with ease and then he goes from a great to a legend that will be spoken of for years to come. That is certainly the case with Barry Bonds, however, his record-breaking all-time homerun record of 2007 and his single season record of 73 in 2001.
Barry Bonds, however, is also under the cloud of suspicion because of the Balco scandal. He was charged with perjury and obstruction of justice in the matter of his testimony in the Balco steroid affair. That Barry Bonds took anabolics there is no question the court has documents and tests stating that three types of performance enhancing substances were found in his tests. His response is that he took these on the advice of his trainer and had no idea they were steroids. Did Barry Bonds think he was only taking testosterone supplements?
buy anabolic steroids
Fans take widely opposing stances on the topic of Barry Bonds and steroid use. Some support this baseball great and say that he has always been a good player and that working out and eating helped him develop the muscles and power he achieved in his mid-30s. On the other side of the coin, other fans say you would have to be blind to not see the incredible changes in him over a short period and the fact that as he aged his homerun records improved doubling in averages over a period of a few years.
Barry Bonds stands firmly behind his statement that he was given performance enhancing drugs without his knowledge and used what he thought was flax seed oil and a cream to help ease muscle aches. The court did not seem to believe him; hence, he faces perjury charges that will be hard to prove.
What is perhaps of more concern to fans than Barry Bonds' legal woes is how to regard his all time league record, whether or not any of his accomplishments should stand, because knowingly or not he did this with chemical assistance. That is not a question for the courts but for the officials and fans. That an athlete on drugs broke one of the most cherished records in baseball offended some and clouded not only Barry Bonds’ accomplishment but also many people’s faith in baseball.
Baseball is making an effort to clean up but this particular leftover from the steroid era of baseball stands as testimony to some serious mistakes by both players and policy makers in major league baseball. Barry Bonds had an outstanding career and was an unbelievably talented player; it seems a shame that the stigma of steroids should touch such a great athlete. Now instead, when people hear the word baseball, instead of thinking homeruns, they think baseball steroids.

http://www.barrybondssteroids.net/bondsbeforeandaftersteroids.jpg

[Megabox!]

Isn't it funny that the GOAT's of each of the three major sports came in around the same time? Jordan in 85, Rice in 85, Bonds in 86. A special timeframe in sports, connecting the old eras to the modern. The rise of PED's, before over exposure and media scrutiny against them. Pre internet age.
This.....is actually pretty true

[Megabox!]

Didn't Jerry Rice use some illegal stickum on his gloves to make catching much easier?

[West-Side]

Didn't Jerry Rice use some illegal stickum on his gloves to make catching much easier?

Yep, and he also said that "everyone uses them." He accused Beckham Jr. of using it. I even remember Cris Carter basically calling Rice a cheater.

[GIF REACTION]

Michael Jordan used growth and steroids

[West-Side]

Michael Jordan used growth and steroids

Just stop it; unless you have evidence stop accusing athletes like Jordan and Griffey of using illegal substances. Unlike Bonds; these men played the game with integrity.

You don't think huge icons like those two would be under the spotlight if it was true? I have never heard this from anyone but you.

[GIF REACTION]

Just stop it; unless you have evidence stop accusing athletes like Jordan and Griffey of using illegal substances. Unlike Bonds; these men played the game with integrity.

You don't think huge icons like those two would be under the spotlight if it was true? I have never heard this from anyone but you.
Because you have minimal knowledge of steroids, peptides and synthetic hormone usage. To anyone who knows ANYTHING about it knows Jordan used. It's clear as day.

[christian1923]

Just cause a player didn't fail a test it doesn't mean they didn't use. Users are always ahead of the testers. AROD never failed a test. They had to go on a witch hunt to catch that man.

[West-Side]

Just cause a player didn't fail a test it doesn't mean they didn't use. Users are always ahead of the testers. AROD never failed a test. They had to go on a witch hunt to catch that man.

When people try to convince me that other legends cheated without any proof whatsoever; I know deep down, you guys are really butt hurt.

If I don't have much knowledge about steroids; than why don't you enlighten me? Provide some references to your accusations. No one considers MJ or Griffey's career "tainted" because their body and production didn't considerably transform almost over a year.

Sosa and McGuire are known steroids users; look at their statistics. Their production increased in proportion to how Bonds's production did.

[GIF REACTION]

Lesson 1: Everyone mentions how Bonds head grew in size. They said it was due to the steroids. Incorrect. It was from HGH usage. Jordan had the same frontal brow growth that Bonds did, just not to the same extent. Many factors are involved aka dosage/genetics/IGF-1 Receptors/etc

[ShawkFactory]

Lesson 1: Everyone mentions how Bonds head grew in size. They said it was due to the steroids. Incorrect. It was from HGH usage. Jordan had the same frontal brow growth that Bonds did, just not to the same extent. Many factors are involved aka dosage/genetics/IGF-1 Receptors/etc
Dude, the fact that Bonds hit 73 home runs as a 37 year old man when his previous career high was 49 (as a 36 year old man) doesn't raise ANY questions? He was juicing...it's common knowledge.

[West-Side]

Dude, the fact that Bonds hit 73 home runs as a 37 year old man when his previous career high was 49 (as a 36 year old man) doesn't raise ANY questions? He was juicing...it's common knowledge.

Than proceeded to hit 45+ in his next 3/4 years. :oldlol:
At ages 38, 39, and 40.

Like I mentioned previously; Barry hit a homerun every 6 at bats after the age of 35. I calculated that by using his total at bats minus the walks and divided by his HR totals.

I think that's a pretty accurate way to calculate his home run prowess considering the man was intentionally walked all the time.

[ShawkFactory]

Than proceeded to hit 45+ in his next 3/4 years. :oldlol:
At ages 38, 39, and 40.

Like I mentioned previously; Barry hit a homerun every 6 at bats after the age of 35. I calculated that by using his total at bats minus the walks and divided by his HR totals.

I think that's a pretty accurate way to calculate his home run prowess considering the man was intentionally walked all the time.
I forget which year but he once had 45 HRs and like 90 RBIs...

He got walked...so much. Probably would have hit 60+ every one of those years if he didn't regularly get walked 2-3 times a game.

[KendrickPerkins]

Bonds in the early 2000s was the most feared hitter in history, bar none.

Most beautiful swing I've ever seen. The way the ball POPPED off his bat still gives me chills to this very day.

GOAT.

[West-Side]

I forget which year but he once had 45 HRs and like 90 RBIs...

He got walked...so much. Probably would have hit 60+ every one of those years if he didn't regularly get walked 2-3 times a game.

All 5 years from 2000 to 2004; his at bat per home run on average was 6.
That's why I subtracted his walks for those years. I know to get a more accurate reflection of his prowess, I should have only subtracted his intentional walks but regardless; 6 at bats per home run is insanity.

To put things in perspective; in those 5 years from ages 36 to 40.

- If he had 0 walks
- If he was fully healthy, played all 162 games for those 5 years.
- Had 4 at bats a game

He would have hit 108 home runs a season.
:rolleyes:

[ShawkFactory]

All 5 years from 2000 to 2004; his at bat per home run on average was 6.
That's why I subtracted his walks for those years. I know to get a more accurate reflection of his prowess, I should have only subtracted his intentional walks but regardless; 6 at bats per home run is insanity.

To put things in perspective; in those 5 years from ages 36 to 40.

- If he had 0 walks
- If he was fully healthy, played all 162 games for those 5 years.
- Had 4 at bats a game

He would have hit 108 home runs a season.
:rolleyes:
Well you never know, because plenty of the walks that weren't intentional by the book...were actually intentional. They weren't messing with him. Bonds was rarely accidentally walked.

[GIF REACTION]

All 5 years from 2000 to 2004; his at bat per home run on average was 6.
That's why I subtracted his walks for those years. I know to get a more accurate reflection of his prowess, I should have only subtracted his intentional walks but regardless; 6 at bats per home run is insanity.

To put things in perspective; in those 5 years from ages 36 to 40.

- If he had 0 walks
- If he was fully healthy, played all 162 games for those 5 years.
- Had 4 at bats a game

He would have hit 108 home runs a season.
:rolleyes:
GOAT.

[KendrickPerkins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jdOCQG1Mfs

Magical.

[West-Side]

GOAT.

GOAT cheater, yes.

Age 21 to 30 (pre 1996)

5020 AB, 931 BB & 292 home runs
14.00 at bats per home run

Age 31 to 42 (post 1996)

4827 AB, 1627 BB, 470 HR
6.81 at bats per home run

:roll:

Yeah he was "clean"...suuuuure.

[GIF REACTION]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jdOCQG1Mfs

Magical.
G0AT.

[KendrickPerkins]

GOAT cheater, yes.

Age 21 to 30 (pre 1996)

5020 AB, 931 BB & 292 home runs
14.00 at bats per home run

Age 31 to 42 (post 1996)

4827 AB, 1627 BB, 470 HR
6.81 at bats per home run

:roll:

Yeah he was "clean"...suuuuure.
Yawn.

73 home runs. Bitch.

No one will ever come close to breaking that record, ever.

Put Bryce on all the steroids known to mankind and he won't sniff 60.

Bonds was a different breed. There can only be one GOAT, and it's Bond. Barry Bond.

[GIF REACTION]

Yawn.

73 home runs. Bitch.

No one will ever come close to breaking that record, ever.

Put Bryce on all the steroids known to mankind and he won't sniff 60.

Bonds was a different breed. There can only be one GOAT, and it's Bond. Barry Bond.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

GOAT.

[Bernkastel]

People still biting this low level bait?

[christian1923]

When people try to convince me that other legends cheated without any proof whatsoever; I know deep down, you guys are really butt hurt.

If I don't have much knowledge about steroids; than why don't you enlighten me? Provide some references to your accusations. No one considers MJ or Griffey's career "tainted" because their body and production didn't considerably transform almost over a year.

Sosa and McGuire are known steroids users; look at their statistics. Their production increased in proportion to how Bonds's production did.
Im not accusing anyone. i'm just saying, you never know. the culture of baseball was different. You don't want to bash users and then one day it comes up that your guy was actually using also.

[kennethgriffin]

why are people comparing the numbers of a cheater to a clean athlete


griffey on roids with an extra 30 pounds of muscle probly hits 85 homeruns in a season and 900 lifetime


infact he was on pace for 800 before injuries

[West-Side]

McGuire

Pre-1996: 3342 AB, 585 BB & 238 HR
11.58 AB per home run

Post-1996: 3385 AB, 833 BB & 403 HR
6.33 AB per home run

Sosa

Pre-1996: 2500 AB, 151 BB & 99 HR
23.73 AB per HR

Post-1996: 6496 AB, 789 BB & 514 HR
11.10 AB per HR

Rodriguez
Before Getting Caught:

7664 AB, 931 BB, 548 HR
12.21 AB per HR

After Getting Caught:
1958 AB, 260 BB, 84 HR
20.21 AB per HR


Steroids is a wonderful thing guys; you all should continue to praise obvious cheaters and men who ruined the history of baseball forever.

[GIF REACTION]

Steroids SAVED Baseball you idiot.

[West-Side]

Griffey's career at bat per home run is an incredible 13.47; considering he did it clean.

[kennethgriffin]

skinny griffey had 40 home runs in just 111 games back in 1994

he woulda been the first guy to break roger marris's record had there not been a stike

[KendrickPerkins]

why are people comparing the numbers of a cheater to a clean athlete


griffey on roids with an extra 30 pounds of muscle probly hits 85 homeruns in a season and 900 lifetime


infact he was on pace for 800 before injuries
Those injuries are linked to long time steroid use...

His body broke down after 30. That doesn't just happen unless someone has been using for a very long time. Look at A-Rod... dudes body started breaking down after we found out what he was up to, or should I say the rest of America. (I always knew he was juicing, it was obvious)

I'm a Griffey fan too but you have no idea what you're talking about, per usual.

Wake up dude.

[West-Side]

Those injuries are linked to long time steroid use...

His body broke down after 30.

I'm a Griffey fan too but you have no idea what you're talking about, per usual.

Steroids prevent injuries you moron.
That's why Sosa struggled with injuries early in his career before he started taking them. :oldlol:

That's why Jose Conseco said he took them for increased production AND to prevent injuries. :facepalm

Griffey became injury riddled because he refused to cheat the game.

[West-Side]

Those injuries are linked to long time steroid use...

His body broke down after 30. That doesn't just happen unless someone has been using for a very long time. Look at A-Rod... dudes body started breaking down after we found out what he was up to, or should I say the rest of America. (I always knew he was juicing, it was obvious)

I'm a Griffey fan too but you have no idea what you're talking about, per usual.

Wake up dude.

Do you understand how badly you just contradicted yourself? :lol

Alex Rodriguez started to become "injured" after he was caught taking illegal substances, so he stopped. Hence why all the sudden he started to get injuries.

Griffey never took them; hence, why the 2nd half of his career was ruined due to injuries.

[KendrickPerkins]

Steroids prevent injuries you moron.
That's why Sosa struggled with injuries early in his career before he started taking them. :oldlol:

That's why Jose Conseco said he took them for increased production AND to prevent injuries. :facepalm

Griffey became injury riddled because he refused to cheat the game.
You don't even know that LONG TERM steroid use will eventually create injuries?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

What shortbus did your adoptive mother find you at? I want a retard too.

[kennethgriffin]

Steroids SAVED Baseball you idiot.


griffey was the poster boy of the 90's.. and he was clean




he was infinitely more popular than bonds was

http://static01.nyt.com/images/2011/12/24/arts/JP-ALLSTAR/JP-ALLSTAR-articleLarge-v2.jpg

http://img.gamefaqs.net/box/1/3/4/24134_front.jpg

http://img.gamefaqs.net/box/5/6/0/4560_front.jpg

http://img.gamefaqs.net/box/1/3/6/24136_front.jpg

http://img.gamefaqs.net/box/8/1/6/50816_front.jpg

http://img.gamefaqs.net/box/9/4/2/4942_front.jpg

http://img.gamefaqs.net/box/5/5/9/4559_front.jpg


http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/jordan1.jpg

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wk2KnkDbI0c/hqdefault.jpg

[GIF REACTION]

Steroids help muscular recovery but the problem is that the muscle grows faster than the connective tissue, ligaments and tendons. It has happened so many times. Guys have torn ligaments because of overly dominant muscle

[KendrickPerkins]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9934411

Rest in piss, West-side.

Thanks for playing.

Bye felicia.

[GIF REACTION]

Imagine the forces on the joints/ligaments from pitching, fielding, throwing, batting for HUNDREDS of games a year

[GIF REACTION]

It's why you need to take HGH with steroids as an athlete. HGH grows literally EVERY tissue in the body. Joints, organs, tendons, ligaments, etc.

[KendrickPerkins]

Posted the wrong link. Doesn't matter.

I still win.

It's basic common knowledge that long term steroid use is an absolute DISASTER for the body.

Look what happened to Griffey Jr.

Saw the dude the other day in the drive thru. He looks awful.

[kennethgriffin]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9934411

Rest in piss, West-side.

Thanks for playing.

Bye felicia.


so because griffey tore a muscle hes automatically on steroids

even though he was tested and wasnt linked to anything/was a line drive hitter/ first few rows homerun guy most of his life. was never named in any investigation or by jose canseco, never called into questioning by the grand jury. was never muscular. had a crisp non power like smooth swing.




but he got injured so hes on roids?

lol... griffey was injury prone because he tore his hamstring and it never healed right. then when he got paid by the reds he got lazy and fat in jis old age.

[KendrickPerkins]

skinny griffey had 40 home runs in just 111 games back in 1994

he woulda been the first guy to break roger marris's record had there not been a stike
You know who else is skinny? Ryan Braun.

Steroids don't automatically make you a gorilla beast. Griffey was born with shitty muscular genetics, but it doesn't mean he wasn't on the juice, because he was, just like 80% of the league at the time.

God damn you kids are naive. And just flat out ****ing stupid. No common sense.

[GIF REACTION]

You know who else is skinny? Ryan Braun.

Steroids don't automatically make you a gorilla beast. Griffey was born with shitty muscular genetics, but it doesn't mean he wasn't on the juice, because he was, just like 80% of the league at the time.

God damn you kids are naive. And just flat out ****ing stupid. No common sense.
This.

There are 150 pound MMA fighters and weight class powerlifters on gear.

[West-Side]

You don't even know that LONG TERM steroid use will eventually create injuries?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

What shortbus did your adoptive mother find you at? I want a retard too.

Read.

[QUOTE]Reliever Ryan Madson missed all of 2012 after Tommy John surgery, but signed with the Angels expecting to be healthy to begin the season. It hasn't happened, and he doesn't seem much closer. So he wonders, "If HGH were legal..."

Madson is 14 months removed from surgery

[kennethgriffin]

You know who else is skinny? Ryan Braun.

Steroids don't automatically make you a gorilla beast. Griffey was born with shitty muscular genetics, but it doesn't mean he wasn't on the juice, because he was, just like 80% of the league at the time.

God damn you kids are naive. And just flat out ****ing stupid. No common sense.


griffey was tested though.

:lol

[West-Side]

so because griffey tore a muscle hes automatically on steroids

even though he was tested and wasnt linked to anything/was a line drive hitter/ first few rows homerun guy most of his life. was never named in any investigation or by jose canseco, never called into questioning by the grand jury. was never muscular. had a crisp non power like smooth swing.




but he got injured so hes on roids?

lol... griffey was injury prone because he tore his hamstring and it never healed right. then when he got paid by the reds he got lazy and fat in jis old age.

He also broke his wrist making an incredible catch in the late 90's.
These guys are drawing at straws; very sad to see.

[kennethgriffin]

the test was in 2003. look it up. griffey passed

:oldlol:



griffey > Baroid Bail Bonds

[KendrickPerkins]

This.

There are 150 pound MMA fighters and weight class powerlifters on gear.
Nope.

Steroids automatically make you look like this: http://www.musclemag.com/content/content/6388/Jay-Cutler1.jpg


This man abused steroids too. (and a sht ton of other illegal drugs)
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U2GFdLUP4DY/hqdefault.jpg

[GIF REACTION]

Honestly... If Griffey never took PEDs (WHICH I HIGHLY DOUBT) then I'd mark him down on the all time great list. That to me says poor attitude. The real champions will do ANYTHING to win. It's about heart. It's about desire. It's win at all costs. GOAT mentality.

[KendrickPerkins]

Read.
Says nothing about long term steroid abuse.

Griffey was juicing like 80+% of the league at the time.

He was around professional baseball his entire life. Not only did he juice, but the dude juiced so hard his body started breaking down in the prime of his athletic life.

now THAT'S sad.

Keep living a fairy-tale though... whatever helps you sleep at night.

[West-Side]

Griffey was tested on a number of occasions, in 2012 to be precise. Than again later in his career. This is a great read. A blog written after the A-Rod incident.



Earlier Thursday, the Paulino signing by the Mariners was made official. Paulino signed a minor league deal with an invite to spring training, which is all fine and dandy. It's worth noting because the Mariners now have a backup catcher they could send to the minors if need be. And that's about all for Mr. Paulino since I've already written about it and really, if I even attempted to care any less, the apathy would trickle in to other things that I would very much like to remain caring about.

Instead, I decided to take a look at Ken Griffey Jr. and what his eligibility might mean to the baseball Hall of Fame. It was announced that he would be inducted into the Mariners Hall of Fame on August 10th, 2013 and it got me to thinking about him and Cooperstown. Whether you think the HoF is a crock, the holy seat of all baseball, the voting is a sham, the voting is perfect, what have you, my intent is not to sway you from your opinion. Rather, it's to take a look at the Seattle Mariner's unadulterated son and icon of Mariners baseball, The Kid and what he may mean for the HoF and the Steroid Era.

It is widely agreed that Griffey Jr. is a first ballot Hall of Famer. He may not be a unanimous choice, but the difference in being a first ballot inductee and a unanimous choice is a difference I find to be marginal at best. He led the league in home runs 4 times, was top 10 in MVP voting 7 times, winning once, an All Star 13 times. He ended his career with a .284/.370/.538 line, along with 630 home runs, 1836 RBI and 2781 hits. With the injuries from the beginning of 2001 through 2006, those numbers are just an indication of something that might have been. We'll never know if he would have surpassed Hank Aaron in home runs before Bonds, but when a person dreams of baseball and their heroes, nothing is out of reach.

The title of the post implies Griffey Jr. being the last of something. In the case of baseball, The Kid may turn out to be the last of the "clean" players eligible and nearly a lock for the HoF with no black cloud hanging over him, no questions about steroids or other Performance Enhancing Drug usage, only his numbers, play on the field and personality to root for his cause. In his class are Garret Anderson, Brad Ausmus, Jim Edmonds, Mark Grudzielanek, Trevor Hoffman, Chan Ho Park, Mike Sweeney and Billy Wagner. There are arguments to be made for most of those players, but what player doesn't deserve some sort of argument for his induction? Future eligibles include Pat Burrell, Vladimir Guerrero, Jorge Posada, Manny Ramirez, Ivan Rodriguez, Jason Varitek, Tim Wakefield, Brian Fuentes, Chipper Jones, Hideki Matsui and Omar Vizquel. In 2017, Guerrero may very well be the last to be elected on the first ballot. Even Guerrero, however, isn't a lock for making it in either. I may be overstepping, but seeing the list and looking at the players that will be eligible in the coming years, Griffey looks to be the last of the surefire, first ballot HoF type player.

For the first time since 1996, the BBWAA did not elect a player into the Hall of Fame. Unless you've been living under a rock the last few years, you know the players that were eligible and the players with the PED question tagging along on the ballot. Included in those not inducted this year were Mike Piazza, Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds and Craig Biggio. I toss Biggio on the pile because, even with a number like 3000 hits, he didn't make it the first try. Whether right, wrong or just plain stupid, it is what it is. It has become the norm for the voters to shut out those with questions raised about their on field performance and whether it was aided by PEDs. Any player the voters deem to be under suspicion about their possible use of PEDs has a better chance of winning the Nobel Prize for physics than being voted in their first time on the ballot. Baseball writers who vote on HoF inductees are becoming the Joe McCarthy's of the BBWAA. If you don't get the reference, go back to school and slap your history teacher. Also, yes that is my own opinion. Whether you agree or disagree, you should still go back to school and slap your history teacher.

With the growing paranoia of who may or may not have used drugs to improve their on field play, it will become more and more difficult for a player to step up to the plate of HoF eligibility unscathed. Even players suspected, such as Jeff Bagwell, have PED suspicions hanging around their neck for no other reason than he hit the ball pretty far. I'm sure there are other reasons the voters found palatable to keep a player from getting elected, but the fact remains that even a question with absolutely no proof can get a player shut out. The Steroid Era and it's players are infamous and the players themselves will suffer for it. A backlog of eligible players may have guys waiting several years before they are elected, if at all. A maximum of 10 players are allowed on the ballot, which makes future years interesting, and not in a good way.

Playing catch up when new blood enters the BBWAA will be daunting, I believe. Baseball changes slowly and with more players becoming eligible every year, a change of heart would be of little consequence to those players to be considered on the fence. With the slow changing of the guard on the voting front, what players get left out in the cold? Would Bonds, after 4 years of not being elected because of PEDs, be more worthy than a guy who had fewer career home runs and the lesser of career years? Obviously, Bonds is only one player in that particular upcoming fight, but you get the idea. Would the voter's change their minds that quickly on players under suspicion, whether the suspicion is right or wrong, in time to elect those players and listen to the collective voice of the fans of the lesser but still deserving players? I suspect that won't happen.

So back to the Griffey question. With the mess of the Steroid Era and the rampant suspicions that come with it, is it possible for a player to be a first ballot Hall of Famer any more? In my opinion, Griffey is and could possibly be the last first ballot player for some time. We're seeing how knowledge can change the hearts and minds of not only the voters, but all fans. Knowledge can be a dangerous thing when coupled with the ignorance of the past, giving life to paranoia and unencumbered accusations through actions and words of the public at large. The Kid played the game in a time when players were putting themselves above all else by trying to gain an edge through illegal means. Throughout his career, Griffey has remained free of the prosecutorial environment of an era gone mad and remains so right now.

It's not a foregone conclusion that Griffey will remain free of all out accusation on down to whispered questions in the dark corners of bars, but he just might. The Steroid Era has called into question the validity of the Hall of Fame and whether or not it signifies what it once did. That's something only you can decide. No matter what you may think of Cooperstown, it is an opinion that will color your perception of future inductees and possibly baseball as a whole. To play in this era and not be swept up in all of the hoopla surrounding PEDs and their past and current usage is an accomplishment all its own. For a player to do that and be elected his first time eligible when players like Bonds, Piazza and Bagwell are shut out on suspicion alone is an unassailable feat. We'll find out in another 3 years and some months whether Griffey will be inducted on his first ballot or not. Circumstances and the voters may change to where he only becomes one of a select few rather than a class all his own. The way things look right now, Ken Griffey Jr. may turn out to be in a class all his own during a time when the only class was the classless.

I guess that's not entirely fair given that not all players were on something, but a player of his caliber who wasn't doing some sort of drug is a rare thing during that time. I will say I'm not convinced Bagwell did, but he didn't make it on the first try and could very well leave Griffey as the only remaining player who is above reproach and a sure bet for a first ballot induction. This is not gospel and could change within the remaining time before he is eligible, but the fact remains that The Kid may very well be the last player we see for a while who remains spotless throughout his journey to the Hall who played in a time when nearly every superstar player walked away from the game wearing a scarlet letter.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

14

[kennethgriffin]

*



fixed

[GIF REACTION]

[QUOTE=RoundMoundOfReb]14

[West-Side]

During random testing in 2003; Alex Rodriguez tested positive and Griffey tested negative. If the man was struggling with injuries so much during that time why wouldn't he take steroids then?

I mean the man hit 45 home runs as a 23 year old kid; his production numbers were high during his mid 20's. Something that Bonds, McGuire or Sosa DID not have. They started to become legit power hitters when they turned 30. Quite suspicious.

McGuire was a great power hitter in Oakland but it wasn't until he turned his 30's that his production ridiculously increased.

These are all facts I already showed you guys; unless you have some real concrete evidence toward Griffey using steroids, don't accuse him of doing so.

It's so obvious that Bonds, Sosa and McGuire cheated the game.

[kennethgriffin]

lets just get something clear



bonds cheated


its proven


his records don't count


period



this is allot more substantial than a lockout or ray allen shot. this is banned performance enhancing drugs lol

bonds, mcgwire and sosa ruined the history of the game by screwing with the record books

the single season HR record should still be 61


hank aaron is still the legit all time king



the game will never be the same. baseball records were half the reason people fell in love with the sport back in the day.

now theres nothing to look forward to





and babe ruth sh*ts on bonds with or without roids.

ruth was the best pitcher in baseball before he even became the greatest hitter ever


perfecting both pitching and batting is unheard of. nobody can go out today and win 20 games. then hit 60+ homeruns

[GIF REACTION]

Should we black list Babe Ruth because he played in an era with little to no blacks?

Should we black list Mays and Aaron for using amphetamines?

[West-Side]

Don't forget to include Roger Clemens, kenneth. :cheers:
Another cheater; and of course the scum of the earth Alex Rodriguez.

I'm ashamed that he played for Seattle all those years.

The saddest thing about this entire debacle; Bonds, McGuire, A-Rod and Clemens were 1st ballot hall of famers before taking steroids (well maybe not McGuire). They would have never broken many of those records but they were all superstars.

When a reported asked Griffey "Did you ever do steroids?"
His response put a smile on my face and a tear in my eye; he simply said "Why?".

:bowdown: :applause:

Griffey is the player of his generation; not Bonds.
He was the poster boy of baseball throughout the 90's because he was a perfect role model, not a perfect cheater.

[GIF REACTION]

Doesn't matter

Barry GOAT Bonds

Deal with it

[KendrickPerkins]

During random testing in 2003; Alex Rodriguez tested positive and Griffey tested negative. If the man was struggling with injuries so much during that time why wouldn't he take steroids then?

I mean the man hit 45 home runs as a 23 year old kid; his production numbers were high during his mid 20's. Something that Bonds, McGuire or Sosa DID not have. They started to become legit power hitters when they turned 30. Quite suspicious.

McGuire was a great power hitter in Oakland but it wasn't until he turned his 30's that his production ridiculously increased.

These are all facts I already showed you guys; unless you have some real concrete evidence toward Griffey using steroids, don't accuse him of doing so.

It's so obvious that Bonds, Sosa and McGuire cheated the game.
:facepalm

Griffey juiced throughout the 90s.

The last 10 or so years of his career post steroids were absolutely abysmal.

If anything, it PROVES he is a cheat. The fact that he was a worthless player after 30 just goes to show how much steroids played a part in his early success.

Look at A-Rod age 40. Still knocking em out of the park with relative ease. Why? Because he doesn't RELY on PED's like Jr. did in the 90's.

Jr. was nothing without PED's. NOTHING.

[West-Side]

:facepalm

Griffey juiced throughout the 90s.

The last 10 or so years of his career post steroids were absolutely abysmal.

If anything, it PROVES he is a cheat. The fact that he was a worthless player after 30 just goes to show how much steroids played a part in his early success.

Look at A-Rod age 40. Still knocking em out of the park with relative ease. Why? Because he doesn't RELY on PED's like Jr. did in the 90's.

Jr. was nothing without PED's. NOTHING.

Are you just trolling me or are you actually being serious?

[GIF REACTION]

[QUOTE]—Bonds drew 688 intentional walks in his career. There are 49 Hall of Fame position players who drew fewer walks of any kind in their entire careers.

—If Bonds had retired after the 1998 season, he would have done so with 99.6 career rWAR. This would rank him No. 32 all-time.

—If Bonds had retired after his age-27 season rather than signing with the San Francisco Giants, he would have done so with 50.1 career rWAR, more than 42 Hall of Fame position players.

—Bonds had a career line of .393/.967/1.054 on 3-0 counts.

—Bonds was once intentionally walked with the bases loaded.

—Bonds was intentionally walked with the bases empty 41 times.

—In the 2002 postseason, Bonds hit .356/.581/.978 with eight home runs in 17 games.

—Between 2002 and 2004, Bonds hit 136 home runs and struck out 146 times.
—If you turned every home run Bonds ever hit into an out, his career on base percentage would be .384, the same as Alex Rodriguez's.

—Between 1990 and 2004, Bonds was never lower than third in OPS, and he was third only three times.

—Bonds stole 340 bases through age 30; Derek Jeter has stolen 355 in his career.

—Bonds reached base just 330 fewer times than all-time leader Pete Rose, in 3,284 fewer plate appearances.

—Bonds opened the 2004 season with a stretch in which he reached base 45 times in 64 plate appearances, with nine home runs and four strikeouts.

—Bonds's slugging percentage in 2001 was .863. If that were his OPS, it would have ranked 27th in the National League, just behind teammate and defending MVP Jeff Kent's .877 mark.

—From 2002 to 2007, the only seasons for which data is available, Bonds made contact with 90.5 percent of strikes he swung at, varying from a seasonal low of 89.2 percent to a high of 93.7 percent.
—Bonds made 85 fewer outs than Ken Griffey Jr. did in 1,302 more plate appearances.

—Bonds had four sacrifice hits in his career. (Ted Williams had five; Hank Aaron had 21.)

—Through age 26, Bonds had 10.8 defensive WAR, more than any other outfielder in major league history other than Andruw Jones through that age.

—Bonds hit .333/.488/.576 against Pedro Mart

[KendrickPerkins]

Are you just trolling me or are you actually being serious?
I'll eventually be proven right like I always am. My intuition never fails me.

Those injuries were caused by long term steroid use, period. He fell of a freaking cliff without PED's.

Meanwhile Bonds was eating bison and grass fed beef on his way to breaking the most prestigious record in all of sports.

GOAT.

[West-Side]

I'll eventually be proven right like I always am. My intuition never fails me.

Those injuries were caused by long term steroid use, period. He fell of a freaking cliff without PED's.

Meanwhile Bonds was eating bison and grass fed beef on his way to breaking the most prestigious record in all of sports.

GOAT.

Definitely trolling me based on your last sentence about Bonds. :lol
Anyways, you stick with your intuition and I'll stick with facts.

[GimmeThat]

on the topic in regarding to baseball and the use of steroids

we may as well talk about the topic in regards to what do you do when you are in the position to "monitor" someone who is interested, and even, set, on stealing and running away with something.

I'm using the term "monitor" loosely here, since I don't feel to get in the topic in separating the term coach and manager. as once again, that most likely goes back to how salaries are set and the MLB no-cap salary policy.

but to go back on topic.


lost sight. is probably a good term to describe it all.


why do so many people encourage such behavior? losing sight of it all. Are the audience themselves lost as well? And when this happens, does all that matter, is the continuous indecision of the verb "define".

I expect the correlation between "define" and judge.


Profitability is a simple game of mathematic, and that of the minority in me, would argue that it is just as so similar to the game of baseball.


I can't teach anyone how to throw a 128 mph curve-ball that is BETTER, and more UNSTOPPABLE than a 141 mph curve-ball.

But I may be able to let the consideration to embrace those 137 mph curve-ball being thrown while sitting on the bench.


The battle between the Gods and Monsters who are professional in these arguments?



Michael Jackson is the catcher with the face of a mirror. And I am the pitcher.

[thefatmiral]

hard to pick a best overall for nfl and mlb. there not two way sports. like basketball hockey or socker. I can only do by position for them.

[ShawkFactory]

Don't forget to include Roger Clemens, kenneth. :cheers:
Another cheater; and of course the scum of the earth Alex Rodriguez.

I'm ashamed that he played for Seattle all those years.

The saddest thing about this entire debacle; Bonds, McGuire, A-Rod and Clemens were 1st ballot hall of famers before taking steroids (well maybe not McGuire). They would have never broken many of those records but they were all superstars.

When a reported asked Griffey "Did you ever do steroids?"
His response put a smile on my face and a tear in my eye; he simply said "Why?".

:bowdown: :applause:

Griffey is the player of his generation; not Bonds.
He was the poster boy of baseball throughout the 90's because he was a perfect role model, not a perfect cheater.
Well if we're throwin it steroids...Pujols is the best player of this generation :rockon:

[GIF REACTION]

[QUOTE]—Bonds drew 688 intentional walks in his career. There are 49 Hall of Fame position players who drew fewer walks of any kind in their entire careers.

—If Bonds had retired after the 1998 season, he would have done so with 99.6 career rWAR. This would rank him No. 32 all-time.

—If Bonds had retired after his age-27 season rather than signing with the San Francisco Giants, he would have done so with 50.1 career rWAR, more than 42 Hall of Fame position players.

—Bonds had a career line of .393/.967/1.054 on 3-0 counts.

—Bonds was once intentionally walked with the bases loaded.

—Bonds was intentionally walked with the bases empty 41 times.

—In the 2002 postseason, Bonds hit .356/.581/.978 with eight home runs in 17 games.

—Between 2002 and 2004, Bonds hit 136 home runs and struck out 146 times.
—If you turned every home run Bonds ever hit into an out, his career on base percentage would be .384, the same as Alex Rodriguez's.

—Between 1990 and 2004, Bonds was never lower than third in OPS, and he was third only three times.

—Bonds stole 340 bases through age 30; Derek Jeter has stolen 355 in his career.

—Bonds reached base just 330 fewer times than all-time leader Pete Rose, in 3,284 fewer plate appearances.

—Bonds opened the 2004 season with a stretch in which he reached base 45 times in 64 plate appearances, with nine home runs and four strikeouts.

—Bonds's slugging percentage in 2001 was .863. If that were his OPS, it would have ranked 27th in the National League, just behind teammate and defending MVP Jeff Kent's .877 mark.

—From 2002 to 2007, the only seasons for which data is available, Bonds made contact with 90.5 percent of strikes he swung at, varying from a seasonal low of 89.2 percent to a high of 93.7 percent.
—Bonds made 85 fewer outs than Ken Griffey Jr. did in 1,302 more plate appearances.

—Bonds had four sacrifice hits in his career. (Ted Williams had five; Hank Aaron had 21.)

—Through age 26, Bonds had 10.8 defensive WAR, more than any other outfielder in major league history other than Andruw Jones through that age.

—Bonds hit .333/.488/.576 against Pedro Mart

[buddha]

america only has two sports.

[warriorfan]

Football, Basketball, Baseball.

Football GOAT?
http://imgs.sfgate.com/inline/e/pxs/1998/09/03/rice-jerry.jpg

Basketball GOAT?
http://awesomeish.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Michael-Jordan.jpg

Baseball GOAT?
http://media.philly.com/images/020413-bonds-barry-600.jpg

These guys are examples of what happens when you combine top notch genetics with GOAT level skillsets. 2 are from the Bay area. Godbless. "From Oakland to Sactown. The Bay Area and back down"

damn

pretty good post