No trolling. Real talk. Muslims please answer a few questions

[poido123]

1. Do you want sharia law in your country? (If in a non Islamic country)Why/why not?


2. Are the terrorists who happen to be Muslim justified in their actions and is America partly to blame? Why?


3. Do you agree with fellow Muslims demanding mosques, halal certification, censorship on cartoons, women oppression, child marriage in western countries? Why/why not?


4. Do you feel it's your duty to protest against senseless religious violence from Muslims or do you watch on and approve of it? Keeping in mind that Muslims have no issues in protesting for everything else. Why/why not?


5. Do you feel any sense of responsibility to other Muslims becoming radicalised and do you think your community can do more to prevent isis fighters etc?
Why do you feel it's out of control? Is there issues level headed Muslims can solve?


6. Are moderate Muslims(I presume you)scared to speak out and take action against other Muslims in fear of retaliation or threats?


7. Why are the practices and teachings in your religion so rigid and oppressive? The fasting, the punishments, covering women up, against free speech and expression etc etc



Not trying to start a fight with anyone, I want to understand the mentality here, because for me I'm not convinced that this is all because of big bad America. There seems to be something systemically wrong in this religion and I hope I can understand it better from the Muslims here.

Id appreciate an effort to answer these questions and respect you for at least giving it a go. Thanks

[9erempiree]

http://beatingcowdens.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/house_cricket2.jpg

[iamgine]

1. Do you want sharia law in your country? (If in a non Islamic country)Why/why not?


2. Are the terrorists who happen to be Muslim justified in their actions and is America partly to blame? Why?


3. Do you agree with fellow Muslims demanding mosques, halal certification, censorship on cartoons, women oppression, child marriage in western countries? Why/why not?


4. Do you feel it's your duty to protest against senseless religious violence from Muslims or do you watch on and approve of it? Keeping in mind that Muslims have no issues in protesting for everything else. Why/why not?


5. Do you feel any sense of responsibility to other Muslims becoming radicalised and do you think your community can do more to prevent isis fighters etc?
Why do you feel it's out of control? Is there issues level headed Muslims can solve?


6. Are moderate Muslims(I presume you)scared to speak out and take action against other Muslims in fear of retaliation or threats?


7. Why are the practices and teachings in your religion so rigid and oppressive? The fasting, the punishments, covering women up, against free speech and expression etc etc



Not trying to start a fight with anyone, I want to understand the mentality here, because for me I'm not convinced that this is all because of big bad America. There seems to be something systemically wrong in this religion and I hope I can understand it better from the Muslims here.

Id appreciate an effort to answer these questions and respect you for at least giving it a go. Thanks
Real muslims, just like any other religion, believe that their holy book is the word of God. Thus it must be followed because there is no denying that God is the ultimate form of authority. Not government, not human, not the world, not this life or anything else. This much you should be able to understand.

Muslims, just like anyone else, would want to eat delicious pork and just fck whoever they want and not have to pray five freakin times a day. But the word of Quran says they have to, and their point of view is to follow the Quran. Thus the answer to most of your questions is, "look at the Quran, what does it say."

[RidonKs]

poido; try to understand that you will never find anything 'systematically wrong' with islam. at least there is nothing to make it any more 'systematically wrong' than any other comprehensive system of phony opinions. i'm sure you know the list.

islam is making the news because the world's most wartorn region is predominantly populated by muslims.

i expect you're at least willing to admit you know very little about the doctrine, given how big and boring is the quran and its associated literature. do you really believe you can pull certain messages out of that tome and demonstrate that they are interpreted as violent and oppressive, not because of time and place, but because the words just brainwash people and make them crazy?

c'mon be serious and talk about something you have a stake in. you have no stake in this issue. you're just a kid outside throwing tomatoes.

if you're going to hurl tomatoes at people, at least make them big juicy ones. right now you're hucking crab apples which just leaves petty bruising.

[Patrick Chewing]

poido; try to understand that you will never find anything 'systematically wrong' with islam. at least there is nothing to make it any more 'systematically wrong' than any other comprehensive system of phony opinions. i'm sure you know the list.

islam is making the news because the world's most wartorn region is predominantly populated by muslims.

i expect you're at least willing to admit you know very little about the doctrine, given how big and boring is the quran and its associated literature. do you really believe you can pull certain messages out of that tome and demonstrate that they are interpreted as violent and oppressive, not because of time and place, but because the words just brainwash people and make them crazy?

c'mon be serious and talk about something you have a stake in. you have no stake in this issue. you're just a kid outside throwing tomatoes.

if you're going to hurl tomatoes at people, at least make them big juicy ones. right now you're hucking crab apples which just leaves petty bruising.


Spoken like a true Muslim.

[Derka]

"I have some serious qualms with a centuries old system of religious belief that I feel poses a threat to my way of life. I'd better head to insidehoops.com and demand answers and debate about this."

[poido123]

poido; try to understand that you will never find anything 'systematically wrong' with islam. at least there is nothing to make it any more 'systematically wrong' than any other comprehensive system of phony opinions. i'm sure you know the list.

islam is making the news because the world's most wartorn region is predominantly populated by muslims.

i expect you're at least willing to admit you know very little about the doctrine, given how big and boring is the quran and its associated literature. do you really believe you can pull certain messages out of that tome and demonstrate that they are interpreted as violent and oppressive, not because of time and place, but because the words just brainwash people and make them crazy?

c'mon be serious and talk about something you have a stake in. you have no stake in this issue. you're just a kid outside throwing tomatoes.

if you're going to hurl tomatoes at people, at least make them big juicy ones. right now you're hucking crab apples which just leaves petty bruising.



Aren't you curious to know direct answers to these questions? Ones which we can better understand what we are dealing with here?

I'm no expert on the book, but many verses I do know tell me there are issues with the teachings which call on followers to be one side of a fence or the other. I see many of their followers take the book very seriously which means bad news for the rest of us.

By opening up these questions I'm hoping to be more aware and better educated by going directly to the source. I hope we can get some insightful answers from guys like Sweggeh or left4dead.

:cheers:

[LJJ]

poido; try to understand that you will never find anything 'systematically wrong' with islam. at least there is nothing to make it any more 'systematically wrong' than any other comprehensive system of phony opinions. i'm sure you know the list.

islam is making the news because the world's most wartorn region is predominantly populated by muslims.

And outside of those wartorn regions there are zero issues to do with Islam. Lol. Spoken from true utter ignorance.

[poido123]

"I have some serious qualms with a centuries old system of religious belief that I feel poses a threat to my way of life. I'd better head to insidehoops.com and demand answers and debate about this."


:oldlol:

Where do you suppose I could get some logical/ sensible responses to these questions? Local mosque?

[LJJ]

:oldlol:

Where do you suppose I could get some logical/ sensible responses to these questions? Local mosque?

If you are curious, just ask someone you know. And then understand that the replies you get are just the personal opinions of one single person who happens to be Muslim.

[Derka]

:oldlol:

Where do you suppose I could get some logical/ sensible responses to these questions? Local mosque?

Anywhere but the internet?

[poido123]

Anywhere but the internet?


I have attempted to ask these questions before. They can get quite defensive and agitated. The other Muslim I asked one question and he said he didn't want to discuss anything more...

[Droid101]

Hardcore Muslim here. I'll give your trolling a response though I don't know why.

1. Do you want sharia law in your country? (If in a non Islamic country)Why/why not?

No. Because there is a separation of Church and state in this country.


2. Are the terrorists who happen to be Muslim justified in their actions and is America partly to blame? Why?

No, no.


3. Do you agree with fellow Muslims demanding mosques, halal certification, censorship on cartoons, women oppression, child marriage in western countries? Why/why not?

Yes. Anyone can demand anything they want, this is a free country.


4. Do you feel it's your duty to protest against senseless religious violence from Muslims or do you watch on and approve of it? Keeping in mind that Muslims have no issues in protesting for everything else. Why/why not?

I and many Muslims fight against religious violence from Islamic religions and every other one. Many more Muslims have died fighting ISIS than Americans.


5. Do you feel any sense of responsibility to other Muslims becoming radicalised and do you think your community can do more to prevent isis fighters etc?
Why do you feel it's out of control? Is there issues level headed Muslims can solve?

No. Do you feel any sense of responsibility for Dylan Roof or any other Christian extremist?

6. Are moderate Muslims(I presume you)scared to speak out and take action against other Muslims in fear of retaliation or threats?

No, plenty of us speak out often against violence of any kind.


7. Why are the practices and teachings in your religion so rigid and oppressive? The fasting, the punishments, covering women up, against free speech and expression etc etc

Why are the practices and teachings in Hasidic Judaism so rigid and oppressive? The fasting, the punishments, covering women up, against free speech and expression etc etc

Every religion is different.

[RidonKs]

And outside of those wartorn regions there are zero issues to do with Islam. Lol. Spoken from true utter ignorance.
lovely words. what do they have to do with my post? inside any region, there are infinite issues with the local religion. my point strictly concerns middle class americans who continue to see islam as a bogie man without parallel due to the distorted version of events they receive from their news media.

that's why i started the point you quoted with "islam is making the news". the consequences of my argument have very little to do with oppression in sharia law or outright justification for genocide.

[RidonKs]

Aren't you curious to know direct answers to these questions? Ones which we can better understand what we are dealing with here?

I'm no expert on the book, but many verses I do know tell me there are issues with the teachings which call on followers to be one side of a fence or the other. I see many of their followers take the book very seriously which means bad news for the rest of us.

By opening up these questions I'm hoping to be more aware and better educated by going directly to the source. I hope we can get some insightful answers from guys like Sweggeh or left4dead.

:cheers:
i have been considering all the questions you asked for some time. by all means they are interesting and worth pursuing. but i don't think you're going to find satisfactory answers, particularly given the point of view you're bringing to the table.

the second problem with your questions, specifically if they're posed to muslims, is that they make people defensive. they're designed around the most problematic aspects of the faith that have been publicized for years and are now virtual cliches / talking points. you aren't uncovering new light asking these questions, you're just beating a dead horse.

i'm not criticizing your project and you're pretty damn careful not to explicitly offend people, which i appreciate since it distinguishes you from pat chewing and nick young and that ilk. but i do think you could expand your horizons more before embarking on your question to understand.

[Patrick Chewing]

Droid's a Muslim?? :oldlol:




Oh **** I need a drink....lol

[Droid101]

I'll be anything you want for the right price.

[SpecialQue]

Droid's a Muslim?? :oldlol:




Oh **** I need a drink....lol

Like you didn't see him strap some facts to his chest and destroy Euroleague yesterday.

[9erempiree]

Droid's a Muslim?? :oldlol:




Oh **** I need a drink....lol

Already exposed in Ramadan thread.

[Patrick Chewing]

A Liberal Muslim. Dude probably pats himself on the back when he completes an assignment and sits at his dinner table with a mirror across from him.


Bad news for Droid is that he's probably gay or bi, and ISIS has no place for those type of Muslims.

[LJJ]

lovely words. what do they have to do with my post? inside any region, there are infinite issues with the local religion. my point strictly concerns middle class americans who continue to see islam as a bogie man without parallel due to the distorted version of events they receive from their news media.

that's why i started the point you quoted with "islam is making the news". the consequences of my argument have very little to do with oppression in sharia law or outright justification for genocide.

Because you can find tons of systemic problems with Islam and it's not at all restricted to the ME. I think you actually know better, so it's nothing more than a blatant lie.

[9erempiree]

The thread is worthless because as I and many others have mentioned they will avoid this thread like the pork. Which then plays into our stereotype of them.

We have tried to have legit discussions with them and it never works.

[RidonKs]

Because you can find tons of systemic problems with Islam and it's not at all restricted to the ME. I think you actually know better, so it's nothing more than a blatant lie.
but the reason ISLAM makes the NEWS is because of conflict in the MIDDLE EAST. of course there are squabbles in south east asia but nobody gives two shits. certainly the op doesn't.

there are ongoing conflicts around the world in which religious attitudes are critical, or event heir raison d'etre. most of them do not make the international press on a regular basis.

you can call me a liar if you would like. i don't deny anything you have said. of course islamic culture has systemic problems. not exactly earth shattering though, find me a type of culture that doesn't?

all you want to say is that islamic culture has MORE systemic problems than ANY of the others... perhaps you even want to say throughout history. i know that's the point the op wants to unleash. but go ahead and prove that. it is not so easy. i'm not the one being outlandish here.

[LJJ]

but the reason ISLAM makes the NEWS is because of conflict in the MIDDLE EAST. of course there are squabbles in south east asia but nobody gives two shits. certainly the op doesn't.

there are ongoing conflicts around the world in which religious attitudes are critical, or event heir raison d'etre. most of them do not make the international press on a regular basis.

you can call me a liar if you would like. i don't deny anything you have said. of course islamic culture has systemic problems. not exactly earth shattering though, find me a type of culture that doesn't?

all you want to say is that islamic culture has MORE systemic problems than ANY of the others... perhaps you even want to say throughout history. i know that's the point the op wants to unleash. but go ahead and prove that. it is not so easy. i'm not the one being outlandish here.

If you look at all the conflicts in the world. ME. Eastern Europe. Northern Africa. Eastern Africa. Western Africa. South Asia. South Eastern Asia. Eastern Asia. Religious attacks in Europe. Religious attacks in the US.

If you simply look at how many of them have to do with Islamic extremism, how can you call that anything but a systemic problem? It's all over. It's not earth shattering? Seriously?

I bet you are trying to slam some Islamic ***** right now and that's why you are fasting for ramadan and trying to SJW it up only talking about there are no serious systemic problems throughout the world with Islam. Biggest BS I've ever heard.

[Patrick Chewing]

Did Ridonks convert? Or was he always a Muzzie?


So many of them on the board now.

[9erempiree]

Did Ridonks convert? Or was he always a Muzzie?


So many of them on the board now.

Refer to Ramadan thread.

[imdaman99]

Sorry, you have proven your dislike for Islam so nothing I say matters to you. You have your mind up. I don't need to waste time on closed minded bigots by giving you answers you will ignore in the next Muslim thread.

http://www.wakondamarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/do-not-feed-the-trolls.jpg

[RidonKs]

lol i wish that were the case. unfortunately it is not.

it isn't earth shattering to me because i've heard it all before. as i said, you can call it systemic if you want. it is certainly widespread.

i take issue when the doctrine itself is condemned en mass, in spite of being 1500 years old, practised by billions, and to be perfectly frank, not all that different from the teaching in the other abrahamic faiths. i don't believe in any of them and think they're all horseshit.

but then you ask, well what of the violence? that requires a more complicated answer. doctrine will play its role of course, if only because the people committing the violence obviously subscribe to some faith and use it to justify, pre/ad/post hoc, their horrific actions.

the more complicated answer is what actually prompts people to commit terrorist attacks. i believe i have a better explanation for that phenomenon than you do, though i'm not about to hash it out in this thread as i've done dozens of times in the past.

since you keep harping on 'systemic' as if i disagree with you, in spite of my repeatedly telling you i do not, why don't you give me the lowdown. we agree on the problems themselves; what exactly makes them 'systemic' as opposed to merely widespread or similar or whatever else?

[Dresta]

Real muslims, just like any other religion, believe that their holy book is the word of God. Thus it must be followed because there is no denying that God is the ultimate form of authority. Not government, not human, not the world, not this life or anything else. This much you should be able to understand.

Muslims, just like anyone else, would want to eat delicious pork and just fck whoever they want and not have to pray five freakin times a day. But the word of Quran says they have to, and their point of view is to follow the Quran. Thus the answer to most of your questions is, "look at the Quran, what does it say."
Not true. The Quran, yes, was supposedly dictated by the Archangel Gabriel and is thus the direct word of God; the Bible never makes such claims, and the word itself means 'library' or collection of books - tis a combination of poetry, history, allegory, and prophesy, and each needs to be read differently. No educated Christian will tell you the Bible is 'the word of God.'

It's a travesty that children are no longer taught the Bible at school, for it is very much the basis for the English language, and the works of individuals like Shakespeare and Milton can not be properly understood by people lacking that knowledge.

[ISHGoat]

do muslim chicks shave their parts?

[9erempiree]

I think the real problem here are the Muslims on ISH. They are uneducated idiots. If you guys want a good discussion, I recommend visiting other sites with much more educated Muslims. While I don't agree with what Islam teaches, the Muslims on other sites are much more engaging and educated about their religion than the so-called ones here.

ISH has a bad batch, they can't hold a steady discussion about basketball and you expect them to do it with religion?

[LJJ]

lol i wish that were the case. unfortunately it is not.

it isn't earth shattering to me because i've heard it all before. as i said, you can call it systemic if you want. it is certainly widespread.

i take issue when the doctrine itself is condemned en mass, in spite of being 1500 years old, practised by billions, and to be perfectly frank, not all that different from the teaching in the other abrahamic faiths. i don't believe in any of them and think they're all horseshit.

but then you ask, well what of the violence? that requires a more complicated answer. doctrine will play its role of course, if only because the people committing the violence obviously subscribe to some faith and use it to justify, pre/ad/post hoc, their horrific actions.

the more complicated answer is what actually prompts people to commit terrorist attacks. i believe i have a better explanation for that phenomenon than you do, though i'm not about to hash it out in this thread as i've done dozens of times in the past.

since you keep harping on 'systemic' as if i disagree with you, in spite of my repeatedly telling you i do not, why don't you give me the lowdown. we agree on the problems themselves; what exactly makes them 'systemic' as opposed to merely widespread or similar or whatever else?


try to understand that you will never find anything 'systematically wrong' with islam.


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm



Anyway, it would merely be widespread if there were many places with some of the classic "Islamic" issues. Violence against a (deemed) non-Islamic authority. Violence against infidels. Violence against women. Violence as retribution for perceived religious insults. etcetera. List em. It's systemic if it happens across virtually every Islamic culture, which have nothing to do with each other other than Islam.

A Mindanaoese, an Uyghur, a Rohingya, a Hausa, a Saudi, a Tunisian, a Pakistani, a Persian, a Chechnyan. With a broad brush none of these people have anything to do with each other culturally aside from Islam. Yet they all have the exact same, huge problems with religious extremism and committing religious violence. That's a systemic religious problem, not a widespread issue that can be explained in any other way. These problems arise completely separate from each other, with Islam as a huge part of the root cause every time.

[LJJ]

do muslim chicks shave their parts?

If you ask them nicely.

[Droid101]

In order to troll Chewing, I have converted and I am now the following:

1) Muslim
2) Gay
3) Black
4) Illegal Immigrant from Mexico
5) Socialist
6) Product of single mother
7) Poor with no job living on welfare
8) Transgender
9) Thinks Chicago Pizza is the only real pizza. New York pizza is basically a shit sandwich.

Prove me wrong folks, prove me wrong.

[Dresta]

A Mindanaoese, an Uyghur, a Rohingya, a Hausa, a Saudi, a Tunisian, a Pakistani, a Persian, a Chechnyan. With a broad brush none of these people have anything to do with each other culturally aside from Islam. Yet they all have the exact same, huge problems with religious extremism and committing religious violence. That's a systemic religious problem, not a widespread issue that can be explained in any other way. These problems arise completely separate from each other, with Islam as a huge part of the root cause every time.
Tunisia didn't really have a 'huge problem' until Western powers decided to turn her neighbour into anarchic wasteland tbh, as most the the country is rather moderate (with the exception of certain areas of the South) - but these people are really on the fringe in Tunisia, and most Tunisians don't want them there. I remember being complained to that even wearing the 'hijab' 'isn't the Tunisian way' - and the young there are heavily westernised already. You see more Niqabs on the streets of London than in Tunisia.

If the Netherlands shared a long border with a country in the middle of a fanatical civil war then they would have a 'huge problem' with the 'committing of religious violence' also. The British foreign office decision to recommend against travel to Tunisia (and some other Europeans governments) is an extreme act of cowardice of which any sensible person should be ashamed. Tunisia is the sole bright spot of the Arab Spring, and we should be aiding them, not condemning them to economic instability in the most cowardly fashion. Why do you think IS are targeting Tunisia? Because their success in not going down the Islamist path is an affront to them, and they want to send it back into barbarism.

[brownmamba00]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm



Anyway, it would merely be widespread if there were many places with some of the classic "Islamic" issues. Violence against a (deemed) non-Islamic authority. Violence against infidels. Violence against women. Violence as retribution for perceived religious insults. etcetera. List em. It's systemic if it happens across virtually every Islamic culture, which have nothing to do with each other other than Islam.

A Mindanaoese, an Uyghur, a Rohingya, a Hausa, a Saudi, a Tunisian, a Pakistani, a Persian, a Chechnyan. With a broad brush none of these people have anything to do with each other culturally aside from Islam. Yet they all have the exact same, huge problems with religious extremism and committing religious violence. That's a systemic religious problem, not a widespread issue that can be explained in any other way. These problems arise completely separate from each other, with Islam as a huge part of the root cause every time.

you should look in to the history of Chechnya, Afghanistan, Tunisia, Eastern Turkistan, etc if you want to see where their problems stems from.

It's usually western powers invading these countries and leave when the infrastructure and economy start failing...which opens up a big hole to be filled that some of these terrorist groups can take advantage of esp with the backings of western nations (isis/pkk/al qaeda/taliban and other countless terrorist extremist groups have been supported and funded before they branched out by the US and British gov to fit their agenda).

[LJJ]

you should look in to the history of Chechnya, Afghanistan, Tunisia, Eastern Turkistan, etc if you want to see where their problems stems from.

It's usually western powers invading these countries and leave when the infrastructure and economy start failing...which opens up a big hole to be filled that some of these terrorist groups can take advantage of esp with the backings of western nations (isis/pkk/al qaeda/taliban and other countless terrorist extremist groups have been supported and funded before they branched out by the US and British gov to fit their agenda).

I know the history of most of these places pretty well. And I don't disagree that in many cases Islam is hardly the only factor at play here, they are all complex and unique situations in their own way. But terrorism justified by Islam is virtually the only thing that binds them, that shows that Islam does have major systemic issues that leaves a population vulnerable to this kind of religious violence.

[LJJ]

Tunisia didn't really have a 'huge problem' until Western powers decided to turn her neighbour into anarchic wasteland tbh, as most the the country is rather moderate (with the exception of certain areas of the South) - but these people are really on the fringe in Tunisia, and most Tunisians don't want them there. I remember being complained to that even wearing the 'hijab' 'isn't the Tunisian way' - and the young there are heavily westernised already. You see more Niqabs on the streets of London than in Tunisia.

If the Netherlands shared a long border with a country in the middle of a fanatical civil war then they would have a 'huge problem' with the 'committing of religious violence' also. The British foreign office decision to recommend against travel to Tunisia (and some other Europeans governments) is an extreme act of cowardice of which any sensible person should be ashamed. Tunisia is the sole bright spot of the Arab Spring, and we should be aiding them, not condemning them to economic instability in the most cowardly fashion. Why do you think IS are targeting Tunisia? Because their success in not going down the Islamist path is an affront to them, and they want to send it back into barbarism.

I'm not really commenting on the Tunisian situation specifically. Substitute virtually any country in Northern Africa. Morocco, Libya, Egypt, Tunisia. They all have big problems with their citizens committing religious violence. Saying the religious component isn't significant in any of these issues is blindness, saying it isn't a systemic problem is blindness, it's always a huge component.

[poido123]

Sorry, you have proven your dislike for Islam so nothing I say matters to you. You have your mind up. I don't need to waste time on closed minded bigots by giving you answers you will ignore in the next Muslim thread.

http://www.wakondamarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/do-not-feed-the-trolls.jpg



Some long, direct answers/explanations would certainly help me understand better. I could potentially go from a hater to at least a fence sitter in regards to Islam and it's people.

In fact, I'm sure if there was some really telling answers, many of us here could potentially change some of our views. I'm open to that, I'm never a closed book.

[brownmamba00]

I know the history of most of these places pretty well. And I don't disagree that in many cases Islam is hardly the only factor at play here, they are all complex and unique situations in their own way. But terrorism justified by Islam is virtually the only thing that binds them, that shows that Islam does have major systemic issues that leaves a population vulnerable to this kind of religious violence.
Exactly

Over a long period of war and shelter, people tend to turn to faith..the young generation in particular who mostly come from rural areas without any education system, money or foresee able future can be vulnerable to terrorist organisations that use faith to recruit their personel. The question should be where these organisations get their weapon supply and cashflow from rather than the goat herders they force in to their system.

What do you mean with major systematic issues? Example?

[RidonKs]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm



Anyway, it would merely be widespread if there were many places with some of the classic "Islamic" issues. Violence against a (deemed) non-Islamic authority. Violence against infidels. Violence against women. Violence as retribution for perceived religious insults. etcetera. List em. It's systemic if it happens across virtually every Islamic culture, which have nothing to do with each other other than Islam.

A Mindanaoese, an Uyghur, a Rohingya, a Hausa, a Saudi, a Tunisian, a Pakistani, a Persian, a Chechnyan. With a broad brush none of these people have anything to do with each other culturally aside from Islam. Yet they all have the exact same, huge problems with religious extremism and committing religious violence. That's a systemic religious problem, not a widespread issue that can be explained in any other way. These problems arise completely separate from each other, with Islam as a huge part of the root cause every time.
fk off dude, that is a blatant mischaracterization. the sentence i wrote immediately after the one you quoted explicitly qualifies the statement as comparative to other religions. and i stand by that.

you didn't touch on anything else i wrote. you just exemplified and restated your stance. which is fine. i think with a broad brush they might have plenty in common, but again, that is a different conversation and one i am not too qualified to speak strongly toward.


Saying the religious component isn't significant in any of these issues is blindness, saying it isn't a systemic problem is blindness, it's always a huge component.
i doubt anybody would say that. at least nobody has in this thread. the question i'm primarily concerned with is whether islamic doctrine is being unfairly singled out for its archaic primitive teaching, which you want to attest contributes perhaps more than any other factor to violent religiously justified action. i stand by the position that this is more properly ad hoc justification for actions that would not be carried out under different socio-economic / geo-political circumstances.

[RidonKs]

No educated Christian will tell you the Bible is 'the word of God.'
this is one of the funniest things you've written

[poido123]

Exactly

Over a long period of war and shelter, people tend to turn to faith..the young generation in particular who mostly come from rural areas without any education system, money or foresee able future can be vulnerable to terrorist organisations that use faith to recruit their personel. The question should be where these organisations get their weapon supply and cashflow from rather than the goat herders they force in to their system.

What do you mean with major systematic issues? Example?


That doesn't explain the educated, living comfortable Muslims who take to fundamentalist Islam?

This isn't simply a socio economic thing. Muslims from many different backgrounds are taking to ISIL.

What is driving this surge? Part of what you said is true. Young and vulnerable are definitely easy targets for terrorist groups worldwide

[LJJ]

i think with a broad brush they might have plenty in common, but again, that is a different conversation and one i am not too qualified to speak strongly toward.


i doubt anybody would say that. at least nobody has in this thread. the question i'm primarily concerned with is whether islamic doctrine is being unfairly singled out for its archaic primitive teaching, which you want to attest contributes perhaps more than any other factor to violent religiously justified action. i stand by the position that this is more properly ad hoc justification for actions that would not be carried out under different socio-economic / geo-political circumstances.

I think this is a form of orientalism and racism. To think all these vastly different and separate cultures covering half the globe all having similar "socio-economic / geo-political circumstances" that lead to them having a religious terrorism problem. It's quite a ridiculous stance.

[LJJ]

Exactly

Over a long period of war and shelter, people tend to turn to faith..the young generation in particular who mostly come from rural areas without any education system, money or foresee able future can be vulnerable to terrorist organisations that use faith to recruit their personel. The question should be where these organisations get their weapon supply and cashflow from rather than the goat herders they force in to their system.

What do you mean with major systematic issues? Example?

For instance, all these terrorists believe that fighting for Islam, often using horrific methods, is the most honourable thing they can do in life. They also believe that anyone who isn't a Muslim is a valid target, an acceptable enemy.

You will say this isn't mainstream Islamic teaching and you would be right, but at the very least it's abundantly clear that mainstream Islamic teachings can very easily mutate into an extremists stance where committing violence against innocent civilians to "defend Islam" is legitimate and appropriate. That is a systemic problem in Islam, and to say it has anything to do with socio-economic status is just disregarding the many fact that highlight this problem.

[9erempiree]

Definitely a systemic problem and the events that have recently occurred is proof. Islamic violence isn't an isolated incident because it is happening everywhere in the world. Lets all agree to this because there is no denying it.

What just happened in Tennessee is proof that Islam is a huge problem. Who would of expect, a bright young educated Muslim, to commit these acts? It is telling how dangerous Islam can be, when an educated 1st world citizen can be influenced and nobody saw it coming.

The gunman was some normal dude that you would expect to find on ISH or even in the Ramadan thread. Islam is a worldwide problem that does not discriminate, it attracts 3rd world extremists to domestic middle-class university students.

[Patrick Chewing]

7. Why are the practices and teachings in your religion so rigid and oppressive? The fasting, the punishments, covering women up, against free speech and expression etc etc

Why are the practices and teachings in Hasidic Judaism so rigid and oppressive? The fasting, the punishments, covering women up, against free speech and expression etc etc

Every religion is different.


This is what's troubling about Droid's answer. Him, and a lot of Muslims do this. They deflect onto something else. In essence, by bringing up Hasidic Judaism and its practices, he is admitting that yes, Islam is oppressive and subjugates its women.

[9erempiree]

Deflection and getting on the defensive does not help their cause. You would think that since all of us post on ISH, they would try to make us understand but all they have been doing is deflecting and getting on the defensive.

I think I have more respect for the guy that answered the OP than the rest of them on here, even though he gave real vague responses.

[iamgine]

Not true. The Quran, yes, was supposedly dictated by the Archangel Gabriel and is thus the direct word of God; the Bible never makes such claims, and the word itself means 'library' or collection of books - tis a combination of poetry, history, allegory, and prophesy, and each needs to be read differently. No educated Christian will tell you the Bible is 'the word of God.'

It's a travesty that children are no longer taught the Bible at school, for it is very much the basis for the English language, and the works of individuals like Shakespeare and Milton can not be properly understood by people lacking that knowledge.
Umm...I said "they believe it is the word of God" which Christians do. It does not matter whether the book itself make such claims or not. I don't know where you're getting your information from because the bible being "the living word of God" is one the fundamental basis of Christianity.

[RidonKs]

I think this is a form of orientalism and racism. To think all these vastly different and separate cultures covering half the globe all having similar "socio-economic / geo-political circumstances" that lead to them having a religious terrorism problem. It's quite a ridiculous stance.
:lol why don't we put each of our positions to them and see which they think is more racist and one track minded?

[pauk]

1. Do you want biblical/christian/old testament/whatever christian/catholic(whatever) laws/principles in your country? (If in a non Christian country)Why/why not?


2. Are the terrorists/criminals/psychos etc. who happen to be Christian justified in their actions and is everybody else partly to blame? Why?


3. Do you agree with fellow Christians demanding churches, meat certification, homosexuality, prostitution, alcohol, drugs, WHATEVER etc. in any countries? Why/why not?


4. Do you feel it's your duty to protest against senseless religious violence from Christians or do you watch on and approve of it? Keeping in mind that Christians have no issues in protesting for everything else. Why/why not?


5. Do you feel any sense of responsibility to other Christians becoming "radicalised" (=psychos) and do you think your community can do more to prevent Racists/Nazis/Cartels etc. "fighters" etc?
Why do you feel it's out of control? Is there issues level headed Christians can solve?


6. Are moderate Christians(I presume you)scared to speak out and take action against other Christians in fear of retaliation or threats?


7. Why are the practices and teachings in your religion so rigid and oppressive? The prey on the innocent, the base on fear, dishonesty, arrogance, cruelty, authoritarianism, anti-science/anti-intellectual, unhealthy pre-occupation with sex, homophobia, sexual misery, narrow legalistic view of morality, acceptance of real evils while focusing on imaginary evils, non reliability to Jesus teachings, misogyny, women behaving & dressing like whores, contradictions and slavery sanctions.... etc etc etc etc




Not trying to start a fight with anyone, I want to understand the mentality here, because for me I'm not convinced that this is all because of big bad America / World. There seems to be something systemically wrong in this religion and I hope I can understand it better from the Christians here.

Id appreciate an effort to answer these questions and respect you for at least giving it a go. Thanks


See how that works? ...and it works with any religion.

Remember, its only your own logic used against you, personally i think Christianity, Islam, Judaism all of it is great..... cant say the same about all PEOPLE, thats the real problem...

[LJJ]

:lol why don't we put each of our positions to them and see which they think is more racist and one track minded?

Yes let's. The connection I see is factual. You think some Uyghur person is going to deny that the thing that binds their culture most closely to that of Nigerian Muslims is the Koran? Your vague statement of Islamic terrorism being due to " similar socio-economic / geo-political circumstances" that apparently applies to every Islamic culture in the world, from that of the richest country to the poorest and from East-Asian to Dark African is just some Orientalist blabber.



Then, again, who do you know that you can actually put these questions to? I'm actually friends with some Iranian people, Africans, Turks, Malay, Indonesians, Uyghurs. Not immigrants, but people who live there. And I've been to many of these places and I'm aware of what they live through. I'm well travelled and diversely connected and my opinion is not build up from some preconceived notion.

I already know the answer that you have no actual clue about these people, no real life experience, just naive theories from within your utopian charmed life bubble.

[RidonKs]

Yes let's. The connection I see is factual. You think some Uyghur person is going to deny that the thing that binds their culture most closely to that of Nigerian Muslims is the Koran? Your vague statement of Islamic terrorism being due to " similar socio-economic / geo-political circumstances" that apparently applies to every Islamic culture in the world, from that of the richest country to the poorest and from East-Asian to Dark African is just some Orientalist blabber.



Then, again, who do you know that you can actually put these questions to? I'm actually friends with some Iranian people, Africans, Turks, Malay, Indonesians, Uyghurs. Not immigrants, but people who live there. And I've been to many of these places and I'm aware of what they live through. I'm well travelled and diversely connected and my opinion is not build up from some preconceived notion.

I already know the answer that you have no actual clue about these people, no real life experience, just naive theories from within your utopian charmed life bubble.
excluding immigrants, yeah you have me more or less pegged. i live in canada lol. i hope i can just ignore the rest of that. if you want to defend your position by saying you have spoken to a lot of people, well it's not really a very good argument.

though i'm not exactly painting myself into the corner by referring to socioeconomy and geopolitics, which are two broad far reaching concepts that can apply in similar ways to extremely different places. and pointing your finger at textual islamic tenets and saying that's the reason for all the terrorism around is just as reductionist, and if you like which i presume you don't, islamophobic.



and of course it isn't EVERY ISLAMIC CULTURE as you wrote, but merely a wide assortment of them. i suppose the exceptions make the rule in your eyes.

[LJJ]

excluding immigrants, yeah you have me more or less pegged. i live in canada lol. i hope i can just ignore the rest of that. if you want to defend your position by saying you have spoken to a lot of people, well it's not really a very good argument.

though i'm not exactly painting myself into the corner by referring to socioeconomy and geopolitics, which are two broad far reaching concepts that can apply in similar ways to extremely different places. and pointing your finger at textual islamic tenets and saying that's the reason for all the terrorism around is just as reductionist, and if you like which i presume you don't, islamophobic.



and of course it isn't EVERY ISLAMIC CULTURE as you wrote, but merely a wide assortment of them. i suppose the exceptions make the rule in your eyes.

Yes you can ignore the rest and say real insight, knowledge and experience don't count and simply cling to your Orientalist interpretation of the issue. That will do just fine. I had you pegged as what you are from the beginning.

[RidonKs]

Yes you can ignore the rest and say real insight, knowledge and experience don't count and simply cling to your Orientalist interpretation of the issue. That will do just fine. I had you pegged as what you are from the beginning.
i accept the superior diversity of your knowledge. i am a spoiled sheltered rotton dogmatic little man.

unfortunately we still disagree. you aren't saying much i haven't heard before. thus i can only conclude that you keep all your REAL insight, knowledge, and experience hidden away in a secret vault so that elitist philistines like myself can't get a good look see

peg away man. as far as i see it, your argument reduces to the listing of half a dozen factions/countries of islamic practitioners, each of which have some tangential association with extreme acts of terrorism. you want to say that since they're dispersed all over the world and very different in other respects, and since their only common denominator is their devotion to islam, we can therefore conclude that islam is the root or the cause or the catalyst or the underlying wellspring for all of that violence.

which of course is not necessarily so. primarily because the quran is just so enormous and covers so much that to reduce its common ground across cultures to the stuff about killing the infidel or w/e is a misplaced sentiment.

but hey feel free to tell me a story about the time you met a real muslim. i'm really starting to doubt your credibility.

[Dresta]

Umm...I said "they believe it is the word of God" which Christians do. It does not matter whether the book itself make such claims or not. I don't know where you're getting your information from because the bible being "the living word of God" is one the fundamental basis of Christianity.
No it isn't. Why do you insist on expounding on topics that you are completely ignorant of? It is mostly Evangelicals believe that nonsense, and they constitute a minority of Christians.

'Christians' are not a monolith, and many believe different things - the uniting factor is the belief in Christ as the saviour, not in the literalism of the Bible. If you haven't bothered to find out anything about the theological beliefs you moan about, then you should really keep your ignorant and ill-informed opinion to yourself.


this is one of the funniest things you've written
Why? It's completely true, and well accepted by most Christians that the 66 books of the Bible were written by an assortment of different men, and certainly not dictated by God from on high.

[RidonKs]

Why? It's completely true, and well accepted by most Christians that the 66 books of the Bible were written by an assortment of different men, and certainly not dictated by God from on high.
oh i definitely believe it. i just found it funny.

[LJJ]

i accept the superior diversity of your knowledge. i am a spoiled sheltered rotton dogmatic little man.

unfortunately we still disagree. you aren't saying much i haven't heard before. thus i can only conclude that you keep all your REAL insight, knowledge, and experience hidden away in a secret vault so that elitist philistines like myself can't get a good look see

peg away man. as far as i see it, your argument reduces to the listing of half a dozen factions/countries of islamic practitioners, each of which have some tangential association with extreme acts of terrorism. you want to say that since they're dispersed all over the world and very different in other respects, and since their only common denominator is their devotion to islam, we can therefore conclude that islam is the root or the cause or the catalyst or the underlying wellspring for all of that violence.

which of course is not necessarily so. primarily because the quran is just so enormous and covers so much that to reduce its common ground across cultures to the stuff about killing the infidel or w/e is a misplaced sentiment.

but hey feel free to tell me a story about the time you met a real muslim. i'm really starting to doubt your credibility.

No, it's not half a dozen "factions" (don't even know wtf you mean by faction in this context honestly). It's systemic, you can find this in every significant Islamic culture in the world. See here you go again with that Orientalism. "Oh so it's just in Africa, ME, Europe, East Asia, South Asia, South East Asia.... so like half a dozen factions". :rolleyes: Yeah bro, you are better off sticking to Canada in your own little comfy cocoon, really. Jon Snow.

And this stuff about religiously justifying violence isn't something that I merely assert, it's something the people doing the violence all say about themselves.

[RidonKs]

No, it's not half a dozen "factions" (don't even know wtf you mean by faction in this context honestly). It's systemic, you can find this in every significant Islamic culture in the world. See here you go again with that Orientalism. "Oh so it's just in Africa, ME, Europe, East Asia, South Asia, South East Asia.... so like half a dozen factions". :rolleyes: Yeah bro, you are better off sticking to Canada in your own little comfy cocoon, really. Jon Snow.

And this stuff about religiously justifying violence isn't something that I merely assert, it's something the people doing the violence all say about themselves.
yeah. that's the religious justification. that's what i'm talking about.

faction/sect/group/culture/whatever the fk

usually im the one playing semantics

i'll stick to wherever the fk i want as long as its through a safe ish proxy




so you're saying you can find the exact same issues in every single 'significant' islamic culture in the world? that i find difficult to believe and presumably a leap into generalization. i don't think i need to name examples.

[LJJ]

so you're saying you can find the exact same issues in every single 'significant' islamic culture in the world?

Absolutely, without question.

[RidonKs]

Absolutely, without question.
could you boil those issues into like a half dozen larger categories so i know exactly what you're talking about or is that too stringent an expectation for such a diverse array of people?

[LJJ]

Let's just stick to an undercurrent of religious extremism justifying and glorifying acts of (and in the majority directly causing) violence for now.

[RidonKs]

Let's just stick to an undercurrent of religious extremism justifying and glorifying acts of (and in the majority directly causing) violence for now.
do we agree that for islamic doctrine to be at the root of everything, time is as important a variable to be considered as place? in other words, is it not implicit in your argument that islamic terrorism cannot be a recent phenomenon given its ~1500 year history?

furthermore, do you believe islamic extremist violence has been a fairly consistent occurrence since its origin, so that at any given time in that history, we can find a similar selection of cases exhibiting the undercurrent to which you refer? or does the terrorism ebb and flow in popularity, depending on a wide variety of international and environmental factors?

all of these questions asked without any agenda on facts of the matter. as you know i presume nothing. :pimp:

[Patrick Chewing]

There's been Islamic terrorism since the inception of the religion. Islam is a totalitarian ideology. There was never meant to be any other religion but Islam in the eyes of Mohammed and his immediate followers.

[LJJ]

do we agree that for islamic doctrine to be at the root of everything, time is as important a variable to be considered as place? in other words, is it not implicit in your argument that islamic terrorism cannot be a recent phenomenon given its ~1500 year history?

furthermore, do you believe islamic extremist violence has been a fairly consistent occurrence since its origin, so that at any given time in that history, we can find a similar selection of cases exhibiting the undercurrent to which you refer? or does the terrorism ebb and flow in popularity, depending on a wide variety of international and environmental factors?

all of these questions asked without any agenda on facts of the matter. as you know i presume nothing. :pimp:

First of all, I said Islam has a systemic problem with extremism where the religion can be used to justify violence against civilians and lead people down a path of terrorism, and that it's obviously a contributing factor in all Islamic terrorism. I never said it's the root of everything or whatever, that's something you argue against in your own head to feel good. It's one consistent element in a wide sea of different causes for wildly different situations.

Secondly yes, Islamic societies have always had an undercurrent or often even upper-current of violent extremism. But the world used to be more violent in general, and societies were also a lot more self-contained and homogeneous, knowledge was restricted, freedom was a lot more restricted. So it's impossible to draw a direct comparison.

[RidonKs]

First of all, I said Islam has a systemic problem with extremism where the religion can be used to justify violence against civilians and lead people down a path of terrorism, and that it's obviously a contributing factor in all Islamic terrorism. I never said it's the root of everything or whatever, that's something you argue against in your own head to feel good. It's one consistent element in a wide sea of different causes for wildly different situations.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm


Yet they all have the exact same, huge problems with religious extremism and committing religious violence... with Islam as... the root cause every time.

[LJJ]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Petulant child. :lol

This was the sentence:


with Islam as a huge part of the root cause every time.

It's always part of the root cause. It's never the root cause of everything. Exactly what I said. You are pathetic, literally snipping words mid sentence.

[RidonKs]

this has been fun ljj


next day edit: for the record, i am in 100% agreement with this

First of all, I said Islam has a systemic problem with extremism where the religion can be used to justify violence against civilians and lead people down a path of terrorism, and that it's obviously a contributing factor in all Islamic terrorism.

[iamgine]

No it isn't. Why do you insist on expounding on topics that you are completely ignorant of? It is mostly Evangelicals believe that nonsense, and they constitute a minority of Christians.

'Christians' are not a monolith, and many believe different things - the uniting factor is the belief in Christ as the saviour, not in the literalism of the Bible. If you haven't bothered to find out anything about the theological beliefs you moan about, then you should really keep your ignorant and ill-informed opinion to yourself.


Why? It's completely true, and well accepted by most Christians that the 66 books of the Bible were written by an assortment of different men, and certainly not dictated by God from on high.
Holy crap you seem to really believe this. Evangelicals are minority? And calling others ignorant on top of that. Hey man, I thought you're supposed to be somewhat smart. I feel like you're just trolling here. :lol

[BigNBAfan]

i bet all these muslims here smell like shit because they're not allowed to wear deodorant...

[brownmamba00]

i bet all these muslims here smell like shit because they're not allowed to wear deodorant...
Your mom didn't mind it

[RidonKs]

Holy crap you seem to really believe this. Evangelicals are minority? And calling others ignorant on top of that. Hey man, I thought you're supposed to be somewhat smart. I feel like you're just trolling here. :lol
evangelicals are a clear minority in christendom. check the numbers.

though it's difficult to define, since there are two extremes which seem equally relevant; pious activity and identifying as born again. there are a lot of people who by all appearances are not remotely religious, then you ask them, and they launch into a 45 minute story of how they found eternal jesus at 15 years old. tough nut to crack.

[brownmamba00]

For instance, all these terrorists believe that fighting for Islam, often using horrific methods, is the most honourable thing they can do in life. They also believe that anyone who isn't a Muslim is a valid target, an acceptable enemy.

You will say this isn't mainstream Islamic teaching and you would be right, but at the very least it's abundantly clear that mainstream Islamic teachings can very easily mutate into an extremists stance where committing violence against innocent civilians to "defend Islam" is legitimate and appropriate. That is a systemic problem in Islam, and to say it has anything to do with socio-economic status is just disregarding the many fact that highlight this problem.
That's where these brainwashers come in to play...no where in the Qur'an is there any mention of killing and causing violence being rewarded in the after life.

Jihad can have many meanings but it does give Muslims the right to defend themselves only when attacked and the Qur'an commands to lay down weapons when the agressor quits coming at them but Jihad also means the inner struggle of a person.

[Dresta]

Holy crap you seem to really believe this. Evangelicals are minority? And calling others ignorant on top of that. Hey man, I thought you're supposed to be somewhat smart. I feel like you're just trolling here. :lol
It doesn't take smarts to recognise something so obvious. I'd be surprised if the majority of Christians had even read the Bible, start to finish, which i think tells you something about whether they consider it the literal word of God or not. If you really think it is a majority that believe in talking snakes and what-not, then i really don't know what to tell you :lol

Anyway, you don't have to take my word for it:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2014/12/creationism_poll_how_many_americans_believe_the_bi ble_is_literal_inerrant.html


How many people are truly hardcore creationists? For that, you have to look at certainty across a range of statements. Hill’s data show a high correlation in responses to four propositions: that God created the world in six 24-hour days, that God created humans miraculously, that humans didn’t evolve from other life forms, and that Adam and Eve were real people. Sixteen percent of respondents said they were absolutely or very certain about all four of those beliefs. That’s the hardcore. And even that core isn’t as hard as advertised. Ask whether humans have been around for only 10,000 years, and the hardcore—those who are absolutely or very certain on all five questions—shrinks to 7 percent.

FYI, to believe the Bible to be the literal word of God, one would have to believe all those things strongly. And this is in America, one of the most fanatical and unthinking Christian nations on the planet.

[iamgine]

It doesn't take smarts to recognise something so obvious. I'd be surprised if the majority of Christians had even read the Bible, start to finish, which i think tells you something about whether they consider it the literal word of God or not. If you really think it is a majority that believe in talking snakes and what-not, then i really don't know what to tell you :lol

Anyway, you don't have to take my word for it:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2014/12/creationism_poll_how_many_americans_believe_the_bi ble_is_literal_inerrant.html



FYI, to believe the Bible to be the literal word of God, one would have to believe all those things strongly. And this is in America, one of the most fanatical and unthinking Christian nations on the planet.
Um, no one's talking about taking everything in the bible literally. Since Jesus (y'know, THE Lord God for Christians) himself uses a lot of metaphors in the bible. Christians don't think that everything in the bible is taken literally, but it being the word of God is a fundamental basis in the belief.

[iamgine]

evangelicals are a clear minority in christendom. check the numbers.

though it's difficult to define, since there are two extremes which seem equally relevant; pious activity and identifying as born again. there are a lot of people who by all appearances are not remotely religious, then you ask them, and they launch into a 45 minute story of how they found eternal jesus at 15 years old. tough nut to crack.
And...that is considered a real Christian?

ok lets consider someone from china who has never watched a game and only knows Yao a real NBA fan.

[9erempiree]

Here is a great article.....

http://www.arabnews.com/columns/news/778451

We are our own worst enemies

[QUOTE]I shuddered on Thursday evening when I heard the news that a gunman had opened fire at a US military recruitment center in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

[Patrick Chewing]

^ I'm afraid this guy's call for help and change will fall on deaf ears. I can foresee an America getting hurt for one last time before it becomes open season on Muslims in this country.

The Japanese can tell you a little something about how serious we are during times of war. Look how straightened out they got. The United States will never get to Europe's level. To me, Europe is lost. The one huge advantage America has over radical Islamists is that we, the citizens, can take matter into our own hands with our 2nd amendment right, and smoke the rats out and mow 'em down one by one.

[9erempiree]

I have faith in mankind and I have no doubt we can combat Islam. When push comes to shove, mankind has shown its love and affection for one another, we will overcome evil.

[sick_brah07]

In my time on earth i have noticed that all people who are strong religious followers are just weak minded people who need to feel apart of something ... a lot of peoole wake up and step away from it .. any country that has any religion as law gets absolutely no where because all the people with half a brain if intelligence tend to leave

[brownmamba00]

The real threat to humanity is Zionism. The Zionists have all the money, all the power, nuclear weapons, run the media, fund the wars etc.....yet were being led to believe that a bunch of machete wielding, rock throwing, camel jockeys training on monkey bars are going to destroy the planet. Thats exactly what they want us to believe.
true

[Nick Young]

https://muhammadhakeem.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/oziermuhammad.jpg
http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/12/10/catstevens_narrowweb__300x415,0.jpg
http://esl-bits.net/listening/Media/2013-02-12/Muslims_and_Jews/funny-jewish-muslim-friends.jpg
http://popchassid.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/201394141953688580_20.jpg
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2014-07-20-Thankstomuslimvillage.jpg
#notallmuslims

[RidonKs]

The real threat to humanity is Zionism. The Zionists have all the money, all the power, nuclear weapons, run the media, fund the wars etc.....yet were being led to believe that a bunch of machete wielding, rock throwing, camel jockeys training on monkey bars are going to destroy the planet. Thats exactly what they want us to believe.
:facepalm

[RidonKs]

https://muhammadhakeem.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/oziermuhammad.jpg
http://api.ning.com/files/8VY3GU-eF2*Qs*Fb*acaHvu4vp18JV3YhR6o-smKYtH24QM99l7YEOdmO7tzi5S3NdNchdC3qLZ1gUDubEHii1r dAce*KrIU/muslimjewbangladeshisubw.jpg
http://popchassid.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/201394141953688580_20.jpg
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2014-07-20-Thankstomuslimvillage.jpg
#notallmuslims
the dream ain't dead folks, he's still got a shtick he feels comfortable hasn't been run into the ground yet!!

[Nick Young]

http://www.interfaithshaadi.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Muslim-Hindu-Christian-kids.jpg
http://www.zawaj.com/askbilqis/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/pic-friends-muslim-christian.jpg
https://lstcccme.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/good-friday-bonds-uk-muslims-christians_.jpg
#onelove #oneworld #notallmuslims

[Patrick Chewing]

I see, Nick. Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. ;)

[SCdac]

The real threat to humanity is Zionism. The Zionists have all the money, all the power, nuclear weapons, run the media, fund the wars etc.....yet were being led to believe that a bunch of machete wielding, rock throwing, camel jockeys training on monkey bars are going to destroy the planet. Thats exactly what they want us to believe.

Hitler would be so proud of this conspiracy theory driven fear mongering... The Jews are taking over!! ... er, the "zionists", excuse me

[STATUTORY]

The real threat to humanity is Zionism. The Zionists have all the money, all the power, nuclear weapons, run the media, fund the wars etc.....yet were being led to believe that a bunch of machete wielding, rock throwing, camel jockeys training on monkey bars are going to destroy the planet. Thats exactly what they want us to believe.

:facepalm :facepalm

[SCdac]

And...that is considered a real Christian?

ok lets consider someone from china who has never watched a game and only knows Yao a real NBA fan.

Many Muslims barely even go to mosque, yet they strongly identify with Islam, which is totally fine. Same for other religions and ethnicities. Many Jews barely go to synagogue, but it is still a strong part of their lives. In reality, most religious people are not hard core fundamentalists. At least in America.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

The real threat to humanity is Zionism. The Zionists have all the money, all the power, nuclear weapons, run the media, fund the wars etc.....yet were being led to believe that a bunch of machete wielding, rock throwing, camel jockeys training on monkey bars are going to destroy the planet. Thats exactly what they want us to believe.


true

Will neg. So much stupid.

[Trollsmasher]

Not true. The Quran, yes, was supposedly dictated by the Archangel Gabriel and is thus the direct word of God; the Bible never makes such claims, and the word itself means 'library' or collection of books - tis a combination of poetry, history, allegory, and prophesy, and each needs to be read differently. No educated Christian will tell you the Bible is 'the word of God.'

It's a travesty that children are no longer taught the Bible at school, for it is very much the basis for the English language, and the works of individuals like Shakespeare and Milton can not be properly understood by people lacking that knowledge.
the word of truth

comparing Bible and Quran is the highest act of cretinism

[9erempiree]

7 pages of nothing.

They don't do well in casual/civil discussions.