Excellent article on D'Angelo Russell's turnovers in the SL

[Lakers Fan]

Good for those who didn't watch the games and only saw the box scores.




It's no secret that D'Angelo Russell of the Los Angeles Lakers struggled at Las Vegas Summer League. Despite his 11.8 points, 5.2 rebounds and 3.2 assists per game, Los Angeles stumbled to a 1-4 record.

More alarming, however, was Russell's penchant for coughing up the ball—he turned the ball over on 27.4 percent of his possessions, according to Synergy Sports, the sixth-highest rate among all players across all 2015 NBA Summer Leagues (minimum 50 possessions used ending in a field-goal attempt, drawn foul or turnover)."

........

If we divide the turnover statistic into "aggressive" and "passive," we can shed a bit of light on whether a player's tendency to lose possession can be corrected.

A turnover is termed as "aggressive" if it occurs while an offensive player is trying to make a play. Maybe he's driving to the rim and gets stripped; maybe he gets in deep and tries to thread the needle but the ball gets poked away. These turnovers, while harmful because they take away possession, stem from a player's ability and willingness to create points for his team.

A "passive" turnover is just the opposite: a lazy pass on the perimeter, for example, or a player who gets his pocket picked by a defender who is clearly dominating his space. Passive turnovers are generally mental mistakes or instances of defensive superiority over the offensive player

Of Russell's 26 turnovers at summer league, 17 were aggressive. Most of those 17 derived from his passing, and, in particular, trying to fit the ball into tight spaces.

Russell's ball distribution is one of the most attractive parts of his game. His ability to both see and create passing angles is remarkably advanced for such a young player. But the consequence of this talent is being turnover prone, and part of Russell's development will be understanding when to unleash his talents.

On a recently assembled Lakers summer league team, he played with teammates that were not used to his style.

Drew Garrison over at Silver Screen and Roll addressed this problem:

[Russell] made several pinpoint passes that didn't even seem possible, only to watch his teammates fail to finish or even get more than a few fingertips on the ball. There were at least two sequences in every game that he set the table beautifully without any payoff. That should hopefully change with better talent around him, and with the Lakers getting familiar with the kinds of passes they need to be ready for.

........

Over five games in Las Vegas, Russell was rarely forced into turnovers. That he committed turnovers in this aggressive style means that he is more than capable of toning it down.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2527822-should-dangelo-russells-summer-league-game-have-los-angeles-lakers-concerned

[outbreak]

Alot that i saw were just unnecessary passes. Game was too quick for him give him time to adapt

[Cocaine80s]

Unfortunately he will still be playing with scrubs during the regular season so I expect his turnovers to continue

[outbreak]

Unfortunately he will still be playing with scrubs during the regular season so I expect his turnovers to continue

He won't touch the ball though so he won't be able to turn it over.

[hawksdogsbraves]

I thought critics were making more noise about his slow as molasses first step rather than his turnovers :confusedshrug:

[senelcoolidge]

I saw forced passing. Trying to do too much. Too many turnovers will get you pulled out of games fast in the regular season and will hurt his confidence. Plus he's slow AF.

[3ball]

D'angelo Russell is a very interesting case that will teach us more about the way the game works.

I remember when Trey Burke was coming out of college - I didn't think he'd be a star because he lacked elite athleticism, which I think small guards need to be stars in the NBA (unless they are just spot-up shooters, and not playmakers).

But I thought that if a guy was 6'5" or taller, his athleticism didn't need to be elite for him to be a star - IF he had certain requisite skill that shows he's a truly skilled player (certain footwork while dribbling and certain essential moves that demonstrate an advanced skill) - D'Angelo seemed to have these things and be the type of tall, skilled player that wouldn't need elite athleticism to be a star.

But now I'm wondering if a 6'5" guy with great all-round skill still needs to have elite or near elite athleticism to be a star.. And I'm starting to think they do... To be a star without elite athleticism, you need to be 6'7" or taller it seems (i.e. Pierce, Magic... who were both more athletic than D'Angelo).

I'm going to say D'angelo will be decent, but not a star.. Pretty simple thinking... but most things in life end up being simple after you get through all the weeds

[Levity]

Let's also not forget that the offense they were running (or trying to run if were being honest) was abysmal and unnecessary, especially for a summer league filled with unseasoned players. Why on earth Madsen wanted his big men (randle, nance, and upshaw) to receive the ball around the 3 pt line is beyond me.

Institute a high pick and roll offense (which most rookie pgs this summer league got to run), and russel looks better tenfold.

[FireDavidKahn]

Every PG in the league has to deal with teammates not being able to finish every pass.:rolleyes:

[Braincells]

Let's also not forget that the offense they were running (or trying to run if were being honest) was abysmal and unnecessary, especially for a summer league filled with unseasoned players. Why on earth Madsen wanted his big men (randle, nance, and upshaw) to receive the ball around the 3 pt line is beyond me.

Institute a high pick and roll offense (which most rookie pgs this summer league got to run), and russel looks better tenfold.

Madsen was probably following Scott's orders. I agree that the offense they are running is very archaic and needs to be tossed. Hopefully Byron comes to his senses and ditches the Princeton.

That being said, it's still summer league. Glenn Rice Jr should have been a superstar last year if we are going by SL metrics. It's crazy hard to predict how players will turn out.

[ClipperRevival]

D'angelo Russell is a very interesting case that will teach us more about the way the game works.

I remember when Trey Burke was coming out of college - I didn't think he'd be a star because he lacked elite athleticism, which I think small guards need to be stars in the NBA (unless they are just spot-up shooters, and not playmakers).

But I thought that if a guy was 6'5" or taller, his athleticism didn't need to be elite for him to be a star - IF he had certain requisite skill that shows he's a truly skilled player (certain footwork while dribbling and certain essential moves that demonstrate an advanced skill) - D'Angelo seemed to have these things and be the type of tall, skilled player that wouldn't need elite athleticism to be a star.

But now I'm wondering if a 6'5" guy with great all-round skill still needs to have elite or near elite athleticism to be a star.. And I'm starting to think they do... To be a star without elite athleticism, you need to be 6'7" or taller it seems (i.e. Pierce, Magic... who were both more athletic than D'Angelo).

I'm going to say D'angelo will be decent, but not a star.. Pretty simple thinking... but most things in life end up being simple after you get through all the weeds

He's got pretty heavy feet and lacks any suddenness. That's a big worry. His skills, vision, passing abilities, feel for the game and shooting would have to be way up there for him to be an impactful player. Otherwise, he will probably struggle to get any separation against defenders. But it does seem like his skill level is pretty special. So like you said, it makes for an interesting situation.

[HOoopCityJones]

Let's also not forget that the offense they were running (or trying to run if were being honest) was abysmal and unnecessary, especially for a summer league filled with unseasoned players. Why on earth Madsen wanted his big men (randle, nance, and upshaw) to receive the ball around the 3 pt line is beyond me.

Institute a high pick and roll offense (which most rookie pgs this summer league got to run), and russel looks better tenfold.

This.

Mark Madsen's implementation of the offense is atrocious.

[ClipperRevival]

D'angelo Russell is a very interesting case that will teach us more about the way the game works.

I remember when Trey Burke was coming out of college - I didn't think he'd be a star because he lacked elite athleticism, which I think small guards need to be stars in the NBA (unless they are just spot-up shooters, and not playmakers).

But I thought that if a guy was 6'5" or taller, his athleticism didn't need to be elite for him to be a star - IF he had certain requisite skill that shows he's a truly skilled player (certain footwork while dribbling and certain essential moves that demonstrate an advanced skill) - D'Angelo seemed to have these things and be the type of tall, skilled player that wouldn't need elite athleticism to be a star.

But now I'm wondering if a 6'5" guy with great all-round skill still needs to have elite or near elite athleticism to be a star.. And I'm starting to think they do... To be a star without elite athleticism, you need to be 6'7" or taller it seems (i.e. Pierce, Magic... who were both more athletic than D'Angelo).

I'm going to say D'angelo will be decent, but not a star.. Pretty simple thinking... but most things in life end up being simple after you get through all the weeds

3ball,

See, you are much better to read when you don't try to push your MJ agenda down our throats. If you just tried to be objective (like above) and talk about other topics besides MJ, that would be better.

[HOoopCityJones]

He's got pretty heavy feet and lacks any suddenness. That's a big worry. His skills, vision, passing abilities, feel for the game and shooting would have to be way up there for him to be an impactful player. Otherwise, he will probably struggle to get any separation against defenders. But it does seem like his skill level is pretty special. So like you said, it makes for an interesting situation.

This is why I wanted Okafor when we were having those discussions about who to pick at number two way back when. Too many unknowns, and "what ifs" with D'angelo, I get that nowadays the new trend is to draft off potential as opposed to instant impact, but Ive always known Okafor would be at least a 15 and 10 big right out the gate.

Now we have to sit here and gamble three or four years away hoping this kid can at least become the next Kyle Lowry.

[3ball]

3ball,

See, you are much better to read when you don't try to push your MJ agenda down our throats.

If you just tried to be objective (like above) and talk about other topics besides MJ, that would be better.


I'm objective about MJ - every single one of my posts about Jordan use LOGIC and FACTS - none of them are dumb stan, fan posts.

You guys are the ones that are forced to refute the facts I present with opinion and fabricated exceptions to the rule, that only prove the rule..

(but i understand that most of the delusion seen by posters who refute my posts, is due to stubborness and annoyance from my incessant MJ-worship - i get it).
.

[ClipperRevival]

This is why I wanted Okafor when we were having those discussions about who to pick at number two way back when. Too many unknowns, and "what ifs" with D'angelo, I get that nowadays the new trend is to draft off potential as opposed to instant impact, but Ive always known Okafor would be at least a 15 and 10 big right out the gate.

Now we have to sit here and gamble three or four years away hoping this kid can at least become the next Kyle Lowry.

All is not lost. He seems to have special vision and feel for the game. That could carry him far. Also, I like his shot. It looks right. So if all of that falls into place, he could still be an impactful player. His ceiling isn't a Harden or Curry simply because he lacks any suddenness. So his calling card will be a passing savant who can shoot the 3. And with his height, he could also develop a post up game and work on the shorter PGs of the league. But yeah, it would've been great if he had quicker feet so he could have a higher ceiling.

[WorldWarriors]

Did he look particularly slow in college? I'm not so sure his slowness is due to lack of quickness or if its mental (thinking too much before making a move) I guess I'll see soon enough.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Did he look particularly slow in college? I'm not so sure his slowness is due to lack of quickness or if its mental (thinking too much before making a move) I guess I'll see soon enough.

I mean he's not that slow, he's just not as quick as most of the elite guards of the NBA.

Also you don't need to be quick to dominate in college anyway, ask Jimmer.

[Fire Colangelo]

D'angelo Russell is a very interesting case that will teach us more about the way the game works.

I remember when Trey Burke was coming out of college - I didn't think he'd be a star because he lacked elite athleticism, which I think small guards need to be stars in the NBA (unless they are just spot-up shooters, and not playmakers).

But I thought that if a guy was 6'5" or taller, his athleticism didn't need to be elite for him to be a star - IF he had certain requisite skill that shows he's a truly skilled player (certain footwork while dribbling and certain essential moves that demonstrate an advanced skill) - D'Angelo seemed to have these things and be the type of tall, skilled player that wouldn't need elite athleticism to be a star.

But now I'm wondering if a 6'5" guy with great all-round skill still needs to have elite or near elite athleticism to be a star.. And I'm starting to think they do... To be a star without elite athleticism, you need to be 6'7" or taller it seems (i.e. Pierce, Magic... who were both more athletic than D'Angelo).

I'm going to say D'angelo will be decent, but not a star.. Pretty simple thinking... but most things in life end up being simple after you get through all the weeds

Holy shit, good post 3ball :applause:

[WorldWarriors]

I mean he's not that slow, he's just not as quick as most of the elite guards of the NBA.

Also you don't need to be quick to dominate in college anyway, ask Jimmer. LOL Ok.

[ClipperRevival]

Did he look particularly slow in college? I'm not so sure his slowness is due to lack of quickness or if its mental (thinking too much before making a move) I guess I'll see soon enough.

He played against slower defenders in college so his lack of quickness wasn't as glaring. He can improve on his quickness a bit with training but you either have light feet or you don't.