wade vs clyde drexler

[mehyaM24]

who's the 4th best sg behind jordan west and kobe.

i take everything into account: so clyde's lack of an off-hand (he rarely went left which made him predictable in certain situations) & weak ball handling which meant he couldn't break someone down off the dribble like a mitch richmond or sprewell could. how much it limited him? not really sure. maybe some older hoop heads can elaborate on that. on wade's end, his injuries, lack of work ethic and inability to adjust his game as his athleticism has faded (wasn't a top 40 player via rapm).

they're clearly the 4th and 5th best sg's though. in what order though?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Obviously if Clyde didn't have to face Jordan, he would have been the best SG by far. He'd be the best SG today as well, but I would still take the risk of Wade getting injured if it meant having his 2005, 2006, 2009 and 2011 seasons where he was REALLY REALLY good, and probably better than Drexler.

[superteamtheory]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MkPZWiPitA

but like Wade, Clyde couldn't win it without another superstar or ATG type talent..

otherwise, Glide is superior in most respects.. (just scoring really, they're about equal? Clyde might even be better there?) does some things in blaze's video I've never seen Wade do / he won't ever do..

[mehyaM24]

Obviously if Clyde didn't have to face Jordan, he would have been the best SG by far. He'd be the best SG today as well, but I would still take the risk of Wade getting injured if it meant having his 2005, 2006, 2009 and 2011 seasons where he was REALLY REALLY good, and probably better than Drexler.
the best sg in the 90s you mean? i agree.

to me wade's 2006 campaign was overrated. lots of freethrows in a shady finals where the nba still wasn't sure on how to call the game.....with handchecking being banned. alonzo mourning called kobe the best player in the league that year, this after the heat won their first title in franchise history, and wade supposedly had one of "greatest finals ever".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MkPZWiPitA

but like Wade, Clyde couldn't win it without another superstar or ATG type talent..

otherwise, Glide is superior in most respects.. (just scoring really, they're about equal? Clyde might even be better there?) does some things in blaze's video I've never seen Wade do / he won't ever do..

cool video bud. i saw blaze post it a few months back. clyde was EASILY more crafty and had more feel for the game if we're just talking fundamentals. wade still has a broken jumper.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Yeah best sg in the 90's is what I meant.

And while Wade's 2006 finals were a joke far as FT's go, he was still damn good in other areas. It wasn't Jordan in 1993 all over again, but you can't deny he took over in that series.

[mehyaM24]

Yeah best sg in the 90's is what I meant.

And while Wade's 2006 finals were a joke far as FT's go, he was still damn good in other areas. It wasn't Jordan in 1993 all over again, but you can't deny he took over in that series.

agree to disagree. wade was good. and did have some momemnts where he "took over", but i really felt the refs swayed that series - as did mark cuban, who hired a federal agent to do an investigation.

[superteamtheory]

cool video bud. i saw blaze post it a few months back. clyde was EASILY more crafty and had more feel for the game if we're just talking fundamentals. wade still has a broken jumper.

this video makes it even clearer b/c you see more of the passing skill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7cQWV28N_E
averages between 7-8 apg for 4 straight seasons..

and Clyde was not only a good rebounder (in 94 season averages a double double!) but a reliable defender throughout his career.. i know Wade had D in flashes but not as consistent tho Wade was, for whatever reason, a comparable shotblocker or maybe even better at his position which is amazing for Wade's size..

all things considered, Clyde I got as roughly 23-25th best ever, Wade is more like 27-29..

[superteamtheory]

Wade's a better shooter (broken jumper or not), explaining (along with Miami having no other options for a while) the higher ppg..

[mehyaM24]

Wade's a better shooter (broken jumper or not), explaining (along with Miami having no other options for a while) the higher ppg..
was he though? because glide was elite from midrange, and while he was an average 3PT shooter, he had better shooting seasons from beyond the arc & the freethrow line than wade ever did.

i think wade having a higher ppg has to do with the teams he played on, as you mentioned, and the fact the nba has eliminated handchecking.

2000-2004 is probably the goat era of defense tbqh

[G0ATbe]

I have Wade 2nd best after Kobe. Clyde would probably be 4th best after Jordan, though it's close between him and West.

[ClipperRevival]

I like Drexler but I think Wade was clearly better. Wade reached heights Drexler never did. He had a higher peak and impacted the game more. He was a more dominant scorer, better at breaking down defenders and getting to the basket and won a chip as "the man" in one of the most dominant individual performances in an NBA Finals series.

[SouBeachTalents]

Not saying it isn't close, but I don't see what argument Drexler really has over Wade

Peak Wade ('05-'11)
RS: 27/5/7 49%
PS: 27/6/6 49%

Peak Drexler ('86-'92)
RS: 24/7/6 49%
PS: 23/7/7 46%

All-NBA Teams
Wade: 8 (2 first teams)
Drexler: 5 (1 first team)

All-Defensive Teams
Wade: 3
Drexler: 0

Scoring titles
Wade: 1
Drexler: 0

Finals MVP's
Wade: 1
Drexler: 0

It's hard to look at the above and argue Drexler was actually better than Wade

[superteamtheory]

I like Drexler but I think Wade was clearly better. Wade reached heights Drexler never did. He had a higher peak and impacted the game more. He was a more dominant scorer, better at breaking down defenders and getting to the basket and won a chip as "the man" in one of the most dominant individual performances in an NBA Finals series.

Wade at his peak (somewhere around 2009) is better than peak Drex IMO (just like MVP Barkley was totally amazing for at least that one year) but on the whole…

Drexler would have been The Man vs. 2006 Mavs too. … Drex & his deep Blazers could have handled that just-average-great Mavs roster. … 1990 Bad Boys & 1992 Jordan-Pippen… legendary combos he was coming up against…

When Wade met (the much improved) Mavs again in 2011, with Bron as the man now…

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201106120MIA.html

Jason Terry alone outplaying Dwyane Wade in a critical Finals elimination game… (EDIT: possibly due to injury, I have been reminded.)

but then again Bosh choked game 2 which Wade and Bron carried a crying Bosh through and LBJ had his Space Jam lost abilities game in game 4 which Wade tried to carry them through… so maybe it all evens out between those three that year… 2014 tho..

2014, Wade's falling apart at the seams, Drexler was winning an NBA championship around that age (actually what would have been Wade's 2015 season), he may be second option by then but Drexler held up well when needed… Wade as an aging player left Bron to be hung by the mob…

I can't fault a person for picking Wade b/c of higher scoring, peak years and how he would toss his body around fearlessly as a youngster… but me personally I value Drex having the better floor game and arguably better defence and various intangibles -- fundamentals might be all I mean but I feel like he was a character guy like Curry… not saying Wade isn't, but at least one Wade's antic (making fun of Dirk's cold) did hurt team at time (or at least did nothing to help their situation as the NBA's most villainized)..


was he though? because glide was elite from midrange, and while he was an average 3PT shooter, he had better shooting seasons from beyond the arc & the freethrow line than wade ever did.

i think wade having a higher ppg has to do with the teams he played on, as you mentioned, and the fact the nba has eliminated handchecking.

2000-2004 is probably the goat era of defense tbqh

lol… on second thought, you might be right…

handchecking *is* the #1 thing explaining scoring rises in general, not the paintcamping and yeah it is interesting that shortly after that rule comes in the Pistons go down to Wade…

(side digression because of 2000-2004 toughest defence comment: dunno about toughest but the Noughties in general had tougher defences than people remember, it's only recently that defence is really going out the window... but there are still some great individual defenders / teams that get how to play complex defence and those are the ones you typically meet in later playoffs and the Finals…)

maybe I need to see more Drexler shooting (I've seen a lot more Wade samplings) but my initial impression is Wade's size disadvantage holds his shot back at times (whereas Drexler has length) making the shooting abilities seem closer, more that Drex has natural ability there… that and Wade haphazardly jacks a lot over the years as does just about everyone in or around his generation = Drexler efficient FG% because he's smart/wise / better fundamentals / just the way it was those days... there are tough shots Wade has made that I'm not sure Drex would be able to, but then again Drex did make some tough shots and again has that Dr.J-Pippen length..


I have Wade 2nd best after Kobe. Clyde would probably be 4th best after Jordan, though it's close between him and West.

You are a rare breed… Can I ask you what your criteria would be? (ie. Kobe > Jordan or even moreso Wade > Jordan) ... :eek:

[ShawkFactory]

[QUOTE=superteamtheory]Wade at his peak (somewhere around 2009) is better than peak Drex IMO (just like MVP Barkley was totally amazing for at least that one year) but on the whole

[rezznor]

wade benefits ALOT from the rule changes. he wouldnt be nearly as effective in the 90s

[Wade's Rings]

Wade at his peak (somewhere around 2009) is better than peak Drex IMO (just like MVP Barkley was totally amazing for at least that one year) but on the whole…

Drexler would have been The Man vs. 2006 Mavs too. … Drex & his deep Blazers could have handled that just-average-great Mavs roster. … 1990 Bad Boys & 1992 Jordan-Pippen… legendary combos he was coming up against…

The 2006 Heat were nowhere as deep/talented as the early 1990s Blazers. Put Drexler on the 2006 Heat and then see if he wins the Chip. He went up against great Competition in 1990s but to act like the 2006 Heat hold a Candle to his Portland Teams :facepalm


When Wade met (the much improved) Mavs again in 2011, with Bron as the man now…

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201106120MIA.html

Wade was the man on the 2011 Heat. I love how you cherry pick Game 6 as if that was Game indicated what Wade did the whole Series. :facepalm Wade was hurt in that Game because Brian Cardinal hipchecked him in Game 5. Bring up Games 1-5 and Wade vs Bron's 4th Quarter Numbers for that series. Wade's impact was far greater than Lebron's.


Jason Terry alone outplaying Dwyane Wade in a critical Finals elimination game…

http://i.imgur.com/pmktzFF.jpg


but then again Bosh choked game 2 which Wade and Bron carried a crying Bosh through and LBJ had his Space Jam lost abilities game in game 4 which Wade tried to carry them through… so maybe it all evens out between those three that year… 2014 tho..

No Lebron choked Game 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL3Kz3DD1uQ



handchecking *is* the #1 thing explaining scoring rises in general, not the paintcamping and yeah it is interesting that shortly after that rule comes in the Pistons go down to Wade…

Why are you acting like the Rule Change is the reason why Wade beat the Pistons? In his ROOKIE Year Wade had a Series of 21/4/6 shooting 49% vs a Top 5 Defense with the DPOY Ron Artest. Wade with an improved jumpshot and better decision making would've still had success in the Handcheck Era. The Pistons just couldn't stop Wade...don't put them losing on the Rule Change.

[Wade's Rings]

wade benefits ALOT from the rule changes. he wouldnt be nearly as effective in the 90s

He would kill in any era.

[MEB2kDeez]

Wade.

[Mass Debator]

Wade's 35.3ppg per 100 possessions vs 28.5 (career)
Wade's 41.8ppg per 100 vs 33.5 (peak)

Drexler was never considered top 3 in the league if I can recall correctly. I remember one year he was 2nd in MVP voting to Jordan and took an okay cast to the finals with his teammate Terry Porter sometimes looking like the better player (especially in the Jazz series). Wade was the clear-cut best player in two finals that he was in and was held back from injuries his other two. Unquestionably to me, Wade is the better player when healthy. He did what Drexler did on offense but better. Both relied on a great mid-range to set up their drive. Drexler was taller but Wade was just more explosive. What really separated them was ball-handling. Drexler had a harder time to close because his was average at best.

Tier 1
MJ
Kobe

Tier 2
Wade
West

Tier 3
Drexler
Gervin
AI

[derb2k2]

this is no contest. I saw both and while I love Clyde and loved his game, he's nowhere near DWade's impact on the game.

:biggums: :biggums:

[aj1987]

LeBron stans... :facepalm


wade benefits ALOT from the rule changes. he wouldnt be nearly as effective in the 90s
Wade averaged 16/4/5 on 53% TS as a rookie in the '04 season. The last season with hand checking. Dude was hitting game winniners in the PO's and carried the team to the 2nd round as a freaking rookie. Just stop it. If you think that Wade wouldn't be "nearly as effective", Harden would be a D-League player in the '90's.

[AirFederer]

Wade, and it's not that close.

Wade has the stats, the rings, the fmvp etc over Clyde. But imho he also has/had the extra mental strength that Clyde never had. Imho DWade was also the better teamplayer/bbiq.

Both ATGs :cheers:

[3ball]

so clyde's lack of an off-hand (he rarely went left which made him predictable in certain situations) & weak ball handling which meant he couldn't break someone down off the dribble like a mitch richmond or sprewell could.



Clyde's right hand was so phenomenal, he didn't need to go left much - but Mitch Richmond and Sprewell could only dream of taking it this strong going left:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-24-2015/Liip4j.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-24-2015/7l1Xmp.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-26-2015/kqvozc.gif



Clyde smashes on the two greatest defenders of all time (for non-pfs or centers).. :bowdown: :


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-24-2015/KnfSPk.gif

[mehyaM24]

nice gifs 3ball - i don't think those guys were near as good finishing left, but what separates the other 2 is they had better HANDLES going left, and could pull up with ease doing so.

they're not better players - obviously. but more skilled in that regard.

who do you think is the greater sg btw? wade or glide?

[greatest-ever]

Not sure this is even really debatable at this point. 06, & 09-11 versions of Wade are better than any version of Drexler. The longevity ain't all that big an advantage for Drexler anyways. Wade is better, better scorer, probably better defensively when he would really lock in.

The OP has an anti-Wade agenda so it doesn't surprise me he leans Drexler or is undecided.

[mehyaM24]

Not sure this is even really debatable at this point. 06, & 09-11 versions of Wade are better than any version of Drexler. The longevity ain't all that big an advantage for Drexler anyways. Wade is better, better scorer, probably better defensively when he would really lock in.

The OP has an anti-Wade agenda so it doesn't surprise me he leans Drexler or is undecided.
there are MORE than a few that believe its debatable....

i don't have an agenda against wade either. some people just overrate him IMO - i will gladly rate him 4th or 5th all-time, at his position, so not sure what you're complaining about.

[Smoke117]

People saying the new rules made it easier for Wade should also be talking about the pace factor. When Drexler was averaging a career high 27ppg the Blazer were a run and gun team with a 103.9 pace...in 2009 when Wade was averaging 30ppg the Heat had a 89.9 pace. You'd have to be crazy to think Wade couldn't do what Drexler did rule changes are not playing way more up tempo like that. With his athleticism and skill a run and gun style would fit him perfectly.

[f0und]

there are MORE than a few that believe its debatable....

i don't have an agenda against wade either. some people just overrate him IMO - i will gladly rate him 4th or 5th all-time, at his position, so not sure what you're complaining about.

dude you're a bron stan. you've proven time and time again that everything you say is pro bron agenda driven.

[mehyaM24]

dude you're a bron stan. you've proven time and time again that everything you say is pro bron agenda driven.

:facepalm

with or without my thread, wade is 4th or 5th all-time at the sg slot. what could possibly be my agenda here?

[SHAQisGOAT]

EXTREMELY close but I'd go with Wade in terms of peak and overall career...

[mehyaM24]

EXTREMELY close but I'd go with Wade in terms of peak and overall career...
fair enough. who do you think has the better prime, and longevity thus far?

[3ball]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-24-2015/Liip4j.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-26-2015/kqvozc.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-24-2015/7l1Xmp.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-25-2015/46m9wH.gif


nice gifs 3ball - i don't think those guys were near as good finishing left, but what separates Richmond and Sprewell is they had better HANDLES going left



Going left is going left.. there's no special handle needed to drive left - the only things a player needs to get by his man is a quick first step and of course the ball control/coordination seen by Clyde in those gifs.

The extra dribbling that many guys do is uneccesary - did it help Richmond and Sprewell get by their man easier??

Hell no.. Drexler was far better at getting by his man - his first step was better than Richmond and Sprewell's - the GIFs and highlights show in very obvious fashion how much easier Drexler got by his man.






http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-25-2015/gcJQeU.gif


so Spree and Richmond could pull-up easier



Drexler's pull-up jumpshot was elite - not sure where you got the idea it wasn't.. Again, you don't need to pound the rock a ton to have a great pull-up jumper.

You should know that almost EVERY wing player back then had a great pull-up mid-range jumper... It was mandatory because there was no spacing/3-point shooting to draw defenders to the perimeter.. The resulting clogged paint prevented guys like MJ and Drexler from getting in the lane whenever they wanted, so they had to pull-up from mid-range frequently to have high scoring averages.

The mid-range pull-up was a STAPLE of every wing player's game back then (bird, alex english, bernard king, vandeweghe, you name it).
.

[TripleA]

Dwyane wade maybe the best slasher since Jordan in the nba gotta take him.

[3ball]

who do you think is the greater sg btw? wade or glide?


I forgot to answer your question about who was better..

Wade had a better peak, but Drexler performed much better in the 2nd half of their respective careers.. Also, there are many teams where Drexler would fit in much better - like alongside Lebron for example.

Alongside Lebron from 2011-2014, Wade (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game) averaged 20.3/5.2/4.3 on 48% in the playoffs.

This is better than Pippen's (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_per_game) 17.6/7.4/5.0 on 40% in 1996-1998 playoffs (at same age), but it doesn't compare to Drexler's (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/drexlcl01.html#1992-1995-sum:playoffs_per_game) 23/7/6 on 47% from 1992-1995 (at same age)..

Drexler's superior stats after 30 years old, and his off-ball game would be a superior fit alongside Lebron than Wade was.. Overall, I still go with Wade though, by a tad.

[iamgine]

I have Wade higher.

[ArbitraryWater]

Drexler was doing some near LeBron numbers for a good time there.. came close to 3 straight finals. Close call all time, as far as peak? Wade.

[aj1987]

I forgot to answer your question about who was better..

Wade had a better peak, but Drexler performed much better in the 2nd half of their respective careers.. Also, there are many teams where Drexler would fit in much better - like alongside Lebron for example.

Alongside Lebron from 2011-2014, Wade (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game) averaged 20.3/5.2/4.3 on 48% in the playoffs.

This is better than Pippen's (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_per_game) 17.6/7.4/5.0 on 40% in 1996-1998 playoffs (at same age), but it doesn't compare to Drexler's (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/drexlcl01.html#1992-1995-sum:playoffs_per_game) 23/7/6 on 47% from 1992-1995 (at same age)..

Drexler's superior stats after 30 years old, and his off-ball game would be a superior fit alongside Lebron than Wade was.. Overall, I still go with Wade though, by a tad.
No you didn't. You posted the same drivel in your earlier post. Removed it and put it in a new post to bump the thread. Moron.

[Kobe_6/8]

Peak Wade >>> Peak Drexler.

You have West over Kobe? West has 1 ring and is a career loser.

[superteamtheory]

wade benefits ALOT from the rule changes. he wouldnt be nearly as effective in the 90s

I can't see him scoring less than Drex in 90's... so yeah, he would at least be nearly as effective as Drex and the comparison between the two is a great one / a meaningful thread ..

and sorry to those I offended .. I didn't really mean to suggest refereeing trends altered the 2006 playoffs that much... just that it might be worth taking a look at to see if it had some effect... at the end of the day, I think Pistons just plain got beat by 06 Heat..

to the WadeRings guy, sorry I somehow totally forgot about that injury-by-humanbowlingball Cardinal, that's right, my bad.. I'll give that a pass then.. and that's a good vid of Bron's game 2 defence -- find me the behind the scenes footage of the mysterious "other person" (as Stephen A. Smith heard) he was having personal issues with prior to the Space Jam game 4, you are truly The Man...

also, one more thing, thought I was clear enough but I'm learning you gotta be crystal on these forums... when I said Drex's "deep Blazers" would "handle" the 06 Mavs, I thought it was gently implied they could beat the Heat (who were only 2 games better than those Mavs)... but you think 2006 Heat "couldn't hold a candlestick" to Drex's Blazers, like it'd be a sweep... I say no, you're thinking of the 90's Bulls...

Wade was F'n great in 2006 tho if that's all ya wanna hear... Peaks are important to note but in the bigger picture I don't believe 1 year clinches it (when Drex could have been if not as great then at least very great vs. Mavs too) but if you do, alrite, cool.. I'm guessing tho you're also taking Wade's 2009-2011 into big consideration ... fair nuff. I don't think Wade was as much the man on 2011 team as you believe (if he was, Heat would have won) ... I don't believe 2011 Heat had a clear cut leader yet (or even a fully fleshed roster).. so Pat Riley was at least right for telling Bron it had to be him going forward and I hope Bron said back to him tho: Sure but like, can you get us a decent point guard? A center of some sort? A bit of depth? That might be a team..

((To Riley's credit, he then proceeded to do just that in 2012, Bron was better in 2012, everybody went home happy when the conditions were right...
but digression: Riley, maybe as an ex-Laker, then suffered from Kupchakism again after 2013, thinking he had 2014 in the bag despite Wade clearly showing some signs of slowing and Bosh never emerging as much more than an obviously distant third wheel (like, ya know, Dave Debusschere for Knicks, no offence glad he made HOF but people talk about Reed & Frazier mostly... if it's prime Dwight Howard, Anthony Davis or Blake Griffin making up that Heat Big 3, okay then they really were the Monstars))...

[greatest-ever]

Wade had a better peak, but Drexler performed much better in the 2nd half of their respective careers.. Also, there are many teams where Drexler would fit in much better - like alongside Lebron for example.

Alongside Lebron from 2011-2014, Wade (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game) averaged 20.3/5.2/4.3 on 48% in the playoffs.

but it doesn't compare to Drexler's (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/drexlcl01.html#1992-1995-sum:playoffs_per_game) 23/7/6 on 47% from 1992-1995 (at same age)..

Drexler's superior stats after 30 years old, and his off-ball game would be a superior fit alongside Lebron than Wade was.. Overall, I still go with Wade though, by a tad.
Wade's fit with Lebron is overblown, he was dealing with injuries and past his prime from 2012-2014 that's why his numbers were considerably lower. His last real prime year being 2011, he averaged roughly 26 6 5 on 58 ts%.

As for Drexler being superior post age 30, all this says is he has better longevity and avoided injury better. Him being better in his post-prime isn't enough to put him on par with Wade. Wade has 4 seasons better than any of Drexler's.

[houston]

wade clearly wins this

[Smoke117]

Wade's fit with Lebron is overblown, he was dealing with injuries and past his prime from 2012-2014 that's why his numbers were considerably lower. His last real prime year being 2011, he averaged roughly 26 6 5 on 58 ts%.

As for Drexler being superior post age 30, all this says is he has better longevity and avoided injury better. Him being better in his post-prime isn't enough to put him on par with Wade. Wade has 4 seasons better than any of Drexler's.

Indeed.

[Wade's Rings]

to the WadeRings guy, sorry I somehow totally forgot about that injury-by-humanbowlingball Cardinal, that's right, my bad.. I'll give that a pass then.. and that's a good vid of Bron's game 2 defence -- find me the behind the scenes footage of the mysterious "other person" (as Stephen A. Smith heard) he was having personal issues with prior to the Space Jam game 4, you are truly The Man...

Never heard of him having personal issues before game 4.


also, one more thing, thought I was clear enough but I'm learning you gotta be crystal on these forums... when I said Drex's "deep Blazers" would "handle" the 06 Mavs, I thought it was gently implied they could beat the Heat (who were only 2 games better than those Mavs)... but you think 2006 Heat "couldn't hold a candlestick" to Drex's Blazers, like it'd be a sweep... I say no, you're thinking of the 90's Bulls...

I was saying Wade's Supporting Cast was far worse than Drexler's. So even though Drexler went up against teams > than the 2006 Mavs he had suporting casts > than the 2006 Heat.