why don't we just let algorithms determine our salaries?

[RidonKs]

like in each industry, for each profession, just put all the data into a specified algorithm and whatever number pops out is how much you make. figure out a way to input progress reports for raises down the road and you're gold.

not saying it'd be easy to come up with the formulas but it seems like an awful lot better than negotiations between 'natural entities'.

[UK2K]

like in each industry, for each profession, just put all the data into a specified algorithm and whatever number pops out is how much you make. figure out a way to input progress reports for raises down the road and you're gold.

not saying it'd be easy to come up with the formulas but it seems like an awful lot better than negotiations between 'natural entities'.

Algorithms can't predict declining due to age or attitude. Lance had a great season the year before last, but nobody wants to deal with his shitty demeanor. If an algorithm determined his salary, nobody would have picked him up.

[sweggeh]

Thats dumb. Salaries would still be changed to match the competition. Plus every situation is different, and every employer has their own financial model which includes how much they are willing to spend on salaries. There is no one salary that fits everyone. There are way too many variables to have a "one fits all" salary.

This is just straight stupid. Delete this thread immediately.

[RidonKs]

you guys think you'd get paid less, don't you?

[STATUTORY]

who would be in charge of designing this algorithm?

[UK2K]

you guys think you'd get paid less, don't you?

Hire for attitude, train for skill.

I landed a job that requires a college degree, without a college degree. Attitude and work ethic can't exactly be quantified.

[RidonKs]

Hire for attitude, train for skill.

I landed a job that requires a college degree, without a college degree. Attitude and work ethic can't exactly be quantified.
this is absolutely true. but i'd say to stick around at most jobs require attitude and work ethic. you hire for attitude, you fire for attitude. but you offer raises on the basis of value which can be quantified by definition. then we build our turing machine and we're good to go!

[Nick Young]

As much money as we can muster should go to the government. The government can be trusted to deliver that money back to the people who deserve it most, while giving less to the greedy misers who are only in the spot their are due to imperialist privilege.


Our salaries will not matter as long as our government takes care of us. In the country I live in, Europe, the government does everything it can to equalize everyone. That is why Europe is the best country in the world right now.

[DonD13]

my government provides a web-interface for that

you put in age, industry, location, education, experience, job and so on it gives you the average, the median and different percentiles

i always have a look on that before a job interview

but your idea to just let a machine determine your salary is super naive, just like all your other stupid threads http://www.smilies.4-user.de/include/Trinken/smilie_trink_005.gif

[iamgine]

It could be useful for specific manual labor jobs.

Not for all industries though.

[Clifton]

I'm a big believer in the family wage.

The primary income earner in a household (customarily the man of the house, but that could be adapted for today for single mothers, etc etc) is paid enough to support himself and his family in moderate comfort, with benefits and a plan for retirement.

So, the bigger the family, the more he is paid. (Because he needs more money than someone who doesn't have a family.) People who aren't working to provide for a family (customarily, women) are paid less.

Needless to say, it's considered discrimination now. I think it's too bad. Many companies used to do this voluntarily (it was never a law or anything).

By the way, this doesn't just apply to middle managers on up. This is anyone who works full time and has a family. Even if he works in a factory, he's making $40k a year, plus bonuses for kids.

Now, nobody makes enough money, except doctors and lawyers and money people and a few other professions, who make too much. I don't understand it, but that's what we've got.

[UK2K]

As much money as we can muster should go to the government. The government can be trusted to deliver that money back to the people who deserve it most, while giving less to the greedy misers who are only in the spot their are due to imperialist privilege.


Our salaries will not matter as long as our government takes care of us. In the country I live in, Europe, the government does everything it can to equalize everyone. That is why Europe is the best country in the world right now.

Why should I be equal to someone who sacrifices less than I do to get where I am.

[Nick Young]

Why should I be equal to someone who sacrifices less than I do to get where I am.
You are only where you are due to imperialist privilege that you inherited. If anything, you should be made LESS equal than those who are born with less privilege than you had.

This is how things are in my country, Europe. Everyone has everything they need. A capitalist system leads to oppression and misogyny.

[Bandito]

As much money as we can muster should go to the government. The government can be trusted to deliver that money back to the people who deserve it most, while giving less to the greedy misers who are only in the spot their are due to imperialist privilege.


Our salaries will not matter as long as our government takes care of us. In the country I live in, Europe, the government does everything it can to equalize everyone. That is why Europe is the best country in the world right now.
Europe is not a country. But a collection of countries.

[ISHGoat]

I'm a big believer in the family wage.

The primary income earner in a household (customarily the man of the house, but that could be adapted for today for single mothers, etc etc) is paid enough to support himself and his family in moderate comfort, with benefits and a plan for retirement.

So, the bigger the family, the more he is paid. (Because he needs more money than someone who doesn't have a family.) People who aren't working to provide for a family (customarily, women) are paid less.

Needless to say, it's considered discrimination now. I think it's too bad. Many companies used to do this voluntarily (it was never a law or anything).

By the way, this doesn't just apply to middle managers on up. This is anyone who works full time and has a family. Even if he works in a factory, he's making $40k a year, plus bonuses for kids.

Now, nobody makes enough money, except doctors and lawyers and money people and a few other professions, who make too much. I don't understand it, but that's what we've got.

good in principal, but youll have people that will abuse the system by spawning countless kids.

[UK2K]

You are only where you are due to imperialist privilege that you inherited. If anything, you should be made LESS equal than those who are born with less privilege than you had.

This is how things are in my country, Europe. Everyone has everything they need. A capitalist system leads to oppression and misogyny.

Well, I have held a full 40 hour job the last three years I have put myself through college. Last year, it was a third shift job, so I worked at night, and went to school during the day. I slept in 3 and 4 hour naps seven days a week for a full year.

Forgive me if I dont sympathize with those not willing to do the same and make the same sacrifices.

If there was no reward, I would have just joined the other half of this country and sat on my ass collecting government handouts.

By the way, Greece doesn't even have trash removal, so I think you may need to reassess what is a need.

[RidonKs]

I'm a big believer in the family wage.

The primary income earner in a household (customarily the man of the house, but that could be adapted for today for single mothers, etc etc) is paid enough to support himself and his family in moderate comfort, with benefits and a plan for retirement.

So, the bigger the family, the more he is paid. (Because he needs more money than someone who doesn't have a family.) People who aren't working to provide for a family (customarily, women) are paid less.

Needless to say, it's considered discrimination now. I think it's too bad. Many companies used to do this voluntarily (it was never a law or anything).

By the way, this doesn't just apply to middle managers on up. This is anyone who works full time and has a family. Even if he works in a factory, he's making $40k a year, plus bonuses for kids.

Now, nobody makes enough money, except doctors and lawyers and money people and a few other professions, who make too much. I don't understand it, but that's what we've got.
this sounds like it could be adapted into an add-on to current salaries, just inflate by a percentage based on size of family. surely if as you said they used to do it reflexively. or maybe change family to those you support, since family is such a politically contentious term at the moment.

this is also the sort of thing people could and would take advantage of though. how many people are in your family? well TODD is LIKE family. how many people do you support? oh just my whole posse, they're in the parking lot now if you want to talk to them.

having re-read your post, it doesn't sound like you're ambiguous, you're just talking about kids. so how do we decide when kids no longer count as dependables? or is it a permanent 'kid' allowance? reason being taking care of an 80 year old parent can be just as taxing and expensive as taking care of a 25 year old kid.

hmm.

[RidonKs]

good in principal, but youll have people that will abuse the system by spawning countless kids.
this is another possibility. maybe people should have to interview to perpetuate the species... call it the pregnancy test

[Nick Young]

Well, I have held a full 40 hour job the last three years I have put myself through college. Last year, it was a third shift job, so I worked at night, and went to school during the day. I slept in 3 and 4 hour naps seven days a week for a full year.

Forgive me if I dont sympathize with those not willing to do the same and make the same sacrifices.

If there was no reward, I would have just joined the other half of this country and sat on my ass collecting government handouts.

By the way, Greece doesn't even have trash removal, so I think you may need to reassess what is a need.
You only have these opportunities you've had in life due to imperialist privilege and by oppressing slaves and minorities. The Greeks are a wonderful culture found in my country, and have a longer and prouder history than you will ever know. Many work just as hard as you and sleep even less, and on top of that come from an oppressed minority background!

Oppressed minorities are the foundation of your country and should be treated as such. In my country, Europe, our government does everything it can to give the noble oppressed proletariat everything they need to live happy and fulfilling lives. If this comes at the expense of the First Estate, so be it.


This is what equality looks like.
http://oi57.tinypic.com/23sdeno.jpg

[UK2K]

:lol WTF

I doubt many people in this country slept less and worked harder than I did this past year.

I really, really doubt it.

What's more, I was in school with, MINORITIES! Imagine that, sitting there right next to me. Even met a cute black chick named Amina from Belgium. So she was a minority, and European, and yet, there she was, in the same class I was in.

But Nick Young from ISH tells me that just can't be true.

[Nick Young]

:lol WTF

I doubt many people in this country slept less and worked harder than I did this past year.

I really, really doubt it.

What's more, I was in school with, MINORITIES! Imagine that, sitting there right next to me. Even met a cute black chick named Amina from Belgium. So she was a minority, and European, and yet, there she was, in the same class I was in.

But Nick Young from ISH tells me that just can't be true.
You are speaking from a place of white CIS-gendered male privilege. You have no idea the plight of these minorities and what the world is actually like. You have no right to instill your imperialist First Estate beliefs upon the noble enlightened proletariat who built your country with their bare hands.

[Clifton]

good in principal, but youll have people that will abuse the system by spawning countless kids.
People don't "spawn kids." Each child you have is 9 months of morning sickness and no drinking followed by 18 years of almost constant toil and worry.

If you take all that on, not out of love, but for an extra 1-2 grand a year in pay, well... people are short-sighted in all kinds of ways.

These days, people are in school until they're 30, everyone works 40-60 hours a week, everyone's in a huge amount of debt, and nobody is getting married or having kids, because it's too expensive and inconvenient. This certainly means that the subway cars are quieter. But I don't think we're happier overall for it.

[NumberSix]

like in each industry, for each profession, just put all the data into a specified algorithm and whatever number pops out is how much you make. figure out a way to input progress reports for raises down the road and you're gold.

not saying it'd be easy to come up with the formulas but it seems like an awful lot better than negotiations between 'natural entities'.
I mean like, for realz yo. And why don't we like, just use algorithms to decide what jobs people would be best suited for? We should also use algorithms to decide which pairs of people would be ideal for procreating. This is clearly a fantastic path to go down.

[UK2K]

You are speaking from a place of white CIS-gendered male privilege. You have no idea the plight of these minorities and what the world is actually like. You have no right to instill your imperialist First Estate beliefs upon the noble enlightened proletariat who built your country with their bare hands.

Ok, so first off, my mother was born in Manila. She was 100% Filipino.

Secondly, if someone was handing out privileges at birth, I want mine. No way should a kid have to eat peanut butter sandwiches for lunch every day.

And my views aren't imperialist. I know the notion of working hard to attain things is scary to you, but, in the real world, the ones who work harder end up closer to the top than the ones who don't. That's just a fact of life.

[Nick Young]

Ok, so first off, my mother was born in Manila. She was 100% Filipino.

Secondly, if someone was handing out privileges at birth, I want mine. No way should a kid have to eat peanut butter sandwiches for lunch every day.

And my views aren't imperialist. I know the notion of working hard to attain things is scary to you, but, in the real world, the ones who work harder end up closer to the top than the ones who don't. That's just a fact of life.
Despite being half Filipino, you are speaking from a place of First Estate imperialist white privilege. You have been indoctrinated by patriarchal society to follow the status quo. Many kids don't even eat anything for lunch every day. Many kids in the world would give anything to be able to eat a peanut butter sandwich for lunch every day.

Except in my country, Europe, where the government takes care of us and everyone has delicious and healthy nutritious meals. The proletariat work harder than the first estate can ever even hope to work, and yet they earn less. This is inherently and systematically wrong.

[RidonKs]

I mean like, for realz yo. And why don't we like, just use algorithms to decide what jobs people would be best suited for? We should also use algorithms to decide which pairs of people would be ideal for procreating. This is clearly a fantastic path to go down.
hey this is pretty much what i said!

[RidonKs]

It could be useful for specific manual labor jobs.

Not for all industries though.
yeah, i agree with this.

i am introducing this idea not as a government mandate but as an adopted strategy by private companies to boost staff morale. people would probably be more comfortable if their future raises or benefits were predictable and based on concrete expectations; especially so if they could be quantified.

of course the same idea could also be used to trick people into a bad deal that sells their future short. ooooooh trust the algorithm, we have scientists working on it, you deserve whatever the algorithm says, etc etc

[Clifton]

this is also the sort of thing people could and would take advantage of though. how many people are in your family? well TODD is LIKE family. how many people do you support? oh just my whole posse, they're in the parking lot now if you want to talk to them.

having re-read your post, it doesn't sound like you're ambiguous, you're just talking about kids. so how do we decide when kids no longer count as dependables? or is it a permanent 'kid' allowance? reason being taking care of an 80 year old parent can be just as taxing and expensive as taking care of a 25 year old kid.
Probably it would follow the same guidelines as claiming dependents on your taxes. There would be some cheating, and some "taking advantage", but for the most part people avoid messing with the system because the penalties are so great. In this case the penalty would be breach of contract and loss of job, possibly a lawsuit for fraud. And it would be easy to spot, because the contract is between people who see each other every day.

[UK2K]

Despite being half Filipino, you are speaking from a place of First Estate imperialist white privilege. You have been indoctrinated by patriarchal society to follow the status quo. Many kids don't even eat anything for lunch every day. Many kids in the world would give anything to be able to eat a peanut butter sandwich for lunch every day.

Except in my country, Europe, where the government takes care of us and everyone has delicious and healthy nutritious meals. The proletariat work harder than the first estate can ever even hope to work, and yet they earn less. This is inherently and systematically wrong.
What's Greece eating these days? You said you want to stay out of other countries affairs, then say there are kids in the world who eat less. Which is it? Do I care about them, or do I not? You dont care about the Turks bombing the Kurds, so why should I give two shits about kids in the Congo?

And to be working class, you have to work. You are paid your value. If you have no skills, and add no value, you aren't paid shit. There's nothing wrong about it.

If it was wrong, then I am going to drop out of school, quit my job, and expect the government to pay me enough to live off of and have a good time. I would guess millions of others would do the same. Then who pays the bills when nobody works?

More government money? Magically appearing?

[RidonKs]

Probably it would follow the same guidelines as claiming dependents on your taxes. There would be some cheating, and some "taking advantage", but for the most part people avoid messing with the system because the penalties are so great. In this case the penalty would be breach of contract and loss of job, possibly a lawsuit for fraud. And it would be easy to spot, because the contract is between people who see each other every day.
well said

i would tend to push it even further to a guaranteed income supplement in voucher form but that may be a different conversation

[DeuceWallaces]

UK getting trolled so hard. Not the brightest guy, but I think we already knew that.

[Dbrog]

This is what equality looks like.
http://oi57.tinypic.com/23sdeno.jpg

Why post a picture like this? I was just in Paris not even 6 months ago and the place is a shithole. It smells like homeless persons dog in a bunch of places (my god the metro!) and there are plenty of poor ghetto looking places in the city with graffiti and shite. Not to mention pickpocketing is a bigger problem there than anywhere else I've been in europe.

[RidonKs]

Why post a picture like this? I was just in Paris not even 6 months ago and the place is a shithole. It smells like homeless persons dog in a bunch of places (my god the metro!) and there are plenty of poor ghetto looking places in the city with graffiti and shite.
that picture was taken before the west gave consent to muslim penetration

[Nick Young]

What's Greece eating these days? You said you want to stay out of other countries affairs, then say there are kids in the world who eat less. Which is it? Do I care about them, or do I not? You dont care about the Turks bombing the Kurds, so why should I give two shits about kids in the Congo?

And to be working class, you have to work. You are paid your value. If you have no skills, and add no value, you aren't paid shit. There's nothing wrong about it.

If it was wrong, then I am going to drop out of school, quit my job, and expect the government to pay me enough to live off of and have a good time. I would guess millions of others would do the same. Then who pays the bills when nobody works?

More government money? Magically appearing?
The Greeks are a proud culture with many beautiful tasting options. This is what Greeks eat.
http://www.cyprus.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/cyprus-meze.jpg

It is not your place to mock instill your imperialist First Estate values on another culture. It is CIS gendered misogynists like you who are working to ensure that the latest generation of young girls is growing up in a world where 1 out of every 5 will be raped, and they only earn 77 cents to every dollar a man makes.

In my country, Europe, there are more than enough undeserved greedy millionaires and billionaires who can easily maintain their wealth whilst still paying for the oppressed under privileged classes to live happy lives. Women have 100% of the opportunities that men have and there are even wonderful quotas and laws to ensure that a certain percentage of people in every board room are women and underprivileged minorities. That is what true equality looks like.

http://media.economist.com/images/images-magazine/2011/03/12/ld/20110312_ldp001.jpg

[Nick Young]

Why post a picture like this? I was just in Paris not even 6 months ago and the place is a shithole. It smells like homeless persons dog in a bunch of places (my god the metro!) and there are plenty of poor ghetto looking places in the city with graffiti and shite. Not to mention pickpocketing is a bigger problem there than anywhere else I've been in europe.
What you, a disgusting Imperialist member of the privileged First Estate, calls "poor ghettos" and "graffiti" are actually bustling cultural hubs full of love, life, poetry and incredible street art. There would be no pickpockets if the Imperialist west didn't forcefully instill their oppressive ways on the poor, forcing them to steal and beg in order to feed their families.

[knickballer]

I'm a big believer in the family wage.

The primary income earner in a household (customarily the man of the house, but that could be adapted for today for single mothers, etc etc) is paid enough to support himself and his family in moderate comfort, with benefits and a plan for retirement.

So, the bigger the family, the more he is paid. (Because he needs more money than someone who doesn't have a family.) People who aren't working to provide for a family (customarily, women) are paid less.

Needless to say, it's considered discrimination now. I think it's too bad. Many companies used to do this voluntarily (it was never a law or anything).

By the way, this doesn't just apply to middle managers on up. This is anyone who works full time and has a family. Even if he works in a factory, he's making $40k a year, plus bonuses for kids.

Now, nobody makes enough money, except doctors and lawyers and money people and a few other professions, who make too much. I don't understand it, but that's what we've got.


I definetely think only one parent in the household should be working. Alot of issues can be solved. Even issues like Obesity will decrease signficantly as parents will have more time to cook home meals instead of buying quick junk food. I think other issues like depression(among kids and parents), safety, education, etc, will all improve. Instead kids nowadays are watching Kardashians and teen mom all day lmao. Not to mention there will be more jobs which will give more power to the workers(better wages, environment, etc)

Y'all can bash me but government pushing for dual income providers is a scam. Ok lets just have another worker working long hours, paying more taxes, being another work slave and in the meantime we can raise taces, prices, property value because now you have two workers in the family. Families took the L on that one, Humans took the L on that one and so did Women.

[UK2K]

The Greeks are a proud culture with many beautiful tasting options. This is what Greeks eat.
http://www.cyprus.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/cyprus-meze.jpg

It is not your place to mock instill your imperialist First Estate values on another culture. It is CIS gendered misogynists like you who are working to ensure that the latest generation of young girls is growing up in a world where 1 out of every 5 will be raped, and they only earn 77 cents to every dollar a man makes.

In my country, Europe, there are more than enough undeserved greedy millionaires and billionaires who can easily maintain their wealth whilst still paying for the oppressed under privileged classes to live happy lives. Women have 100% of the opportunities that men have and there are even wonderful quotas and laws to ensure that a certain percentage of people in every board room are women and underprivileged minorities. That is what true equality looks like.

http://media.economist.com/images/images-magazine/2011/03/12/ld/20110312_ldp001.jpg
https://greenstarnews.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/burning-pig.jpg

No. This is Greece.

[Dbrog]

What you, a disgusting Imperialist member of the privileged First Estate, calls "poor ghettos" and "graffiti" are actually bustling cultural hubs full of love, life, poetry and incredible street art. There would be no pickpockets if the Imperialist west didn't forcefully instill their oppressive ways on the poor, forcing them to steal and beg in order to feed their families.

:oldlol:

Florence>>>>>>>Paris

[Nick Young]

Yes, Florence is another beautiful cultural hub found in my country, Europe.
Comparing Paris to Florence is similar comparing a shining emerald to a glowing ruby. Both are different. Both are beautiful.

[Dbrog]

Yes, Florence is another beautiful cultural hub found in my country, Europe.
Comparing Paris to Florence is similar comparing a shining emerald to a glowing ruby. Both are different. Both are beautiful.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. Your flowery speech makes me think you are :D

However, if not, Paris is most certainly a poop colored gem...cause that's what it smells like there...also what the Seine looks like (i will say it looks beautiful at night when you cant see the color). I very much appreciate the musicians playing under the arches at the louvre and some of the sights there, but my impression of Paris and its stuck-up people was not a great one.

Oh and again, Europe is not a country...

[Nick Young]

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. Your flowery speech makes me think you are :D

However, if not, Paris is most certainly a poop colored gem...cause that's what it smells like there...also what the Seine looks like (i will say it looks beautiful at night when you cant see the color). I very much appreciate the musicians playing under the arches at the louvre and some of the sights there, but my impression of Paris and its stuck-up people was not a great one.
Did you make attempts to speak French to them? French people are not rude if you make polite effort to speak French. Most in Paris actually speak very good English but won't make effort towards you if you don't make effort towards them.

[Dbrog]

Did you make attempts to speak French to them? French people are not rude if you make polite effort to speak French. Most in Paris actually speak very good English but won't make effort towards you if you don't make effort towards them.

It was a mixed bag tbh. I did attempt to speak french to them or learn common phrases and some were helpful. Many were very rude though...probably 60% rude, 40% helpful. I suppose it could have been worse. I also learned I have great difficulty making french sounds whereas other languages I can get pretty close.