Antawn Jamison will make the hall of fame

[JohnnySic]

He will get in; not on the first try, but he'll get in. He has 20,000 career points so hell make it whether you like it or not. :no:

And really, if Dennis Rodman got in, all bets are off.

[Mass Debator]

Sixth man of the year but no All-NBA teams. Never really did anything important in the NBA. Can't agree with you here. At least Rodman was a 2x DPOY and multiple rebounding champion.

[Yoda]

He will get in; not on the first try, but he'll get in. He has 20,000 career points so hell make it whether you like it or not. :no:

And really, if Dennis Rodman got in, all bets are off.
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/59871212.jpg

[West-Side]

He will get in; not on the first try, but he'll get in. He has 20,000 career points so hell make it whether you like it or not. :no:

And really, if Dennis Rodman got in, all bets are off.

Rodman was ten times more valuable than Jamison.

If Richmond ain't making it; no way in hell Jamison makes it.

[ClipperRevival]

If he gets in, about 75 other people need to get inducted. It would lower the HOF standards tremendously and make it a joke.

And to the above, Richmond did get inducted but his numbers are much better than Jamison's.

[West-Side]

If he gets in, about 75 other people need to get inducted. It would lower the HOF standards tremendously and make it a joke.

And to the above, Richmond did get inducted but his numbers are much better than Jamison's.

Yeah I forgot he got inducted in 2014. Good for him; used to love to watch him play. Wish he didn't play for bottom feeders all his career. Glad he won a championship with LA before retiring.

[JohnnySic]

Rodman was ten times more valuable than Jamison.

If Richmond ain't making it; no way in hell Jamison makes it.
Richmond got in in '14; it took a while but he made it. So will Jamison.

Rodman was a role player who did a couple of things very well and somehow parlayed that into a hof induction. :facepalm So like I said, all bets are off.

[JohnnySic]

If he gets in, about 75 other people need to get inducted. It would lower the HOF standards tremendously and make it a joke.

.
Rodman did that already.

[wang4three]

I loved Antawn. He was the guy who could score with all these different type of flips, hooks, and just had amazing touch. You never really needed to run a play for him, he just found ways to score, even though he was undersized for a four man.

Also one of the most professional guys ever. Never complained or pouted when he was a on a bad team, just went in and put in work every game. Very rare to find in players these days.

[HurricaneKid]

I hate how low the bar is for the HoF in basketball. But NO. Jamo will never get in. Nor should he. Inefficient chucker that was a horrific defender.

[305Baller]

If Jamison got in then Jason Richardson should get in.

[wang4three]

I hate how low the bar is for the HoF in basketball. But NO. Jamo will never get in. Nor should he. Inefficient chucker that was a horrific defender.

Horrible defender, yes. Inefficient he was not. He shot fine for the most of his career and he never really took that many shots given his role.

[ClipperRevival]

Rodman did that already.

I'm sorry but anyone who thinks Rodman didn't deserve to be inducted or that he lowered the HOF standards don't know sh*t about basketball.

[wally_world]

The standards of HOF will eventually have to fall off

They are inducting what? 5-6 players per year? In the long run that's 5-6 players per draft class on average

[West-Side]

Rodman did that already.

:roll: What? One of the greatest defenders of all-time and the best pound-for-pound rebounder we've ever seen play the game, isn't HOF worthy?

This was the dream role player every team from every era would have loved to have. He was so instrumental to his teams throughout his career.

[LAZERUSS]

If he gets in, about 75 other people need to get inducted. It would lower the HOF standards tremendously and make it a joke.

And to the above, Richmond did get inducted but his numbers are much better than Jamison's.

If he gets in...well, it might be easier to eliminate the HOF (which, BTW, is not an NBA HOF, but rather a baskteball HOF)...

and just create a Hall Of Shame, and put in the worst players of all-time.

[MP.Trey]

Might as well put Gilbert Arenas and Caron Butler in too then.

[JohnnySic]

:roll: What? One of the greatest defenders of all-time and the best pound-for-pound rebounder we've ever seen play the game, isn't HOF worthy?

This was the dream role player every team from every era would have loved to have. He was so instrumental to his teams throughout his career.
Take a good power forward; Elton Brand perhaps. Or even someone like Faried or Noah or whomever. Tell him "dont worry a thing about scoring. Just go after every rebound and hastle your guy on defense." You dont think he could do the "Rodman" thing just as good or better than Rodman?

I do.

PS - tell prime KG or TD to do that and they average 20+ rebounds every year, lol.

[LAZERUSS]

Might as well put Gilbert Arenas and Caron Butler in too then.

Hell, Lamar Odom, John Paxson, Byron Scott, Danny Ainge, and a host of others.

[JohnnySic]

Hell, Lamar Odom, John Paxson, Byron Scott, Danny Ainge, and a host of others.
None of those guys got 20,000 points. Just stop. Longevity and consistency matter, not just peak.

[D-Wait]

I'll always remember Garnett making Tawn his bitch in the 2010 playoffs...

Dude should never make the HOF

[guy]

Dennis rodman has gotten pretty overrated.

[ClipperRevival]

Take a good power forward; Elton Brand perhaps. Or even someone like Faried or Noah or whomever. Tell him "dont worry a thing about scoring. Just go after every rebound and hastle your guy on defense." You dont think he could do the "Rodman" thing just as good or better than Rodman?

I do.

PS - tell prime KG or TD to do that and they average 20+ rebounds every year, lol.

Absolutely not. First off, you can't teach effort. Some guys just don't have the motor to do what Rodman did. Second, Rodman was a very special athlete. Very fluid, explosive and quick in his movements. Worthy called him the best athlete he played against and Kerr said he was one of the best athletes ever. So this isn't Kurt Rambis or Reggie Evans, who lacked any raw talent, just trying hard. To do what Rodman did (be the best rebounder ever and one of the best defenders ever), you need more than just a motor.

Also, what do you think guys like Faried or Noah are doing right now? Doing what Rodman did. Sure, Noah does a little more passing but their fortay is rebounding and defense and hustle. Rodman did all 3 at an all time great level.

[ekosky]

Nah, because I still can't pronounce this ****** name.

AN-TAWN or AN-TWAHN?

[ClipperRevival]

:roll: What? One of the greatest defenders of all-time and the best pound-for-pound rebounder we've ever seen play the game, isn't HOF worthy?

This was the dream role player every team from every era would have loved to have. He was so instrumental to his teams throughout his career.

If I am starting an all time team, he is someone I would seriously consider. You can't have 5 guys on your team all looking to score. Someone needs to do the dirty work and the little things.

[RRR3]

Might as well put Gilbert Arenas and Caron Butler in too then.
Gilbert Arenas at least was a HOF level player at one point.






To OP,

Are you kidding?

[West-Side]

Rodman made the All-Defense Team 7 times.
His career average is 13.1 RPG in just 31.7 MPG.
He averaged 16.8 RPG in 32 MPG in 1995.
He only started 60% of the games he played in.
2 time DPOTY
5 Championships as a key member
Led the league in rebounds 7 times; while having a career average of less than 32 minutes a game.

Has a top 40 career defensive rating and defensive win share while playing 2/3 of the game (32MPG) and starting in only 573 out of 911 career games.

Yeah he's overrated alright. :rolleyes:

[Legends66NBA7]

No, he absolutely won't make it.

[ClipperRevival]

Rodman made the All-Defense Team 7 times.
His career average is 13.1 RPG in just 31.7 MPG.
He averaged 16.8 RPG in 32 MPG in 1995.
He only started 60% of the games he played in.
2 time DPOTY
5 Championships as a key member
Led the league in rebounds 7 times; while having a career average of less than 32 minutes a game.

Has a top 40 career defensive rating and defensive win share while playing 2/3 of the game (32MPG) and starting in only 573 out of 911 career games.

Yeah he's overrated alright. :rolleyes:

And that was 7 straight rebounding titles, where he averaged 16.7 rpg during this stretch, which is unreal.

[Legends66NBA7]

OP's a Celtics fan hating on a former a Bad Boy Piston/Jordan-Pippen dynasty teammate.

[Mass Debator]

And that was 7 straight rebounding titles, where he averaged 16.7 rpg during this stretch, which is unreal.
Underrated passer too

[West-Side]

Underrated passer too

Wasn't a scorer but he was always efficient from the floor too.
I believe 7 PPG on 54/55%.

The most important thing someone said in this thread was his athleticism. There are players like Bo Jackson, Deion Sanders, LeBron James that possess once in a generation type athletic ability; most people forget that Dennis had that gift.

He just demonstrated it defensively rather than offensively; so people don't remember him for his flashy play, but he was a highly effective player.

[Hey Yo]

None of those guys got 20,000 points. Just stop. Longevity and consistency matter, not just peak.
So does ones collegiate career and international play, when it comes to making the HoF.

Not saying that Antawn deserves it...just saying.

[jayfan]

Take a good power forward; Elton Brand perhaps. Or even someone like Faried or Noah or whomever. Tell him "dont worry a thing about scoring. Just go after every rebound and hastle your guy on defense." You dont think he could do the "Rodman" thing just as good or better than Rodman?

I do.

PS - tell prime KG or TD to do that and they average 20+ rebounds every year, lol.

:biggums:

Ridiculous post.

[WorldWarriors]

Jamison is a good guy always has been. Warriors drafted him hoping he could turn the franchise around in image as well winning. He was awarded a huge contract for his efforts. He got paid for his potential. Alas was not meant to be. Our 2nd round pick turned out to be a better player and Warriors could not afford to pay him. So he walked. Our 90m franchise player ended up being the side kick to our 2nd rounder. Warriors were still losing. Glad those days are behind us.

Jamison is not a hall of fame player. Good guy but not good enough player.

No comment on the Rodman nonsense in the OP.

[RRR3]

Take a good power forward; Elton Brand perhaps. Or even someone like Faried or Noah or whomever. Tell him "dont worry a thing about scoring. Just go after every rebound and hastle your guy on defense." You dont think he could do the "Rodman" thing just as good or better than Rodman?

I do.

PS - tell prime KG or TD to do that and they average 20+ rebounds every year, lol.
He does that already :biggums:

[Legends66NBA7]

For real, outside of scoring and shooting, what does Jamison do better than Anthony Mason ?

Mase could have been the closest thing to Rodman as a complimentary player during the same time period if he got the same role. Both were better than Jamison easily in my book.

[Heavincent]

Antawn Jamison padded his stats on shitty teams his whole career, and was terrible at everything besides scoring.

[WorldWarriors]

Take a good power forward; Elton Brand perhaps. Or even someone like Faried or Noah or whomever. Tell him "dont worry a thing about scoring. Just go after every rebound and hastle your guy on defense." You dont think he could do the "Rodman" thing just as good or better than Rodman?

I do.

PS - tell prime KG or TD to do that and they average 20+ rebounds every year, lol.


Sure they could do it but they aren't going up against HOF centers and Power Forwards.

Rodman did his thing in an era were there were still quality big men in the game and nothing came easy at the rim.

But okay, you can continue.

[Heavincent]

Jamison is in the same tier as other borderline stars from the 2000's, like Michael Redd, Michael Finley, Jason Richardson, Gilbert Arenas, etc. Are those guys hall of famers too? I actually think those guys may have been better than Jamison.

I can't believe this thread has popped up multiple times.

[RRR3]

Jamison is in the same tier as other borderline stars from the 2000's, like Michael Redd, Michael Finley, Jason Richardson, Gilbert Arenas, etc. Are those guys hall of famers too? I actually think those guys may have been better than Jamison.

I can't believe this thread has popped up multiple times.
They made All-NBA team(s). Higher level than Jamison, especially Arenas.

[Mass Debator]

Shareef Abdur-Rahim was actually a better player too.

[Heavincent]

They made All-NBA team(s). Higher level than Jamison, especially Arenas.

Arenas was definitely better at his peak, but his career was short lived. But yeah, Jamison might actually be the worst player of that group. Seriously, he was never a particularly good player. He was just okay...you could take him off your team and replace him with anyone else and the results wouldn't be much different.

I wouldn't be going on and on about this if this thread hadn't popped up multiple times. It's ridiculous.

[senelcoolidge]

The standards of HOF will eventually have to fall off

They are inducting what? 5-6 players per year? In the long run that's 5-6 players per draft class on average

It's already falling off a little. I think if there is no one deserving than don't induct anyone that year. Jamison is not a HoF even if he has 20,000 pts. If he goes in than the HoF is total BS. It's sad because the Hall is meant for the Creme de la Creme, the best ever. There is a point where you separate great players from good players.

[Fallen Angel]

Rodman was a role player who did a couple of things very well and somehow parlayed that into a hof induction.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Fallen Angel]

OP is a retard.

How can a poster that has been a message board for nearly a decade can be so stupid to think Dennis Rodman is just any old player.

[SHAQisGOAT]

I'll just put it this way...

Tom Chambers was better than Antawn, did more as well, and probably won't even make the HoF...

[wang4three]

Shareef Abdur-Rahim was actually a better player too.

No he wasn't.

[Kblaze8855]

Dennis Rodman was guarding everyone from Jordan to Shaq and pulling down from 15-20 rebounds for years. You think a ton of guys didnt go have 35 rebound nights with 18 offensive boards because nobody asked them to?

This is Rodman near the start of one of the 3 months he averaged 21 rebounds a game...in one season(He did it multiple times....in that season).


27 rebounds(9 offensive) 6 assists
12/13/3/(blowout)
6/15
15/32 rebounds 12 on offense
11/22
10/25
6/19
6/21
8/26
5/6(blowout..played 24 minutes)
5/15/4

Im guessing he was warmed up by this point because his worst rebounding game the next 22....was 15. His next 10

10/26(10 on offense)
18/27/5 in only 28 minutes of a blowout win
15/25(10 offensive)
5/23
3/15(worst game)
15/20
16/24
8/23
10/21
10/34(nba record 18 on offense)


He would go out and have 10/26 and get his team 12-13 extra possessions while guarding a hall of famer every couple nights.


And you think coaches dont get that level of production...that level of impact...because they dont just ask a random good forward to do it?

Dennis Rodman was rebounding like the 60s...in the 90s. And guarding HOF bigmen and HOF swingmen with no trouble.

He was a total freak of nature stamina wise. He was working harder than most anyone....including those attempting to score. If Elton Brand didnt have to score you think he just becomes the best rebounder in 40 years and guards Ewing, Zo, Shaq, Jordan, Magic, and Bird which I watched him do inside a 3 season range?

You think guys dont convert some no impact 18ppg scorer into:

http://giant.gfycat.com/LavishMajesticAmethystgemclam.gif


and get a gang of extra possessions and one of the greatest defensive hole fillers of all time because they value that extra 10 points more? As often as we hear coaches go on and on about defense first?

The way Pat Riley slowed the game down and stressed physical play and defense on the Heat....you think he doesnt turn Brian Grants 15/9 into Rodmans 8/18 with absurd defense if he needed to only ask?

The few guys who could rebound anything like Rodman were usually not great defenders. And of those who could rebound...and play D....guys like Chris Dudley? They could only play 20-25 minutes because they would burn out. It doesnt wear you out to shoot. It wears you out fighting for position and moving your feet on D. Aging players often keep their scoring. They cant keep up on the other end.


Rodman could play all out...all game..play 45 minutes...like Allen Iverson or Darrell Armstrong. And do it at the 3-4-5...guarding guys you cant slack off on. At 220 pounds giving up size to half his matchups and speed to the rest.

Guys like Rodman and Ben Wallace...forward sized guys who didnt just plant themselves in the lane to make a defensive impact...guys who would go guard you...and rebound...and do it 40 minutes a night?

Those guys have something in them you cant assign during game planning.

You cant turn Antione Walker to Dennis ****ing Rodman.

Rodman used to play 38-39 minutes...outwork everyone...pull down 28 rebounds and guard Charles Barkley....then get on the exercise bike for another hour because he didnt feel it was enough of a workout. Shit like that is why Phil has Rodman ahead of Mike as a straight up athlete.

Dennis Rodman was more of a physical freak than a societal one.

You can let an average scorer play 38 minutes and take 22 shots and get 19-20 points. You can make that the gameplan and get it done. It happens on bad teams all the time.

You cant make a man be Dennis Rodman. You could tell Elton Brand he has to guard Shaq with little or no help and get 20 boards all you want. When hes gassed in 6 minutes you will see the problem.

Chris Anderson is an impact player for 4 minutes. But he cant play that hard...for 35. And if he did he still wouldnt have 25 rebounds or get a hall of fame scorer from any of 4 positions off his game.

What Rodman did isnt supposed to be done.

Guys dont go that hard and play full games.

Not playing in the frontcourt.

If it were as simple as telling someone to do it Jeff VanGundy would have had a Rodman on every team he coached.

[ClipperRevival]

Dennis Rodman was guarding everyone from Jordan to Shaq and pulling down from 15-20 rebounds for years. You think a ton of guys didnt go have 35 rebound nights with 18 offensive boards because nobody asked them to?

This is Rodman near the start of one of the 3 months he averaged 21 rebounds a game...in one season(He did it multiple times....in that season).


27 rebounds(9 offensive) 6 assists
12/13/3/(blowout)
6/15
15/32 rebounds 12 on offense
11/22
10/25
6/19
6/21
8/26
5/6(blowout..played 24 minutes)
5/15/4

Im guessing he was warmed up by this point because his worst rebounding game the next 22....was 15. His next 10

10/26(10 on offense)
18/27/5 in only 28 minutes of a blowout win
15/25(10 offensive)
5/23
3/15(worst game)
15/20
16/24
8/23
10/21
10/34(nba record 18 on offense)


He would go out and have 10/26 and get his team 12-13 extra possessions while guarding a hall of famer every couple nights.


And you think coaches dont get that level of production...that level of impact...because they dont just ask a random good forward to do it?

Dennis Rodman was rebounding like the 60s...in the 90s. And guarding HOF bigmen and HOF swingmen with no trouble.

He was a total freak of nature stamina wise. He was working harder than most anyone....including those attempting to score. If Elton Brand didnt have to score you think he just becomes the best rebounder in 40 years and guards Ewing, Zo, Shaq, Jordan, Magic, and Bird which I watched him do inside a 3 season range?

You think guys dont convert some no impact 18ppg scorer into:

http://giant.gfycat.com/LavishMajesticAmethystgemclam.gif


and get a gang of extra possessions and one of the greatest defensive hole fillers of all time because they value that extra 10 points more? As often as we hear coaches go on and on about defense first?

The way Pat Riley slowed the game down and stressed physical play and defense on the Heat....you think he doesnt turn Brian Grants 15/9 into Rodmans 8/18 with absurd defense if he needed to only ask?

The few guys who could rebound anything like Rodman were usually not great defenders. And of those who could rebound...and play D....guys like Chris Dudley? They could only play 20-25 minutes because they would burn out. It doesnt wear you out to shoot. It wears you out fighting for position and moving your feet on D. Aging players often keep their scoring. They cant keep up on the other end.


Rodman could play all out...all game..play 45 minutes...like Allen Iverson or Darrell Armstrong. And do it at the 3-4-5...guarding guys you cant slack off on. At 220 pounds giving up size to half his matchups and speed to the rest.

Guys like Rodman and Ben Wallace...forward sized guys who didnt just plant themselves in the lane to make a defensive impact...guys who would go guard you...and rebound...and do it 40 minutes a night?

Those guys have something in them you cant assign during game planning.

You cant turn Antione Walker to Dennis ****ing Rodman.

Rodman used to play 38-39 minutes...outwork everyone...pull down 28 rebounds and guard Charles Barkley....then get on the exercise bike for another hour because he didnt feel it was enough of a workout. Shit like that is why Phil has Rodman ahead of Mike as a straight up athlete.

Dennis Rodman was more of a physical freak than a societal one.

You can let an average scorer play 38 minutes and take 22 shots and get 19-20 points. You can make that the gameplan and get it done. It happens on bad teams all the time.

You cant make a man be Dennis Rodman. You could tell Elton Brand he has to guard Shaq with little or no help and get 20 boards all you want. When hes gassed in 6 minutes you will see the problem.

Chris Anderson is an impact player for 4 minutes. But he cant play that hard...for 35. And if he did he still wouldnt have 25 rebounds or get a hall of fame scorer from any of 4 positions off his game.

What Rodman did isnt supposed to be done.

Guys dont go that hard and play full games.

Not playing in the frontcourt.

If it were as simple as telling someone to do it Jeff VanGundy would have had a Rodman on every team he coached.

Natural stamina gets completely overlooked by most people. Rodman could go all game. Same with a guy like MJ. Both had off the charts stamina and endurance.

[WorldWarriors]

Dennis Rodman was guarding everyone from Jordan to Shaq and pulling down from 15-20 rebounds for years. You think a ton of guys didnt go have 35 rebound nights with 18 offensive boards because nobody asked them to?

This is Rodman near the start of one of the 3 months he averaged 21 rebounds a game...in one season(He did it multiple times....in that season).


27 rebounds(9 offensive) 6 assists
12/13/3/(blowout)
6/15
15/32 rebounds 12 on offense
11/22
10/25
6/19
6/21
8/26
5/6(blowout..played 24 minutes)
5/15/4

Im guessing he was warmed up by this point because his worst rebounding game the next 22....was 15. His next 10

10/26(10 on offense)
18/27/5 in only 28 minutes of a blowout win
15/25(10 offensive)
5/23
3/15(worst game)
15/20
16/24
8/23
10/21
10/34(nba record 18 on offense)


He would go out and have 10/26 and get his team 12-13 extra possessions while guarding a hall of famer every couple nights.


And you think coaches dont get that level of production...that level of impact...because they dont just ask a random good forward to do it?

Dennis Rodman was rebounding like the 60s...in the 90s. And guarding HOF bigmen and HOF swingmen with no trouble.

He was a total freak of nature stamina wise. He was working harder than most anyone....including those attempting to score. If Elton Brand didnt have to score you think he just becomes the best rebounder in 40 years and guards Ewing, Zo, Shaq, Jordan, Magic, and Bird which I watched him do inside a 3 season range?

You think guys dont convert some no impact 18ppg scorer into:

http://giant.gfycat.com/LavishMajesticAmethystgemclam.gif






LOL @ Barkley. Homeboy under the basket just gave up. Barkley tried it. Damn did he hit the deck? :roll:

Oh and your post is ether.

[Kblaze8855]

The idea that a coach could just ask someone to be Dennis Rodman is almost but not quite pissing me off. Really...Imagine Doc Rivers calling in Blake and saying


"Ok...youve been doing great...scoring well...but this is what we need now:

Instead of that 22-23 you give us? We are gonna let you drop that down to about 8-10...but since you wont be working as hard were gonna need 20-25 rebounds every night...10 on offense. And if you really wanted to do us a favor you could also guard the best scoring forwards on the planet on an island with little or no help....cool?

[IMG]http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Warriors-Bench-Mock-Blake-Griffin

[ClipperRevival]

^^^^^^

:applause: Yup. I love Rodman. One of my all time fav players. Like I said before, if I were starting an all-time team, I would seriously consider picking him. You need a guy like him on your team to win. I would have to find scoring elsewhere but that's easy. What he brings to the table is incredible.

[WorldWarriors]

This is blowing my mind.

http://i.imgur.com/oXWiNYx.gif

I see a trip, pull down, elbow to the face, another pull down, lol.

Malone thought he was off to the races after that elbow. Rodman looked like he was down for the count. Malone thought he finally shook that fool but Rodman made him join him on the hardwood. :oldlol:

[West-Side]

Shutdown defense ranging from a 5 to a 1; diving for balls; taking charges; mind games; physicality; stamina, extra possessions; rebounding.

This man did so much for his team every night because he would sacrifice his body for that ball. I'm guessing a lot of the younger fans simply don't remember how amazing Dennis was one the court. That type of athleticism, hustle, energy, versatility you don't see very often.

One of the greatest athletes to ever play this game.
****ing Jamison. :facepalm

[Kblaze8855]

Shutdown defense ranging from a 5 to a 1; diving for balls; taking charges; mind games; physicality; stamina, extra possessions; rebounding.

This man did so much for his team every night because he would sacrifice his body for that ball. I'm guessing a lot of the younger fans simply don't remember how amazing Dennis was one the court. That type of athleticism, hustle, energy, versatility you don't see very often.

One of the greatest athletes to ever play this game.
****ing Jamison. :facepalm


Thats the bad thing....OP has been posting here with me for like 13-14 years at least. I think he may have been here before me and I was here before 9/11.

He was already grown then. Johnny is in his 30s if not low 40s. He remembers Dennis Rodman.

Might be left over Pistons/Celtics beef.

[20Four]

Rodman was a beast back in the day....nobody will be like him again....

[3ball]

The idea that a coach could just ask someone to be Dennis Rodman is almost but not quite pissing me off.

Would you mind say....guarding the best scorer the world has ever seen....straight up?

http://giant.gfycat.com/LeafySoupyGhostshrimp.gif


http://i.imgur.com/oXWiNYx.gif



Your post conflates the all-star, dpoy version of Rodman in Detroit, who was a small forward and routinely guarded the best wings in the league, with the 35-year old Rodman that played for the Bulls, who ONLY guarded big men (PF's and Centers).

The two players aren't remotely close to each other..

In the 1996-1998 playoffs, Rodman averaged 5/11 on 41%, including 3/8 for the entire 1997 Playoffs and 1998 Finals.. Blake's current impact is far superior to this 35-year old version of Rodman.

[Kblaze8855]

I assumed it was obvious I meant the three phases of his career since I had three descriptions...


Rodman spent most of his career old. He was like 26 as a rookie.

[JellyBean]

If Antan Jamison makes the HOF before players like, Bob Dandridge, Maurice Lucas, James Silas, Gus Williams, and Bobby Jones, and Sidney Moncrief, we have a problem.

[zoom17]

Hell no :biggums:

[3ball]

Kblaze, your post conflates the all-star, dpoy version of Rodman in Detroit, who was a small forward and routinely guarded the best wings in the league, with the 35-year old Rodman that played for the Bulls, who ONLY guarded big men (PF's and Centers).

The two players aren't remotely close to each other..

In the 1996-1998 playoffs, Rodman averaged 5/11 on 41%, including 3/8 for the entire 1997 Playoffs and 1998 Finals.. Blake's current impact is far superior to this 35-year old version of Rodman.




I assumed it was obvious I meant the three phases of his career since I had three descriptions...


I see the delineations now..

Certainly, Blake Griffin can match Rodman's 3/8 averages in the 1997 playoffs and 1998 Finals (at 36 years old), or his cumulative 5/11 on 41% averages for the entire 1996-1998 playoffs.

I know Rodman's post defense is good, but it isn't THAT good to offset what Blake can add to a team.

Btw, I love that Jordan/Rodman gif you did... You should've continued it a couple more secs though, so we could see him get hammered and tackled to the ground by Rodman from behind (after MJ accelerated by him after the swim-thru)

[Kblaze8855]

As with all else it just depends on the team and matchups. The bulls won 72, 69, and 62 games and three rings in a row. There is nowhere to go but down. I wouldn't mess with that chemistry and defense....nor would I rather post up Blake vs a 4 than MJ vs a wing. And I'm not running pick and rolls for Blake with Pip, Mj, and Harper.

Everything worked. I wouldn't mess with it and take the ball out of Mj and Pips hands more and assume Blake can guard Shaq, Malone, Zo and so on.

[3ball]

The bulls won 72, 69, and 62 games and three rings in a row. There is nowhere to go but down.


Not true... It's possible to break the 72 win record or win more than 69 or 62 games..

But that doesn't even matter because it's just RS - all that matters is that the team is more powerful and PLAYOFF-CAPABLE.





nor would I rather post up Blake vs a 4 than MJ vs a wing. And I'm not running pick and rolls for Blake with Pip, Mj, and Harper.


That's not how the triangle works - the triangle allows EVERY PLAYER to catch it on the post and decide whether they want to make a move to the basket, shoot a jumper, hand-off to cutter or make a pass.. It was an "equal opportunity offense".

Some guys were more productive in this capacity than others - Blake would simply be a more productive Luc Longley - but this would not disrupt the offense or chemistry at all - it would simply allow MJ to exert less energy trying to be aggressive offensively to keep up with the other team.

Do you think it's sheer luck that BOTH Grant and Rodman worked within the triangle?... Of course not - and most people didn't think Rodman would work at all on the team.





I wouldn't mess with that chemistry and defense


Agreed... You wouldn't just take Rodman out and plop Blake right in there - like, in the middle of a series or season... You don't mess with chemistry by thinking you can replace guys instantaneously.

However, if Blake was there from training camp in October 1995 like Rodman was and stayed the entire 3 years - they 3-peat easily, probably more...





Everything worked. I wouldn't mess with it and take the ball out of Mj and Pips hands more and assume Blake can guard Shaq, Malone, Zo and so on.


We're not asking Blake to INCREASE his production or impact, the way Mitch Richmond would need to do if he replaced MJ...

We're asking Blake to average 3/8 like Rodman did in 1997 playoffs.. The Bulls already had the best offense of all time during their 2nd three-peat (based on team ORtg stats), so with Blake, it would've made the entire season a joke, a coronation.

Undoubtedly, Blake's superior offense would enable MJ to do far less on that end, leaving more energy for defense.. MJ could become "roamer" on defense.. Like Kobe was, only effective.
.

[nzahir]

Is OP retarded? Good player but not a HOF, not even an all nba team once

[Kblaze8855]

Long as we are pretending guys like Rodman are nothing but their averages its an impasse. Marcus Fizer could do 4 and 8 or whatever. He can't be Dennis so what's the point of acting like it's anywhere near that simple?

Not that I think you intend to do anything but denigrate Jordan's teammates for help he doesn't need supporting a legacy nobody seriously questions....just saying is all.

It's a dishonest place to start and too big an issue to sidestep.

[JohnnySic]

Enough about Rodman already! I believe there are guys who could do a reasonable Rodman simulation if asked to, but that's not the point here.

Lets stay on topic - Jamison's hof potential. He'll get in.

[JohnnySic]

Thats the bad thing....OP has been posting here with me for like 13-14 years at least. I think he may have been here before me and I was here before 9/11.

He was already grown then. Johnny is in his 30s if not low 40s. He remembers Dennis Rodman.

Might be left over Pistons/Celtics beef.
WOW you know me well. :pimp:

[DMAVS41]

Enough about Rodman already! I believe there are guys who could do a reasonable Rodman simulation if asked to, but that's not the point here.

Lets stay on topic - Jamison's hof potential. He'll get in.

It's hard to ignore because it's an absurd point to make.

An it's even worse when you factor in Rodman being one of the more under-rated players of the modern era while Jamison is often one of the most over-rated players of the modern era.

He won't make the Hall either. He wasn't good enough nor did he do anything of note in his career to warrant that.

[WorldWarriors]

It's hard to ignore because it's an absurd point to make.

An it's even worse when you factor in Rodman being one of the more under-rated players of the modern era while Jamison is often one of the most over-rated players of the modern era.

He won't make the Hall either. He wasn't good enough nor did he do anything of note in his career to warrant that.

He did one good thing. He was a nice guy and helped erase the stink of the Latrell Sprewell/PJ catastrophe from the Warriors fans memories.

But our team still stunk though.

[SexSymbol]

He will get in; not on the first try, but he'll get in. He has 20,000 career points so hell make it whether you like it or not. :no:

And really, if Dennis Rodman got in, all bets are off.
Dennis Rodman is arguably top 30-40, while Jamison is not even close

[Smook A.]

He will get in; not on the first try, but he'll get in. He has 20,000 career points so hell make it whether you like it or not. :no:

And really, if Dennis Rodman got in, all bets are off.
What a dumb thing to say. Antawn Jamison was never, ever on Dennis Rodman's level in terms of impact. Rodman is known as one of the best defenders of all time. He could guards any position, you name it, and he did it extremely well. He was also one of the greatest rebounders of all time. Some people don't realize how important being an elite rebounder is. It creates extra possessions, which leads to good results. You know how many offensive rebounds The Worm grabbed a game for his career? 4.8. That's amazing, and it helped give his team more opportunities to score. Sure he wasn't a good scorer himself, but there is a lot more to basketball than just putting the ball in bucket.

Not to mention, Dennis has 5 championships, 2 DPOYs, 7 all defensive first team selections, and he's also a 7 time rebounding champ. Antawn Jamison was a good scorer, and a solid rebounder (nothing compared to Rodman though) but thats really it. His only notable accomplishments are getting into the all star game 2 times and winning the 6th man of the year award. He's not a hall of famer. Simple as that.

[3ball]

Long as we are pretending guys like Rodman are nothing but their averages its an impasse.


GTFO - i took the time to write a very detailed explanation of how players fit into the triangle - because everyone actually plays the same role in that offense - some players are simply more productive than others in the triple-post role..

Some players just hand-off like Longley and Rodman, and some players can go to work and playmake - Blake is actually a pretty good playmaker - he'd do well making plays within the triangle, especially with the GOAT scorer and his 32 ppg running around off-ball, making it easier to assist, and waiting to be assisted..

Funny thing about it, is that you probably think Lebron and his PG, ball-dominance/low-assisted style would work in the PG-banned triangle, but now you're saying Blake and his post up game won't work in a triple-post offense.

My post was far from assuming Rodman's impact was just his boxscore.. But you didn't read obviously, so that's fine.

[Kblaze8855]

I read everything everyone says to me. But I find you irrational and know you have no goal beyond propping MJ up directly or otherwise. I'm gonna have an argument with you on the ease or difficulty of replacing Rodman with you taking like it's an issue of numbers? That just isn't going anywhere.

[SouBeachTalents]

Lol, not surprised people praising Rodman brought 3ball into this thread

[G-train]

Marcus Fizer

I don't mind if you want to go on your big long winded rants occasionally but bringing up Fizer is a step too far.

[3ball]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-28-2015/2vlyzd.gif


I'm gonna have an argument with you on the ease or difficulty of replacing Rodman with you taking like it's an issue of numbers?


I never brought up stats when contemplating how Griffin would replace Rodman within the triangle.

I said the triangle allows EVERY PLAYER to catch the ball on the post - it could be Kerr, Longley, anybody (see routine play above where Pippen looks for Horace on deep post, then they get it to Cartwright on high post)

Once the player has it on the post, they have the option deciding what play to make: shoot, pass, hand-off.. This is why the offense is called an "equal opportunity offense" and that's why MJ balked at the offense at first.

The less skilled players hand-off to cutters more often, and the more skilled players can make plays from the post or high post.. Blake Griffin is a very good play-maker, and his passing skill would make him a higher-producing user of the triangle..






http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-28-2015/TQ9GBK.gif


the ease or difficulty of replacing Rodman



Blake wouldn't be disrupting the offense by trying to score on the post too much.. He'd be shooting mid-range jumpers just like Horace, and making passes from the post and high post like Longley or Cartwright..

And sure, it's a luxury to have another post presence that could score on the post sometimes too (in the play above, Blake CRAMS that on Divacs head and you know it).

But there's no way Phil or MJ would let Blake bog the game down by taking a long time to post up or trying to score on the block too often... One thing I do know - they'd be ecstatic to have a guy of Blake's caliber on the team.. The team would be more dominant than ever.





I read everything everyone says to me. But I find you irrational


unlike you, I'm always specific and back up everything I claim.. I don't just throw opinions out there without backing it up....

My shit would hold up in a court of law... Your shit would be beaten down by objections like hearsay

(btw, notice that one thing you DON'T see in the triangle is ball-domination.. It's all off-ball passing baby lol.. No seriously though - the offense didn't allow much existing, live dribbling - no PG)
.

[Kblaze8855]

Dude...ive been a Bulls fan since Reggie Theus. Ive been reading NBA books all my life...one of them by Tex on the triangle offense and several by Phil Jackson...I have little doubt my NBA video collection is about as extensive as it gets...and ive been making NBA videos and gifs since Jordan was still playing. Nothing you have to say to me teaches me anything...and your many gifs do little better. After all this time combing footage to find this or that one thing is perfectly clear...you can find a clip to suggest anything. And you only ever have one thing to suggest...

That Jordan is better than ____ or that one of Jordans teammates isnt that great.

Knowing that...I read you tell me that:



We're asking Blake to average 3/8 like Rodman did in 1997 playoffs..


Clearly suggesting thats all that needs doing...a simple task most any forward could. It clearly disregards Rodmans full contribution to make him seem lesser. Which would be enough for me to disregard even someone I DIDNT know to be like you.

When I have thousands of posts of evidence you arent interested in real discussion so much as furthering an agenda that doesnt need help? Why delve into it?

I can just barely ignore the many calls I get to ban you weekly. Im not about to get into a whole...thing...when I know you dont actually care about any of it.

I have many a thought on the triple post offense....especially as it relates to star bigmen like Elvin hayes who hated it and Pau who loved it.

But I know you to be insincere with no real purpose...but to hate on any teammate of Jordan...so why get into it?

Speaking to you in the first place was a rare lapse in judgment. One I dont intend to repeat any time soon.

[DMAVS41]

Dude...ive been a Bulls fan since Reggie Theus. Ive been reading NBA books all my life...one of them by Tex on the triangle offense and several by Phil Jackson...I have little doubt my NBA video collection is about as extensive as it gets...and ive been making NBA videos and gifs since Jordan was still playing. Nothing you have to say to me teaches me anything...and your many gifs do little better. After all this time combing footage to find this or that one thing is perfectly clear...you can find a clip to suggest anything. And you only ever have one thing to suggest...

That Jordan is better than ____ or that one of Jordans teammates isnt that great.

Knowing that...I read you tell me that:





Clearly suggesting thats all that needs doing...a simple task most any forward could. It clearly disregards Rodmans full contribution to make him seem lesser. Which would be enough for me to disregard even someone I DIDNT know to be like you.

When I have thousands of posts of evidence you arent interested in real discussion so much as furthering an agenda that doesnt need help? Why delve into it?

I can just barely ignore the many calls I get to ban you weekly. Im not about to get into a whole...thing...when I know you dont actually care about any of it.

I have many a thought on the triple post offense....especially as it relates to star bigmen like Elvin hayes who hated it and Pau who loved it.

But I know you to be insincere with no real purpose...but to hate on any teammate of Jordan...so why get into it?

Speaking to you in the first place was a rare lapse in judgment. One I dont intend to repeat any time soon.


But with all that reading and video...you claimed that Frye and Dirk were virtually identical outside of jump shooting.

I agree with your point, but lets not act like we don't all make mistakes.

[3ball]

When you say that Blake only needs to average the 3/8 that Rodman got in 1997 Playoffs, it clearly disregards Rodmans full contribution to make him seem lesser.


When you laud Rodman's "full contribution" that much, it sounds like you don't think MJ could 3-peat without it, when he DID.

He 3-peated with Horace Grant who didn't have half of Rodman's intangibles.

So MJ proved he can 3-peat with a different PF that played quite differently... He doesn't need Rodman's "full contribution" or his 3/8.

Blake Griffin would be a monster compared to Horace... and he'd be a monster compared to 35-year old Rodman too.. He'd be a significant upgrade to both.





Nothing you have to say to me teaches me anything...

I have many a thought on the triple post offense....especially as it relates to star bigmen like Elvin hayes who hated it and Pau who loved it.


So why do you think a good post player and playmaker like Griffin wouldn't fit into a triple-post offense like the triangle?

It's ludicrous.





When I have thousands of posts of evidence you arent interested in real discussion


Horseshit - I'm one of the only posters on here that addresses each and every point HEAD-ON when responding to a post..

This is what I did in responding to your previous post above, where I included a couple GIFs - how many posters will address every point you made head-on like that?... Not that many.

To claim I'm not interested in real discussion is a laughable joke, and makes me think you're just reticent to engage in a debate you fear you'll lose.

[Lebron23]

Maybe a 2nd or 3rd ballot hall of famer. He was a former College Player of the Year.

And a 20/10 PF during his prime.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

2 time all star.
No all-nba teams.

He has no chance.

[kennethgriffin]

He will get in; not on the first try, but he'll get in. He has 20,000 career points so hell make it whether you like it or not. :no:

And really, if Dennis Rodman got in, all bets are off.


dennis rodman is the greatest rebounder of all time and a top 5 defender in nba history with 5 nba championships and 2 defensive player of the year awards


why are all bets off cause he made the hall of fame?


george karl said rodman was the Finals MVP in 2006


:biggums:



dude literally had 50000000 million times the impact antawn jamison ever had

[Fallen Angel]

2010-2011 Cleveland Cavaliers. Never Forget.

[JohnnySic]

Bump!

Still think Jamison gets in.

Bumped to say this: Joe Johnson will probably also get in. Closing in on 20,000 points. Has quietly had a great career.

[Legends66NBA7]

Bump!

Still think Jamison gets in.

Bumped to say this: Joe Johnson will probably also get in. Closing in on 20,000 points. Has quietly had a great career.

Right, by making all-star teams he didn't deserve to make and being underwhelming bad in the playoffs the majority of his career.


Can anyone remember how many great moments Joe has had ? At least for his standards ? I can only think of 2 maybe 3. That's get you in the hall ?

[dhsilv]

He actually has a SHOT due to his college career. Back to back final fours along with winning the AP player of the year and John Wooden award, pluys two time all american. Factor that into being a two time all star and yes 20,000 points and he's got a case.

If it were an NBA hall of fame, ZERO chance he'd make it, but a basketball one? Maybe?

I'll ignore the stupid rodman stuff here as we all know he's better than Jamison and we also know 3ball is a rude idiot for his comments.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Bump!

Still think Jamison gets in.

Bumped to say this: Joe Johnson will probably also get in. Closing in on 20,000 points. Has quietly had a great career.

Please...

How about Walter Davis? He scored 19,521 points, made 2nd all-nba twice, 6x an all-star, won roy, once 5th in mvp voting, mad talented...

Chambers has 20,049 points, 2x all-nba 2nd, 4x all-star, once asg mvp, twice top10 in mvp award shares, one of the best dunkers...

Terry Cummings was all-nba twice (2nd and 3rd), 2x all-star, once 5th in mvp voting, roy, has 19,460 scored...

I guess, in your mind, Dale Ellis should also make it then, huh?
Well, he has 19,004 points, he's 12th all-time in 3's made (without coming up with the 3pt line or playing in 3pt era), once all-star, once all-nba 3rd, once mip, one of the GOAT shooters...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Antawn also got his college career, but even so...

You still got dudes like Sidney Moncrief or Bobby Jones getting disrespected without being selected so far.

Get real, now...

[Akrazotile]

Bump!

Still think Jamison gets in.

Bumped to say this: Joe Johnson will probably also get in. Closing in on 20,000 points. Has quietly had a great career.


You have really low standards for terms like "great" and "hall of fame"

[1987_Lakers]

Still think he will get in OP?

[Clifton]

I hear this kind of thing a lot, and I get it. But I wonder, are we really so sure? The only reason anyone talks about Antawn Jamison today is to say exactly this. "He will get into the HOF, even though he shouldn't." If this thought is the only one anyone ever has about Jamison, are we so sure something won't change about the HOF? Ultimately, you have to get voted in by human beings. Who are the ones who are gonna do it after all this?

Even if it's been true that everyone with 20,000 points has gotten in so far, maybe that changes. Maybe there will be a reaction in the other direction. In fact I think this will move to the other extreme. People not getting in for putting in work every year for 15 years and ending up with 20,000 points, but you do get in for, say, cultural impact. Doing stuff for social justice, or being the first X to do Y.

For example, if some team signs a woman, and she scores a basket? She'll be inducted before the buzzer even sounds.

But even if it doesn't go to an extreme, I think we might find that stat-based admissions start to change. In Jamison's time, we followed players like him by looking at box scores in the newspaper. I remember pulling out the sports section that one year Jamison and Rashard Lewis had those 50 point games to start the season and wondering what the hell was going on, whether these two were going to change basketball as we knew it. Didn't catch the games of course.

I could find those games online now if I wanted to. And if Shard or Jamison were up for HOF I would watch them. And having followed both guys for a decade I know what they really were.

These days we follow players like Jamison (guys who do something noteworthy but aren't in the spotlight) by watching clips on Twitter or Reddit. And if a guy fails to stand out via the eye test, and if 'the experts' don't vouch for him, we don't care about his numbers as much. That mentality shift among fans might affect the HOF voter mentality by the time Jamison might have snuck in.

[D-Wait]

LOL if Jamison makes the Hall, any above-average player with 1-2 all-star appearances and longevity should get in...

[getting_old]

everybody gets in

[SouBeachTalents]

If Anwawn Jamison makes the HOF, they need to seriously toss out their current requirements and significantly up the standards of who gets voted in. The guy was honestly probably not even a top 25 player in the league at any point in his career, and we're seriously debating about whether or not he should be in the HOF? I've said it before, I think if you even need to ask if someone should make the HOF, they probably shouldn't, imo only the absolute no doubters should be in the HOF in the first place

[Clifton]

If Anwawn Jamison makes the HOF, they need to seriously toss out their current requirements and significantly up the standards of who gets voted in.
Is there a set of standards? I thought they just voted in a certain number of guys each year. Whatever, what, 4 or 5 guys get the most votes make it? If you have to vote for 5 guys and only 4 of them are better than Jamison, you have to vote for Jamison...

[SouBeachTalents]

Is there a set of standards? I thought they just voted in a certain number of guys each year. Whatever, what, 4 or 5 guys get the most votes make it? If you have to vote for 5 guys and only 4 of them are better than Jamison, you have to vote for Jamison...
If that results in guy like Jamison making the HOF then the need to change that practice