at Kobe, Duncan, KG and Dirk die hard fans

[pastis]

will you reduce your attention regarding your favorite team if your favorite player retires? or wont it affect at all?

for me: i wont renew my league pass contract for sure, but mavs will still be my favorite team.


2 top 10 and 2 top 20 players are gonna retire in probably next 2 years :applause: :bowdown: :applause:

[rmt]

No, I'll keep up with the NBA/Spurs - been watching since 1977 - see no reason to stop.

[ArbitraryWater]

No, I'll keep up with the NBA/Spurs - been watching since 1977 - see no reason to stop.

1977? Srsly?

You like 50? Could be Laz' daughter

[pastis]

No, I'll keep up with the NBA/Spurs - been watching since 1977 - see no reason to stop.

here in germany was a kobe hype back at the beginning of the 00s and that was really the first time i was confronted to basketball. but its because of Dirk that i really started following the NBA and especially the mavs. i bought league pass because of Dirk....and here in germany the NBA matches are always starting between midnight and 4.30 in the morining. so with Dirks retirement i think bball wont be the same for me.:cry:

[SsKSpurs21]

No, I'll keep up with the NBA/Spurs - been watching since 1977 - see no reason to stop.

Spurs fan since 91 when i went to go see David Robinson play for the first time.

i was 9 years old. been through the tough times and the good times.

like rmt, not reason to stop now...i guess this doesnt apply since I am more of a Spurs fan and just a Duncan fan.

[DMAVS41]

I'll always be a Mavs fan as I was long before I had ever even heard of Dirk, but it of course will take something away.

Dirk has been about the most likable and enjoyable franchise player I could imagine the Mavs could ever get....

So that will stink, but honestly, I'm more worried about how awful the Mavs are going to be with Cuban/Nellie making the decisions without Dirk to make it all work.

Gonna be a large does of reality unless we get another franchise guy in here quick.

[masonanddixon]

The NBA sucks now and the Mavs are atrocious so I doubt I'll really follow this season.

The only teams to like now are Utah, Memphis, Miami, and Orlando.

[TheMarkMadsen]

will still be a laker fan and follow the lakers but I can't see myself getting as invested into another player again

[branslowski]

I'll always be a Mavs fan as I was long before I had ever even heard of Dirk, but it of course will take something away.

Dirk has been about the most likable and enjoyable franchise player I could imagine the Mavs could ever get....

So that will stink, but honestly, I'm more worried about how awful the Mavs are going to be with Cuban/Nellie making the decisions without Dirk to make it all work.

Gonna be a large does of reality unless we get another franchise guy in here quick.

You say this like yawl won multiple titles WITH Dirk..:confusedshrug:

1 Ring in over a decade with him...And a 2-0 Finals lead choked away..ouch.

[HOoopCityJones]

You say this like yawl won multiple titles WITH Dirk..:confusedshrug:

1 Ring in over a decade with him...And a 2-0 Finals lead choked away..ouch.

:roll:

[mehyaM24]

You say this like yawl won multiple titles WITH Dirk..:confusedshrug:

1 Ring in over a decade with him...And a 2-0 Finals lead choked away..ouch.

you're missing the point tbf

realistically, dirk has been their true & only superstar..

[branslowski]

you're missing the point tbf

realistically, dirk has been their true & only superstar..

Aside from Nash right?...Just sayin, I wouldn't be hype over a superstar playing 17yrs with my team and I only celebrated 1 title out of it....And even worse I have to remember my star player having a 2-0 FINALS lead and then losing the series 4-2..:coleman:

But i'm not tryna rain on anyone's parade, Dirk is the truth, his clutch play to win some playoff rounds is one of his greatest feats I've seen.

[ArbitraryWater]

Aside from Nash right?...Just sayin, I wouldn't be hype over a superstar playing 17yrs with my team and I only celebrated 1 title out of it....And even worse I have to remember my star player having a 2-0 FINALS lead and then losing the series 4-2..:coleman:

But i'm not tryna rain on anyone's parade, Dirk is the truth, his clutch play to win some playoff rounds is one of his greatest feats I've seen.

ugh, if you were a true sports fan you appreciate all kinds of success... the little, sweet things.. sometimes even more than just rangz every year.

Do you know how many teams had regular year-in-year-out success in the NBA since the 90's? Bulls, Lakers, Spurs....

yeah, any other fanbase musta hated being a fan.

Lol, Laker fans, coackroaches.

[branslowski]

ugh, if you were a true sports fan you appreciate all kinds of success... the little, sweet things.. sometimes even more than just rangz every year.

Do you know how many teams had regular year-in-year-out success in the NBA since the 90's? Bulls, Lakers, Spurs....

yeah, any other fanbase musta hated being a fan.

Lol, Laker fans, coackroaches.

I'am a true sports fan...So I recongnize how good a player Dirk was, but I wouldn't be overly hype about a player who didn't bring me something players should TRULY PLAY THE GAME for...

I mean Jordan fans, Kobe Fans, Magic Fans, Kareem fans, Bird fans, all understand this.:confusedshrug:


Edit: But I'm wrong here, he did bring 1 ring, I'm just overrating the light I assume you guy's give Dirk instead of truly seeing the type of winning impact he truly brings...I mean Billups brought Pistons 1 title, yet I'm not bashing him...My bad fellas.

[mehyaM24]

Aside from Nash right?...Just sayin, I wouldn't be hype over a superstar playing 17yrs with my team and I only celebrated 1 title out of it....And even worse I have to remember my star player having a 2-0 FINALS lead and then losing the series 4-2..:coleman:

But i'm not tryna rain on anyone's parade, Dirk is the truth, his clutch play to win some playoff rounds is one of his greatest feats I've seen.

nash probably would've been had he stayed longer - but he became mvp caliber only AFTER leaving dallas. bad timing aside, dirk was that since 2002-2003.

and yea, he's had a few mishaps - but overall dirk has been a killer in the playoffs. you should know after that 2011 laker sweep :bowdown:

[ArbitraryWater]

I'am a true sports fan...So I recongnize how good a player Dirk was, but I wouldn't be overly hype about a player who didn't bring me something players should TRULY PLAY THE GAME for...

I mean Jordan fans, Kobe Fans, Magic Fans, Kareem fans, Bird fans, all understand this.:confusedshrug:

Oh, and Dirk fans don't because he only won a title? Jeezuz, this is not even about being a player fan... and honestly he should have 2 if we account for rigjobs, but thats besides the point.

okay, good edit on your part.

[branslowski]

nash probably would've been had he stayed longer - but he became mvp caliber only AFTER leaving dallas. bad timing aside, dirk was that since 2002-2003.

and yea, he's had a few mishaps - but overall dirk has been a killer in the playoffs. you should know after that 2011 laker sweep :bowdown:

Yea that 2011 Lakers sweep and run was impressive....That 1 year out of 17.:cheers:

[branslowski]

Oh, and Dirk fans don't because he only won a title? Jeezuz, this is not even about being a player fan... and honestly he should have 2 if we account for rigjobs, but thats besides the point.

okay, good edit on your part.

:coleman:

I remember Wade killing the 4th quarters while Dirk was no where to be found when it mattered. But again, who am I?

[ArbitraryWater]

:coleman:

I remember Wade killing the 4th quarters while Dirk was no where to be found when it mattered. But again, who am I?

that too, happened.. what also happened, was Dirk hitting the GW in game 5 only for Wade to come back and get 'fouled' and Heat win the game.. but irrlevant against all the pro Heat calls.

[branslowski]

that too, happened.. what also happened, was Dirk hitting the GW in game 5 only for Wade to come back and get 'fouled' and Heat win the game.. but irrlevant against all the pro Heat calls.

Yea, you can't hit a game-winner unless it "wins" you the game...But again, dat 1 title in 17 yrs...Top 20 Player All-Time though factually in my book.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Big KG fan. Kobe and Dirk are among my faves too this 2010s era tho is the weakest since the 50s prolly overall. CP and KD are the best players now and i love to watch them but i dont get excited for any of these new yungins like i used to

[branslowski]

Big KG fan. Kobe and Dirk are among my faves too this 2010s era tho is the weakest since the 50s prolly overall. CP and KD are the best players now and i love to watch them but i dont get excited for any of these new yungins like i used to

:oldlol: CP aint better than LeBron, AD, Westbrook, or Curry.

[imnew09]

Of course man. Godbe is one of a kind , legend like him dont come very often.

Regardless imma still cheer for my Lakers unlike those Lebeta fans who jump ships evey fken time

[ArbitraryWater]

Yea, you can't hit a game-winner unless it "wins" you the game...But again, dat 1 title in 17 yrs...Top 20 Player All-Time though factually in my book.

well, per definition it is possible, since game winners as you will see them on any stat by ESPN, BR, etc. are simply go ahead shots in the last 24 seconds, irrelevant of win or loss, since thats out of your hands anyway. All YOU can do is make that shot, thats what the stat wants to tell us only anyway.

[ArbitraryWater]

Big KG fan. Kobe and Dirk are among my faves too this 2010s era tho is the weakest since the 50s prolly overall. CP and KD are the best players now and i love to watch them but i dont get excited for any of these new yungins like i used to

http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah306/MaleRuler/GIFs/giphy_zpsxedwv96e.gif (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/MaleRuler/media/GIFs/giphy_zpsxedwv96e.gif.html)

[branslowski]

well, per definition it is possible, since game winners as you will see them on any stat by ESPN, BR, etc. are simply go ahead shots in the last 24 seconds, irrelevant of win or loss, since thats out of your hands anyway. All YOU can do is make that shot, thats what the stat wants to tell us only anyway.

Yea....Again, BS (epic reaching advanced) stat aside, you can't brag about a game-winner you hit when you loss the game you hit it in...:confusedshrug:

[ArbitraryWater]

Yea....Again, BS (epic reaching advanced) stat aside, you can't brag about a game-winner you hit when you loss the game you hit it in...:confusedshrug:

ugh, nobody is "bragging", it merely shows if you came up in the clutch or not... jeezuz these Laker tards :facepalm

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

well, per definition it is possible, since game winners as you will see them on any stat by ESPN, BR, etc. are simply go ahead shots in the last 24 seconds, irrelevant of win or loss, since thats out of your hands anyway. All YOU can do is make that shot, thats what the stat wants to tell us only anyway.

Mhmmm. This is...a tasty burger!

[ArbitraryWater]

Mhmmm. This is...a tasty burger!

:roll: what bra..what? :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:roll: what bra..what? :oldlol:

Hah. I just thought your post was good, and decided to quote your avy :pimp:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecc0nbg9m-8

[branslowski]

ugh, nobody is "bragging", it merely shows if you came up in the clutch or not... jeezuz these Laker tards :facepalm

So lemme get this straight, I'm a retard for not giving credit to a game-winning shot stat that gives you a game-WINNER even though you loss the game you allegedly got the "game-Winner" in?:biggums:

Sounds like my homie who say he a "Mac" wit the chicks but come to find out he never get to smash them, he just get da fake number...So I guess percentage wise like "Pulling a chick stat, meaning getting the number but not meaning you have to smash truly" is in effect for my homeboy as it is for Dirk..

Just sayin, when I say I pulled da b!tch, it's because I smashed, but I guess that's just me:confusedshrug:

[kennethgriffin]

i'l still be a laker fan. but i probly won't give 2 ****s about basketball


just maybe have fun seeing others fail trying to surpass kobe



this years finals was hilarious

[ArbitraryWater]

Hah. I just thought your post was good, and decided to quote your avy :pimp:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecc0nbg9m-8

oh damn, I shoulda noticed that :(

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

oh damn, I shoulda noticed that :(

:cheers:


Sounds like my homie who say he a "Mac" wit the chicks but come to find out he never get to smash them, he just get da fake number...So I guess percentage wise like "Pulling a chick stat, meaning getting the number but not meaning you have to smash truly" is in effect for my homeboy as it is for Dirk..

Just sayin, when I say I pulled da b!tch, it's because I smashed, but I guess that's just me:confusedshrug:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[DirkNowitzki41]

damnnn branlowski stupid af

if dirk had anywhere near the type of help that duncan, and kobe has had, dirk would EASILY have won 2-3+ rings.

dirks never had a hof teammate in his prime while kobe has had loads and loads. kobe has never had to deal with having a entirely new roster year after year due to a confused front office.

kobe is overrated as hell. yall are on his dick so hard you cant even see it

[Milbuck]

Feel pretty comfortable saying that Smoke will continue to disappoint his family for years and years after Wade's retirement.

[DMAVS41]

You say this like yawl won multiple titles WITH Dirk..:confusedshrug:

1 Ring in over a decade with him...And a 2-0 Finals lead choked away..ouch.

We had 11 straight 50 win seasons. Made the WCF 3 times, the finals twice, won a title....had a 67 win season.

Have remained relevant for like 15 years.

I'd say it was a pretty damn good run considering the Mavs of the 90's were arguably the worst franchise in all of sports.

Also, what you point out, as usual, makes my point for me...that even with Dirk...it wasn't like we were a dominant franchise. Imagine how bad it could be without him?

Brans....use that brain from time to time please.

[miles berg]

I love Dirk and all but is always about the name on the front of the jersey, not the back. It will be business as usual for me.

MavsFanForLife

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Feel pretty comfortable saying that Smoke will continue to disappoint his family for years and years after Wade's retirement.
Damn man, what's your beef with smoke?

I know he can throw angry, drunken tantrums from time to time, but y'all have been taking pot-shots at each other for months. :oldlol:

[FKAri]

No, I'll keep up with the NBA/Spurs - been watching since 1977 - see no reason to stop.

dis nigguh damn near 50 and hes trolling and getting trolled on ISH on the daily. :oldlol:

[rmt]

We had 11 straight 50 win seasons. Made the WCF 3 times, the finals twice, won a title....had a 67 win season.

Have remained relevant for like 15 years.

I'd say it was a pretty damn good run considering the Mavs of the 90's were arguably the worst franchise in all of sports.

Also, what you point out, as usual, makes my point for me...that even with Dirk...it wasn't like we were a dominant franchise. Imagine how bad it could be without him?

Brans....use that brain from time to time please.

I like how Dirk said it - the Spurs have made the most of their opportunities and the Mavs haven't. I don't think some posters realize how hard it is to even get the opportunities. I don't think Cuban should have broken up the Mavs after 2011. The Heat weren't there yet. Spurs were down. OKC not mature yet. He shoulda given them a chance for another shot.

[HOoopCityJones]

Hah. I just thought your post was good, and decided to quote your avy :pimp:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecc0nbg9m-8



Ni99a don't even know what movie the pic of Samuel in his own ava is from. :facepalm

Kill yourself AW.

[AnaheimLakers24]

I enjoy watching the purple and gold more than anything but i will sorrow the day kobe and those 3 tall dudes retire. Always wanted to see kob and tim on the same team. Still gona watch every lakers game regardless

[branslowski]

damnnn branlowski stupid af

if dirk had anywhere near the type of help that duncan, and kobe has had, dirk would EASILY have won 2-3+ rings.

dirks never had a hof teammate in his prime while kobe has had loads and loads. kobe has never had to deal with having a entirely new roster year after year due to a confused front office.

kobe is overrated as hell. yall are on his dick so hard you cant even see it

Kobe won back to back titles with the worst HOF sidekick when compared to other All-Time greats.:confusedshrug: ....Dirk had 4 players avg over 13ppg in the 04'-05' playoffs, Kobe could only dream of having 4 other players drop over 13ppg....Gasol was the only Laker other than Kobe avg over 13ppg during his title years.. That's the truth, but I'mma let yawl keep overrating Kobe's cast....Aside from Pau, Kobe had a bowler, a crack head and Luke Walton..:oldlol:

[branslowski]

We had 11 straight 50 win seasons. Made the WCF 3 times, the finals twice, won a title....had a 67 win season.

Have remained relevant for like 15 years.

I'd say it was a pretty damn good run considering the Mavs of the 90's were arguably the worst franchise in all of sports.

Also, what you point out, as usual, makes my point for me...that even with Dirk...it wasn't like we were a dominant franchise. Imagine how bad it could be without him?

Brans....use that brain from time to time please.

Ok, 0 Titles in 17yrs without Dirk, 1 Title in 17yrs with him..:confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

Ok, 0 Titles in 17yrs without Dirk, 1 Title in 17yrs with him..:confusedshrug:

It's not all about titles though. That is your own arbitrary standard...other people/fans actually care about other things as well.

So it's a false comparison. And something you won't stay consistent with anyway.

We all know you rank Kobe over Hondo...yet that wouldn't make sense on the title or bust line of thinking you adopt.

[Twiens]

Will obviously keep watching but much less invested when Kobe retires. The last couple seasons have been incredibly boring for me now that hes out of his prime.

[branslowski]

It's not all about titles though. That is your own arbitrary standard...other people/fans actually care about other things as well.

So it's a false comparison. And something you won't stay consistent with anyway.

We all know you rank Kobe over Hondo...yet that wouldn't make sense on the title or bust line of thinking you adopt.

Nah, alot of ppl view titles and Finals MVp's as being accomplished, it's why players play....Those who's fav players don't win downplay winning..

"N!ggas with no money act like money isn't everything"- Drake

[DMAVS41]

Kobe won back to back titles with the worst HOF sidekick when compared to other All-Time greats.:confusedshrug: ....Dirk had 4 players avg over 13ppg in the 04'-05' playoffs, Kobe could only dream of having 4 other players drop over 13ppg....Gasol was the only Laker other than Kobe avg over 13ppg during his title years.. That's the truth, but I'mma let yawl keep overrating Kobe's cast....Aside from Pau, Kobe had a bowler, a crack head and Luke Walton..:oldlol:

Do you think you might be biased a bit? You really think the 05 Mavs were better than the 08 through 10 Lakers?

I mean....why does so little support this assertion?

I mean...the 05 Mavs were a really good team and Dirk didn't play well in the playoffs, but they also weren't as good as those Lakers teams led by Phil.

I'm assuming you would agree that the 11 Mavs were better than the 05 Mavs supporting cast.

Well....

The 11 Mavs ranked as the 58th supporting cast (out of 62) to make the finals since 1985.

Where do Kobe's teams rank in terms of supporting casts?

2010 Lakers....15th
2009 Lakers....18th
2008 Lakers.....35th

With the 00-02 and 04 Lakers all ranking very close to the top.

Does that mean anything to you?

[DMAVS41]

Nah, alot of ppl view titles and Finals MVp's as being accomplished, it's why players play....Those who's fav players don't win downplay winning..

"N!ggas with no money act like money isn't everything"- Drake

Quoting Drake in a debate seems silly....but I'll let that go.


Please tell me why you rank Kobe over Hondo if winning is everything.

[branslowski]

Do you think you might be biased a bit? You really think the 05 Mavs were better than the 08 through 10 Lakers?

I mean....why does so little support this assertion?

I'm assuming you would agree that the 11 Mavs were better than the 05 Mavs supporting cast.

Well....

The 11 Mavs ranked as the 58th supporting cast (out of 62) to make the finals since 1985.

Where do Kobe's teams rank in terms of supporting casts?

2010 Lakers....15th
2009 Lakers....18th
2008 Lakers.....35th

With the 00-02 and 04 Lakers all ranking very close to the top.

Does that mean anything to you?

Yeah, blah blah, Dirk had 4 teammates avg over 13ppg...His top 4 helpers blow Kobe's top 4 helpers out of the Water collectively, it's the truth....Now ofcource Gasol was a better sidekick than any of Dirk's sidekicks that year, but as a group of "stacked ness, naw".

[branslowski]

Quoting Drake in a debate seems silly....but I'll let that go.


Please tell me why you rank Kobe over Hondo if winning is everything.

If you don't see why I quoted a drake verse and how it fits in to this argument then you never will.

Now once again we jumpin into that "Well since my player to be winnin, lets diminish winning, is Horry a better player than Barkley cause he got madd ringz"...:facepalm

I digress...Again, not clowning Dirk, but come on bro...You got it though...

[DMAVS41]

Yeah, blah blah, Dirk had 4 teammates avg over 13ppg...His top 4 helpers blow Kobe's top 4 helpers out of the Water collectively, it's the truth....Now ofcource Gasol was a better sidekick than any of Dirk's sidekicks that year, but as a group of "stacked ness, naw".

It's not "blah blah blah"....it's an actual study of the talent on the supporting cast. That is why I asked if you could potentially admit you might be a bit biased here.

I of course disagree with you. And of course the evidence is on my side. In the same study....the 06 Mavs...a team clearly better than the 05 Mavs....ranked as the 47th ranked supporting cast.

Again...do you think you are a bit biased?

[RRR3]

If you don't see why I quoted a drake verse and how it fits in to this argument then you never will.

Now once again we jumpin into that "Well since my player to be winnin, lets diminish winning, is Horry a better player than Barkley cause he got madd ringz"...:facepalm

I digress...Again, not clowning Dirk, but come on bro...You got it though...
Horry wasn't a superstar. Hondo was.

[DMAVS41]

If you don't see why I quoted a drake verse and how it fits in to this argument then you never will.

Now once again we jumpin into that "Well since my player to be winnin, lets diminish winning, is Horry a better player than Barkley cause he got madd ringz"...:facepalm

I digress...Again, not clowning Dirk, but come on bro...You got it though...

It's not about diminishing winning...and the Horry attack is a straw man. It's about understanding that so much goes into winning beyond the control of one player. Kobe with no Shaq and no other all time great his first 8 years....has 3 less rings. Does that make Kobe a lesser player? Hell no. It's all about circumstances on that front. People with brains like to talk about such things.

Hondo is an all time great. A true monster. He was one of the best two way players of all time.

You equating Hondo and Horry shows your ignorance.

[branslowski]

It's not "blah blah blah"....it's an actual study of the talent on the supporting cast. That is why I asked if you could potentially admit you might be a bit biased here.

I of course disagree with you. And of course the evidence is on my side. In the same study....the 06 Mavs...a team clearly better than the 05 Mavs....ranked as the 47th ranked supporting cast.

Again...do you think you are a bit biased?

So lemme get this straight, I can show you raw head to head numbers, player by player that Dirk's WHOLE cast produced more than Kobe's in Kobe's title years vs Dirk's 05' team, which means I'm clearly right, yet a Dirk fan still dimissin the facts sayin I'm wrong and I'm biased?

FYI, your're a Dirk fan who hates Kobe...:coleman:

[branslowski]

It's not about diminishing winning...and the Horry attack is a straw man.

Hondo is an all time great. A true monster. He was one of the best two way players of all time.

You equating Hondo and Horry shows your ignorance.

:facepalm OK, I see where this is going, you gonna keep leaping and leaping to de-validate winning....Sounds like a fan of a player who gave away a 2-0 lead in the Finals and got beat by a 8th seed team while being a 1 seed.

Go, become a CP3 fan then bruh.

[DMAVS41]

So lemme get this straight, I can show you raw head to head numbers, player by player that Dirk's WHOLE cast produced more than Kobe's in Kobe's title years vs Dirk's 05' team, which means I'm clearly right, yet a Dirk fan still dimissin the facts sayin I'm wrong and I'm biased?

FYI, your're a Dirk fan who hates Kobe...:coleman:

You can't "show" me anything because you are too biased.

Why are the 06 Mavs (a team much better than the 05 Mavs) ranked so much worse in the supporting cast model?

Why don't you have a study supporting your assertions?

[DMAVS41]

:facepalm OK, I see where this is going, you gonna keep leaping and leaping to de-validate winning....Sounds like a fan of a player who gave away a 2-0 lead in the Finals and got beat by a 8th seed team while being a 1 seed.

Go, become a CP3 fan then bruh.

You are the one diminishing winning. I'm saying Hondo was better than Kobe. Why do you disagree?

Sounds like a fan of a player that ruined the chemistry of teams, choked away the 04 finals, missed the playoffs in his prime, choked away a 3-1 series lead and quit in a game 7, led his team to an epic elimination game loss in the finals after blowing a 24 point lead in the swing game of the same series, got swept as a huge favorite (Dirk undefeated against Kobe in playoffs....:lol )....

Go, become a Carmelo Anthony fan.:cheers:

[SCdac]

Was a Spurs fan before Duncan came along, will be one long after he's gone. It will be different, for sure, but kind of like our fathers (assuming they're NBA fans) we are going to live through different eras of bball and that's a good thing. I'm sort of excited and nervous about upcoming Spurs teams (without Duncan and Ginobili), but that's half the fun. Not knowing what will happen

[branslowski]

You are the one diminishing winning. I'm saying Hondo was better than Kobe. Why do you disagree?

Sounds like a fan of a player that ruined the chemistry of teams, choked away the 04 finals, missed the playoffs in his prime, choked away a 3-1 series lead and quit in a game 7, led his team to an epic elimination game loss in the finals after blowing a 24 point lead in the swing game of the same series, got swept as a huge favorite (Dirk undefeated against Kobe in playoffs....:lol )....

Go, become a Carmelo Anthony fan.:cheers:

Become I fan of a player who can't win multiple rings because I'm a fan of a player with 5 titles?...Makes sense.

[DMAVS41]

Become I fan of a player who can't win multiple rings because I'm a fan of a player with 5 titles?...Makes sense.

You can keep trying to dodge...and that's fine...but it's essentially just an admission you can't defend your position.

I ask again...if ring count matters as much as you say. Why do you rank Kobe over Hondo?

[Hittin_Shots]

Become I fan of a player who can't win multiple rings because I'm a fan of a player with 5 titles?...Makes sense.

Hard to have multiple people average scoring 13ppg on a team with Kobe. Kobe fan argument includes points, points and points..

[FKAri]

If Real14 is a troll then that would make Branslowski's the dumbest non troll poster on ISH :oldlol:

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Dirk wasn't my "first love"... Jamal Mashburn was... and he won't be my last "love."

But I will be in a state of mourning when he retires.

That Bran is not realizing about the Mavs and the Lakers. Lakers fall @ss backwards into superstars. They get gifted Magic. They traded for Kareem. Shaq signed there. They get Wilt. Kobe told EVERYONE not to draft him and he would only play for the Lakers.

The Lakers organization will find another superstar to carry the torch for the franchise in the future. Because everyone will want to play in LA. Even if they have a down period of a couple of years.

The Lakers have probably 10 of the Top 50 greatest players EVER to play for their franchise. And had all of them in their **prime**... The Mavs? They have had **1** player that is a Top 50 all time player. His name is Dirk. And no one knows when they will **ever** get another player that caliber.

So yeah, Mav fans will be sad when he is gone because Mav fans know how hard it is to get that transcendent player. Laker fans on the other hand are like millionaires complaining on how rough they have because valet parking is such a b*tch, or their damn gardener doesn't maintain the yard like he should.....

[Kobe_6/8]

Lol this thread has a lot on Dirk. I'll still watch but it will be the death of an era, led by true 90's alphas.

[TheBigVeto]

:coleman:

I remember the refs killing the 4th quarters while Dirk was no where to be found when it mattered. But again, who am I?

FTFY

[DMAVS41]

Dirk wasn't my "first love"... Jamal Mashburn was... and he won't be my last "love."

But I will be in a state of mourning when he retires.

That Bran is not realizing about the Mavs and the Lakers. Lakers fall @ss backwards into superstars. They get gifted Magic. They traded for Kareem. Shaq signed there. They get Wilt. Kobe told EVERYONE not to draft him and he would only play for the Lakers.

The Lakers organization will find another superstar to carry the torch for the franchise in the future. Because everyone will want to play in LA. Even if they have a down period of a couple of years.

The Lakers have probably 10 of the Top 50 greatest players EVER to play for their franchise. And had all of them in their **prime**... The Mavs? They have had **1** player that is a Top 50 all time player. His name is Dirk. And no one knows when they will **ever** get another player that caliber.

So yeah, Mav fans will be sad when he is gone because Mav fans know how hard it is to get that transcendent player. Laker fans on the other hand are like millionaires complaining on how rough they have because valet parking is such a b*tch, or their damn gardener doesn't maintain the yard like he should.....

Nash is a top 50 player all time in my opinion.

[tpols]

It's not about diminishing winning...and the Horry attack is a straw man. It's about understanding that so much goes into winning beyond the control of one player. Kobe with no Shaq and no other all time great his first 8 years....has 3 less rings. Does that make Kobe a lesser player? Hell no. It's all about circumstances on that front. People with brains like to talk about such things.

Hondo is an all time great. A true monster. He was one of the best two way players of all time.

You equating Hondo and Horry shows your ignorance.

Pardon me, but if youre talking mavs-lakers, and help.. Kobe with 03 mavs has a serious chance at winning a title. As did dirk led squad until the injury.. but a fresh 03 Kobe with legs from not having too deep runs prior... good chance its just 01 all over again against them spurs.

You never know how the career arc will pan out under completely different circumstances but hell, 03 peak athletic/skill kobe with plenty of rest could win a ring with what Dirk had.. its not far fetched at all.

[DMAVS41]

Pardon me, but if youre talking mavs-lakers, and help.. Kobe with 03 mavs has a serious chance at winning a title. As did dirk led squad until the injury.. but a fresh 03 Kobe with legs from not having too deep runs prior... good chance its just 01 all over again.

You never know how the career arc will pan out under completely different circumstances but hell, 03 peak athletic/skill kobe with plenty of rest could win a ring with what Dirk had.. its not far fetched at all.

that is just making my point for me. it's all based on circumstances.

the only problem with your assertion, which I agree with overall, is that you'd have to give Shaq an equal team to Kobe to make it fair. And in that case....Shaq or Duncan is winning as they were both better than Dirk/Kobe imo.

but i do agree with the sentiment of your post...it just happens to make my argument for me. which, if you believe what you said, I don't see how you could support the brans side of this discussion.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Pardon me, but if youre talking mavs-lakers, and help.. Kobe with 03 mavs has a serious chance at winning a title. As did dirk led squad until the injury.. but a fresh 03 Kobe with legs from not having too deep runs prior... good chance its just 01 all over again against them spurs.

You never know how the career arc will pan out under completely different circumstances but hell, 03 peak athletic/skill kobe with plenty of rest could win a ring with what Dirk had.. its not far fetched at all.

give Kobe at age 22 a teammate who is capable of wining 2 MVP's after leaving him, and a all star perimeter player next to him and Kobe wins multiple titles pretty fuccing easily

[RRR3]

give Kobe at age 22 a teammate who is capable of wining 2 MVP's after leaving him, and a all star perimeter player next to him and Kobe wins multiple titles pretty fuccing easily
you can't just say that. Jesus. You always fail to consider how teams work and just look at how good the 2nd and 3rd options are offensively and ignore fit and context.

I haven't even been watching the NBA seriously for long but I can tell you that you are being hasty assuming things and ignoring context.

[DMAVS41]

give Kobe at age 22 a teammate who is capable of wining 2 MVP's after leaving him, and a all star perimeter player next to him and Kobe wins multiple titles pretty fuccing easily


sure, in a vacuum, but lets look at reality.

Lets swap Dirk and Kobe....that makes it fair.


Are the 00 Mavs winning the title with Kobe? **** no.

Are the 01 Mavs winning the title with Kobe? Nope. The Lakers and Spurs would be clear cut better teams.

Are the 02 Mavs winnin the title with Kobe? Nah....the 02 Kings or 02 Lakers would beat them.

Are the 03 Mavs winning the title with Kobe? Certainly possible, but hardly a lock.

Are the 04 Mavs winning the title with Kobe? Hell no. That team was horribly flawed and Nash was hurt and Finley was declining in the playoffs.

So...nope. You get 1 title at most for what you are talking about. Sorry.

[Droid101]

He's been with me my whole adult basketball life, age 15 and up. I don't know what I'll do.

I'll be a Laker fan obvi, but I probably won't tune in as religiously as I once did. Call me spoiled, but Laker fans demand all time greatness.

[RRR3]

He's been with me my whole adult basketball life, age 15 and up. I don't know what I'll do.

I'll be a Laker fan obvi, but I probably won't tune in as religiously as I once did. Call me spoiled, but Laker fans demand all time greatness.
You won't tune in for Sacre Bleu? Blasphemy.

[Droid101]

You won't tune in for Sacre Bleu? Blasphemy.
http://cjzero.com/gifs/SacrePraysHoopGods.gif

[RRR3]

http://cjzero.com/gifs/SacrePraysHoopGods.gif
Mikan
Wilt
Kareem
Shaq
Sacre


Destiny. Hope he gets his deserved starting gig this year :applause:

[Droid101]

Destiny. Hope he gets his deserved starting gig this year :applause:
How could he not? Who is the competition?





















http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/t_article_image/uxzxjoxc1nfxg6xieruo.jpg

[RRR3]

That is an amazing picture. Saved on my iPod :cheers:

[TheMarkMadsen]

sure, in a vacuum, but lets look at reality.

Lets swap Dirk and Kobe....that makes it fair.


Are the 00 Mavs winning the title with Kobe? **** no.

Are the 01 Mavs winning the title with Kobe? Nope. The Lakers and Spurs would be clear cut better teams.

Are the 02 Mavs winnin the title with Kobe? Nah....the 02 Kings or 02 Lakers would beat them.

Are the 03 Mavs winning the title with Kobe? Certainly possible, but hardly a lock.

Are the 04 Mavs winning the title with Kobe? Hell no. That team was horribly flawed and Nash was hurt and Finley was declining in the playoffs.

So...nope. You get 1 title at most for what you are talking about. Sorry.

you're being so dense.. notice how I didn't say the exact same cast.. I said a guy who could leave Kobe and win 2 MVPs..

Kobe/Nash/Finley aint gonna work nobody would ever build around Kobe like that

but if you put a PF/C who is as good at his position as Nash is at his.. and you put a SF next to Kobe who was as good as Finley was at his position next to 22 year old Kobe for 5 years then they are going to win multiple titles..

Nash was elite as his position and Finley was an on again off again all star during his time with Dirk

an elite PF with an all star SF next to a prime Kobe for multiple years..

I'm not betting against them winning some gold..

[DMAVS41]

you're being so dense.. notice how I didn't say the exact same cast.. I said a guy who could leave Kobe and win 2 MVPs..

Kobe/Nash/Finley aint gonna work nobody would ever build around Kobe like that

but if you put a PF/C who is as good at his position as Nash is at his.. and you put a SF next to Kobe who was as good as Finley was at his position next to 22 year old Kobe for 5 years then they are going to win multiple titles..

Nash was elite as his position and Finley was an on again off again all star during his time with Dirk

an elite PF with an all star SF next to a prime Kobe for multiple years..

I'm not betting against them winning some gold..

Again...what players? Tell me the team that isn't absurdly all time loaded that Kobe is winning with those years?

Remember, he has to beat Dirk/Shaq...and Duncan led teams....or loaded Kings teams.

He can't have Dirk, Shaq, Duncan, or KG in this example...or you are just building another super team.

So please list out the potential teams Kobe is leading to multiple titles from 00 through 04 like you claimed.

I'm not being dense at all. I'm just trying to show you it isn't that simple.

Oh, and the other thing....the guy you place next to kobe that fills in for Nash...he has to be terrible in the 04 playoffs and be injured.

So by all means....show me the teams Kobe is leading that is beating Dirk/Shaq, Duncan, KG, and those Kings teams....because I don't see it outside of 03.

And again...they have to follow the Mavs pattern. The Mavs simply weren't a very good team in 00...certainly not a title contender. In 01 they were better, but Nash still had not reached star or even superstar level. You have to factor that in. The player you give Kobe can't be a superstar in 00 or 01....and has to be hurt in 04.

And the coach can't be phil jackson or larry brown or someone like that. Has to be a good, but not all time great playoff coach.

You see my point? You have two years of legit contending at best....and in one of those years (02)....he would have to face a loaded Dirk/Shaq team and or the 02 Kings as well. I just don't see him winning. They barely beat the 02 Kings with Shaq/Phil....I don't see how he's beating them with a far lesser player and coach.

[DMAVS41]

Nash was elite as his position and Finley was an on again off again all star during his time with Dirk

an elite PF with an all star SF next to a prime Kobe for multiple years..

I'm not betting against them winning some gold..

See. It's comments like this. What years are you talking about?

Because I can assure you Nash was not elite in 00, 01, or 04. I really don't think you know much about those Mavs or the players.

Why does Kobe get an elite pf and all star sf every year when Dirk didn't remotely have that?

Nash just wasn't a legit star until 02. And he was hurt in 04.

That is what I keep trying to get at. The Mavs just really weren't ready to contend in 00 (neither was Kobe good enough to lead a team to a title as the best player in 00), 01, or 04 with a flawed roster and injuries.

You are really just stuck with 02 and 03 as chances...and I'm very hesitant to call 02 a legit chance given the teams waiting for them.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Again...what players? Tell me the team that isn't absurdly all time loaded that Kobe is winning with those years?




Give Kobe an eventual 2x MVP the year before he wins them and they win rings,, especially when you put another all star by them

Kobe & KG + an all star ring = rings..

[DMAVS41]

Give Kobe an eventualy 2x MVP the year before he wins them and they win rings,, especially when you put another all star by them

Kobe & KG + an all star ring = rings..

KG is way way way way better than Nash was on the Mavs though.

I don't mean to be rude, but you clearly don't know what you are talking about.

Nash wasn't a star until 02. He was absolutely not elite.

Do you at least realize you are only talking about 2 years? Please go do some research or something. It's obvious you didn't watch back then....but at least try to learn.

Nash was not good enough in 00 or 01...and he was hurt in 04.

LOL...you just continue to make my point for me. Kobe needs a guy like prime/peak KG in your hypothetical. Wow....so amazing...Kobe might win a title with peak KG....shocking

So would/could have Dirk. KG/Dirk is a way better combo for winning in the playoffs than Nash/Dirk....so your hypothetical doesn't even make sense.

And I say he "might" win....because it's hardly a lock. Again....00 and 01 are removed because the Mavs weren't ready.

And is KG/Kobe going to beat the 02 Kings? I would definitely largely favor the Kings here.

They'd win for sure in 03 with no injuries, but I don't see what point that proves. A healthy Dirk/KG easily win in 03 as well.

[pastis]

the only year you can blame dirk to not win it all with a decent team was 03.
but again, DIrk played only 3 games out of 6 against Duncans Spurs....

04 nash shot under 40 % and so did finley.....

and i thin DIrk entered slowly his prime in 04/05.

i mentioned a few weeks ago in a thread about the denver nuggets series in2009, where Dirk averaged over 34.5 points 12 reb 4 ass on 53/39/92 with 66 % TS

Kobe averaged nearly the same, but Dirks second best man was Jason terry with 38% and Kobe had paul gasol with 17-19 ppg and 12 reb on 52-60 % with decend D.
Wouldnt Dirk win it all especially in thoise years 2006-2012 with a decent big man who averages PER over 20 with 17-19 ppg, over 50% from the field with decend D? And with a GOAT coach?

so well if kobe would have won some rings with nash as pg and finley as backup, so i think its defenetly not crazy to think about the fact that Dirk could have won some rings with Phil, Gasol, Odom, Fisher and MWP.

Terry was Dirks second best man over nearly a decade and he shots 3x times under 40 in the playoffs. over a very long strech Dirks Big man were Diop/Dampiers....no comment on that.

[clipps]

Being a player fan is a really beta thing to do. You people waste so much energy and time on human beings that could give 2 shits if your moms were getting face ****ed by Donald Trump.

[ImKobe]

Pretty much have been used to the Lakers without Kobe the last 2 seasons....Duncan and Dirk fans will have a harder time to adjust without them playing as they are used to seeing them play every season, whereas
Lakers have got only about 30-40 games from Kobe since he tore his achilles over 2 years ago.

Of course I'll keep following the GOAT NBA franchise as long as they are putting a decent product out there. Russell/Randle/Clarkson + any future FA signing will keep me interested for sure.

[Milbuck]

Being a player fan is a really beta thing to do. You people waste so much energy and time on a human being that could give 2 shits if your moms were getting face ****ed by Donald Trump.
As opposed to being a team fan where you waste time and energy on 12-15 human beings that could give 2 shits if your mom was getting face ****ed by Donald Trump?

[Legends66NBA7]

Being a player fan is a really beta thing to do. You people waste so much energy and time on human beings that could give 2 shits if your moms were getting face ****ed by Donald Trump.

Meh, you could say that about pretty much everything.

[ImKobe]

You are the one diminishing winning. I'm saying Hondo was better than Kobe. Why do you disagree?

Sounds like a fan of a player that ruined the chemistry of teams, choked away the 04 finals, missed the playoffs in his prime, choked away a 3-1 series lead and quit in a game 7, led his team to an epic elimination game loss in the finals after blowing a 24 point lead in the swing game of the same series, got swept as a huge favorite (Dirk undefeated against Kobe in playoffs....:lol )....

Go, become a Carmelo Anthony fan.:cheers:

- anyone with eyes sees who the better player is
- the GOAT defense focused all of their attention on an injured Kobe (shoulder injury from the previous series on that reverse dunk)
- Lakers had no chance of winning Game 7 on the road against a much better team, him taking more shots wouldn't have made a difference, they lost the previous game with him dropping 50 because they couldn't defend that Suns team
- Celtics were easily the better team in that series, team lost collectively, as evidenced in Game 6 of that 08 series

Wow, Dirk is undefeated against Kobe, like they went 1 v 1, right?
I'll take 5 rings and 7 Finals over 1 title and choking a 2 - 0 Finals lead