Better Playoff Supporting Cast...

[branslowski]

Wont put the names of the stars these players are supporting due to player hate bais:

Cast A:

17ppg 5ast 4reb 18.8 PER

13ppg 4reb 2ast 12.5 PER

15ppg 7reb 2ast 17 PER

16ppg 4reb 2ast 16.3 PER

VS

Cast B:

19ppg 11reb 3ast 24 PER

11ppg 4reb 2ast 10 PER

10ppg 2reb 2ast 10 PER

9ppg 8reb 2ast 15 PER


Now when you first see it without the names of whos cast it is, you will see cast A as a COLLECTIVE GROUP is better help...But once you know the names of who these players are cast members of, the agenda will soon peak and have you changing your mind saying "B is better", just because of agenda..I promise you...

[GIF REACTION]

The one with Pau Gasol

[branslowski]

The one with Pau Gasol

ofcource..:rolleyes:

Cause the collective group means nothing..

[RRR3]

Edit: 05 Mavericks

[aj1987]

Cast B because they performed better in the PO's.

[branslowski]

Cast B because they performed better in the PO's.

Yet Cast A as a group have better playoff numbers than than cast B does as a group...The only difference is the main guy they playin with.

[DMAVS41]

Yet Cast A as a group have better playoff numbers than than cast B does as a group...The only difference is the main guy they playin with.

Not many are going to agree that the 05 Mavs were better than the title winning Lakers.

Again, there is a reason why the 08 through 10 Lakers grade out much better than the 06 Mavs. And that is telling...as the 06 Mavs were clearly much better than the 05 Mavs.

Just take the L

[RRR3]

Why did you omit Odom?

[RRR3]

he didn't..
Well then he rounded the stats wrong. Where's Bynum? No one is saying he was amazing in the playoffs but he was more impactful than fisher ffs

[branslowski]

Not many are going to agree that the 05 Mavs were better than the title winning Lakers.

Again, there is a reason why the 08 through 10 Lakers grade out much better than the 06 Mavs. And that is telling...as the 06 Mavs were clearly much better than the 05 Mavs.

Just take the L

Take a L when my FACTUAL clear Raw player-by-player facts prove I'm correct?...What planet you from bruh?

I'm like Roy Jones Jr. in the 88' Olympics and you like the Asian and the Judges, I clearly won but ya bias is getting the best of you..

[branslowski]

Well then he rounded the stats wrong. Where's Bynum? No one is saying he was amazing in the playoffs but he was more impactful than fisher ffs

Bynum wit the 6ppg 4reb Finals avg? Stacked!!:oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

Take a L when my FACTUAL clear Raw player-by-player facts prove I'm correct?...What planet you from bruh?

I'm like Roy Jones Jr. in the 88' Olympics and you like the Asian and the Judges, I clearly won but ya bias is getting the best of you..

Raw stats only and PER is so dumb. Again, you won't stand by this analysis.

Just like you don't stand by the rings mean everything line.

How many times do you have to be shown this? Do I really need to post the Duncan or Dirk playoff numbers compared to Kobe again? Yet you claim Kobe was a better playoff performer than both of those guys.

At least be consistent man. It's dumb to argue this way, but at least be consistent with it.

[DMAVS41]

Bynum wit the 6ppg 4reb Finals avg? Stacked!!:oldlol:

So finals average matters a lot?

Kobe wit the 16/5/4 37% shooting in the 00 Finals. Wait, let me guess, it doesn't matter with Kobe for some reason....:roll:


Also, Bynum in 2010 was actually very good overall. A comparison on your own method:

Bynum 9/7/1 17.3 PER
Tyson Chandler 8/9/0 15.2 PER

So let me ask. Do you claim that Bynum was better than Tyson was in 10 vs 11?

[SyRyanYang]

Obviously Kobe had a decent supporting cast and the team was well coached and had great chemistry. But only haters would tell you that team was stacked. Just look at how many players are still active apart from Kobe and Pau.

[branslowski]

So finals average matters a lot?

Kobe wit the 16/5/4 37% shooting in the 00 Finals. Wait, let me guess, it doesn't matter with Kobe for some reason....:roll:


Also, Bynum in 2010 was actually very good overall. A comparison on your own method:

Bynum 9/7/1 17.3 PER
Tyson Chandler 8/9/0 15.2 PER

So let me ask. Do you claim that Bynum was better than Tyson was in 10 vs 11?

Get ethered on the thread topic with facts, and then jump to something that isn't relevent to the thread topic, classic, where'd you learn that?

[branslowski]

Obviously Kobe had a decent supporting cast and the team was well coached and had great chemistry. But only haters would tell you that team was stacked. Just look at how many players are still active apart from Kobe and Pau.

Well this is the REAL factual truth, but I like to hear the BS from those who are set out to discredit Kobe, it's funny to me and I'm bored.:oldlol:

[ShawkFactory]

Take a L when my FACTUAL clear Raw player-by-player facts prove I'm correct?...What planet you from bruh?

I'm like Roy Jones Jr. in the 88' Olympics and you like the Asian and the Judges, I clearly won but ya bias is getting the best of you..
You certainly have a high view of yourself.

[DMAVS41]

Get ethered on the thread topic with facts, and then jump to something that isn't relevent to the thread topic, classic, where'd you learn that?

Not relevant? Hardly...you brought up only Bynum's finals instead of his run. So I assumed that the finals averages really mattered a lot to you. If not...just say so.

I'll post it again as you have trouble with this stuff:

Bynum 9/7/1 17.3 PER
Tyson Chandler 8/9/0 15.2 PER

Who was better?

[Hittin_Shots]

Bynum changed Rondo's game completely.. He was attacking the basket all playoffs until bynum repetitvely changed his shot and kept him out of the key.

[DMAVS41]

Lets try this Brans.

Player A:

26/5/5 22.4 PER

Player B:

25/10/3 24 PER

Player C:

21/12/3 24.6 PER

Player D:

28/9/7 27.4 PER


Now, the only reason you'll rank your favorite player as the best here is because of the exact reasons you accuse others of. Hence why you honestly shouldn't be taken seriously. You aren't remotely consistent.

[RRR3]

OP, using your logic who had more help....


Kobe in the 2009 playoffs

Pau Gasol 18/11/3/1/2 on 58/-/71. 21.9 PER
Lamar Odom 12/9/2/1/1 on 52/52/61. 18.0 PER
Ariza 11/4/2/2/0 on 50/48/56. 14.7 PER


Or


LeBron in the 2013 playoffs

Wade 16/5/5/2/1 on 46/25 (1-4)/75. 18.7 PER
Bosh 12/7/2/1/2 on 46/41/73. 16.8 PER
Ray Allen 10/3/1/1/0 on 43/41/87. 14.4 PER

[branslowski]

Lets try this Brans.

Player A:

26/5/5 22.4 PER

Player B:

25/10/3 24 PER

Player C:

21/12/3 24.6 PER

Player D:

28/9/7 27.4 PER


Now, the only reason you'll rank your favorite player as the best here is because of the exact reasons you accuse others of. Hence why you honestly shouldn't be taken seriously. You aren't remotely consistent.

Nah, if we ranking single season and not career then Player D clearly had a better year...so what now?:confusedshrug:

[Legends66NBA7]

Who is the coach of Cast A and Cast B ?

[DMAVS41]

Nah, if we ranking single season and not career then Player D clearly had a better year...so what now?:confusedshrug:

That is what a career is made up of.

So if you go year by year....Lebron beats out Kobe in most years....yet you rank Kobe as the better player? This makes no sense at all unless your only reason for taking Kobe over Lebron is that he's played longer.

Is that your only reason? I thought you said Kobe was a better basketball player than Lebron.

I'm confused. Please clear this up.

[RRR3]

Lets try this Brans.

Player A:

26/5/5 22.4 PER

Player B:

25/10/3 24 PER

Player C:

21/12/3 24.6 PER

Player D:

28/9/7 27.4 PER


Now, the only reason you'll rank your favorite player as the best here is because of the exact reasons you accuse others of. Hence why you honestly shouldn't be taken seriously. You aren't remotely consistent.
Who are those? A is Kobe and D is LeBron?

[branslowski]

OP, using your logic who had more help....


Kobe in the 2009 playoffs

Pau Gasol 18/11/3/1/2 on 58/-/71. 21.9 PER
Lamar Odom 12/9/2/1/1 on 52/52/61. 18.0 PER
Ariza 11/4/2/2/0 on 50/48/56. 14.7 PER


Or


LeBron in the 2013 playoffs

Wade 16/5/5/2/1 on 46/25 (1-4)/75. 18.7 PER
Bosh 12/7/2/1/2 on 46/41/73. 16.8 PER
Ray Allen 10/3/1/1/0 on 43/41/87. 14.4 PER

Kobe in 09' playoffs...:confusedshrug:

It's not like Bosh was gonna be effective with LeBron turning him into a spot up 3pt shooter due to the fact that Bron needed spacing...If Bosh played with Kobe that same year...Bosh 19ppg 9reb 48%fg...:confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

Who are those? A is Kobe and D is LeBron?

B is Dirk

C is Duncan

[DMAVS41]

Kobe in 09' playoffs...:confusedshrug:

It's not like Bosh was gonna be effective with LeBron turning him into a spot up 3pt shooter due to the fact that Bron needed spacing...If Bosh played with Kobe that same year...Bosh 19ppg 9reb 48%fg...:confusedshrug:

Both Bosh and Gasol would have scored 19 ppg?

Do you realize how stupid this argument is?

Odom:

19/12/4 in 06 and 07....

So why don't you hate on Kobe for turning Odom into a 11/9/2 player the years they won titles?

Again...don't you hate being so inconsistent?

It really doesn't bother you at all?

[branslowski]

That is what a career is made up of.

So if you go year by year....Lebron beats out Kobe in most years....yet you rank Kobe as the better player? This makes no sense at all unless your only reason for taking Kobe over Lebron is that he's played longer.

Is that your only reason? I thought you said Kobe was a better basketball player than Lebron.

I'm confused. Please clear this up.

Career vs Career= Numbers combined with Accolades and winning

Single season vs Single season= Numbers and team winning record combined

That single season, Bron was better than Kobe...

Career, Bron slightly better raw stats, Kobe more All-Star app, All-NBA, All-Defensive, More Titles, More All-Time Playoff points and stls, not even debatable..:confusedshrug:

[RRR3]

Moving the goalposts.


When your own argument favors LeBron "b-b-b-but LeBron ball doe :cry: "


I could easily say "Kobe ball" accounts for Odoms and Bynums playoff stats

[branslowski]

Both Bosh and Gasol would have scored 19 ppg?

No, Gasol obviously wouldn't be on the team..:coleman:

[RRR3]

Kobes supporting cast does better than LeBrons in the playoffs= "LeBron ball doe"

Dirks cast (ostensibly) does better than Kobes= "Dirk sucks"


Either way Op makes sure Kobe wins.

[DMAVS41]

No, Gasol obviously wouldn't be on the team..:coleman:

Okay...and what about Odom

Why did Kobe turn him into such a diminished player? Or, do you think it was the product of being a 3rd/4th option on a team rather than the clear 2nd option?

[branslowski]

Okay...and what about Odom

Why did Kobe turn him into such a diminished player? Or, do you think it was the product of being a 3rd/4th option on a team rather than the clear 2nd option?

How did Kobe turn him into a diminished player when he was nothing before Kobe?...Meanwhile Bosh was a 20-10 player multiple All-Star before LeBron..:confusedshrug:

[Hittin_Shots]

Lol brans being torn apart, can't keep a straight argument.

[RRR3]

Pretty sure Odom was a ~17/10/5 guy before playing with Kobe.

[Hey Yo]

Get ethered on the thread topic with facts, and then jump to something that isn't relevent to the thread topic, classic, where'd you learn that?
aka ^^^...I just got fkin ruined so I'll deflect and look dumb as usual.

[DMAVS41]

Career vs Career= Numbers combined with Accolades and winning

Single season vs Single season= Numbers and team winning record combined

That single season, Bron was better than Kobe...

Career, Bron slightly better raw stats, Kobe more All-Star app, All-NBA, All-Defensive, More Titles, More All-Time Playoff points and stls, not even debatable..:confusedshrug:

I think this is horribly flawed logic.

But then again....it has to be in order to rank Kobe over Dirk in 2011.

Could you answer me this then....

Player A

35/5/5 28 PER led team to 45 wins
28/6/5 19.9 PER...led team to first round loss

Player B

31/7/7 28.1 PER led team to 50 wins
31/8/6 23.2 PER...led team to 2nd round (game 7 of 2nd round)

Who had the better single season?

[DMAVS41]

How did Kobe turn him into a diminished player when he was nothing before Kobe?...Meanwhile Bosh was a 20-10 player multiple All-Star before LeBron..:confusedshrug:

Nothing before Kobe?

He was a 17/10/4 player at age 24 before he even reached his prime before Kobe.

:roll:

[RRR3]

I think this is horribly flawed logic.

But then again....it has to be in order to rank Kobe over Dirk in 2011.

Could you answer me this then....

Player A

35/5/5 28 PER led team to 45 wins
28/6/5 19.9 PER...led team to first round loss

Player B

31/7/7 28.1 PER led team to 50 wins
31/8/6 23.2 PER...led team to 2nd round (game 7 of 2nd round)

Who had the better single season?
"Kobe because I like him better"
-Branslowski

[TheMarkMadsen]

Pretty sure Odom was a ~17/10/5 guy before playing with Kobe.

yeah and then was a 16/10/5 player with Kobe.. and as the 3rd option in 08 averaged 14/11/4..

averaged 6 assist per game playing alongside Kobe..

and then got his minutes cut by 10-12 per game which obviously caused his scoring to go down..

terrible example

[DMAVS41]

"Kobe because I like him better"
-Branslowski

This is gonna be hilarious. Can't wait to see this response.

On his own criteria...followed exactly. Lebron was clearly better than Kobe in the 06 season. Yet he doesn't actually believe that at all.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[DMAVS41]

yeah and then was a 16/10/5 player with Kobe.. and as the 3rd option in 08 averaged 14/11/4..

and then got his minutes cut by 10-12 per game which obviously caused his scoring to go down..

terrible example

Actually it's a perfect example.

Bosh was a 19/9/1 player in the playoffs in 2011 with Lebron as the clear cut 3rd option.

He then got his minutes cut way down per game (from 40 to 32) which obviously caused his coring to go down...not to mention his injuries...etc.

seriously...you can't make this shit up....it's ****ing perfect

[RRR3]

yeah and then was a 16/10/5 player with Kobe.. and as the 3rd option in 08 averaged 14/11/4..

averaged 6 assist per game playing alongside Kobe..

and then got his minutes cut by 10-12 per game which obviously caused his scoring to go down..

terrible example
Bosh averaged 19 PPG with LeBron in 11 iirc. In 2012, he averaged ~25 PPG when Wade was injured and he was the 2nd option.

[RRR3]

Actually it's a perfect example.

Bosh was a 19/9/1 player in the playoffs in 2011 with Lebron as the clear cut 3rd option.

He then got his minutes cut way down per game (from 40 to 32) which obviously caused his coring to go down

seriously...you can't make this shit up....it's ****ing perfect
You don't get it doe


2 of 6
LeBron ball
Stacked

[Legends66NBA7]

So yeah, who's are the coaches for both teams ?

[DMAVS41]

So yeah, who's are the coaches for both teams ?

Phil Jackson and Avery Johnson.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Actually it's a perfect example.

Bosh was a 19/9/1 player in the playoffs in 2011 with Lebron as the clear cut 3rd option.

He then got his minutes cut way down per game (from 40 to 32) which obviously caused his coring to go down...not to mention his injuries...etc.

seriously...you can't make this shit up....it's ****ing perfect

:oldlol: :oldlol:

Bosh had 5 straight years of averaging 23/10..

Bosh went from averaging 24 ppg to averaging 13 ppg at one point in the playoffs.. With Lebron Bosh's scoring went down 6 ppg, 11ppg at the most, his rebounding went down also..

Odom had one year of averaging 17/10.. with Kobe his scoring went down 2 ppg, his rebounding went up and his assist went up..

so you're wrong again..


and then the difference gets even more glaring when you look at what happened to their second options..

Gasol posted career highs with Kobe (up intil 2015) while Wade posted some of the worst stats of his career playing next to Lebron

[Legends66NBA7]

Phil Jackson and Avery Johnson.

All the more reason to take Cast B.

Better offensive system and were sound defensively.

[RRR3]

Wade and Bosh sure looked great without LeBron this year :eek:


It couldn't be possible that Wade declined could it? Nah...that would ruin Markmadsens agenda. Not like Wade was a top 5 player in 2011 or anything :rolleyes:

Meanwhile when Karl Malone and Gary Payton go from 20 PPG to way less "they declined doe"

Dwight Howard goes from consensus top 5 player to not even consensus best center with Kobe, Gasol (who we have seen is still capable of 18/12) puts up what 13/8, and Nash is a spot up shooter a year after being an allstar="Kobe was legendary in 2013 carrying scrubs gawdbe. leBrick sucks"

[DMAVS41]

:oldlol: :oldlol:

Bosh had 5 straight years of averaging 23/10..

Bosh went from averaging 24 ppg to averaging 13 ppg at one point in the playoffs.. With Lebron Bosh's scoring went down 6 ppg, 11ppg at the most, his rebounding went down also..

Odom had one year of averaging 17/10.. with Kobe his scoring went down 2 ppg, his rebounding went up and his assist went up..

so you're wrong again..


and then the difference gets even more glaring when you look at what happened to their second options..

Gasol posted career highs with Kobe (up intil 2015) while Wade posted some of the worst stats of his career playing next to Lebron


Odom had back to back playoffs of scoring over 19 points...then he was made a 3rd option and just a few years later he was scoring less 10 points per game.

Sorry...it's a very similar situation.

I'm not claiming Odom was as good as Bosh overall as a player...don't attack a straw man. Bosh being better does not play a role in this really at all. It's about production and the reasons why.

I'm saying that this whole argument is flawed from your side because it was the reduction in minutes combined with becoming the clear cut 3rd option that led to what you are talking about.

What do you guys expect? How is Bosh going to score 24 a game with Wade and Lebron on his team?

And why do you ignore 2011 when Bosh scored 19 a game in both the playoffs and regular season??????

What changed? Well, the obvious thing that changed was his role on the team.

Wrong? Just no....it's literally the exact same situation. Reduction in minutes combined with reduction in role on team.

[RRR3]

Odom had back to back playoffs of scoring over 19 points...then he was made a 3rd option and just a few years later he was scoring less 10 points per game.

Sorry...it's a very similar situation.

I'm not claiming Odom was as good as Bosh overall as a player...don't attack a straw man. Bosh being better does not play a role in this really at all. It's about production and the reasons why.

I'm saying that this whole argument is flawed from your side because it was the reduction in minutes combined with becoming the clear cut 3rd option that led to what you are talking about.

What do you guys expect? How is Bosh going to score 24 a game with Wade and Lebron on his team?

And why do you ignore 2011 when Bosh scored 19 a game in both the playoffs and regular season??????

What changed? Well, the obvious thing that changed was his role on the team.

Wrong? Just no....it's literally the exact same situation. Reduction in minutes combined with reduction in role on team.
:applause:


We know big Wade>Gasol (in general not in 2013 or 2014 compared to 2peat Gasol)

And we know Bosh>Odom


But you guys are being idiots and we will point out inconsistencies.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Dwight Howard goes from consensus top 5 player to not even consensus b mest center with Kobe, Gasol (who we have seen is still capable of 18/12) puts up what 13/8, and Nash is a spot up shooter a year after being an allstar="Kobe was legendary in 2013 carrying scrubs gawdbe. leBrick sucks"

Dwight actually put up much better numbers in LA than he did in Houston last year :oldlol:

Pau averaged 14 ppg in 2013, mostly due to the fact that he missed 40 games and was constantly injured..

Nash was just like Pau and often injured, missed over 30 games.. I dare you to post how many minutes the starting 5 of Nash/Kobe/Artest/Pau/Dwight played together..

but hey you might have a point, they did pretty well in the playoffs without Kobe.. oh wait, they suffered the worse series loss in lakers playoff history :lol

[RRR3]

Dwight actually put up much better numbers in LA than he did in Houston last year :oldlol:

Pau averaged 14 ppg in 2013, mostly due to the fact that he missed 40 games and was constantly injured..

Nash was just like Pau and often injured, missed over 30 games.. I dare you to post how many minutes the starting 5 of Nash/Kobe/Artest/Pau/Dwight played together..

but hey you might have a point, they did pretty well in the playoffs without Kobe.. oh wait, they suffered the worse series loss in lakers playoff history :lol
Oh, now context matters? Well, sort of since you ignored Dwight being injured this year. He was putting up great stats before he got hurt. And he put up much better stats in year 2014 and both years in the playoffs.


How did the Heat do without LeBron? Suddenly context will matter I'm sure.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Odom had back to back playoffs of scoring over 19 points...then he was made a 3rd option and just a few years later he was scoring less 10 points per game.



wait wait wait wait..

you just used a 12 game sample sized for Odom for the 353 game sample sized I used for Bosh..

GTFO not even gonna bother reading the rest of your drivel

Odom averaged 10ppg and 12ppg for his championship runs, he was one of the most inconsistent players (who was actually still good) in the league while Bosh was a 7x all star who had been averaging 23/10 for the past 5 years..

what's actually hilarious about you talking about Odom is that Odom was 6th man of the year in 2011, averaged 12 ppg in the playoffs and 14/9 in the regular season then he goes to Dirk (somebody who you always drool over making other players better) the very next year and has then proceeds to have worst year of his career.. Wow great job Dirk..

:roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Oh, now context matters? Well, sort of since you ignored Dwight being injured this year. He was putting up great stats before he got hurt. And he put up much better stats in year 2014 and both years in the playoffs.


How did the Heat do without LeBron? Suddenly context will matter I'm sure.

yeah the two players you're bringing up missing a combined 82 games matters..

:roll:

and yeah, context matters when Bosh missed 40 games and you have Bill Walker starting 13 games for you after the all star break

you seriously cant be this stupid you can't just ignore the fact that the players you're trying to use as examples missed a combined 120 games in the seasons you're mentioning.. :oldlol:

[RRR3]

Bosh was playing in the "least" though remember

[RRR3]

yeah the two players you're bringing up missing a combined 82 games matters..

:roll:

and yeah, context matters when Bosh missed 40 games and you have Bill Walker starting 13 games for you after the all star break

you seriously cant be this stupid you can't just ignore the fact that the players you're trying to use as examples missed a combined 120 games in the seasons you're mentioning.. :oldlol:
It stuns me how you can't see your own hypocrisy. This past finals made me realize LeBrons help is irrelevant in these debates since you idiots act like players on the level of Mozgov and TT are superstars. It honestly doesn't matter to you fools who he plays with. Either he wins and it doesn't count or he losses and he is the biggest choker of all time.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Bosh was playing in the "least" though remember

you do realize that these numbers you're bringing up for Odom came while he played in the east right,..

[RRR3]

you do realize that these numbers you're bringing up for Odom came while he played in the east right,..
On the Heat? Ok. but I don't discredit players in the east like you do.

Pretty sure Odom was good on clippers too. And I know Bosh>Odom. No shit.

[DMAVS41]

wait wait wait wait..

you just used a 12 game sample sized for Odom for the 353 game sample sized I used for Bosh..

GTFO not even gonna bother reading the rest of your drivel

Odom averaged 10ppg and 12ppg for his championship runs, he was one of the most inconsistent players (who was actually still good) in the league while Bosh was a 7x all star who had been averaging 23/10 for the past 5 years..

what's actually hilarious about you talking about Odom is that Odom was 6th man of the year in 2011, averaged 12 ppg in the playoffs and 14/9 in the regular season then he goes to Dirk (somebody who you always drool over making other players better) and has then proceeds to have worst year of his career.. Wow great job Dirk

:roll:


Dude. You aren't understanding the argument.

I'm not making the argument that Kobe diminished Odom. The stats are to show you what Odom was capable of...that is all.

Again...I'm not claiming Kobe diminished Odom.

I'm saying that what diminished Odom's production was a reduction in minutes and role.

Just like Bosh.

Like...what do you expect to happen to a player that goes from first option on an average team to 3rd option on a title contending team....while playing far less minutes.

Tell me what you would expect to happen?

You talk about sample size.

But you are the on making that mistake, not me, as again...I'm not claiming Kobe made Odom worse like you are with Lebron and Bosh.

You are the one ignoring Bosh in 11. A rather large sample in which he was scoring 19 a game in both the regular season and playoffs.

Why aren't you talking about Bosh being hurt in 12. Or the fact that his minutes dropped 8.3 per game and his role was reduced as well.

Take a look at minute normalized production for the Heat vs the Raptors....again...this includes going from a 1st option on an average team to a 3rd option on a bad team:

Regular season

Raptors (4 seasons before Heat): 22/10/2

Heat (4 seasons): 18/8/2


Playoffs

Raptors: 19/9/3

Heat: 15/8/1


I'm just not seeing anything you wouldn't expect given the circumstances of going from a first option and go to guy on an average team to a clear cut 3rd option on a title contender.

[TheMarkMadsen]

It stuns me how you can't see your own hypocrisy. This past finals made me realize LeBrons help is irrelevant in these debates since you idiots act like players on the level of Mozgov and TT are superstars. It honestly doesn't matter to you fools who he plays with. Either he wins and it doesn't count or he losses and he is the biggest choker of all time.

:wtf: :biggums:

since when were we talking about Lebron in the finals.. insecure much..??

I've never seen anybody call Mozgo & TT superstars.. what are you even talking about

but ok

[TheMarkMadsen]

if somebody said that they were trolling, but what do you expect when you bran stans sit here for 7 years acting like Kobe's 08-10 teams were some all time great stacked teams and then complain about lebron's teammates when he spends 6 straight years of his prime playing with 2 all stars per season

[RRR3]

if somebody said that they were trolling, but what do you expect when you bran stans sit here for 7 years acting like Kobe's 08-10 teams were some all time great stacked teams and then complain about lebron's teammates when he spends 6 straight years of his prime playing with 2 all stars per season
No one is acting like Kobes teams were all-time stacked. Now who's insecure?

[DMAVS41]

if somebody said that they were trolling, but what do you expect when you bran stans sit here for 7 years acting like Kobe's 08-10 teams were some all time great stacked teams and then complain about lebron's teammates when he spends 6 straight years of his prime playing with 2 all stars per season


But we can be honest.

The 14 Heat and 15 Cavs were shitty supporting casts compared to other teams making the finals. The 08 through 10 Lakers were clearly better help than the 14 Heat and 15 Cavs.

Just like the 11 Heat supporting cast was clearly better than the 08 through 10 Lakers.

It's the "6 straight year of his prime playing with 2 all stars per season" type talk that starts problems.

[Heatles201]

But we can be honest.

The 14 Heat and 15 Cavs were shitty supporting casts compared to other teams making the finals. The 08 through 10 Lakers were clearly better help than the 14 Heat and 15 Cavs.

Just like the 11 Heat supporting cast was clearly better than the 08 through 10 Lakers.

It's the "6 straight year of his prime playing with 2 all stars per season" type talk that starts problems.

2014 Heat role players turned into shit come finals time..
Think Rashard lewis was the 4th leading scorer in totally for the heat... RASHARD lewis :wtf: . Chalmers/Cole played like total shit when they contributed in part to previous chips, especially gm 4 where Chalmers went berserk vs OKC

[Rocketswin2013]

That Lakers team was relatively stacked. In 2010, Bryant had a much better supporting cast than pretty much every MVP caliber player.

[Fire Colangelo]

brans nowhere to be found :roll:

[pastis]

he only year you can blame dirk to not win it all with a decent team was 03.
but again, DIrk played only 3 games out of 6 against Duncans Spurs....

04 nash shot under 40 % and so did finley.....

and i thin DIrk entered slowly his prime in 04/05.

i mentioned a few weeks ago in a thread about the denver nuggets series in2009, where Dirk averaged over 34.5 points 12 reb 4 ass on 53/39/92 with 66 % TS

Kobe averaged nearly the same, but Dirks second best man was Jason terry with 38% and Kobe had paul gasol with 17-19 ppg and 12 reb on 52-60 % with decend D.
Wouldnt Dirk win it all especially in thoise years 2006-2012 with a decent big man who averages PER over 20 with 17-19 ppg, over 50% from the field with decend D? And with a GOAT coach?

so well if kobe would have won some rings with nash as pg and finley as backup, so i think its defenetly not crazy to think about the fact that Dirk could have won some rings with Phil, Gasol, Odom, Fisher and MWP.

Terry was Dirks second best man over nearly a decade and he shots 3x times under 40 in the playoffs. over a very long strech Dirks Big man were Diop/Dampiers....no comment on that.