Convince someone unfamiliar with the sport of an Individuals Greatness

[ArbitraryWater]

Simply talk about one individual that you care about or think is the GOAT, that others may not know, just to have them know a bit more.. just fun.

Obviously they can't really tell if that guy is the GOAT or anything, since they don't know the other athletes from the sport. But to maybe compare what that individual did in terms of greatness and impressiveness to someone from a sport you DO know, like me saying, 'Walder is the Jordan of Table Tennis'. In a different sense/manner as you will find out, but sheer talent and domination at his peak. There really is no one with a similar career path to Waldner.

So, I know there are not alot of Table Tennis fans, so I will talk about Table Tennis player Jan Ove Waldner.

Jan Ove Waldner
Born: 1965, Stockholm

Nicknames:
"Mozart of table tennis"
"Evergreen tree"

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/Jan-Ove_Waldner.JPG/220px-Jan-Ove_Waldner.JPG

http://www.spox.com/de/sport/mehrsport/1104/Bilder/jan-ove-waldner-514.jpg

I have a particular love for Jan Ove Waldner, not just because he was god gifted, but because he had personality disease. Waldner thought he was 2 different persons, and had a therapist to deal with it.

In 1974, when he was 9 years old he was first invited to a training camp by a club in Sweden, he didn't like being that far away from his family, but when his mother came to get him he told her he wanted to stay, since there was a big tournament the next day.

3 days after his 12th birthday, he had his first game in the top Swedish Table Tennis league. Few weeks later he won his first match against Dennis Pettersson, while being 140 cm tall.

In 1980 he was for the first time in the Table Tennis Mecca, in China. He played infront of 12.000 people in the Shanghai Open, and for the first time makes experience with the Asian work ethic. He plays alot of different teenagers, loses alot, and wins alot of experience. And his desire to winning continues burning.

In 1982 at the age of 16 years old, he participates at the European Championships!

Waldner beats former World Champion Stellan Bengtsson, and moves all the way to the FINAL, where he plays against huge favorite, the also Swedish, Mikael Appelgren. Waldner wins the first 2 sets, and ends up losing barely (TT matches are first to 4 sets/best of 7).

Obviously, not Appelgren, but Waldner is making the headlines. National coach Korpa says:
"I have never seen such a complete player at this age, he can beat everyone, also the Chinese. His variability, perfekt services, pace changers will have to be dealt with by coaches for years to come. How can we answer that?"

In 1984 he wins the 'Europe Top 12', a tournament he would win an overall 7 times, and 4 times twice, a record.

In 1987, 21 year old Waldner makes his first big move at the World Championship.

Waldner, suffering from a virus, over 40

[ArbitraryWater]

Sorry, wrong forum, I guess... although it could be NBA related if one would try to compare the achievements to an NBA player.

Never the less, feel free to move to the OTC lounge, please don't delete.

[ArbitraryWater]

http://i.gyazo.com/1e96ca2cca6594c7d230f099278b8695.png
(16 at the EC Final)

http://www.ittf.com/profiles/men/WALDNER/waldner.jpg

http://i.gyazo.com/2350349657aad105291b92ee16f1a285.png

http://qzedu.gov.cn:8000/tbfd/gzpdx/tbfd/g2yy/08/images/P130.jpg

[rmt]

Roger Federer

Record - stands alone
17 Grand Slam Titles
3 GS per year - 3 times
2 GS per year - 2 times
26 GS Finals
37 GS Semi-Finals
45 GS Quarter-Finals
10 Consecutive GS F
23 Consecutive GS SF
36 Consecutive GS QF
63 Consecutive GS appearances
291 GS match wins
147 GS hard court match wins
Reached all 4 GS Finals (in a calendar year) 3 times

302 weeks at #1 - record
237 Consecutive weeks at #1 - record
Year End Championships - 6 - tied for #1
Most Wimbledon singles - 7 - tied for #1
Most US Open singles - 5 - tied for #1

Too much to list - still #2 in the world (turns 34 next month) - BEAUTIFUL tennis - longest/highest peak + longevity

[Prime_Shaq]

Roger Federer

Record - stands alone
17 Grand Slam Titles
3 GS per year - 3 times
2 GS per year - 2 times
26 GS Finals
37 GS Semi-Finals
45 GS Quarter-Finals
10 Consecutive GS F
23 Consecutive GS SF
36 Consecutive GS QF
63 Consecutive GS appearances
291 GS match wins
147 GS hard court match wins
Reached all 4 GS Finals (in a calendar year) 3 times

302 weeks at #1 - record
237 Consecutive weeks at #1 - record
Year End Championships - 6 - tied for #1
Most Wimbledon singles - 7 - tied for #1
Most US Open singles - 5 - tied for #1

Too much to list - still #2 in the world (turns 34 next month) - BEAUTIFUL tennis - longest/highest peak + longevity
:applause: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Yoda]

Roger Federer


17 Grand Slam Titles

A lot of pancakes that is. Convinced of his greatness I am.

[Milbuck]

Roger Federer

Record - stands alone
17 Grand Slam Titles
3 GS per year - 3 times
2 GS per year - 2 times
26 GS Finals
37 GS Semi-Finals
45 GS Quarter-Finals
10 Consecutive GS F
23 Consecutive GS SF
36 Consecutive GS QF
63 Consecutive GS appearances
291 GS match wins
147 GS hard court match wins
Reached all 4 GS Finals (in a calendar year) 3 times

302 weeks at #1 - record
237 Consecutive weeks at #1 - record
Year End Championships - 6 - tied for #1
Most Wimbledon singles - 7 - tied for #1
Most US Open singles - 5 - tied for #1

Too much to list - still #2 in the world (turns 34 next month) - BEAUTIFUL tennis - longest/highest peak + longevity
10-23 career record against his biggest rival (30% win%)

[ArbitraryWater]

Roger Federer

Record - stands alone
17 Grand Slam Titles
3 GS per year - 3 times
2 GS per year - 2 times
26 GS Finals
37 GS Semi-Finals
45 GS Quarter-Finals
10 Consecutive GS F
23 Consecutive GS SF
36 Consecutive GS QF
63 Consecutive GS appearances
291 GS match wins
147 GS hard court match wins
Reached all 4 GS Finals (in a calendar year) 3 times

302 weeks at #1 - record
237 Consecutive weeks at #1 - record
Year End Championships - 6 - tied for #1
Most Wimbledon singles - 7 - tied for #1
Most US Open singles - 5 - tied for #1

Too much to list - still #2 in the world (turns 34 next month) - BEAUTIFUL tennis - longest/highest peak + longevity

I think Rafa's story would be a bit more heroic and interesting imo... but after the OP I won't bother with that, get it done Milbuck!

[ArbitraryWater]

Also, interesting comment by TT player Michael Maze, talking about table tennis compared to other sports, why it may not be as entertaining to a casual.

In Tennis, you hit a big serve and bam, ace, service winner, everyone can see it, you have a device right there calculating the miles..

Nobody in Table Tennis will calcuate the spin on a serve, and many won't even see it.

[rmt]

10-23 career record against his biggest rival (30% win%)

I agree that Nadal is a BAD matchup for Federer, but context is a must. Federer got to the finals on clay/slow surfaces to play the Clay GOAT, and Nadal failed to get to finals on fast surfaces. Nadal is fodder for the rest of the field on fast surfaces (see his EARLY exits at Wimbledon the past few years) while Federer gets to the Finals. The majority of their matches are on slow surfaces favorable to Nadal.

Nadal
14 Grand Slams - 9 of them at French Open on clay.

Yes, he is the Clay GOAT, but elsewhere, he's not GOAT material - 5 GS on all non-clay surfaces. Federer's great on ALL surfaces - 7 Wimbledons, 5 US Opens, 5 Australian Opens, 1 French Open (of course, he was beaten 4 times in FO Finals and once in SF by Nadal).

[ArbitraryWater]

I agree that Nadal is a BAD matchup for Federer, but context is a must. Federer got to the finals on clay/slow surfaces to play the Clay GOAT, and Nadal failed to get to finals on fast surfaces. Nadal is fodder for the rest of the field on fast surfaces (see his EARLY exits at Wimbledon the past few years) while Federer gets to the Finals. The majority of their matches are on slow surfaces favorable to Nadal.

Nadal
14 Grand Slams - 9 of them at French Open on clay.

Yes, he is the Clay GOAT, but elsewhere, he's not GOAT material - 5 GS on all non-clay surfaces. Federer's great on ALL surfaces - 7 Wimbledons, 5 US Opens, 5 Australian Opens, 1 French Open (of course, he was beaten 4 times in FO Finals and once in SF by Nadal).

From 2006-2011 Rafa made 5 straight Wimbledon finals, would have been 6 if not for an injury that kept him from participating in 2009.
How is that not GOAT tier?

Another injury pretty much robbed him from the 2014 Australian Open, which would have given him both multiple US and AO titles, while missing/losing plenty of these tournaments due to injuries.

Looks sufficient to me.

[Milbuck]

I agree that Nadal is a BAD matchup for Federer, but context is a must. Federer got to the finals on clay/slow surfaces to play the Clay GOAT, and Nadal failed to get to finals on fast surfaces. Nadal is fodder for the rest of the field on fast surfaces (see his EARLY exits at Wimbledon the past few years) while Federer gets to the Finals. The majority of their matches are on slow surfaces favorable to Nadal.Nadal from age 18-21 during Fed's peak of 04-07 won 3 slams on clay, made 2 finals on grass, and 2 QF on HC. Federer from age 18-21? 2 QF. 1 on grass, 1 on clay.

So we're penalizing Nadal for not making final after final on every surface in his late teens and early 20s during Federer's peak, despite Federer doing essentially nothing of note at the same age.

And Nadal doesn't just have the advantage on clay. Dude is 9-6 against Fed on HC and down just 1-2 on grass, where one of the losses was a 5 setter. And all 3 grass court matches were from 06-08, 2 years into and 1 year right out of Fed's peak, while Nadal was in his late teens-early 20s. Fed for all his multi-surface dominance is just one lost set from having a losing record to Nadal on all 3 surfaces.
From 2006-2011 Rafa made 5 straight Wimbledon finals, would have been 6 if not for an injury that kept him from participating in 2009.
How is that not GOAT tier?

Another injury pretty much robbed him from the 2014 Australian Open, which would have given him both multiple US and AO titles, while missing/losing plenty of these tournaments due to injuries.

Looks sufficient to me.
I don't think people understand just how good Rafa used to be on grass. It's been well documented how his knee issues, even when they're not directly hurting him, are exacerbated by the unevenness of grass courts.

Like I don't understand what people think is going on with him, the guy didn't just magically go from a 2x Wimbledon champion and 5x finalist to a grass scrub, like he "forgot" how to play on grass, he's just physically limited on that surface.

Though for the 2014 AO Final I will say Wawrinka had that one with or without Rafa's back injury. Dude was on god mode that night, well deserved trophy.

[rmt]

From 2006-2011 Rafa made 5 straight Wimbledon finals, would have been 6 if not for an injury that kept him from participating in 2009.
How is that not GOAT tier?

Another injury pretty much robbed him from the 2014 Australian Open, which would have given him both multiple US and AO titles, while missing/losing plenty of these tournaments due to injuries.

Looks sufficient to me.

Injuries are always an excuse for Nadal - he suddenly comes up with a back injury when he's down a set and break to Wawrinka, but he's recovered enough from said injury to win a clay court tournament a couple of weeks later - suuuure.

Are you saying that his 23-10 head to head record vs Federer, his 14 GSs of which 9 are on clay and best of all, his RECORD 248 WEEKS at #2 qualifies him for GOAT over Federer's resume?

[ArbitraryWater]

Injuries are always an excuse for Nadal - he suddenly comes up with a back injury when he's down a set and break to Wawrinka, but he's recovered enough from said injury to win a clay court tournament a couple of weeks later - suuuure.

Are you saying that his 23-10 head to head record vs Federer, his 14 GSs of which 9 are on clay and best of all, his RECORD 248 WEEKS at #2 qualifies him for GOAT over Federer's resume?

yeah, I'm sure he decided to stop playing in the final of a Grand Slam after losing the first set... he just DECIDED to limp around the court, miss services, can't get to returns and normal ground strokes.... just **** it, screw this match, I lost the first set, let me give this man this one for free.


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[rmt]

Nadal from age 18-21 during Fed's peak of 04-07 won 3 slams on clay, made 2 finals on grass, and 2 QF on HC. Federer from age 18-21? 2 QF. 1 on grass, 1 on clay.

So we're penalizing Nadal for not making final after final on every surface in his late teens and early 20s during Federer's peak, despite Federer doing essentially nothing of note at the same age.

And Nadal doesn't just have the advantage on clay. Dude is 9-6 against Fed on HC and down just 1-2 on grass, where one of the losses was a 5 setter. And all 3 grass court matches were from 06-08, 2 years into and 1 year right out of Fed's peak, while Nadal was in his late teens-early 20s. Fed for all his multi-surface dominance is just one lost set from having a losing record to Nadal on all 3 surfaces.


And why are you so focused on when each was age 18-21? Nadal developed early and Federer developed late (and still managed to win more)? This is about TOTAL resume. Besides, Fed (currently #2) seems like he's outlasted Nadal (#10) despite being 5 years older.

You do know that they have slowed down and homogenized ALL the surfaces in order to create rivalries (have the same people in the finals week after week). They didn't want to have clay court specialists who wouldn't play Wimbledon or grass court specialists who wouldn't play French Open. They fiddled with the surfaces and the balls - all for the almighty dollar.

If Nadal were unlucky enough to have been born 10 years earlier, he wouldn't have won any non-clay GS with the fast surfaces/balls they've had throughout tennis history.

[rmt]

yeah, I'm sure he decided to stop playing in the final of a Grand Slam after losing the first set... he just DECIDED to limp around the court, miss services, can't get to returns and normal ground strokes.... just **** it, screw this match, I lost the first set, let me give this man this one for free.


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Look at Milbuck's post - Wawrinka was ON FIRE - he was gonna beat Nadal anyways - after beating Djokovic (the 4 time Australian Open champ) the round before.

[ArbitraryWater]

Look at Milbuck's post - Wawrinka was ON FIRE - he was gonna beat Nadal anyways - after beating Djokovic (the 4 time Australian Open champ) the round before.

What does this have to with your shitty post?

Who would win in a match between healthy players is speculation, the injury is a fact.

[AnaheimLakers24]

Tennis isnt a real sport

[rmt]

What does this have to with your shitty post?

Who would win in a match between healthy players is speculation, the injury is a fact.

Peace. You may keep your opinion if you think Nadal is GOAT. I assure you MOST of the rest of the world agrees with me that Federer is GOAT. You might want to just check each on Wiki - you will see the difference in their accomplishments.

[Milbuck]

And why are you so focused on when each was age 18-21? Nadal developed early and Federer developed late (and still managed to win more)? This is about TOTAL resume. Besides, Fed (currently #2) seems like he's outlasted Nadal (#10) despite being 5 years older.

You do know that they have slowed down and homogenized ALL the surfaces in order to create rivalries (have the same people in the finals week after week). They didn't want to have clay court specialists who wouldn't play Wimbledon or grass court specialists who wouldn't play French Open. They fiddled with the surfaces and the balls - all for the almighty dollar.

If Nadal were unlucky enough to have been born 10 years earlier, he wouldn't have won any non-clay GS with the fast surfaces/balls they've had throughout tennis history.
How are the ages of 18-21 not relevant? You brought up how Nadal wasn't making tons of finals on all surfaces during Fed's peak, during which Nadal was 18-21 years old. So it follows that if you penalize Nadal for what he didn't do at that age...you should for Federer as well right? And when you do it's clear Nadal did substantially more. The players emerging at different points in their career doesn't justify altering the standards.

If Nadal was born 10 years earlier, 20 years earlier, 30 years earlier, his dominance wouldn't change. Greatness adapts. Acting like Nadal's game would develop the exact same in a different context is absurd considering Nadal has shown time and time again in his career that he can change his game.

Doesn't have a big enough serve to dominate on HC? Changes his serve motion at the 2010 USO, upping his avg serve speed significantly, and dominates to win the tournament.

Too much spin on his groundstrokes? Develops the ability to balance spin for pace and crack flat forehands on faster surfaces...see 2013 hardcourt season. Goes from ripping 3500-4500 rpm bombs on clay to flattening out his groundies and winning Indian Wells and sweeping the NAmerican HC swing (23 straight Ws on HC).

Too baseline based? Develops into one of the best volleyers in the sport, so much so that at one point one of the best net players of all time (McEnroe) called him a better volleyer than Fed himself.

This idea that Nadal wouldn't adapt to whatever setting/circumstances he was in is ridiculous. No one in the past decade has adapted their game more than Nadal. Not Djokovic, not Murray, not stubborn ass Fed who is content getting his ass routinely kicked by Nadal.

Btw, I never said Nadal was the GOAT or that Federer isn't. Just putting your original post on Fed's career into proper perspective.

[rmt]

How are the ages of 18-21 not relevant? You brought up how Nadal wasn't making tons of finals on all surfaces during Fed's peak, during which Nadal was 18-21 years old. So it follows that if you penalize Nadal for what he didn't do at that age...you should for Federer as well right? And when you do it's clear Nadal did substantially more. The players emerging at different points in their career doesn't justify altering the standards.

If Nadal was born 10 years earlier, 20 years earlier, 30 years earlier, his dominance wouldn't change. Greatness adapts. Acting like Nadal's game would develop the exact same in a different context is absurd considering Nadal has shown time and time again in his career that he can change his game.

Doesn't have a big enough serve to dominate on HC? Changes his serve motion at the 2010 USO, upping his avg serve speed significantly, and dominates to win the tournament.

Too much spin on his groundstrokes? Develops the ability to balance spin for pace and crack flat forehands on faster surfaces...see 2013 hardcourt season. Goes from ripping 3500-4500 rpm bombs on clay to flattening out his groundies and winning Indian Wells and sweeping the NAmerican HC swing (23 straight Ws on HC).

Too baseline based? Develops into one of the best volleyers in the sport, so much so that at one point one of the best net players of all time (McEnroe) called him a better volleyer than Fed himself.

This idea that Nadal wouldn't adapt to whatever setting/circumstances he was in is ridiculous. No one in the past decade has adapted their game more than Nadal. Not Djokovic, not Murray, not stubborn ass Fed who is content getting his ass routinely kicked by Nadal.

Btw, I never said Nadal was the GOAT or that Federer isn't. Just putting your original post on Fed's career into proper perspective.

Look, if you want to believe that Nadal would have dominated when 3 of the 4 GSs were on lightning-fast, low-bouncing grass, go ahead. I'll believe that if he had been playing at that time, he'd have won his French Opens and no other Grand Slams.

If you want to believe that surface doesn't matter, please explain why the great Pete Sampras who won 7 Wimbledon titles couldn't even REACH a French Open final. Why did players like McEnroe, Connors, Edberg and Becker who won a total of 27 GSs only managed to REACH (and never win) 2 French Open finals? Why does Djokovic - the reigning #1 have 9 GSs - none of them at the French Open? If these players are/were great and "greatness adapts" why between 6 of the greatest tennis players who ever lived, has none of them win a French Open title? At total of 43 GSs between them and not a single French Open - I guess surface DOES matter.

[ArbitraryWater]

How are the ages of 18-21 not relevant? You brought up how Nadal wasn't making tons of finals on all surfaces during Fed's peak, during which Nadal was 18-21 years old. So it follows that if you penalize Nadal for what he didn't do at that age...you should for Federer as well right? And when you do it's clear Nadal did substantially more. The players emerging at different points in their career doesn't justify altering the standards.

If Nadal was born 10 years earlier, 20 years earlier, 30 years earlier, his dominance wouldn't change. Greatness adapts. Acting like Nadal's game would develop the exact same in a different context is absurd considering Nadal has shown time and time again in his career that he can change his game.

Doesn't have a big enough serve to dominate on HC? Changes his serve motion at the 2010 USO, upping his avg serve speed significantly, and dominates to win the tournament.

Too much spin on his groundstrokes? Develops the ability to balance spin for pace and crack flat forehands on faster surfaces...see 2013 hardcourt season. Goes from ripping 3500-4500 rpm bombs on clay to flattening out his groundies and winning Indian Wells and sweeping the NAmerican HC swing (23 straight Ws on HC).

Too baseline based? Develops into one of the best volleyers in the sport, so much so that at one point one of the best net players of all time (McEnroe) called him a better volleyer than Fed himself.

This idea that Nadal wouldn't adapt to whatever setting/circumstances he was in is ridiculous. No one in the past decade has adapted their game more than Nadal. Not Djokovic, not Murray, not stubborn ass Fed who is content getting his ass routinely kicked by Nadal.

Btw, I never said Nadal was the GOAT or that Federer isn't. Just putting your original post on Fed's career into proper perspective.

:bowdown:

[ArbitraryWater]

Hey TLP, you just made a post here praising how insightful and detailed my OP was.. put it up again :cheers:

[Milbuck]

Look, if you want to believe that Nadal would have dominated when 3 of the 4 GSs were on lightning-fast, low-bouncing grass, go ahead. I'll believe that if he had been playing at that time, he'd have won his French Opens and no other Grand Slams.

If you want to believe that surface doesn't matter, please explain why the great Pete Sampras who won 7 Wimbledon titles couldn't even REACH a French Open final. Why did players like McEnroe, Connors, Edberg and Becker who won a total of 27 GSs only managed to REACH (and never win) 2 French Open finals? Why does Djokovic - the reigning #1 have 9 GSs - none of them at the French Open? If these players are/were great and "greatness adapts" why between 6 of the greatest tennis players who ever lived, has none of them win a French Open title? At total of 43 GSs between them and not a single French Open - I guess surface DOES matter.
I believe it because I'm not operating under the totally unreasonable assumption that we're just dropping Nadal as he is today into a different era. Of course if you take a player with skillset X outside of the era where skillset X is favorable and into an era where it isn't as effective, that player won't be as successful. I don't see how this is a meaningful point at all.

Are you trying to tell me that if Nadal had grown up 10, 15, 20 years ago he would have the exact same game as he does today?

By that logic one could just as easily say that Sampras would get owned against prime Nadal and prime Djokovic playing in this era's game.

[StephHamann]

Phil "The Power" Taylor

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2010/1/1/1262385218248/Phil-Taylor-001.jpg

16x World Champion of Darts

greatest english sportsman ever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvnP2VwQb6E
living legend

one of the coolest intros

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bVSGi9nhzU

:bowdown:

[outbreak]

For me it's gotta be Sir Donald Bradman.

He played cricket for Australia from 1928-1948 and finished with 6996 runs with a batting average of 99.94 (how many runs he makes each time he bats). The next highest batting average is 60.97 (only 3 other players even have averages over 60) and really anything over around 40 is considered decent and over 50 is considered great (Sachin Tendulkar who some of you may have heard of averaged 53 and is considered one of the best recent batsman). I think that stat is widely acknowledged as one of the greatest in all sports. He went in to his last test averaging 101 but went out for 0 and dropped it below 100. It's like an NBA player averaging 60-70ppg for his entire career.

In most sports you can argue that someone playing in an earlier era had weaker competition but in cricket they had no helmets (people have died from being hit in the head), thin bats that don't have all the modern tech in them so it was harder to hit runs, uncovered pitches (the pitch is the part they play on, if it's open to the weather it can become unpredictable and harder to judge how a ball will bounce off it), fields these days have ropes to make the boundaries short, tours that lasted months at a time on a boat and no fielding restrictions or restrictions on people bowling at your head. There's debate at the moment about how it favours batsman too much now and they still come nowhere near his average.

England came up with a tactic against him and his austrlaian side (bodyline) to stack the field on his leg side and just bowl bouncers and balls trying to hit his body and head which caused restrictions to be placed on how many bouncers you can bowl and where you can put fielders.

There's been a few statisticians who've tried to come up with formulas to work out how much better a player in each sports stats make them compared to the rest of the people who've played that sport and Bradman always comes out on top of those lists. He was just an incredible player. Even if you hate cricket I'm not sure how he can not be at the top of peoples lists of greatest players to ever play any sport, the career he had is just beyond belief.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01372/Don_Bradman_1372352f.jpg

[rmt]

I believe it because I'm not operating under the totally unreasonable assumption that we're just dropping Nadal as he is today into a different era. Of course if you take a player with skillset X outside of the era where skillset X is favorable and into an era where it isn't as effective, that player won't be as successful. I don't see how this is a meaningful point at all.

Are you trying to tell me that if Nadal had grown up 10, 15, 20 years ago he would have the exact same game as he does today?

By that logic one could just as easily say that Sampras would get owned against prime Nadal and prime Djokovic playing in this era's game.

What I'm saying is that they have currently slowed down the game (surfaces/balls) and that FAVORS Nadal (he is the undisputed King of clay - which is the slowest surface). And yes, if Sampras were playing now, he would be more at a disadvantage than Federer is and would not have won 14 GS titles. And vice versa, if the surfaces were faster, Federer would have won MORE GS titles than he currently has.

[ArbitraryWater]

Nicely done on Bradman^

I'd also love to hear something about 'Babe Ruth' and 'Wayne Gretzky'... familiar names, I'm guessing undisputed GOATs of their sport, but don't know much about them, their stats, records, etc.

[outbreak]

Nicely done on Bradman^

I'd also love to hear something about 'Babe Ruth' and 'Wayne Gretzky'... familiar names, I'm guessing undisputed GOATs of their sport, but don't know much about them, their stats, records, etc.
when bradman toured america babe ruth requested a meeting with him. the guy was huge back in the day. He hated the fame though and the fact he'd get invited to functions and his team mates wouldn't. When he was older he wouldn't go out much because he didn't like people recognising him.

[T_L_P]

Hey TLP, you just made a post here praising how insightful and detailed my OP was.. put it up again :cheers:

:cheers:

-

Someone that deserves a mention here is Snooker great Ronnie O'Sullivan. I think the sport is really unknown in the US, but it's a pretty big deal here and in other places around the world.

Some would rank Stephen Hendry ahead of him because he has more World Championships (7-5), but Ronnie is literally a Snooker genius. Most century breaks, most maximum breaks*, and one hell of a character.

*Video of Ronnie maxing a max break. Pay attention to the shot at 5:41. It may not seem like much, but that takes extraordinary skill. Amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPt9OTHyFjY

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00509/92c6c946-8392-11e3-_509931c.jpg

[Mr Feeny]

10-23 career record against his biggest rival (30% win%)
You're not playing against one Individual, though. You're playing against the field. It's not Federer 's fault that Rafa didn't make it to the later stages of the US open to face Fed while he was in his pomp. It's a similar situation today. Nadal has been knocked out of Wimby before the quarter finals for the past 4 consecutive years by scrubs ranked 100 or higher. Is it Federer ' s fault that Nadal couldn't make it further to meet him on grass at the moment?

It's a ridiculous argument .The moment Djokovic overtakes Rafa in slams, the Nadal fanboys will change their tune and drop the h2h arguments.

[Mr Feeny]

What does this have to with your shitty post?

Who would win in a match between healthy players is speculation, the injury is a fact.


The "injury" happened in the second set, AFTER Wawrinka Wawrinka had thoroughly outplayed Rafa in the first set, won it, and then proceeded to break Rafa in the second.

There's a reason why the entire capacity crowd at Laver arena got up and BOOED Nadal mercilessly as he came back onto the court. If you think that the injury is a "fact" then fair play to you. Nobody else thought so, or thinks so. Wawrinka tore him to shreds and that's about it.

[tpols]

ugh AW.. first bran, now a nadal fan as well ?:facepalm


Makes sense though.. always taking the moonballing, exploitive types over the super skilled and savvy I guess.

[Mr Feeny]

Peace. You may keep your opinion if you think Nadal is GOAT. I assure you MOST of the rest of the world agrees with me that Federer is GOAT. You might want to just check each on Wiki - you will see the difference in their accomplishments.

Exactly right. Nadal fanboys are the Kobe fanboys of tennis. The have no grasp of reality and genuinely believe that the whole world thinks their guy is the best player in history. It's as if they live in a bubble. If you want to believe it, great. Not many people share that view and that's the reason Federer is the consensus GOAT. A 34 year old Federer is number 2 on the planet while a 29 year old reaching the end of his prime Nadal cannot get past cannon fodder these days. If the argument wasn't so laughable, iI'd take it more seriously and present numbers. As it is, it isn't even worth the time.

[ArbitraryWater]

The "injury" happened in the second set, AFTER Wawrinka Wawrinka had thoroughly outplayed Rafa in the first set, won it, and then proceeded to break Rafa in the second.

There's a reason why the entire capacity crowd at Laver arena got up and BOOED Nadal mercilessly as he came back onto the court. If you think that the injury is a "fact" then fair play to you. Nobody else thought so, or thinks so. Wawrinka tore him to shreds and that's about it.

I already said Rafa sustained it after the first..?

Right, nobody else thought it was an injury, yet I see no articles or anything about him faking, its just the rudeness of a crowd, fans, basically.

The big thing about the Rafa/Rog H2H's is that Rafa always bothered him, you could see him owning Fed as a Teen, so the Djoker comparison is mute.

As for you comparing Rafa to Kobe... lmao dude, Rafa is most likely the consensus 2nd best ever, you gotta stop here.


ugh AW.. first bran, now a nadal fan as well ?:facepalm


Makes sense though.. always taking the moonballing, exploitive types over the super skilled and savvy I guess.

Every good tennis player is immensely skilled, in the NBA you can be an all-star and not be quite playoff made against top defenses, nobody in Tennis will win slams and not be skilled, savy, whatever words you try to throw out there.

[Milbuck]

Makes sense though.. always taking the moonballing, exploitive types over the super skilled and savvy I guess.
I never got this criticism. You understand that you're essentially admitting that the exploitive moonballer has wiped his ass with the super skilled and savvy GOAT for over a decade now, right? It only reflects poorly on Fed :oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

I already said Rafa sustained it after the first..?

Right, nobody else thought it was an injury, yet I see no articles or anything about him faking, its just the rudeness of a crowd, fans, basically.

The big thing about the Rafa/Rog H2H's is that Rafa always bothered him, you could see him owning Fed as a Teen, so the Djoker comparison is mute.

As for you comparing Rafa to Kobe... lmao dude, Rafa is most likely the consensus 2nd best ever, you gotta stop here.



Every good tennis player is immensely skilled, in the NBA you can be an all-star and not be quite playoff made against top defenses, nobody in Tennis will win slams and not be skilled, savy, whatever words you try to throw out there.

When the entire crowd is convinced that he's faking an injury for the umpteenth time and are booing him for it, err...yeah....I'd put some credence there. Anyways, like you stated, he was already getting his behind handed to him on a platter before that.

The H2h point is a cute one from Rafa fans. Bothered Fed, sure. But Rafa managed to meet Fed on surfaces that favored him MANY more times than the opposite. When Fed was tearing through everyone on fast surfaces, Rafa was getting spanked by Del Potro 6-2,6-2,6-2. Recently he's made it a habit to lose to the Steve Darcis's and Dustin Brown's of this world and avoid a Federer who's playing at a supremely high level on grass and has been for the past two years.

The Djoker comparison is going to be more than valid soon. He'll end up murdering Nadal in the h2h and should he surpass him in slams, it will leave Rafa fans in knots.

As far as Rafa being the consensus 2nd best player ever. No. Just no. In the eyes of rafa fan, perhaps. But most people still rank Laver and Sampras ahead of him. Having said that, top 4 is not bad. But the overrating of Nadal by his fanboys is uncannily similar to the way Kobe fanboys overrate him on here imo.

[Mr Feeny]

I never got this criticism. You understand that you're essentially admitting that the exploitive moonballer has wiped his ass with the super skilled and savvy GOAT for over a decade now, right? It only reflects poorly on Fed :oldlol:Why would it? One guy has 17 grandslams and 6 WTF and is the consensus GOAT. His rival has 14 GSs, not a single year end title and is breaking down faster than a girl's panties would drop should Sean Connery enter a room. Getting toasted at RG by a Djokovic in 2nd gear is an omen for what's about to come.

[tpols]

I never got this criticism. You understand that you're essentially admitting that the exploitive moonballer has wiped his ass with the super skilled and savvy GOAT for over a decade now, right? It only reflects poorly on Fed :oldlol:

I remember there used to be this one kid on my floor that would beat me in ping pong.. he didn't have good slamming, no spin, or crazy shots but always took the safest shot possible while being able to return most of anything and would just bore you to death with return deep placed shots just waiting for you to fk up on the 90th volley.. still pisses me off.:mad:

[ArbitraryWater]

When the entire crowd is convinced that he's faking an injury for the umpteenth time and are booing him for it, err...yeah....I'd put some credence there. Anyways, like you stated, he was already getting his behind handed to him on a platter before that.

The H2h point is a cute one from Rafa fans. Bothered Fed, sure. But Rafa managed to meet Fed on surfaces that favored him MANY more times than the opposite. When Fed was tearing through everyone on fast surfaces, Rafa was getting spanked by Del Potro 6-2,6-2,6-2. Recently he's made it a habit to lose to the Steve Darcis's and Dustin Brown's of this world and avoid a Federer who's playing at a supremely high level on grass and has been for the past two years.

The Djoker comparison is going to be more than valid soon. He'll end up murdering Nadal in the h2h and should he surpass him in slams, it will leave Rafa fans in knots.

As far as Rafa being the consensus 2nd best player ever. No. Just no. In the eyes of rafa fan, perhaps. But most people still rank Laver and Sampras ahead of him. Having said that, top 4 is not bad. But the overrating of Nadal by his fanboys is uncannily similar to the way Kobe fanboys overrate him on here imo.

Jeezuz, context? Rafa is declining, we can see it... you mention recent matches and the fact that Djoker will surpass him in H2H's while ignoring this very important fact. The Del Potro match? Seriously? :biggums:

You act like Rafa was at full strength... it seems to be bother you that a full strength Rafa is nearly invincible outside of 2011. Too bad thats not nearly enough the case, which helps Roger's GOAT case. No doubt. But lets not get it twisted, both healthy? Rafa has always, always whopped dat ass.

Shit, Djoker is the king of embellishing injuries. Always hated that.

[ArbitraryWater]

I remember there used to be this one kid on my floor that would beat me in ping pong.. he didn't have good slamming, no spin, or crazy shots but always took the safest shot possible while being able to return most of anything and would just bore you to death with return deep placed shots just waiting for you to fk up on the 90th volley.. still pisses me off.:mad:

lol... Ping Pong is right, I don't see that match being much more than

'ping'....'pong'....'ping'...'pong'.....'ping'.... 'tpols misses'

wasn't the fastest match was it? I should drop a video of myself playing, actually.

[Milbuck]

Why would it? One guy has 17 grandslams and 6 WTF and is the consensus GOAT. His rival has 14 GSs, not a single year end title and is breaking down faster than a girl's panties would drop should Sean Connery enter a room. Getting toasted at RG by a Djokovic in 2nd gear is an omen for what's about to come.
This would be relevant if I was talking about all-time rankings. Nadal's resume will likely not match Federer's. I'm just talking player vs player, ability vs ability. And the harsh reality that you seem to refuse to accept is that Federer has been Nadal's bitch for over a decade. Federer can have his GOAT status. But under his loving father/husband image, his smiles and his nice guy persona, he is as insanely competitive as any athlete in history...and the competitor in him will forever be FUMING at the reality that his biggest rival completely owned him :oldlol:

[sd3035]

10-23 career record against his biggest rival (30% win%)

almost like Lebald in the finals

[rmt]

I already said Rafa sustained it after the first..?

Right, nobody else thought it was an injury, yet I see no articles or anything about him faking, its just the rudeness of a crowd, fans, basically.

The big thing about the Rafa/Rog H2H's is that Rafa always bothered him, you could see him owning Fed as a Teen, so the Djoker comparison is mute.

As for you comparing Rafa to Kobe... lmao dude, Rafa is most likely the consensus 2nd best ever, you gotta stop here.

Every good tennis player is immensely skilled, in the NBA you can be an all-star and not be quite playoff made against top defenses, nobody in Tennis will win slams and not be skilled, savy, whatever words you try to throw out there.

The media and newscasters are complicit in protecting the top players - they are, after all - their bread and butter. The fans have no such compunction - and knowledgeable fans will BOO when they see the same weak injury excuses and medical time outs that Nadal uses to disrupt his opponent. And this was vs Wawrinka in his first GS final, not a Djokovic/Federer with lots of fans - but Stan with (relatively) few fans.

I wouldn't say that Nadal is consensus 2nd best - lots of people think Laver or Sampras are 2nd best - especially those who see Nadal's slams as too overwhelmingly clay-oriented (over 64% at ONE GS).

[tpols]

lol... Ping Pong is right, I don't see that match being much more than

'ping'....'pong'....'ping'...'pong'.....'ping'.... 'tpols misses'

wasn't the fastest match was it? I should drop a video of myself playing, actually.

I'm ninja quick bro.

[Mr Feeny]

Jeezuz, context? Rafa is declining, we can see it... you mention recent matches and the fact that Djoker will surpass him in H2H's while ignoring this very important fact. The Del Potro match? Seriously? :biggums:

You act like Rafa was at full strength... it seems to be bother you that a full strength Rafa is nearly invincible outside of 2011. Too bad thats not nearly enough the case, which helps Roger's GOAT case. No doubt. But lets not get it twisted, both healthy? Rafa has always, always whopped dat ass.

Shit, Djoker is the king of embellishing injuries. Always hated that.

:oldlol: whatever helps you sleep at night, buddy. "When healthy":oldlol: Rafa is always "injured" when he gets his butt kicked isn't he? Just laughable. You're proving what I said earlier about Nadal fans being the most deluded in tennis :oldlol:
Federer has 17 GSs and 6YECs and 302 weeks at number 1. I don't know what planet you guys are on! Enjoy the h2h. #SinkingFasterThanAShip #BetterHopeHeDontMeetDarcis

[ArbitraryWater]

The media and newscasters are complicit in protecting the top players - they are, after all - their bread and butter. The fans have no such compunction - and knowledgeable fans will BOO when they see the same weak injury excuses and medical time outs that Nadal uses to disrupt his opponent. And this was vs Wawrinka in his first GS final, not a Djokovic/Federer with lots of fans - but Stan with (relatively) few fans.

I wouldn't say that Nadal is consensus 2nd best - lots of people think Laver or Sampras are 2nd best - especially those who see Nadal's slams as too overwhelmingly clay-oriented (over 64% at ONE GS).

:lol

dude, I remember it, the commentator adressed the fans, later himself saying 'guess they found out he's truly injured'. Again, you have ignored this

"I'm sure he decided to stop playing in the final of a Grand Slam after losing the first set... he just DECIDED to limp around the court, miss services, can't get to returns and normal ground strokes.... just **** it, screw this match, I lost the first set, let me give this man this one for free.


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm"


:oldlol: whatever helps you sleep at night, buddy. "When healthy":oldlol: Rafa is always "injured" when he gets his butt kicked isn't he? Just laughable. You're proving what I said earlier about Nadal fans being the most deluded in tennis :oldlol:
Federer has 17 GSs and 6YECs and 302 weeks at number 1. I don't know what planet you guys are on! Enjoy the h2h. #SinkingFasterThanAShip #BetterHopeHeDontMeetDarcis

Yep, usually when he loses it's coming right off an injury, right infront of one, 2011 v.s. Djokovic, or in the latter years where his limited body is extra limited on grass. Look, Fed's achievements are good enough, they don't need you denying that Rafa is hurt alot.

[Milbuck]

Also, I love how we bring up the "crowd's reaction" as the evidence to suggest that he faked the injury....and yet we completely ignore the fact that when he actually returned to the court and started serving 70-80 mph first serves everyone was like "oh shit, this might not be fake", and as he showed a little bit of fight a ton of the boos turned into cheers...and then they cheered for him during the trophy ceremony.

The narrative that he faked that injury is retarded Federer (and Djokovic) fanboy created nonsense. Anyone with a brain who watched the entirety of that match could see he was clearly hurt. Wawrinka deserved that trophy because he would've beaten Rafa with or without the injury but just lol at this idea that one of the greatest competitors the sport has ever seen would deliberately throw a match just to have an excuse.

[Mr Feeny]

This would be relevant if I was talking about all-time rankings. Nadal's resume will likely not match Federer's. I'm just talking player vs player, ability vs ability. And the harsh reality that you seem to refuse to accept is that Federer has been Nadal's bitch for over a decade. Federer can have his GOAT status. But under his loving father/husband image, his smiles and his nice guy persona, he is as insanely competitive as any athlete in history...and the competitor in him will forever be FUMING at the reality that his biggest rival completely owned him :oldlol:


Like I said, you guys are too cute. Living in a bubble. The Kobe stans of tennis. I don't think Federer cares about some H2h:oldlol:
He cares about 17, 6, 302.

On the other hand, Steve Darcis and Dustin Brown fans will be happy that Nadal has been their bitch. They can keep that. You Nadal stans can enjoy a h2h and being left in Federer ' s shade and knowing the your hero simply cannot catch the GOAT. Peace:rockon:

[rmt]

This would be relevant if I was talking about all-time rankings. Nadal's resume will likely not match Federer's. I'm just talking player vs player, ability vs ability. And the harsh reality that you seem to refuse to accept is that Federer has been Nadal's bitch for over a decade. Federer can have his GOAT status. But under his loving father/husband image, his smiles and his nice guy persona, he is as insanely competitive as any athlete in history...and the competitor in him will forever be FUMING at the reality that his biggest rival completely owned him :oldlol:

I guess Nadal must be fuming that Dustin Brown has a 2-0 head-to-head on him but context is important and those 2 wins were on a fast surface. The bottom line is that every man in tennis history would trade his career for Federer's career and Federer would not trade his career for any one else's.

[Mr Feeny]

Yep, usually when he loses it's coming right off an injury, right infront of one, 2011 v.s. Djokovic, or in the latter years where his limited body is extra limited on grass. Look, Fed's achievements are good enough, they don't need you denying that Rafa is hurt alot.
It's scary to think that you actually believe this junk:oldlol:
Kobestan#987: "refs hate Kobe. Conspiracy I tell you! Trying to crown fake king lesweep. 81! 81! Refs screwed Kobe on that call. Screwed Lakers"

NadalStan "Rafa lost? I didn't watch the match? He must have been injured, no? Si. He is injured. Ok. P.S. h2h h2h h2h"

I would have thought that you of all people would be a little more level headed than this. You surely see who you sound like over here, don't you?

[Mr Feeny]

I guess Nadal must be fuming that Dustin Brown has a 2-0 head-to-head on him but context is important and those 2 wins were on a fast surface. The bottom line is that every man in tennis history would trade his career for Federer's career and Federer would not trade his career for any one else's.I just told him the exact same thing. Shame that Nadal is Dustin Brown's bitch. Who in the blue hell is Dustin Brown???

[ArbitraryWater]

I guess Nadal must be fuming that Dustin Brown has a 2-0 head-to-head on him but context is important and those 2 wins were on a fast surface. The bottom line is that every man in tennis history would trade his career for Federer's career and Federer would not trade his career for any one else's.

Another failed comparison

Not many would want to have a career of getting owned by their arch rival, by the other dominator of the tennis world.

The only reason is you'd take Fed is because of health, barring injuries Rafa would likely have surpassed his GS count, which makes it an interesting comparison.

[Milbuck]

Like I said, you guys are too cute. Living in a bubble. The Kobe stans of tennis. I don't think Federer cares about some H2h:oldlol:
He cares about 17, 6, 302.

On the other hand, Steve Darcis and Dustin Brown fans will be happy that Nadal has been their bitch. They can keep that. You Nadal stans can enjoy a h2h and being left in Federer ' s shade and knowing the your hero simply cannot catch the GOAT. Peace:rockon:
You are so salty that your boy just couldn't crack the Nadal puzzle :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

Feeny, how many times you gonna peace yourself outta this thread?

I mean, you realize most of Rafa's injuries can be factually backed up/found on the internet?

Or are those reports faked too? He also used doping, amirite?

[Mr Feeny]

Another failed comparison

Not many would want to have a career of getting owned by their arch rival, by the other dominator of the tennis world.

The only reason is you'd take Fed is because of health, barring injuries Rafa would likely have surpassed his GS count, which makes it an interesting comparison.

Err....wrong again. People would take Federer because he is a better player. That's why he has more Grandslams than Rafa can ever hope to win. Along with 6 WTFs to Nadal's zero. And 302 weeks at number 1. Federer doesn't care about any h2hs with anyone. He cares about being the best ever. He is.

Rafa has to deal with that, and his fans have to deal with that

As far as the "injuries" go, bore us some more.

[sd3035]

Why would it? One guy has 17 grandslams and 6 WTF and is the consensus GOAT. His rival has 14 GSs, not a single year end title and is breaking down faster than a girl's panties would drop should Sean Connery enter a room. Getting toasted at RG by a Djokovic in 2nd gear is an omen for what's about to come.

lol I think it's time to update that, the only thing dropping will be in Mr Connery's adult diaper

[Mr Feeny]

Feeny, how many times you gonna peace yourself outta this thread?

I mean, you realize most of Rafa's injuries can be factually backed up/found on the internet?

Or are those reports faked too? He also used doping, amirite?

Factually? Err...no. you have Toni Rafa Nadal faking his latest injuries and reporters doing their jobs and reporting what they're told. The majority of tennis fans on this planet (whether they be Djoker fans, Murray fans, Fed fans or Dustin Brown fans) think that Rafa is a cheat and makes up injuries. It's as simple as that. If you wish to believe every bit of junk that comes out of his mouth, that's great.

[Milbuck]

Only Federer fanboys will try to convince you that somehow losing to your biggest rival 70% of the time, in a 23 match near-12 year sample size....somehow makes you a better player :oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

You are so salty that your boy just couldn't crack the Nadal puzzle :oldlol:

Let's see Nadal crack the Dustin Brown puzzle:eek: oops, can't beat a pub player, can he?

[Milbuck]

Let's see Nadal crack the Dustin Brown puzzle:eek: oops, can't beat a pub player, can he?
You can bring up whatever dumb side argument you want but it doesn't change the fact that Nadal has shat on Federer for 11 years now :oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

Only Federer fanboys will try to convince you that somehow losing to your biggest rival 70% of the time, in a 23 match near-12 year sample size....somehow makes you a better player :oldlol:

You seem shook? He could be 1-77 in the H2h for all I care.
The bottom line is: 17 grandslams, 6 WTFs and 302 weeks #1

Doth you dare to continue?

[KobesFinger]

I think Messi is the best footballer of all time.

- Barcelona's top scorer all time (412 goals in 482 apps)
- La Liga's top scorer all time (286 goals in 315 apps)
- Most goals in one La Liga season (50 in 37 apps)
- UEFA Champions League top scorer all time (77 goals in 99 apps)
- Most goals in one calender year (91 in 2012)
- Most Ballon D'Or awards (4)

And he's 28

[Mr Feeny]

You can bring up whatever dumb side argument you want but it doesn't change the fact that Nadal has shat on Federer for 11 years now :oldlol:

Great! And still has no hope of reaching him:lol

[Milbuck]

You seem shook? He could be 1-77 in the H2h for all I care.
The bottom line is: 17 grandslams, 6 WTFs and 302 weeks #1

Doth you dare to continue?
17 slams and a career of getting pissed on by his biggest rival. GOAT :applause:

[Mr Feeny]

I think Messi is the best footballer of all time.

- Barcelona's top scorer all time (412 goals in 482 apps)
- La Liga's top scorer all time (286 goals in 315 apps)
- Most goals in one La Liga season (50 in 37 apps)
- UEFA Champions League top scorer all time (77 goals in 99 apps)
- Most goals in one calender year (91 in 2012)
- Most Ballon D'Or awards (4)

Also most goals in a season 73 goals in 2011-2012
Most assists in a season in European top league :29 (2012) tied with Xavi.
Most goals in clasicos.
Most assists in clasicos.
(Last two are just fun trivia)

[Mr Feeny]

17 slams and a career of getting pissed on by his biggest rival. GOAT :applause:glad you know he's the GOAT!

[Milbuck]

Solid discussion in this thread. Glad it's been acknowledged that Nadal is a better player than Federer as proven by his complete domination of him over the course of their careers.

[outbreak]

17 slams and a career of getting pissed on by his biggest rival. GOAT :applause:
neither of them are as dominant as Bradman though so it's a moot point. :rockon:

[Mr Feeny]

Solid discussion in this thread. Glad it's been acknowledged that Nadal is a better player than Federer as proven by his complete domination of him over the course of their careers.

Awww that's adorable :lol

[KobesFinger]

Also most goals in a season 73 goals in 2011-2012
Most assists in a season in European top league :29 (2012) tied with Xavi.
Most goals in clasicos.
Most assists in clasicos.
(Last two are just fun trivia)

I think you could play him anywhere from CM to CF and he'd be the best in the world at it

[Mr Feeny]

neither of them are as dominant as Bradman though so it's a moot point. :rockon:Ofcourse Nadal isn't. He isn't even as dominant as Sampras. Why would you think he's worthy of being compared to greats of other sports when he's nowhere near GOAT status in his own sport tbf

[Milbuck]

neither of them are as dominant as Bradman though so it's a moot point. :rockon:
Agreed. Bradman was a true GOAT-caliber player. None of this "oh, let me go ahead and lose 70% of the time against my biggest rival" stuff. REAL DOMINANCE.

[Mr Feeny]

I think you could play him anywhere from CM to CF and he'd be the best in the world at it

Agreed. He's a genius. He's both the best scorer on the planet AND the best playmaker on the planet. Can play as a false 9, as a 10, on the right wing. Almost literally anywhere. We're watching a true great and it's best we don't take him for granted. You're not gonna see anything like him for the next few decades. His game is devestatingly effective while being truly besutiful to watch. Supreme talent.

[Mr Feeny]

Agreed. Bradman was a true GOAT-caliber player. None of this "oh, let me go ahead and lose 70% of the time against my biggest rival" stuff. REAL DOMINANCE.

Tbf the more you put down Fed, the worse Rafa looks:oldlol:

[Milbuck]

Tbf the more you put down Fed, the worse Rafa looks:oldlol:
The only one putting down Fed is Rafa, his whole career :yaohappy:

[Mr Feeny]

The only one putting down Fed is Rafa, his whole career :yaohappy:

Yet he's firmly in Fed's shade. 17 :lebronamazed:

[Milbuck]

Yet he's firmly in Fed's shade. 17 :lebronamazed:
You are so angry right now :oldlol:

[outbreak]

Agreed. Bradman was a true GOAT-caliber player. None of this "oh, let me go ahead and lose 70% of the time against my biggest rival" stuff. REAL DOMINANCE.
I don't follow tennis but my girlfriend does, Fedderer is her favourite player but whenever we watch him he seems to lose.

[Mr Feeny]

You are so angry right now :oldlol:

Awww. Must be. Todally. Absolutely. Definitely. Yup. Toatz.

You're a very......weird type of troll? Usually people on here make comments to rile people up. Ingenuity sets the top ones apart from the rest. You......don't seem to have much to strike with? You seem really flustered and we can imagine you frantically typing away at your keyboard?

Just work on your skill a little. If you decide that's what you want to be - a troll - then be good at it. Don't make yourself a laughing stock and get yourself all wound up while not making a coherent argument:biggums:
Chillax my brother:cheers: go put on a Dustin Brown match....

[Milbuck]

Awww. Must be. Todally. Absolutely. Definitely. Yup. Toatz.

You're a very......weird type of troll? Usually people on here make comments to rile people up. Ingenuity sets the top ones apart from the rest. You......don't seem to have much to strike with? You seem really flustered and we can imagine you frantically typing away at your keyboard?

Just work on your skill a little. If you decide that's what you want to be - a troll - then be good at it. Don't make yourself a laughing stock and get yourself all wound up while not making a coherent argument:biggums:
Chillax my brother:cheers: go put on a Dustin Brown match....
Thanks for typing all that out for me. Didn't read any of it, but I'll leave you with this: Rafa owns Roger.

Gotta run, talk later :cheers:

[outbreak]

Awww. Must be. Todally. Absolutely. Definitely. Yup. Toatz.

You're a very......weird type of troll? Usually people on here make comments to rile people up. Ingenuity sets the top ones apart from the rest. You......don't seem to have much to strike with? You seem really flustered and we can imagine you frantically typing away at your keyboard?

Just work on your skill a little. If you decide that's what you want to be - a troll - then be good at it. Don't make yourself a laughing stock and get yourself all wound up while not making a coherent argument:biggums:
Chillax my brother:cheers: go put on a Dustin Brown match....

Milbuck isn't a troll....

[Mr Feeny]

Thanks for typing all that out for me. Didn't read any of it, but I'll leave you with this: Rafa owns Roger.

Gotta run, talk later :cheers:

And Dustin Brown owns Rafa. Ttyl ol' buddy ol' chap.

17:rockon:

[Mr Feeny]

Milbuck isn't a troll....

Hi millbuck:rolleyes:

[rmt]

Another failed comparison

Not many would want to have a career of getting owned by their arch rival, by the other dominator of the tennis world.

The only reason is you'd take Fed is because of health, barring injuries Rafa would likely have surpassed his GS count, which makes it an interesting comparison.

No, I'd take Federer because he's a better tennis player. He's won the most Grand Slams ever in an era when the surfaces do not favor him. The way I judge a player is would he be dominant in any era, on any surface, with any racquet, with any string (not the super duper stuff they have now)? Federer would. IMO, Nadal, back in the day, would not win anything but French Opens with a wooden racquet on fast, low-bouncing grass - his game is just not suited to faster surfaces.

And regardless of what anyone says, SURFACE matters a great deal or the example I gave of Sampras, Djokovic, McEnroe, Connors, Edberg and Becker not winning one French Open wouldn't happen.

Why play the injury excuse? There's a reason Nadal has so many injuries and it's because of the way he plays. Just the same way that Federer is almost never injured and has never retired from a match - the way he plays is easy on the body - and factors into his longevity. Would you say you'd take xxx because of health, barring injuries, Grant Hill would have won more. Hey, injuries are part of the game and affects what you win and how you're ranked.

[ArbitraryWater]

Agreed. Bradman was a true GOAT-caliber player. None of this "oh, let me go ahead and lose 70% of the time against my biggest rival" stuff. REAL DOMINANCE.

:roll: