Say Dennis Rodman never joined the Bulls...

[Smook A.]

How many rings would Jordan & Pippen have retired with? 3? ,,,4? ...5? :confusedshrug:

[sdot_thadon]

How many rings would Jordan & Pippen have retired with? 3? ,,,4? ...5? :confusedshrug:
3 assuming they don't get anyone equal or better in his place.

[guy]

6. They wouldn't have won 70 and wouldn't be as good. But a physical PF, which wouldn't have been too hard to find, would've been enough.

[3ball]

Rodman joined the Bulls as a 35-year old - his all-star and dpoy days were long gone.

Rodman averaged 5/11 on 41% in the playoffs for his entire run with the Bulls (1996-1998).. This 5/11 included 3/8 for the entire 1997 playoffs and 1998 Finals.

"B-b-b-but what would the Bulls do without Rodman's defense and intangibles"

Answer: the same thing they did from 1991-1993, when they 3-peated with Horace Grant's 11/8 from 1991-1993, who didn't have half the intangibles and played completely differently.
.

[JT123]

Only 3 rings for MJ

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Probably 5.

They may or may not win the '96 title depending on Worm's replacement.

After Mike, I thought Rodman was arguably the best player in that Seattle series. GOAT level rebounding and defense.

[ClipperRevival]

How many rings would Jordan & Pippen have retired with? 3? ,,,4? ...5? :confusedshrug:

They 3 peated with Grant at PF. With Rodman, they went to historical heights. So I think as long as they get a 4 comparable to at least Grant's standards, there is a good chance they 3 peat again. If not 3 peat, maybe 2 peat and stopping at 1997 instead of 1998 due to aging. Fact is, Rodman was the 3rd wheel and 3rd wheel's are easier to replace. Also, it's very possible Kukoc could've been that 3rd wheel. The D would've suffered but their O might've been more potent.

[3ball]

Probably 5.

They may or may not win the '96 title depending on Worm's replacement.

After Mike, I thought Rodman was arguably the best player in that Seattle series. GOAT level rebounding and defense.
All 6.

They 3-peated with Horace Grant's 11/8 from 1991-1993, who didn't have half the intangibles as Rodman and played completely differently.

The 1991-1993 three-peat proved that all the Bulls needed was an 11/8 guy who plays decent defense.

[Legends66NBA7]

Depends on his replacement. I think the Bulls would still win with say, Anthony Mason, in Rodman's place.

[TheMan]

Impossible to say. Not to undervalue Rodman's role in those title runs but you could put a Charles Oakley or a PJ Brown and I think they could've done a decent enough job to get the job done. Maybe the rest of the team would have to help out more on the boards, maybe the Bulls would need to get another extra big to add toughness inside, who knows. Rodman was pretty much fortunate the Bulls traded for him, the Spurs were sick of him and interest in him from the rest of the NBA was pretty low at that point.

[JT123]

Impossible to say. Not to undervalue Rodman's role in those title runs but you could put a Charles Oakley or a PJ Brown and I think they could've done a decent enough job to get the job done. Maybe the rest of the team would have to help out more on the boards, maybe the Bulls would need to get another extra big to add toughness inside, who knows. Rodman was pretty much fortunate the Bulls traded for him, the Spurs were sick of him and interest in him from the rest of the NBA was pretty low at that point.
:facepalm The pathetic stanning never stops. I'm sure the GOAT rebounder and future Hall of Famer could be replaced by PJ Brown. :rolleyes:

[guy]

Impossible to say. Not to undervalue Rodman's role in those title runs but you could put a Charles Oakley or a PJ Brown and I think they could've done a decent enough job to get the job done. Maybe the rest of the team would have to help out more on the boards, maybe the Bulls would need to get another extra big to add toughness inside, who knows. Rodman was pretty much fortunate the Bulls traded for him, the Spurs were sick of him and interest in him from the rest of the NBA was pretty low at that point.

Right. He was traded for Will Perdue :oldlol: the Bulls were the only team who was comfortable enough with their leadership to deal with Rodman. Not sure how that makes Jordan and Pippen the really fortunate ones.

They could've also gotten a center. And a guy like Kukoc probably could've been traded to snatch up someone good enough. For example, the Knicks had numerous good PFs and probably could've afforded to give up one for Kukoc who could've been their starting SF.

[Hey Yo]

Rodman joined the Bulls as a 35-year old - his all-star and dpoy days were long gone.

Rodman averaged 5/11 on 41% in the playoffs for his entire run with the Bulls (1996-1998).. This 5/11 included 3/8 for the entire 1997 playoffs and 1998 Finals.

"B-b-b-but what would the Bulls do without Rodman's defense and intangibles"

Answer: the same thing they did from 1991-1993, when they 3-peated with Horace Grant's 11/8 from 1991-1993, who didn't have half the intangibles and played completely differently.
.
All defense in 95-96

Rebounding champ 96,97,98

[TheMan]

:facepalm The pathetic stanning never stops. I'm sure the GOAT rebounder and future Hall of Famer could be replaced by PJ Brown. :rolleyes:
OTOH, giving credit to any Bull player except Mike for the second threepeat is common among you LeStans. Obvious agenda is obvious.

[3ball]

All defense in 95-96

Rebounding champ 96,97,98
That's fine... His all-star and dpoy days were still LONG GONE

And his playoff numbers were pedestrian - 35-year old Rodman averaged 5/11 on 41% in the playoffs for his entire run with the Bulls (1996-1998)..

This 5/11 included 3/8 for the entire 1997 playoffs and 1998 Finals.

Sure, he played good D and all.... but.... All the Bulls needed to win rings was an 11/8 guy that played decent D (Horace).

[97 bulls]

OTOH, giving credit to any Bull player except Mike for the second threepeat is common among you LeStans. Obvious agenda is obvious.
Correct me if im wrong, but he seemed to be giving credit to Rodman.

[JT123]

OTOH, giving credit to any Bull player except Mike for the second threepeat is common among you LeStans. Obvious agenda is obvious.
You're right, Rodman could have been replaced by any serviceable PF and MJ still would have 3 peated.
Hell replace Bosh with Reggie Evans and Lebron still wins back to back. Third options are easily replaceable. Plus Evans would have given the Heat a toughness that Bosh was never able to bring to the table.

[97 bulls]

They could've won with a lesser player. But definitely not 70 or 69.

[TheMan]

They could've won with a lesser player. But definitely not 70 or 69.
That's what I'm trying to say

[TheMan]

You're right, Rodman could have been replaced by any serviceable PF and MJ still would have 3 peated.
Hell replace Bosh with Reggie Evans and Lebron still wins back to back. Third options are easily replaceable. Plus Evans would have given the Heat a toughness that Bosh was never able to bring to the table.
You won't get an argument from me...the Heat won back to back because they got sold contributions from everyone but without LeBron, they aren't winning back to back titles...same with the Bulls and MJ in all their 6 chips :confusedshrug:

[guy]

You're right, Rodman could have been replaced by any serviceable PF and MJ still would have 3 peated.
Hell replace Bosh with Reggie Evans and Lebron still wins back to back. Third options are easily replaceable. Plus Evans would have given the Heat a toughness that Bosh was never able to bring to the table.

You might be right. But good chance Lebron also probably wouldn't feel that was enough for him to win and give up/play passive/drag down the confidence of his team as a result. He's been prone to do that in the past.

[Hey Yo]

That's fine... His all-star and dpoy days were still LONG GONE

And his playoff numbers were pedestrian - 35-year old Rodman averaged 5/11 on 41% in the playoffs for his entire run with the Bulls (1996-1998)..

This 5/11 included 3/8 for the entire 1997 playoffs and 1998 Finals.

Sure, he played good D and all.... but.... All the Bulls needed to win rings was an 11/8 guy that played decent D (Horace).
The Bulls were more of a threat/used it more from 3pt land during their second 3-peat. That's why a younger Horace Grant worked very well for the first 3-peat. He was getting more looks down low to score and getting to the line more often.

Being more of a threat from 3pt land, Rodman wasn't needed to get fed down low for scoring. All he had to do was rebound and look for put-backs.

[Hey Yo]

You might be right. But good chance Lebron also probably wouldn't feel that was enough for him to win and give up/play passive/drag down the confidence of his team as a result. He's been prone to do that in the past.
You mean like he did this past postseason with the perfect opportunity to do so?

[guy]

You mean like he did this past postseason with the perfect opportunity to do so?

I didn't say he always does that. I said there's a good chance.

Another thing is it's not a great comparison. Bosh does a lot of different things that Evans doesn't do, and the Heat were a lot closer to losing in 13 then the Bulls ever were.

[Legends66NBA7]

They could've won with a lesser player. But definitely not 70 or 69.

Rodman missed 18 games during the 72 win team and 27 games during the 69 win team. I think they still win thay many if a good replacement player was selected. Oakley and Mason would do, especially in the playoffs.

The 98 team though, they definitely needed Rodman for all 80 games with Pippen missing so much time.

[Hey Yo]

I didn't say he always does that. I said there's a good chance.

Another thing is it's not a great comparison. Bosh does a lot of different things that Evans doesn't do, and the Heat were a lot closer to losing in 13 then the Bulls ever were.
But why say there's a good chance when the best example could have came 2mos. ago.?

What so-called "past times" are you referring to?

[Fallen Angel]

Bulls would finish with 4. I could see them beating Orlando and Seattle in 1996, but in 1997 and 1998 then would lose to the Utah Jazz in the NBA Finals.

People who try and underrate Dennis Rodman's impact to the game have never watched him and only focus on his box score stats. Dennis Rodman was a world class irritant that disrupted Shaq during the 1996 Eastern Conference Playoffs and Karl Malone in the NBA Finals to the point where they both fell to the Bulls.

Bringing up stats doesn't do credit to the player that Dennis Rodman was. Without him the Bulls' frontcourt would be worthless, guys like Karl Malone would feast on them.

[guy]

But why say there's a good chance when the best example could have came 2mos. ago.?

What so-called "past times" are you referring to?

2010, 2011 for example. We aren't talking about 2015, we are talking about his time with the Heat, so why would 2 months be the best example?

[guy]

Rodman missed 18 games during the 72 win team and 27 games during the 69 win team. I think they still win thay many if a good replacement player was selected. Oakley and Mason would do, especially in the playoffs.

The 98 team though, they definitely needed Rodman for all 80 games with Pippen missing so much time.

Good point. Also, alot of people don't seem to remember how much of a distraction Rodman was. He had multiple multiple game suspensions, he was always in the headlines for reasons besides basketball, shit he literally wrestled for WCW in the middle of the 98 Finals. There was a time in 97 when some people speculated they would be better off without him and a lot of people thought he wouldn't be back in 98. Sure, there were times when the Bulls fed off his eccentric energy, but there were also times the Bulls might've been better off with a more stable but less talented player PF in his place. It didn't really matter much cause the Bulls had the leadership to handle it either way. But let's not act like every great team would've been able to deal with that. It really was no surprise that after the Bulls, his last few NBA stints ended abruptly.

[Hey Yo]

2010, 2011 for example. We aren't talking about 2015, we are talking about his time with the Heat, so why would 2 months be the best example?
2010.... when he was hurt in game 5 but yet put up 27-19-10 in must win game 6?

2011....when it was obviously agreed (right before the Finals) that Wade would be the first option and James would lay back to let Wade shine........and it completely backfired in their face.

[guy]

2010.... when he was hurt in game 5 but yet put up 27-19-10 in must win game 6?

2011....when it was obviously agreed (right before the Finals) that Wade would be the first option and James would lay back to let Wade shine........and it completely backfired in their face?

Wow the excuses.:oldlol: when was he injured in game 5? That game 6 was terrible regardless of the stats and barely anyone at the time was saying he had a good game. 2011 :oldlol:

[Real14]

Still have more rings then bronnatella

[Hey Yo]

Wow the excuses.:oldlol: when was he injured in game 5? That game 6 was terrible regardless of the stats and barely anyone at the time was saying he had a good game. 2011 :oldlol:
dumb

[Indian guy]

Any serviceable PF who could rebound/defend would do. There's nothing more overblown than Rodman's impact on the 2nd 3peat team. He missed 47 games from 96-98 and Bulls went 38-9 without him. They actually had some excellent depth at the 4 - Kukoc, Caffey, Brian Williams - all darn solid players. And at the end of the day, it's really not that hard to replace a hustle player. It's far harder to make-up for losing a skilled offensive player than someone who just plays hard. And that 2nd 3peat team was a really BIG team. Rebounding was never going to be an issue for them. Come '98 playoffs Rodman wasn't even starting half the games - Kukoc was, and he could neither defend nor rebound, but that says everything about how replaceable Bulls considered Rodman's hustle.

[chazzy]

2011....when it was obviously agreed (right before the Finals) that Wade would be the first option and James would lay back to let Wade shine........and it completely backfired in their face.
uggghhhh

[Droid101]

2011....when it was obviously agreed (right before the Finals) that Wade would be the first option and James would lay back to let Wade shine........and it completely backfired in their face.


:roll:

[sdot_thadon]

So we're talking about replacing 32 to 35 minutes of Rodman with caffey, williams, salley, Simpkins and spot minutes from Kukoc? They still 3peat? Riiiight. Kukoc was a better offensive option but he'd get eaten alive by most good powerforwards on the other end. Those guys would also have to contribute to guarding and do spot treatment on centers too, Dennis did that as well. The last 3peat bulls were successful because of elite offense AND defense. You lose Dennis and you lose a central cog of that defense. Him and scottie's ability to guard larger positions regularly helped their insane versatility and, was a huge advantage for Phil those last 3 years.

[Fallen Angel]

Any serviceable PF who could rebound/defend would do.
Name one PF that can rebound in the double digits and defend all 5 positions. Just one.


There's nothing more overblown than Rodman's impact on the 2nd 3peat team. He missed 47 games from 96-98 and Bulls went 38-9 without him. They actually had some excellent depth at the 4 - Kukoc, Caffey, Brian Williams - all darn solid players. And at the end of the day, it's really not that hard to replace a hustle player. It's far harder to make-up for losing a skilled offensive player than someone who just plays hard. And that 2nd 3peat team was a really BIG team. Rebounding was never going to be an issue for them. Come '98 playoffs Rodman wasn't even starting half the games - Kukoc was, and he could neither defend nor rebound, but that says everything about how replaceable Bulls considered Rodman's hustle.

Shaquille O'Neal vs. The 1996 Chicago Bulls Frontcourt and Dennis Rodman:

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCX2bEBPABQ
Thread: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=380216

The same about the video and thread can be said about what Dennis Rodman did to Karl Malone in the playoffs. Chicago doesn't beat either of them without Rodman.

[Hey Yo]

uggghhhh
What happened the following 2 seasons when Wade declared publicly(summer of 2011) it was James' team now?

[guy]

Name one PF that can rebound in the double digits and defend all 5 positions. Just one.



Shaquille O'Neal vs. The 1996 Chicago Bulls Frontcourt and Dennis Rodman:

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCX2bEBPABQ
Thread: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=380216

The same about the video and thread can be said about what Dennis Rodman did to Karl Malone in the playoffs. Chicago doesn't beat either of them without Rodman.

Rodman wasn't really defending all 5 positions though. I'm not sure if he was even capable at that point and even if he was, it was irrelevant with Jordan, Pippen, and Harper on the team.

[Indian guy]

Name one PF that can rebound in the double digits and defend all 5 positions. Just one.

Dude, 96-98 Rodman was 35-37 years old and could defend no more than 2 positions.


Shaquille O'Neal vs. The 1996 Chicago Bulls Frontcourt and Dennis Rodman:

Shaq averaged 27/11/4 on 64% shooting in the '96 ECF. I'd say he did alright. Reason why Orlando lost that series was because how awful everybody was outside of Shaq/Penny, and the MVP of the '95 match-up, Horace Grant, only played 1 game because of injuries.


The same about the video and thread can be said about what Dennis Rodman did to Karl Malone in the playoffs. Chicago doesn't beat either of them without Rodman.

Ummm, this is a myth. Malone being a perennial choke-artist and playoff underachiever aside, Longley actually did a better job on him than Rodman for much of the '97 and '98 Finals. Rodman also came off the bench in all 6 games of the '98 Finals.

[Fallen Angel]

Rodman wasn't really defending all 5 positions though. I'm not sure if he was even capable at that point and even if he was, it was irrelevant with Jordan, Pippen, and Harper on the team.
So Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, and Ron Harper all getting bounced out the 1995 Playoffs in the second round to the Orlando Magic is irrelevant to you?

The Magic got better the following season and the main improvement with the Bulls the next season was the acquisition of Dennis Rodman. For the Bulls to SWEEP the team that knocked them out the playoffs the prior year is something. Horace Grant's injury isn't that big of a part of reason for the sweep of a team that made the NBA Finals a year ago, Dennis Rodman was the difference with his defense, rebounding, hustle, and the mental approach to the game.

[Fallen Angel]

Since you chose not to read the thread or even watch the video here I'll just repost it here:


• 1996 NBA Playoffs (SHAQUILLE O'NEAL vs. DENNIS RODMAN)

• Game 1 Conference Finals: The Bulls allowed Shaq to feast on Luc Longley at first. But when guarded by Rodman, Shaq scored only 2 points on 1/4 (not including a very short hook shot that was bailed out by an illegal defense call) and committed 2 turnovers while Rodman also forced a team turnover on the Magic from his pick and roll defense on O'Neal. In the stretch that Rodman guarded Shaq the Chicago Bulls pulled out to a comfortable 20+ point lead. Afterwards, Shaq was free to pad his stats against Bill Wennington and John Salley, very similar to what Bill Russell and Willis Reed did with the great Wilt Chamberlain.
• Game 2 Conference Finals: Once again, Shaq was free to abuse Luc Longley and Bill Wennington. At first, Shaq started 2/3 against Rodman in the 1st quarter. That would be the last time he'd score a field goal on Dennis Rodman the rest of the playoffs. On the remaining possessions Rodman guarded O'Neal, Shaq went 0/2 and committed 2 turnovers while forcing another Magic turnover because of his ball denial on Shaq. Once again, the stretch in which Rodman locked down Shaq was crucial as it was the major reason the Bulls erased the Magic's 18 point 3rd quarter lead. The Bulls went on to win this game.
• Game 3 Conference Finals: Shaq had an off night so Rodman only guarded him 1 possession. On the sole possession Shaq was guarded by Dennis he was forced to pass out the post. The Magic lost this game as well.
• Game 4 Conference Finals: Shaq scored from 3 free throws against Dennis Rodman with no field goals attempted. The rest of his points came when Rodman was not guarding him as Shaq feasted on Chicago's weaker defenders once again. When Rodman was guarding first O'Neal he forced the Magic into a team turnover. Dennis then came off of Shaq and O'Neal then went back to work against the Bulls' weaker defenders. On Dennis Rodman's second defensive stretch on Shaquille O'Neal he didn't score a point and committed 1 turnover while forced 3 addition team turnovers on the Magic by his defense on Shaq. Yet again, the Bulls went on another scoring run with Rodman disrupting Shaq to close the game and close the series as the Chicago Bulls swept the Orlando Magic out the playoffs and ran Shaquille O'Neal all the way back to Los Angeles months later.

[smoovegittar]

Let's not forget that Dennis had an uncanny knack for getting into opponent's heads - Phil's kind of player.

[guy]

So Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, and Ron Harper all getting bounced out the 1995 Playoffs in the second round to the Orlando Magic is irrelevant to you?

The Magic got better the following season and the main improvement with the Bulls the next season was the acquisition of Dennis Rodman. For the Bulls to SWEEP the team that knocked them out the playoffs the prior year is something. Horace Grant's injury isn't that big of a part of reason for the sweep of a team that made the NBA Finals a year ago, Dennis Rodman was the difference with his defense, rebounding, hustle, and the mental approach to the game.

That is irrelevant. What is relevant is that they had a PF that can rebound and defend. That's not exclusive to Rodman. And the fact that could or couldn't defend positions didn't matter. Rodman wasn't replacing Horace Grant, he was replacing Toni Kukoc at PF. That makes a huge difference .What's also relevant is Jordan was in better game shape and didn't get fatigued as easily.

[Indian guy]

Since you chose not to read the thread or even watch the video here I'll just repost it here:

All that write-up proved is Rodman barely guarded Shaq in the series. And the Bulls still swept the Magic.

[Fallen Angel]

All that write-up proved is Rodman barely guarded Shaq in the series. And the Bulls still swept the Magic.
It proves that Rodman did guard Shaq extremely effectively. Shaq got majority of his points against every single vanilla stiff the Bulls put on him. While Rodman guarded Shaq the Bulls went on scoring runs that allowed them to beat the Magic in convincing fashion.

[97 bulls]

All that write-up proved is Rodman barely guarded Shaq in the series. And the Bulls still swept the Magic.
It proved that he was able to neutralize Shaq when he did guard him. The same as Alonzo Mourning in 97 and Malone in 97 and 98. Funny. I was watching the 98 Finals game 3 on youtube. Karl Malone was 8/11 that game. Great game right? The problem is that he was 6/6 in the first quarter. All vs Luc Longley. When Rodman checked him, he was 2/5. And this was what was special abouy Rodmans defense. Karl Malone the reigning MVP who was.well on his way to an epic game, only managed 5 shots over 3 quarters.

I remember in another game. They posted the stats of Malone FG and who he scored them on. He was only shot in the low 40s vs Rodman.

And while Rodman didnt avg a lot of.Rebounds in 97 and 98. He led the playoffs in rebound percentage. And lets not forget he was playing hurt and was only playing 30 minutes.

As far as his ability to guard 5 positions, I believe he still could. His athleticism was still there. Phil Jackson said Rodman was the best athlete hes ever coached. Thats with Jordan,.Pippen, and Kobe Bryant among others.

[97 bulls]

I also find it funny that people say Rodman didnt play.defense in his later years. And was onoy concerned with his rebounding numbers. If that was the case, he could've easily avg.15/16 boards per game if he wanted to. But he had to check some great PFs.

The man was a winner.

[Nevaeh]

Dude, 96-98 Rodman was 35-37 years old and could defend no more than 2 positions.



Shaq averaged 27/11/4 on 64% shooting in the '96 ECF. I'd say he did alright. Reason why Orlando lost that series was because how awful everybody was outside of Shaq/Penny, and the MVP of the '95 match-up, Horace Grant, only played 1 game because of injuries.



Ummm, this is a myth. Malone being a perennial choke-artist and playoff underachiever aside, Longley actually did a better job on him than Rodman for much of the '97 and '98 Finals. Rodman also came off the bench in all 6 games of the '98 Finals.


Rodman also played with a thumb injury during the 98 Finals series, which prevented him from starting. NBA2k11-13(14?) payed tribute to this with Rodman wearing the same hand wrap on all of the 98 Bulls teams in the games.


Anyway, great job setting the record straight, once AGAIN for those too lazy to read but prefer getting off on revising history on a daily basis.
:oldlol:


http://www.nytimes.com/1998/06/04/sports/the-nba-finals-notebook-sprained-thumb-hinders-rodman.html

[sfballa13]

If you didn't watch Rodman's run with the Bulls then don't bother commenting

Rodman was as great as a defender as Ben Wallace on the 2004/2005 Pistons Finals teams.

Just like Big Ben transformed the Pistons identity and defense, Rodman added grit, toughness, and the best defense in NBA history to MJ and Pippen. Don't even pretend the Bulls would do just as well without Rodman, no matter who replaces him.

Both series against Utah were tough even with Rodman. Replacing him and claiming they still easily win the titles is a joke.

Rodman's stats are meaningless. He was one of the greatest defenders and rebounders in NBA history. His 3 peat with the Bulls was also legendary, as was that entire squad. MJ-Pippen-Rodman-Phil, we will never see a team like that ever again. GOAT + GOAT Sidekick in Pippen + one of if not the most entertaining players in NBA history in Rodman (bw his antics, crazy rebounding, and pissing players off nothing is as good)

But yeh Rodman = PJ Brown LMFAO:facepalm

[TheMan]

If you didn't watch Rodman's run with the Bulls then don't bother commenting

Rodman was as great as a defender as Ben Wallace on the 2004/2005 Pistons Finals teams.

Just like Big Ben transformed the Pistons identity and defense, Rodman added grit, toughness, and the best defense in NBA history to MJ and Pippen. Don't even pretend the Bulls would do just as well without Rodman, no matter who replaces him.

Both series against Utah were tough even with Rodman. Replacing him and claiming they still easily win the titles is a joke.

Rodman's stats are meaningless. He was one of the greatest defenders and rebounders in NBA history. His 3 peat with the Bulls was also legendary, as was that entire squad. MJ-Pippen-Rodman-Phil, we will never see a team like that ever again. GOAT + GOAT Sidekick in Pippen + one of if not the most entertaining players in NBA history in Rodman (bw his antics, crazy rebounding, and pissing players off nothing is as good)

But yeh Rodman = PJ Brown LMFAO:facepalm
Bulls were 38-9 in the games Dennis missed from 96-98 :confusedshrug:

[sdot_thadon]

Bulls were 38-9 in the games Dennis missed from 96-98 :confusedshrug:
So that means they still get through shaq, Karl Malone, Kemp etc without him?

[97 bulls]

Bulls were 38-9 in the games Dennis missed from 96-98 :confusedshrug:
They were 55-27 when Jordan left in 94. They were 22-16 (or roughly that) when Pippen missed half the season in 98.

Theh were flat out a great team. No team can boast such a resume

[Angel Face]

Still 6, but no 72 - 10 record.

[mark]

How many rings would Jordan & Pippen have retired with? 3? ,,,4? ...5? :confusedshrug:


There'd be no championships in that era for Chicago.

[LAZERUSS]

We saw what MJ's teams did without an ELITE PF...a second round team that was easily beaten by a team that would get swept by a 47-35 team in the Finals. BTW, the team that beat MJ's...had an ELITE PF in Grant...who put up a staggering 18-11 .647 series against MJ's hapless front-line.

Grant and Rodman's IMPACT was HUGE in the six title runs.

Without them...no chance.

BTW, Jordan's Finals from '96 thru '98 were saved by his TEAMMATES defensive efforts. Shooting .455, .427, and .415 was nothing to write home about.

[guy]

They were 55-27 when Jordan left in 94. They were 22-16 (or roughly that) when Pippen missed half the season in 98.

Theh were flat out a great team. No team can boast such a resume

No they were 26-12. Pretty significant difference for all you regular season lovers.

[guy]

We saw what MJ's teams did without an ELITE PF...a second round team that was easily beaten by a team that would get swept by a 47-35 team in the Finals. BTW, the team that beat MJ's...had an ELITE PF in Grant...who put up a staggering 18-11 .647 series against MJ's hapless front-line.

Grant and Rodman's IMPACT was HUGE in the six title runs.

Without them...no chance.

BTW, Jordan's Finals from '96 thru '98 were saved by his TEAMMATES defensive efforts. Shooting .455, .427, and .415 was nothing to write home about.

They won 3 titles without an elite PF. Grant was elite now? :oldlol:

[scandisk_]

Prolly 4. Without the worm (replaced by a serviceable PF) I think they'll struggle against UTAH.

[LAZERUSS]

They won 3 titles without an elite PF. Grant was elite now? :oldlol:


ELITE. Especially in his biggest series.

You want his IMPACT?

Take a look at his ORtg's from '91 thru '95, ESPECIALLY in the post-season.

FAR greater IMPACT than POS Bosh.

And your boy MJ experienced his absolute dominance first hand in the '95 ECSF's.

[guy]

ELITE. Especially in his biggest series.

You want his IMPACT?

Take a look at his ORtg's from '91 thru '95, ESPECIALLY in the post-season.

FAR greater IMPACT than POS Bosh.

And your boy MJ experienced his absolute dominance first hand in the '95 ECSF's.

I'm not even going to bother but I would guess his ORTG is high since he played the majority of his minutes with Jordan, Pippen, Shaq and Penny. That really shows me.

Let me guess, Jerry West and Elgin Baylor weren't elite? :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

Let me guess, Jerry West and Elgin Baylor weren't elite? :oldlol:

Baylor was a shell by '69. Take a look at his POST-SEASON numbers. The WORST shooter on the entire Laker team in that post-season.

BTW, he and Wilt played exactly ONE FULL season together.

As for West. In his five seasons with Wilt...he was great in one post-season, good in another, below average in another, horrific in another, and completely missed another altogether.

[guy]

Baylor was a shell by '69. Take a look at his POST-SEASON numbers. The WORST shooter on the entire Laker team in that post-season.

BTW, he and Wilt played exactly ONE FULL season together.

As for West. In his five seasons with Wilt...he was great in one post-season, good in another, below average in another, horrific in another, and completely missed another altogether.

Right. They're no Horace Grant.:rolleyes:

[LAZERUSS]

Right. They're no Horace Grant.:rolleyes:

Grant from '91 thru '95, was a FAR greater player than the Baylor that Wilt was saddled with from '69 thru '72. It is truly laughable that you would even bring up that broken down piece of shit.

As for West...better player in the post-season than a '91 thru '95 Pippen from '69 thru '70, and worse than Pippen from '71 thru '73.

[TheMan]

Right. They're no Horace Grant.:rolleyes:
It's laughable the way LOOSERUS overates HoGrant, calling him elite and such :oldlol: Horace isn't even amongst the top 150 top players per basketballrefrence :lol

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Grant from '91 thru '95, was a FAR greater player than the Baylor that Wilt was saddled with from '69 thru '72. It is truly laughable that you would even bring up that broken down piece of shit.

Elgin Baylor was a basketball legend who served for our country, but because he didn't serve your Wilt the way you pleased, he's a POS? Get outta here, ****.

[LAZERUSS]

It's laughable the way LOOSERUS overates HoGrant, calling him elite and such :oldlol: Horace isn't even amongst the top 150 top players per basketballrefrence :lol

From '91 thru '95...a KEY member of THREE title teams.

His IMPACT was IMMENSE. A 14-10 PF on a .550 FG%.

Hard to believe that he and Pippen could carry a team of misfits (as 3ball would tell you anyway) to a 55-27 record. AND, had those two not missed a collective 22 games...easily a 60+ win team.

And they came very close to a title in '94 as well. They nearly beat a NY team that nearly beat the Rockets in the Finals.

And, had they had HCA...which they likely would have had those two not missed 22 games...probably a title.

[guy]

It's laughable the way LOOSERUS overates HoGrant, calling him elite and such :oldlol: Horace isn't even amongst the top 150 top players per basketballrefrence :lol

And we shouldn't really even be calling Rodman elite either. There was no argument for him being a top 15 player at the time.

[LAZERUSS]

Elgin Baylor was a basketball legend who served for our country, but because he didn't serve your Wilt the way you pleased, he's a POS? Get outta here, ****.

He was a POS in his four years with Wilt.

Plain-and-simple.

[LAZERUSS]

And we shouldn't really even be calling Rodman elite either. There was no argument for him being a top 15 player at the time.

Just leading the league in RPG and playing ELITE level defense...as were Pippen and Harper.

You Jordanites are something else.

[guy]

Just leading the league in RPG and playing ELITE level defense...as were Pippen and Harper.

You Jordanites are something else.

Is Deandre Jordan an elite player for leading the league in RPG and FG%?

[TheMan]

And we shouldn't really even be calling Rodman elite either. There was no argument for him being a top 15 player at the time.
and it isn't like we dislike Grant or Rodman but the way these clueless drones go on about MJ's supporting cast, they make it seem like MJ was carried to 6 titles, as if Mike had minimum impact and was easily replaceable.

[LAZERUSS]

Is Deandre Jordan an elite player for leading the league in RPG and FG%?

How much was his contract this past year?

Don't forget DJ's DEFENSE, either.

Of course, the Jordanites always look for the FLAWS in his teammates.

[LAZERUSS]

and it isn't like we dislike Grant or Rodman but the way these clueless drones go on about MJ's supporting cast, they make it seem like MJ was carried to 6 titles, as if Mike had minimum impact and was easily replaceable.

NO...it is CLUELESS IDIOTS that claim that Jordan was carrying casts of clowns to six rings.

[guy]

How much was his contract this past year?

Don't forget DJ's DEFENSE, either.

Of course, the Jordanites always look for the FLAWS in his teammates.

So you think DJ is elite? Well I guess you just have a much looser definition of elite.

[LAZERUSS]

So you think DJ is elite? Well I guess you just have a much looser definition of elite.

http://official.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2015/04/NBA-Defensive-Player-of-the-Year-Results-2014-15.pdf

[TheMan]

Is Deandre Jordan an elite player for leading the league in RPG and FG%?
Elite for most of us means the very top, only a handful of players. LOOSERUS considers HoGrant an elite PF :oldlol: DeAndre must be all time GOAT level by now :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

Elite for most of us means the very top, only a handful of players. LOOSERUS considers HoGrant an elite PF :oldlol: DeAndre must be all time GOAT level by now :oldlol:

I wonder what MJ thought of Grant in the '95 ECSF's?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=357166

[LAZERUSS]

Elite for most of us means the very top, only a handful of players. LOOSERUS considers HoGrant an elite PF :oldlol: DeAndre must be all time GOAT level by now :oldlol:

BTW, remove EVERY team's BEST PLAYER from their respective teams in the 90's...and just where would the Bulls rank?

Excluding '94, of course, when the Bulls went 55-27 without their's.

[TheMan]

I wonder what MJ thought of Grant in the '95 ECSF's?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=357166
Great question, I know Shaq called him the world's greatest ROLE PLAYER though :confusedshrug:

Look dude, Grant played great, big whoop, PJax also fvcked up in giving Horace open look after open look, to his credit he kept hitting them.

This is Horace Grant on MJ...


You could put any offense in front of Michael Jordan and he could give you 35 to 45 points a night,” Grant told FOX Sports in a phone interview Tuesday. “I mean, that was a given, if he needed to do that. But Michael trusted in his teammates, and each and every year in my career playing with him, he just made me, personally, a better player.”

Particularly, Grant says, Jordan’s work ethic was unmatched and was a large part of why the Bulls were able to become the dynasty they were under Phil Jackson in the 1990s after failing to shake the Detroit Pistons in the late ‘80s.
“When you have a leader like that working every single day in practice, it was contagious,” said Grant, who estimates that Jordan could have averaged 35 to 40 points a night in his prime had he played with today’s rules.

“There’s no way that the other 12 or 13 guys were not going to work because they saw their leader working his butt off to make himself a better player and us a better team. And he gave me confidence throughout my seven years there because you knew your leader had your back, no matter what.”

Looks like Horace has nothing but respect for MJ :confusedshrug:

[LAZERUSS]

Great question, I know Shaq called him the world's greatest ROLE PLAYER though :confusedshrug:

Look dude, Grant played great, big whoop, PJax also fvcked up in giving Horace open look after open look, to his credit he kept hitting them.

This is Horace Grant on MJ...

Nothing in your post detracts from Grant's IMPACT.

He admired MJ. So what?

As for Grant as a ROLE player with Shaq? He was good for two seasons, and one post-season, and was washed up after that. BTW, those Magic teams went from 50-32 without Grant, to 57-25 and 60-22 with him.

From '91 thru '95, he was among the best players in the league.

[TheMan]

Nothing in your post detracts from Grant's IMPACT.

He admired MJ. So what?

As for Grant as a ROLE player with Shaq? He was good for two seasons, and one post-season, and was washed up after that. BTW, those Magic teams went from 50-32 without Grant, to 57-25 and 60-22 with him.

From '91 thru '95, he was among the best players in the league.

That's a stretch, Grant was very good in his role and was fortunate enough to play alongside MJ, Pippen, Shaq and Penny. But to argue that he was on Barkley or Malone's level is insane.

Do you think the Bulls would be less successful with Charles Barkley at PF?

[StusOneGoodEye]

they did better for him than he did them. the most borderline hall of famer of all time.

[LAZERUSS]

That's a stretch, Grant was very good in his role and was fortunate enough to play alongside MJ, Pippen, Shaq and Penny. But to argue that he was on Barkley or Malone's level is insane.

Do you think the Bulls would be less successful with Charles Barkley at PF?

Look...the BOTTOM LINE here...

Grant was a KEY component to the first "three-peat."

And my argument is not really with you. You are a reasonably rational poster. It is with the nut-job 3ball. He has been RIPPING Pippen, Grant, Paxson, Kerr, and virtually EVERY player that MJ played with...

and then propping up Wade, Bosh, hell...Mozgov and Thompson (and ignoring Lebron's true SECOND option...the worthless JR Smith)...

He blames LEBRON for losing the '15 Finals...when James had a FAR worse supporting cast than what MJ had in his playoff sweeping losses in the mid-to-late 80's (pre-Pippen/Grant.)

THEN, he claims that MJ faced far greater teams in the 80's, when his team was getting blown out...and then compares MJ's supporting casts from the 90's...with those same teams from the 80's...even though his 90's teams were not facing anywhere NEAR that level of competition.

I KNOW that you have FAR more respect for Jordan's supporting casts than that idiot does.

[TheMan]

they did better for him than he did them. the most borderline hall of famer of all time.
Horace Grant isn't in the HOF

[sdot_thadon]

in 96 worm was:
all defensive 1st team
1st offensive rebounding
9th defensive rebounding
2nd total rebounding
1st rebounds per game
1st off rebounding %
1st def rebounding %
1st total rebounding %
6th def rating
7th dbpm
34 yrs old

97:
1st off rebounds
8th def rebounds
3rd total rebounds
1st rpg
1st off rebounding %
1st def rebounding %
1st total rebounding %
6th def rating
35 yrs old

98:
2nd off rebounds
1st def rebounds
1st total rebounds
1st in rpg
2nd off rebounding %
1st def rebounding %
1st total rebounding %
4th def rating
3rd def win shares
8th dbpm
36 yrs old

Also in 96 he led in basically every aspect of rebounding in the playoffs. In 97 his numbers dipped a bit, he also played less minutes in that run as well. In 98 he didn't lead in raw numbers but his advanced numbers show he did well in the postseason.

Fun fact:

Over those 3 "washed up" bulls years Dennis had 36 20+ rebound games.
Kg: 33
Duncan: 26
Love: 17

.......for their CAREERS.[/QUOTE]
This is not something easily replaced fellas, need to recognize.