Say Chris Bosh never joined the Heat...

[Real14]

...how many rings (even tho he have only asterisks) would bronnatella have? 0? 1?? 2??? :confusedshrug:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAWJIAECUAAl6Zn.jpg
https://ronehot1079philly.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/dwyane-wade-gay-friends-lebron-nba-funny-photos.jpg

[G0ATbe]

No Bosh, no rebound for Ray Allen bailout 3.

so 0.5* from the lockout year.

[SouBeachTalents]

With no replacement? 0

If they replace him with a similar caliber player, most likely 2

[Real14]

No Bosh, no rebound for Ray Allen bailout 3.

so 0.5* from the lockout year.

I agree on the first part but the thunder still might beat them in 2012.

[Papaya Petee]

Still more rings than Knicks since late 70s

[bigkingsfan]

Five, he would have joined the Spurs instead.

[JT123]

Probably 3, and I'm being dead serious. If Bosh hadn't joined that's 100 million dollars that the Heat can use to sign great role players and rebounders. The Heat won in 2013 with Bosh averaging a pathetic stat line of 12/6 :oldlol:
I'm pretty sure 2 decent role players would have contributed more than than 12 points and 6 boards, which means the Heat have a very good chance of winning in 2011. People forget just how inefficient Bosh was against the Mavs that year.

[Kobe_6/8]

At least 1, probably more. Bosh was the least important member of the Heatles.

[Springsteen]

Lebron stays living rent free in this dude's head. I don't blame him either, if I had to watch Lebron wipe his ass on the Spurs the same way he does to the Knicks every year, I might be as mentally shook as this guy enough to post Lebran about him than my own damn team.

Thankfully, I'm not a Knicks fan. :lol

[TheMarkMadsen]

Lebron would have done what he always does..

recruit another all star..

[SouBeachTalents]

Probably 3, and I'm being dead serious. If Bosh hadn't joined that's 100 million dollars that the Heat can use to sign great role players and rebounders. The Heat won in 2013 with Bosh averaging a pathetic stat line of 12/6 :oldlol:
I'm pretty sure 2 decent role players would have contributed more than than 12 points and 6 boards, which means the Heat have a very good chance of winning in 2011. People forget just how inefficient Bosh was against the Mavs that year.

Or if this didn't happen

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg

[TheMarkMadsen]

Probably 3, and I'm being dead serious. If Bosh hadn't joined that's 100 million dollars that the Heat can use to sign great role players and rebounders. The Heat won in 2013 with Bosh averaging a pathetic stat line of 12/6 :oldlol:
I'm pretty sure 2 decent role players would have contributed more than than 12 points and 6 boards, which means the Heat have a very good chance of winning in 2011. People forget just how inefficient Bosh was against the Mavs that year.

Bosh averaged more ppg in the finals than bran..

:roll: :roll:

[Legends66NBA7]

Replace him with a player of that level or gather better role players. They still win about the same.

[JohnMax]

They struggled without Bosh in 2012 playoffs

[3ball]

With no replacement? 0

If they replace him with a similar caliber player, most likely 2



Bosh has been a top 24 player (all-star) ten times in his career.

I don't think the OP's intent was to replace Bosh with ANOTHER top 24 player.. That defeats the whole purpose.

[SouBeachTalents]

Bosh has been a top 24 player (all-star) ten times in his career.

I don't think the OP's intent was to replace Bosh with ANOTHER top 24 player.. That defeats the whole purpose.

All-Star selections are not truly indicative of how good a player is, they're a popularity contest. Kobe made the All-Star game the past two seasons, including 2014 when he literally played in 6 games, was he a top 24 player those years?

All-NBA is much more accurate imo, and Bosh has made an All-NBA team once in 12 seasons, so by your rationale he's only been a top 15 player once in his career

[3ball]

All-Star selections are not truly indicative of how good a player is, they're a popularity contest.


Making the all-star team is subjective opinion of the coaches for non-starters like Bosh.

And when coaches vote you to the all-star team 10 times, that means you're a top 24 player.
.

[TripleA]

Chris Bosh is a second round virgin the the east without lebron trolls. He was consistently clowned for being soft and weak before going to the heat.:lol
RuPaul of big man.

[r15mohd]

Bosh has been a top 24 player (all-star) ten times in his career.

I don't think the OP's intent was to replace Bosh with ANOTHER top 24 player.. That defeats the whole purpose.


Top 24? This isn't pre-Heat Bosh where he excelled by being the lone star. And I use "excelled" very sparingly...see MJ without help, Kobe without help, etc. great individual numbers but no threat come even a 1st round playoffs series.



Also, Riley doesn't use the $15m+ Per season that Bosh is being paid? :facepalm

Obviously the money would be used elsewhere...like on true paint presence, or a better stretch 4. :rolleyes:



Btw...this was Real14 prior to the Lebron decision. It perfectly explains his constant mentioning of James like a sour b*tch who got stood up by his crush. Man the fck up already :hammerhead:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/11/06/sports/06lebron_CA0/articleLarge.jpg

[SouBeachTalents]

Sometimes making the all-star team is subjective - but even then, it's the subjective opinion of the COACHES (unless you're a starter and even then, only very rarely will a player starter not be deserving of being on the all-star team at all)..

But when you make it 10 times, that means you're a top 24 player.

If Bosh played in the West and had to go against PF competition like Duncan, Dirk, Griffin, Gasol, Amar'e, Aldridge, Love, Brand, Randolph, Boozer etc., I seriously doubt he'd have been selected to 10 All-Star games. Seriously, who the hell was his PF competition in the East? Jermaine O'Neal for a couple years, old KG? I'm not saying he wouldn't have made some All-Star games, but he's basically been an All-Star by default since there's been no real viable competition

[LAZERUSS]

Making the all-star team is subjective opinion of the coaches for non-starters like Bosh.

And when coaches vote you to the all-star team 10 times, that means you're a top 24 player.
.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Grant from 90-91 thru 94-95 >>>>>>>> POS Bosh from '10-11 thru '14-15

Not even close.

Grant played HUGE in his biggest series and games. Bosh....could throw up (and I mean throw up) ZERO points in his.

Bosh has been nothing but a JOKE in the last five seasons.

:facepalm

[LAZERUSS]

If Bosh played in the West and had to go against PF competition like Duncan, Dirk, Griffin, Gasol, Amar'e, Aldridge, Love, Brand, Randolph, Boozer etc., I seriously doubt he'd have been selected to 10 All-Star games. Seriously, who the hell was his PF competition in the East? Jermaine O'Neal for a couple years, old KG? I'm not saying he wouldn't have made some All-Star games, but he's basically been an All-Star by default since there's been no real viable competition


Bosh would have been around the 10th best PF in the West in the last five years.

[ralph_i_el]

Bosh has been a top 24 player (all-star) ten times in his career.

I don't think the OP's intent was to replace Bosh with ANOTHER top 24 player.. That defeats the whole purpose.

yes, but a top-24 player who doesn't get plays run for him (rightfully) because his skills overlap with a top-1 player isn't actually affecting the game at a top-24 rate. Replacing Bosh with an average stretch 4 (Channing Frye?) and a decent dirty-work big (to replace joel anthony/ udonis haslem) might get you the same results for less money.


Think about it like this. James Harden was still James Harden when he was on the Thunder. He just had to play 3rd banana. Bosh wasn't any better or worse as a player once he came to the Heat, he just wasn't used to to the degree he was in Toronto.

[3ball]

If Bosh played in the West


Doesn't matter - Bosh's presence as one of the top forwards in the East helped Lebron make the Finals every year.. Bosh WAS one of the top forwards in the East... And having one of the top forwards in the conference helped Lebron make the Finals.

It's the same logic you guys use to knock Zydrunas being an all-star in 2003 and 2005 - based on the level of competition available, Zydrunas was a top 24 player and/or a top player in the East, just like Bosh is!!!

[ralph_i_el]

Making the all-star team is subjective opinion of the coaches for non-starters like Bosh.

And when coaches vote you to the all-star team 10 times, that means you're a top 24 player.
.

no, it means you're a top 2-3 player at your position in your conference of all of the guys who are healthy and willing to play.

big difference.

[3ball]

no, it means you're a top 2-3 player at your position in your conference of all of the guys who are healthy and willing to play.

big difference.
Doesn't matter - Bosh's presence as one of the top forwards in the East helped Lebron make the Finals every year..

Bosh WAS one of the top forwards in the East... And having one of the top forwards in the conference helped Lebron make the Finals.

It's the same logic you guys use to knock Zydrunas being an all-star in 2003 and 2005 - based on the level of competition available, Zydrunas was a top 24 player and/or a top player in the East, just like Bosh is!!!

[LAZERUSS]

Doesn't matter - Bosh's presence as one of the top forwards in the East helped Lebron make the Finals every year..

Bosh WAS one of the top forwards in the East... And having one of the top forwards in the conference helped Lebron make the Finals.

It's the same logic you guys use to knock Zydrunas being an all-star in 2003 and 2005 - based on the level of competition available, Zydrunas was a top 24 player and/or a top player in the East, just like Bosh is!!!

:roll: :roll: :roll:

The Heat went to four Finals, and won TWO of them DESPITE POS Bosh.

Bosh = JOKE.

We witnessed Bosh's true worth this year. A 22-30 record...in a weak conference.

[3ball]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

The Heat went to four Finals, and won TWO of them DESPITE POS Bosh.

Bosh = JOKE.

We witnessed Bosh's true worth this year. A 22-30 record...in a weak conference.
Bosh in playoffs from 2011-2014:

14.9 ppg and 7.4 rpg

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game


This is better than Horace Grant's 11/8 playoff averages from 1988-1993 alongside MJ (Grant's averages were exactly the same in playoffs from 1991-1993 AND for his career - he was simply an 11/8 player):

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/grantho01.html#1988-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game


Also, for a 3rd option, Bosh's 15/7 on 48% is pretty close to Pippen's playoff averages from 1996-1998 of 17/7/5 on 40.8%:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced


Of course, Wade's playoff averages from 2011-2014 were much better the aforementioned 17/7/5 on 40.8% from Pippen in 1996-1998 playoffs - Wade averaged 20/5/4 on 48% in 2011-2014 playoffs:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game


In b4 lazeruss posts some delusional garbage about how Grant helped Shaq and Penny's Magic to 60 wins in 1995 and how MJ lost to Orlando in 1995 when he was rusty and didn't have chemistry with his new teammates... And in b4 I crush this delusional argument as always with a copy and paste

[LAZERUSS]

Bosh in playoffs from 2011-2014:

14.9 ppg and 7.4 rpg

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game


This is better than Horace Grant's 11/8 playoff averages from 1988-1993 alongside MJ (Grant's averages were exactly the same in playoffs from 1991-1993 AND for his career - he was simply an 11/8 player):

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/grantho01.html#1988-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game


Also, for a 3rd option, Bosh's 15/7 on 48% is pretty close to Pippen's playoff averages from 1996-1998 of 17/7/5 on 40.8%:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced


Of course, Wade's playoff averages from 2011-2014 were much better the aforementioned 17/7/5 on 40.8% from Pippen in 1996-1998 playoffs - Wade averaged 20/5/4 on 48% in 2011-2014 playoffs:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game

Grant from '91 thru '95... 14-10 .550 and ORtgs that just BLOW AWAY the worthless Bosh.

And Pippen from '91 thru '94...MUCH greater than Wade from '11-14. 21-8-6 .490. And that is before his HOF DEFENSE, as well.

Pippen and Grant from '91 thru '94 FAR greater than Wade/Bosh from '11 thru '14.

Then both of them were LIGHT YEARS better in '95 than those two broken down has-beens in '15...albeit, Grant was leading his Magic to a second round knockout over MJ-Pippen's Bulls in '95.

[AintNoSunshine]

So we'll just pretend to take away a team's 3rd option with no replacement? LOL

Anyways, 2 or 3. The dude scored 0 points in a Finals game 7 FFS.

[LAZERUSS]

So we'll just pretend to take away a team's 3rd option with no replacement? LOL

Anyways, 2 or 3. The dude scored 0 points in a Finals game 7 FFS.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

:cheers:

[ralph_i_el]

Doesn't matter

typical 3ball.

"I'm wrong again, DOESN'T MATTER....time to be wrong some more!"

[3ball]

Grant from '91 thru '95... worthless Bosh.


We're evaluating MJ and Lebron's supporting casts, so the years where Grant didn't play with MJ (94' and 95') aren't included.

Grant's relevant stats - the ones he got alongisde MJ - were 11/8... Can you get that through your head?... 11/8 for his career.... 11/8 for the playoffs from 1988-1993... and 11/8 for his championship years from 1991-1993... Grant was 11/8.

Meanwhile, Bosh was 17/7 alongside Lebron from 2011 to 2015, and 15/7 in the playoffs..

Bosh also shot 40% from 3-point range in the playoffs - a truly versatile offensive player who could spread the floor for Lebron-ball - Grant can't do that.. :confusedshrug:





And Pippen from '91 thru '94...greater than Wade from '11-14.


Of course - Pippen was 25, while Wade was 30.

But if you compare them at the same age - Pippen's 1996-1998 playoff stats vs. Wade's from 2011-2014 - Wade's are better:

Wade.. 2011-2014: 20/5/4 on 47.5%
Pippen 1996-1998: 17/7/5 on 40.8%


If you want to compare 25 year old Pippen to someone - just for kicks - compare him to 25-year old Wade... See how that works out... Prime Pippen is a "bum" compared to prime Wade (those aren't my words... those are Shaq's)

[LAZERUSS]

We're evaluating MJ and Lebron's supporting casts, so the years where Grant didn't play with MJ (94' and 95') aren't included.

Grant's relevant stats - the ones he got alongisde MJ - were 11/8... Can you get that through your head?... 11/8 for his career.... 11/8 for the playoffs from 1988-1993... and 11/8 for his championship years from 1991-1993... Grant was 11/8.

Meanwhile, Bosh was 17/7 alongside Lebron from 2011 to 2015, and 15/7 in the playoffs..

Bosh also shot 40% from 3-point range in the playoffs - a truly versatile offensive player who could spread the floor for Lebron-ball - Grant can't do that.. :confusedshrug:



Of course - Pippen was 25, while Wade was 30.

But if you compare them at the same age - Pippen's 1996-1998 playoff stats vs. Wade's from 2011-2014 - Wade's are better:

Wade.. 2011-2014: 20/5/4 on 47.5%
Pippen 1996-1998: 17/7/5 on 40.8%


If you want to compare 25 year old Pippen to someone - just for kicks - compare him to 25-year old Wade... See how that works out... Prime Pippen is a "bum" compared to prime Wade (those aren't my words... those are Shaq's)

You just don't get it, do you?

Lebron NEVER played with a PEAK Wade. In fact, in three of his four seasons with Wade, he was playing with a broken down has-been.

You want to know just how valuable Wade was from '11 thru '14? The Heat went 47-18 withOUT him?

Kind of like how the Bulls did with Pippen in the year that MJ took off... 51-21.

A PEAK Pippen >>>> than Wade from '11 thru '14.

As for Grant...FAR more efficient, AND, FAR more CLUTCH than the worthless Bosh.

Grant without MJ... 48-22.

Bosh without Lebron... 22-30.

[3ball]

A PEAK Pippen >>>> than Wade from '11 thru '14.


Of course - Pippen was 25, while Wade was 30.

But if we compare them at the same age, which would be Pippen's 1996-1998 playoff stats vs. Wade's from 2011-2014 - Wade's are better:

Wade.. 2011-2014: 20/5/4 on 47.5%
Pippen 1996-1998: 17/7/5 on 40.8%


If you want to compare 25 year old Pippen to someone - just for kicks - compare him to 25-year old Wade... See how that works out... Prime Pippen is a "bum" compared to prime Wade (those aren't my words... those are Shaq's)

[Rose'sACL]

Of course - Pippen was 25, while Wade was 30.

But if we compare them at the same age, which would be Pippen's 1996-1998 playoff stats vs. Wade's from 2011-2014 - Wade's are better:

Wade.. 2011-2014: 20/5/4 on 47.5%
Pippen 1996-1998: 17/7/5 on 40.8%


If you want to compare 25 year old Pippen to someone - just for kicks - compare him to 25-year old Wade... See how that works out... Prime Pippen is a "bum" compared to prime Wade (those aren't my words... those are Shaq's)
are you retarded or are you retarded?

[3ball]

are you retarded or are you retarded?
Are you?

Pippen age was 30-32 for the 2nd three-peat (1996-1998), while Wade was 29-32 for his stint alongside Lebron (2011-2014).

So yeah, at the SAME AGES, Wade's stats were better:

Wade.. 2011-2014: 20/5/4 on 47.5%
Pippen 1996-1998: 17/7/5 on 40.8%

[LAZERUSS]

Are you?

Pippen age was 30-32 for the 2nd three-peat (1996-1998), while Wade was 29-32 for his stint alongside Lebron (2011-2014).

So yeah, at the SAME AGES, Wade's stats were better:

Wade.. 2011-2014: 20/5/4 on 47.5%
Pippen 1996-1998: 17/7/5 on 40.8%

So, a 25 year old Wade played with Lebron, but a 25 year old Pippen did not play with Jordan?

Yep...

[3ball]

So, a 25 year old Wade played with Lebron, but a 25 year old Pippen did not play with Jordan?


We've already established that the playoff production of 29-32 year old Wade (20/5/4/48%) was greater than 30-32 year old Pippen's during the 2nd three-peat (17/7/5/41%).

A younger Pippen played with Jordan too, but his stats weren't much better tbh - Pippen's playoff stats from 1991-1993 were 20/8/6, which is barely better than Wade's 20/5/4 from 2011 to 2014..

And Bosh's stats destroy Grant's 11/8... Grant was 11/8 for his career... 11/8 for his time alongside MJ (88'-93')... 11/8 for his championship years alongside MJ (1991-1993).. Grant was simply an 11/8 player..

Otoh, Bosh was a 17/7 player alongside Lebron, and even shot 40% from three in the playoffs - Bosh could spread the floor for Lebron-ball, which Grant can't do.. Grant would be much closer to Birdman alongside Lebron, than the versatile Bosh... Birdman Birdman

[FreezingTsmoove]

Bosh averaged more ppg in the finals than bran..

:roll: :roll:

:applause

[retaxis]

Okay guys stop wasting your time replying to the troll 3ball

On topic now...

Was it not just yesterday when Boozer was going 30/10 against Bosh? Remember when Hibbert (who is considered offensively inept) managed to consistently score 20-30points on Bosh with 10+ rebounds? Remember when West was bullying Bosh around?

Bosh has been consistently shat on by 3rd/4th options on various teams and we are not even talking about KG on the celtics.

Lets say Bosh max contract and Joel Anthonys 5mil a year contract is discarded and instead you get a Horford and a Mozgov. The flexibility of Having Horford or Mozgov would mean the Heat could finally actually play big and rebound:applause:

want to go small? They can go Chalmers, Wade, Allen, Bron, Horford. Go Big? Chalmers, Wade, Lebron, Horford, Mozgov. A much better team then a stick figure with no toughness getting smacked around in the post all game by has been 3rd options like West, Boozer, Hibbert and KG...