John Stockton vs Steve Nash

[Braincells]

Which white point guard would you start a team with?

[Fire Colangelo]

Nash

People will tell you how underrated Stockton is, etc etc but the truth is he was never the best player on the team and he was never even the best PG in the league.

[Richie2k6]

The one that plays defense

[StephHamann]

Give Nash Malone for his career and they win at least one title.

[kennethgriffin]

stockton is a top 25 player all time

nash is barely a top 35 player all time


those 2 mvps mean jack sh*t


<----- Canadian too

[ClipperRevival]

Give me Stockton. Much better NBA level athleticism and better defender. I'll sacrifice some shooting, bball iq and passing genius.

[iTare]

Give Nash Malone for his career and they win at least one title.
When?

[Svendiggity]

Stockton and it's not even close

[iTare]

Stockton and it's not even close
This. This. This.

F*cking idiots don't understand how great Stockton was. Top 20 for sure.

[Levity]

Looooong time stockon fan. So ill go with my bias. Though, choosing one over the other wouldnt make a team significantly better or worse

[StephHamann]

When?

1994

Stockton 14/9 on 41%

If we go the other way.

2006, he probably would have won with Amare if he was not hurt.

Same goes for 2003, Dirk goes down and they lose against the Spurs, would have won with (healthy) Malone both times.

[Bandito]

Wont even read this thread. Stockton

[CakeorDeath]

1994

Stockton 14/9 on 41%

If we go the other way.

2006, he probably would have won with Amare if he was not hurt.

Same goes for 2003, Dirk goes down and they lose against the Spurs, would have won with (healthy) Malone both times.

So you cherry-picked the worst playoff performance of Stockton's prime and we're just supposed to accept that Nash would've done better?

Let's do the same for Nash. 2003-2004 he averaged 13/9 on 38% shooting. Mavs flamed out of the playoffs in the first round in 5 games. To a team who lost in the next round to a team who lost in round after that. At least in Stockton's situation, they lost in the WCF to the eventual champions, who successfully defended their title the following year.

[CakeorDeath]

Give me Stockton. Much better NBA level athleticism and better defender. I'll sacrifice some shooting, bball iq and passing genius.

Luckily, you don't have to give up any of those things if you pick Stockton. Unless you are talking only 3 pt shooting as opposed to overall FG%

[StephHamann]

So you cherry-picked the worst playoff performance of Stockton's prime and we're just supposed to accept that Nash would've done better?

Let's do the same for Nash. 2003-2004 he averaged 13/9 on 38% shooting. Mavs flamed out of the playoffs in the first round in 5 games. To a team who lost in the next round to a team who lost in round after that. At least in Stockton's situation, they lost in the WCF to the eventual champions, who successfully defended their title the following year.

Stockton was the reason they lost in 1994.

He was guarded by Kenny Smith for gods sake.

[pastis]

Stockton and it's not even close

this! stockton is extremly underrated etc. etc.

[CakeorDeath]

Stockton was the reason they lost in 1994.

He was guarded by Kenny Smith for gods sake.

Still doesn't mean they would have won it all with Nash

[SCdac]

I bet Stockton could win an MVP if he put up 17+ ppg & 14 apg in today's league. and he was an all-NBA level defender (who was kinda dirty/pesky at times, but that's not always a bad thing). As much as I appreciate Nash's combo of playmaking and sharpshooting, give me Stockton

[Mass Debator]

First option, Nash.
Second option, Stockton.
Third option, Stockton.

Neither are first options on a championship team so Stockton is the winner.

[Lebron23]

Give me John Stockton. But Nash is getting underrated in this forum.

[CakeorDeath]

I bet Stockton could win an MVP if he put up 17+ ppg & 14 apg in today's league. and he was an all-NBA level defender (who was kinda dirty/pesky at times, but that's not always a bad thing). As much as I appreciate Nash's combo of playmaking and sharpshooting, give me Stockton

Yep. Stockton has 8 seasons that are statistically superior than the better of Nash's 2 MVP seasons.

[CakeorDeath]

Give me John Stockton. But Nash is getting underrated in this forum.

Disagree. Nash is regularly rated as a top-3 PG of his era and fringe top 10 PG of all time. Right where he should be.

[Braincells]

Stockton just got really unlucky and ran into the GOAT twice. I think people would be singing a different tune if he won at least 1 ring. I would pick Stockton over Nash simply because he played on both ends of the floor. I would argue he was also a better passer than Nash.

[Xiao Yao You]

Nash

People will tell you how underrated Stockton is, etc etc but the truth is he was never the best player on the team and he was never even the best PG in the league.

He was the best player on his team and he was up with any pg most of his career outside Magic who I put in a category all by himself.

[Human Error]

Not only Nash's 2 MVPs were complete joke, but also it is debatable whether he was even the team's best player during his MVP run. I always thought Amare was the best player on the team and at his peak Marion was also better. As for Stockton he wasn't the best point guard in the game nor the team's best player either, but he was a great defensive point guard and it is an impossible task for any PG in history to be the team's best player that has a prime Karl Malone. So I would go with Stockton.

[CakeorDeath]

Not only Nash's 2 MVPs were complete joke, but also it is debatable whether he was even the team's best player during his MVP run. I always thought Amare was the best player on the team and at his peak Marion was also better. As for Stockton he wasn't the best point guard in the game nor the team's best player either, but he was a great defensive point guard and it is an impossible task for any PG in history to be the team's best player that has a prime Karl Malone. So I would go with Stockton.

I would argue Stockton was the league's best PG between the 91/92 season and the 95/96 season. Some will argue Thomas for the early half of that and Payton for the second half, but I disagree in both cases.

[You Cant Ban Me]

Can i have kidd or curry?They are like the same thing but bigger faster stronger?Or do i have to pick from these 2 OP?

[CakeorDeath]

Can i have kidd or curry?They are like the same thing but bigger faster stronger?Or do i have to pick from these 2 OP?

Kidd can't compete with Stockton. Curry might have the resume of an all-time PG before he's done though.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Nash.

[Fire Colangelo]

Not only Nash's 2 MVPs were complete joke, but also it is debatable whether he was even the team's best player during his MVP run. I always thought Amare was the best player on the team and at his peak Marion was also better. As for Stockton he wasn't the best point guard in the game nor the team's best player either, but he was a great defensive point guard and it is an impossible task for any PG in history to be the team's best player that has a prime Karl Malone. So I would go with Stockton.

wow lol.

What about the season when Amare was injured? You do realize Stoudemire and Marion's FG% increased by 5-10% just by playing with Nash?

You do realize Nash took over the Suns by turning a 29 win team into a 62 win team? Sure, Amare improved from the 04 season to 05 season, but a huge chunk of that credit goes to Nash.

And how about the fact that Stockton never won anything despite playing with Karl Malone? If Stockton is as great as you guys think, why weren't they able to win anything?

For all the shit Chris Paul and Blake Griffin gets for not winning for the past 4 seasons, here you have a top 2 PF in Karl Malone teamed up together for their entire careers.

Oh yeah, they played against Jordan. Twice! What about the rest of the 15 years they played together?

I mean, I'd probably take Stockton due to longevity (though Nash was no slouch), but you guys are crazy if you think Stockton had a better prime/peak than Nash.

I feel like some of you guys are either stuck in nostalgia or just never watched Stockton play. Dude made the right plays, and made the right passes to Karl Malone for the score but he could never take over a game, or have the defenses on their heels like Steve Nash could.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Not only Nash's 2 MVPs were complete joke, but also it is debatable whether he was even the team's best player during his MVP run. I always thought Amare was the best player on the team and at his peak Marion was also better. As for Stockton he wasn't the best point guard in the game nor the team's best player either, but he was a great defensive point guard and it is an impossible task for any PG in history to be the team's best player that has a prime Karl Malone. So I would go with Stockton.

One of the dumbest things I've ever read on ISH.

Nash had a GOAT-tier PG offensive impact on Phoenix (and Dallas, so **** the "product of MDA's system" garbage) and it's constantly ignored. He's responsible for the 5 best offenses ever as far as ORTG relative to league average, impact >>>>> box scores.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Both great overall shooters... Nash being the better one.

Both could score in the high-teens very efficiently... Steve was the better scorer.

Both GOAT-level passers... Nash was more flashy and creative with it but John has him beat in terms of effectiveness and I'd call him a top2 all-time passer along with Magic.

Ofc, both were beasts at running an offense.

Stockton was the better defensive player and it's not even close there.

Nash has the two MVP trophies going on for him (they played in different eras though), while John has more longevity and more team success.

Extremely close here but at their best I'd most likely pick Steve if I needed a #1 option... Every other situation I'm going with Stockton, even including not knowing which team I'm "getting".

I also have John a bit higher on my all-time list. I feel that Nash gets underrated here though.

[Smoke117]

To be fair...Nash peaked when it was much easier on smaller and weaker guards. Nash was never the epitome of strength, but it didn't really matter when you can't even play guards physically at all. Stockton pretty much peaked even before the 95 hand checking rule change. The point? He would be better now. A lot of these smaller pg's we have now that are pretty good wouldn't be much back playing under those roles. They would get manhandled.

[SHAQisGOAT]

To be fair...Nash peaked when it was much easier on smaller and weaker guards. Nash was never the epitome of strength, but it didn't really matter when you can't even play guards physically at all. Stockton pretty much peaked even before the 95 hand checking rule change. The point? He would be better now. A lot of these smaller pg's we have now that are pretty good wouldn't be much back playing under those roles. They would get manhandled.

That's also true though... Even for the longevity side; dudes like Zeke, KJ, Price or Lever didn't last long because of all of that also. Makes you appreciate Stockton's longevity even more.

[tpols]

One of the dumbest things I've ever read on ISH.

Nash had a GOAT-tier PG offensive impact on Phoenix (and Dallas, so **** the "product of MDA's system" garbage) and it's constantly ignored. He's responsible for the 5 best offenses ever as far as ORTG relative to league average, impact >>>>> box scores.

true.. nash is more of a takeover player, very underrated in the clutch, quicker shot off the dribble with better accuracy.. very underrated 'tough' shotmaker

[TheBigVeto]

Stockton never joined the Lakers, so Stockton wins.

[LAL]

Almost 20 years of exellence on both ends of the court.

[TonyMontana]

I have to say that I believe John Stockton was the better player.

But Steve Nash was more dominant in the league at his peak.

What I mean is that the rules were easier in Nash's time so he was able to do more. I think if Stockton played with 2006 perimeter rules on D'antonis Suns then there is a strong chance he would have been even better than Nash.

But no way to know for sure. You certainly can't go wrong with either pick.

[magnax1]

This. This. This.

F*cking idiots don't understand how great Stockton was. Top 20 for sure.
:applause:

Nobody outside of Utah appreciates stockton. Was just unreal at his peak. Malone would have been a completely different player without him even when Stockton was older and not as good.

[Svendiggity]

Stockton embraced the pain of the game in a way that a player like Rodman and Bird did. He'd take the elbow to the jaw , a knee to the gut, he'd dive for a loose ball; if it was going to save a point or create a basket, he'd do it. Those things don't show up in a boxscore. Everyone respected him because of this and it made him a dynamic leader.

Stockton was the best decision maker I ever saw play the game. Averaged about 2 turnovers a game for his career. Anyone interested in hearing what Kenny and Charles said about him when he got inducted into the hall of fame, here's a link. You only need to watch the first minute. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7c01ylN4BY

[97 bulls]

I gotta go with Stockton. Best pure PG ever.

[miles berg]

Lol, seriously?

Stockton was soooo much better.

[Reggie43]

You could take out Stockton's obvious defensive advantage and he would still be better than Nash.

[WayOfWade]

This is tough considering the fact that neither won any title. Still though, I'll go with Stockton, only because I live in Utah

[warriorfan]

Not only Nash's 2 MVPs were complete joke, but also it is debatable whether he was even the team's best player during his MVP run. I always thought Amare was the best player on the team and at his peak Marion was also better. As for Stockton he wasn't the best point guard in the game nor the team's best player either, but he was a great defensive point guard and it is an impossible task for any PG in history to be the team's best player that has a prime Karl Malone. So I would go with Stockton.




One of the dumbest things I've ever read on ISH.

Nash had a GOAT-tier PG offensive impact on Phoenix (and Dallas, so **** the "product of MDA's system" garbage) and it's constantly ignored. He's responsible for the 5 best offenses ever as far as ORTG relative to league average, impact >>>>> box scores.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150418172513/http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2005.html

Nash 4.8
Marion 4.7
Amare 4.5

Dat impact doe... :facepalm

[Round Mound]

Stockton The GOAT Desicion Maker!

[L.A. Jazz]

Mr. Stockton

[24-Inch_Chrome]

You could take out Stockton's obvious defensive advantage and he would still be better than Nash.

Not even close to the truth.

http://i.imgur.com/79u65bf.jpg

[warriorfan]

Not even close to the truth.

http://i.imgur.com/79u65bf.jpg

What about defense?

Poor playoff showings.

Final verdict: Empty stats.

[StephHamann]

What about defense?

Poor playoff showings.

Final verdict: Empty stats.

Defense? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnLKxzidBow

Poor playoff showings? http://i.imgur.com/Zmw4RcA.png

Final verdict? http://img0.worldhistoryproject.org/photos/images/c8e2bd1e38f3cd7b390a7865a90f612f_three_column.jpg

[DMV2]

While Stockton played with Malone, a player better than anybody Nash has ever played with, one of the Jazz teams were as deep as the Suns. Oh, and they lost to the GOAT and the Bulls.

The 90's WC was still pretty good too so it wasnt like the Jazz made it to 2 Finals in a weak conference.

There's really no excuse for ash Suns not to make 1 single Finals, especially after the break up of Shaq and Kobe..

[warriorfan]

Defense? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnLKxzidBow

Poor playoff showings? http://i.imgur.com/Zmw4RcA.png

Final verdict? http://img0.worldhistoryproject.org/photos/images/c8e2bd1e38f3cd7b390a7865a90f612f_three_column.jpg

Why are you posting Finals stats when talking about Steve Nash. Wanna compare it to Steve Nash's Final's stats? Yeah...

Way to post a youtube clip of a 13 year younger Allen Iverson burning an ancient Stockton instead of posting the defensive ratings of Steve Nash....


Final verdict: You are shitty at posting

[StephHamann]

Why are you posting Finals stats when talking about Steve Nash. Wanna compare it to Steve Nash's Final's stats? Yeah...

Way to post a youtube clip of a 13 year younger Allen Iverson burning an ancient Stockton instead of posting the defensive ratings of Steve Nash....


Final verdict: You are shitty at posting

1994 finals stats?

ayy lmao

[Reggie43]

Not even close to the truth.

http://i.imgur.com/79u65bf.jpg

This proves what exactly? That nash played on a high paced offensive team with tons of offensive options that hardly cared about defense. Put him on a slower paced team without the rule changes and then we would be talking about how Billups or Tony Parker is much better than him.

[JohnnySic]

Stockton.

[FKAri]

Peak: Nash
First option: Nash

Otherwise, Stockton.

[senelcoolidge]

Stockton. Some people don't realize how great of a shooter Stockton was, it's just that he was a pass first point guard. He could set up anyone. He was a scrappy defender, which Nash wasn't .

[L.A. Jazz]

John wasnt just a good defender, he was all-nba-defensive good (5times second team)!

And he is the alltime stealsleader without just gambling and being out of position.

[GreggPopazit]

Stockton, all day. Dude was a better passer and defender.