Arenas on MJ vs Kobe . 36YR OLD MJ as good as Prime Kobe

[NBASTATMAN]

The Debate...Who's Better?!?! we have to break down the two players..ALL Stats and rules removed....you have a (self made man) #KOBE standing at 6'6 with a 38 inch vert..a work ethic of a Man who seemed #Machinelike...the basketball IQ of pure genius...the confidence of a man who ruled this planet....these type of ppl comes around every 10 years....#mayweathers #jerryrice #michaeljohnson...Now u have the (freak of nature) #JORDAN standing at 6-6 with a 48 inch vert...a work ethic of a #AlienLifeForm...the #IQ of someone who created the sport...the confidence of a man who WAS the planet..to see who jordan was,WE have to build him by combining a few players....we will all agree #KOBE is close but since #MJ jump 1 foot higher...Give #KOBE Vince Carter jumping ability and control in the air even tho #Mj jumped higher then vince,wish i could stopped there but jordans (type 2 fibers,fast twitch muscles were off the charts..giving him the ability to explode off the move like a rocket without slowing down to gather..one player that has that ability #westbrook so Now we give #KOBE #westbrook's ability to rocket move at full speed..Now we have kobe with vince carter's jumping ability and westbrook's powerful movements and takeoff ability...now only if kobe had this capability he would have been JORDAN and hint why (Phil Jackson said Jordan would avg 50 in this era)...Kobe just wasn't gifted the way MJ was but u have to give him his credit for working his ass off too get mentioned in the same lane as this (unhumanman) it shows u how hard kobe worked but now u know why jordan at 36 looked far more dominant then kobe at 36..when jordan started slowing down his 48 inch very went too 38..and he became kobe in his prime....FORGET STATS....everyone gets fooled by era and the evolution of the game...kobes creativity wasn't created in jordans era....Jordan didn't get to update his software...so u take it all away......so now ask ur self who's better...KOBEBLKMAMBA or KOBE/vince/westbrooke???? JORDAN is the G.O.A.T and KOBE is G.O.A.T of Hardwork





MJ much better than Kobe.. Kobe goat of hard work... IAGREE:cheers:

[ClipperRevival]

The Debate...Who's Better?!?! we have to break down the two players..ALL Stats and rules removed....you have a (self made man) #KOBE standing at 6'6 with a 38 inch vert..a work ethic of a Man who seemed #Machinelike...the basketball IQ of pure genius...the confidence of a man who ruled this planet....these type of ppl comes around every 10 years....#mayweathers #jerryrice #michaeljohnson...Now u have the (freak of nature) #JORDAN standing at 6-6 with a 48 inch vert...a work ethic of a #AlienLifeForm...the #IQ of someone who created the sport...the confidence of a man who WAS the planet..to see who jordan was,WE have to build him by combining a few players....we will all agree #KOBE is close but since #MJ jump 1 foot higher...Give #KOBE Vince Carter jumping ability and control in the air even tho #Mj jumped higher then vince,wish i could stopped there but jordans (type 2 fibers,fast twitch muscles were off the charts..giving him the ability to explode off the move like a rocket without slowing down to gather..one player that has that ability #westbrook so Now we give #KOBE #westbrook's ability to rocket move at full speed..Now we have kobe with vince carter's jumping ability and westbrook's powerful movements and takeoff ability...now only if kobe had this capability he would have been JORDAN and hint why (Phil Jackson said Jordan would avg 50 in this era)...Kobe just wasn't gifted the way MJ was but u have to give him his credit for working his ass off too get mentioned in the same lane as this (unhumanman) it shows u how hard kobe worked but now u know why jordan at 36 looked far more dominant then kobe at 36..when jordan started slowing down his 48 inch very went too 38..and he became kobe in his prime....FORGET STATS....everyone gets fooled by era and the evolution of the game...kobes creativity wasn't created in jordans era....Jordan didn't get to update his software...so u take it all away......so now ask ur self who's better...KOBEBLKMAMBA or KOBE/vince/westbrooke???? JORDAN is the G.O.A.T and KOBE is G.O.A.T of Hardwork





MJ much better than Kobe.. Kobe goat of hard work... IAGREE:cheers:

Gilbert Arenas said this?

[HurricaneKid]

Gilbert Arenas said this?

Whoever said it is comically off base calling Kobe's IQ pure genius. He has the lowest BBIQ of any all time great.

[NBASTATMAN]

Gilbert Arenas said this?


http://www.lakersnation.com/instagram-gilbert-arenas-compares-kobe-bryant-michael-jordan/2015/07/30/

[Megabox!]

Whoever said it is comically off base calling Kobe's IQ pure genius. He has the lowest BBIQ of any all time great.
I wouldn't say the lowest but he is one stubborn bastard

[NBASTATMAN]

Whoever said it is comically off base calling Kobe's IQ pure genius. He has the lowest BBIQ of any all time great.


2008-2010 Kobe played smart and great basketball.. I think he usually fought with what was best for the team vs what was best for him..

[kennethgriffin]

mj already said kobes better

[TheMan]

mj already said kobes better
Lol

[ClipperRevival]

2008-2010 Kobe played smart and great basketball.. I think he usually fought with what was best for the team vs what was best for him..

He played smart from 2000 - 2002 and 2008 - 2010. You don't win rings by chucking away. I know Kobe's instinct was always to chuck away but PJ found a way to pull him back and convince him to play within the system.

I consider Kobe to be at his absolute best in terms of knowing how to maximize the talents on his team in 2008-09. He really looked MJesque in the 2009 playoffs. Dominating offensively when needed and getting others involved when needed and he still had enough athleticism from his youth to impact the game with his athleticism. Not 2005 athleticism but enough.

[ShawkFactory]

mj already said kobes better
http://www.troll.me/images/creepy-willy-wonka/creepy-willy-wonka.jpg

[scm5]

I know it's hard to read that pile of crap, but he said 36 yo jordan looks more dominant than 36 yo kobe.

[West-Side]

Phil Jackson & Pau Gasol said "I'll take 2014 Kobe Bryant over prime Michael Jordan." :bowdown:

Kobe's better.

[SwayDizzle]

Kobe is the smartest ball player to ever play the game. he absorbed all the knowledge of the past greats and took it a notch further (hence the triple team tough shots).

[3ball]

:banana:

[3ball]

The Debate...Who's Better?!?! we have to break down the two players..ALL Stats and rules removed....you have a (self made man) #KOBE standing at 6'6 with a 38 inch vert..a work ethic of a Man who seemed #Machinelike...the basketball IQ of pure genius...the confidence of a man who ruled this planet....these type of ppl comes around every 10 years....#mayweathers #jerryrice #michaeljohnson...Now u have the (freak of nature) #JORDAN standing at 6-6 with a 48 inch vert...a work ethic of a #AlienLifeForm...the #IQ of someone who created the sport...the confidence of a man who WAS the planet..to see who jordan was,WE have to build him by combining a few players....we will all agree #KOBE is close but since #MJ jump 1 foot higher...Give #KOBE Vince Carter jumping ability and control in the air even tho #Mj jumped higher then vince,wish i could stopped there but jordans (type 2 fibers,fast twitch muscles were off the charts..giving him the ability to explode off the move like a rocket without slowing down to gather..one player that has that ability #westbrook so Now we give #KOBE #westbrook's ability to rocket move at full speed..Now we have kobe with vince carter's jumping ability and westbrook's powerful movements and takeoff ability...now only if kobe had this capability he would have been JORDAN and hint why (Phil Jackson said Jordan would avg 50 in this era)...Kobe just wasn't gifted the way MJ was but u have to give him his credit for working his ass off too get mentioned in the same lane as this (unhumanman) it shows u how hard kobe worked but now u know why jordan at 36 looked far more dominant then kobe at 36..when jordan started slowing down his 48 inch very went too 38..and he became kobe in his prime....FORGET STATS....everyone gets fooled by era and the evolution of the game...kobes creativity wasn't created in jordans era....Jordan didn't get to update his software...so u take it all away......so now ask ur self who's better...KOBEBLKMAMBA or KOBE/vince/westbrooke???? JORDAN is the G.O.A.T and KOBE is G.O.A.T of Hardwork


Gilbert said MJ jumps higher than Vince.... i TOLD y'all ******

[warriorfan]

Gilbert said MJ jumps higher than Vince.... i TOLD y'all ******

It is pretty obvious. Vince gets up there and has very impressive dunks but Vince clearly never had the hang time MJ had.

[ClipperRevival]

I disagree with Arenas. Vince jumped higher than MJ. How do I know this? Easy. Look at where their heads are at in relation to the rim when they dunk. No wing player has close as as many head right at the rim dunks than Vince. MJ was more acrobatic, agile and flexible but in terms of sheer elevation, Vince tops MJ.

[kennethgriffin]

am i the only one that knows jordan never even played ball at age 36

[HighFlyer23]

MJ did not jump higher than Vince

As for MJs "hang time" ... Many of those plays were travels as his feet touched the floor before he got the shot up.

[ShawkFactory]

am i the only one that knows jordan never even played ball at age 36
Doesn't matter. He could have come out of retirement and been just as good.

[TheBigVeto]

mj already said kobes better

'mj' as is 'moron jackasses' not michael jordan the basketball player

[jstern]

I've looked into who could jump higher between Jordan and Vince. And Vince, while having longer arms, could not jump anywhere near the the distance Jordan jumped, when attempting to do a free throw dunk. And believe me, if Vince could dunk from the free throw line, he would. He couldn't despite having longer arms. He's still the GOAT dunker though.

[Smoke117]

38 year old Jordan played better defense than Kobe in his big shit 06 season. I honestly don't know if you can get more pathetic than this delusion that Kobe was even close to a very good defender career wise or all time. (LOL)

[TripleA]

What people don't understand is that you cannot see a person's vertical when they are dunking. Their true vertical is without the ball.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The only version(s) of Mike I wouldn't 100% take over Kobe are the Wizards years.

Even as a rookie, I feel that MJ's game was incredibly polished and efficient. I'd have more confidence in him than Kobe in his prime. :oldlol:

[ClipperRevival]

What people don't understand is that you cannot see a person's vertical when they are dunking. Their true vertical is without the ball.

It's the complete opposite. Since MJ and Vince are about the same height, where their head is in relation to the rim is the truest measure of how high they are actually jumping without considering wingspan and reach.

[ClipperRevival]

I've looked into who could jump higher between Jordan and Vince. And Vince, while having longer arms, could not jump anywhere near the the distance Jordan jumped, when attempting to do a free throw dunk. And believe me, if Vince could dunk from the free throw line, he would. He couldn't despite having longer arms. He's still the GOAT dunker though.

In terms of covering distance, yes, MJ could jump further away than Vince. But I am talking up straight up vertical.

[Droid101]

38 year old Jordan played better defense than Kobe in his big shit 06 season.
Uh, no. Not even a little.

[FKAri]

As for VC vs MJ leaping/athleticism:

As raw athletes they're similar in athletic power but MJ gets more speed while VC gets more strength out of the equation.

MJ was much more fundamentally sound allowing him to utilize his athleticism better (probably better than any other super athlete in NBA history)

VC:
stronger
similarly great body control in the air
slower off the dribble
much slower laterally
2 foot leaper almost exclusively (making in-game dunks a poorer measure of true vertical max than it already is)

MJ:
- slimmer frame
- quicker off the dribble (as a raw athlete since he had a slimmer frame as well as due to better footwork/handle)
- much much quicker laterally
- great body control in the air but also on his feet (also because of better footwork/handle)

[Mr Feeny]

http://i.imgur.com/dBqrjMU.jpg

^ Above, Michael Jordan at 36 (99-00).


Ahh, the absurdity from MJ stans.. Gilbert guncharge Areans probably thought MJ in 98 was 36. Dumbass fruitloop.


Yes, Arenas wouldn't have been able to put up 60 on MJ'S home court matched up against him. He sure did that against prime Kobrick :lebronamazed:

AGENT ZERO FOR THE WIN

[And1AllDay]

http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/292162-1/Kobe+Bryant+is+triple+teamed+as+he+goes+up+for+the +final+shot+vs+the+Bulls.JPG

Dat IQ

:bowdown:

[Mr Feeny]

http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/292162-1/Kobe+Bryant+is+triple+teamed+as+he+goes+up+for+the +final+shot+vs+the+Bulls.JPG

Dat IQ

:bowdown:

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/196fuarapyylmgif/k-bigpic.gif

[3ball]

http://i.imgur.com/BmIMYKo.gif


Since MJ and Vince are about the same height, where their head is in relation to the rim is the truest measure of how high they are actually jumping without considering wingspan and reach.



I can't think of once instance where Vince's head was at the rim - his head was always an a 2-4 inches below the rim.

Otoh, MJ has many instances where his head was at the rim or above the rim, even though there were FAR less camera angles in his day:


http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/12/16/ae/1216aedac0840356aee74ed3ec665aca.jpg
http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.com/ItemImages/000033/79c1d42e-a6c6-4207-adc6-d8b35af9ed25_lg.jpeg
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSP4VB6PPMQ1iuchVua-B0-Bt31IZxqt9qr_kJUWB-ASvtcj-DJ
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/umdatz/MJrimlevel_zps94088237.png
http://thebestten.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/michaeljordan1985.jpg?w=595&h=801
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/umdatz/MJEwing_zps36f2be72.jpg



Also, Jordan had a documented 48" vertical:

Here's an article by Tim Grover where he documented Jordan's vertical at his sports academy... http://www.si.com/edge/2014/10/16/tim-grover-talent-isnt-enough


Here is a study done by researchers at UNC on Jordan's vertical... http://www.jospt.org/doi/pdf/10.2519/jospt.1999.29.1.A1

[3ball]

I haven't seen ONE picture with Vince's head at the rim



There are no pictures showing Vince Carter's head at the rim


https://38.media.tumblr.com/bf0a68944606f0539f0ba4a83a01f220/tumblr_nlj5lt9ZWX1t7uuyso1_400.gif

[OldSchoolBBall]

Where do people get this idea that Carter's body control was anywhere near Jordan's? It's not even close. Before you post some video of VC doing a 360 layup (big deal), realize that many other players - none of whom are even considered to be in the same universe as Jordan body control wise, such as Nique and James Worthy - have also done 360 layups in game. Jordan was far more fluid and graceful than VC in any scenario on the court or in the air. Not even close imo.

[Kblaze8855]

Vince was pretty fluid and graceful homie....

http://24.media.tumblr.com/28f74661bf6a7fcff161d006a483dbae/tumblr_mqhrwtggQo1qzmyzeo1_500.gif


http://fat.gfycat.com/InsistentPerfumedBeauceron.gif

Nobody has a windmill so smooth.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Yes, but imo he has never exhibited the kind of fluidity, control and flexibility needed to make plays like these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMzj74R1I7E#t=0m35s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2UYzr-crMk#t=4m56s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsMLK3iABsY#t=0m51s

I've just seem VC make impressive layups FAR less frequently than Jordan, even when viewed as a percentage of the times they each got to the rim (since MJ got there more to begin with).

[Kblaze8855]

I feel like maybe you picked the wrong time frame on those clips if its supposed to be something Vince cant do. Jordan did things Vince couldnt...mostly because he was quicker...but I dont see anything there. Again...maybe I wasnt seeing what you intended.

But the idividual plays rarely make a point in these things anyway. Ive seen Vince do things Jordan didnt...doesnt mean he couldnt..it just means he didnt.

Two supreme athletes are gonna make spectacular plays nobody else makes over the course of a career. Most of them...plays they wont repeat themselves.

Rare is it anything that literally nobody else could do.

Some guys just move...unusually. Like Derrick Rose.

You wont match it exactly...but its not a "Nobody in the world can...." thing. Its just him being unique and making plays that wont be repeated due to the unpredictability of the game. Like most great players.

Vince Carter moved like gumby at times, probably had a legit 45 inch vertical on the move, and had huge hands to control the ball easily. Im not gonna say he CANT do a lot of things ive never seen him do just like I wont say it of MJ.

Both of them were capable of a lot of things that never went down exactly the way someone else did it.

[jstern]

I feel like maybe you picked the wrong time frame on those clips if its supposed to be something Vince cant do. Jordan did things Vince couldnt...mostly because he was quicker...but I dont see anything there. Again...maybe I wasnt seeing what you intended.

But the idividual plays rarely make a point in these things anyway. Ive seen Vince do things Jordan didnt...doesnt mean he couldnt..it just means he didnt.

Two supreme athletes are gonna make spectacular plays nobody else makes over the course of a career. Most of them...plays they wont repeat themselves.

Rare is it anything that literally nobody else could do.

Some guys just move...unusually. Like Derrick Rose.

You wont match it exactly...but its not a "Nobody in the world can...." thing. Its just him being unique and making plays that wont be repeated due to the unpredictability of the game. Like most great players.

Vince Carter moved like gumby at times, probably had a legit 45 inch vertical on the move, and had huge hands to control the ball easily. Im not gonna say he CANT do a lot of things ive never seen him do just like I wont say it of MJ.

Both of them were capable of a lot of things that never went down exactly the way someone else did it.

Smart post. Especially about the fact that there are plays/performances
that the athlete will never repeat again. I always felt that that's a point that people don't understand intuitively.

[Kblaze8855]

Thats always stood out to me as well. Someone posts a clip and says "Nobody else could do this...." when the person in question had never done it before themselves and never did it again with tens of thousands of chances.

Everyone does a hundred things they wont ever do again and nobody else will exactly match.

Unless you add some qualifiers like "Who else of this size..." that wipes out 99.9% of the people on Earth its hard to say nobody else possibly could.

They just wont....like the person who did it the first time wont do it again either.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Then why does VC have only a fraction of the impressive layups/finishes that Jordan does, even if you just look at it as a percentage of the times they got the the rim? I guess you can say he's not as creative (as distinct from actual body control)? I dunno...

[Kblaze8855]

And how exactly would you figure out that ratio?

Jordan has a lot more impressive layups because he went to the basket at almost every chance for years. There is no way to find an impressive layup to drives ratio.

If you can feel free to explain it.

Is someone tracking impressive layups somewhere?

[Kblaze8855]

And yes I would say that being creative is part of it as well.

If Jordan is a quicker thinker than someone else he might do something in a situation they wouldnt. But the issue of body control.....being fluid in the air....being able to leap well enough?

That would show in if the person couldnt do it if shown it and asked. And there is little either of them have done....I doubt the other could...if they were told to do that move.

VC may not have done the hand switching layup like Jordan in 91. I have no doubt he could if you asked him to go do it.

Jordan may not have jumped over a 7 footer...but I can think of a couple he almost jumped over. Put one in the way and ask him to do it....im sure he could.

He didnt....but I dont think its accurate to say he couldnt. Not about him and not about VC.

You cant prove it...but you cant prove much when you really think about it.

I cant prove Jordan could do a number of things I have no doubt he could.

[DCL]

http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/292162-1/Kobe+Bryant+is+triple+teamed+as+he+goes+up+for+the +final+shot+vs+the+Bulls.JPG

Dat IQ

:bowdown:

he has made worse gameplay decisions than that

[Kblaze8855]

Kobe is far from a dumb basketball player. Id say Kobe is damn near a basketball genius. He took some bad shots....as did every great player. Great players dont become great without the confidence that makes them take those shots at times.

How many times has Lebron jab stepped for 8 seconds then taken a contested 25 footer?

We pretending thats good basketball just because it goes it at times?

[Obama=ROY]

Kobe is far from a dumb basketball player. Id say Kobe is damn near a basketball genius. He took some bad shots....as did every great player. Great players dont become great without the confidence that makes them take those shots at times.

How many times has Lebron jab stepped for 8 seconds then taken a contested 25 footer?

We pretending thats good basketball just because it goes it at times?
Everybody's taken bad shots and make mistakes. That's not why Kobe's being called dumb. He's being called dumb for his decisions that contradicts the decision a high IQ person would make. i.e His teammates are open and he's ignoring them...many times. Not because he can't pass, most times it's a very easy pass, but he just...decides to take the bad shot. It's hard to call someone who makes that kind of decisions a high bball iq person.

[Dragonyeuw]

RE: the Vince/ MJ athleticism thing...

Vince started shying away from driving after he got injured in 2002 and 2003. His prime Raptor years featured a number of impressive layups. MJ overall was craftier around the basket.

I would agree that generally, MJ was quicker and moved better laterally, thus allowing him to setup moves better, but if we're talking strictly in-air prowess, both of them could probably approximate each others moves pretty well. The thing is, alot of these incredible athletic feats are situational and instictive. No two situations will ever present themselves the same way and even if they did, the same player may react differently in each instance As alluded to earlier.

[VeeCee15]

vince carter jumps higher than michael jordan..all his dunks on average his head way higher in relation to the rim. Also, VC can get his head OVEr the RIM on some dunks...for real, no camera tricks (ie. a low angle shot where if u jump a foot in the air ur head can look a foot above the rim).

Jordan was much smarter than Kobe, much stronger mentally. Jordan would not just keep jacking shot after shot STUPIDLY..he would access and adapt.

Jordan was also much stronger than kobe..phil jackson said kobe had small shoulders and lacked strength compared to mj. Also Kobe's hands are small..probably the same size as MY OWN HANDS (if not smaller lol).

Kobe has TERRIBLE BODY CONTROL also..cause he doesnt have the strength and athleticism..so any dunk or twist and turn he does in the air LOOKS FORCED cause he needs a lot of effort to pull those off.

[Dragonyeuw]

Kobe has TERRIBLE BODY CONTROL also..cause he doesnt have the strength and athleticism..so any dunk or twist and turn he does in the air LOOKS FORCED cause he needs a lot of effort to pull those off.

Wouldnt that mean he has great body control, since he needed it not having the same athletic explosiveness? If anything, Kobe's vertical was lacking compared to Vince and MJ, making it look like more effort was required. Still one of the GOAT ingame dunkers regardless....

[Magic 32]

I love MJ but...

2008 Kobe > 1999 Jordan

[ClipperRevival]

Double post.

[ClipperRevival]

I can't think of once instance where Vince's head was at the rim - his head was always an a 2-4 inches below the rim.

Otoh, MJ has many instances where his head was at the rim or above the rim, even though there were FAR less camera angles in his day:


http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/12/16/ae/1216aedac0840356aee74ed3ec665aca.jpg
http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.com/ItemImages/000033/79c1d42e-a6c6-4207-adc6-d8b35af9ed25_lg.jpeg
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSP4VB6PPMQ1iuchVua-B0-Bt31IZxqt9qr_kJUWB-ASvtcj-DJ
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/umdatz/MJrimlevel_zps94088237.png
http://thebestten.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/michaeljordan1985.jpg?w=595&h=801
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/umdatz/MJEwing_zps36f2be72.jpg



Also, Jordan had a documented 48" vertical:

Here's an article by Tim Grover where he documented Jordan's vertical at his sports academy... http://www.si.com/edge/2014/10/16/tim-grover-talent-isnt-enough


Here is a study done by researchers at UNC on Jordan's vertical... http://www.jospt.org/doi/pdf/10.2519/jospt.1999.29.1.A1

Only the 2nd pic is MJ's head near the rim. And even watching that dunk live you can see that his head was very close to the rim. And I never realized that he went that high.

http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.com/ItemImages/000033/79c1d42e-a6c6-4207-adc6-d8b35af9ed25_lg.jpeg

The rest have angles that don't allow you to see where his head is really at. It's closer than I thought. In terms of max height, it's close. But I think Vince consistently got higher on his dunks as he was mostly a two footed jumper who exploded vertically. MJ didn't just explode vertically but laterally. He did a lot more gliding and flying through the air and wasn't just a vertical jumper.

Take a look at the dunk on 8:52 and 9:10. He got very close to the rim. I would say about the same as MJ in the pic.
http://m.youtube.com/results?q=vince%20carter100&sm=3

[Dragonyeuw]

Only the 2nd pic is MJ's head near the rim. And even watching that dunk live you can see that his head was very close to the rim. And I never realized that he went that high.

http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.com/ItemImages/000033/79c1d42e-a6c6-4207-adc6-d8b35af9ed25_lg.jpeg

The rest have angles that don't allow you to see where his head is really at. It's closer than I thought. In terms of max height, it's close. But I think Vince consistently got higher on his dunks as he was mostly a two footed jumper who exploded vertically. MJ didn't just explode vertically but laterally. He did a lot more gliding and flying through the air and wasn't just a vertical jumper.

Take a look at the dunk on 8:52 and 9:10. He got very close to the rim. I would say about the same as MJ in the pic.
http://m.youtube.com/results?q=vince%20carter100&sm=3

Be prepared for a bandwidth-destroying 3ball retort.

[VeeCee15]

no, i meant kobe had TERRIBLE body control.

think of a gymnast. Kobe's like a gymnast with terrible form cause he can barely pull off the move. That is called TERRIBLE body control and you would get a score of 5/10.

[VeeCee15]

all those pics are pretty bad angles man of MJ.

Just look at any early vince carter WINDMILL ALLEYOOP video...either the one at rucker park or at his allstar game. HIS HEAD ALWAYS AT RIM level or above.

Honestly, he can easily get his head at rim..on most vince carter jumps he isn't even going all out.

here's an example (at 5/6 seconds his head is clearly over the rim): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMwYZ-WegYk

[Kobe_6/8]

Everybody's taken bad shots and make mistakes. That's not why Kobe's being called dumb. He's being called dumb for his decisions that contradicts the decision a high IQ person would make. i.e His teammates are open and he's ignoring them...many times. Not because he can't pass, most times it's a very easy pass, but he just...decides to take the bad shot. It's hard to call someone who makes that kind of decisions a high bball iq person.

Kobe decides to take the 'bad shot' because it's alpha. He sees that his teammates are there, but chooses to ignore them. The IQ is there. A 'bad shot' by Kobe is better than an open shot by Smush or Kwame.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Only on the internet is Kobe a dumb basketball player. Say that to any person involved with basketball and see how quickly you're dismissed. You don't become one of the greatest players ever by being dumb.

It's really silly. I mean, dudes are posting one frame of a last second desperation shot as some sort of evidence as Kobe being a low IQ player. Really?

[Dragonyeuw]

Kobe does have a great IQ, I dont think its on the level of MJ/Bird/Magic but its high. I think overconfidence/cockiness from time to time overrides the 'best basketball play', but its all part of his makeup as a player.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Everybody's taken bad shots and make mistakes. That's not why Kobe's being called dumb.

Ok so you say this...


His teammates are open and he's ignoring them...many times. Not because he can't pass, most times it's a very easy pass, but he just...decides to take the bad shot.

But then contradict yourself right after by saying Kobe is dumb for doing the thing you said he wasn't dumb for doing in the previous sentence. Despite the hyperbole in your scenario, Kobe is not the only great player to ever do this, or even do it on a consistent basis. It's just part of the game

[PsychoBe]

trolls gonna troll. is the "correct" basketball play passing to a wide open smush parker? or maybe a rolling kwame brown? oh no how about a prime sasha :roll: :roll: :roll:

idiot posters dont understand that sometimes the best possible play is to take the shot because your teammates want you to take the shot.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Gilbert Arenas is absolutely right.

[Obama=ROY]

Ok so you say this...



But then contradict yourself right after by saying Kobe is dumb for doing the thing you said he wasn't dumb for doing in the previous sentence. Despite the hyperbole in your scenario, Kobe is not the only great player to ever do this, or even do it on a consistent basis. It's just part of the game
It...didn't contradict. Are you dumb or just pretending not to understand the context.