How many rings would Lebron and Jordan have..

[Nash]

If they started their careers with most dominant player Shaq their first 7 years. Giving them:

- Somebody who scores 30 points by own merit, on top of whatever crazy production Lebron and Jordan usually provide.
- Somebody who was constantly double teamed, leaving Jordan and Lebron with the luxury of playing off of that.

[Dr Hawk]

Jordan would win in every single season he played.

LeBron not sure. He would have 5 ot 6 by now

[GreggPopazit]

Is Jordan still injured his 2nd season?

[Rooster]

If they started their careers with most dominant player Shaq their first 7 years. Giving them:

- Somebody who scores 30 points by own merit, on top of whatever crazy production Lebron and Jordan usually provide.
- Somebody who was constantly double teamed, leaving Jordan and Lebron with the luxury of playing off of that.

They would still be sidekicks to Shaq:confusedshrug:

Jordan has ego but maybe can adapt. I dunno if he can tolerate Shaq laziness and carefree attitude though.

Lebron is at his best with the ball in his hands so I dunno how his game can evolved with the offense starts with Shaq and lanes are clog because of Shaq.

[Heavincent]

People still use Shaq to discredit Kobe? Is this 2005?

Sorry, that argument doesn't work anymore.

[West-Side]

People still use Shaq to discredit Kobe? Is this 2005?

"One more than Shaq." - Kobe to Shaq, 2010.
:cheers:

[Mr Feeny]

People still use Shaq to discredit Kobe? Is this 2005?

Sorry, that argument doesn't work anymore.

It's really simple.

Shaq = 3 Rings as lead dog
Kobe = 2 rings as lead dog

:lebronamazed:

[West-Side]

It's really simple.

Shaq = 3 Rings as lead dog
Kobe = 2 rings as lead dog

:lebronamazed:

Kobe = 2 rings without another superstar
Shaq = 0 rings without another superstar

:cheers:

[Heavincent]

Shaq never won without an all time great SG.

[pegasus]

Jordan and Shaq would win every year, assuming they are both in prime. Shaq and Lebron would never win since they are both liabilities in late games. Shaq because of his free-throws, and Lebron because of his free-choking. Plus you never know what you can get out of Lebron with a dominant player. Wade was dominant in 2011 Finals and look what happened to his sidekick.

[imdaman99]

Lebron would still be 2-6. Shaq needed a perimeter player closing out the other team, which Lebron is not.

2 sidekick rings, still pretty good for Lebron. The Spurs had enough bodies to almost neutralize Shaq. And young Lebron was terrible against the Spurs. Kobe meanwhile made it a habit to dominate the Spurs...so who knows if the Shaq + Lebron even make it to the finals (are they in the East or West?)

Jordan + Shaq is a different animal. At least a 3peat. You don't think Shaq gets jealous of MJ? Shaq got jealous of his co-star everywhere he played. Penny than Kobe than Wade. Jordan would do a number on him.

[imnew09]

Shaq and Lebron?

Lol, who would've bailed out Shaq when he got fouled out? Especially in 4th quarter :roll: :roll:

Single coverage all day on Lebron, how is he going to pass the ball to shaq? :roll: :roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

We just watched the finals where Lebron couldn't play effectively with TT & Mozgof on the floor at the same time because of spacing issues and the only game where they actually fed Moz he put up 28/10 while Lebron got 20 points on 22 shots..

yet people still think he'd work great with Shaq clogging up the paint..

and seriously what is this 2005?

Kobe won 2 without Shaq, made 3 straight finals without Shaq and proved that Shaq needed Kobe more than Kobe ever needed Shaq

it's over, Kobe won

get over it loser

[TheMarkMadsen]

- Somebody who was constantly double teamed, leaving Jordan and Lebron with the luxury of playing off of that.


wow you mean bran might get to iso the entire time against single coverage..

that should work out great

:roll: :roll:

[Rooster]

Lebron would still be 2-6. Shaq needed a perimeter player closing out the other team, which Lebron is not.

2 sidekick rings, still pretty good for Lebron. The Spurs had enough bodies to almost neutralize Shaq. And young Lebron was terrible against the Spurs. Kobe meanwhile made it a habit to dominate the Spurs...so who knows if the Shaq + Lebron even make it to the finals (are they in the East or West?)

Jordan + Shaq is a different animal. At least a 3peat. You don't think Shaq gets jealous of MJ? Shaq got jealous of his co-star everywhere he played. Penny than Kobe than Wade. Jordan would do a number on him.

Lebron does not have the midrange game to dominate the Spurs like Kobe did. Spurs were able to neutralized Shaq but just could not contain Kobe.

[Bandito]

I was sure op would say if both MJ and Lebron didnt quit in their respective times in their career. MJ when he retired in 98 and 93 and Lebron in 2011,2007 and 2014 finals.

[Nash]

lol at all you guys, here is what Lebron would add to Shaq's mix that Kobe couldn't.


-Playmaking, more easy buckets for Shaq
-Rebounding
-points on better efficiency
-highest ppg in history in elimination games(lol at the choking label)
-versatility, play multiple positions and defend 1-4.
-Size and strength

yeah, Kobe's rings are so damn special when having Shaq scoring 30 points and winning fmvp's. Lebron has rings with nbody even averaging over 20.

[RidonKs]

7. probably more.

lebron's passing would have made up for any scoring deficit. imagine the havoc he would create while shaq is drawing double teams and distributing with his back to the bucket, looking over his shoulder. lebron slicing down the lane even for an offensive rebound is beyond scary. plug in athleticism and shooting and you have the best off ball team of all time.

[Lebronxrings]

both would be 8+.

Lebron could feed shaq and enhance his abilities being a magic johnson type passer and leader. Jordan could be a rich mans kobe in the duo and easily win.

[ArbitraryWater]

People still use Shaq to discredit Kobe? Is this 2005?

Sorry, that argument doesn't work anymore.

huh? why discrediting? Just because others would have won more?


I was sure op would say if both MJ and Lebron didnt quit in their respective times in their career. MJ when he retired in 98 and 93 and Lebron in 2011,2007 and 2014 finals.

damn, he quit in 2007 and 2014 aswell now? :lol

shits stackin' up

[34-24 Footwork]

Lebron and jordan would both be sidekicks.

Still not sure how Lebron and Shaq make it out of the western conference with a combination of awful Freethrow shooting and an unconfident perimeter player.

Lebrons unwillingness to take jumpshots would clog the lane up even more with guys sagging off lebron while shaq simultaneously being doubled.

[ArbitraryWater]

Lebron and jordan would both be sidekicks.

Still not sure how Lebron and Shaq make it out of the western conference with a combination of awful Freethrow shooting and an unconfident perimeter player.

Lebrons unwillingness to take jumpshots would clog the lane up even more with guys sagging off lebron while shaq simultaneously being doubled.


http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah306/MaleRuler/GIFs/c3b1a216eb_zpsfehhfnui.gif (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/MaleRuler/media/GIFs/c3b1a216eb_zpsfehhfnui.gif.html)

[TheMarkMadsen]

lol at all you guys, here is what Lebron would add to Shaq's mix that Kobe couldn't.


-Playmaking, more easy buckets for Shaq
-Rebounding
-points on better efficiency
-highest ppg in history in elimination games(lol at the choking label)
-versatility, play multiple positions and defend 1-4.
-Size and strength

yeah, Kobe's rings are so damn special when having Shaq scoring 30 points and winning fmvp's. Lebron has rings with nbody even averaging over 20.

No he doesn't.. (not ringS)

Kobe has 2 rings where no teammates averaged 20 or more in the playoffs though..

way to ether yourself

obviously you think not having a 20ppg scorer beside you while winning a title is impressive, Kobe's done that twice..

[TheMarkMadsen]

and the playoff efficiency argument LOL

when Lebron doesn't have the eastern conference all star team around him (Wade & Bosh) his career playoff FG% is.. 44.8%


Kobe's playoff FG% without Shaq = 50%, 46%, 48%, 46%, 46%, 45%, 44%

those last two years he was 32 & 33 years old

Lebron at 30 in the playoffs put up 30 ppg on 42%

Kobe at 30 in the playoffs put up 30ppg on 46%

[ArbitraryWater]

and the playoff efficiency argument LOL

when Lebron doesn't have the eastern conference all star team around him (Wade & Bosh) his career playoff FG% is.. 44.8%


Kobe's playoff FG% without Shaq = 50%, 46%, 48%, 46%, 46%, 45%, 44%

doesn't work like that.. can't just erase and take away his prime years for him then post the numbers of another player's prime years and compare them like it will show what you're looking for, a comparison of efficient scoring.

[TheMarkMadsen]

doesn't work like that.. can't just erase and take away his prime .

but we can just discount 8 years of Kobe's career...

riiight doe.. :oldlol: :oldlol:

and it simply shows that when he's not surrounded by all stars his effeciency goes way down.. went down 17% from last year to this year.. that isn't just all skill he lost or something..

plus since when was 30 not considered your prime LOL.. he was literally like 4 months older at the beginning of this year than he was last year..

people always say shit about Kobe having Shaq and how much that helped Kobe's numbers.. yet Kobe scored more ppg on better efficiency without Shaq soo yeah...

[ArbitraryWater]

but we can just discount 8 years of Kobe's career...

riiight doe.. :oldlol: :oldlol:

bro, who did that? I'll whoop his ass

[superteamtheory]

I don't see what we're trying to prove here exactly...
but...

LBJ? anywhere from 6/8 - 8/10.. No 2004 off court controversies might have helped that team focus and pull off the victory but I can't be sure the Pistons wouldn't win anyway vs. a Lakers roster lacking depth beyond its Big 2... I think his more team-oriented personality would have got him at least one more ring with the big fella even if it was just in 06 with Shaq staying in L.A. that long... But down the line things wouldn't be much different than with Kobe but who knows, maybe Kobe did some scare some free agents away from L.A., in which case Bron might have pulled out one more ring late.. I say he at least gets 1 more ring maybe more but I feel like this shouldn't be held against Kobe... At the end of the day, Kobe is an amazing MJ-like talent and Lakers management should have been able to win with him one way or another no matter what.

MJ? Probably 8. I wouldn't write off LBJ's prospects (or Kobe's MJ-likeness) but I wouldn't bet against MJ winning most the years from 2000-2010.. After that, as he gets older, if the group of guys isn't right, Lakers as a team will run into the same problems against Mavericks, Thunder, Spurs... to say nothing of the Heat if he gets past those teams...

I think some of the questions we're really searching for here is this...

How does MJ do with the exact same falling apart Heat team in 2014 vs. Spurs ...
&
How does LBJ (after getting acquainted to 90's style) do with those Bulls in the 90's?
&
How does Kobe do with the Cavs' 2015 lottery team, or their 2009 lottery team, or their 2010 lottery team ... etc.

[AnaheimLakers24]

Lebron only has 2 rings and its 2015

[3ball]

:facepalm

[3ball]

Replace Pippen with Shaq?

:wtf:

MJ/Shaq win every year of their respective careers until they get really old..

[TheMarkMadsen]

I don't see what we're trying to prove here exactly...
but...

LBJ? anywhere from 6/8 - 8/10..

lmao

so now rookie lebron who took 20 shots to score 21 points per game, had absolutly no jump shot and no defense is going to be show up in the finals 2 years in a row against Jordan and play well enough for the Lakers to win b2b :roll: :roll:

first 7 years was the Op's premise..

97, 98, 99, 00, 01, 02, 03,

you can already throw out 97, 98..



can you imagine the spacing issued with Lebron/Shaq.. i mean ffs we are talking about 04-11 Lebron.. we are talking about a dude who had no jump shot..

The Lakers won 3 straight rings because they not only dominated the paint but dominated from the mid range game as well.. Lebron simply doesn't have that ability in his first 7 years, he'd be forced to shoot way more jumpers as no coach is going to allow prime Shaq to clear out the lane so Lebron can dribble around for 22 seconds and then drive..

Lebron also wasn't very good defensively until the playoffs in 08, and 09 was the first season he played consistently good defense..

not to mention that a 21 & 22 year old Kobe led the entire league in 4th quarter playoff scoring in 01, 02 and was insanely clutch in 2000 where he hit multiple game winners and had a game 7 in the WCF where he had more points, more rebounds, more assist, more steals and more blocks than Shaq something I can't see a 20 year old Lebron doing...

traditional big men just don't play well with Lebron, we saw it in the finals when Blatt was forced to not play Mozgof & TT together due to the spacing issues it created for Lebron..

and last but not least Lebron isn't even close to being as good off ball as Kobe is and that would have been their ultimate downfall if he played on those Lakers teams..

[ArbitraryWater]

2004 Bron >>> 97 Kobe
2005 Bron >>> 98 Kobe
2006 Bron >>> 99 Kobe
2007 Bron >> 2000 Kobe
2001 Kobe > 2008 Bron
2009 Bron >>>> 2002 Kobe
2010 Bron >> 2003 Kobe
2011 Bron >> 2004 Kobe

Is this really gonna be argued? LeBron was just a much better player straight outta high school... 5+ Rings.

[STATUTORY]

:roll: who was gonna bail out Shaq in the 4th quarter? Lebron? can't even make open jumpers :roll:

[Cocaine80s]

2004 Bron >>> 97 Kobe
2005 Bron >>> 98 Kobe
2006 Bron >>> 99 Kobe
2007 Bron >> 2000 Kobe
2001 Kobe > 2008 Bron
2009 Bron >>>> 2002 Kobe
2010 Bron >> 2003 Kobe
2011 Bron >> 2004 Kobe

Is this really gonna be argued? LeBron was just a much better player straight outta high school... 5+ Rings.
This.

[superteamtheory]

first 7 years was the Op's premise..

97, 98, 99, 00, 01, 02, 03

My bad. I didn't read that, thought we were talking whole careers...

Okay, well then... No way LBJ or MJ do any better the first three years... I do think both still would have threepeated tho...

If everybody's healthy in 03, which wasn't the case for Kobe, I think all three -- MJ, Kobe, Bron -- and Shaq do it again that year.. But the only guy of the three I'm sure at that age could have pulled off 04 and fivepeated is MJ... LeBron maybe but it'd be a toss up in a game 7 so let's be pessimistic and say no..

As to your Shaq-Bron spacing/shooting problems: Yeah, sure, Zen Master wouldn't be able to figure that one out... They'd find a way.. (Also you're underselling Bron's jumpshot like of course all y'all will... He was able to make jumpers from 08-2014... It's only in 2015 it went cold.. I agree he's not Kobe out there but he's got a jumper.. He uses it lots..)

To me the bigger thing about those early years is, while there are some other strong teams, there's no other team quite strong enough to take down a Shaq+anothertop10 duo -- not until 2004 Pistons or 2005 Spurs come along and Mavericks get stronger and the Celtics get their Big 3...

(( Later on tho... MJorLBJ wouldn't have run Shaq out of town, they wouldn't have won in 05 (Spurs were too strong that year) but with some retooling would have got back in the weaker 06 year.. Beyond that it would be similar to what happened with Kobe -- 2008 tho MJ probably would have won in a game 7.. I'm not sure if Bron would have been as successful as Kobe later on tho, so that's where I get the 6-8 with an uncertain/doubtful slash.. ))

[Hey Yo]

but we can just discount 8 years of Kobe's career...

riiight doe.. :oldlol: :oldlol:

and it simply shows that when he's not surrounded by all stars his effeciency goes way down.. went down 17% from last year to this year.. that isn't just all skill he lost or something..

plus since when was 30 not considered your prime LOL.. he was literally like 4 months older at the beginning of this year than he was last year..

people always say shit about Kobe having Shaq and how much that helped Kobe's numbers.. yet Kobe scored more ppg on better efficiency without Shaq soo yeah...
Considering that you've basically been the first option for your team, in just about every facet, since you was 18yrs old. Plus not missing the playoffs since 2005, playing passed the first round ever since and 5 straight Finals appearances.

To suggest that he's still in his prime after 12yrs and with the above mileage, is absurd.

Wait..you mean Kobe scored more after becoming first option???? Who would have thunk?

[Real14]

How many rings would Jordan, Kobe, and Melo have if they played with 2 all star starters who's in the top 10, STILL in their prime, and not injured with weak ass conference, and 3 point specialists like ray allen backing them up???

[Wade's Rings]

2004 Bron >>> 97 Kobe
2005 Bron >>> 98 Kobe
2006 Bron >>> 99 Kobe
2007 Bron >> 2000 Kobe
2001 Kobe > 2008 Bron
2009 Bron >>>> 2002 Kobe
2010 Bron >> 2003 Kobe
2011 Bron >> 2004 Kobe

Is this really gonna be argued? LeBron was just a much better player straight outta high school... 5+ Rings.

The spacing wouldn't work with Bron as well because of him not having a jumpshot..unless Phil somehow made him develop one.

[SpecialQue]

OP getting his shit pushed in deep.

I'm laughing my ass off at the idea of Shaq and Jordan co-existing. Jordan punched his teammates for not meeting his standards. You really think he's going to put up with lazy-ass Shaq starting the season overweight?

[Droid101]

lol. Kobe could shoot from outside, rookie (and most of his career) LeBron cannot. End of discussion.

[tpols]

let's break it down by player..

Mj

Best case scenario

They 3 peat and mj somehow wins all fmvps.. just like in 93, he retires due to lack of challenge. Dominating the league, winning multiple fmvps over peak mde shaq, what else is there to do? Both go their separate ways, Shaq to team hop to another superstar wings team, Mj to take up some obscure sport from his childhood to rekindle that competitive fire.

Worst case scenario

Mj and Shaq dominate with each other to start, but eventually, due to non existent big men in the east Shaq wins an fmvps.. Jordan in a bout of jealousy similar to kome eventually breaks the offense, but unlike bryant, actually wins a fmvp himself due to being more dominant. Shaq is of course distraught, and enraged. A violent breakup ensues and both bicker over sidekick labels.


Lebron

Best case scenario

Lebron averages 22/10/8 to shaq's 30/15.. LA wins titles indefintely, winning 6 finals in their 8 first years before shaq starts to exit his prime.. lebron wins 2 fmvps out of the 6 rings and is labeled scottie pippin supreme and cracks top 20 GOAT list.

Worst case scenario

Lebron after losing a fmvp to shaq decides to go 2011 mode in the subsequent finals. He is losing endorsements and threatened to go from king James to prince James. Sensing the potential revenue and legacy disaster he decides to team up with the early 2000s kings.. leaving shaq to ponder a new power move to counter the collusion. Shaq meets with mark Cuban and signs a mega deal.. nash/dirk/shaq reel off the first 4 peat since bills Russell Celtics

[kamil]

Kobe = 2 rings without another superstar
Shaq = 0 rings without another superstar

:cheers:

Wade wasn't a superstar?

This is news to me.

[knicksman]

it depends. if its jordan being the man-6/6. But if its bran-2/6.

[nzahir]

Kobe = 2 rings without another superstar
Shaq = 0 rings without another superstar

:cheers:
3 fmvps>2 fmvps
End of discussion

[WayOfWade]

2004 Bron >>> 97 Kobe
2005 Bron >>> 98 Kobe
2006 Bron >>> 99 Kobe
2007 Bron >> 2000 Kobe
2001 Kobe > 2008 Bron
2009 Bron >>>> 2002 Kobe
2010 Bron >> 2003 Kobe
2011 Bron >> 2004 Kobe

Is this really gonna be argued? LeBron was just a much better player straight outta high school... 5+ Rings.
Wow, very simple logic. If LeBron was better each and every year, he'd win more. And here's something crazy, LeBron actually sports a better 3P% career wise than Kobe, so technically he'd spread the floor better for Shaq. Having a 3-point shooting superstar paired with Shaq isn't necessary anyways, as Wade showed us 2005-2007

[scandisk_]

I really don't think MJ and Shaq would co-exist naturally for long (and I mean 3 years or so). As a player and a teammate MJ has ridiculous standards and a fakking ego the size of the earth. They might win a thing or two but when both player's ego kick in, it'll be like the Kobe-Shaq fiasco.

On the other hand Bran and Shaq would co-exist beautifully, bran's ego ain't like Mike's or kobe's. He'll prolly have Shaq take all the glory for the early years and he'll have his later on.

[Angel Face]

Considering Shaq was Lazy, MJ would be on his face jawing him every day which Shaq won't accept well. Lead dog with another lead dog don't co-exist well. But if somehow egos would be managed. I could see these two winning many chips as much as they like with MJ being the FMVP every time.

For LeBron, this will end bad, Lebron doesn't play well without spacing and with his broken Jump shot, constant ball hogging "meaning needing the ball too much time in his hands to produce" and him being unclutch, both him and Shaq will be bad in late crucial games. Also, both are not known to be loyal to their teams, good luck keeping them for long years.

[nzahir]

Wow, very simple logic. If LeBron was better each and every year, he'd win more. And here's something crazy, LeBron actually sports a better 3P% career wise than Kobe, so technically he'd spread the floor better for Shaq. Having a 3-point shooting superstar paired with Shaq isn't necessary anyways, as Wade showed us 2005-2007
:applause:
Most idiots though dont need know that lebron has a better 3pt% than kobe

[TheMarkMadsen]

:applause:
Most idiots though dont need know that lebron has a better 3pt% than kobe

not in the playoffs

and we're are talking about a player (lebron) who at his absolute best had defense's game planning to give him wide open shots in the finals..

[ArbitraryWater]

Wow, very simple logic. If LeBron was better each and every year, he'd win more. And here's something crazy, LeBron actually sports a better 3P% career wise than Kobe, so technically he'd spread the floor better for Shaq. Having a 3-point shooting superstar paired with Shaq isn't necessary anyways, as Wade showed us 2005-2007

It really is that easy.. if you're a noticeably better player, that "jumpshot doe" bullshit won't cut it.