Is Wade the GOAT Player without an MVP?

[Wade's Rings]

Or would you take West? Kidd? Stockton? Isiah? Ewing? Pippen? Baylor?

[JT123]

:oldlol: When Wade wins a playoff series without Shaq or Lebron maybe we can talk.

[Fallen Angel]

Stockton or West

[ShawkFactory]

Stockton or West
Better than Stockton without question

[Showtime2001]

:oldlol: When Wade wins a playoff series without Shaq or Lebron maybe we can talk.
He already has you idiot in fact he did his rookie season....:rolleyes:

[Fallen Angel]

Better than Stockton without question
No.

[Marchesk]

West is close to top 10. He has a playoff average of 29 ppg for his career and 30 in the finals.

[SHAQisGOAT]

On my all-time list I got...

West
Hondo
Baylor/Wade
then you got dudes like Zeke, Barry, Pip...
(would've been different in terms of peaks/primes though)

But Dwayne can definitely be argued as the GOAT player without a MVP, he has a great case.

[Wade's Rings]

:oldlol: When Wade wins a playoff series without Shaq or Lebron maybe we can talk.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2004-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-hornets-vs-heat.html

Including this Game Winner in Game 1

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view8/20150731/5235908/wade-gamewinner-vs-hornets-o.gif

and this Game Winner in Game 5

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/20150731/5235911/gamewinner-vs-hornets-2004-game-5-o.gif


You're trolling is becoming even more pathetic :oldlol:

[superteamtheory]

lots of guys:

West… < how can that be?? unforgivable…
Zeke… < how can that be?? unforgivable…

^ so those 2 are def. the greatest...

And then I'd say: Ewing, Drexler, Payton, Kidd and Rick Barry back in the day… are five more baffling ones since they so clearly were MVPs for their team…
but got robbed due to playing in era with another top 10 player and the resulting pileup of competition..

I think Reggie Miller should have got it with the 14 game winners he hit in 98 and as a sentimental nod to his importance to the Pacers over the years... but that's just me. They instead gave it to Jordan's victory lap..

Guys like Stockton, Pippen, Baylor, who were more the secondary star in their duos, I can see why they never got one.. I think Wade, like Reggie, falls between guys like that and other clearer upper half of top 50 greats…

Ps. ShaqIsGOAT is right tho, John Hondo also deserved one.. Was one of the main two men on 70's Celts that took down Oscar-Kareem... Just never worked out that way as with Kobe...

[stalkerforlife]

:oldlol: When Wade wins a playoff series without Shaq or Lebron maybe we can talk.

:facepalm

:biggums:

Not too many people can ether themselves without assistance.

[Fallen Angel]

John Stockton's record for assists and steals tell the story.

http://www.landofbasketball.com/nba_players/s/john_stockton.htm

His awards and honors section is amazingly consistent.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I specifically remember the 09 season and believing Wade deserved the MVP

he got robbed imo

[TripleA]

Wade is better than Stockton. considerably
People argued at some points that he was better than Kobe.
He is a all-time great.

West has great argument to be better and Hondo I don't have info to argue.

[stalkerforlife]

Stockton played all 82 games 16 times. :biggums:

[Droid101]

JT ruined, as usual.

[TheMarkMadsen]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2004-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-hornets-vs-heat.html

Including this Game Winner in Game 1

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view8/20150731/5235908/wade-gamewinner-vs-hornets-o.gif

and this Game Winner in Game 5

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/20150731/5235911/gamewinner-vs-hornets-2004-game-5-o.gif


You're trolling is becoming even more pathetic :oldlol:

lebron needed another two years to even make the playoffs

:oldlol: :oldlol:

[Young X]

Yes he is, either him or West.

We're talking about a dude who in his prime was ranked right up there with Kobe and Lebron. Alot of the other players named in this thread were never at that level.

[Fallen Angel]

You know what, I'll take back what I implied. Wade is a better player than Stockton, but Stockton is still undeniably more accomplished.

[TheMarkMadsen]

You know what, I'll take back what I implied. Wade is a better player than Stockton, but Stockton is still undeniably more accomplished.


rannngzz doe

[imdaman99]

What about Ewing? He was good for longer than Wade...but yeah I guess I'd pick Wade as well. Wade stuck in an era where the media worships someone. Ah well, 3>2

[Fallen Angel]

rannngzz doe
Debatable. Depends on how you value rings, rings as a role player, and how you value All-Time records.

[Wade's Rings]

What about Ewing? He was good for longer than Wade...but yeah I guess I'd pick Wade as well. Wade stuck in an era where the media worships someone. Ah well, 3>2

Ewing has 0 Rings.

[imdaman99]

Ewing has 0 Rings.
I already conceded to Wade, fool. Did Wade or Lebron ever have to go through the GOAT to win rings? NO? OK thanks for playing.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

No, but has he finally become the highest paid player on his team yet?

[Cold soul]

You could say that yeah along with Jerry West.

[Wade's Rings]

I already conceded to Wade, fool. Did Wade or Lebron ever have to go through the GOAT to win rings? NO? OK thanks for playing.

I wasn't bragging or getting on Ewing. You said "3>2" and I was pointing out Ewing had 0 Rings unless you were talking about another Player.

[Wade's Rings]

lebron needed another two years to even make the playoffs

:oldlol: :oldlol:

LeGOAT doe :oldlol:

[greatest-ever]

I'd say it's West but Wade is easily 2nd. I don't get all the mentions of guys like Ewing, Stockton etc, they were great but Wade is flat out better than both.

[imdaman99]

I wasn't bragging or getting on Ewing. You said "3>2" and I was pointing out Ewing had 0 Rings unless you were talking about another Player.
I was talking about the guy that won all those MVP trophies over Wade.

[Wade's Rings]

I was talking about the guy that won all those MVP trophies over Wade.

Oh ok

[Hey Yo]

LeGOAT doe :oldlol:
Carried D-cline to his 2nd and 3rd ring.

[bdreason]

I'd go with West or Zeke over Wade.

CP3 will probably be in the conversation as well.

[WayOfWade]

I'd go with West or Zeke over Wade.

CP3 will probably be in the conversation as well.
if CP3 can win at least one ring, then you can have a legitimate case there. west is about even with Wade, and Zeke is interesting. After all, Zeke did take down MJ on multiple occasions (albeit with a weaker Bulls team, but still). I'd say it's definitely between those 3, with my personal order being West, then Wade, then Zeke. If the Heat somehow manage to pull a title out of their butts this season, then I'll put Wade past West. That's just a long-shot dream of mine though.

[superteamtheory]

I'd go with West or Zeke over Wade.

CP3 will probably be in the conversation as well.

CP3 could get one this year if Clippers finish with the league's best record... that's all it would take with the wacky voting tradition of most valuable records..

CP3 should have one too but again, so much competition, there's always gonna be at least one guy that gets left out...

[FreezingTsmoove]

:oldlol: When Wade wins a playoff series without Shaq or Lebron maybe we can talk.

****ing retard he has

[TheMarkMadsen]

Carried D-cline to his 2nd and 3rd ring.

Wade averaged 23/4/6 in the 2012 playoffs


20/4/4 in the 2013 finals

[TheMarkMadsen]

Debatable. Depends on how you value rings, rings as a role player, and how you value All-Time records.

Wade has his FMVP & another ring where he averaged 23/5/6

[Bankaii]

Wade averaged 23/4/6 in the 2012 playoffs


20/4/4 in the 2013 finals
Why'd you use the playoffs for 2012, but not 2013?
Is it because his 2013 playoff numbers were worse and didn't fit you agenda?

[TheMarkMadsen]

Why'd you use the playoffs for 2012, but not 2013?
Is it because his 2013 playoff numbers were worse and didn't fit you agenda?

he didn't have his best playoffs in 2013, didn't play that well, but played very well in the finals..

dropping 23/5/6 in 2012 isn't getting carried..

how come you aren't calling out the idiot who claimed Wade got carried in 2012.. let me guess.. doesn't fit your agenda of "bran did everything by himself"

what's more agenda driven.. claiming a guy who had multiple all star teammates including (Wade who averaged 23/5/6 in the playoffs, and 20/4/4 in the next finals) carried the team..

or claiming Wade was a pretty damn good second option, especially in 2012 when he was still top 10 in the league and putting up elite numbers..

you choose..

[Wade's Rings]

Carried D-cline to his 2nd and 3rd ring.


Wades production after 2011 is not as bad as you guys make it seem.

Some of you saying Wade was already broken down in 2012.
22/5/5 regular season
23/5/4 playoffs
23/6/5 Finals.

Not to mention, that Wade's playoff numbers were dipped because the Heat completely blew out the Knicks, which limited his minutes, shots, and necessity to shoot. If that series was closer Wades averaging 22-24 in that series not 19 PPG. He didn't have a single weak game that series and wasn't neccessary to produce more.

If you looked at the playoffs #s and saw 24/5/5 or 25/5/4 you would immediatly say he played like a superstar was just a 2nd option. The difference being 1-2 PPG. Mostly due to the Knicks series.

Vs Indiana aside from the disasterous 5 point game, Wade was spectacular with Bosh out. 26/6/3 as a second option. Down 1-2 at Indiana a 30/9/6 game. 28 points in a blowout game 5. 41/10/3/2 in game 6 on the road to close out the Pacers.


In the ECF vs the Celtics for the first 5 games Wade was trapped and doubled on any pick and roll. Doc Rivers chose to double and trap Wade after seeing Wade destroy Indiana in the last 3 games. Yet Wade still had a 22/5/5 series which is great for a "broken down second option"
17 point game 6 was his weakest game that series with Miami blowing out Boston due to Lebrons legendary game.


23/6/5 in the finals. Aside from the 19 point game in game 1 (weakest game of the finals) he had 24,25,25,20 point games. As a second option once again "broken down" he was very consistent.

2013 Wade averages 21/5/5/1/1 on 51% shooting in the regular season, and was amazing during the win streak.
Obviously he was very injured during the playoffs, but in the first 2 rounds once again his production, shots, and minutes weren't required as the Heat steamrolled through the Bucks and Bulls.

He was very poor in the 2013 ECF, but finished strong with a 20/5/4 NBA Finals when needed the most. 32/6/4 in a must win game 4, 25/10 in game 5 and 23/10 in a closeout game 7.

2014 Wade averaged 19/5/5 on 54% FG which are still strong 2nd option #s. He wasn't really injured as much, the Heat coaching stuff just assigned him the most retarded resting schedule ever, which made him out of shape.

Aside from the finals, where he was disasterous, he had a good run for the first 3 rounds.

Was at about 20/5/4 for the first 3 rounds. Once again numbers lowered by the Charlotte series where Wades production wasn't neccessary as the Bobcats got easily swept. He had a strong ECF and a strong 2nd round.

Was he injured? Yes. Was the 2013 playoff horrendous until the finals? Yes. But 2012 he was still a borderline superstar, and a top 10 player in 2013 regular season.

D-clined doe :bowdown:

[PistonsFan#21]

:oldlol: When Wade wins a playoff series without Shaq or Lebron maybe we can talk.

:biggums:

Where is the greatest ISH slays of all time thread? This guy just commited suicide by slaying himself in front of everyone

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

The nikkas saying Stockton or Zeke must be trolling. Wade is top 20 alltime those guys especially stock has a longevity/durability advantage but Wade was tiers better in his prime/ peak. Only one that has an argument is jerry west

[Bankaii]

he didn't have his best playoffs in 2013, didn't play that well, but played very well in the finals..

dropping 23/5/6 in 2012 isn't getting carried..

how come you aren't calling out the idiot who claimed Wade got carried in 2012.. let me guess.. doesn't fit your agenda of "bran did everything by himself"

what's more agenda driven.. claiming a guy who had multiple all star teammates including (Wade who averaged 23/5/6 in the playoffs, and 20/4/4 in the next finals) carried the team..

or claiming Wade was a pretty damn good second option, especially in 2012 when he was still top 10 in the league and putting up elite numbers..

you choose..
Because that is an obvious troll post, there's no point in trying to talk to someone like that. But you were actually serious, and posted stats specifically to fit your agenda. Wade was obviously a great sidekick except for the 2014 Finals(payback for 2011).

And I never said "Lebron did it all alone". Just because someone calls you out for an agenda doesn't mean I'm some crazed Bron stan.

[superteamtheory]

The nikkas saying Stockton or Zeke must be trolling. Wade is top 20 alltime those guys especially stock has a longevity/durability advantage but Wade was tiers better in his prime/ peak. Only one that has an argument is jerry west

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxF8LERU5CI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3OY8osx0I

one of the 8 best of the 80's, but yeah, we're just trolling..

also the guy who invented the "Jordan Rules" defence that helped them to make 3 Finals, then they won 2 championships...

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxF8LERU5CI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3OY8osx0I

one of the 8 best of the 80's, but yeah, we're just trolling..

also the guy who invented the "Jordan Rules" defence that helped them to make 3 Finals, then they won 2 championships...
lol Zeke was arguably not even their most important player when they won championships.

LMFAO fck outta here with Zeke inventing Jordan Rules. Chuck Daly, Laimbeer, Rodman, Dumars played a much huger factor on defense than Zeke not even close.

Zeke is so overrated jeebus. when prime Isiah was playing voters considered him to be a borderline allNBA player who usually aint make top10 in MVP votings. Isiah was a very good player, but happened to be on a team without a superstar and later he got all the credit for their success despite not standing out among his teammates. 20 years later u nikkas forgot or revising history that Isiah was losing to guys like Tripucka or Dale Ellis in MVP votings. Dumars was getting allNBA slots over him in 89 and 90. At their peak he wasnt even better than Mark Price not on the level of KJ, in 84 arguably his 2nd best season Jim fcking Paxson made AllNBA 2nd over him:roll: :roll: hes been romanticized cuz nikkas cant realize it was their GOAT level defense that won chips NOT Isiah but since he was popular, a lil man with a game everyone loved he got most of credit

Zeke was carried by his defense during those chips and those are facts. In 91 with him injured they barely missed a beat. Very good player top 10 PG alltime, not even close in the same tier as Wade

[Lebron23]

Jerry West

[Wade's Rings]

Stockton or West


You could say that yeah along with Jerry West.


I'd say it's West but Wade is easily 2nd. I don't get all the mentions of guys like Ewing, Stockton etc, they were great but Wade is flat out better than both.


I'd go with West or Zeke over Wade.

CP3 will probably be in the conversation as well.


Jerry West

Wade > West IMO. Based on the Pace & Wade's Minutes Per Game his numbers this year would've looked like 32/5/7 shooting 47% in that Era. Jerry West's Career Stats are 27/6/7 shooting 48%.

[plowking]

Wade averaged 23/4/6 in the 2012 playoffs


20/4/4 in the 2013 finals

Wade was terrible in the 2013 playoffs, and the finals outside of one or two games. Not a lot of Heat fans want to hear it, but he was the definition of a player going out there and just putting up stats most games. I say that as someone who has watched him his whole career, and is a huge Wade fan, and Heat fan.

As for the OP's question, maybe. Baylor and West have great cases, and then the only other one I can think of is Ewing. People will underrate him and clearly forget how good he was before his injuries. There is a reason he was one of the most highly touted big men ever.

[Lodi Dodi]

Isiah- even though he's an ATG his most dominating individual seasons was when the Pistons enjoyed only modest team success. Even though he was clutch and a solid defender, he never was an MVP level player.

Jerry West-The Logo is imo the best player without an MVP.

Stockton-GOAT pure PG, but definitely not dominating enough individually (scoring) to warrant a MVP award.

Wade-A close second. Imo he had a few more dominant seasons than West and a better defender but injuries prevented him from being a perennial threat for MVP.

[Marchesk]

Wade > West IMO. Based on the Pace & Wade's Minutes Per Game his numbers this year would've looked like 32/5/7 shooting 47% in that Era. Jerry West's Career Stats are 27/6/7 shooting 48%.

Yeah, but he had Baylor on his team to share the ball with. Prime Baylor was a scoring machine. West had 30 ppg finals average in nine series.

[Prime_Shaq]

Robbed in 2009, but on topic I think Zeke is quite underrated in this regard.

[red1]

Yes, absolutely.

[bdreason]

People underrate peak Zeke. We're talking about a guy who averaged 21/5/14 in his prime. Averaged a near double-double for his career (19/9) despite coasting through the final years of his career. Zeke was essentially CP3, only taller, tougher, and more clutch. Hard to win MVP's when the league is gushing over Bird and Magic... and then came MJ.

[Timmy D for MVP]

I think the only person I'd slot over him is Jerry West. But an argument can be made. I also wouldn't be upset if you went with Zeke.

That's an interesting question.