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View Full Version : Multiple people confirm Lebron does not have a quick first step



JohnMax
08-01-2015, 09:07 AM
Gilbert Arenas (https://instagram.com/p/5vjAp4PPwB/)

James is more like a train then a cheetah in movement.. his first 2 steps aren't very powerful so this hurt him on iso's and the ability to blow pass players from standstill position.

STATUTORY (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=345039)

Lebron James is probably one of the fastest player in the league when he's at full stride in top speed, but his acceleration or first step is pedestrian at best.

4Shoposite (http://niketalk.com/t/295042/why-dont-sportcasters-keep-it-real-about-lebron)

Why don't sportcasters keep it real about Lebron?

I have watched ball my life entire life...I get in tons of arguments over this and I'm just trying to find out how many fellow NTers REALLY be watching the game.

Lebron James has one of the weakest first steps I've ever seen, and he has very little pure scoring instincts. (IMHO Danny Granger has the worse first step in NBA history). Bron is not a pass/team oriented player solely becaue of his nature...he's that way because he secretly knows his weakness. I believe the worse thing you can tell a perimeter player is that they don't have a first step. smiley: laugh

But I'm sorry. It's the truth. I've never seen a star player get the type of recognition he does with having such an obvious weakness that seems to go unnoticed in popular programming. For once I wish a guy like JVG would say..."It's obvious that Lebron really can't beat his man one on one." Just once! Sometimes I wanna email Skip Bayless just to show this dude the light so he can have more fire power.

Dude literally can't score in the halfcourt without using a 'pick' 95% of the time and that's why when he drives in the halfcourt his shot looks soooooo ugly. Dude be praying for the defender to latch on where he can get a foul. And I KNOW coach Spolestra knows this because more and more in critical situations he sending Lebron towards a pick hoping for a switch to a much taller and slower defender. smiley: nerdsmiley: nerd A friend of mine is a big Lebron fan and not until recently did he really start paying attention to this dude's true lack of halfcourt scoring and first step. "Dude scores over 30 points a game!" he would say...Then I told him the next two Heat games, we'll make a bet and count how many times in the halfcourt Bron scores by seriously breaking down his own man versus getting points from the line, in the fastbreak, putbacks, or low percentage bail out fall back jumpers. Like I said, dude became a believer after just two games and now says he can't even look at LeBron the same way. We watched yesterday's game at a bar and dude had the smiley: ohwell look on for nearly the entire game smiley: roll And they were winning! Dude's disgusted smiley: laugh

Before the stonefaces and comments about how basketball is a team game and what not...I will say that for the most part, I agree. I am not a Lebron hater, but the reason Lebron is and will never be the true definition of a clutch player is because of this obvious weakness. If Lebron doesn't seriously get in the gym and create a post game, it's only going to get worse. TMac II (Another player who people never realized needed picks to get by his man)

Johnmax (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=360801)

A lot of observers conflate top speed and first step.

Lebron is probably one of the fastest player in the league when he's at full stride in top speed, but his acceleration or first step is pedestrian at best. This kid needed a pick and roll as soon as he got into the league because he never had the blow by first step of a guy like Kobe.

a lot of guys have both attributes. but u also have guys on opposite end of spectrum like Jeremy Lin, who has great acceleration from standstill but definitely below average in speed.

This is the difference between quickness and raw speed. You can spot the difference pretty easily.

Quickness/elite first step:

http://media.giphy.com/media/tBb19fh1Bn4utxzUHMA/giphy.gif

Power/speed:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2316015/ledunk.gif
http://i.imgur.com/79c7dOg.png

Lebron23
08-01-2015, 09:08 AM
You are trying way to hard to be 3ball.

RRR3
08-01-2015, 09:09 AM
Everyone knows this you ****

Once he gets going he is one of the fastest players ever though.

Megabox!
08-01-2015, 09:11 AM
Young Lebron use to always blow past defenders with his 1st step

TripleA
08-01-2015, 09:12 AM
How many people who are 6'8 270 have quick first step. Kyrie is quicker because he is much smaller.

andgar923
08-01-2015, 09:24 AM
How many people who are 6'8 270 have quick first step. Kyrie is quicker because he is much smaller.
There's fat f*cks out there with quick 1st steps. I've seen the slowest unathletic old guys beat people with their first step consistently.

1st step is different than speed as noted by OP.

A good NBA example of a big guy with quick 1st step is Shaq. He used to beat players smaller than him with his first step. Zack Randolph destroys Griffin with quick 1 step moves, I remember Chris Gatling would beat people with quick moves and first steps as well.

STATUTORY
08-01-2015, 09:44 AM
How many people who are 6'8 270 have quick first step. Kyrie is quicker because he is much smaller.

melo has a quick first step

JohnMax
08-01-2015, 09:45 AM
melo has a quick first step

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psXgVL8iapo&t=2m0s

TripleA
08-01-2015, 09:48 AM
Yeah lebron does not have a great first step. But other stars had flawed athleticism too. Kobe had a poorer vertical than other super athletic stars, Kevin durant is weak as shit, Westbrook has no change of pace so he bricks layups etc. Dwight Howard no fluidity. Melo worst flaw is that he sorta sucks at finishing layups for some reason. He would be 30 point scorer if he could finish a damn layup.

#number6ix#
08-01-2015, 10:03 AM
How quick is a guy his size first step suppose to be...

superteamtheory
08-01-2015, 10:07 AM
:rolleyes:

it's quick enough to get the job done against all nba defenders on most nights...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7IdeIgQF_8

but when you're going up up against an all 1st team defender / former all-star similarly as athletic as you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWZC0MV9zIo
that's not most nights.

LeBron did settle for a lot of awkward jumpers tho and had defensive lapses and I'm sure he's spent a good hard month now reflecting on his various mistakes so next time he has to singlehandedly win a championship he can have a literally perfect game for all your haters..

:coleman:

BlackWhiteGreen
08-01-2015, 10:43 AM
It really affects his effectiveness imo I don't know whether he'll make it at NBA level

MP.Trey
08-01-2015, 11:23 AM
LeBron has weaknesses? Nah bro, he's a flawless athlete and player.

How many times are you going to make this thread detailing things we've already known for a while. I sware this is the 12th time I've seen this thread regurgitated from you.

sportjames23
08-01-2015, 11:37 AM
You are trying way to hard to be 3ball.


http://i.imgur.com/AG9nAZJ.png

RidonKs
08-01-2015, 11:41 AM
yeah lebron gets past people because he keeps picking up momentum and going faster and then his shoulders do the work of clearing space around crowds. other than that he's just slashing into gaps when the defender isn't paying attention. it's not that often he tries to break anybody down out of triple threat or goes as soon as he gets the ball.

imnew09
08-01-2015, 01:03 PM
He got the first crab step

Myth
08-01-2015, 03:47 PM
Even LeBron knows this. It is the reason he backs up before driving at the hoop, rather than MJ would lets the D right up in him before blowing by. It actually shows that LeBron is pretty smart by backing up rather than trying something he wouldn't be great at.

JohnMax
10-02-2022, 03:55 PM
OldSchoolBBall (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?481287-Why-is-Lebron-a-bad-two-foot-leaper&p=14032532&viewfull=1#post14032532)

Lebron has tremendous strength in his quads, and good strength in his calves, which makes him an all-time great leaper off of one foot with a running start (his quad strength is also why he's so fast in a straight line in the open court). However, I believe that 2-foot leaping, especially off a hop step (has Lebron ever done this in his career for a dunk?) is STRONGLY influenced by the proportion of fast-twitch muscle fiber you have as compared to slow twitch, as fast-twitch is for generating explosive movements. Jordan's quads and calves especially likely had a much higher ratio of fast-twitch muscles than Lebron, thus his "springyness" on two-foot and hop step leaps. It's also responsible for his insane first step, another thing which Lebron has lagged in over the years.

The amount of air Jordan was able to get off of 2-feet or a hop step with MINIMAL knee flexion, and how quickly he could get off the ground and get major air, is something I've never seen from another player. Honestly, young Kenyon Martin may have been the closest in terms of how quickly he could get up and get major air.

outofstomach
10-02-2022, 05:52 PM
actually never noticed this, great thread unironically

FultzNationRISE
10-02-2022, 06:19 PM
OldSchoolBBall (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?481287-Why-is-Lebron-a-bad-two-foot-leaper&p=14032532&viewfull=1#post14032532)

Lebron has tremendous strength in his quads, and good strength in his calves, which makes him an all-time great leaper off of one foot with a running start (his quad strength is also why he's so fast in a straight line in the open court). However, I believe that 2-foot leaping, especially off a hop step (has Lebron ever done this in his career for a dunk?) is STRONGLY influenced by the proportion of fast-twitch muscle fiber you have as compared to slow twitch, as fast-twitch is for generating explosive movements. Jordan's quads and calves especially likely had a much higher ratio of fast-twitch muscles than Lebron, thus his "springyness" on two-foot and hop step leaps. It's also responsible for his insane first step, another thing which Lebron has lagged in over the years.

The amount of air Jordan was able to get off of 2-feet or a hop step with MINIMAL knee flexion, and how quickly he could get off the ground and get major air, is something I've never seen from another player. Honestly, young Kenyon Martin may have been the closest in terms of how quickly he could get up and get major air.

Morant is similar and a lot of it simply has to do with bone mass. Dudes with slimmer bone structures naturally have more bounce, all other things being equal. Lebron is naturally thicc so he needs to build up momentum first and then he can launch himself. It’s like a helicopter vs a jumbo jet. They both get up there but in different ways. Once MJ started using enhancements and bulked up to the type of body Lebron has naturally, he used momentum more as well.

At the end of the day the “first step criticism” isnt even a criticism. The guy literally became the GOAT so who tf cares anyway.

kawhileonard2
10-02-2022, 10:52 PM
Dwight Howard proved this when he beat him without HCA.

Full Court
10-03-2022, 07:01 AM
He has one of the quickest flops in the league though.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tenor.com%2Fimages%2Fd5e532 0aef67829b6044fc0d079f7264%2Ftenor.gif&f=1&nofb=1

Im Still Ballin
10-03-2022, 08:33 AM
He has one of the quickest flops in the league though.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tenor.com%2Fimages%2Fd5e532 0aef67829b6044fc0d079f7264%2Ftenor.gif&f=1&nofb=1

Just a bit of latency issues. Just a little of bit of lag.

Full Court
10-03-2022, 05:41 PM
Just a bit of latency issues. Just a little of bit of lag.

Don't worry. I hear from a solid source that he's been working really hard in the off-season on reducing his lag time for flops.