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View Full Version : We're betraying the kurds again...



Dresta
08-01-2015, 05:01 PM
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/once-again-the-kurds-are-betrayed/17243#.Vb0lghNViko


This US-led volte-face, in which the Kurds, so long used by the West as a bulwark against IS, have been blithely, callously cast to the Turkish wind, is typical of the blundering, moral and political incoherence of contemporary Western intervention. Once again, shallow posturing and clueless meddling combine to barbaric effect. Today’s allies are tomorrow’s enemies, and vice versa. Two years ago, Syrian president Bashar al Assad was bad guy numero uno, and the assorted army renegades and Islamists operating under the catch-all title of ‘the Syrian rebels’ were to be supported with arms and big statements. A year later, and Assad is himself fighting against the West’s current bad guy numero uno, IS, which, alongside assorted al-Qaeda franchises, were the principal recipients of Western anti-Assad largesse – as IS’s numerous US Humvees and rocket launchers testify.

The Kurdish case is even more pronounced. In late January, for instance, the People’s Protection Units and the Peshmerga from Iraqi Kurdistan helped defend the key north Syrian town of Kobane against IS. The siege lasted 134 days and resulted in the deaths of 459 Kurdish soldiers (plus 1,075 IS fighters). US State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki told reporters at the time: ‘We congratulate [Kobane’s] brave defenders. We’ll continue to support [the YPG and the Kurdish Peshmerga] as we look to the coming weeks ahead. This is an important step in the first phase of a long-term campaign to degrade and ultimately defeat ISIS.’

Fast forward five months, and the US, far from supporting the YPG or the Peshmerga, is helping to bomb the Kurds in the back. Of course, the US is claiming that this is not the case. It claims it is working with Turkey to eliminate IS, and will now be able to launch air raids from the strategically convenient Incirlik airbase near the Syrian border. But in return for the use of the airbase, the US and NATO have given a tacit thumbs-up to the Turkish strikes against the PKK in northern Iraq, regardless of the fact that the PKK is affiliated with those very same Kurds the US and NATO have been supporting in Syria.’

The practical problem with America’s cosying-up to Turkey in return for a place to station fighter planes is that the Turkish state has hardly proved itself a bastion of anti-IS resistance. For too long, in fact, it seemed content to use IS against what it perceives to be the greater threat, its own Kurdish population and, especially, the PKK. Hence during the Battle of Kobane, Turkey stopped Turkish-Kurdish fighters crossing the border into Syria to help their comrades. Until IS bombed Suruc earlier this month, IS was treated as a useful enemy for Turkey. And perhaps it still is. As many critics have pointed out, the Turkish state can clamp down on Kurdish attempts to claw back greater autonomy in, if not outright independence from, Turkey under the pretext of a campaign against IS. Some have gone further still to argue that Turkey’s president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, whose own power base was weakened by his Justice and Development Party’s relatively poor performance in the recent Turkish elections, is trying to win back supporters on a wave of anti-terrorist and anti-Kurdish nationalism.

While this is speculation, one thing is certain: the West’s shallow, commitment-lite interventions show a stunning disregard for the political realities of the conflict. It is as if the Middle East is little more than a stage on which Western leaders strike poses that vary from one night to the next. But that doesn’t make the effects of Western action any less deleterious. It is continuing to screw up the region, encouraging and supporting the Kurds at the same time as it is selling their souls to the Turkish state in return for greater air power. And in doing so, an already brutalising region-wide conflict is made just that little bit nastier, and just that little bit more unpredictable. Just ask the Kurds.

And for what, some support from this tyrannical asshole?:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/07/29/erdogan-turkey-kurds-islamic-state/

An example of people who are truly oppressed (rather than the pseudo-oppression people on here are always whining about), and yet here the Obama administration is, happy to stab them in the back, while also cozying up to a supposed ally, who aided the growth of IS, well-known for its lying, and is openly tyrannical - nice!

Dresta
08-01-2015, 05:07 PM
Actually, this article is better (Patrick Cockburn has lots of experience in the region, and wrote a good book on the rise of IS):

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/turkeykurdish-conflict-obamas-deal-with-ankara-is-a-betrayal-of-syrian-kurds-and-may-not-even-weaken-isis-10432524.html


The deal between the US and Turkey which will allow American bombers to use Incirlik airbase while Turkey takes action against Islamic State (Isis) looks stranger and stranger. When first announced over a week ago, US officials spoke triumphantly of the agreement being “a game-changer” in the war against Isis. In fact, the war waged by Turkey in the days since this great American diplomatic success has been almost entirely against the Kurds, at home and abroad.

Turkish jets are pounding sites occupied by the PKK (Kurdistan Workers Party) guerrillas in the Qandil Mountains and other parts of northern Iraq. Inside Turkey, the majority of those detained by the security forces turn out to be Kurdish or left-wing activists and not suspected Isis sympathisers. Prosecutions are threatened against MPs of the largely Kurdish Peoples’ Democratic Party (HDP) which has tirelessly advocated peace between the PKK and the Turkish government. Evidently, the HDP’s offence was to win 13 per cent of the votes in Turkey’s general election on 7 June, thereby depriving President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s ruling AKP of its parliamentary majority for the first time since 2002.

Anyone with a half-a-brain could have told you the prime concern for the Turks were the Kurds, and not IS - so what is this from the Obama administration? Incredible levels of stupidity, or the most grotesque sort of cynicism (you know, like in the intelligence reports that spoke of the growth of IS being of tactical value)? Take your pick.

RidonKs
08-01-2015, 05:25 PM
they're trapped between iraq and a hard place...

Clyde
08-01-2015, 05:32 PM
they're trapped between iraq and a hard place...

:roll: :roll:
:applause:

Dresta
08-01-2015, 05:41 PM
they're trapped between iraq and a hard place...
:lol

That was pretty good.

But you betta watch out, cos when the moral brigade starts to care about these people, you'll find out that joking about those being bombarded, raped and killed on all sides is no joke at all.

:no:

Where is your humanity mahn?

RidonKs
08-01-2015, 06:00 PM
given the history of us/turk relations with the kurds, plus the hussein history dating back to the late 80s in iraq..... where the hell do you see this thing going? it's incredibly unpredictable with the ridiculous crossbalance of forces.

RedBlackAttack
08-01-2015, 06:34 PM
they're trapped between iraq and a hard place...
Yesssss.

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/USATODAY/USATODAY/2012/09/28/2012-09-28-albert-x-large.jpg

NumberSix
08-01-2015, 06:44 PM
The United States should give the Kurds sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads.

navy
08-01-2015, 06:45 PM
Fvck the region in general

fiddy
08-01-2015, 06:56 PM
Hypocrisy at its finest? :confusedshrug:

RidonKs
08-01-2015, 07:07 PM
Actually, this article is better (Patrick Cockburn has lots of experience in the region, and wrote a good book on the rise of IS):

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/turkeykurdish-conflict-obamas-deal-with-ankara-is-a-betrayal-of-syrian-kurds-and-may-not-even-weaken-isis-10432524.html



Anyone with a half-a-brain could have told you the prime concern for the Turks were the Kurds, and not IS - so what is this from the Obama administration? Incredible levels of stupidity, or the most grotesque sort of cynicism (you know, like in the intelligence reports that spoke of the growth of IS being of tactical value)? Take your pick.
didn't see you post this. cockburn is fantastic.

so in a polite gentlemen's agreement, the obama administration will wait for the kurds to be bombed by turkey before it bombs isis to save the kurds...

it's incredible that the establishment can't seem to grasp the contradiction at the heart of that article.

fiddy
08-01-2015, 07:26 PM
didn't see you post this. cockburn is fantastic.

so in a polite gentlemen's agreement, the obama administration will wait for the kurds to be bombed by turkey before it bombs isis to save the kurds...

it's incredible that the establishment can't seem to grasp the contradiction at the heart of that article. Holy **** you dumb AF. The turkish scum is not supposed to bomb the Kurds in he first place :facepalm

RidonKs
08-01-2015, 07:33 PM
Holy **** you dumb AF. The turkish scum is not supposed to bomb the Kurds in he first place :facepalm
except in the 90s when arms from america to turkey tripled for the express purpose of what? why bombing kurds of course!

Smook B
08-01-2015, 07:35 PM
they're trapped between iraq and a hard place...

:oldlol:

RedBlackAttack
08-01-2015, 08:07 PM
A civil war needs to happen. It's unfortunate and a lot of people who probably shouldn't die will, but our constant intervention in trying to pick winners in the Middle East has only made things more difficult and the region more unstable than it already was.

We need to take a step back and allow these people, who've been fighting for centuries, to settle their own issues. I've adopted a very isolationist ideology over the years when it comes to the Middle East.

KevinNYC
08-01-2015, 10:42 PM
cockburn is fantastic.Lots of folks seem to think the Hassan Hassan book on ISIS is more accurate.

RidonKs
08-02-2015, 03:46 AM
Lots of folks seem to think the Hassan Hassan book on ISIS is more accurate.
care to source that claim? i've only read the first chapter of his latest jihadis book, have not read the hassan hassan

Dresta
08-04-2015, 06:30 PM
given the history of us/turk relations with the kurds, plus the hussein history dating back to the late 80s in iraq..... where the hell do you see this thing going? it's incredibly unpredictable with the ridiculous crossbalance of forces.
Who knows really? I suspect Erdogan is using the PKK in an attempt to divide the Kurds, as the fight against ISIS had given them some degree of unity, and also bolstered calls for statehood, which scares his type of Turkish Islamist-Nationalist, who will use any excuse to repress Kurds (this also explains his willingness to bomb civilian areas in Iraq, so the Iraqi Kurds will blame the PKK). These crackdowns are in no way limited to the PKK, however, who Erdogan is using as an excuse to increase his power - i would not be at all surprised if Ankara soon calls a new election, and uses the recent murders as a pretext to persecute the moderate Kurd party that prevented a supermajority, which will basically end the semi-democracy that has recently existed in Turkey. This could lead to further civil unrest and another chaotic muslim nation - great.

Though it is not like the PKK doesn't have justification for attacking Turkish security services: they have been heavily involved in aiding and abetting the growth of IS, which has reigned misery upon the Kurds. This is proven, and really shows the hollowness of NATO, which needs to be disbanded:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/26/isis-syria-turkey-us?CMP=share_btn_tw.


In the wake of the raid that killed Abu Sayyaf, suspicions of an undeclared alliance have hardened. One senior western official familiar with the intelligence gathered at the slain leader’s compound said that direct dealings between Turkish officials and ranking Isis members was now “undeniable”.

“There are hundreds of flash drives and documents that were seized there,” the official told the Observer. “They are being analysed at the moment, but the links are already so clear that they could end up having profound policy implications for the relationship between us and Ankara.”

The Kurds are, quite rightly, pissed at Obama, who seems to have no idea what he is doing, the walking teleprompter that he is - this was circulating on their twitter accounts:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLXS2PrWcAAEsJM.jpg

:lol


This could all end up destabilising Turkey, and doing very little to weaken IS, who are clearly not a priority for the Turkish government, which is instead focused on suppressing all kinds of peaceful dissent within its own borders.

RidonKs
08-04-2015, 06:52 PM
Who knows really? I suspect Erdogan is using the PKK in an attempt to divide the Kurds, as the fight against ISIS had given them some degree of unity, and also bolstered calls for statehood, which scares his type of Turkish Islamist-Nationalist, who will use any excuse to repress Kurds (this also explains his willingness to bomb civilian areas in Iraq, so the Iraqi Kurds will blame the PKK).
presumably erdogan feels emboldened enough to piss off his allies and pursue his own nationalistic ends. it's unlikely nato can make any threat significant enough to turkey's interests to prevent them from consolidating their territory. kurds on either side who will finally unify around a single state... this is exactly what the turks have been fighting for decades now.

will the kurds be tossed to the side in the midst of this? they have a lot of momentum on their side, popular and diplomatic support. the general assembly would almost unanimously support a commission to draw borders and grant them state status. the security council on the other hand... the other possibility is that it will escalate further and the pending humanitarian catastrophe that will butt ends with the syrian civil war and israel's eye on isis and a republican will be elected in 2016 and world war 3 will erupt.

shit is actually scary. maybe everybody leaves well enough alone and a lot of people die in a single region rather than way more all over the world..

KevinNYC
08-04-2015, 07:57 PM
care to source that claim? i've only read the first chapter of his latest jihadis book, have not read the hassan hassan
there have been a lot of book reviews that compared both books.

KevinNYC
08-04-2015, 08:18 PM
This is proven, and really shows the hollowness of NATO, which needs to be disbanded:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015......


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10778515&postcount=18

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11061634&postcount=4

http://www.phrases.org.uk/images/petard.jpg

RidonKs
08-04-2015, 08:19 PM
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10778515&postcount=18

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11061634&postcount=4

http://www.phrases.org.uk/images/petard.jpg
the guardian is the equivalent of the times at this point. you take em seriously in certain sections of certain paragraphs.

Nick Young
07-15-2016, 05:53 PM
The dream of Kurdistan is rising.

Get hype

http://nationalinterest.org/files/styles/main_image_on_posts/public/main_images/pix2_072414.jpg

UK2K
07-15-2016, 06:04 PM
We should be helping the Kurds. Whatever happens in Turkey, happens.

Nick Young
07-15-2016, 06:09 PM
We should install a secular puppet in Turkey or allow them real democratic elections and hope that they don't put another fundamentalist dictator in charge (but they probably will).


Then we should help create Kurdistan. Kurdistan and Israel can hold down the fort in the Middle East and allow us to focus our attention on China.