View Full Version : What caused LeBron's scoring skillset to decline so much in one season?
I think we can all agree LeBron didn't score with his usual efficiency this year, especially in the playoffs. This was far from the case in the 2014 playoffs. From what I saw of LeBron in 2014 (admittedly not much outside of highlights until the playoffs, I didn't have access to TV very much) he had the best scoring skill set for his career. He's always been a great slasher, we know that, but 2014 LeBron had a consistently above average jumpshot and a very good post game, which enabled him to retain his excellent efficiency throughout the playoffs. This year, LeBron had an awful jumpshot in the playoffs, and his post game looked significantly weaker. His finishing ability also was nowhere near what it has been. He was missing shots that he NEVER misses :biggums: Is it age and/or wear and tear? Is LeBron no longer capable of scoring 25-30 PPG on elite efficiency?
Still, IDK why he has regressed in areas he worked hard on to improve (shooting, posting up) and in his strongest asset of all (finishing) in just one year.
Thoughts? If you come in here with an idiotic agenda, I am not going to acknowledge you in this thread.
Rose'sACL
08-02-2015, 12:55 PM
First year back with a very inexperienced team. I am sure he will score more this season. He is getting older though.
First year back with a very inexperienced team. I am sure he will score more this season. He is getting older though.
It's not about his PPG, necessarily he scored a ton in the playoffs obviously. But there is no way in hell 2012-14 LeBron is made so inefficient the way 2015 LeBron was. LeBron used to DESTROY Iguodala IIRC
Lebron23
08-02-2015, 12:57 PM
I think over fatigue, and he played with an inexperienced team. Expect LeBron to be his usual self in 2015-16.
Rose's ACL, do you know how to find ISO scoring stats? I can't access 'em online. I could have sworn LeBron used to have much better ISO stats than he did this year...NBA.com still has him as pretty good at points per possession on ISOS (or is it PPS?) but only at 40% shooting.
SpecialQue
08-02-2015, 01:47 PM
I think part of it may have been a "win at all cost" attitude. He didn't have the luxury of taking smarter shots that he usually does, his team was injured, and he has a very irregular response to pressure.
WayOfWade
08-02-2015, 01:48 PM
Maybe in general the team wasn't as good/didn't have that chemistry he had in Miami. But with Cleveland being healthy(we hope)and a year under the team's belt, he should improve once again.
Sigmund Freud
08-02-2015, 01:52 PM
I think part of it may have been a "win at all cost" attitude. He didn't have the luxury of taking smarter shots that he usually does, his team was injured, and he has a very irregular response to pressure.
Honestly, I wish he had the aggressive mentality back when he could shoot :lol
Yes this is RRR3, too lazy to log out
Indian guy
08-02-2015, 01:56 PM
I personally didn't see a decline besides his jumper completely bottoming out in the playoffs. But that's an aspect of his game that has always been erratic. And that, along with the massive volume he had to undertake because of a depleted roster, is why his FG% was so low. If Love/Kyrie are healthy next season though, I see LeBron's efficiency going right back to 50%. I mean, that's what he shot all regular season too. He didn't just magically lose that ability come playoffs. But you take away a 30 year old's 2 best teammates, take away his jumper, put him on a 1st year team with little chemistry and a very unimaginative offense that requires him to do everything, and the 2015 playoffs is what you get. But I didn't see any notable loss in physical ability. After his 2-week hiatus in January, his athleticism was essentially back to 2014-level.
His 2014 postseason, FG% wise, was an anomaly. None of his other postseason runs are anywhere close to that level of efficiency. His mid-range and 3pter were money in every series and he was part of a team and system that had been together for a long time. But it's not at all realistic to judge his other playoff runs to that outlier. LeBron's jumper is never that consistent.
Honestly, I wish he had the aggressive mentality back when he could shoot :lol
Yes this is RRR3, too lazy to log out
Silence you fool, they'll know.
I personally didn't see a decline besides his jumper completely bottoming out in the playoffs. But that's an aspect of his game that has always been erratic. And that, along with the massive volume he had to undertake because of a depleted roster, is why his FG% was so low. If Love/Kyrie are healthy next season though, I see LeBron's efficiency going right back to 50%. I mean, that's what he shot all regular season too. He didn't just magically lose that ability come playoffs. But you take away a 30 year old's 2 best teammates, take away his jumper, put him on a 1st year team with little chemistry and a very unimaginative offense that requires him to do everything, and the 2014 playoffs is what you get. But I didn't see any notable loss in physical ability. After his 2-week hiatus in January, his athleticism was essentially back to 2014-level. He was back to shooting 75% at the rim, which is what he was shooting in Miami.
His 2014 postseason, FG% wise, was an anomaly. None of his other postseason runs are anywhere close to that level of efficiency. His mid-range and 3pter were money in every series and he was part of a team and system that had been together for a long time. But it's not at all realistic to judge his other playoff runs to that outlier. LeBron's jumper is never that consistent.
You didn't see a decline in his finishing ability and post game in the playoffs? I could have sworn you commented on that, especially his decline in scoring with his left hand.
RedBlackAttack
08-02-2015, 01:58 PM
It's not about his PPG, necessarily he scored a ton in the playoffs obviously. But there is no way in hell 2012-14 LeBron is made so inefficient the way 2015 LeBron was. LeBron used to DESTROY Iguodala IIRC
Yes, but Iggy's job with the Sixers was to be their best offensive and defensive player. He was their LeBron, basically. He had no viable backup to spell him or teammates who could feasibly defend LeBron for extended minutes.
In Golden State, he was asked to defend LeBron and hit an occasional wide open jumper. It's a lot easier when you can put 100-percent of your focus on trying to stop one player than it is having to do that plus all of the other stuff in Philly. Add to the mix that GSW actually had a couple of other guys they could throw at LBJ to give him a completely different look and give Iggy a break, and that explains your last sentence.
From the Mozgov, JR, Shump trade forward, LeBron was dominating. Even with his jumpshot broken, LeBron was the best player in the world without question for the last few months of the season and even in the playoffs considering the load he was forced to carry with first Love and then Kyrie having to take a seat.
It's just that, when really good defenses only have one guy to worry about, it's hard lead teams on the biggest stage while maintaining ridiculous efficiency.
After wondering in the early part of the season whether or not James had gotten old overnight, I thought he was as good as ever in the second half of the season.
ArbitraryWater
08-02-2015, 01:58 PM
I think part of it may have been a "win at all cost" attitude. He didn't have the luxury of taking smarter shots that he usually does, his team was injured, and he has a very irregular response to pressure.
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah306/MaleRuler/GIFs/dc7cb0af9a_zpswiw3rnrh.gif (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/MaleRuler/media/GIFs/dc7cb0af9a_zpswiw3rnrh.gif.html)
Yes, but Iggy's job with the Sixers was to be their best offensive and defensive player. He was their LeBron, basically. He had no viable backup to spell him or teammates who could feasibly defend LeBron for extended minutes.
In Golden State, he was asked to defend LeBron and hit an occasional wide open jumper. It's a lot easier when you can put 100-percent of your focus on trying to stop one player than it is having to do that plus all of the other stuff in Philly. Add to the mix that GSW actually had a couple of other guys they could throw at LBJ to give him a completely different look and give Iggy a break, and that explains your last sentence.
From the Mozgov, JR, Shump trade forward, LeBron was dominating. Even with his jumpshot broken, LeBron was the best player in the world without question for the last few months of the season and even in the playoffs considering the load he was forced to carry with first Love and then Kyrie having to take a seat.
It's just that, when really good defenses only have one guy to worry about, it's hard lead teams on the biggest stage while maintaining ridiculous efficiency.
After wondering in the early part of the season whether or not James had gotten old overnight, I thought he was as good as ever in the second half of the season.
I'm just basing this on what I saw in the playoffs. LeBron missed a lot of shots that I am not used to seeing him struggle to convert.
If he is really slowing down, then Kyrie may need more touches.
STATUTORY
08-02-2015, 02:03 PM
what decline?
he never had a consistent jump shot
weak post moves
even in his peak he was never a great or even good iso scorer, always requiring a pick to get by his man
it was the same lebron, defense just caught on and stopped doubling him. The worst thing you can do to Lebron is to double him because he will kill you with the pass. Single cover him and sag off on the perimeter and he will be rendered impotent
I.R.Beast
08-02-2015, 02:07 PM
Because he doesn't play with 2 stars in Wade and Bosh to inflate his percentages anymore. Half his points are'nt coming off of fastbreaks anymore. He actually has to isolate now. He actually has to shoot the ball now and can't protect his FG%. No more screen on every play while the defense stays at bay in fear of Wade and Bosh
He's always been a streaky mid-range shooter. He just shot more mid-range last year than he did in Miami. Plus, he couldn't afford to be calculated about his shots either because of Love and Irving being injured.
2009-present Lebron hasn't changed much on the skillsets of things.
ArbitraryWater
08-02-2015, 02:10 PM
what decline?
he never had a consistent jump shot
weak post moves
even in his peak he was never a great or even good iso scorer, always requiring a pick to get by his man
it was the same lebron, defense just caught on and stopped doubling him. The worst thing you can do to Lebron is to double him because he will kill you with the pass. Single cover him and sag off on the perimeter and he will be rendered impotent
damn, Bron gonna become the all time leading scorer with no post game, no jumpshot, weak one on one, all dunks :bowdown:
Indian guy
08-02-2015, 02:12 PM
You didn't see a decline in his finishing ability and post game in the playoffs?
I have never thought much of his post-game, to be honest. He's neither very skilled nor very willing. The best it ever looked was early 2014 season, but by mid-season he had basically abandoned that aspect of his game and went back to playing almost exclusively face-up. And even more so in Cleveland. Everything was basically high pick-n-roll or an iso from the top this past season. It changed come playoffs given what happened to Love and Kyrie, but I thought it looked like it always did - a mixed bag.
I could have sworn you commented on that, especially his decline in scoring with his left hand.
True. I'd attribute it to a slight decline in his vertical, but nothing significant. He still shot 70% "at-rim" in the playoffs on high volume, which is very good and what he used to shoot pre-Miami.
Dragonyeuw
08-02-2015, 02:15 PM
Lebron's jumper seems to go awry if he has to rely too much on it. He's always been streaky and never at a level where he could consistently get 30 from perimeter shots( like MJ or Kobe).
WayOfWade
08-02-2015, 02:19 PM
Lebron's jumper seems to go awry if he has to rely too much on it. He's always been streaky and never at a level where he could consistently get 30 from perimeter shots( like MJ or Kobe).
True, he has good jump shooting games from time to time, but not too consistently, at least not last year.
STATUTORY
08-02-2015, 02:22 PM
damn, Bron gonna become the all time leading scorer with no post game, no jumpshot, weak one on one, all dunks :bowdown:
:confusedshrug: n99a is good at the fastbreak and in transition
Dragonyeuw
08-02-2015, 02:29 PM
True, he has good jump shooting games from time to time, but not too consistently, at least not last year.
The way I see it, if his driving game is on, and hes getting easy buckets in transition, then his jumper compliments that. If a team has the personal and philosophy to make him a jumpshooter, thats where things go awry. Its very much a confidence/ rhythm thing with his jumper.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ofMwRzJynnc
I looked up some highlights and this series to me exemplifies Lebron at his peak best, getting out in transition, driving and finishing in the lane with incredible athleticism, but look at the confidence he's shooting the jumper with. If he was able to shoot with that kind of consistency over his career or at least the last 5 years, he very well may have another ring under his belt. THAT Lebron, though people consider 2012/2013 his peak, was the scariest one to me. All over the floor, the from-behind blocks, the athleticism, and shooting with that kind of confidence? This was the point when I first thought 'oh shit, this guy may be the one who tops MJ' just off that kind of display he was putting on back then. He never quite got there in spite of 2012 and 2013, but still. Unreal talent on display there....
gilalizard
08-02-2015, 02:44 PM
post-hgh adjustment has gotta be tough
lilteapot
08-02-2015, 02:45 PM
Lebron's lack of rhythm this past season was because of his sharp decrease in catch and shoot opportunities. He's always been a great shooter off the catch and the system in Miami enabled him to have way more shots like that. This past season he settled too much because there was no system in place. Hopefully Blatt is able to sit down and find a style of play that works for them.
T_L_P
08-02-2015, 02:49 PM
Miami forced LeBron to play within an offensive system.
Now that he has free reign over a team again it's back to his top of the key isolation plays.
Hey Yo
08-02-2015, 05:12 PM
Miami forced LeBron to play within an offensive system.
Now that he has free reign over a team again it's back to his top of the key isolation plays.
He had plenty of "top of the key iso's" in Miami also.
Playing with teammates you never played with before and a brand new coach who has no NBA coaching experience all rolled into one, is the proper recipe for trying different systems and things to see what works best. Wouldn't expect a Spurs fan to realize that.
Not sure why people think that...... the way LeBron played in this past finals, is exactly how the offense ran during the regular season? Thinking that LeBron would have played exactly the same if Irving and Love were 100% healthy.
Other than his jumper this past Finals, him not finishing around the rim was the one thing I noticed most.
AnaheimLakers24
08-02-2015, 05:16 PM
No roids, hgh, and had no skill to begin with
G0ATbe
08-02-2015, 05:24 PM
He's the same player he was on the heat its just that these guys dont go out of their way to pad LeBalds FG% with all those lob passes.
nzahir
08-02-2015, 05:53 PM
Mia offense made it easier because there were 3 guys who could create baskets for themselves and others(wade, bosh, lebron). Lebron had to do it all so the offense could focus on him. Big 3 in mia were the most efficient they ever were b/c they could get easier shots from each other. Also the cavs first year together so less experience. Next year lebron will shoot above 50% again(49.6% this season) if team is healthy
blacknapalm
08-02-2015, 05:55 PM
his jump shot was broke all playoffs.
other than that, i don't necessarily see a decline in skillset. his post game was dominant at times, including in the finals. his post game was really went made him effective considering his jump shot was nowhere to be found.
i do think fatigue is a factor...let's remember no player has played more total minutes than lebron the last 4-5 years.
he also had to do everything for the cavs after irving went down. his usage rate and the points/assists he generated for that team was absurd
inclinerator
08-02-2015, 06:03 PM
fatigue like l23 said
ralph_i_el
08-02-2015, 10:31 PM
He attacked less this year. Yeah the team was less experienced and obviously needed time to gel, but LeBron played a less aggressive style of ball. Probably in an effort to extend his career. His play in the finals was due to lack of spacing.
warriorfan
08-02-2015, 10:44 PM
I think we can all agree LeBron didn't score with his usual efficiency this year, especially in the playoffs. This was far from the case in the 2014 playoffs. From what I saw of LeBron in 2014 (admittedly not much outside of highlights until the playoffs, I didn't have access to TV very much) he had the best scoring skill set for his career. He's always been a great slasher, we know that, but 2014 LeBron had a consistently above average jumpshot and a very good post game, which enabled him to retain his excellent efficiency throughout the playoffs. This year, LeBron had an awful jumpshot in the playoffs, and his post game looked significantly weaker. His finishing ability also was nowhere near what it has been. He was missing shots that he NEVER misses :biggums: Is it age and/or wear and tear? Is LeBron no longer capable of scoring 25-30 PPG on elite efficiency?
Still, IDK why he has regressed in areas he worked hard on to improve (shooting, posting up) and in his strongest asset of all (finishing) in just one year.
Thoughts? If you come in here with an idiotic agenda, I am not going to acknowledge you in this thread.
Declining athleticism while not adding other elements to his game to make up for it.
Angel Face
08-02-2015, 11:07 PM
He was never an elite scorer to begin with, okay scorer, yes but elite... nah! it was bound to happen. His high fg% during his Heat run was due to the fact that his team was stacked as ****. Without elite scorers playing along side him, he was bound to get exposed. Just take a look at this year's finals. 36ppg on 35 shots not only that but regular season stats dropped as well and he shot atrocious the whole playoffs.
lilteapot
08-02-2015, 11:44 PM
He was never an elite scorer to begin with, okay scorer, yes but elite... nah! it was bound to happen. His high fg% during his Heat run was due to the fact that his team was stacked as ****. Without elite scorers playing along side him, he was bound to get exposed. Just take a look at this year's finals. 36ppg on 35 shots not only that but regular season stats dropped as well and he shot atrocious the whole playoffs.
:lol :lol :lol
Dumbass.
sdot_thadon
08-03-2015, 12:38 AM
I don't think enough thought is given to being in Miami 4 years and getting the most out of the system with spo. Spo may not be great but he deserves a bit of credit. He's the 1st coach to maximize Lebron on the floor, he tweaked things to put Lebron in better situations to succeed than this 1st year back in Cleveland. Playing with a guy like wade who appreciated the easy buckets lebron got for him, would always look to give lebron easy buckets in return. Although they had a redundancy, they had great chemistry. Kyrie doesn't have that sort of awareness or vision just yet, and may never have to be honest. With time the team will tweak strategy and the big guns will start making the game easier for each other more.
StrongLurk
08-03-2015, 03:18 PM
The way I see it, if his driving game is on, and hes getting easy buckets in transition, then his jumper compliments that. If a team has the personal and philosophy to make him a jumpshooter, thats where things go awry. Its very much a confidence/ rhythm thing with his jumper.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ofMwRzJynnc
I looked up some highlights and this series to me exemplifies Lebron at his peak best, getting out in transition, driving and finishing in the lane with incredible athleticism, but look at the confidence he's shooting the jumper with. If he was able to shoot with that kind of consistency over his career or at least the last 5 years, he very well may have another ring under his belt. THAT Lebron, though people consider 2012/2013 his peak, was the scariest one to me. All over the floor, the from-behind blocks, the athleticism, and shooting with that kind of confidence? This was the point when I first thought 'oh shit, this guy may be the one who tops MJ' just off that kind of display he was putting on back then. He never quite got there in spite of 2012 and 2013, but still. Unreal talent on display there....
His athleticism in his first stint in Cleveland is so crazy, much crazier than now. He just looks so much more bouncy and effortless in his movements than he does now.
imdaman99
08-03-2015, 03:21 PM
Father time has no mercy.
ShawkFactory
08-03-2015, 04:12 PM
He was never an elite scorer to begin with, okay scorer, yes but elite... nah! it was bound to happen. His high fg% during his Heat run was due to the fact that his team was stacked as ****. Without elite scorers playing along side him, he was bound to get exposed. Just take a look at this year's finals. 36ppg on 35 shots not only that but regular season stats dropped as well and he shot atrocious the whole playoffs.
Oh wow. Not one of the smarter posts I've seen on here, I can tell you that much.
J Shuttlesworth
08-03-2015, 04:14 PM
I won't lie... I really miss watching 2012-14 LeBron, 09 LeBron as well :cry: 15' just didn't feel quite the same
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