Julius Erving.

[ClipperRevival]

http://m.youtube.com/results?q=julius+erving+documentary&sm=1

Watched this documentary done a few years back. Never got to see him play live. What are your thoughts on him for those of you that saw him in his prime? Is it true that he carried professional basketball from the early 70's to the 80's before Magic/Bird took over? How popular was he? The documentary states that he did and that he was clearly the star from this era.

Also, how good was he historically? Obviously no one has him in the top 10. Where do most rank him? Top 20-25? As a SF?

[Marchesk]

http://m.youtube.com/results?q=julius%20erving%20documentary&sm=1

Also, how good was he historically? Obviously no one has him in the top 10. Where do most rank him? Top 20-25? As a SF?

He's top 15, without question. What hurts him a little bit in the rankings is:

1. He played in the ABA, where he put up big numbers, won 3 MVPs and a championship.

2. He went to a 76ers team with other scorers on it, so he adjusted his game to fit in.

[AnaheimLakers24]

Was he a jump shooter? Most highlights ive seen of him are usually him driving to the rim

[ClipperRevival]

He's top 15, without question. What hurts him a little bit in the rankings is:

1. He played in the ABA, where he put up big numbers, won 3 MVPs and a championship.

2. He went to a 76ers team with other scorers on it, so he adjusted his game to fit in.

Yeah, his numbers dipped noticeably once he went to the NBA. But he did win an MVP in the NBA and won a ring with a historically great 76ers team in 1983.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Top15, 3rd GOAT SF... Considerably lower than that and you're underrating him, tbh.

J had a terrific peak... One of the GOAT athletes, beast on the fastbreak, probably the all-time best finisher at the rim, could hit FT's close to 80%, good post-game, good footwork, good touch from up close, he wasn't showing lots of range but don't act like he couldn't shoot plus he could create his own shot from close to the paint, very good rebounder, one of the greatest off-ball defenders ever, a good passer, clutch...

I think his ABA career shouldn't be held in similar ground as the NBA but it can't definitely be disregarded... For example, dude averaged 37.7/14.2/6.0/3.0/2.2 on 59% FG for the 1976 ABA Finals, against a Nuggets' team that went on to win 50 games in the NBA while being the #1 ranked defense (in 1977).

And when people say he was considerably worse when he went to the NBA, that's just false... He probably wasn't (couldn't be) quite as good due to being in a better, different league but he sacrificed a lot of his game for a Philly's team filled with scorers and ball-stoppers... Fact is that they immediately got to the NBA Finals (in 1977) and go look at what Erving did in the Playoffs, dude was killing it, especially in the Finals.

Plus, he still had some great NBA regular-seasons, mainly in 1980 and 1981.

And yea, he was the #1 superstar before Magic and Bird came around.

[senelcoolidge]

I have an old VHS tape that has the golden greats of basketball. I wish I could convert this vhs tape into a youtube video. It's incredible. The Dr. J part is amazing. Viewing that vhs tape makes my hair stand up. Amazing clips and the music is on point.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Golden-Greats-of-Basketball-VHS-1989-New-/301618088329?hash=item4639d6c989

it's only a buck on ebay. for anyone that loves the game and it's history it's a must watch. Dr. J, Wilt, Kareem, Rick Barry, Bill Russell, Bob Cousy, Oscar, Walt Frazier, Bob Pettit, and others.

[ArbitraryWater]

Top 25 without a question. Probably doesn't touch top 15 or 25, but some good players in 20-25, too.


One of the GOAT athletes, beast on the fastbreak, probably the all-time best finisher at the rim, could hit FT's close to 80%, good post-game, good footwork, good touch from up close, he wasn't showing lots of range but don't act like he couldn't shoot plus he could create his own shot from close to the paint, very good rebounder, one of the greatest off-ball defenders ever, a good passer, clutch...

sounds like MJ

[ClipperRevival]

So far two people say top 15. So you guys don't hamper him for being 1/4 in the finals? Was his 76ers the better team than Portland in 1977? They were up 2-0 then lost 4 straight. That's not good. Losing to the Showtime Lakers in 1980 and 1982 is no shame as they swept the same Lakers in 1983.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Top 15-18, IMO.

I have him somewhere after Jerry West and just before Barkley/Wade/Garnett

[SHAQisGOAT]

Was he a jump shooter? Most highlights ive seen of him are usually him driving to the rim

He wasn't definitely what you'd call a jump-shooter but he wasn't no inept shooter at all, plus he could create his own shot...
For example, found this all from the same game at the end:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUnJmN-cR3w

[STATUTORY]

Top 25 without a question. Probably doesn't touch top 15 or 25, but some good players in 20-25, too.



sounds like MJ

MJ did swagger jack Dr. J's entire act, except for the hair

[3ball]

If Dr. J got to "upgrade his software" like Gilbert Arenas phrased it, he could be the best ever.

Dr. J has an argument for GOAT athlete when you consider that he was jumping like MJ and Lebron in 1970, back when they didn't have modern nutrition.

In today's game, he'd look more diesel like an MJ or Lebron, and he'd be flying through the air even more than he did in his day..

Of course, never forget - Dr. J's era didn't have spacing - don't believe what various liars in the forum will tell you that his era WAS spaced and that coaches merely used non-shooters to space the floor in the absence of actual 3-point shooters - this is a blatant lie - the floor was NOT spaced in Dr. J's era.

[Marchesk]

Dr. J averaged 1.8 steals and 1.5 blocks in the NBA, which is quite impressive for a SF.

[SHAQisGOAT]

So far two people say top 15. So you guys don't hamper him for being 1/4 in the finals? Was his 76ers the better team than Portland in 1977? They were up 2-0 then lost 4 straight. That's not good. Losing to the Showtime Lakers in 1980 and 1982 is no shame as they swept the same Lakers in 1983.

Julius was great in the 1977 Finals, go check it out...
McGinnis sucked and only Doug Collins was "helping" Dr J.
I don't think they had much chances though, Portland was a great T-E-A-M (with prime Walton) while Philly had some great talent/players (better than the Blazers) but were very individualistic with ball-stoppers/hoggers only creating for themselves and even for others but without moving the ball (lots of kickouts), and not much clutch performers at all.

Erving also played really well for the 1980 and 1982 Finals but they were just playing against a better team.

Plus, like I've said, let's not totally disregard his ABA resume, he also won and was a beast there.

[senelcoolidge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAvhvpQ7DSw

I wish this video had more of his jump shots. I always liked Dr. J's shooting mechanics, unique. He shot it so high.

[SHAQisGOAT]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAvhvpQ7DSw

I wish this video had more of his jump shots. I always liked Dr. J's shooting mechanics, unique. He shot it so high.

:bowdown:

Them paws, man... Just not fair, dude's 6'7, long arms, crazy ripped, beast of an overall athlete then just has some enormous hands... Huge advantage out on the basketball court.

[ClipperRevival]

Julius was great in the 1977 Finals, go check it out...
McGinnis sucked and only Doug Collins was "helping" Dr J.
I don't think they had much chances though, Portland was a great T-E-A-M (with prime Walton) while Philly had some great talent/players (better than the Blazers) but were very individualistic with ball-stoppers/hoggers only creating for themselves and even for others but without moving the ball (lots of kickouts), and not much clutch performers at all.

Erving also played really well for the 1980 and 1982 Finals but they were just playing against a better team.

Plus, like I've said, let's not totally disregard his ABA resume, he also won and was a beast there.

Averaged 30.3 in the 77 finals. But still, given his 1/4 finals record, you don't seem to be holding that against him much. Are you forgiving him for facing superior teams? What type of playoff performer was he? Did he have clutch issues and moments of shying away in big moments or he just let it all hang out and went at it?

[SHAQisGOAT]

Averaged 30.3 in the 77 finals. But still, given his 1/4 finals record, you don't seem to be holding that against him much. Are you forgiving him for facing superior teams? What type of playoff performer was he? Did he have clutch issues and moments of shying away in big moments or he just let it all hang out and went at it?

Rather 30.3/6.8/5.0/2.7/1.2 on 54.3/85.7, and not only that but even watching the games, he played extremely well, only player who was really great for the 76ers.

He had plenty of very good post-season runs, came up clutch lots of times, don't think he had any "issues" with it.

He played greatly for the 1977 Finals but most of his teammates didn't come through and the team was too individualistic; he played very well for the 1980 and 1982 Finals but LA was just better; he was also pretty good in the 1983 Finals as the 76ers 2nd best player, while they swept the Lakers...

Ofc that one gotta take into account his Finals record and so on (not like he one most of them) but I don't understand the whole holding it against him or forgiving him, not like I'm saying he's top5/10 all-time or something like that, even...
MVP, once a NBA champion, great peak/prime play, faced big-time competition (players and teams) plenty, good longevity, had some very good Playoffs run, some great Finals, clutch many times, and along with his ABA resume, that's clearly enough for top15 and 3rd GOAT SF, imo.

And, again, in the ABA he was a 3x MVP and 2x champ, playing like a beast... Don't give it "full" credit as the NBA but nobody can completely disregard that, or even close to it, especially "things" like his 1976 Finals.

[ClipperRevival]

Rather 30.3/6.8/5.0/2.7/1.2 on 54.3/85.7, and not only that but even watching the games, he played extremely well, only player who was really great for the 76ers.

He had plenty of very good post-season runs, came up clutch lots of times, don't think he had any "issues" with it.

He played greatly for the 1977 Finals but most of his teammates didn't come through and the team was too individualistic; he played very well for the 1980 and 1982 Finals but LA was just better; he was also pretty good in the 1983 Finals as the 76ers 2nd best player, while they swept the Lakers...

Ofc that one gotta take into account his Finals record and so on (not like he one most of them) but I don't understand the whole holding it against him or forgiving him, not like I'm saying he's top5/10 all-time or something like that, even...
MVP, once a NBA champion, great peak/prime play, faced big-time competition (players and teams) plenty, good longevity, had some very good Playoffs run, some great Finals, clutch many times, and along with his ABA resume, that's clearly enough for top15 and 3rd GOAT SF, imo.

And, again, in the ABA he was a 3x MVP and 2x champ, playing like a beast... Don't give it "full" credit as the NBA but nobody can completely disregard that, or even close to it, especially "things" like his 1976 Finals.

Always appreciate opinions from guys who watched before my time. But more importantly, OBJECTIVE opinions. Like I could care less what Lazerus has to say about Wilt because it's so biased and lacking objectivity.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Always appreciate opinions from guys who watched before my time. But more importantly, OBJECTIVE opinions. Like I could care less what Lazerus has to say about Wilt because it's so biased and lacking objectivity.

:cheers:

[warriorfan]

Top15, 3rd GOAT SF... Considerably lower than that and you're underrating him, tbh.

J had a terrific peak... One of the GOAT athletes, beast on the fastbreak, probably the all-time best finisher at the rim, could hit FT's close to 80%, good post-game, good footwork, good touch from up close, he wasn't showing lots of range but don't act like he couldn't shoot plus he could create his own shot from close to the paint, very good rebounder, one of the greatest off-ball defenders ever, a good passer, clutch...

I think his ABA career shouldn't be held in similar ground as the NBA but it can't definitely be disregarded... For example, dude averaged 37.7/14.2/6.0/3.0/2.2 on 59% FG for the 1976 ABA Finals, against a Nuggets' team that went on to win 50 games in the NBA while being the #1 ranked defense (in 1977).

And when people say he was considerably worse when he went to the NBA, that's just false... He probably wasn't (couldn't be) quite as good due to being in a better, different league but he sacrificed a lot of his game for a Philly's team filled with scorers and ball-stoppers... Fact is that they immediately got to the NBA Finals (in 1977) and go look at what Erving did in the Playoffs, dude was killing it, especially in the Finals.

Plus, he still had some great NBA regular-seasons, mainly in 1980 and 1981.

And yea, he was the #1 superstar before Magic and Bird came around.

Pretty much what he said. By the time Dr J was in the NBA he was a shell of himself physically. If you watch any ABA footage you will see that he was an absolute beast. Dr J's 76's ABA Finals was one of the most dominant displays in basketball history, against a very good Nuggets team.

[ClipperRevival]

Pretty much what he said. By the time Dr J was in the NBA he was a shell of himself physically. If you watch any ABA footage you will see that he was an absolute beast. Dr J's 76's ABA Finals was one of the most dominant displays in basketball history, against a very good Nuggets team.

Unless he suffered some injury while transferring from the ABA to the NBA, there is really no excuse for losing anything physically because he was only 26 in his first season in the NBA. The only explanantion is the level of comp in the NBA was higher along with the fact that he had more talent around him so he didn't need to shoot as much. The numbers do show that he shot about 3-5 shots less than his ABA days.

[WayOfWade]

Kind of off topic, but his "rock the baby" dunk is probably my favorite play of all time

[sdot_thadon]

Didn't get to watch him live, but all the old folks growing up would tell me "Dr.J was our Jordan."
http://40.media.tumblr.com/a2001f50a17fbc7728ac140a8af65214/tumblr_mogsk4GS9F1qze5elo1_500.jpg

[aau]

Unless he suffered some injury while transferring from the ABA to the NBA, there is really no excuse for losing anything physically because he was only 26 in his first season in the NBA. The only explanantion is the level of comp in the NBA was higher along with the fact that he had more talent around him so he didn't need to shoot as much. The numbers do show that he shot about 3-5 shots less than his ABA days.

wow

he dominated the nba the same as aba
the team he joined cared more about
themselves than winning as a team

individually , he was the league

see for yourself

check the scroll down the right side

http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/2009/03/best-of-rivals-julius-erving-versus.html

[senelcoolidge]

Elgin Baylor > Dr. J > MJ. It all started with Baylor as guys that were very flashy and played spectacularly.

[ClipperRevival]

wow

he dominated the nba the same as aba
the team he joined cared more about
themselves than winning as a team

individually , he was the league

see for yourself

check the scroll down the right side

http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/2009/03/best-of-rivals-julius-erving-versus.html

I already conceded that he toned down his game given the superior talent surrounding him in the NBA.

But in the ABA, he averaged 28.7 ppg on 22.3 fga and 22.0 ppg on 17.1 fga in the NBA.

So you can't tell me his numbers didn't drop by a good margin in the NBA. Some of it due to the addiitional help but some of it due to the level of comp being better in the NBA.

[FKAri]

There are players who due to circumstances outside their control didn't get to show performances they were capable of. I think Dr. J falls into tht category. People now remember Dr.J as more of a showman than a player and I think that is a disservice to him as a player.

[Dr.J4ever]

Top15, 3rd GOAT SF... Considerably lower than that and you're underrating him, tbh.

J had a terrific peak... One of the GOAT athletes, beast on the fastbreak, probably the all-time best finisher at the rim, could hit FT's close to 80%, good post-game, good footwork, good touch from up close, he wasn't showing lots of range but don't act like he couldn't shoot plus he could create his own shot from close to the paint, very good rebounder, one of the greatest off-ball defenders ever, a good passer, clutch...

I think his ABA career shouldn't be held in similar ground as the NBA but it can't definitely be disregarded... For example, dude averaged 37.7/14.2/6.0/3.0/2.2 on 59% FG for the 1976 ABA Finals, against a Nuggets' team that went on to win 50 games in the NBA while being the #1 ranked defense (in 1977).

And when people say he was considerably worse when he went to the NBA, that's just false... He probably wasn't (couldn't be) quite as good due to being in a better, different league but he sacrificed a lot of his game for a Philly's team filled with scorers and ball-stoppers... Fact is that they immediately got to the NBA Finals (in 1977) and go look at what Erving did in the Playoffs, dude was killing it, especially in the Finals.

Plus, he still had some great NBA regular-seasons, mainly in 1980 and 1981.

And yea, he was the #1 superstar before Magic and Bird came around.

Top 15 would be the consensus view of Doc's all time ranking.

Sometimes I get frustrated because the revival of the NBA really began when the Lakers and Celtics were rejuvenated by the the rivalry early in the 80s. The NBA and ABA(professional basketball) as a whole were facing poor business prospects during the 70s, and Doc was keeping it afloat. He had his peak years during this era when the NBA and ABA were relegated to the sidelines, and a lot of what he accomplished were cast aside.

Lots of ifs, but if only the ABA was a more viable business, and the NBA followed through on it's original plan to have like a superbowl of basketball at the time, I am confident the ABA teams of the mid 70s could have defeated the NBA in a grand final at that point.

Then how would history now rewrite the record books and Doc's stats? He totally destroyed a Nugget team in 1976 who used the best defensive forward in either league on him, Bobby Jones. The very next year, the Nuggets were one of the best teams in the newly merged NBA, just a game or 2 from the Lakers who had the best record.

Doc produced top 10 goat achievements in the old ABA. The question of how great he truly was can be answered by how strong was the ABA at it's highest point, and many authorities at the time would say that by the time the 2 leagues merged, there was virtual parity between the 2 leagues.

Let's not forget the ABA was superior in inter league games from a point of 1971 up to 1976. Witnesses say the games were rough and pride was involved. Players were thrown out of games. Check the website, "Remember the ABA".

[bizil]

Bron or Bird is the GOAT NBA SF. But in PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL HISTORY, Doc has a great case as the GOAT SF. The ABA was an important enough entity for the NBA to absorb it.

And also use many of their concepts. Let's say hypothetically that the ABA stats were combined with the NBA stats. If that were to happen, Doc would be a top 10 GOAT. And the GOAT SF as we speak. He up over 30,000 points for starters. He took what Baylor did to the next level. And he's one of the RARE GUYS who can be the face of the league.

So for me, Doc is a top 10 GOAT in PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL HISTORY. As great as Bron and Bird are, their resume ISN'T better than Doc's total basketball resume. NBA wise Bron and Bird are superior, but not total basketball history. The ABA was too influential NOT TO INCLUDE IT in the grand scheme of American basketball.

[Clifton]

I tend to think that if Durant, Lebron, and Dr. J all played out their primes at the same time, and in similar circumstances, that Dr. J would be considered the best of the 3, by a nose.

Considering Lebron's ineptitude in an iso situation and questionable jumpshot, and Durant's average defense and passing, they are still #1 and #2 in the league right now, and top 15 players ever (Durant will be at least top 20, if he continues as he's going). My impression of Dr. J is that he didn't really have either of those weaknesses.

[Dr.J4ever]

Bron or Bird is the GOAT NBA SF. But in PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL HISTORY, Doc has a great case as the GOAT SF. The ABA was an important enough entity for the NBA to absorb it.

And also use many of their concepts. Let's say hypothetically that the ABA stats were combined with the NBA stats. If that were to happen, Doc would be a top 10 GOAT. And the GOAT SF as we speak. He up over 30,000 points for starters. He took what Baylor did to the next level. And he's one of the RARE GUYS who can be the face of the league.

So for me, Doc is a top 10 GOAT in PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL HISTORY. As great as Bron and Bird are, their resume ISN'T better than Doc's total basketball resume. NBA wise Bron and Bird are superior, but not total basketball history. The ABA was too influential NOT TO INCLUDE IT in the grand scheme of American basketball.

In many ways, more than the old pre-merger NBA, the spirit and substance of the old ABA lives today. I of course never saw the old ABA, but witnesses say the NBA today resembles the old ABA much more than the pre-merger NBA.

It is alive in above the rim athletic moves that was more prevalent in the ABA than the old NBA.

It is alive in 3 point shooting with more spacing than the clogged lanes of the half court ruled old NBA.

It is alive in today's finesse style of offense and defense, as opposed to the more ugly and physical defenses that lorded over certain periods in NBA history.

While the NBA was center dominated in the pre-merger days and even after both leagues consolidated, the old ABA was dominated by spectacular forwards and guards. The ABA's more free lance style offenses are alive today, and the founders of the ABA's 3 point shooting would have marveled at what it has spawned in today's NBA. I suspect the traditionalists of the old NBA would be horrified to watch the GS Warriors. :lol

I am hoping some future NBA Commissioner would bury the hatchet and see the point of finally combining the stats of the league that is so very alive in today's NBA.

Let's finally give justice to the players of the ABA whose accomplishments have been diminished by business rivalries, and not sports.

[ClipperRevival]

In many ways, more than the old pre-merger NBA, the spirit and substance of the old ABA lives today. I of course never saw the old ABA, but witnesses say the NBA today resembles the old ABA much more than the pre-merger NBA.

It is alive in above the rim athletic moves that was more prevalent in the ABA than the old NBA.

It is alive in 3 point shooting with more spacing than the clogged lanes of the half court ruled old NBA.

It is alive with today's finesse style of offense and defense, as opposed to the more ugly and physical defenses that lorded over certain periods in NBA history.

While the NBA was center dominated in the pre-merger days and even after both leagues consolidated, the old ABA was dominated by spectacular forwards and guards. The ABA's more free lance style offenses are alive today, and the founders of the ABA's 3 point shooting would have marveled at what it has spawned in today's NBA. I suspect the traditionalists of the old NBA would be horrified to watch the GS Warriors. :lol

I am hoping some future NBA Commissioner would bury the hatchet and see the point of finally combining the stats of the league that is so very alive in today's NBA.

Let's finally give justice to the players of the ABA whose accomplishments have been diminished by business rivalries, and not sports.

They do count ABA stats. Basketball reference always allows you to look at a player's ABA or NBA stats separately or together.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career.html

[Dr.J4ever]

They do count ABA stats. Basketball reference always allows you to look at a player's ABA or NBA stats separately or together.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career.html

Yes, but not the NBA.

I would like it to be like the NFL, whose stats today combine old AFL stats.

It is so unfair that players like Erving, Gervin, Malone, Thompson, and many others have been relegated to the lower ranks of scorers in NBA history, just because part of their careers were in the ABA.

To me, it's outrageous to see current stars supposedly pass a player in ranking that had part of their careers in the ABA .

[ClipperRevival]

Yes, but not the NBA.

I would like it to be like the NFL, whose stats today combine old AFL stats.

It is so unfair that players like Erving, Gervin, Malone, Thompson, and many others have been relegated to the lower ranks of scorers in NBA history, just because part of their careers were in the ABA.

To me, it's outrageous to see current stars supposedly pass a player in ranking that had part of their careers in the ABA .

Gervin and Malone only played 2 seasons in the ABA and their numbers were not that impressive. Thompson had only 1 season in the ABA but he was dominant. The only guy whose numbers suffer from the ABA is Erving because his numbers were so much better than his NBA numbers and he played 5 seasons there and won 3 MVPs and two championships.

Rick Barry is another guy whose numbers take a bit of hit because he averaged 30.5 ppg over 4 seasons in the ABA.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Doctor J was the absolute truth in the 70s. He was meh in the early to mid 80s though, and wouldn't have never won an NBA title if it weren't for Philly trading the slightly overrated Darryl Dawkins for prime Moses Malone.

[Dr.J4ever]

Gervin and Malone only played 2 seasons in the ABA and their numbers were not that impressive. Thompson had only 1 season in the ABA but he was dominant. The only guy whose numbers suffer from the ABA is Erving because his numbers were so much better than his NBA numbers and he played 5 seasons there and won 3 MVPs and two championships.

Rick Barry is another guy whose numbers take a bit of hit because he averaged 30.5 ppg over 4 seasons in the ABA.

Besides Erving and Barry, I'm pretty sure Gilmore and Dan Issel's standing in NBA history have been affected by their ABA years. I tell you there were others, but I'm not an expert in ABA history and the players who were particularly affected by the transition and their rankings in history.

One thing I did read about is that there were many good players in ABA history who never quite made it to the merger or who were past their prime. I am particularly talking about them too. If you want to know more about the ABA and what transpired, I would recommend the website " remember the ABA." Every inter league(NBA vs. ABA) game is documented there and the top scorers for each team. It's very interesting, but below is a guide on the differences between the scoring list of the ABA and NBA, and this doesn't even include rebounds, assists, and what not.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_career.html

[MiseryCityTexas]

Gervin and Malone only played 2 seasons in the ABA and their numbers were not that impressive. Thompson had only 1 season in the ABA but he was dominant. The only guy whose numbers suffer from the ABA is Erving because his numbers were so much better than his NBA numbers and he played 5 seasons there and won 3 MVPs and two championships.

Rick Barry is another guy whose numbers take a bit of hit because he averaged 30.5 ppg over 4 seasons in the ABA.

Gervin played on an extremely stacked yet underachieving Virginia Squires team. Minutes were hard to go around on that Squires team. That Squires team had players riding on the bench that became Allstars, and great role players later on in their careers when they went to other NBA/ABA teams. Gervin and Doctor playing together just didn't work because they were ball dominant/isolation players that both need the ball a majority of the time just to contribute. Pretty much like how Jerry Stackhouse and Grant Hill played together in the mid-to late 90s. Stackhouse and Hill as a duo were very mediocre in real life, but were cheesy as hell to use in NBA Live video games.:facepalm

[Dr.J4ever]

Doctor J was the absolute truth in the 70s. He was meh in the early to mid 80s though, and wouldn't have never won an NBA title if it weren't for Philly trading the slightly overrated Darryl Dawkins for prime Moses Malone.

I partially agree with you, but you have to understand that it was the era of the center. Doc was actually the first non-center to win the MVP award in 1981 since the Big O won it in the early 60s. That long.

Even Magic never won a title without Kareem.

Bird won his titles with Parish, Mchale, Maxwell, Walton.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Besides Erving and Barry, I'm pretty sure Gilmore and Dan Issel's standing in NBA history have been affected by their ABA years. I tell you there were others, but I'm not an expert in ABA history and the players who were particularly affected by the transition and their rankings in history.

One thing I did read about is that there were many good players in ABA history who never quite made it to the merger or who were past their prime. I am particularly talking about them too. If you want to know more about the ABA and what transpired, I would recommend the website " remember the ABA." Every inter league(NBA vs. ABA) game is documented there and the top scorers for each team. It's very interesting, but below is a guide on the differences between the scoring list of the ABA and NBA, and this doesn't even include rebounds, assists, and what not.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_career.html

Mel Daniels was a friggin superstar in the ABA, but instantly became a nonfactor after the league merger. :biggums:

[ClipperRevival]

Besides Erving and Barry, I'm pretty sure Gilmore and Dan Issel's standing in NBA history have been affected by their ABA years. I tell you there were others, but I'm not an expert in ABA history and the players who were particularly affected by the transition and their rankings in history.

One thing I did read about is that there were many good players in ABA history who never quite made it to the merger or who were past their prime. I am particularly talking about them too. If you want to know more about the ABA and what transpired, I would recommend the website " remember the ABA." Every inter league(NBA vs. ABA) game is documented there and the top scorers for each team. It's very interesting, but below is a guide on the differences between the scoring list of the ABA and NBA, and this doesn't even include rebounds, assists, and what not.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_career.html

Yup. Gilmore and Issel are two other notable players who put up significantly better numbers in the ABA.

[Dr.J4ever]

Mel Daniels was a friggin superstar in the ABA, but instantly became a nonfactor after the league merger. :biggums:

To be fair, in his last ABA season in 1974-75, he averaged 9.8ppg, and in 1975-76, he was playing in Italy.

In 1976-77 with the NY Nets of the NBA, he played 11 games and 3ppg.

He was clearly a declining player, and let's not forget that the 70s were the era of drugs. Not that I know he was on drugs. Just saying.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/danieme01.html

[Dr.J4ever]

Yup. Gilmore and Issel are two other notable players who put up significantly better numbers in the ABA.

Yes, the ABA had a faster pace, and a more wide open style which produced generally higher numbers. I did mention that in my other post.

I hope the style of play isn't being used by people to downgrade it's reputation, since it's been proven many times in NBA history that different styles can succeed and when they do clash, the winner is usually the team that could impose it's will on it's opponent.

[warriorfan]

I already conceded that he toned down his game given the superior talent surrounding him in the NBA.

But in the ABA, he averaged 28.7 ppg on 22.3 fga and 22.0 ppg on 17.1 fga in the NBA.

So you can't tell me his numbers didn't drop by a good margin in the NBA. Some of it due to the addiitional help but some of it due to the level of comp being better in the NBA.

Dr J's health was a bigger problem than the "better competition"

I'n 1976 when Dr J won the ABA Finals with his amazing display of dominance he did it vs the leagues best defense, the Nuggets, against the best defender in the league, Bobby Jones.

In 1977 the Nuggets join the NBA and guess which team has the best ranked defense? Nuggets did.

So when Dr J posted 37.7 points / 14.2 rebounds / 6.0 assists / 3 steal / 2.2 blocks on 59% FG during the 1976 ABA Championship he did it vs the best defensive team in the World.

[Marchesk]

Dr. J's combined stats /accolades:

3 titles, 4 MVPs, 30,000+ points, 10,000+ boards, 5000+ assists, 2000+ steals, 1900+ blocks.

That's slightly above Bird/Bran level.

[Dr.J4ever]

Dr. J's combined stats /accolades:

3 titles, 4 MVPs, 30,000+ points, 10,000+ boards, 5000+ assists, 2000+ steals, 1900+ blocks.

That's slightly above Bird/Bran level.

Enough said...:applause:

[Lebron23]

Lebron with the Dr. J layup.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRHztpTaUL0

[AnaheimLakers24]

Lebron with the Dr. J layup.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRHztpTaUL0
Doesnt levron have a small dinky?

[Lebron23]

Doesnt levron have a small dinky?


Why are you obsessed with another man's dick??

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Lebron with the Dr. J layup.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRHztpTaUL0

LeBron's game has the aesthetics of a dead moose. :oldlol:

If that was a "Dr J" layup, he might as well cease to exist.