is it safe to say Shaq "NEVER did sh*t" without an elite Kobe Bryant?

[kennethgriffin]

1993 - missed playoffs ( Nick Anderson 20 ppg )
1994 - swept 1st round ( Penny/Nick both 16.0 ppg )
1995 - swept in finals ( Penny Hardaway 21 ppg )
1996 - swept 3rd round ( Penny Hardaway 22 ppg ) *Quits on Orlando
1997 - lost 2nd round ( Eddie Jones 17 ppg )
1998 - swept 3rd round ( Eddie Jones 17 ppg ) *Traded by Lakers
2005 - lost 3rd round ( Dwyane Wade 24 ppg )
2006 - won ring as 3rd option ( Finals = Wade 34ppg, Toine 13.8ppg, shaq 13.7ppg )
2007 - swept 1st round ( Dwyane Wade 27 ppg ) *Quits on Miami
2008 - lost 1st round ( Amare Stoudemire 25 ppg )
2009 - missed playoffs ( Amare Stoudemire 21 ppg ) *Quits on Phoenix
2010 - lost 2nd round ( Lebron James 29 ppg ) *Quits on Cleveland
2011 - lost 2nd round ( Paul Pierce 19 ppg ) *Quits on Boston



what a f*cked up career


:biggums:


http://pic.pimg.tw/nba/536807b0d7a7ace6b81a374756e96aec.jpg



"The Big Journeyman"

[RRR3]

Yes. Kobe da GOAT GAWD :bowdown:

[ralph_i_el]

Bruh he beat MJ in the playoffs when Kobe was beating off to MJ in the playoffs.

[DonDadda59]

Shaq's career sans Bean>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bean's career sans Derek Fisher

[SouBeachTalents]

Yes, if you take 6 years away from a players prime/peak, their career doesn't look as good

[HylianNightmare]

.1 points?

[kennethgriffin]

compare this to with elite kobe


1999 - swept 3rd round ( Kobe Bryant 20 ppg ) *lockout asterisk
2000 - NBA champions ( Kobe Bryant 23 ppg )
2001 - NBA champions ( Kobe Bryant 28 ppg )
2002 - NBA champions ( Kobe Bryant 26 ppg )
2003 - lost 2nd round ( Kobe Bryant 30 ppg ) *Kobe injured in playoffs
2004 - lost in finals ( Kobe Bryant 24 ppg ) *Malone injured in finals


practically winning all 3 times they should have or when it would have counted

[kennethgriffin]

my bad.. it was actually 13.8 for toine and 13.7 for shaq


:lol

[Heavincent]

OP goes way overboard, but it is true that Kobe without Shaq >>> Shaq without Kobe

That said, Shaq was a more dominant player at his peak (best peak of all time), so it's weird that he didn't accomplish all that much without Kobe.

[kennethgriffin]

Yes, if you take 6 years away from a players prime/peak, their career doesn't look as good


take any 6 year period away from kobes career. no matter what kobe still ends up with multiple rings as a dominant force averaging near 30ppg in the playoffs


:lol

[ShawkFactory]

compare this to with elite kobe


1999 - swept 3rd round ( Kobe Bryant 20 ppg ) *lockout asterisk
2000 - NBA champions ( Kobe Bryant 23 ppg )
2001 - NBA champions ( Kobe Bryant 28 ppg )
2002 - NBA champions ( Kobe Bryant 26 ppg )
2003 - lost 2nd round ( Kobe Bryant 30 ppg ) *Kobe injured in playoffs
2004 - lost in finals ( Kobe Bryant 24 ppg ) *Malone injured in finals


practically winning all 3 times they should have or when it would have counted
Would have counted?

[plowking]

In what way, as a true basketball fan, can you come away with that conclusion, or the fact that Kobe is better than Shaq at basketball?

Are we all watching the same thing? Shaq is just a better player. Nothing will change that.

[SpecialQue]

Bruh he beat MJ in the playoffs when Kobe was beating off to MJ in the playoffs.

Nicely done. :applause:

but seriously fvck shaq

[Mr. Jabbar]

yes its safe

[catch24]

No.

You're free to quit making topics that generate Kobe hate, you lunatic.

[kennethgriffin]

No.

You're free to quit making topics that generate Kobe hate, you lunatic.


lol... you honestly think anyone who doesnt already hate kobe will suddenly change their opinion on him because of this thread?

you must think very highly of me


https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/xX6TaTw54TNlzRpIceFZGQ--/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2g9MjgyO3E9OTU7dz01MDA-/http://onwardstate.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/conan-bowing.gif

[catch24]

No. I honestly think you make Kobe and his fans look bad on a forum I frequent.

At some point you should re-think what you're posting, especially when attempting to get people to co-sign this nonsense.

[kennethgriffin]

In what way, as a true basketball fan, can you come away with that conclusion, or the fact that Kobe is better than Shaq at basketball?

Are we all watching the same thing? Shaq is just a better player. Nothing will change that.


kobe won back to back titles with an equal or lesser sidekick/team mate than what shaq had in

1993
1994
1995
1996
1997
1998
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010

and

2011



thats why

[kennethgriffin]

No. I honestly think you make Kobe and his fans look bad on a forum I frequent.

At some point you should re-think what you're posting, especially when attempting to get people to co-sign this nonsense.


you make yourself look bad pretending to think i give a damn what anyone thinks

[catch24]

you make yourself look bad pretending to think i give a damn what anyone thinks

That's probably why you come off as an illiterate, blabbering idiot.

Actual fans of the player and team don't want to be associated with clowns like you who throw shit at the wall, and hope it sticks.

[Obama=ROY]

No but It's safe to say OP is brain dead.

[dazzer87]

compare this to with elite kobe


1999 - swept 3rd round ( Kobe Bryant 20 ppg ) *lockout asterisk
2000 - NBA champions ( Kobe Bryant 23 ppg )
2001 - NBA champions ( Kobe Bryant 28 ppg )
2002 - NBA champions ( Kobe Bryant 26 ppg )
2003 - lost 2nd round ( Kobe Bryant 30 ppg ) *Kobe injured in playoffs
2004 - lost in finals ( Kobe Bryant 24 ppg ) *Malone injured in finals


practically winning all 3 times they should have or when it would have counted

where Kobe has single coverage.....and shaq was getting triple team...

[sportjames23]

In what way, as a true basketball fan, can you come away with that conclusion, or the fact that Kobe is better than Shaq at basketball?

Are we all watching the same thing? Shaq is just a better player. Nothing will change that.


Your first mistake right there--thinking of kenneth as a true basketball fan.

[TheBigVeto]

Bruh he beat MJ in the playoffs when Kobe was beating off to MJ in the playoffs.

This.

[SugarHill]

Bruh he beat MJ in the playoffs when Kobe was beating off to MJ in the playoffs.
most poetic thing ever :applause: :bowdown:

[20Four]

Bruh he beat MJ in the playoffs when Kobe was beating off to MJ in the playoffs.

and you were beating off to kobe beating off to mj in the playoffs

[oarabbus]

No but its safe to say Shaq carried Kobe multiple times

[stalkerforlife]

It's funny how people thought it was Kobe that needed Shaq.

The circumstances have literally proven to be the opposite.

[AnaheimLakers24]

No but its safe to say Shaq carried Kobe multiple times
Iggy

[outbreak]

is it safe to say kobe would be in prison right now if he wasn't a multi millionaire?

[ArbitraryWater]

OP goes way overboard, but it is true that Kobe without Shaq >>> Shaq without Kobe

That said, Shaq was a more dominant player at his peak (best peak of all time), so it's weird that he didn't accomplish all that much without Kobe.

Its actually very logical when you look at it year for year...

Not just is 95-99 Shaq better than any Kobe version, but he also has more elite seasons than Kobe. 1993-2005 > 2001-2003, 2006-2010

[BuffaloBill]

OP goes way overboard, but it is true that Kobe without Shaq >>> Shaq without Kobe

That said, Shaq was a more dominant player at his peak (best peak of all time), so it's weird that he didn't accomplish all that much without Kobe.


Is it weird?

[Nikola_]

i thought shaq acknowledges kobe and doesnt deny that. didnt he say he loved la more?

[ClipperRevival]

Since Shaq played with Kobe during his prime years (24-31), I would guess that most of his success would've happened during this time period. But Shaq went to a finals before his prime in 1995 and won a ring after his prime in 2006 without Kobe. You could've put a lot of other great wings in the same situation Kobe was in and Shaq still would've won rings.

Is it safe to say Kobe didn't do sh*t without Shaq or Gasol or Fish? Yup.

[sick_brah07]

is it safe to say kobe would be in prison right now if he wasn't a multi millionaire?


In all seriousness with the way kobe is he probably would have been successful in any way he went he has a crazy obsession with work... and im not the biggest fan on bean but you gotta give him credit in the dedication department

In regards to shaq i just tried to look up highlights of the finals for him against dallas and cant even find a highlight reel lol i honestly never realised how much he fell off that series

[kennethgriffin]

Since Shaq played with Kobe during his prime years (24-31), I would guess that most of his success would've happened during this time period. But Shaq went to a finals before his prime in 1995 and won a ring after his prime in 2006 without Kobe. You could've put a lot of other great wings in the same situation Kobe was in and Shaq still would've won rings.

Is it safe to say Kobe didn't do sh*t without Shaq or Gasol or Fish? Yup.


shaq was averaging prime numbers since his rookie season. his game never evolved much. he added 1 extra post move in almost 20 years of basketball

shaq was mainly a body/athlete

his prime was his physical prime



so what happened in 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998

he had more than enough of a 2nd option to get things done

he had great teams


even in 2005 he was solid

thats 7 years

then in 2008 and 2009 he had stacked teams in phoenix and flopped like a b*tch too




face it... a 13ppg ring behind antoine walker is WORTHLESS


he never legit won without kobe


kobe has multiple jordan style 30/6/5 runs to the title without shaq

[ralph_i_el]

and you were beating off to kobe beating off to mj in the playoffs

yeah, my hobby as a kid was hitchhiking up to Philly so I could look in black families windows and jack-off at night. Didn't get very far, being pre-pubescent.

[ClipperRevival]

shaq was averaging prime numbers since his rookie season. his game never evolved much. he added 1 extra post move in almost 20 years of basketball

shaq was mainly a body/athlete

his prime was his physical prime



so what happened in 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998

he had more than enough of a 2nd option to get things done

he had great teams


even in 2005 he was solid

thats 7 years

then in 2008 and 2009 he had stacked teams in phoenix and flopped like a b*tch too




face it... a 13ppg ring behind antoine walker is WORTHLESS


he never legit won without kobe


kobe has multiple jordan style 30/6/5 runs to the title without shaq

Ah shaddup you biased Kobe fan. I could care less about your opinions because you bring no objectivity to the table.

[DonDadda59]

:rant

We just gon make believe Beans wasn't an NBA player in '04-'07 or this whole decade? :biggums:

How many losing seasons does this man have without Derek Fisher on his squad?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

shaq was averaging prime numbers since his rookie season. his game never evolved much. he added 1 extra post move in almost 20 years of basketball

Sure it did. He was a better defender amid the Laker 3-peat years, and had a bit more feel with his back to the basket game, as per P-Jax.


shaq was mainly a body/athlete

his prime was his physical prime

so what happened in 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998

He faced better teams, had worse teammates, and wasn't as good as he was from 2000-02, his ACTUAL peak.

The WCF against Utah for example... NVE shot 23% and failed to average double figures in scoring while also having less points than shots. Eddie Jones, Shaq's second option, averaged just 15 ppg on 41% shooting. Hell, even Kobe shot 37% at ~10 ppg.

Shaq's a legend, but not a savior. You don't have these unrealistic expectations for Kobe, so why on Shaq?


face it... a 13ppg ring behind antoine walker is WORTHLESS

Great defense, great rebounding and this:

Everything starts with dealing with Shaquille," Dallas coach Avery Johnson says.

O'Neal has not only played smartly and efficiently but at times has been as dominant as ever. Despite double-teams, sometimes when he doesn't have the ball, he is averaging 14.6 points, 9.8 rebounds and 3.2 assists and shooting 66.7%.

"Everyone knows that he's 34 years old and he's not the young Shaq-be-nimble, Shaq-be-quick, but we know we wouldn't be at this point without him,"Wade says. "He's the biggest part of what we have here in Miami."

He wasn't a second option to Antoine Walker just because you said he is.

:confusedshrug:


he never legit won without kobe

Kobe never won without a big man
Kobe never won without PJax (Shaq has)

These arguments are never ending, because they're stupid to begin with.

[ShawkFactory]

shaq was averaging prime numbers since his rookie season. his game never evolved much. he added 1 extra post move in almost 20 years of basketball

shaq was mainly a body/athlete

his prime was his physical prime



so what happened in 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998

he had more than enough of a 2nd option to get things done

he had great teams


even in 2005 he was solid

thats 7 years

then in 2008 and 2009 he had stacked teams in phoenix and flopped like a b*tch too




face it... a 13ppg ring behind antoine walker is WORTHLESS


he never legit won without kobe


kobe has multiple jordan style 30/6/5 runs to the title without shaqNot Jordan style. Lebron style minus a couple rebounds.

[guy]

OP goes way overboard, but it is true that Kobe without Shaq >>> Shaq without Kobe

That said, Shaq was a more dominant player at his peak (best peak of all time), so it's weird that he didn't accomplish all that much without Kobe.

It's really not weird at all. Shaq's elite seasons were from about 93-06 while Kobe's were 00-13 i.e. ages 21-34 for both. Sounds about normal for most great NBA players that have good longevity. For Shaq, 8 of those 14 seasons came with Kobe. For Kobe, only 5 of those 14 seasons came with Shaq. On top of that, Shaq's best teams outside of those 8 seasons were probably the 95 and 96 Magic, who faced and lost to the 95 Rockets and 96 Bulls, two teams that were clearly better then any team Kobe's teams without Shaq beat and probably better then any of Kobe's teams without Shaq in general (definitely 96 Bulls).

So not weird at all. Has pretty much everything to do with timing. If Kobe is close to or on Shaq's level, he should've accomplished more given the situations.

[kennethgriffin]

Not Jordan style. Lebron style minus a couple rebounds.



a) kobes numbers were the same as 96 jordans run, and better overall than jordans 98 playoffs

b) you cant just look at stats. kobe had gasol. jordan had pippen, rodman, kukoc, and harper a season removed from 20ppg

[red1]

is it safe to say kobe would be in prison right now if he wasn't a multi millionaire?
I demand an answer to this question :rant

[kennethgriffin]

I demand an answer to this question :rant

yeah probly. he's black


but he never ends up in that colorado hotel for the surgery had he never played basketball

[ShawkFactory]

a) kobes numbers were the same as 96 jordans run, and better overall than jordans 98 playoffs

b) you cant just look at stats. kobe had gasol. jordan had pippen, rodman, kukoc, and harper a season removed from 20ppg
A) neither of those things are true

B) Kobe had other players on his team too. Naming more of Jordan's doesn't mean anything.

[guy]

These arguments are never ending, because they're stupid to begin with.

It's literally the dumbest argument there is, especially with an all-time great player. The idea that one of the greatest players couldn't have won as much or more in any other situation and just so happened to fall in the most ideal situation possible with the most ideal teammates/coaches is ridiculously stupid. There's literally millions of different situational scenarios a player could've played in. The problem is they only have one career. They can't replay their career under a different situation. So then you have idiots saying since this never happened, it was incapable of happening. It's so stupid.

[Dragonyeuw]

It's literally the dumbest argument there is, especially with an all-time great player. The idea that one of the greatest players couldn't have won as much or more in any other situation and just so happened to fall in the most ideal situation possible with the most ideal teammates/coaches is ridiculously stupid. There's literally millions of different situational scenarios a player could've played in. The problem is they only have one career. They can't replay their career under a different situation. So then you have idiots saying since this never happened, it was incapable of happening. It's so stupid.

The reality is, no GOAT's resume is perfect. You can nitpick anything you want under the sun, and we have a select few morons on the board who spend their days doing exactly that.

[kennethgriffin]

A) neither of those things are true

B) Kobe had other players on his team too. Naming more of Jordan's doesn't mean anything.

so youre saying kobes 2-peat late 2000's lakers >>>> 90's bulls ?

jordan fans are so dumb

they build up chicago as unbeatable/deep/best team ever

then say it was a 1 man show jordan carrying bums


make up your minds




btw

all time:

pippen >>>>>>>>>>>>> gasol
rodman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>odom
harper >>>>>>>> fisher
kukoc >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bynum ( 6ppg lol )
kerr >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sasha




and yes.. kobes 2 title runs are similar to 1996 jordan, better than 1998


i think jordan averaged 3 assists in 98..

[ShawkFactory]

so youre saying kobes 2-peat late 2000's lakers >>>> 90's bulls ?

jordan fans are so dumb

they build up chicago as unbeatable/deep/best team ever

then say it was a 1 man show jordan carrying bums


make up your minds




btw

all time:

pippen >>>>>>>>>>>>> gasol
rodman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>odom
harper >>>>>>>> fisher
kukoc >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bynum ( 6ppg lol )
kerr >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sasha




and yes.. kobes 2 title runs are similar to 1996 jordan, better than 1998


i think jordan averaged 3 assists in 98..
Who says I'm a Jordan fan? And no, that's not way I'm saying...

And you realize all of your ">>>" doesn't mean anything right? It's not objective, logical, or in any way a strong point in any argument. AND it completely eliminates context from the equation. Though this is something I believe you generally like to do lol.

Jordan in 98 averaged 33 a game. For someone who puts so much emphasis on scoring (I remember your Bird/Kobe thread lulz), you should pay your respects.

[kennethgriffin]

Who says I'm a Jordan fan?

And you realize all of your ">>>" doesn't mean anything right? It's not objective, logical, or in any way a strong point in any argument. AND it completely eliminates context from the equation. Though this is someone I believe you generally like to do lol.

Jordan in 98 averaged 33 a game. For someone who puts so much emphasis on scoring (I remember your Bird/Kobe thread lulz), you should pay your respects.


ok fine

basketball-reference.com HOF probability ranking:

pippen 38th all time > gasol 85th all time ... yup
rodman 90th all time > odom 319th all time... yup
harper 171st all time > fisher 215th all time... yup
kukoc 273rd all time > bynum 327th all time...yup
kerr 196th all time > sasha 622nd all time... yup

[ShawkFactory]

ok fine

basketball-reference.com HOF probability ranking:

pippen 38th all time > gasol 85th all time ... yup
rodman 90th all time > odom 319th all time... yup
harper 171st all time > fisher 215th all time... yup
kukoc 273rd all time > bynum 327th all time...yup
kerr 196th all time > sasha 622nd all time... yup
That's because they all have more rings playing with the more dominant guy. Not that hard to understand :confusedshrug:

And context still being ignored lol.

[kennethgriffin]

That's because they all have more rings playing with the more dominant guy. Not that hard to understand :confusedshrug:

And context still being ignored lol.


sorry bud. you lost. i pulled facts and you got ethered

:lol

[ShawkFactory]

sorry bud. you lost. i pulled facts and you got ethered

:lol
Huh? They're higher on your bullshit BBRef list because they won more rings with a more dominant player. Umm..sorry bud?

And that wasn't even the point of my argument in the first place

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It's literally the dumbest argument there is, especially with an all-time great player. The idea that one of the greatest players couldn't have won as much or more in any other situation and just so happened to fall in the most ideal situation possible with the most ideal teammates/coaches is ridiculously stupid. There's literally millions of different situational scenarios a player could've played in. The problem is they only have one career. They can't replay their career under a different situation. So then you have idiots saying since this never happened, it was incapable of happening. It's so stupid.

Exactly. Circumstance and context are especially key. When Kobe fans claim Shaq couldn't win as many as their guy post 2004, they neglect to mention Shaq being removed from his prime having already played 10+ years.

Its lazy analysis and mostly trolling, tbh.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Or Kobe never did sh!t without elite Shaq.

[kennethgriffin]

Or Kobe never did sh!t without elite Shaq.



http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/281819-2/Kobe+Bryant+laughs+as+he+holds+a+pair+of+NBA+champ ionship+trophies+alongside+Pau+Gasol+and+Derek+Fis her+on+Media+Day+2010.JPG

[rmt]

Shaq won a ring with the Miami Heat - nothing to do with Kobe.

[guy]

Exactly. Circumstance and context are especially key. When Kobe fans claim Shaq couldn't win as many as their guy post 2004, they neglect to mention Shaq being removed from his prime having already played 10+ years.

Its lazy analysis and mostly trolling, tbh.

What's worse is even the media does it. That's literally the reason why the consensus in the media is that Kobe is greater then Shaq.

[kennethgriffin]

Shaq won a ring with the Miami Heat - nothing to do with Kobe.


13.7ppg finals average. less than 13.8ppg old man toine shimmy walker


that doesnt even count as much as tim duncans 3rd option 15ppg title in 2014


and both are equally garbage IMO

but even tims is better


since kawhi nore tony were putting up 34 ppg in comparison to tims 15


shaq was a no show in the 2006 finals


and unlike kobe in 2000... the finals matchup WAS the most important series in 2006

[rmt]

13.7ppg finals average. less than 13.8ppg old man toine shimmy walker


that doesnt even count as much as tim duncans 3rd option 15ppg title in 2014


and both are equally garbage IMO

but even tims is better


since kawhi nore tony were putting up 34 ppg in comparison to tims 15


shaq was a no show in the 2006 finals


and unlike kobe in 2000... the finals matchup WAS the most important series in 2006

2000 Finals Kobe
15.6 pts / 4.2 asst 36.7%

2006 Finals
Shaq 13.7 pts / 10.2 rebs 60.7%
Walker 13.8 pts / 5.5 rebs 39.1%

Typical Kobe stan - ppg all that's important to you.

[ClipperRevival]

Like others have said, ANY all-time great can have their resume nitpicked and dissected over and discredited. This thread is just a sad, agenda driven thread by a biased Kobe fan.

[Hey Yo]

13.7ppg finals average. less than 13.8ppg old man toine shimmy walker


that doesnt even count as much as tim duncans 3rd option 15ppg title in 2014


and both are equally garbage IMO

but even tims is better


since kawhi nore tony were putting up 34 ppg in comparison to tims 15


shaq was a no show in the 2006 finals


and unlike kobe in 2000... the finals matchup WAS the most important series in 2006
Funny how you'll post another players "ppg finals avg." when using it against him, yet when it comes to Kobe's PPG you use just the first 3 rounds and never "just his Finals avg"

[kennethgriffin]

2000 Finals Kobe
15.6 pts / 4.2 asst 36.7%

2006 Finals
Shaq 13.7 pts / 10.2 rebs 60.7%
Walker 13.8 pts / 5.5 rebs 39.1%

Typical Kobe stan - ppg all that's important to you.


2000 wasnt the toughest series though

and like i said countless times. there is no 2000 nba finals without kobe


2006 WAS the toughest series.



and yes. walker shot a lower %... but there is absolutely no denying that antoine walker was THE 2nd option for that team

14 shots per game for toine
9 shots per game for shaq




shaq was highly efficient due to only taking wide open dunks and being a non factor offensively...

[kennethgriffin]

Funny how you'll post another players "ppg finals avg." when using it against him, yet when it comes to Kobe's PPG you use just the first 3 rounds and never "just his Finals avg"

for an eastern player the finals IS the finals


for a western player the finals is the WCF and/or 2nd round 99% of the time


2000 real nba finals = portland
2001 real nba finals = San Antonio
2002 real NBA finals = sacramento

[ShawkFactory]

for an eastern player the finals IS the finals


for a western player the finals is the WCF and/or 2nd round 99% of the time


2000 real nba finals = portland
2001 real nba finals = San Antonio
2002 real NBA finals = sacramento
Yet Duncan is somehow still the second fiddle in 2007 to you.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

for an eastern player the finals IS the finals


for a western player the finals is the WCF and/or 2nd round 99% of the time


2000 real nba finals = portland
2001 real nba finals = San Antonio
2002 real NBA finals = sacramento

The Spurs were swept, and the Sixers actually got a game/were closer to beating LA in the finals.

How many times can you be wrong before seriously thinking about deleting your posts. :oldlol:

[Dro]

Horrible thread......

[kennethgriffin]

Yet Duncan is somehow still the second fiddle in 2007 to you.


tony averaged 20ppg, 7 apg, 2 spg in the 2007 WCF

tim averaged 21ppg, 9 rpg in the 2007 WCF



tony ran point guard and practically scored the exact same amount

[ClipperRevival]

2000 wasnt the toughest series though

and like i said countless times. there is no 2000 nba finals without kobe


2006 WAS the toughest series.



and yes. walker shot a lower %... but there is absolutely no denying that antoine walker was THE 2nd option for that team

14 shots per game for toine
9 shots per game for shaq




shaq was highly efficient due to only taking wide open dunks and being a non factor offensively...

Jesus Christ man. You are so caught up in Walker averaging .1 ppg more than Shaq in the finals that you forget that Walker shot .391% and .270% from 3 in that series.

Meanwhile, Shaq gave the Heat 20/10 in the 3 series prior to the finals. Get over it man, he was clearly the 2nd best player on that team at 34 years old.

[kennethgriffin]

The Spurs were swept, and the Sixers actually got a game/were closer to beating LA in the finals.

How many times can you be wrong before seriously thinking about deleting your posts. :oldlol:


you're a f*cking idiot if you think the sixers winning a game was due to them being BETTER than san antonio and not because LA took 2 weeks off before the finals


someone ban this f*ggot for idiocy

[ShawkFactory]

tony averaged 20ppg, 7 apg, 2 spg in the 2007 WCF

tim averaged 21ppg, 9 rpg in the 2007 WCF



tony ran point guard and practically scored the exact same amount
And Duncan anchored the defense.

But the real finals was against the Phoenix Suns. 61 wins vs 51 against for the Jazz, whom they played in the WCF. Check the numbers there plz! Post them if you want. But only if you want.

You make things too easy. Hmmmm

[kennethgriffin]

Jesus Christ man. You are so caught up in Walker averaging .1 ppg more than Shaq in the finals that you forget that Walker shot .391% and .270% from 3 in that series.

Meanwhile, Shaq gave the Heat 20/10 in the 3 series prior to the finals. Get over it man, he was clearly the 2nd best player on that team at 34 years old.


shaq won a finals mvp over kobe while averaging basically 0.1 more ppg than kobe in the playoffs

they say kobe was carried

i'm just taking what people spew on here every day and throw it back at them

people rip kobe for his 2000 finals average due to being injured


shaq fully healthy averaged less in 2006


i take the feces they huck from their ass and re direct it back in their face


:roll: :roll: :roll:

[kennethgriffin]

And Duncan anchored the defense.

But the real finals was against the Phoenix Suns. 61 wins vs 51 against for the Jazz, whom they played in the WCF. Check the numbers there plz! Post them if you want. But only if you want.

You make things too easy. Hmmmm


most overused claim on ISH


:lol


running an entire offense >>>>> blocking 1-2 shots a game

[ShawkFactory]

most overused claim on ISH


:lol


running an entire offense >>>>> blocking 1-2 shots a game
Check the Suns stats plz

Or you can just admit you only do that because dumbass trolls call Kobe a second fiddle in the 3peat. Which, basically, makes you a dumbass troll as well.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

you're a f*cking idiot if you think the sixers winning a game was due to them being BETTER than san antonio and not because LA took 2 weeks off before the finals


someone ban this f*ggot for idiocy

Nobody uses that excuse. Philly gave the Lakers more trouble than the 2001 Spurs did.

You can cry, bitch and moan all you want, but those are the facts.

[Hey Yo]

for an eastern player the finals IS the finals


for a western player the finals is the WCF and/or 2nd round 99% of the time


2000 real nba finals = portland
2001 real nba finals = San Antonio
2002 real NBA finals = sacramento
dumb

[kennethgriffin]

dumb


oh i'm sorry. you must not have been alive for the past 16 years

[kennethgriffin]

Nobody uses that excuse. Philly gave the Lakers more trouble than the 2001 Spurs did.

You can cry, bitch and moan all you want, but those are the facts.


well atleast we know where you stand on the debate between duncans spurs and iversons sixers


tell us more old wise one

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

oh i'm sorry. you must not have been alive for the past 16 years

He's right. The 2001 finals were in fact, the 2001 finals.

The MVP and DPOY on the same team...gave the Lakers more trouble than a Spurs team did without its best perimeter player and hindered center.

Just a fact. :confusedshrug:

[Hey Yo]

oh i'm sorry. you must not have been alive for the past 16 years
Most certainly was alive Chico and was able to watch Kobe under-perform final after final after final after final after final against the so called Least.

:oldlol:

[guy]

for an eastern player the finals IS the finals


for a western player the finals is the WCF and/or 2nd round 99% of the time


2000 real nba finals = portland
2001 real nba finals = San Antonio
2002 real NBA finals = sacramento

This is such a dumb argument used all the time. Portland and San Antonio were not on another level then Indiana and Philly. Were they better? Maybe. But that situation has happened many times throughout history, not just with the 3peat Lakers. People can really only use that argument for 02 where the Kings and Nets were that lopsided.

[rmt]

And Duncan anchored the defense.

But the real finals was against the Phoenix Suns. 61 wins vs 51 against for the Jazz, whom they played in the WCF. Check the numbers there plz! Post them if you want. But only if you want.

You make things too easy. Hmmmm

Toughest opponent:
2007 Suns - 61 wins 21 losses - 1st in the NBA

2007 WCSF vs PHX
Duncan 26.8 pts / 13.7 rebs / 4.2 blks 57.3% - monster series where the 2007 championship was "won"
Parker 20.8 pts / 5.7 asst / 1 stl 45.1%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2007-nba-western-conference-semifinals-spurs-vs-suns.html

[ShawkFactory]

Toughest opponent:
2007 Suns - 61 wins 21 losses - 1st in the NBA

2007 WCSF vs PHX
Duncan 26.8 pts / 13.7 rebs / 4.2 blks 57.3% - monster series where the 2007 championship was "won"
Parker 20.8 pts / 5.7 asst / 1 stl 45.1%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2007-nba-western-conference-semifinals-spurs-vs-suns.html
Thank you! Knew Kenny wasn't gonna post it :roll:

[Doranku]

Toughest opponent:
2007 Suns - 61 wins 21 losses - 1st in the NBA

2007 WCSF vs PHX
Duncan 26.8 pts / 13.7 rebs / 4.2 blks 57.3% - monster series where the 2007 championship was "won"
Parker 20.8 pts / 5.7 asst / 1 stl 45.1%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2007-nba-western-conference-semifinals-spurs-vs-suns.html

Damn, Manu really came through after the Suns took back HCA and tied the series at 2 a piece. 26/10/3/2/1 in game 5 and 33/11/6/4 in game 6. :applause:

[ShawkFactory]

Damn, Manu really came through after the Suns took back HCA and tied the series at 2 a piece. 26/10/3/2/1 in game 5 and 33/11/6/4 in game 6. :applause:
He did.

[HurricaneKid]

but there is absolutely no denying that antoine walker was THE 2nd option for that team

14 shots per game for toine
9 shots per game for shaq


Shaq: 1st team All NBA

Antoine Walker: Not an All-Star. Hell, he only started 19 games in the regular season.

But no denying Walker was THE 2nd option :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :wtf: :hammerhead:

[Levity]

Nobody uses that excuse.

That's actually what a lot of people/analyst were crediting that first (and only) loss to, whether you agree with it or not.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

That's actually what a lot of people/analyst were crediting that first (and only) loss to, whether you agree with it or not.

At the time, I do remember people talking about it, but in hindsight, it really doesn't mean much and isn't a legitimate excuse IMO. LA nearly had a week off vs the Spurs and still kicked their ass. :confusedshrug: In the finals, outside of Game 1, all games were still closer than the ones vs San Antonio aka the "real finals", which would be my point of contention.

[ArbitraryWater]

He's right. The 2001 finals were in fact, the 2001 finals.

The MVP and DPOY on the same team...gave the Lakers more trouble than a Spurs team did without its best perimeter player and hindered center.

Just a fact. :confusedshrug:

kenneth must forget that the Sixers were pretty much an Horry 3 away from going up 2-1 at home

[oarabbus]

Iggy


GSW Champs b1tch :banana:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

kenneth must forget that the Sixers were pretty much an Horry 3 away from going up 2-1 at home

Kenneth was still contemplating on which team and player he could bandwagon next. Believe it or not, out here in Los Angeles, Iverson had a shit-load of fans. Every mofo bought his jersey and shoes. :lol

EDIT: Along with the MVP and DPOY, Philly also had the 6MOTY. :biggums:

[Young X]

Kenneth was still contemplating on which team and player he could bandwagon next. Believe it or not, out here in Los Angeles, Iverson had a shit-load of fans. Every mofo bought his jersey and shoes. :lol

EDIT: Along with the MVP and DPOY, Philly also had the 6MOTY. :biggums:And COY

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

And COY

http://s1.postimg.org/7tr9wc9vj/image.png

[kennethgriffin]

we've learned some new things on ISH today


kobe hater revisionist history has made the 2001 76ers a better team than Tim Duncans spurs or webbers kings


the 76ers that came 1 vince carter shot from being eliminated by the toronto raptors

the kings that took LA to 7 games a year later and people call the true nba champs

the spurs that won a title a few years later and a title a few years before. the man who people say is top 6-7 all time and the franchise/coach people say are one of the best of all time... is worse.... than a team that nearly got beat by...




























http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/89/8f/18/898f18c648513177cce23e92b814a1f4.jpg

[catch24]

^This idiot who masquerades as a Kobe/Lakers fan actually thinks basketball is a 1-on-1 sport. :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

^This idiot who masquerades as a Kobe/Lakers fan actually thinks basketball is a 1-on-1 sport. :oldlol:



^ this idiot who masquerades as a Lakers fan actually thinks basketball isnt predominantly driven by its individual stars


every single topic on ISH over the past decade has been about 1 guy vs another guy

when the f*ck was the last time anyone gave 2 f*cks about arguing over which franchise is better


i'm a fan of the lakers. but they dont hold more weight on my conscience than my favorite athletes

when kobes gone i'l continue to be a laker fan by default. but there is no way the brand itself can ever capture the attention of the masses like kobe has


the only way for the lakers to ever become as popular ever again is by getting a new individual to replace kobe


i've never said basketball is a 1 on 1 sport. but it is a 5 on 5 sport in which 1 man steals the spotlight


the 90's bulls without jordan are just a brand/logo


jordan or kobe can go anywhere and make that team the most popular in the league.

those teams however can't go anywhere and have anyone and still be as great


the lakers are nothing without

- mikan
- baylor
- west
- wilt
- kareem
- magic
- shaq
- Kobe




the stars ARE the lakers... without them theyre just another team

[catch24]

You're so thought provoking dude.


the man who people say is top 6-7 all time and the franchise/coach people say are one of the best of all time... is worse.... than a team that nearly got beat by...

Yes, one man is clearly better than a team.

:bowdown:

[SHAQisGOAT]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Never did shit in what way? He was an elite player before Kobe was even in the league and he was still great after he left the Lakers, not in his prime anymore but even still won a title as a great contributor...

We're gonna act like Shaq didn't have a top5 GOAT peak, while Kobe was "along for the ride"?
Kobe had some great contributions towards their titles but Shaq was CLEARLY the best player... That was a luxury for Kobe, not the other way around.

[guy]

^ this idiot who masquerades as a Lakers fan actually thinks basketball isnt predominantly driven by its individual stars


every single topic on ISH over the past decade has been about 1 guy vs another guy

when the f*ck was the last time anyone gave 2 f*cks about arguing over which franchise is better


i'm a fan of the lakers. but they dont hold more weight on my conscience than my favorite athletes

when kobes gone i'l continue to be a laker fan by default. but there is no way the brand itself can ever capture the attention of the masses like kobe has


the only way for the lakers to ever become as popular ever again is by getting a new individual to replace kobe


i've never said basketball is a 1 on 1 sport. but it is a 5 on 5 sport in which 1 man steals the spotlight


the 90's bulls without jordan are just a brand/logo


jordan or kobe can go anywhere and make that team the most popular in the league.

those teams however can't go anywhere and have anyone and still be as great


the lakers are nothing without

- mikan
- baylor
- west
- wilt
- kareem
- magic
- shaq
- Kobe




the stars ARE the lakers... without them theyre just another team

Ummmm by this logic you should think that all credit for Kobe's first 3 titles should go to Shaq.

[ShawkFactory]

^ this idiot who masquerades as a Lakers fan actually thinks basketball isnt predominantly driven by its individual stars


every single topic on ISH over the past decade has been about 1 guy vs another guy

when the f*ck was the last time anyone gave 2 f*cks about arguing over which franchise is better


i'm a fan of the lakers. but they dont hold more weight on my conscience than my favorite athletes

when kobes gone i'l continue to be a laker fan by default. but there is no way the brand itself can ever capture the attention of the masses like kobe has


the only way for the lakers to ever become as popular ever again is by getting a new individual to replace kobe


i've never said basketball is a 1 on 1 sport. but it is a 5 on 5 sport in which 1 man steals the spotlight


the 90's bulls without jordan are just a brand/logo


jordan or kobe can go anywhere and make that team the most popular in the league.

those teams however can't go anywhere and have anyone and still be as great


the lakers are nothing without

- mikan
- baylor
- west
- wilt
- kareem
- magic
- shaq
- Kobe




the stars ARE the lakers... without them theyre just another team
You care too much about the popularity it seems.

Although I can get behind having an athlete rule your conscience as a sports fan. I cared about Calvin Johnson more than the team. Although I was 12-14 at the time :lol

That's about it. I love Freddie Freeman but the Braves success is much more important to me. Same with Matty Ice, Julio, etc. vs the success of the Falcons.

I know plenty of people like you tho, so it's cool. As a new teenager I WAS like you.

[AI3Anthony]

This thread :facepalm

[KG215]

kobe won back to back titles with an equal or lesser sidekick/team mate than what shaq had in

1993
1994
1995
1996
1997
1998
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010

and

2011



thats why
I'm guessing you're basing "equal or lesser" on PPG and absolutely nothing else? Because looking at your list in the OP and matching it up with this list, you're even more f***ing stupid than I thought.

[ralph_i_el]

So back to Kenneth's original question.....it's not safe for you to say anything when you're THAT dumb.

[kennethgriffin]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Never did shit in what way? He was an elite player before Kobe was even in the league and he was still great after he left the Lakers, not in his prime anymore but even still won a title as a great contributor...

We're gonna act like Shaq didn't have a top5 GOAT peak, while Kobe was "along for the ride"?
Kobe had some great contributions towards their titles but Shaq was CLEARLY the best player... That was a luxury for Kobe, not the other way around.


by never did shit i mean shaq never won a legit title without kobe



3rd option finals role player 13ppg doesnt count



people give kobe enough sh*t on here just for being the #2 scorer at 25ppg



3rd option 13ppg is worse than duncan in 2014 as a 3rd man


the double standard is real.


"just when you think you've got the answers. i change the questions" - roddy piper .. R.I.P

[GIF REACTION]

heard kobe has a small one

[KG215]

^This idiot who masquerades as a Kobe/Lakers fan actually thinks basketball is a 1-on-1 sport. :oldlol:
He also thinks you meausre how good a player is and who's the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd options by PPG averages and PPG averages only because, you know, that's one raw statistic Kobe always stacks up well against almost any other all-time great.

[aj1987]

OP goes way overboard, but it is true that Kobe without Shaq >>> Shaq without Kobe

That said, Shaq was a more dominant player at his peak (best peak of all time), so it's weird that he didn't accomplish all that much without Kobe.
It's not really weird. MJ made sure that a bunch of HOF'ers and top 15-20 players retired ringless. 3rd year Shaq held his own against peak Hakeem in the Finals.

'93 - Rookie
'94 - Shaq sucked ass in the PO's
'95 - Defeated MJ and held his own against Hakeem
'96 - Lost to, probably, the GOAT team (Shaq and Penny were the only ones who showed up that series)
'97 - Lost to Malone and Stockton, who were on a better team and Shaq didn't perform to his level
'98 - Lost to Malone and Stockton, who were on a better team

Was past his prime after the '04 Finals.

[kennethgriffin]

It's not really weird. MJ made sure that a bunch of HOF'ers and top 15-20 players retired ringless. 3rd year Shaq held his own against peak Hakeem in the Finals.


i remember shaq getting faked out of his shoes countless times and being annihilated mercilessly in a 4 game sweep

but ok

revisionist history is a key part of ISH afterall

[kennethgriffin]

He also thinks you meausre how good a player is and who's the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd options by PPG averages and PPG averages only because, you know, that's one raw statistic Kobe always stacks up well against almost any other all-time great.





http://www.charlieglickman.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/you-keep-using-that-word-300x183.jpg



option is a strictly shot order

1st option gets the most looks to score

2nd option gets the 2nd most

3rd option gets the 3rd most

its strictly a shot/ppg thing



what youre thinking of is a value aspect overall with rebounds and defense included


dunno how a guy would be a 1st option blocker or rebounder


you f*cking moron

:roll:

[aj1987]

i remember shaq getting faked out of his shoes countless times and being annihilated mercilessly in a 4 game sweep

but ok

revisionist history is a key part of ISH afterall
:roll:

Good for you, dude. Just be thankful that Kobe always had a dominant big and the GOAT coach. Dude would've ended up as a glorified version of AI otherwise. A borderline top 50 player.

[kennethgriffin]

It's not really weird. MJ made sure that a bunch of HOF'ers and top 15-20 players retired ringless. 3rd year Shaq held his own against peak Hakeem in the Finals.

'93 - Rookie
'94 - Shaq sucked ass in the PO's
'95 - Defeated MJ and held his own against Hakeem
'96 - Lost to, probably, the GOAT team (Shaq and Penny were the only ones who showed up that series)
'97 - Lost to Malone and Stockton, who were on a better team and Shaq didn't perform to his level
'98 - Lost to Malone and Stockton, who were on a better team

Was past his prime after the '04 Finals.


more revisionist history. the same people will say he was the league mvp in 2005

:lol

[kennethgriffin]

:roll:

Good for you, dude. Just be thankful that Kobe always had a dominant big and the GOAT coach. Dude would've ended up as a glorified version of AI otherwise. A borderline top 50 player.


the word dominant gets thrown around pretty loosely these days

considering a 19ppg top 85 player on BBR.com with 1 starting allstar nod in his entire career ( going 0-16 as lead dog without kobe in the playoffs. with his only wins coming late in his career as the 3rd man to rose/butler ) is considered..."DOMINANT" now



i think theres only a handful of bigs all time that were considered that.


gasol isnt one of them you f*cking neanderthal cro magnon stone age encino man

:lol

[KG215]

http://www.charlieglickman.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/you-keep-using-that-word-300x183.jpg



option is a strictly shot order

1st option gets the most looks to score

2nd option gets the 2nd most

3rd option gets the 3rd most

its strictly a shot/ppg thing



what youre thinking of is a value aspect overall with rebounds and defense included


dunno how a guy would be a 1st option blocker or rebounder


you f*cking moron

:roll:
You're the f***ing moron who originally built his entire argument in this thread, saying Shaq had equal or more help without Kobe than Kobe did without Shaq and proceeded to list the PPG averages of Shaq's second options and nothing else. You then went on to use that premise to essentially say Dennis Scott in 1993 and Eddie Jones in 1996 were equal to or better than '09 and '10 Pau strictly because of their PPG averages.

If this thread is legit and you actually believe the bullshit argument you've built on 2nd grade logic then, like virtually every other thread you've ever created, you have some serious mental issues.

[aj1987]

more revisionist history. the same people will say he was the league mvp in 2005

:lol
He was an MVP candidate, but people fail to recognize that Wade becoming a superstar was also one of the reasons why Miami was that good in '05 (compared to the previous years). It wasn't just Shaq. Also, him being an MVP candidate in '05 doesn't mean that he was in his PRIME. MJ won MVP in '98 and it wasn't even close to being his prime. Dude was 35 years old.


the word dominant gets thrown around pretty loosely these days

considering a 19ppg top 85 player on BBR.com with 1 starting allstar nod in his entire career ( going 0-16 as lead dog without kobe in the playoffs. with his only wins coming late in his career as the 3rd man to rose/butler ) is considered..."DOMINANT" now

i think theres only a handful of bigs all time that were considered that.

gasol isnt one of them you f*cking neanderthal cro magnon stone age encino man

:lol
0 Rings and 0 success without a dominant big and the GOAT coach.

http://i.imgur.com/WKC3XYL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sgJ5ulr.jpg

[Dbrog]

Listing Mr Shimmy over Shaq? :facepalm

This makes me miss trolls from the past. What ever happened to BULLS? At least he was entertaining.

[kennethgriffin]

He was an MVP candidate, but people fail to recognize that Wade becoming a superstar was also one of the reasons why Miami was that good in '05 (compared to the previous years). It wasn't just Shaq. Also, him being an MVP candidate in '05 doesn't mean that he was in his PRIME. MJ won MVP in '98 and it wasn't even close to being his prime. Dude was 35 years old.


0 Rings and 0 success without a dominant big and the GOAT coach.

http://i.imgur.com/WKC3XYL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sgJ5ulr.jpg


gasol isnt dominant though

:lol

[kennethgriffin]

Listing Mr Shimmy over Shaq? :facepalm

This makes me miss trolls from the past. What ever happened to BULLS? At least he was entertaining.


i didnt list him over shaq



the nba did when they wrote the box scores

[kennethgriffin]

gasols career laker average is 17/9/3

gasols overall career average is 18/9/3

gasols career average before going to LA is 18/8/3

his playoff record without kobe is 6-22 ( 0-16 as #1 option )



if this is "dominant" ... then who isnt dominant... :lol


shaq had a better side kick in orlando, miami, phoenix cleveland and boston...

[kennethgriffin]

prime penny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gasol
prime wade >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gasol
prime nash/amare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gasol
prime lebron >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gasol
2011 pierce/garnett >>>>>>>>>>> gasol

[Dbrog]

i didnt list him over shaq



the nba did when they wrote the box scores

You said he was a 3rd option on that team dumbass. The troll is strong in you.

[Dro]

Kenneth must be going hard for a ban.......

[Beastmode88]

kobe couldn't do anything win a ring without a big man anyways.

[kennethgriffin]

You said he was a 3rd option on that team dumbass. The troll is strong in you.


option = scoring opportunities


finals FGA's per game:

Antoine walker = 14
Shaq = 9


thats massive...


antoine shot a ton of threes and shaq only scored on open dunks. which is why the PPG is similar


walker outscored shaq by a small margin. but whats evident and indisputable is that antoine walker was the 2nd option on that 2006 finals miami heat team


5 more shots a game


period

[kennethgriffin]

kobe couldn't do anything win a ring without a big man anyways.


nobody wins alone... i'm not saying kobe wins by himself...

but the fact is he only needed a top 85 player all time averaging 18ppg


shaq had numerous guys like this throughout his career without kobe and never managed to do anything with them


nick anderson - 20 ppg team mate ( misses the playoffs )


kobe wins titles with that kind of help


prime penny hardaway was near jordans level... shaq couldnt even win with him


nash/amare/marion?

not enough

lebron? not enough


pierce/allen/KG ? not enough

[BBallZen83]

Dumb, obsessive thread as usual. Gotta give ya credit for the pic of Shaq in all the colors of the rainbow. Love the creativity.

:cheers:

[kennethgriffin]

Dumb, obsessive thread as usual. Gotta give ya credit for the pic of Shaq in all the colors of the rainbow. Love the creativity.

:cheers:


"the big rainbow"


shaqs new nickname

:roll:

[BBallZen83]

"the big rainbow"


shaqs new nickname

:roll:
lol :cheers:

[I<3NBA]

I knew you'd see the light someday Kenneth. Shaq's ring as a sidekick doesn't count. After all, only the 1st option deserves credit, right?

So let's see.

Lebron 2, Kobe 2, Shaq 3.

Glad we cleared that up.

[ralph_i_el]

The problem with Kenneth is that he's so unintelligent that he doesn't understand that he can't trick the average person with any of his bogus logical inconsistencies. We could let him argue all day and he'd end up disproving himself. All he's doing is making Kobe look worse.


I'd much rather argue with 3ball. Both Kenneth and 3ball are stubborn and repetitive, but for the most part 3ball has a grasp of basic logic....which completely escapes Kenneth.


I honestly hope Kenneth is a successful person in real life, and that this is all pure trolling. The faint chance of that being true is what is holding my faith in humanity together.

[kennethgriffin]

I knew you'd see the light someday Kenneth. Shaq's ring as a sidekick doesn't count. After all, only the 1st option deserves credit, right?

So let's see.

Lebron 2, Kobe 2, Shaq 3.

Glad we cleared that up.


when the hell did anyone say that

:lol


where do you get 13ppg 3rd option = 24ppg 2nd option ( which is what kobe averaged over those 3 finals )

[kennethgriffin]

The problem with Kenneth is that he's so unintelligent that he doesn't understand that he can't trick the average person with any of his bogus logical inconsistencies. We could let him argue all day and he'd end up disproving himself. All he's doing is making Kobe look worse.


I'd much rather argue with 3ball. Both Kenneth and 3ball are stubborn and repetitive, but for the most part 3ball has a grasp of basic logic....which completely escapes Kenneth.


I honestly hope Kenneth is a successful person in real life, and that this is all pure trolling. The faint chance of that being true is what is holding my faith in humanity together.


i just b*ttf*cked all the people who said kobes 2nd option rings dont count by proving shaq was a 3rd option for his only ring without kobe


kobe is a legendary top 10 player without shaq...

just from 2005 and after kobe has:

the same rings as hakeem
the same finals as hakeem
the same mvps as hakeem
the same finals mvps as hakeem
more 1st team all nbas than hakeem
more 1st team all defenses than hakeem
a higher career average than hakeem
more game winning shots than hakeem
more starting allstar appearances than hakeem



hakeem is a top 10 player all time

meaning kobe without shaq is top 10 regardless




shaq on the other hand without kobe has a career reminiscent of bob mcadoo

:roll:

[ralph_i_el]

i just b*ttf*cked all the people who said kobes 2nd option rings dont count by proving shaq was a 3rd option for his only ring without kobe


kobe is a legendary top 10 player without shaq...

just from 2005 and after kobe has:

the same rings as hakeem
the same finals as hakeem
the same mvps as hakeem
the same finals mvps as hakeem
more 1st team all nbas than hakeem
more 1st team all defenses than hakeem
a higher career average than hakeem
more game winning shots than hakeem
more starting allstar appearances than hakeem



hakeem is a top 10 player all time

meaning kobe without shaq is top 10 regardless




shaq on the other hand without kobe has a career reminiscent of bob mcadoo

:roll:

yes, Shaq without 6 years of his prime does have a much weaker resume :facepalm. MJ did nothing without Pippen. Kobe did nothing without a HoF center. The difference is, Shaq has 3 rings as the man, MJ has 6, and Kobe has 2.

except when we put together top-10 lists, we consider how good a player actually was. We don't just throw together a list of achievements cherry picked to make one guy look good. I'd rather have Hakeem than Kobe.

Kobe is a second-tier all time great who got really lucky. Lucked into great teammates, lucked into the superstar spotlight of LA, lucked into the GOAT coach who could tame some of his chucker tendencies, lucked into no major injuries.

When all's said and done, there are more than 10 guys I'd want on the court for my squad before I picked Kobe. Most informed basketball fans feel that way.

In terms of pure basketball impact, Kobe is on the Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Isiah Thomas, John Stockton, Kevin Garnett tier. Great player no doubt, but he's not on the LeBron, Magic, Bird, Shaq etc etc tier. Most definitely not on the MJ tier (which is MJ and Wilt I guess).


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1981&year_max=2015&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&draft_year=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

^this is a list of every player's seasons since 1980, sorted in descending order by winshares. Kobe's BEST season is 59th on the list. LeBron has 7 seasons higher than Kobe's best. MJ has 10. Shaq has 2, Magic has 5, Bird has 3, Dirk has 4, CP3 has 3, Kevin Durant has 3.

Keep in mind that Kobe has played more seasons than ALL of those guys.

KOBE IS LUCK AND LONGEVITY.

[kennethgriffin]

except when we put together top-10 lists, we consider how good a player actually was. We don't just throw together a list of achievements cherry picked to make one guy look good. I'd rather have Hakeem than Kobe.

Kobe is a second-tier all time great who got really lucky. Lucked into great teammates, lucked into the superstar spotlight of LA, lucked into the GOAT coach who could tame some of his chucker tendencies, lucked into no major injuries.

When all's said and done, there are more than 10 guys I'd want on the court for my squad before I picked Kobe. Most informed basketball fans feel that way.

In terms of pure basketball impact, Kobe is on the Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Isiah Thomas, John Stockton tier. Great player no doubt, but he's not on the LeBron, Magic, Bird, Shaq etc etc tier. Most definitely not on the MJ tier (which is MJ and Wilt I guess)

we who?


because if you ask legends, current players, coaches, people in and around the sport, commentators, analysts, writers, and the majority of people on earth on or offline ... kobe is majority wise placed on the top 10 players of all time. allot have him top 5. some big names have him top 2-3



you're just too r*tarded to accept any of these and go based on your opinion mixed with maybe a few of your internet friends


you pathetic excuse for a hermaphrodite with a giant cl*t and outer ovaries covered with a testicle sack

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Oops, guess my post was deleted...


prime penny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gasol
prime wade >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gasol
prime nash/amare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gasol
prime lebron >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gasol
2011 pierce/garnett >>>>>>>>>>> gasol

All those guys >>> 2000 Kobe

[kennethgriffin]

Oops, guess my post was deleted...



All those guys >>> 2000 Kobe


did any of those guys outscore, out rebound, out block, out assist prime shaquille oneal in the most important game of shaqs career?


and wtf kind of defense for shaq is it to say shaq lost with more help? lol

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

did any of those guys outscore, out rebound, out block, out assist prime shaquille oneal in the most important game of shaqs career?

I don't think any of those guys were outscored by Austin Croshere in the finals, if that's what you're asking? :confusedshrug:

Shaq basically won a ring with Kobe being the equivalent of a role player. Damn.

[KG215]

i just b*ttf*cked all the people who said kobes 2nd option rings dont count by proving shaq was a 3rd option for his only ring without kobe

:facepalm

It's amazing how stupid you are. There's more than just one round in the playoffs, dumbass. For the entire 2006 playoff run Shaq averaged 12.7 FGA/game compared to 12.3 FGA/game for Antoine Walker. Shaq also averaged 18.4 PPG on 61% shooting while Walker averaged 13.3 PPG on 40% shooting. Shaq was clearly Miami's second best player/second option during that season and playoff run, not Walker.

Now get the f**k outta here with your bullshit, dumbass agenda.

[kennethgriffin]

I don't think any of those guys ( nash/amare ) were outscored by Austin Croshere in the finals, if that's what you're asking? :confusedshrug:

Shaq basically won a ring with Kobe being the equivalent of a role player. Damn.

you should really think before you speak

[kennethgriffin]

:facepalm

It's amazing how stupid you are. There's more than just one round in the playoffs, dumbass. For the entire 2006 playoff run Shaq averaged 12.7 FGA/game compared to 12.3 FGA/game for Antoine Walker. Shaq also averaged 18.4 PPG on 61% shooting while Walker averaged 13.3 PPG on 40% shooting. Shaq was clearly Miami's second best player/second option during that season and playoff run, not Walker.

Now get the f**k outta here with your bullshit, dumbass agenda.


man you guys are really biting hard on my reverse psychology

:lol


ive been preaching the entire playoffs in shaq/kobe debates since 2009... and all it takes is exposing shaqs 2006 ring to get people to admit what i said all those years was true

if only i thought of it sooner

[ralph_i_el]

we who?


because if you ask legends, current players, coaches, people in and around the sport, commentators, analysts, writers, and the majority of people on earth on or offline ... kobe is majority wise placed on the top 10 players of all time. allot have him top 5. some big names have him top 2-3



you're just too r*tarded to accept any of these and go based on your opinion mixed with maybe a few of your internet friends


you pathetic excuse for a hermaphrodite with a giant cl*t and outer ovaries covered with a testicle sack

I come with facts....you come with disses bout testicle sacks

Btw, if I change my search criteria to "Win shares per-48 for players averaging 30mpg+".....KOBE DOESN'T EVEN HAVE ONE SEASON IN THE TOP 100.

luck+longevity

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

you should really think before you speak

Are those guys NOT better than Austin Croshere? Because in the finals, DNA suggests Kobe was his blood relative. :lol

Shaq won a ring and FMVP with role players. GOAT peak :bowdown:

[kennethgriffin]

Are those guys NOT better than Austin Croshere? Because in the finals, DNA suggests Kobe was his blood relative. :lol

Shaq won a ring and FMVP with a role players. Unprecedented stuff.


didnt you just say nash/amare have more finals points than austin croshere

you need to stop talking now

[ralph_i_el]

we who?


because if you ask legends, current players, coaches, people in and around the sport, commentators, analysts, writers, and the majority of people on earth on or offline ... kobe is majority wise placed on the top 10 players of all time. allot have him top 5. some big names have him top 2-3



you're just too r*tarded to accept any of these and go based on your opinion mixed with maybe a few of your internet friends


you pathetic excuse for a hermaphrodite with a giant cl*t and outer ovaries covered with a testicle sack

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...t=&order_by=ws

^this is a list of every player's seasons since 1980, sorted in descending order by winshares. Kobe's BEST season is 59th on the list. LeBron has 7 seasons higher than Kobe's best. MJ has 10. Shaq has 2, Magic has 5, Bird has 3, Dirk has 4, CP3 has 3, Kevin Durant has 3.

Keep in mind that Kobe has played more seasons than ALL of those guys.

KOBE IS LUCK AND LONGEVITY.


a quick google tells me that Kobe makes about half of top-10 lists, and he's never in the top-5. On sites dedicated to basketball, he is not in the top-10 the majority of the time.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

didnt you just say nash/amare have more finals points than austin croshere

you need to stop talking now

I think you need to read again. Once more, they weren't outscored by your boy Austin during the finals. Kobe was. :cheers:

Too bad Nash and Amare didn't have the luxury of playing with MDE.

[kennethgriffin]

I think you need to read again. Once more, they weren't outscored by your boy Austin during the finals. Kobe was. :cheers:

Too bad Nash and Amare didn't have the luxury of playing with MDE.


i just checked...

kobe averaged 15.6 ppg

austin averaged 15.2 ppg


your own dumb agenda was a lie



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


what a f*cking moron

[ralph_i_el]

Kobe has never led the league in Win Shares. In fact, he's never even been in the top 3 for a season. You can't say that about any other top-10 candidate

i just checked...

kobe averaged 15.6 ppg

austin averaged 15.2 ppg


your own dumb agenda was a lie



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


what a f*cking moron
lol you think Kobe scoring 15.6ppg in the finals helps your arguement :facepalm

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe has never led the league in Win Shares. In fact, he's never even been in the top 3 for a season.


kobe had more winshares than shaq in the 2001 playoffs


does that mean kobe > shaq?


you analytic geeks dont even pay attention to your own shit unless they fit your agenda

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe has never led the league in Win Shares. In fact, he's never even been in the top 3 for a season. You can't say that about any other top-10 candidate

lol you think Kobe scoring 15.6ppg in the finals helps your arguement :facepalm


the croshere thing wasnt my argument

:lol


my argument was that kobe was injured and scored just 2 points before coming out a few minutes into the game. dropping his 19ppg averge down to 15.6


that and there wouldnt be a finals unless kobe saves shaqs career in WCF game 7 ( the most important game in shaqs life ... in which 21 year old kobe bryant out scored, out rebounded, out blocked and out assisted PRIME shaq in his MVP season.. )

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

i just checked...

kobe averaged 15.6 ppg

austin averaged 15.2 ppg


your own dumb agenda was a lie



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


what a f*cking moron

http://s12.postimg.org/5p8wy1v9p/BTg_Oby_JCQAA_Cdz.jpg

Hold this L, borracho.

Now that we've accepted Austin Croshere > Kobe, ISH can officially conclude that Shaq won with role players. :cheers:

[kennethgriffin]

http://s12.postimg.org/5p8wy1v9p/BTg_Oby_JCQAA_Cdz.jpg

Hold this L, borracho.

Now that we've accepted Austin Croshere > Kobe, ISH can officially conclude that Shaq won with role players. :cheers:


so you changed from PPG to total points?


lol who cares if a guy who played more games scored more points


kobe > jordan now? kobe has more total points in more games...


thats your argument right?


ok ... i'l take it


:lol

kobe > jordan



i swear. these guys make it too easy for me these days... the trolling has dropped off allot on ISH

[ralph_i_el]

kobe had more winshares than shaq in the 2001 playoffs


does that mean kobe > shaq?


you analytic geeks dont even pay attention to your own shit unless they fit your agenda

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=Y&year_min=2001&year_max=2003&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&draft_year=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws


playoff win shares during the Lakers 3peat. Kobe has the 00-01 season that you mentioned (where he beat shaq by .1 winshare). In 02-03 Shaq had 2.5ws and kobe had 1.5ws. in 01-02 Shaq had 3.8 and Kobe had 2.6

That's with Kobe playing significantly more minutes. Winshares per-48 isn't even close.



you're weak as **** Kenny

[KG215]

i just checked...

kobe averaged 15.6 ppg

austin averaged 15.2 ppg


your own dumb agenda was a lie

So is yours.

You claim Shaq was a third option for his 2006 ring.

2006 Playoffs:

Shaq: 12.7 FGA/game, 18.4 PPG, 61% FG

Antoine: 12.3 FGA/game, 13.3 PPG, 40% FG


Now quit backpedaling and acting like this was some sort of reverse psychology bullshit. We all know you're way too stupid to pull off something like that. And how, exactly, did you expose Shaq's 2006 ring? He was, without question, Miami's second best player and second option, and a damn good/elite second option.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

so you changed from PPG to total points?


lol who cares if a guy who played more games scored more points


kobe > jordan now? kobe has more total points in more games...


thats your argument right?


ok ... i'l take it


:lol

kobe > jordan



i swear. these guys make it too easy for me these days... the trolling has dropped off allot on ISH

Never changed anything. All I said was he outscored Kobe who ALSO played more minutes :oldlol:

BTW, one series =/= entire career totals with different sample sizes

In that one series, he bested Kobe. Ain't no shame in that. Austin was ballin hard man. :pimp:

[kennethgriffin]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=Y&year_min=2001&year_max=2003&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&draft_year=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws


playoff win shares during the Lakers 3peat. Kobe has the 00-01 season that you mentioned (where he beat shaq by .1 winshare). In 02-03 Shaq had 2.5ws and kobe had 1.5ws. in 01-02 Shaq had 3.8 and Kobe had 2.6

That's with Kobe playing significantly more minutes. Winshares per-48 isn't even close.


so who was a better player in 2001? kobe or shaq

[kennethgriffin]

So is yours.

You claim Shaq was a third option for his 2006 ring.

2006 Playoffs:

Shaq: 12.7 FGA/game, 18.4 PPG, 61% FG

Antoine: 12.3 FGA/game, 13.3 PPG, 40% FG


Now quit backpedaling and acting like this was some sort of reverse psychology bullshit. We all know you're way too stupid to pull off something like that. And how, exactly, did you expose Shaq's 2006 ring? He was, without question, Miami's second best player and second option, and a damn good/elite second option.


youre too stupid to realize my shaq finals argument is just a kobe haters own agenda thrown back at them


get a clue

i'm just making fun of how dumb you people are. obviously i know shaq was above antoine walker. jesus f*cking christ how f*cking stupid are you people

[kennethgriffin]

Never changed anything. All I said was he outscored Kobe who ALSO played more minutes :oldlol:

BTW, one series =/= entire career totals with different sample sizes

In that one series, he bested Kobe. Ain't no shame in that. Austin was ballin hard man. :pimp:


so kobe bested MJ ? aint no shame in it either

:lol


i'l admit croshere out performed kobe in the 2000 nba finals if you admit kobe outperformed jordan in their careers

[aj1987]

that and there wouldnt be a finals unless kobe saves shaqs career in WCF game 7 ( the most important game in shaqs life ... in which 21 year old kobe bryant out scored, out rebounded, out blocked and out assisted PRIME shaq in his MVP season.. )
Kobe averaged 19.7 PPG on 43.2% outside the last game. With a chance to go 2-0, Kobe stunk it up and put up 12 points on 2-9 shooting. With a chance to close out the series in 5, Kobe put up 17 points on 4-13 shooting along with 6 TOV's and fouled out. Shaq still put up 31/21/3 in that Game 5. Essentially, if Kobe actually played, somewhat, decently, they would've won in 5 and would not have needed games 6/7. He did come up big in those two games though.


Again, without a dominant big, Kobe is a borderline top 50 player. AI type player.

[Smoke117]

Kenneth having his usual summer meltdown...nice.

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe averaged 19.7 PPG on 43.2% outside the last game. With a chance to go 2-0, Kobe stunk it up and put up 12 points on 2-9 shooting. With a chance to close out the series in 5, Kobe put up 17 points on 4-13 shooting along with 6 TOV's and fouled out. Shaq still put up 31/21/3 in that Game 5. Essentially, if Kobe actually played, somewhat, decently, they would've won in 5 and would not have needed games 6/7. He did come up big in those two games though.


Again, without a dominant big, Kobe is a borderline top 50 player. AI type player.


and its all for not unless kobe saves the day

2000 WCF game 7 MVP ( shaqs most important game in his whole life ) = KOBE BEAN BRYANT

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

so kobe bested MJ ? aint no shame in it either

:lol


i'l admit croshere out performed kobe in the 2000 nba finals if you admit kobe outperformed jordan in their careers

If we're completely disregarding volume, LeBron is on his way of besting everyone. He's already beating most of Kobe's "youngest to" awards. :confusedshrug:

The fact you're ready to concede the bold already tells me I've swayed your opinion. Hah!

[kennethgriffin]

Kenneth having his usual summer meltdown...nice.


i'm destroying multiple kobe hating trolls at their own game


they rip on kobes finals and discount entire playoffs

i turn it back on them with an antoine walker > shaq finals debate


they shit their pants

i win


:lol

[ralph_i_el]

so who was a better player in 2001? kobe or shaq

They both had .260 ws/48, so I wouldn't be able to use that as effective evidence either way. I'm going with Shaq. You could argue that one either way, Kobe played his ass off. Shaq had to match up with the DPOY in the finals. Kobe was guarded by Eric Snow iirc....

[kennethgriffin]

If we're completely disregarding volume, LeBron is on his way of besting everyone. He's already beating most of Kobe's "youngest to" awards. :confusedshrug:

The fact you're ready to coneded the bold is enough for me to know I've already swayed your opinion. Hah.


and if lebron had a winning finals record in his 6 trips... he might have a case


too bad he f*cked that one up


:oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

They both had .260 ws/48, so I wouldn't be able to use that as effective evidence either way. I'm going with Shaq. You could argue that one either way, Kobe played his ass off. Shaq had to match up with the DPOY in the finals. Kobe was guarded by Eric Snow iirc....


ah i see... so you only use your own biased formula if it fits your agenda


:oldlol:

[ralph_i_el]

ah i see... so you only use your own biased formula if it fits your agenda


:oldlol:

wut:facepalm THEY TIED BY WS/48. Total WS was too close to call. Shaq was defended by Mutumbo. Kobe was defended by Eric Snow. Tie breaker: Shaq

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

and if lebron had a winning finals record in his 6 trips... he might have a case


too bad he f*cked that one up


:oldlol:

LeBron didn't have the luxury of playing with Shaq, arguably the greatest peak player, and the best player for 3/4 of his championships.

I mean, the fact Shaq won a title with ROLE players says it all. :bowdown:

[ralph_i_el]

and if lebron had a winning finals record in his 6 trips... he might have a case


too bad he f*cked that one up


:oldlol:

hmmmm, maybe if LeBron had prime Shaq instead of Big-Z, or actually had his 2nd and 3rd best teammates on the court, things would be different.

Kobe= Luck and Longevity

[KG215]

ah i see... so you only use your own biased formula if it fits your agenda


:oldlol:
:oldlol:

How the f**k is that any different when you use only PPG to compare players and disregard virtually every other aspect of basketball?

[catch24]

Good lord, griffin is getting shitted on.

As a Lakers and Kobe fan, I hope y'all don't take this clown seriously. Guy is clearly a fraud with intent to troll others. I post regularly on Lakers ground, and can assure you nobody carries themselves the way this lunatic does. SMH.

[kennethgriffin]

Good lord, griffin is getting shitted on.

As a Lakers and Kobe fan, I hope y'all don't take this clown seriously. Guy is clearly a fraud with intent to troll others. I post regularly on Lakers ground, and can assure you nobody carries themselves the way this lunatic does. SMH.

i got 12 pages outa this


so it looks like i'm the one who shat on all of you in retrospect



if what i said held absolutely no merit the topic would have been squashed immediately



but i took a kobe haters agenda.. twisted it around and shoved it back up all your a**'s and made you my b*tch for 12 f*cking pages


eat it :oldlol:

[aj1987]

and its all for not unless kobe saves the day

2000 WCF game 7 MVP ( shaqs most important game in his whole life ) = KOBE BEAN BRYANT
:roll:

I see that you don't have any legit response. Admit it, dude. The dude who you jack off to everyday almost cost them a title. In '04 as well.

[ShawkFactory]

i got 12 pages outa this


so it looks like i'm the one who shat on all of you in retrospect



if what i said held absolutely no merit the topic would have been squashed immediately



but i took a kobe haters agenda.. twisted it around and shoved it back up all your a**'s and made you my b*tch for 12 f*cking pages


eat it :oldlol:
Does the "Kobe hater agenda" exist because of people like you or the other way around? More confusing than the chicken/egg fiasco.

[ralph_i_el]

i got 12 pages outa this


so it looks like i'm the one who shat on all of you in retrospect



if what i said held absolutely no merit the topic would have been squashed immediately



but i took a kobe haters agenda.. twisted it around and shoved it back up all your a**'s and made you my b*tch for 12 f*cking pages


eat it :oldlol:
it was squashed immediately. Then you gave us more to squash :facepalm

[kennethgriffin]

:roll:

I see that you don't have any legit response. Admit it, dude. The dude who you jack off to everyday almost cost them a title. In '04 as well.

kobe came up big in the most important games during the 2000 playoffs

shaq got scared, underperformed, deferred, fouled out in the most important games during the 2000 playoffs

[305Baller]

Not safe.

[kennethgriffin]

round 1 2000 nba playoffs vs sacramento ( went all 5 games )

kobe = 28ppg

round 2 2000 nba playoffs vs suns

kobe = hit game winner in game 2 at home. suns should have stole home court

round 3 2000 nba playoffs vs portland

game 7:
team leader in points 25
team leader in rebounds 11
team leader in assists 7
team leader in blocks 4

round 4 2000 nba playoffs vs indiana

game 4: indiana should have won with shaq fouled out. indiana won game 3 with kobe out. were about to take game 4 and all the momentum

then this happened

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSdhzK-ud3U

[HurricaneKid]

Lets give Kobe "elite" status from 99-00 through 11-12. Its a generous period but he was a great player for a long time.

So essentially you are taking away yr 27-31 seasons which are generally the peak years for a big man (g are a year or two earlier).

So WITHOUT those Kobe years Shaq:

10x time All Star
9x ALL NBA player
Championship as 1st Team All NBA player
7x Top 3 in PER
11x top 4 in FG%
6x led league in FG%
2x Led NBA in points
Made playoffs 12x, made it out of the 1st round 8x (missed one season when he was 36)

Take away a threepeat from him and he is STILL better than a lot of high end HoFers.

[kennethgriffin]

Lets give Kobe "elite" status from 99-00 through 11-12. Its a generous period but he was a great player for a long time.

So essentially you are taking away yr 27-31 seasons which are generally the peak years for a big man (g are a year or two earlier).

So WITHOUT those Kobe years Shaq:

12x lost with better sidekicks than Gasol
4x Ring chaser
5x Swept
10x time All Star
9x ALL NBA player
0x ALL Defensive player
Championship as 13ppg third option
7x Top 3 in PER
11x top 4 in FG%
6x led league in FG%
2x Led NBA in points
Made playoffs 12x, made it out of the 1st round 8x (missed one season when he was 36)



fixed

[HurricaneKid]

1st team All-NBA player is now 3rd option to a guy that started 19 games.

A good troll wouldn't be so patently and willfully stupid as you repeatedly are.

[Dresta]

2000 Finals Kobe
15.6 pts / 4.2 asst 36.7%

2006 Finals
Shaq 13.7 pts / 10.2 rebs 60.7%
Walker 13.8 pts / 5.5 rebs 39.1%

Typical Kobe stan - ppg all that's important to you.
Yeah, but don't ignore that he shot 14 of 48 from the ft line, which was why he was barely shooting. He was a liability for much of the finals.

[aau]

damn

hung these fooz with they own rope


time to wake'm up cuzzin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVQOO3MWyFQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-m2usrfUv0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hn9hLOljJI&list=RDt_IwRm9mHM0&index=3

[Lebron23]

He also never won a playoffs series without a dominant Big man.

[T_L_P]

Kenneth's Finals logic is hilarious.

For Shaq he was the third best player for the whole year because he was third in scoring in the Finals, yet he wants to ignore Kobe being the clear 2nd leading scorer in the 01 Finals and call him the team's best player overall.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I bet if Kobe never won without Shaq these types of threads would be popping up everyday about how Kobe couldn't get shit done without him

hell they were popping up in 06, 07, 08 etc..

but now the tables get turned and everybody wants to throw a fit

pathetic really.. if you're gonna spend years trying to build the narrative of "Kobe can't do shit without Shaq" " Shaq made Kobe" "Kobe will never win without Shaq" "Shaq/Wade> Kobe" etc then you should be prepared to eat shit when that opposite of that finally happens

:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[kennethgriffin]

I bet if Kobe never won without Shaq these types of threads would be popping up everyday about how Kobe couldn't get shit done without him

hell they were popping up in 06, 07, 08 etc..

but now the tables get turned and everybody wants to throw a fit

pathetic really.. if you're gonna spend years trying to build the narrative of "Kobe can't do shit without Shaq" " Shaq made Kobe" "Kobe will never win without Shaq" "Shaq/Wade> Kobe" etc then you should be prepared to eat shit when that opposite of that finally happens

:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:


kobe has a top 15 all time resume with shaq

and a top 10 all time resume without shaq



shaq has a top 10 all time resume with kobe

but barely a top 30 all time resume without kobe


its obvious kobe won the battle