5 Rings

[Lensanity]

1. Less than 16 PPG and less than 37% in Finals
2. Rigged WCF
3. Most rigged championship in sports history
4. Celtics were inevitable to win it all until KG got hurt, Lakers got to play the Orlando Cupcakes led by leading scorer Hedo Turkeyglue
5. Kendrick Perkins (when he was good) missed game 7 so the Celtics couldn't rebound to save their lives in a game full of bricks led by brickmaster AKA Mr. 6/24. Joey Crawford carried LA in the 4th quarter.

What a career :applause: :bowdown:

[ShawkFactory]

Oh wow. I'll give you the 2002 WCF but otherwise...stick to smoking weed

[branslowski]

"2/6"
:lebroncry:

[TheMarkMadsen]

bran fans stay salty as fucc

:oldlol: :oldlol:

[Young X]

You can do this with any great player to try and discredit them.

Duncan:

1. Faced 27-23 Knicks without Ewing in '99
2. Dallas was inevitable to win it all in '03 before Dirk got hurt
3. Went 10-27 in game 7 of the '05 finals and got "carried" by his teammates
4. Rigged 2007 WCSF
5. Ibaka missed 1st 2 games against the Spurs in '14

:confusedshrug:

[Bandito]

Op is proof that pot is bad for you.

[ShawkFactory]

You can do this with any great player to try and discredit them.

Duncan:

1. Faced 27-23 Knicks without Ewing in '99
2. Dallas was inevitable to win it all in '03 before Dirk got hurt
3. Went 10-27 in game 7 of the '05 finals and got "carried" by his teammates
4. Rigged 2007 WCSF
5. Ibaka missed 1st 2 games against OKC in '14

:confusedshrug:
Literally anyone

[Bandito]

You can do this with any great player to try and discredit them.

Duncan:

1. Faced 27-23 Knicks without Ewing in '99
2. Dallas was inevitable to win it all in '03 before Dirk got hurt
3. Went 10-27 in game 7 of the '05 finals and got "carried" by his teammates
4. Rigged 2007 WCSF
5. Ibaka missed 1st 2 games against OKC in '14

:confusedshrug:
Didnt they win in 14?

[plowking]

Who cares?

He is a great player regardless. Like many Lakers though he is the beneficiary of great circumstance and is overrated in general. Same thing for Kareem and Magic, etc. If they never play for the Lakers, they aren't as highly regarded or talked about, hence not as high on the all time lists.

I remember people here talking about Kobe being top 10 all time around 2007... Wouldn't have been the case if he wasn't a Laker. 3 sidekick titles, no MVP's and a bunch of great numbers is what "the larger basketball fanbase" considered enough to be top 10. Basketball media and fans are most prevalent in NY and LA, so as soon as someone is close to greatness they leapfrog them up a bunch of spots.
I mean look at Wade now. 3 titles in which he played a bigger part than Kobe did in his 3 prior to winning the double after, a finals MVP, and a bunch of great numbers. Yet no one is putting him top 10 or close, are they? Nope, but they would if he had been a lifelong Laker.

[Lensanity]

You can do this with any great player to try and discredit them.

Duncan:

1. Faced 27-23 Knicks without Ewing in '99
2. Dallas was inevitable to win it all in '03 before Dirk got hurt
3. Went 10-27 in game 7 of the '05 finals and got "carried" by his teammates
4. Rigged 2007 WCSF
5. Ibaka missed 1st 2 games against OKC in '14

:confusedshrug:
1. Agreed
2. Maybe
3. I'll give it to him. Not like he shot 6/24 or anything.
4. The 2007 Spurs championship was 100% rigged. Even Tim Donahue said this. The leader of officials of the Suns series (can't remember his name) basically made the refs rig it for SAS.
5.Spurs still would have beaten OKC.

[branslowski]

bran fans stay salty as fucc

:oldlol: :oldlol:

I also like how "Orlando is cupcakes" when Kobe beats them, but when LeBron played against them, they wanna talk about what he did vs that GREAT defensive team led by the DPOY type Dwight Howard.:oldlol:

[Lensanity]

Who cares?

He is a great player regardless. Like many Lakers though he is the beneficiary of great circumstance and is overrated in general. Same thing for Kareem and Magic, etc. If they never play for the Lakers, they aren't as highly regarded or talked about, hence not as high on the all time lists.

I remember people here talking about Kobe being top 10 all time around 2007... Wouldn't have been the case if he wasn't a Laker. 3 sidekick titles, no MVP's and a bunch of great numbers is what "the larger basketball fanbase" considered enough to be top 10. Basketball media and fans are most prevalent in NY and LA, so as soon as someone is close to greatness they leapfrog them up a bunch of spots.
I mean look at Wade now. 3 titles in which he played a bigger part than Kobe did in his 3 prior to winning the double after, a finals MVP, and a bunch of great numbers. Yet no one is putting him top 10 or close, are they? Nope, but they would if he had been a lifelong Laker.

:applause:

Fantastic post.

/thread

[JellyBean]

1. Less than 16 PPG and less than 37% in Finals
2. Rigged WCF
3. Most rigged championship in sports history
4. Celtics were inevitable to win it all until KG got hurt, Lakers got to play the Orlando Cupcakes led by leading scorer Hedo Turkeyglue
5. Kendrick Perkins (when he was good) missed game 7 so the Celtics couldn't rebound to save their lives in a game full of bricks led by brickmaster AKA Mr. 6/24. Joey Crawford carried LA in the 4th quarter.

What a career :applause: :bowdown:


:facepalm

[TheMarkMadsen]

Who cares?

apparently you :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



He is a great player regardless. Like many Lakers though he is the beneficiary of great circumstance and is overrated in general. Same thing for Kareem and Magic, etc. If they never play for the Lakers, they aren't as highly regarded or talked about, hence not as high on the all time lists.

I remember people here talking about Kobe being top 10 all time around 2007... Wouldn't have been the case if he wasn't a Laker. 3 sidekick titles, no MVP's and a bunch of great numbers is what "the larger basketball fanbase" considered enough to be top 10. Basketball media and fans are most prevalent in NY and LA, so as soon as someone is close to greatness they leapfrog them up a bunch of spots.
I mean look at Wade now. 3 titles in which he played a bigger part than Kobe did in his 3 prior to winning the double after, a finals MVP, and a bunch of great numbers. Yet no one is putting him top 10 or close, are they? Nope, but they would if he had been a lifelong Laker.

WTF is this shit, 01 Kobe & 02 Kobe's championship runs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wade in 12 and 13

[catch24]

Who cares?

He is a great player regardless. Like many Lakers though he is the beneficiary of great circumstance and is overrated in general. Same thing for Kareem and Magic, etc. If they never play for the Lakers, they aren't as highly regarded or talked about, hence not as high on the all time lists.

I remember people here talking about Kobe being top 10 all time around 2007... Wouldn't have been the case if he wasn't a Laker. 3 sidekick titles, no MVP's and a bunch of great numbers is what "the larger basketball fanbase" considered enough to be top 10. Basketball media and fans are most prevalent in NY and LA, so as soon as someone is close to greatness they leapfrog them up a bunch of spots.
I mean look at Wade now. 3 titles in which he played a bigger part than Kobe did in his 3 prior to winning the double after, a finals MVP, and a bunch of great numbers. Yet no one is putting him top 10 or close, are they? Nope, but they would if he had been a lifelong Laker.

Talk about being intellectually dishonest...

The bold is completely laughable. Wade in 2012 and 2013 didn't play a "bigger role" to the Heat winning championships than Kobe did for his team in 2001 and 2002.

Kobe was a top 3 player in 2001. Wade? Maybe top 5 in 2012, but in 2013 not even in the top 10.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I also like how "Orlando is cupcakes" when Kobe beats them, but when LeBron played against them, they wanna talk about what he did vs that GREAT defensive team led by the DPOY type Dwight Howard.:oldlol:

they are mindless idiots :lol :lol

[Lensanity]

they are mindless idiots :lol :lol
Nobody says that. Lebron went up against a cupcake Magic team that was not legit contenders but the problem was he did it with Mo Williams and Mike Brown instead of an actual supporting cast.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Talk about being intellectually dishonest...

The bold is completely laughable. Wade in 2012 and 2013 didn't play a "bigger role" to the Heat winning championships than Kobe did for his team in 2001 and 2002.

Kobe was a top 3 player in 2001. Wade? Maybe top 5 in 2012, but in 2013 not even in the top 10.

Kobe put up better numbers during his "side kick" titles than Wade did at his absolute best..

06 Wade: 28/6/6 on 49.7%

01 Kobe: 29/7/6 on 46.9%

[TheMarkMadsen]

Nobody says that. Lebron went up against a cupcake Magic team that was not legit contenders but the problem was he did it with Mo Williams and Mike Brown instead of an actual supporting cast.

Wow Lebron couldn't get it done against a cup cake team with an all star point guard by his side :eek: :eek:

[catch24]

Kobe put up better numbers during his "side kick" titles than Wade did at his absolute best..

06 Wade: 28/6/6 on 49.7%

01 Kobe: 29/7/6 on 46.9%

Yup

Unfortunately trolling idiots and haters run rampant on this forum.

[TheMarkMadsen]

01 Kobe: 29/7/6

12 Wade: 23/5/4


02 Kobe: 27/5/6

13 Wade: 16/5/5


eat shit plowking :lol :lol

[JT123]

01 Kobe: 29/7/6

12 Wade: 23/5/4


02 Kobe: 27/5/6

13 Wade: 16/5/5


eat shit plowking :lol :lol
So basically Bron carried Wade to a ring. :applause:
Glad you are finally able to admit it. :cheers:

[20Four]

1. Less than 16 PPG and less than 37% in Finals
2. Rigged WCF
3. Most rigged championship in sports history
4. Celtics were inevitable to win it all until KG got hurt, Lakers got to play the Orlando Cupcakes led by leading scorer Hedo Turkeyglue
5. Kendrick Perkins (when he was good) missed game 7 so the Celtics couldn't rebound to save their lives in a game full of bricks led by brickmaster AKA Mr. 6/24. Joey Crawford carried LA in the 4th quarter.

What a career :applause: :bowdown:


http://i.imgur.com/Kq0bvUb.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/txFEgeC.jpg

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I mean look at Wade now. 3 titles in which he played a bigger part than Kobe did in his 3 prior to winning the double after, a finals MVP, and a bunch of great numbers. Yet no one is putting him top 10 or close, are they? Nope, but they would if he had been a lifelong Laker.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

dat CHeat bias ...

[JT123]

OP is spot on by the way. Kobe is probably the luckiest athlete in the history of sports. The only adversity he's had to face in his career has been of his own doing. Not being able to compete for a 3 year stretch only happened because he chose to chase Shaq out of town. And now his current situation is only happening because he tries to recruit top 10 players by telling them they will be his Pau. :oldlol: :lol :facepalm

[SpecialQue]

I find this massive lashing out against Kobe fvcking hilarious. Now that these retards are getting over the humiliation of Lebron losing yet again in the finals, they can't stop creating threads trying to discredit or bash Kobe. The insecurity on display is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

[Mr. Jabbar]

i know its off season but the site could still benefit from banning op

[knicksman]

maybe if bran is as good as kobe in the clutch, he wouldve the same rings. :confusedshrug:

But bran stans are just statnerds. Doesnt know anything about eye tests.

[JT123]

i know its off season but the site could still benefit from banning op
I see someone is catching feelings. :oldlol:

[KG215]

This thread is just as stupid as kennethgriffin's "This is why Kobe is better than _______" threads, but the OP is essentially using the exact same level of dumbass logic as griff uses in his threads.

[rmt]

You can do this with any great player to try and discredit them.

Duncan:

1. Faced 27-23 Knicks without Ewing in '99
2. Dallas was inevitable to win it all in '03 before Dirk got hurt
3. Went 10-27 in game 7 of the '05 finals and got "carried" by his teammates
4. Rigged 2007 WCSF
5. Ibaka missed 1st 2 games against the Spurs in '14

:confusedshrug:

"His complete game is so sound, so fundamnetal, so unnoticed at times, because if he didn't score, people think, 'Well, he didn't do anything,'" Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "But he was incredible and he was the force that got it done for us."

"You follow your leader," Spurs guard Tony Parker said. "Timmy is the leader of the team, and he just carried us tonight."

"He put his team on his shoulders and carried them to a championship," Pistons center Ben Wallace said. "That's what the great players do."

"A lot of the shots they made, open shots, came as a result of us having a hard time guarding him," Brown said. "That's why he's such a great player."

[Lensanity]

i know its off season but the site could still benefit from banning op

Is your butt ok?

[ShawkFactory]

Wow Lebron couldn't get it done against a cup cake team with an all star point guard by his side :eek: :eek:
Allstar point guard by his side?? Psshhh, check what mo did against Orlando

Edit: I know you're trolling back the troll. Carry on.

[Young X]

"His complete game is so sound, so fundamnetal, so unnoticed at times, because if he didn't score, people think, 'Well, he didn't do anything,'" Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "But he was incredible and he was the force that got it done for us."

"You follow your leader," Spurs guard Tony Parker said. "Timmy is the leader of the team, and he just carried us tonight."

"He put his team on his shoulders and carried them to a championship," Pistons center Ben Wallace said. "That's what the great players do."

"A lot of the shots they made, open shots, came as a result of us having a hard time guarding him," Brown said. "That's why he's such a great player."That's why I put quotation marks around the word carried.

My post was supposed to sound stupid.

Every great player benefits from fortunate situations, that's a part of being a champion. Kobe's no different. Trying to discredit his rings is stupid as you can do the same thing for everybody else.

[HylianNightmare]

Who cares?

This

[Sportal]

Who cares?

He is a great player regardless. Like many Lakers though he is the beneficiary of great circumstance and is overrated in general. Same thing for Kareem and Magic, etc. If they never play for the Lakers, they aren't as highly regarded or talked about, hence not as high on the all time lists.

I remember people here talking about Kobe being top 10 all time around 2007... Wouldn't have been the case if he wasn't a Laker. 3 sidekick titles, no MVP's and a bunch of great numbers is what "the larger basketball fanbase" considered enough to be top 10. Basketball media and fans are most prevalent in NY and LA, so as soon as someone is close to greatness they leapfrog them up a bunch of spots.
I mean look at Wade now. 3 titles in which he played a bigger part than Kobe did in his 3 prior to winning the double after, a finals MVP, and a bunch of great numbers. Yet no one is putting him top 10 or close, are they? Nope, but they would if he had been a lifelong Laker.

Agree with you until the Wade parts. Everything else was spot on.

As a person who dislikes the majority of the irrational Laker fans, their franchise has got it done year after, up until the last couple. Hey, if CP3 didn't get vetoed who knows, right..? Their coach (yes, singular) and their FO had the Lakers as the top most desired destination for a NBA player, for, at least a decade. There has not been a comparable one in that period of time. Cleveland got to the 2007 finals and STILL couldn't recruit like the Lakers.

Anyway, being the top destination in the league, with one of the most accomplished histories in the sport, combined with obnoxious fans, could very well lead to practically any good member in that Lakers team to be "overrated".

[rmt]

That's why I put quotation marks around the word carried.

My post was supposed to sound stupid.

Every great player benefits from fortunate situations, that's a part of being a champion. Kobe's no different. Trying to discredit his rings is stupid as you can do the same thing for everybody else.

Sorry.

I think it's hard to do that to MJ - there's no doubt he was the man.

[Bandito]

I see someone is catching feelings. :oldlol:
With how many emoticons you using in each post I would say is you. Ive noticed when you are mad you tend to post a lot of emoticons.

[AnaheimLakers24]

Op is proof that pot is bad for you.
Im quitting cause of this retard

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Who cares?

He is a great player regardless. Like many Lakers though he is the beneficiary of great circumstance and is overrated in general. Same thing for Kareem and Magic, etc. If they never play for the Lakers, they aren't as highly regarded or talked about, hence not as high on the all time lists.

I remember people here talking about Kobe being top 10 all time around 2007... Wouldn't have been the case if he wasn't a Laker. 3 sidekick titles, no MVP's and a bunch of great numbers is what "the larger basketball fanbase" considered enough to be top 10. Basketball media and fans are most prevalent in NY and LA, so as soon as someone is close to greatness they leapfrog them up a bunch of spots.
I mean look at Wade now. 3 titles in which he played a bigger part than Kobe did in his 3 prior to winning the double after, a finals MVP, and a bunch of great numbers. Yet no one is putting him top 10 or close, are they? Nope, but they would if he had been a lifelong Laker.
Great post!

Any posters whinging about Kobe's 01 & 02 impact >>> Wade's 12 & 13, maybe so, but why leave out Wade's best and Kobe's worst finals out of the equation?
That hardly seems like a fair comparison.

[plowking]

01 Kobe: 29/7/6

12 Wade: 23/5/4


02 Kobe: 27/5/6

13 Wade: 16/5/5


eat shit plowking :lol :lol

You are the single biggest moron on here. Absolutely running away with that title. You chop and screw and change your arguments to suit you. In another thread it was using Wade's particular numbers to suit you to make it look like Bron didn't carry much. Now it is the opposite when Bron isn't in the question. :oldlol:

F*ck off cupcake.

The fact that Wade won a finals MVP in 3 of his titles, while being 2nd best in the other two means that yes, he did in fact have more to do with his 3 titles than Kobe did his.

Over those 3 finals, Wade averaged 26/6/5...
Over Kobe's 3 finals, Kobe averaged 23/6/5...

So, yes, Wade did have the better contribution in winning. Then we can include their losses too, and Wade pushes further ahead with a great showing against Dallas, and Kobe with his abysmal one against Detroit.


So, once again, playing in LA clearly helps rep, and your spot on the all time list. You've been made to look stupid once again. Cheers.

[plowking]

Talk about being intellectually dishonest...

The bold is completely laughable. Wade in 2012 and 2013 didn't play a "bigger role" to the Heat winning championships than Kobe did for his team in 2001 and 2002.

Kobe was a top 3 player in 2001. Wade? Maybe top 5 in 2012, but in 2013 not even in the top 10.

Wade was just as good in the finals in 2012 as Kobe was against the Sixers.

23/6/5 in 40 minutes a game vs 25/8/5 in 47 minutes a game.

Wade could have easily stayed in game 5, and played more minutes, padded his stats while they were up 28 points, but he sat.

[TheMarkMadsen]

You are the single biggest moron on here. Absolutely running away with that title. You chop and screw and change your arguments to suit you. In another thread it was using Wade's particular numbers to suit you to make it look like Bron didn't carry much. Now it is the opposite when Bron isn't in the question. :oldlol:

F*ck off cupcake.

The fact that Wade won a finals MVP in 3 of his titles, while being 2nd best in the other two means that yes, he did in fact have more to do with his 3 titles than Kobe did his.

Over those 3 finals, Wade averaged 26/6/5...
Over Kobe's 3 finals, Kobe averaged 23/6/5...

So, yes, Wade did have the better contribution in winning. Then we can include their losses too, and Wade pushes further ahead with a great showing against Dallas, and Kobe with his abysmal one against Detroit.


So, once again, playing in LA clearly helps rep, and your spot on the all time list. You've been made to look stupid once again. Cheers.


and then you boil it down to a single series instead of looking at the entire playoff run..

literally nobody in this thread agrees with you, that statement is so ridiculous I won't even bother with you..

01 & 02 Kobe easily over 12 & 13 Wade

fuccing moron :oldlol: :oldlol:

[TheMarkMadsen]

this fuccing moron is seriously trying to argue that wade putting up 23/5/4 is contributing more to his team than Kobe putting up 29/7/6

and then when you look at the next year it gets even worse

Wade in 13 playoffs: 16/4/4

Kobe in 02 playoffs: 27/6/5

:roll: :roll:

[Droid101]

lol "when he was good." Wallace played equal defense and wayyy better offense that post season. Get real.

[JT123]

With how many emoticons you using in each post I would say is you. Ive noticed when you are mad you tend to post a lot of emoticons.
:oldlol: What you talking bout man? I don't take this place seriously enough to get mad. :no:

[Droid101]

plowking holding all the L's here as usual. Jesus.

Your trolling is really bad. Re-read dubeta/lebronxrings/JT threads for some help.

You have to completely ignore facts, not try to twist them into your favor.

[catch24]

Wade was just as good in the finals in 2012 as Kobe was against the Sixers.

23/6/5 in 40 minutes a game vs 25/8/5 in 47 minutes a game.

Wade could have easily stayed in game 5, and played more minutes, padded his stats while they were up 28 points, but he sat.

Dude... One series? Am I being trolled here? :confusedshrug:

So now we can say Cornbread Maxwell > Bird because he was arguably better in the '82 finals? Get real.

[catch24]

plowking holding all the L's here as usual. Jesus.

Your trolling is really bad. Re-read dubeta/lebronxrings/JT threads for some help.

You have to completely ignore facts, not try to twist them into your favor.

So plowking has turned into a troll? Makes sense.

Dude actually used to make really good posts on here. I even co-signed some of his pro Wade stuff, but this is just comedy. Like.. shit that doesn't even make sense. :oldlol:

[Cold soul]

So plowking has turned into a troll? Makes sense.

Dude actually used to make really good posts on here. I even co-signed some of his pro Wade stuff, but this is just nonsense. Like.. shit that doesn't even make sense.

Lol it took you this long to see he was a troll he always was.

[catch24]

Lol it took you this long you see he was a troll he always was.

Believe it or not, he actually used to be one of the best posters here. How the mighty have fallen...

[Cold soul]

Believe it or not, he actually used to be one of the best posters here. How the mighty have fallen...

Yeah when comes to subject of Kobe ignore him.

[plowking]

Dude... One series? Am I being trolled here? :confusedshrug:

So now we can say Cornbread Maxwell > Bird because he was arguably better in the '82 finals? Get real.

I mentioned finals, not playoffs in my original post.

Here is a question. If Kobe's career finished in 2004 after his 3 titles wins, and 1 loss in the finals, and Wade's in 2013 after his 3 finals win and 1 loss, who goes down as the better player?

Neither has a MVP, one has a FMVP, and another great finals, while Kobe doesn't. All this talk about showing up on the biggest stage and winning when it comes to Bron, yet when it is about Kobe and his stats falter, we bring up that he won anyway, and that he was great in the playoffs overall.

F*ck off with the "plowking is a troll" shit. Typical Droid pansy excuse for not being able to handle anyone with a different opinion. Can't argue any of the point so he sits on a high horse and pretends like he actually contributes anything to conversations on here.

Point is, going by all criteria set, Wade should be ranked higher given the question I asked above. Yet, because Kobe played in LA, and Wade elsewhere, he doesn't get the same props. That is my entire point. You guys get all worked up over slight discrepancies in opinion.
Point is, Wade gets top 10 talks after 2013 if he played in LA his whole career. Yet you ask people where he stands now, and they'll tell you top 25. Yet somehow we give Kobe top 10 talks after 2004 simply because he plays for the Lakers, yet his career was probably less decorated and memorable.

Even now we have people rank Magic above Bird... Never the case when they played. My point once again that playing in LA will have you ranked higher.
Notice how Shaq isn't particularly liked in LA, and despite all his dominance and longevity, and 4 rings to add, people have the nerve to rank him 8th and 9th at times? :oldlol:

[GIF REACTION]

FLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEX

flex on them plow

FLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEX

[plowking]

Dude... One series? Am I being trolled here? :confusedshrug:

So now we can say Cornbread Maxwell > Bird because he was arguably better in the '82 finals? Get real.

I'm talking Kobe prior to his other 2 titles. What don't you get?

Wade with 3 titles and a FMVP versus Kobe without the two titles with Gasol is a good debate. My point was, even prior to those 2 titles, Kobe was getting top 10 talks on here, yet Wade now doesn't.

LA is a big reason because of it. Playing in LA helps how people perceive you, and how the media perceives you.

[kennethgriffin]

1. Less than 16 PPG and less than 37% in Finals
2. Rigged WCF
3. Most rigged championship in sports history
4. Celtics were inevitable to win it all until KG got hurt, Lakers got to play the Orlando Cupcakes led by leading scorer Hedo Turkeyglue
5. Kendrick Perkins (when he was good) missed game 7 so the Celtics couldn't rebound to save their lives in a game full of bricks led by brickmaster AKA Mr. 6/24. Joey Crawford carried LA in the 4th quarter.

What a career :applause: :bowdown:


1. 19ppg if you dont count the game he left in the 1st quarter with 2 points. kobe saved the wcf game 7 vs the best team they faced all year. down 15 in the 4th quarter. kobe out scored, out rebounded, out assisted, out blocked shaquille oneal. there is no finals without kobe. then he saved the finals in game 4. if indiana wins that game they have all the momentum

2. the kings outshot the lakers in free throws for the series.

3. isnt this the same as #2?

4. injuries are part of the game. if everyones healthy every year the lakers win in 2003 ( kobe ) 2004 ( malone ) and 2008 ( bynum, ariza )

5. isnt this the same as #4. injuries are part of basketball. kobe and the lakers have had a ton too

6. kobe grabbed 15 rebounds, held pierce/allen to 8 for 29. assisted on the key 3 by artest. hit free throws and a big jumper. if the refs favored LA. theyre at home. thats what home court advantage brings you. which is also what boston had in 2008 when they won. home teams win more often than not for a reason. reffing is fan biased. it balances out cause everyone gets that perk if they earn it

7. OP = destroyed



/thread

[ArbitraryWater]

You can do this with any great player to try and discredit them.

Duncan:

1. Faced 27-23 Knicks without Ewing in '99
2. Dallas was inevitable to win it all in '03 before Dirk got hurt
3. Went 10-27 in game 7 of the '05 finals and got "carried" by his teammates
4. Rigged 2007 WCSF
5. Ibaka missed 1st 2 games against the Spurs in '14

:confusedshrug:

Ibaka missing 2 games in which they were blown the **** out like with him in G5 is not to be mentined, 2005 is also obviously legit, but the rest is pretty legit.. besides that for 1999 I would just mention that the comp around the league was weak. Especially 2007 though.


Who cares?

He is a great player regardless. Like many Lakers though he is the beneficiary of great circumstance and is overrated in general. Same thing for Kareem and Magic, etc. If they never play for the Lakers, they aren't as highly regarded or talked about, hence not as high on the all time lists.

I remember people here talking about Kobe being top 10 all time around 2007... Wouldn't have been the case if he wasn't a Laker. 3 sidekick titles, no MVP's and a bunch of great numbers is what "the larger basketball fanbase" considered enough to be top 10. Basketball media and fans are most prevalent in NY and LA, so as soon as someone is close to greatness they leapfrog them up a bunch of spots.
I mean look at Wade now. 3 titles in which he played a bigger part than Kobe did in his 3 prior to winning the double after, a finals MVP, and a bunch of great numbers. Yet no one is putting him top 10 or close, are they? Nope, but they would if he had been a lifelong Laker.

:applause: :applause:

[Marchesk]

I mean look at Wade now. 3 titles in which he played a bigger part than Kobe did in his 3 prior to winning the double after, a finals MVP, and a bunch of great numbers. Yet no one is putting him top 10 or close, are they? Nope, but they would if he had been a lifelong Laker.

Nope, because Wade's not ahead of West and Baylor as it is.

[ArbitraryWater]

Nope, because Wade's not ahead of West and Baylor as it is.

Baylor isn't on Wade's level, stop lumping Baylor/West together.

[plowking]

Nope, because Wade's not ahead of West and Baylor as it is.

How about Kobe in 2004?

[kennethgriffin]

Baylor isn't on Wade's level, stop lumping Baylor/West together.



baylor gets a pass on rings due to the 60s stacked celtics rigging the league for a decade

so does west


which is why both guys are firmly ranked in the top 15 all time


wades more around top 25 all time


baylors best season was like 40ppg, 20rpg, 5apg or some shit... thats impressive for a guy his size no matter what the era

[Marchesk]

How about Kobe in 2004?

Obviously not.

[tpols]

Here is a question. If Kobe's career finished in 2004 after his 3 titles wins, and 1 loss in the finals, and Wade's in 2013 after his 3 finals win and 1 loss, who goes down as the better player?


Point is, going by all criteria set, Wade should be ranked higher given the question I asked above. Yet, because Kobe played in LA, and Wade elsewhere, he doesn't get the same props. That is my entire point. :

They'd be about equal in the bold's case.. something like

06 Wade/01 Kobe
02 Kobe/12 Wade
00 Kobe/13 Wade

You can make cases either way.. 02 Kobe and 00 Kobe had better numbers than 12 and 13 Wade respectively but Wade stepped up in time of need in 13 and in 12 could've averaged more in different circumstances, but similar.



Problem is you cant just take away back to back FMVPs.. Kobe after the threepeat was ranked in the top 20s all time. He didn't crack top 10 til he won those two rings you're omitting from your comparison.

It's like comparing ewing and hakeem minus hakeems rings lol.. yea theyre similar outside taking away the most important part of one of their careers.



Wade is ranked just fine.. the fact that hes constantly mentioned top 20 all time by most is very generous considering Kobe barely got that type of ranking when he had a pre-06 resume that was as strong as wades whole career resume.

[catch24]

I mentioned finals, not playoffs in my original post.

Here is a question. If Kobe's career finished in 2004 after his 3 titles wins, and 1 loss in the finals, and Wade's in 2013 after his 3 finals win and 1 loss, who goes down as the better player?

Neither has a MVP, one has a FMVP, and another great finals, while Kobe doesn't. All this talk about showing up on the biggest stage and winning when it comes to Bron, yet when it is about Kobe and his stats falter, we bring up that he won anyway, and that he was great in the playoffs overall.

F*ck off with the "plowking is a troll" shit. Typical Droid pansy excuse for not being able to handle anyone with a different opinion. Can't argue any of the point so he sits on a high horse and pretends like he actually contributes anything to conversations on here.

Point is, going by all criteria set, Wade should be ranked higher given the question I asked above. Yet, because Kobe played in LA, and Wade elsewhere, he doesn't get the same props. That is my entire point. You guys get all worked up over slight discrepancies in opinion.
Point is, Wade gets top 10 talks after 2013 if he played in LA his whole career. Yet you ask people where he stands now, and they'll tell you top 25. Yet somehow we give Kobe top 10 talks after 2004 simply because he plays for the Lakers, yet his career was probably less decorated and memorable.

Even now we have people rank Magic above Bird... Never the case when they played. My point once again that playing in LA will have you ranked higher.
Notice how Shaq isn't particularly liked in LA, and despite all his dominance and longevity, and 4 rings to add, people have the nerve to rank him 8th and 9th at times? :oldlol:

What in the world are you talking about?

Kobe wasn't ranked anywhere close to the top 10 after his first 3 rings. The same way Wade isn't ranked anywhere close to the top 10 currently. Kobe needed the 2009 and 2010 championships just so he could be a consensus top 10 player.

Why the hell would we remove the latter 2 rings when he obtained them before Wade got 2 of his last 3 afterward...as LeBron's sidekick. Your logic is woeful dude.

[ImKobe]

1. Less than 16 PPG and less than 37% in Finals
2. Rigged WCF
3. Most rigged championship in sports history
4. Celtics were inevitable to win it all until KG got hurt, Lakers got to play the Orlando Cupcakes led by leading scorer Hedo Turkeyglue
5. Kendrick Perkins (when he was good) missed game 7 so the Celtics couldn't rebound to save their lives in a game full of bricks led by brickmaster AKA Mr. 6/24. Joey Crawford carried LA in the 4th quarter.

1. Injured like 5 minutes into a Finals game, had a 28 pt game and closed a Finals game on the road with Shaq out and on an injured ankle...closed out Game 6 of the Finals, they don't even make the Finals without him having a game-saving block on Sabonis and him leading his team in 4 categories (pts, rebs, ast, blks) in a Game 7 of the WCF with Shaq putting up 18 pts 9 reb

2. Rigged? Kings had so many chances to win that series and they blew em all, from leaving Horry wide open at the key to hit the game-winning 3 to airballing a wide open corner 3 in a Game 7 at home to win the game before OT, plus all the FTs they missed...

3. see #2, and Brady tuck rule was far worse....

4. inevitable? Magic sucked? Howard was putting up 40 pt games and dominating Lebron James and his 60 win team, Finals was closer than the final series tally as it had two overtimes, could have gone 7 easily

5. Perkins was not even Boston's top 5 player on that roster....and Lakers lost in 08 with Bynum and Ariza injured, might as well say Lakers 08 win with a healthy Bynum and Ariza since their series went 6 games


Basically, your post is full of shit.

[Hey Yo]

baylor gets a pass on rings due to the 60s stacked celtics rigging the league for a decade

so does west


which is why both guys are firmly ranked in the top 15 all time


wades more around top 25 all time


baylors best season was like 40ppg, 20rpg, 5apg or some shit... thats impressive for a guy his size no matter what the era
Jerry "the ultimate choker" West in the top 15?

you got some strange standards dude and flip flop like no other on here.

[plowking]

What in the world are you talking about?

Kobe wasn't ranked anywhere close to the top 10 after his first 3 rings. The same way Wade isn't ranked anywhere close to the top 10 currently. Kobe needed the 2009 and 2010 championships just so he could be a consensus top 10 player.

Why the hell would we remove the latter 2 rings when he obtained them before Wade got 2 of his last 3 afterward...as LeBron's sidekick. Your logic is woeful dude.

I distinctly remember a thread on here around 2006 ranking Kobe 12th or 13th...

You don't even understand the damn argument and you're over here arguing... FFS. My point is so clearly defined, yet you don't seem to get it.
My point is, given two players, with the similar careers, and near identical achievements, they are ranked differently if one plays for the Lakers (being the Laker is ranked higher). Do you get it?
I'm removing Kobe's two finals MVP's strictly for comparisons purposes as to where they were ranked with similar achievements. Many on here actually said Kobe was 10-12 even with 3 rings. Yet Wade gets top 25-30 talk.
Do you get the point now? That Kobe, with similar stats, achievements, etc, if it all happened at the same time, would get ranked above another player with similar accolades simply due to being a Laker.

I'm simply using Kobe as an example, since it lines up nicely with another SG comparison. You could do the same with Bird and Wade.

Jesus... if you just read through the points, you'd get what you're even arguing, or if you'd even be arguing in the first place.

I get that Kobe has 5 rings. Calm down sport.

[clipps]

arguing with Kobe stans is just like arguing with "gluten intolerant" people.

[raprap]

plowking going in. :applause:

Kobe's great tho. I personally have him in my top 10 as the greatest ever.

[catch24]

I distinctly remember a thread on here around 2006 ranking Kobe 12th or 13th...

You don't even understand the damn argument and you're over here arguing... FFS. My point is so clearly defined, yet you don't seem to get it.
My point is, given two players, with the similar careers, and near identical achievements, they are ranked differently if one plays for the Lakers (being the Laker is ranked higher). Do you get it?
I'm removing Kobe's two finals MVP's strictly for comparisons purposes as to where they were ranked with similar achievements. Many on here actually said Kobe was 10-12 even with 3 rings. Yet Wade gets top 25-30 talk.
Do you get the point now? That Kobe, with similar stats, achievements, etc, if it all happened at the same time, would get ranked above another player with similar accolades simply due to being a Laker.

I'm simply using Kobe as an example, since it lines up nicely with another SG comparison. You could do the same with Bird and Wade.

Jesus... if you just read through the points, you'd get what you're even arguing, or if you'd even be arguing in the first place.

I get that Kobe has 5 rings. Calm down sport.

You actually think I don't get your "point"? :oldlol: If that's the case, most don't, because you were called out by more than a few posters here.

Your argument is pretty clear dude, its just bad...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49628
http://www.slamonline.com/tag/top-50-2009/

^According to ISH's poll back when there were limited trolls, Kobe was ranked ~24, which is near where Wade's at currently. The SLAM magazine ranking is from 2009, after his 4th title, and dude was still only at 12. Again, it took 2 FMVP, an MVP, and 2 chips for him be ranked ~10.

Nobody that was taken seriously had 3-peat Kobe anywhere NEAR the top 10. You're delusional. :oldlol:

[West-Side]

Oh wow. I'll give you the 2002 WCF but otherwise...stick to smoking weed


Sacramento Kings - 205 free throw attempts
Los Angeles Lakers - 185 free throw attempts

Game 6
LA - 40
Sac - 25

If you don't include the "hack-a-shaq"; than the discrepancy in free throws is identical (10) as game 5. I think people conveniently forget how many questionable calls went against LA in that game. :rolleyes:

Game 5
LA - 23
Sac - 33


What was the excuse in game 7? The officiating was pretty good and LA still managed to beat Sacramento in OT on their own court. The FT discrepancy was 33 to 30 in favor of LA.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You actually think I don't get your "point"? :oldlol: If that's the case, most don't, because you were called out by more than a few posters here.

Your argument is pretty clear dude, its just bad...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49628
http://www.slamonline.com/tag/top-50-2009/

^According to ISH's poll back when there were limited trolls, Kobe was ranked ~24, which is near where Wade's at currently. The SLAM magazine ranking is from 2009, after his 4th title, and dude was still only at 12. Again, it took 2 FMVP, an MVP, and 2 chips for him be ranked ~10.

Nobody that was taken seriously had 3-peat Kobe anywhere NEAR the top 10. You're delusional. :oldlol:

Damn you bodied that Aussie. Hah!

That ISH thread is interesting. Pretty absurd that Kobe was a consensus Top 23-25 player back in 2007, and a consensus Top 10 player just 4 years later. People fool themselves into thinking winning doesn't mean a lot. It's crucial.

[West-Side]

Who cares?

He is a great player regardless. Like many Lakers though he is the beneficiary of great circumstance and is overrated in general. Same thing for Kareem and Magic, etc. If they never play for the Lakers, they aren't as highly regarded or talked about, hence not as high on the all time lists.

I remember people here talking about Kobe being top 10 all time around 2007... Wouldn't have been the case if he wasn't a Laker. 3 sidekick titles, no MVP's and a bunch of great numbers is what "the larger basketball fanbase" considered enough to be top 10. Basketball media and fans are most prevalent in NY and LA, so as soon as someone is close to greatness they leapfrog them up a bunch of spots.
I mean look at Wade now. 3 titles in which he played a bigger part than Kobe did in his 3 prior to winning the double after, a finals MVP, and a bunch of great numbers. Yet no one is putting him top 10 or close, are they? Nope, but they would if he had been a lifelong Laker.


http://media.giphy.com/media/IP3DALV88Ll3G/giphy.gif