Wilt 1967 Finals Free Throw Percentage - 30% (22/72)

[warriorfan]

How inefficient was Wilt in 1967 Finals? FT percentage of 30%? He had a sub .500 TS%....that is awful. Would Wilt even be able to stay on the floor in today's game when shooting 30% FT? Hack-a-Wilt would not let him stay on the floor...

[ShawkFactory]

Shaq stayed on the floor.

[LAZERUSS]

How inefficient was Wilt in 1967 Finals? FT percentage of 30%? He had a sub .500 TS%....that is awful. Would Wilt even be able to stay on the floor in today's game when shooting 30% FT? Hack-a-Wilt would not let him stay on the floor...

Not only that, but Wilt LED his team to a dominating title, and would have won a unanimous FMVP had the award existed. Of course, outshooting your opposing HOF center from the floor by a staggering .560 to .343 margin is all that needs to be said.

And, of course, Shaq won two rings while shooting .387 and .292 from the line.

[LAZERUSS]

Shaq stayed on the floor.

Chamberlain was being hacked all game long in every game he played in, as well...and he too, stayed on the floor.

[warriorfan]

Not only that, but Wilt LED his team to a dominating title, and would have won a unanimous FMVP had the award existed. Of course, outshooting your opposing HOF center from the floor by a staggering .560 to .343 margin is all that needs to be said.

And, of course, Shaq won two rings while shooting .387 and .292 from the line.

TS% is a more accurate representation of efficiency and Wilt scored a TS% of sub .500 in the 67 Finals, which is Allen Iverson status. :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

Incidently, Wilt's TS%'s, which have been already proven to be even higher than the actual rates...were almost always...WAY ABOVE the post-season league TS%'s. And even with that horrible FT%, Wilt still easily outshot the post-season league TS%, by a .478 to .468 margin.

Oh, and Wilt's TS% for that entire post-season... .546...or nearly an eight full percentage points above the post-season league TS%.

[Jameerthefear]

Wilt EXPOSED

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt EXPOSED

Yep...just like Shaq.

[jlip]

Shaq and Ben Wallace had similar playoff series when it came to ft% during their careers. Shaq actually shot 29.2% from the ft line in the '06 Finals.

[Jameerthefear]

wilt's is much worse since he shot many more freethrows doe

[LAZERUSS]

Shaq and Ben Wallace had similar playoff series when it came to ft% during their careers. Shaq actually shot 29.2% from the ft in the '06 Finals.

Agreed...and BTW, I pointed that out earlier as well. And he shot .387 from the line in his greatest Finals.

It's interesting that Russell shot .356 from the line, AND .356 from the floor in one of his Finals.

And overall, Russell had entire post-seasons in his title runs, of .585, .552, .526, .523, .508, and .506 from the line. AND, he had post-seasons of .423, .409, .409, .365, and even .356 in his title runs.

[LAZERUSS]

wilt's is much worse since he shot many more freethrows doe

Nope...in his 2000 Finals, Shaq went 36-93 from the line.

[CavaliersFTW]

Two other more recent centers dipped into the 20's.

2006 NBA Finals: Shaquille O'Neal:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2006_finals.html
46.9 FT% Reg season
37.4 FT% Playoffs
29.2 FT% Finals

2004 NBA Finals: Ben Wallace:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2004_finals.html
49.0 FT% Reg season
42.7 FT% Playoffs
29.4 FT% Finals

Both stayed on the floor. Even though neither could produce a Quadruple-Double in the Finals like Wilt:
https://twitter.com/WiltCArchive/status/595996779193176066
10 points 38 rebounds 10 assists 10 blocks

[warriorfan]

Wilt's 1967 Finals were very low scoring and very inefficient...

[Marchesk]

Did Wilt's team win?

[Jameerthefear]

Wilt's 1967 Finals were very low scoring and very inefficient...
he has games where his team lost by 1 point and he shot like 2/11 from the line. ****ing notorious choker

[warriorfan]

he has games where his team lost by 1 point and he shot like 2/11 from the line. ****ing notorious choker

Wow, that is pretty much the definition of a choke.

[CavaliersFTW]

Did Wilt's team win?
Yes, not only that but Wilt had the NBA's only known quadruple double in NBA Finals history that series.

Stop derrailling the thread with praise though, OP wants people to hate Wilt you're ruining his plan.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt's 1967 Finals were very low scoring and very inefficient...

And yet, he DOMINATED that Finals, and would surely have won a UNANIMOUS FMVP.

BTW, in the clinching game six win, he outscored HOFer Nate Thurmond, 24-12, while outshooting him from the field by an 8-13 to 4-13 margin (and he outscored Nate from the line, 8-16 to 4-8, as well.)

His TS% in that game six... .571 (in a post-season NBA that shot a TS% of .468) to Nate's .353 TS%. A TYPICAL Chamberlain dominating performance.

[LAZERUSS]

Yes, not only that but Wilt had the NBA's only known quadruple double in NBA Finals history that series.

Stop derrailling the thread with praise though, OP wants people to hate Wilt you're ruining his plan.


Which was his SECOND known quad-double of that post-season (the other being a 24-32-13-12 game against Russell in the ECF's.) BTW, he most assuredly had a quad-double in game three of the first round, when he posted a 16-30-19 game, with an "estimated" 20 blocked shots.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wilt shot 56% from the field against Nate Thurmond in those NBA Finals.

What's the highest Jabbar ever shot against Nate Thurmond in a playoff series, did he ever even crack 50%?

[CavaliersFTW]

Which was his SECOND known quad-double of that post-season (the other being a 24-32-13-12 game against Russell in the ECF's.) BTW, he most assuredly had a quad-double in game three of the first round, when he posted a 16-30-19 game, with an "estimated" 20 blocked shots.
Who estimated those 20 blocks? If it is the guy who filled in the excel stat sheets, and not some first-hand source such as a coach, or Harvey Pollack, or someone of that nature that estimate could be entirely baseless. Just an FYI.

[CavaliersFTW]

Laz, OP wanted people to think Wilt's 1967 Finals was "bad" and he obviously went through the trouble to look up free throw percentage to make this conclusion. Are we really going to sit here and bully him with facts and information that ruins this thread? I feel bad. It's like picking on a kid with special needs.

[warriorfan]

Yes, not only that but Wilt had the NBA's only known quadruple double in NBA Finals history that series.

Stop derrailling the thread with praise though, OP wants people to hate Wilt you're ruining his plan.

:oldlol:

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1917&dat=19570417&id=yHIhAAAAIBAJ&sjid=b4gFAAAAIBAJ&pg=505,3273879&hl=en

Wilt statpadded in a blow out game 2 where Rick Barry was playing on an ankle injury and Nate Thurmond (Wilt's cover) went out before half time with an injured hip and was hobbled for the rest of the game. The arctical even says "Hal Greer and Billy Cunningham bombing the hoops, rolling the crippled San Francisco Warriors 126-95 on Sunday".

Wilt doing what wilt does best, stat pad in blow out meaningless games and then letting the boxscore loving stans eat it up.

[LAZERUSS]

he has games where his team lost by 1 point and he shot like 2/11 from the line. ****ing notorious choker

Yeah, Wilt was the only GOAT candidate with a poor playoff game. You won't find MJ shooting 9-30 from the field in a series clinching defeat (or 5-19 in a series clinching win, either.)

Same with Bird. You won't find him shooting 4-17 from the floor in a series clinching blowout loss (and .351 for the entire series.) Hell you won't find him shooting 6-18 in a game seven Finals win, either.

Kareem? No way would he shoot 2-7 from the floor in a game seven (win BTW.)

Hakeem? Nope, no way possible that he could shoot 10-25 in clinching game (and yes, somehow a win.)

Duncan? Nope. Just not possible for him to shoot 10-27 in a game seven of the Finals (in a win.)


Meanwhile, in Wilt's two game seven's of his Finals...while he collectively shot 5-24 from the line...he also collectively shot 17-24 from the floor. For a TS% of .542...in losses. Oh, and he had another game seven in the ECF's (a one point loss) in a game in which he shot 6-13 from the line...BUT, he also shot 12-15 from the field...or a TS% of .698!

Think about that...in Wilt's two game seven's in his Finals career...a .709 FG%!

[warriorfan]

You would think Wilt could score more than 10 points vs an injured Nate Thurmond in game 2 but instead he passed over and over to get 10 assists so he could say he had a quadruple double. Wilt was pulling Ricky Davis status shit :oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

You would think Wilt could score more than 10 points vs an injured Nate Thurmond in game 2 but instead he passed over and over to get 10 assists so he could say he had a quadruple double. Wilt was pulling Ricky Davis status shit :oldlol:
Quadruple-Double didn't exist in his era as blocked shots weren't official. And triple-double wasn't even coined until the 1980's. So he was gunning for stats that didn't exist just so people in the future could look back in case some newspaper decided to print his blocked shots figure? Sure, that's more likely than that he was just out there impacting the game in a balanced dominating fashion as he had done all season.

Also, he won that game. Should he have scored more points you think?

[LAZERUSS]

Who estimated those 20 blocks? If it is the guy who filled in the excel stat sheets, and not some first-hand source such as a coach, or Harvey Pollack, or someone of that nature that estimate could be entirely baseless. Just an FYI.

Oh, no doubt that the final number is in question. But an "estimated" 20 blocked shots would be a 99% chance of at least 10.

[CavaliersFTW]

Oh, no doubt that the final number is in question. But an "estimated" 20 blocked shots would be a 99% chance of at least 10.
If the person who estimated those blocks is just some guy who never watched the game Wilt could have blocked 0 shots that game for all he knows the estimates are based on nothing.

I'm just trying to be realistic here. I have the excel file that had all those estimates, I deleted every single one of them unless they were cited to a first-hand source. Conjecture is not a source for estimating.

[warriorfan]

Quadruple-Double didn't exist in his era as blocked shots weren't official. And triple-double wasn't even coined until the 1980's. So he was gunning for stats that didn't exist just so people in the future could look back in case some newspaper decided to print his blocked shots figure? Sure, that's more likely than that he was just out there impacting the game in a balanced dominating fashion as he had done all season.

That is why he only scored 10 points vs an injured Nate Thurmond in 48 minutes of play? Is that dominant fashion? He wasn't purposefully not shooting to pump up his assists in a blow out game, right?

:facepalm

[CavaliersFTW]

That is why he only scored 10 points vs an injured Nate Thurmond in 48 minutes of play? Is that dominant fashion? He wasn't purposefully not shooting to pump up his assists in a blow out game, right?

:facepalm
You'd rather he pump up his points, than his assists, even though his whole style of play that season was to dish the ball out and let his teammates score?

This is getting awkward.

[warriorfan]

You'd rather he pump up his points, than his assists, even though his whole style of play that season was to dish the ball out and let his teammates score?

This is getting awkward.

Actually I would rather he wouldn't pad stats and sit on the bench when it's a 30 point blow out in the 4th quarter and both star players for the opposing teams are injured...Kinda what smart players and coaches do today instead of making it an exhibition side show. :oldlol: at an absurd era of basketball.

[LAZERUSS]

Quadruple-Double didn't exist in his era as blocked shots weren't official. And triple-double wasn't even coined until the 1980's. So he was gunning for stats that didn't exist just so people in the future could look back in case some newspaper decided to print his blocked shots figure? Sure, that's more likely than that he was just out there impacting the game in a balanced dominating fashion as he had done all season.

Also, he won that game. Should he have scored more points you think?

It's interesting that Chamberlain played a PEAK Thurmond, in his greatest season (second in the MVP balloting...and way behind Wilt) in six regular season H2H's, and six more Finals H2H's, and averaged

20.8 ppg, 25.0 rpg, and on a .633 FG% (to Nate's 13.2 ppg, 21.4 rpg, and .308 FG%)...

and then 17.5 ppg, 28.5 rpg, .560 FG% (to Thurmond's 14.3 ppg, 26.7 rpg, and .343 FG%)...


and yet a PEAK Kareem, in his three straight post-season H2H's with an aging Thurmond...shot .486, .428, and even .405 against Nate (and was outscored and outshot from the field by Thurmond in that series.)

Incidently, in Lynch's book on the '67 Sixers, he mentioned that in their first regular season meeting that year with the Warriors, that at halftime, an irate Hannum asked Wilt to take over the scoring instead of facilitating, and Chamberlain responded with 24 second half points (for the game he went 13-18 from the field.) There was NEVER a question about a prime Wilt being capable of scoring against ANYONE.

[LAZERUSS]

Actually I would rather he wouldn't pad stats and sit on the bench when it's a 30 point blow out in the 4th quarter and both star players for the opposing teams are injured...Kinda what smart players and coaches do today instead of making it an exhibition side show. :oldlol: at an absurd era of basketball.

Chamberlain played nearly EVERY MINUTE of EVERY game his ENTIRE career. It would have been "stats-padding" had he played 40 mpg in his career, but was playing 48 mpg in blowouts.

BTW, I can post a TON of CLOSE games in which Chamberlain hung HUGE numbers.

He just plain DOMINATED. PURE-AND-SIMPLE.

[warriorfan]

Chamberlain played nearly EVERY MINUTE of EVERY game his ENTIRE career. It would have been "stats-padding" had he played 40 mpg in his career, but was playing 48 mpg in blowouts.


So... he didn't just stat pad on this one occasion, he stat padded through out his entire career. Got it.

[LAZERUSS]

So... he didn't just stat pad on this one occasion, he stat padded through out his entire career. Got it.

Just a typical "stats-padding" game for Wilt...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196202090BOS.html

Just your normal 20 point 4th quarter comeback, with a typical 48 point game by Chamberlain...and against none other than the clutch Russell.

[Asukal]

Chamberlain played nearly EVERY MINUTE of EVERY game his ENTIRE career. It would have been "stats-padding" had he played 40 mpg in his career, but was playing 48 mpg in blowouts.

BTW, I can post a TON of CLOSE games in which Chamberlain hung HUGE numbers.

He just plain DOMINATED. PURE-AND-SIMPLE.

Dayum! He stat padded his minutes played too. :oldlol: :lol :roll:

Why didn't he stat pad his rings? Oh wait.... :rolleyes: :oldlol:

[aj1987]

Two other more recent centers dipped into the 20's.

2006 NBA Finals: Shaquille O'Neal:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2006_finals.html
46.9 FT% Reg season
37.4 FT% Playoffs
29.2 FT% Finals

2004 NBA Finals: Ben Wallace:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2004_finals.html
49.0 FT% Reg season
42.7 FT% Playoffs
29.4 FT% Finals

Both stayed on the floor. Even though neither could produce a Quadruple-Double in the Finals like Wilt:
https://twitter.com/WiltCArchive/status/595996779193176066
10 points 38 rebounds 10 assists 10 blocks
Shaq:

23.7 PPG in the RS
24.3 PPG in the PO's
29 PPG in the Finals

4/6 in the Finals.

Wilt:

30 PPG in the RS
22 PPG in the PO's
19 PPG in the Finals

2/6 in the Finals.


Shaq in '00:

RS - 29.7 PPG
PO's - 30.7 PPG
Finals - 38 PPG

Shaq in '01:

RS - 28.7 PPG
PO's - 30.4 PPG
Finals - 33 PPG

Shaq in '02:

RS - 27.2 PPG
PO's - 28.5 PPG
Finals - 36.3 PPG

Shaq in '06:

RS - 20 PPG
PO's - 18.4 PPG
Finals - 13.7 PPG

The only time Shaq every actually underperformed in the Finals was in '06.

Wilt in '67:

RS - 24.1 PPG
PO's - 21.7 PPG
Finals - 17.7 PPG

Wilt in '67:

RS - 14.8 PPG
PO's - 14.7 PPG
Finals - 19.4 PPG

Doing it for only the wins. Wilt basically almost always dipped (he's the Big Dipper, after all) from the RS to the PO's to the Finals.

[Marchesk]

Shaq:

4/5 in the Finals.
.

4/6 brah

Lost to Houston, lost to Detroit. Also, his teams got swept 6 times in the playoffs.

[aj1987]

4/6 brah

Lost to Houston, lost to Detroit. Also, his teams got swept 6 times in the playoffs.
I always keep forgetting the '04 Finals. :facepalm

Better than losing 4 times in the Finals, while underperforming significantly with multiple HOF'ers though. Oh, and also not making the PO's while averaging 44.8 PPG. :cheers:

[Marchesk]

I always keep forgetting the '04 Finals. :facepalm

You might could say Kobe carried Shaq to that loss. Not sure if that's an ISH rule yet. Maybe that's how you arrived at 4/5.

[sportjames23]

Did Wilt's team win?

2 times.


































Just like Lebron. :lol

[AirFederer]

GOAT!

http://media.giphy.com/media/5NKVU4Dxu02ac/giphy.gif

[aj1987]

GOAT!

http://media.giphy.com/media/5NKVU4Dxu02ac/giphy.gif
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Did you make that? If you did, :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[AirFederer]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Did you make that? If you did, :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
I wish :cheers:

[Psileas]

That is why he only scored 10 points vs an injured Nate Thurmond in 48 minutes of play? Is that dominant fashion? He wasn't purposefully not shooting to pump up his assists in a blow out game, right?

Yes, this is why. He knew he could shit on Thurmond whenever he wanted to, so he scored 10 points early on, setting the tone for the offensive onslaught of his team, then made fun out his poor opponent by achieving a Quad double while leading the Sixers to the destruction of the Warriors, just because he could. Toying with them. Stay mad. :oldlol:

[warriorfan]

Yes, this is why. He knew he could shit on Thurmond whenever he wanted to, so he scored 10 points early on, setting the tone for the offensive onslaught of his team, then made fun out his poor opponent by achieving a Quad double while leading the Sixers to the destruction of the Warriors, just because he could. Toying with them. Stay mad. :oldlol:

:roll:


Wilt stans digging huge graves for themselves with their blatant admissions of Wilt's stat padding.

[LAZERUSS]

:roll:


Wilt stans digging huge graves for themselves with their blatant admissions of Wilt's stat padding.

Yeah, Chamberlain even admitted that he wanted to lead the league in assists going into his '68 season. And sure enough, his "selfish" play led him to that title. Oh, and also the best record in the league (and by a mile.) Who would have known though, that by passing so much to his teammates, that they would all physically fall apart in the post-season from the exhaustion of shooting, and in fact, Cunningham's wrist completely cracked from the heavy work-load of shooting.

[warriorfan]

Yeah, Chamberlain even admitted that he wanted to lead the league in assists going into his '68 season. And sure enough, his "selfish" play led him to that title. Oh, and also the best record in the league (and by a mile.) Who would have known though, that by passing so much to his teammates, that they would all physically fall apart in the post-season from the exhaustion of shooting, and in fact, Cunningham's wrist completely cracked from the heavy work-load of shooting.

Some people want to win

Some people want to pad stats

We know who Wilt was

[Psileas]

Wilt stans digging huge graves for themselves with their blatant admissions of Wilt's stat padding.

Idiots cannot even make up their minds whether Wilt was choking or statpadding. When he's scoring, he's statpadding, when he's passing, he has to be both choking and statpadding :roll: Whatever helps you sleep at nights. :oldlol:

Yeah, we're "digging graves" by mentioning with how many ways Wilt crapped on the league. :roll:

[warriorfan]

Idiots cannot even make up their minds whether Wilt was choking or statpadding. When he's scoring, he's statpadding, when he's passing, he has to be both choking and statpadding :roll: Whatever helps you sleep at nights. :oldlol:

Yeah, we're "digging graves" by mentioning with how many ways Wilt crapped on the league. :roll:

Everyone else was trying to win while Wilt was trying to pad stats. Wilt stats are not a big deal because he was the only one purposefully stat padding while the rest were trying to actually...you know win the game. That is why Wilt can have all these stupid stats but only have 2 championships while playing in an easy league. Hardly an All Time Great.

[Psileas]

Although I have OP at ignore (I quoted him due to Lazeruss), I now checked his first post here out of curiosity. And it reminded me why he's at ignore:

Would Wilt even be able to stay on the floor in today's game when shooting 30% FT? Hack-a-Wilt would not let him stay on the floor...

Gee, Jordan in '88 was shooting 13.2% from the 3 point line. I wonder if he'd be able to be playing in today's 3 point oriented game. :lol
Kareem in '84 was grabbing only 7.3 rpg. I wonder if he'd be playing nowadays, against today's bigger, stronger players. Nah, I don't think so. :oldlol:

[aj1987]

Although I have OP at ignore (I quoted him due to Lazeruss), I now checked his first post here out of curiosity. And it reminded me why he's at ignore:

Would Wilt even be able to stay on the floor in today's game when shooting 30% FT? Hack-a-Wilt would not let him stay on the floor...

Gee, Jordan in '88 was shooting 13.2% from the 3 point line. I wonder if he'd be able to be playing in today's 3 point oriented game. :lol
Kareem in '84 was grabbing only 7.3 rpg. I wonder if he'd be playing nowadays, against today's bigger, stronger players. Nah, I don't think so. :oldlol:
MJ was taking less than 1 3 a game during that period. From '88 to '98, he averaged 35.4% on 2.2 3's a game.

Kareem was past his prime and was averaging ~30 MPG.

Anymore excuses for Wilt's pathetic FT shooting?

[kshutts1]

Let's say Wilt stat-padded.

Was he the only stat padder in history? Because I don't see anyone else with numbers that even come CLOSE to his, much less better than his.

Stat-padder or not, winner or not, he is arguably the most dominant individual to ever pick up a basketball. Whether or not he chose to display that dominance in the " 2010's socially acceptable" manner (keep in mind he played in the 60's and 70's) is another matter altogether.

But one can not deny his dominance.

[ClipperRevival]

Let's say Wilt stat-padded.

Was he the only stat padder in history? Because I don't see anyone else with numbers that even come CLOSE to his, much less better than his.

Stat-padder or not, winner or not, he is arguably the most dominant individual to ever pick up a basketball. Whether or not he chose to display that dominance in the " 2010's socially acceptable" manner (keep in mind he played in the 60's and 70's) is another matter altogether.

But one can not deny his dominance.

...until the playoffs.

[CavaliersFTW]

...until the playoffs.
3 quadruple doubles in the playoffs... how many players have done that again?

[kshutts1]

...until the playoffs.
Yes, 22/24/4 on 50% shooting is atrocious. You are correct, sir. That is clearly worse than MJs 33/6/6 on 49%.

[Psileas]

Let's say Wilt stat-padded.

Was he the only stat padder in history? Because I don't see anyone else with numbers that even come CLOSE to his, much less better than his.

Stat-padder or not, winner or not, he is arguably the most dominant individual to ever pick up a basketball. Whether or not he chose to display that dominance in the " 2010's socially acceptable" manner (keep in mind he played in the 60's and 70's) is another matter altogether.

But one can not deny his dominance.

Stat padder or not, he still accepted the reduced scoring role and later on, even the Bill Russell role, in order to win, which isn't a trait of selfish stat padders, let alone losers. Why did Wilt accept to ever change his role had he been such an egoist and, even more so, why didn't he use his team's 1968 loss as an excuse to return to scoring big? Why did he ever want to play in LA, while knowing that he'd join a team that already had 2 great scorers and that would have a big toll on his stats?
Obviously he didn't care about winning. :rolleyes:

[kshutts1]

Elgin Baylor, another great from Wilt's time... 27/13/4 on 44% :lol
Russell? 16/25/5 on 43% :oldlol:
Shaq? 24/12/3 on 56% Getting closer.. I guess... if I deign to lower my standards.
Magic? 20/8/12 on 51%. That's really comparable. I guess.
Bird? 24/10/7 on 47%.

Any others? Is there anyone else that you want me to list?

Essentially what I just showed, for those with reading/numbers comprehension, is that Wilt, even with his lesser numbers in the playoffs, STILL outpaces his competition, including those such as MJ, Bird and Shaq that are notorious for being clutch or for their MDE acronym.

Granted, this is just numbers, and only the available ones at that. It's not taking in to account a likely-conservative estimate of 5 blocks per game for Wilt. Or his injuries. Or any other extenuating circumstances. Just raw data.

[Psileas]

Yes, 22/24/4 on 50% shooting is atrocious. You are correct, sir. That is clearly worse than MJs 33/6/6 on 49%.

Agreed. Plus, it's not even 22/24/4 on 50%, it's 23/24/4 on 52%.

[ClipperRevival]

Yes, 22/24/4 on 50% shooting is atrocious. You are correct, sir. That is clearly worse than MJs 33/6/6 on 49%.

Relative to his regular season production, it's historic how much his production drops off. Hakeem shits on Wilt's playoff numbers with 25.9 career and 27.9 finals.

Wilt did most of his damage his first 6 years in the league, when he averaged 32.5 shot attempts per game and averaged 40.6 ppg with a shitty team. He had a green light to shoot more than anyone in history. Many dominant players can put up empy stats if you give them the green light on shitty teams. Starting his 7th year, when he played for teams with talent, he averaged a measley 21.7 ppg until he retired. I am not making this stuff. It's in black and white. Dude was overrated and a choker.

[kshutts1]

Agreed. Plus, it's not even 22/24/4 on 50%, it's 23/24/4 on 52%.
No clue where I got my 50% from. Fail by me :( But if we're rounding up his 22.5 to 23, then we must round up his 24.5 to 25.

23/25/4 on 52%

[CavaliersFTW]

Relative to his regular season production, it's historic how much his production drops off. Hakeem shits on Wilt's playoff numbers with 25.9 career and 27.9 finals.

Wilt did most of his damage his first 6 years in the league, when he averaged 32.5 shot attempts per game and averaged 40.6 ppg with a shitty team. He had a green light to shoot more than anyone in history. Many dominant players can put up empy stats if you give them the green light on shitty teams. Starting his 7th year, when he played for teams with talent, he averaged a measley 21.7 ppg until he retired. I am not making this stuff. It's in black and white. Dude was overrated and a choker.
Correction: Zero players have ever even come close to what Wilt did when given green lights to score. Not MJ, not Kareem, not Kobe. Nobody has ever even gotten close. And they have certainly had the opportunities to try.

[kshutts1]

Relative to his regular season production, it's historic how much his production drops off. Hakeem shits on Wilt's playoff numbers with 25.9 career and 27.9 finals.

Wilt did most of his damage his first 6 years in the league, when he averaged 32.5 shot attempts per game and averaged 40.6 ppg with a shitty team. He had a green light to shoot more than anyone in history. Many dominant players can put up empy stats if you give them the green light on shitty teams. Starting his 7th year, when he played for teams with talent, he averaged a measley 21.7 ppg until he retired. I am not making this stuff. It's in black and white. Dude was overrated and a choker.
Hakeem? Sorry, I must have missed him... probably because he's only in my second tier...

26/11/3 on 53%.

Please show me where he "shits on" Wilt's playoff numbers. I'll wait.
Please be sure to point out the fact that Hakeem averaged 3 more ppg and 1 additional percentage point, and please feel free to conveniently leave out Wilt's gigantic lead in rebounds, and likely gigantic lead in blocks.

[ClipperRevival]

Stat padder or not, he still accepted the reduced scoring role and later on, even the Bill Russell role, in order to win, which isn't a trait of selfish stat padders, let alone losers. Why did Wilt accept to ever change his role had he been such an egoist and, even more so, why didn't he use his team's 1968 loss as an excuse to return to scoring big? Why did he ever want to play in LA, while knowing that he'd join a team that already had 2 great scorers and that would have a big toll on his stats?
Obviously he didn't care about winning. :rolleyes:

He has all these records but never once led his team in scoring when ne won a title. That just doesn't sound right. 2nd leading scorer in 1967 and 4th leading scorer in 1972. He won fmvp in 1972 if you can believe it. Overrated, stat padding choker.

His off the chart rebounding numbers is nothing but a result of him being a legit 7'1" without shoes with long ass arms and athleticism. Anyone with his traits can grab boards.

[kshutts1]

And, as for the "historic" drop off in production, who the hell cares? In fact, that alone shows how dominant Wilt was as an individual. Even after said "historic" drop off in product, he's the best statistical playoff performer.

[ClipperRevival]

Correction: Zero players have ever even come close to what Wilt did when given green lights to score. Not MJ, not Kareem, not Kobe. Nobody has ever even gotten close. And they have certainly had the opportunities to try.

Please. None of them took even close to the amount of shots Wilt took his first 6 years in the league. Only guy close is Barry. No one had the green light to just go get his like Wilt and it's not even close. I am not making this up. It's all there in black and white.

[T_L_P]

And, as for the "historic" drop off in production, who the hell cares? In fact, that alone shows how dominant Wilt was as an individual. Even after said "historic" drop off in product, he's the best statistical playoff performer.

22.5 PPG (in 47 MPG) on teams that routinely scored 110+ PPG, adjusted for pace, around 15 RPG, 4 APG.

I don't really see how that can beat Jordan's 34/6/6 on slower teams.

[kshutts1]

Please. None of them took even close to the amount of shots Wilt took his first 6 years in the league. Only guy close is Barry. No one had the green light to just go get his like Wilt and it's not even close. I am not making this up. It's all there in black and white.
Rick Barry?
His highest FGA per game was 28.7 His highest FG% (different season than FGA) was 51%.

Wilt? His lowest FGA per game in his first 6 seasons (your criteria) was 28.5. Nearly identical. His lowest FG% was 46% in his rookie year. Mind you, I said LOWEST. After that, Wilt's second lowest FG% was 51%, just like Barry's HIGHEST.

So.. volume or not, what Wilt was able to accomplish is extraordinary. The volume itself, actually, makes it more extraordinary, as he maintained a very high, especially relative to league average!!!, FG% even with that ridiculous volume.

I can understand someone arguing that Wilt was not a great player; I disagree, but I can understand that. What I can't understand is someone arguing that Wilt was not the most dominant individual ever.
You claim pace? Look at his stats relative to league average.
You claim titles/wins? Look at relative strength of teammates/coaches.

Are we making excuses? I suppose. But only because we feel forced to by those individuals that refuse to wrap their heads around Wilt's numbers because it seems too unreal, too unfair.

[kshutts1]

22.5 PPG (in 47 MPG) on teams that routinely scored 110+ PPG, adjusted for pace, around 15 RPG, 4 APG.

I don't really see how that can beat Jordan's 34/6/6 on slower teams.
Why are we adjusting for pace? Wilt didn't get to choose his era, nor did MJ.

Everyone in Wilt's era played with the same pace, just as everyone in MJs era.

On top of that, with MJ playing a slower pace than Wilt, why then was not able to play a similar number of minutes? And be equally effective? It's very interesting that this man, Wilt, that towered over all those other tiny white guys was also the most well-conditioned player in the league. Fascinating.

[ClipperRevival]

Wilt's finals ppg avg is 18.7. This guy got worse as the stakes got higher.

Hakeem on the other end got better as the stakes got higher. 22 ppg reg season, 25.9 ppg playoffs and 27.5 ppg finals (6th all time).

That's what "the man" does. Come up big when it matters.

[ClipperRevival]

Rick Barry?
His highest FGA per game was 28.7 His highest FG% (different season than FGA) was 51%.

Wilt? His lowest FGA per game in his first 6 seasons (your criteria) was 28.5. Nearly identical. His lowest FG% was 46% in his rookie year. Mind you, I said LOWEST. After that, Wilt's second lowest FG% was 51%, just like Barry's HIGHEST.

So.. volume or not, what Wilt was able to accomplish is extraordinary. The volume itself, actually, makes it more extraordinary, as he maintained a very high, especially relative to league average!!!, FG% even with that ridiculous volume.

I can understand someone arguing that Wilt was not a great player; I disagree, but I can understand that. What I can't understand is someone arguing that Wilt was not the most dominant individual ever.
You claim pace? Look at his stats relative to league average.
You claim titles/wins? Look at relative strength of teammates/coaches.

Are we making excuses? I suppose. But only because we feel forced to by those individuals that refuse to wrap their heads around Wilt's numbers because it seems too unreal, too unfair.

Only an idiot would claim he wasn't great. He obviously was. But he was flawed. The more I dig deeper into his career beyond just the raw numbers and see more and more flaws.

[T_L_P]

Why are we adjusting for pace? Wilt didn't get to choose his era, nor did MJ.

Everyone in Wilt's era played with the same pace, just as everyone in MJs era.

On top of that, with MJ playing a slower pace than Wilt, why then was not able to play a similar number of minutes? And be equally effective? It's very interesting that this man, Wilt, that towered over all those other tiny white guys was also the most well-conditioned player in the league. Fascinating.

Why? Because otherwise we'd be talking about Walt Bellamy's rookie season (31/19) more than any of Duncan's or Garnett's.

And you know why we don't? Because we know those stats are inflated. Defenses had barely developed yet, and a large amount of the time teams weren't even playing it at all.

Go back and watch some Wilt footage. Half the time defenders don't contest, and every now and then you'll see teams start running up the court because the shot even leaves his hand.

Jordan couldn't play 48 MPG because he didn't stay in during blowouts all the time. Why would he risk injured/fatigue by staying in a decided game like Wilt did? To pad his stats for 15 years?

Also, he couldn't play 48 MPG because he had to compete on defenses a lot more, and he actually had to run up and down the court; not just slow-jog it.

[Psileas]

22.5 PPG (in 47 MPG) on teams that routinely scored 110+ PPG, adjusted for pace, around 15 RPG, 4 APG.

I don't really see how that can beat Jordan's 34/6/6 on slower teams.

1. 22.5 doesn't tell the whole story, considering he played 2/3 of his playoff games when he reduced his scoring. In most of his postseasons, he was averaging either way more than this number or a number very close to this, but combined with a shitload of rebounds, assists and blocked shots. Plus a smaller number of Bill Russell-like figures, which are still outstanding, ignoring scoring.

2. Wilt's playoff rebounding, even pace adjusted, isn't equal to 15 rpg, more like 17 rpg.

3. Pace adjustment affects team scoring as well. You can't apply pace adjustment and leave team scoring as it is. So, even if you take his 22.5 ppg and adjust for pace, you'll get a figure that is actually more impressive than what it looks like in the first place.

4. You adjusted for pace for Wilt, but not for Jordan. Do you think 1980's or 90's stats (esp. 80's) don't have statistical sectors that need adjustment?

5. Pace is mostly irrelevant for bigs' scoring. Wilt wasn't out there jacking shots in the first 5'' of his team's possessions. Especially older Wilt taking 10-15 shots per game in a reduced scoring role isn't going to need to take even less shots just because the "pace" is lower, since the vast majority of his shots is taken in 5 vs 5 conditions.

[kshutts1]

Wilt's finals ppg avg is 18.7. This guy got worse as the stakes got higher.

Hakeem on the other end got better as the stakes got higher. 22 ppg reg season, 25.9 ppg playoffs and 27.5 ppg finals (6th all time).

That's what "the man" does. Come up big when it matters.
Some people will always move goalposts; they'll never admit that their previous view may have been misinformed, or incorrect, but rather they'll change the argument as a whole.

[AirFederer]

18 ppg in finals, biggest drop off ever
Horrendous FT shooting in finals
Lost 5/7 final series (iirc)

"Has a case as the most clutch performer in NBA history"

:roll:

[kshutts1]

Why? Because otherwise we'd be talking about Walt Bellamy's rookie season (31/19) more than any of Duncan's or Garnett's.

And you know why we don't? Because we know those stats are inflated. Defenses had barely developed yet, and a large amount of the time teams weren't even playing it at all.

Go back and watch some Wilt footage. Half the time defenders don't contest, and every now and then you'll see teams start running up the court because the shot even leaves his hand.

Jordan couldn't play 48 MPG because he didn't stay in during blowouts all the time. Why would he risk injured/fatigue by staying in a decided game like Wilt did? To pad his stats for 15 years?

Also, he couldn't play 48 MPG because he had to compete on defenses a lot more, and he actually had to run up and down the court; not just slow-jog it.

The issue with pace is that it's not a linear relationship.

That said, I prefer to look at stats relative to competition; it's a much more fair way than using pace.

In the case of Bellamy, I think it's fair to say he had one of the best rookie seasons of all time. But not a GOAT season, because his competition put up 50/25 and 30/11/11 and 38/19 and 31/19 that year.

Honestly, the best use for pace and pace adjustments are comparisons across teams within a close/similar time frame. Pace adjustments should not be made from the 60's to today, but rather the 00's to today.

Pace adjustments, however, should be recognized as a factor, but a much better comparison tool is performance relative to peers.