How would the 76ers All-Time Team do against the All-Time Lakers team?

[RRR3]

Been using Whatifsports a lot lately for fun, and the simulator has indicated that the All-Time Lakers team easily beats the All-Time Celtics team in most cases. All-Time Bulls also usually lose, although IIRC I ran a simulation where they did okay. The issues I have are selecting players (some are obvious, some I have to just quickly glance at stats and base it off what I've heard), selecting which season for each particular player (again, stats usually are all I have here, unless it is a very recent season), and setting the rotations. The All-Time team I may have found that can most challenge, or even beat, the All-Time Lakers is the All-Time 76ers team. They won 4-1 in a best of 7 simulation in which they started as the home team. Further simulations obviously will indicate more, and again, this is just a website, and is not indicative of what really would happen.


But do you guys think the Sixers could make the Lakers sweat in a series?



Here is what I have for the All Time 76ers:

2001 Allen Iverson
1966 Hal Greer
1980 Julius Erving
1988 Charles Barkley
1967 Wilt Chamberlain

1983 Moses Malone
1970 Billy Cunningham
1958 Dolph Schayes
1981 Bobby Jones
2008 Andre Iguodala
1986 Maurice Cheeks
1991 Hersey Hawkins






Here is the All-Time Lakers team

1987 Magic Johnson
2003 Kobe Bryant
1961 Elgin Baylor
1976 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2000 Shaquille O'Neal

1966 Jerry West
1969 Wilt Chamberlain
1972 Gail Goodrich
1953 George Mikan
2010 Pau Gasol
1981 Jamaal Wilkes
1990 James Worthy

[RRR3]

If anyone is curious, here is what I created for Boston


The Celtics

1957 Bob Cousy
1965 Sam Jones
1986 Larry Bird
1973 Dave Cowens
1962 Bill Russell

1972 John Havlicek
1987 Kevin McHale
1956 Bill Sharman
1972 Jo Jo White
2002 Paul Pierce
1982 Robert Parish
2008 Kevin Garnet


I couldn't decide whether or not Havlicek and McHale should start, since they often were 6th men. Regardless, they got the most minutes at their respective positions.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Lakers are better at every position..

[RRR3]

Ran another simulation, this time with the Lakers with HC. Sixers won in 7, barely though. Very surprising, I do think this simulator doesn't accurately reflect the frequency at which some players draw fouls or shoot three pointers. For instance, in the decisive game 7, Kareem Shaq AND Magic COMBINED for ZERO free throws :biggums: Can't see that happening. Ever.

[RRR3]

The Game 7 box score

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/4c80837d44c5508b8c3d1d42a3c8fd67.jpg\




@Mark,


Are they? Wilt vs Shaq is certainly debatable, as is Dr. J vs Baylor.

[TheMarkMadsen]

damn i was about to blast you for using a simulation..

but i see that two wilt chamberlains combined for 11 points on 33% FT and I realized how fuccing accurate this is..

[RRR3]

damn i was about to blast you for using a simulation..

but i see that two wilt chamberlains combined for 11 points on 33% FT and I realized how fuccing accurate this is..
:roll: :roll: :roll:


It is very fun to do, you should try it out. :cheers:

But like I said, it does need work.


Fun thing to do since you're a Kobe guy (I did it myself even though I'm not): make a team with 06 Kobe and give him the worst possible teammates (i.e. starting lineup of Scalabrine, VSpan, Tskitishvili, Adam Morrison and even worse bench if possible). He will score a lot to say the least.

[deja vu]

Wilt with the typical Game 7 choke. LOL

[RRR3]

Celtics vs Lakers again. Lakers home team. Lakers win 4-2.


Here are box scores for games 3, 5 and 6.


http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/10cb6da14326a8200ccc362dd70b2e68.jpg


http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/a29145732518f07905e759ebc010c371.jpg


http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/0d038217be1e4b3f3acd5ed5982af54b.jpg

[r0drig0lac]

Kobe with 3 FGA? :eek:

[kshutts1]

One thing I noticed with using WIS is that you need to keep in mind the usage figure attached to each player.

Also, since it's a sim it obviously doesn't take in to account egos.

And, lastly, what were you adjusting minutes to? Did you touch any of that?

There are so many minor details that matter, that a real life coach would do by second nature... again, it's just a sim. We all could have told you that the 76ers all time team was nasty, though.

[RRR3]

One thing I noticed with using WIS is that you need to keep in mind the usage figure attached to each player.

Also, since it's a sim it obviously doesn't take in to account egos.

And, lastly, what were you adjusting minutes to? Did you touch any of that?

There are so many minor details that matter, that a real life coach would do by second nature... again, it's just a sim. We all could have told you that the 76ers all time team was nasty, though.
Minutes I based on how great each player was for that team and how many minutes there were to go around at their position(s).

Also, the Celtics team I created is getting consistently destroyed by both the Lakers and Sixer teams. Should I try the Bulls instead?
The Heat all-time team is pretty nuts tbqh even though Miami is a newer franchise

[RRR3]

Curious what older posters think?

[LAZERUSS]

Curious what older posters think?

One thing is for certain, a '67 Wilt is not going to get outplayed by any Laker center (including a Laker Wilt.) And we know that Moses just dominated Kareem in their career H2H's, as well. Don't be misled by his lower scoring, either. Just the season before, he was just annihilating his HOF peers in their H2H's, (hanging a 46-34 game on Russell in the EDF's, outscoring Bellamy by a 50-26 margin, and having games against Thurmond in which he outscored him by margins of 38-15 and 45-13.)

Still, LA would have a huge edge in the backcourt.

I would give the Lakers a slight nod.

[KembaWalker]

One thing is for certain, a '67 Wilt is not going to get outplayed by any Laker center (including a Laker Wilt.) And we know that Moses just dominated Kareem in their career H2H's, as well. Don't be misled by his lower scoring, either. Just the season before, he was just annihilating his HOF peers in their H2H's, (hanging a 46-34 game on Russell in the EDF's, outscoring Bellamy by a 50-26 margin, and having games against Thurmond in which he outscored him by margins of 38-15 and 45-13.)

Still, LA would have a huge edge in the backcourt.

I would give the Lakers a slight nod.

That's not for certain

[RRR3]

I tried out the All-Time Bulls Team, although they did better than the Celtics vs the Lakers and 76ers, they still lost more than they won. I will try the Warriors All-Time Team now (they are pretty stacked actually!)

[kennethgriffin]

i dont see any universe where prime kobe loses to anyone with that amount of help



just with one other good player he's beatin all time stacked teams

the early 2000 blazers/kings multiple times

the 2010 celtics




just prime 06 kobe and 00 shaq and roll players would give the all time sixers trouble




prime kobe by himself outscores WCF champions



give him west/baylor/shaq/wilt/kareem etc...


its over

[KembaWalker]

I tried out the All-Time Bulls Team, although they did better than the Celtics vs the Lakers and 76ers, they still lost more than they won. I will try the Warriors All-Time Team now (they are pretty stacked actually!)

Post the teams you're using for All Time Bulls and Warriors, may I suggest All Time Pistons next

[RRR3]

Post the teams you're using for All Time Bulls and Warriors, may I suggest All Time Pistons next
I will do the Bulls and Pistons again, I already did them. I will post hold on man. Pistons got killed the first time I tried it though.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

LMAO at those Wilt numbers. That is too funny :oldlol:

[KembaWalker]

I will do the Bulls and Pistons again, I already did them. I will post hold on man. Pistons got killed the first time I tried it though.

lmao yeah not surprised about Pistons, I just feel like they'd have some gritty ass defense with pretty much the bad boy era and the 04 team combined

[RRR3]

Here is the Warriors, haven't simulated yet. They only let you do 3 NBA "Dream Teams" at once, and I am keeping my Lakers and Sixers teams, so I can only do one a time.




Warriors


2015 Stephen Curry
1990 Chris Mullin
1975 Rick Barry
1969 Nate Thurmond
1962 Wilt Chamberlain

1991 Tim Hardaway
1963 Guy Rodgers
1997 Latrell Sprewell
1991 Mitch Richmond
1952 Paul Arizin
1953 Neil Johnston
1983 Joe Barry Carroll

[RRR3]

Simulated Lakers vs Warriors in two 7 game series. Here are the box scores



Series 1 Warriors with Homecourt. Warriors Win 4-2

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/aafe06d05ef6f91d7de559b7ca2b10a9.jpg

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/40735505ac474fcba57985b524145439.jpg

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/eeb78cfb24a61df5079d2cfc9fc75510.jpg

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/b46ab58450f9cd2761aac175761631c6.jpg

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/f5f20c3801bc3745ef6cfde804d47609.jpg

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/2b020a6503e6c8f718ebf6845267c482.jpg

[RRR3]

Series 2, Lakers with Homecourt. Lakers win 4-1.


http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/91d8d635eb3ae600bf3b59450dcce730.jpg

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/7ebb6ad675a414a6e0ffc888f68522d2.jpg

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/464850bad6a7a231d974630d91d32aa7.jpg

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/178967c2e4cddc7d47b69b2b02035089.jpg

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/7974395bb3e3cd432a78a7d0390740cf.jpg

[RRR3]

76ers beat the Warriors easily both times, 4-1. Not posting stats again, too lazy lol

[RRR3]

Bulls All-Time Team

2011 Derrick Rose
1991 Michael Jordan
1994 Scottie Pippen
1971 Bob Love
1979 Artis Gilmore

1971 Chet Walker
1971 Jerry Sloan
2011 Luol Deng
2014 Joakim Noah
1996 Dennis Rodman
1983 Reggie Theus
1992 Horace Grant

[RRR3]

Lakers Beat Bulls 4-1 and 4-2.


Bulls (with HCA) easily beat the Sixers though 4-1. I messed up in adjusting home court back and forth, so it's not necessarily legit.

Sixers with HCA beat Bulls 4-2.

[RRR3]

Post the teams you're using for All Time Bulls and Warriors, may I suggest All Time Pistons next

Pistons All-Time Team

1985 Isiah Thomas
1993 Joe Dumars
2000 Grant Hill
1992 Dennis Rodman
1974 Bob Lanier

2004 Ben Wallace
1968 Dave Bing
2006 Chauncey Billups
2006 Richard Hamilton
1958 George Yardley
1961 Bailey Howell
1984 Bill Laimbeer

[RRR3]

Lakers easily beat the Pistons twice (4-1 each time).

Sixers beat Pistons 4-2 and 4-1.

[KembaWalker]

Pistons All-Time Team

1985 Isiah Thomas
1993 Joe Dumars
2000 Grant Hill
1992 Dennis Rodman
1974 Bob Lanier

2004 Ben Wallace
1968 Dave Bing
2006 Chauncey Billups
2006 Richard Hamilton
1958 George Yardley
1961 Bailey Howell
1984 Bill Laimbeer


Nice squad, looks like a fun site to play around with

[jayfan]

Lakers easily beat the Pistons twice (4-1 each time).

Sixers beat Pistons 4-2 and 4-1.

No way would that be the outcome. That Pistons team has arguably 2 top 5 defenders in NBA history. And Dumars is way up there, too. And plenty of scoring to go around. No weaknesses.







.

[#number6ix#]

Do one with the all time Miami Heat I believe they can hang with anyone

[RRR3]

No way would that be the outcome. That Pistons team has arguably 2 top 5 defenders in NBA history. And Dumars is way up there, too. And plenty of scoring to go around. No weaknesses.







.
And the Lakers team has 6 or 7 of the top 20 players in NBA history.

[RRR3]

Do one with the all time Miami Heat I believe they can hang with anyone
It was hard to decide on the Heat team, but here is what I have


Heat All-Time

1997 Tim Hardaway
2009 Dwyane Wade
2013 LeBron James
2000 Alonzo Mourning
2005 Shaquille O'Neal

1995 Glen Rice
2002 Eddie Jones
1992 Rony Seikaly
2011 Chris Bosh
1999 P.J. Brown
1994 Steve Smith
2000 Jamal Mashburn


:confusedshrug: I wanted to put UD in there.



Simulation wise:

Anyways, Heat lost to Lakers in 5 games when they had HCA. However, they beat LA in 6 as the road team.


Against the 76ers, when the Heat had HCA, they won in 7 games. They then beat the 76ers (who had HCA) in 5 games.

[Marchesk]

Bucks next? Kareem, Oscar, Allen, Moncrief, Pressey, Robinson, Sikma, Cummings, etc,

[RRR3]

Bucks next? Kareem, Oscar, Allen, Moncrief, Pressey, Robinson, Sikma, Cummings, etc,
Deleted my all-time teams, have to remake em. :coleman:

[RRR3]

Bucks next? Kareem, Oscar, Allen, Moncrief, Pressey, Robinson, Sikma, Cummings, etc,
Bucks had HCA, and Lakers swept them :yaohappy:



Game 1 :roll:



http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/af66e27780c6e4a35d8fcb6c1e767518.jpg

[RRR3]

Bucks did much better in round 2, even though the Lakers had HCA this time. Took em to 7 and only lost by 4 in game 7.


Game 5 was a particularly crazy game:

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/b8a169878ac6ef6351a739449b91df04.jpg

[And1AllDay]

I don't think any team is beating the all-time Lakers in a 7-game series. No sir, no how.

[Marchesk]

I don't think any team is beating the all-time Lakers in a 7-game series. No sir, no how.

It's a little unfair that the Lakers can have Wilt, Shaq and Kareem. Keep Shaq, leave Wilt on the 76ers and Kareem on the Bucks.

[Marchesk]

Bucks had HCA, and Lakers swept them

That first game was brutal. Bucks were intimidated in the first series.

[RRR3]

It's a little unfair that the Lakers can have Wilt, Shaq and Kareem. Keep Shaq, leave Wilt on the 76ers and Kareem on the Bucks.
Kareem played most of his career in LA tho

[RRR3]

That first game was brutal. Bucks were intimidated in the first series.
Lol Shaq was scoring at will against them

[TheMarkMadsen]

i did some sims and i hate the system, for instance D Fish averaged like 8 assist in the 4 games I tried while Kobe never got above 4 :oldlol: :oldlol:

[RRR3]

i did some sims and i hate the system, for instance D Fish averaged like 8 assist in the 4 games I tried while Kobe never got above 4 :oldlol: :oldlol:
Did you set up the lineups yourself or not?


I did the Spurs all time team and the Lakers swept them easily. simulator seemed to know Bean had success against them he won player of the game twice and in one of those games he hit a three to tie and a three to win in double OT

[KobesFinger]

Do the following teams all at their peaks please:

08 Celtics
13 Lakers
04 Lakers
86 Celtics

Each team realistically could start 3+ HOFers at their peaks

[Dr.J4ever]

No Andrew Toney? Hersey Hawkins really?:facepalm

[RRR3]

No Andrew Toney? Hersey Hawkins really?:facepalm
Didn't Toney have like 2 healthy seasons? I thought about him, idk man. I can edit him in but it won't change much-neither of them will get many minutes or affect the game much on that team.


Also, dude, I wasn't alive then, I am basing it off of stats and hearsay. So obviously it won't be perfect. I thought about Toney, because I have heard he was very important to those 80's Sixers teams.


Hawkins with Sixers: 403 games, 36.1 MPG 19.0 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 3.4 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.4 BPG on .464/.406/.867 shooting

Toney with Sixers (entire career): 468 games, 26.9 MPG, 15.9 PPG, 2.2 RPG, 4.2 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.2 BPG on .500/.342/.797 shooting


Since you know more than I do, why was Toney so much better? Not trying to be a dick, like I said the stats didn't necessarily favor Toney though, and I also made these teams very quickly without doing in-depth research.

[kshutts1]

The team wouldn't do well in a sim, but the all-time Suns team is actually pretty solid...

Nash/KJ/Kidd
Majerle/JJ/Westphal
Hawkins/Marion
Barkley/Marion
Amare/Shaq

[RRR3]

The team wouldn't do well in a sim, but the all-time Suns team is actually pretty solid...

Nash/KJ/Kidd
Majerle/JJ/Westphal
Hawkins/Marion
Barkley/Marion
Amare/Shaq
Shaq isn't on the all-time Suns team. He played 103 games and put up 16.5/9 on the Suns. It'd be Alvan Adams and/or Tom Chambers.

[Dr.J4ever]

Didn't Toney have like 2 healthy seasons? I thought about him, idk man. I can edit him in but it won't change much-neither of them will get many minutes or affect the game much on that team.


Also, dude, I wasn't alive then, I am basing it off of stats and hearsay. So obviously it won't be perfect. I thought about Toney, because I have heard he was very important to those 80's Sixers teams.


Hawkins with Sixers: 403 games, 36.1 MPG 19.0 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 3.4 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.4 BPG on .464/.406/.867 shooting

Toney with Sixers (entire career): 468 games, 26.9 MPG, 15.9 PPG, 2.2 RPG, 4.2 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.2 BPG on .500/.342/.797 shooting


Since you know more than I do, why was Toney so much better? Not trying to be a dick, like I said the stats didn't necessarily favor Toney though, and I also made these teams very quickly without doing in-depth research.

I have said it in other posts, and I will repeat it here--Toney is one of the best SGs, not just in 76er history, but maybe ever. His numbers are deceiving. He played with loaded teams, and then he battled injury right after peaking.

The 76ers didn't want to believe in his stress fractures, based on the limited knowledge on that medical condition at the time. He ended up retiring early. NBA history won't remember that at his peak he was the total offensive player. He could shoot off the pass, off the dribble, had a great first step, and he could take it strong to the hole with his chiseled frame. When he was on, it was lights out for the other team. The early 80s Celtics so feared him, Danny Ainge said they feared him more than any player, including Michael Jordan. He was called the "Boston Strangler."

I still remember him averaging almost 20ppg as our third option in 1983. I tell you if Toney played for a less loaded or stacked team, he would easily contend for scoring titles. He could defend, and he could pass as well.

Hawkins played for non-contending teams, and context is so important here. Career stats don't give justice to this player comparison. If you like, you can insert Andrew's 1983 season. Check that season out.

There is no doubt that Toney is SUPERIOR to Hawkins.