Was the NBA truly better back then or are we all just nostalgic?

[Westbrook0]

Any time I see old clips, I tend to think, "Man, the NBA was so amazing those days, I miss those days."

Do you all feel the same way? At first I think, "Nah, that's just me being nostalgic. There is as much talent in the NBA currently as there has been in a long time."

Then I realize that the NBA back in the 80s and 90s undeniably had a different flare than today's game. There were true rivalries - good guys and bad guys. Teams and players disliked each other. There were storylines. There were fights and rough plays. Today, guys wear hipster clothes and opponents hang out together after the games. There is a true difference in culture.

I used to think I was just being nostalgic for the past, but I really do think there is a difference between how the NBA "felt" back then and how it feels now.

Thoughts?

[bdreason]

The NBA is in a golden age, and this is coming from someone who was raised on 90's ball.

The 90's gets a lot of hype because the NBA really went global with the exposure from the Olympic games and the major influx of sponsor money. The league itself was in a transition period, where the legend of the 80's were fading out and the expansion of the league diluted the overall talent base. Don't get me wrong, there were still a lot of great players (especially Bigs) in the 90's, and the game was played with more intensity and grit... but I would say the league is in a better state today than at any time in the 90's. There's so much basketball talent coming from so many places around the World nowadays. What really impresses me is the recent movement back towards real, team-oriented offense/defense... even if it means softer rules and way too much 3-point chucking.

[ShawkFactory]

You say "we all"...but it's impossible to be nostalgic about something that you weren't alive for. Like...by definition

[FKAri]

There were a lot of star bogs in the 90's but the average talent level of the league is higher than it has ever been.

[Nuff Said]

I miss the trash talking. The game was way more fun with overconfident players who not only wanted to win but wanted to beat everyone in the process, sort of like how great boxers prove themselves. Just look at the dream team documentary and how competitive they were just in practices. The flopping is also really bad nowadays to a point where some games just aren't even watchable.

[Nastradamus]

There are plusses and minuses. The talent depth is much greater, even with expansion. Some of the rosters at the top are as stacked as some of those Laker/Celtics teams even with it being a capped era. That's insane. The real difference is the 4th-10th guys on your average roster. The international guys and the kids coming out 2-3 years earlier, plus the expansion of the game for youths throughout the country has brought a ton of extra talent to the game. Money is really the main draw too.

The things we lack today are the physicality. Its still a very physical game, but you don't see the goonish stuff any more, or fights. Not sure that's a bad thing, but its good theater for casual fans.

We also lack fundamentals. They aren't terrible, and there are a lot of good fundamental players, but due to kids skipping college and playing AAU, fundamentals have definitely taken a hit. Other than shooting and defense, SOMETIMES, its very difficult to improve skills as an NBA player. It requires a ton of work to maintain the skills you have and stay in shape and there are few practices during the year. Throw in the travel and trying to see your family once in a while and adding new skills is very difficult. Perfecting an NBA skill can take 10 years of work

[SamuraiSWISH]

90s was the greatest mix of physicality, athleticism, skill, player intelligence, toughness, size, defense, and offense. More diverse skill sets and looks. HS players, 1 and dones, ISO centric games, lack of refinement and skill, homoginazation of team playing styles, lack of quality big men, AAU cookie cutter players, influx of Euro trend. It heavily diluted the game. 1999 to 2007 wasn't very good. It picked up a lot starting in 2008.

[Kblaze8855]

Depends what you mean by better. The games today are getting back to being as entertaining as they were. Great eras of PG play have something to do with it. But whatever the reason we had a real down time far as the entertainment values. Go watch some of the Nets/Pistons or Pacers/whoever series from the early 2000s....jesus. And the Spurs back then were great...but far from as entertaining as they would become.

If you mean better as in...which teams would win? The games are played so differently its hard to say.


Generally people talking up the past(as in...80s to late 90s) make more sense to me but thats because they saw both that time...and today. So many people hating on the 80s/90s didnt even see it...so naturally their hate is less reasonable. They just have less valid opinions on the subject. If ive seen then and now....and you have only seen now...im not caring what you think about the comparison of then vs now. You think anyone from the 50s gives a shit what I think about Guy Rodgers?


Its hard to separate emotions from such a thing..nostalgia is real but at times the past just did so some thing better. Frosted Flakes really were sweeter when I was a kid. They just were....

[KNOW1EDGE]

The talent nowadays is better than its ever been in human history, problem is all the rule changes and officiating has taken the physicality and the emotion out of the game. You can't touch anyone without a foul call and showing any emotion whatsoever gets you a technical foul.

[GIF REACTION]

The 90's was the steroid era

It was that pocket in history where anabolics and peptides/hormones came into mainstream sports and was widely used, before the public awareness and scrutiny that has since arrived.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The talent nowadays is better than its ever been in human history, problem is all the rule changes and officiating has taken the physicality and the emotion out of the game. You can't touch anyone without a foul call and showing any emotion whatsoever gets you a technical foul.

Agreed. Overall there's more talent, but the superstars then (mid 80s and early 90s) were better IMO.

LeBron and a healthy Durant along w/ a few others are the exception...but still.

[RidonKs]

if somebody asked this question in 1991, everybody be like NAAA it was actually better
if somebody asked this question in 1997, everybody be like y'all are just bein nostalgic
if somebody asked this question in 2003, everybody be like NAAA it was actually better
if somebody asked this question in 2009, everybody be like NAAA it was actually better
since somebody asked this question in 2015, everybody be like y'all are just bein nostalgic
when somebody asks this question in 2021, everybody be like y'all are just bein nostalgic
when somebody asks this question in 2027, everybody be like NAAA it was actually better

[ArbitraryWater]

Yeah, better has definitions... if we're talking top talent individually, 1990's win... but right now, the stars are sorted in a way that there's as many title contenders as never before.

LeBron/KD/Davis = all time top tier players IMO
then CP3/Dwight (00s+10s)/Curry/Russ/BG/Harden, all top 30-40 caliber

entertainment? :confusedshrug: so many definitions
level of ball? like Swish said, down from 99-07, picked up in 08...

competition? Best its ever been... (best conference/era ever perhaps), recovered from the thin level at the top from 2008-2010.

I mean, the parity was great in the 70's, but that was an all around weak era.

[DonDadda59]

The 90's was the steroid era

It was that pocket in history where anabolics and peptides/hormones came into mainstream sports and was widely used, before the public awareness and scrutiny that has since arrived.

Funny that the NBA never had a big steroid controversy like the NFL or obviously the MLB did. There's been a few guys popped here and there for HGH or even anabolic roids, but nothing widespread. There's no question that during the late 80s-early 00s, players started putting much more of an emphasis on building muscle as the game became more and more physical. You can see the difference in players physiques on tape/pictures. I have no doubt some or a lot of that was aided by steroids, HGH, etc.

Prime Suspects right here:

http://borntocompete.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/david-robinson.jpg

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1008/karl.malone.rare.photos/images/malone-bicep.jpg

http://getnetworth.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/ben-wallace-net-worth2.jpg

Some of the stars today could use some enhancement drugs. Frail ass nigguhs look like a soft wind could blow them away :lol

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/356/127/1-on-1-kevin-durant-1_display_image.jpg?1282555110

[GIF REACTION]

Funny that the NBA never had a big steroid controversy like the NFL or obviously the MLB did. There's been a few guys popped here and there for HGH or even anabolic roids, but nothing widespread. There's no question that during the late 80s-early 00s, players started putting much more of an emphasis on building muscle as the game became more and more physical. You can see the difference in players physiques on tape/pictures. I have no doubt some or a lot of that was aided by steroids, HGH, etc.

Prime Suspects right here:

http://borntocompete.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/david-robinson.jpg

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1008/karl.malone.rare.photos/images/malone-bicep.jpg

http://getnetworth.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/ben-wallace-net-worth2.jpg

Some of the stars today could use some enhancement drugs. Frail ass nigguhs look like a soft wind could blow them away :lol

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/356/127/1-on-1-kevin-durant-1_display_image.jpg?1282555110
definitely true

Players today are visibly smaller in muscle

[RidonKs]

Yeah, better has definitions... if we're talking top talent individually, 1990's win... but right now, the stars are sorted in a way that there's as many title contenders as never before.
there has been an entrance of a ton of talent these past few years

wiggins
towns
parker
embiied?
giannis
davis

i'm sure others will also emerge. as lebron and dwight and paul and alrdidge wind down their prime, we have the star point guards in irving and curry and wall taking the next step, not to mention leonard and cousins and westbrook griffin durant etc

the league is in excellent hands right now. and considering the down slump was kobe and duncan and garnett prime years, i don't think the nba is in bad shape in general lol

[ArbitraryWater]

there has been an entrance of a ton of talent these past few years

wiggins
towns
parker
embiied?
giannis
davis

i'm sure others will also emerge. as lebron and dwight and paul and alrdidge wind down their prime, we have the star point guards in irving and curry and wall taking the next step, not to mention leonard and cousins and westbrook griffin durant etc

the league is in excellent hands right now. and considering the down slump was kobe and duncan and garnett prime years, i don't think the nba is in bad shape in general lol

Its not, like I said, this decade has 9 players in the top 40 all time (future) that spent their prime here, and all the upcoming guys you just mentioned.. just all around strong.

[DonDadda59]

competition? Best its ever been... (best conference/era ever perhaps), recovered from the thin level at the top from 2008-2010.

:biggums:

There's never been a bigger discrepancy between the conferences since the merger.

http://www.sports-reference.com/blog/2013/12/historical-western-conference-vs-eastern-conference-disparity/

https://nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/image3.png

It's gotten to the point that the commissioner is thinking about effectively changing the playoff seeding process.

[RidonKs]

:biggums:

There's never been a bigger discrepancy between the conferences since the merger.

http://www.sports-reference.com/blog/2013/12/historical-western-conference-vs-eastern-conference-disparity/

https://nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/image3.png

It's gotten to the point that the commissioner is thinking about effectively changing the playoff seeding process.
right now as far as a viewing perspective, i don't mind seeing the best player in the league against the best team from the best conference year after year after year after year. and the way that best player's team is looking, this year is set up to be better than any other in recent history.

[ClipperRevival]

The talent nowadays is better than its ever been in human history, problem is all the rule changes and officiating has taken the physicality and the emotion out of the game. You can't touch anyone without a foul call and showing any emotion whatsoever gets you a technical foul.

My thoughts exactly. They have taken physicality and emotion out of the game, which I feel are part of the game. I miss the scuffles and rivalries built on trash talking and physicality. These guys are competing, you have to let them show some emotion and send some "sending a message" fouls once in a while.

[ClipperRevival]

In terms of the talent pool, I think it was incredibly strong starting around the mid 80's, when basketball really started to become popular and mainstream and by the late 80's, teams were already starting to scout for talent internationally. And after the Dream Team, the talent pool went fully global.

I have no idea how some can say the game was weak back in the late 80's/early 90's. Anyone who saids that probably never saw the game as it progressed to the present but were born after that time. So I don't think anyone can judge an era if you didn't live through it.

[HighFlyer23]

There is clearly a lack of the superstar player in today's league.

Lebron and Durant are the only two legit superstars. CP3 is a notch below and Harden and Curry are below CP3.

Its actually a transition period for the league as the late 90s and early 00s stars are either exiting their primes or on their way to retirement.

[TheMarkMadsen]

in the early to mid 2000's you had guys like 3 top GOAT players playing in their prime, plus you had 3 top 25 players playing in their primes

not to mention guys like Pierce, Webber, Nash, Kidd in their primes as well

[HighFlyer23]

in the early to mid 2000's you had guys like 3 top GOAT players playing in their prime, plus you had 3 top 25 players playing in their primes

not to mention guys like Pierce, Webber, Nash, Kidd in their primes as well

There were more big names and stars overall

Just compare the All Star roster's from 10 years ago in 2005 to today:

2005 All Stars:

West Roster:
Kobe Bryant
Tracy McGrady
Kevin Garnett
Tim Duncan
Yao Ming
Manu Ginobili
Amar'e Stoudemire
Ray Allen
Shawn Marion
Steve Nash
Dirk Nowitzki
Rashard Lewis

East Roster:
Allen Iverson
LeBron James
Vince Carter
Shaquille O'Neal
Grant Hill
Gilbert Arenas
Antawn Jamison
Dwyane Wade
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Jermaine O'Neal
Ben Wallace
Paul Pierce

vs.

2015 All Stars:

West Roster
James Harden
Klay Thompson
LaMarcus Aldridge
Russell Westbrook
Kevin Durant
Tim Duncan
Chris Paul
Stephen Curry
Kobe Bryant
Anthony Davis
Marc Gasol
Blake Griffin
DeMarcus Cousins
Damian Lillard
Dirk Nowitzki

East Roster:
LeBron James
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Pau Gasol
Carmelo Anthony
Al Horford
Jeff Teague
Paul Millsap
Jimmy Butler
Kyrie Irving
Chris Bosh
Dwyane Wade
Kyle Korver

[SHAQisGOAT]

This "era" is better than other "eras, imo, so...

Still, 80's = GOAT era, when considering everything.

[andgar923]

Players are better in 'some' aspects, and the game is better in others.

But the game and players 'overall' were better back then.

You can see it from time to time, such as players today not knowing shit that was basic back then. Blake Griffin is a perfect example of this.

Blake Griffin is more versatile and athletic than Malone.

Blake can cross you over, he can jump over you, he has great body control for a player his size, but isn't as good as Malone.

Malone didn't have Blake's athleticism, body control, and ball handling. But he was more effective, knew how to use his body, and was mos def tougher.

Same with PGs.

They might be bigger and more athletic than some previous pgs, but they lack patience, IQ, court vision, etc.etc.

And YES more players can shoot from far away, the 3pt shot is a bigger weapon. But the in between game is basically forgotten.

[miles berg]

The league used to be much stronger, especially in the 80s.

[And1AllDay]

Maybe it's in my head, but players today just seem faster and more athletic.

[ArbitraryWater]

in the early to mid 2000's you had guys like 3 top GOAT players playing in their prime, plus you had 3 top 25 players playing in their primes

not to mention guys like Pierce, Webber, Nash, Kidd in their primes as well

thats 2 top 40-50 players... right now we have better players in their prime in BG/Harden/Russ/Curry AMONGSIDE 2 top GOAT players (Bron/KD< in the future) which equals Shaq/Duncan, but there aren't any top 15-25 guys besides Davis to stop Kobe/Dirk/Wade/KG

[andgar923]

Maybe it's in my head, but players today just seem faster and more athletic.

The rules are part of it.

And even then, that doesn't make the league better, otherwise the Spurs wouldn't have any rings, Love wouldn't have any rebounding titles, and James White would be an MVP front runner every season.

[raprap]

2010's> 2000's for sure.

I started watching the NBA religiously in 1999, I can say that these past few years are the best ball I've watched ever.

[HighFlyer23]

2010's> 2000's for sure.

I started watching the NBA religiously in 1999, I can say that these past few years are the best ball I've watched ever.

lol

Star power is at a low

[Angel Face]

Players came in the league with better fundamentals due to spending more time in college.

[Lebron23]

Just F*cking Nostalgia. We have more talented point guards and perimeter players right now. The Center position will be much stronger if Jahlil Okafor and Karl towns live up to their hype.

[diamenz]

it was just different. anyone who tells you otherwise is just young and naive or old and set in their ways. depending upon the type of basketball you prefer, that's when it was/is better.

if you like high flying athletic open lanes and 3 point jacking, today's your game.

if you like high iq basketball with sexy sets that work the ball inside and solid interior play on both sides of the court, pastime bbal if 4 u.

i think it's pretty obvioud where i stand, but ain't it the truth?

[raprap]

lol

Star power is at a low
Maybe, but that doesn't change the fact that team basketball has never been this good maybe since the 80's. Team defense is at its best too even tho the pace has picked up.

[jstern]

You really can't compare both eras, because the game hasn't evolved, but rather it was made different by the rule changes.

I remember last years playoffs the NBA set a new record for 4 point plays. And why? Because of more new rules that made it that much harder for the defender.

It's like a video game, you can set the difficulty to easy setting, where you would just shoot 3 pointers or dunk, because you're not being challenged. Or you can set the difficulty to its hardest setting, and be forced to create plays to score.

This is not a dis on the players, since it's not their fault.

[kshutts1]

A few people have mentioned my points, but whatever.. a forum is a place for everyone to mention their opinions, right? :lol

I don't miss the "goonish" actions, or the fights.

But I do think that the PC era has gone a little bit too far; I miss the trash talk, the toughness, the "street ball" aspects.

When AI steps over Tyronn Lue, that's "alpha", "nasty", etc.
If Lebron did that to Gordon Hayward, PTI and SportsNation, etc, would be up in arms about how disrespectful he was, how he should apologize.. then Lebron (or any other star player in question) would run to Twitter to apologize and be like "yo man, we're friends. We're bros".

Is it disrespectful? Of course. But it's part of the game. Don't play if you can't handle it.

Essentially.. there's minimal good "theater".

[305Baller]

Its impossible to really tell. Nostalgia plays a huge part.

60s- end of the golden era. High skills with average athleticism. Guys that were very athletic could dominate with decent skills.

70s - athletic infusion. Skills were at a high level since skills were all there was for the league beforehand.

80's - peak of skills before the obsession with athleticism that led to strong streetball but weak elite talent.

90's - worst era in modern times. Uncreative offense because of bad skill levels and trends in slower defensive games. Jordan's 80s influence put him over the top.

00's - with Jordan gone, the league had to open it up for less skilled players to flourish. Luckily, new players with skills came in at the same time.

10's - Shooting is back and the league has a lot of skilled players but its perimeter based and not at the 80s level. Fast-tempo is flourishing but now the inside game is suffering and some think the center position is dead. Also lack of inside game and spoiled rich players are bringing a whitecollar primadonna attitude to the game.

[G0ATbe]

The league is stronger than it's ever been. Thing is all the talents jam packed in 1 conference instead of spread out. That's why we'll never see a team like the Heat or 90s Bulls out West making back to back to back to back finals runs like its nothing.

[DonDadda59]

The league is stronger than it's ever been. Thing is all the talents jam packed in 1 conference instead of spread out. That's why we'll never see a team like the Heat or 90s Bulls out West making back to back to back to back finals runs like its nothing.

But the Heat just went to 4 straight finals and Bron personally made 5 straight trips. The NBA is not just one conference.

The disparity between the conferences is at its worst since the merger back in the 70s, the center position is at its weakest point since the 60s, and the league has turned players into soul-less automaton KIA salesmen.

[poido123]

Feel sorry for those who didn't grow up through the 90s era.


Lol at those who think today's era is better :lol


More trash talk, fights/scuffles, better Dunkers, more fundamentally skilled, and more entertaining playoffs with more polarising stars.

90s >>>>> all eras. Perhaps 80s rivals it but I was too young for half that era.

[StephHamann]

The NBA should just cut the eastern conference, everybody would say this is the GOAT era if only the 15 west teams would play.

[HurricaneKid]

I've been jonesing for ball and have been watching pretty much all the "classic" games on NBATv. These are historic games and they still look AWFUL compared to normal games of today.

I don't think the game has ever been better. Partly the rules have opened up the game. Partly massive amounts of money have come into the game and made the rewards for play out of this world (Dr J never made 1.5M/). The best trainers, physicians, coaches are all in the mix now when they wouldn't have been 20 years ago, etc.

[oh the horror]

But the Heat just went to 4 straight finals and Bron personally made 5 straight trips. The NBA is not just one conference.

The disparity between the conferences is at its worst since the merger back in the 70s, the center position is at its weakest point since the 60s, and the league has turned players into soul-less automaton KIA salesmen.




Not to mention unless I'm hallucinating we all saw some of the fu*king worst basketball in a long time during these past playoffs.


People are mistaking athleticism, individual talent for "better basketball".


You've got guards right now (and a good amount) that cannot make a midrange jump shot. What seems like too many that cannot shoot free throws. And footwork is becoming scarce.


I don't know if it's because kids are coming in too young or what but it's showing.

[smoovegittar]

I enjoy it just as much now. It evolves; you can't go back.

[305Baller]

Not to mention unless I'm hallucinating we all saw some of the fu*king worst basketball in a long time during these past playoffs.


People are mistaking athleticism, individual talent for "better basketball".


You've got guards right now (and a good amount) that cannot make a midrange jump shot. What seems like too many that cannot shoot free throws. And footwork is becoming scarce.


I don't know if it's because kids are coming in too young or what but it's showing.

A ton of players shoot 3s more consistently than midrange .Forget contested shots

You are right. Shitty playoffs.

[DonDadda59]

I don't know if it's because kids are coming in too young or what but it's showing.

Definitely a big part of it. Back in the day, guys who were drafted were expected to be finished products or close to it coming out of 3-4 years in College. NBA coaches really don't have the time or patience to teach guys how to play basketball. Players nowadays who are one and dones are drafted mainly on potential, not on what they have proven they can do by draft night. So it's a really mixed bag.

For guys to get drafted that young before, they had to be transcendent, once in a generation/lifetime players. Kobe was the first guard drafted out of high school (was highly touted but only drafted 13th) and KG (5th pick) was the first HS player drafted since Moses Malone. Both guys had to go through serious growing pains their first few seasons.

After those guys panned out (along with the likes of T-Mac), teams started going overboard with drafting straight out of HS and we ended up with guys like Kwame Brown, Sebastian Telfair, DaJuan Wagner being drafted high without even playing against D-3 level talent... then of course the league needed to find somewhere to put all the potential projects and busts that were not NBA ready, hence the birth of the D-League.

[ArbitraryWater]

Its impossible to really tell. Nostalgia plays a huge part.

60s- end of the golden era. High skills with average athleticism. Guys that were very athletic could dominate with decent skills.

70s - athletic infusion. Skills were at a high level since skills were all there was for the league beforehand.

80's - peak of skills before the obsession with athleticism that led to strong streetball but weak elite talent.

90's - worst era in modern times. Uncreative offense because of bad skill levels and trends in slower defensive games. Jordan's 80s influence put him over the top.

00's - with Jordan gone, the league had to open it up for less skilled players to flourish. Luckily, new players with skills came in at the same time.

10's - Shooting is back and the league has a lot of skilled players but its perimeter based and not at the 80s level. Fast-tempo is flourishing but now the inside game is suffering and some think the center position is dead. Also lack of inside game and spoiled rich players are bringing a whitecollar primadonna attitude to the game.

this is a different look at it..