The lesser known aspects of all time great players games.

[Kblaze8855]

Its Sunday...the off season...and I have nothing to do for some time. So...im gonna make and post bandwidth eating old computer slowing gifs of things I feel show some of the less celebrated aspects of some all time greats. Feel free to join in in gif or other less time consuming forms....

First...

Magic Johnsons scoring.


We all know about the hooks:

http://fat.gfycat.com/LastNastyBirdofparadise.gif


Hopefully we all know how agile and quick he was for his size....


http://giant.gfycat.com/PalatableIllGalapagostortoise.gif


And even when he got older and didnt move as quickly you still couldnt just take the ball as one might assume....

http://giant.gfycat.com/FatalInfantileHaddock.gif


But magic had a good bit of "Give him the ball and get the **** out of the way" in him when he needed it....

http://giant.gfycat.com/FlakyThankfulEuropeanfiresalamander.gif

^
Game winner. He had 34/18/12 that game.



He could score on broken plays and in desperate situations a lot better than I think hes given credit for.

The only reason Magic wasnt a 25+ a game scorer is choosing to drop off 3 layups a game to his teammates because he was unselfish and knew that guys will run hard every play if you reward them. And you cant leave a guy hanging when hes running the way those guys did. Magic will always be seen as the best passer but people dont credit him as I feel they should as a scorer.

He was arguably(note the "arguably") the best inside scoring guard of all time. Yes...considering his size he should be. But considering Shaqs size he should have been unguardable one on one. We still give him credit for being it though.

Magic had an unusual looking game...but he could score in the post with both hands...and finish on the drive with both hands. He could shoot a nice set shot...and he finished in traffic and made his FTs. He shot over 90% from the line a couple seasons. Unrelated but...anyone else surprised Magic shoots better from the line than Kobe(and Jordan for that matter)? Kobe feels like someone who should shoot 88-90% most years.

Anyway....ever hear the story of Magic calling his dad before that game 6 as a rookie where he filled in for Kareem and dropped 40? He told him he was taking it back to HS...and he was gonna score a lot.

I suspect Magic could have done such things whenever he wanted. He was too good on the run and the 80s west gave him too many chances to do it. Magic probably could have dropped 60 on the Kings or Nuggets at will.

[STATUTORY]

Kobe is actually a great passer, most assists at the shooting guard position. But it goes beyond the stats, he wasn't someone who was gonna drive in and kick out for the generic cheesy assist but he had the ability to make truly imaginative passes and a great court vision. A true maestro of the court. doesn't get talked about as much.

[RRR3]

LeBron: Scoring.


Unlike Magic, though, LeBron does score at an all-time great rate, but you'd never think he did given the way people talk about him.

[Kblaze8855]

I assumed Kobes Passing, Birds athletic ability, and Jordans *insert whatever someone pretends people dont know about Jordan* would come up rather quickly. And thats all well and good. But for now im gonna stick with some I rarely if ever see come up. Like Charles Barkleys suprising shot blocking...he didnt block that many...but he had some of the most spectacular blocks of all time....and nobody mentions it. I may go into that later...


And Duncans early career athletic ability:

http://giant.gfycat.com/KeenWigglyArcticfox.gif

[BuffaloBill]

Duncan's outlet. Countless easy buckets, notice the curve on the ball



http://cdn0.sbnation.com/assets/3809207/tduncanpass.gif

http://i.minus.com/ioLc0vdLjmF4N.gif

http://i.imgbox.com/7gszOdJA.gif

http://giant.gfycat.com/LateRingedAmericanwirehair.gif

[GIF REACTION]

Chris Webber's defense

[SamuraiSWISH]

For Barkley I was actually going to say his surprising and often forgot about three point shooting ability. People usually just think of him as a low block scorer but he had a long ball as well as decent handle for his position type.

Because of his ability to shoot the 3, I think he had like 56 in 3 quarters in a playoff game on Webber's Warriors. It's a forgotten abilities for Barkley because he was an odd SG - SF - PF combo hybrid.

And yes, Kobe and MJs passing ability is severely underrated.

Pippen and Penny's post up games are lesser known as well.

Or when people say Iverson had the ball in his hands a lot. He actually was a very good off the ball player with a tremendous motor who was always going and moving. Much like Rip, Reggie or Ray. Decent catch and shoot player too. He was just really undersized for his position of SG.

Bird's early career athletic ability and defensive capabilities are slept on aspects to his arsenal.

[LAZERUSS]

Magic could easily have been a 30 ppg scorer. That was proven in his very first year, and in the clinching game six of the Finals.

Later on in his career, he would put together strings of games in which he would routinely hang 30+ point games (and right in the middle of them, he would have a 4 point game on a couple of shots.) In the '90 playoffs, when his team was down 2-1 to the Suns, and no one else was doing anything, he hung back-to-back games of 43 points.

BTW, an interesting side-note... In his long rivalry with Larry Bird, guess which player had the highest scoring H2H game? Yep...Magic, and he had the TWO highest, with games of 39 and 37 points.

[Kblaze8855]

Good call on the Duncan outlet passing. Marc Gasol does a lot of that too:


http://giant.gfycat.com/AcrobaticSadBustard.gif


This one ive had stashed in a folder for a few years and never got around to using:





http://giant.gfycat.com/GeneralLividAmericancrayfish.gif

[Kblaze8855]

Anyone wondering about the Barkley blocks...I meant things like this:



http://giant.gfycat.com/WelllitConstantIndri.gif


Not many could just go bully young Hakeem with the full extension like that.

[sdot_thadon]

Lots of people forget Charles was only like 6'3 in reality cause he played so big. I always loved the one man fastbreaks.

[Indian guy]

Pippen's athleticism in 1992. Everybody recognizes Pip as a great athlete, but nobody really considers him Tier 1. But having been binge-watching a lot of '92 Bulls games recently, not only is he a superior athlete than MJ that season, but the only SF I would dare consider better than that version of Pip is peak LeBron. Physically, everything just came together for him that year(like 2003 for Kobe). Just check out this alley oop (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXojqG67C0Y&t=6m25s) from that season. And he was making freak plays like that in every single game. His motor was relentless.

[Kblaze8855]

not only is he a superior athlete than MJ that season

I dont think thats how it works...

[Indian guy]

I dont think thats how it works...

I know what you mean, but '92 Pippen IS a better athlete than '92 MJ, who was still a great athlete.

[tpols]

KG's vicious dunking ability.. everyone paints him as a soft midrange shooter when twolve beast mode KG could light you up if given the chance.

https://33.media.tumblr.com/029c51a3bc1332d7083feb6d3aa8a2eb/tumblr_nrubmoMI5I1s3gys4o1_400.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/f9c8e5b2d898ddf3db461c4f077f69ea/tumblr_nr8loxZqWB1s3gys4o1_400.gif

http://media.giphy.com/media/N61zrUGKaCEOk/giphy.gif

[SamuraiSWISH]

I know what you mean, but '92 Pippen IS a better athlete than '92 MJ, who was still a great athlete.
No. Just because after '90 Jordan was calming down and playing a more cerebral, skillful and refined basketball game doesn't mean his athletic ability was superceded by Scottie. Jordan was still the superior leaper, motor, body control, speed, quickness, hand eye coordination, etc. I could come up with athletic highlights from Jordan that season just as impressive or more than that play from Pippen.

[Indian guy]

Jordan was still the superior leaper
I disagree., motor, body control, speed, quickness, hand eye coordination, etc.


First step and body control, I'll give MJ. But as far as overall raw athletic ability is concerned - speed, leaping ability of either feet, explosiveness and consistency in employing those attributes, Pippen was a bigger freak than MJ in '92. His explosiveness is what sticks out. MJ wasn't that explosive come '92.


I could come up with athletic highlights from Jordan that season just as impressive or more than that play from Pippen.

Go ahead. I have a lot more of Pippen's.

[sdot_thadon]

First step and body control, I'll give MJ. But as far as overall raw athletic ability is concerned - speed, leaping ability of either feet, explosiveness and consistency in employing those attributes, Pippen was a bigger freak than MJ in '92. His explosiveness is what sticks out. MJ wasn't that explosive come '92.



Go ahead. I have a lot more of Pippen's.
Pip was a freak on the low.:oldlol:

How about olajuwon's ball handling as a bigman......or even Shaq's?

[ShawkFactory]

Pip was a freak on the low.:oldlol:

How about olajuwon's ball handling as a bigman......or even Shaq's?
I think Olajuwons skills in general (footwork, handles, etc) are pretty celebrated

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Jordan's 3PT shooting.

After he really developed one post 1988, he basically shot the same percentage/higher than Kobe.

He's also the better playoff 3PT shooter (statistically).

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

but '92 Pippen IS a better athlete than '92 MJ.

No he wasn't.

[DonDadda59]

Duncan's outlet. Countless easy buckets, notice the curve on the ball

:applause:

Timmy's outlets are one of the biggest contributors to SA's change from a half-court to a more uptempo, faster paced offense.

I'd say perimeter players with billion dollar hands. Very rare for wing guys to have hands like bigs. Guys like Jordan, Dr. J, VC could palm a basketball like it was a grapefruit. That gave them ball control that the vast majority of wings could never dream of.

Also, young Ray Allen's athletic ability. Most people think of him as a purely finesse, jump-shooting player but when he first entered the league it wasn't a rare occurrence to see him mash it on people (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsldLWUpDRc).

[T_L_P]

Good call on Duncan, Kblaze.

Before he tore his meniscus in 00, he was an explosive athlete. He pretty much had his way with anyone in the post.

[Young X]

Wade's clutch defense. Might not be the most clutch on offense especially with FT's but he just has a knack for coming up with huge steals/blocks/deflections late in games.

[rmt]

Duncan's outlet. Countless easy buckets, notice the curve on the ball

http://giant.gfycat.com/LateRingedAmericanwirehair.gif

Bonner: "Shoot, how'd he get all the way down there so quickly?":roll:

[Pointguard]

KG's vicious dunking ability.. everyone paints him as a soft midrange shooter when twolve beast mode KG could light you up if given the chance.

https://33.media.tumblr.com/029c51a3bc1332d7083feb6d3aa8a2eb/tumblr_nrubmoMI5I1s3gys4o1_400.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/f9c8e5b2d898ddf3db461c4f077f69ea/tumblr_nr8loxZqWB1s3gys4o1_400.gif

http://media.giphy.com/media/N61zrUGKaCEOk/giphy.gif
This video is his deep post game with a ton of dunks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VQVYrtnYzs

[TripleA]

Dwyane wade off ball game.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Jordan's 3PT shooting.

After he really developed one post 1988, he basically shot the same percentage/higher than Kobe.

He's also the better playoff 3PT shooter (statistically).

what the hell are you talking about :oldlol:

Kobe shoots a higher % while taking more than twice as many 3's per game for their career

and this is taking into account that Jordan played 3 years with a shortened 3 point line..

and in the playoffs they shoot the same % while again Kobe attempts twice as many per game and Jordan benefits from a shorter 3pt line

:confusedshrug:

[SamuraiSWISH]

His explosiveness is what sticks out. MJ wasn't that explosive come '92.
No ...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_CE2hU-OaIo

Jordan was just playing a more reserved game by this point. He still was the superior athlete. Much quicker, faster, stronger upper body, body dexterity / control, lateral movement and explosion. Off the dribble or off hop steps. Superior leaper off one or two feet.

Good call from Young X on Wade's clutch defense, and kuniva on MJ's much improved 3 point shooting post '89 / '90.

Kobe shoots a much higher volume of those shots and is better when factoring range. But it also works to his detriment and at face value Jordan was as good and a better 3 point shooter in the playoffs.

[J Shuttlesworth]

LeBron's catch and shoot ability.. well at least it was really strong from 2012-14. Not sure how good he was this year in the RS

[Nash]

Blake Griffins handles.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Always thought Sheed was an underrated dunker. Not really overlooked, but I think he's a legit top 10 big dunker in NBA history. Maybe higher... Don't really have a list. Even his normal two handed under the rim is gorgeous and he has some absurd lob catches and putback dunks. Kemp and Griffin level shit.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Good stuff :applause:


Imo, Larry Bird is the GOAT outlet-passer, yet it's not mentioned often enough along his best traits...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTI-Cmkp87A

[ArbitraryWater]

First step and body control, I'll give MJ. But as far as overall raw athletic ability is concerned - speed, leaping ability of either feet, explosiveness and consistency in employing those attributes, Pippen was a bigger freak than MJ in '92. His explosiveness is what sticks out. MJ wasn't that explosive come '92.



Go ahead. I have a lot more of Pippen's.

want..

[sdot_thadon]

I think Olajuwons skills in general (footwork, handles, etc) are pretty celebrated
Not what I'm referring to. He had the ability to size up and get by guys in an iso like a guard from away from the basket. It wasn't exactly a go to move but something he showed now and again.

[ClipperRevival]

Not what I'm referring to. He had the ability to size up and get by guys in an iso like a guard from away from the basket. It wasn't exactly a go to move but something he showed now and again.

Absolutely. Few centers have ever been able to face you up from 15-18 and take his man off the dribble like a guard. Some people underestimate just how complete Hakeem's offensive game was. He had no weaknesses. It wasn't just the post moves, it was also his ability to hit the 15-18 footer facing you up, via the turnaround or pulling up like a guard off the dribble.

[ClipperRevival]

Magic's offensive game was definitely potent late in his career. He had the ability to take over games offensively when the team needed it. If he was selfish, he could've easily put up around 28 ppg.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Magic's offensive game was definitely potent late in his career. He had the ability to take over games offensively when the team needed it. If he was selfish, he could've easily put up around 28 ppg.

in your opinion could he have won at a high level while putting up 28 ppg

[warriorfan]

I think Magic had an underrated scoring game as well but it's hard to say that a player would do something consistently over a long period of time just because they gave you a few glimpses of it.

[ClipperRevival]

in your opinion could he have won at a high level while putting up 28 ppg

No way to know for sure because scoring more means exerting more energy. I think he could've been a little more selfish and been a 25 ppg guy without sacrificing much but that's not who he was. He wanted to get others involved. So in the end, who was who he was. But he definitely had the talent to score a lot more points.

[ClipperRevival]

Duncan was never explosive but he had truly rare traits for a near 7 footer. Light feet (huge prerequisite for great bigs), fluidity in his movements (no wasted motion) and great hand/eye coordination. In that regard, he was a special athlete for a big.

[ClipperRevival]

I think Magic had an underrated scoring game as well but it's hard to say that a player would do something consistently over a long period of time just because they gave you a few glimpses of it.

Kind of true but Magic gave more than glimpses. His high of 23.9 ppg in 1987 is proof of this. He never attempted more than 16.4 shots per game in a season. Meanwhile, Bird's high in attempts per season was 22.0. So Magic always played within the team concept even when he was giving you 23.9 or 22+ ppg.

[Kobe_6/8]

Iverson's interview skills

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

what the hell are you talking about :oldlol:

Kobe shoots a higher % while taking more than twice as many 3's per game for their career

and this is taking into account that Jordan played 3 years with a shortened 3 point line..

and in the playoffs they shoot the same % while again Kobe attempts twice as many per game and Jordan benefits from a shorter 3pt line

:confusedshrug:

Am I speaking in tongues here? :oldlol:

Kobe doesn't shoot a higher percentage. Jordan averages a higher career 3PT percentage in the playoffs ALONG with 3x straight playoff runs of .386%, .385%, and .389% shooting. These were consecutive BTW, during his peak (1991-93), and w/ the regularized 3PT line. Kobe NEVER had sustained shooting like that.

Bean probably has more range, but if we're just talking about 3PT shooting, they're in the same ball park.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

No ...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_CE2hU-OaIo

Jordan was just playing a more reserved game by this point. He still was the superior athlete. Much quicker, faster, stronger upper body, body dexterity / control, lateral movement and explosion. Off the dribble or off hop steps. Superior leaper off one or two feet.

Good call from Young X on Wade's clutch defense, and kuniva on MJ's much improved 3 point shooting post '89 / '90.

Kobe shoots a much higher volume of those shots and is better when factoring range. But it also works to his detriment and at face value Jordan was as good and a better 3 point shooter in the playoffs.

Nice video. These more or less describe what you're talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsREnYw6Afg#t=4m30s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mUtNiW0IVQ#t=5m15s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVTbfTcsQDM#t=7m05s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWrfxut6FJM#t=2m57s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWrfxut6FJM#t=4m49s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fswKeVJyewA#t=4m31s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btcr031tD4Y#t=0m30s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btcr031tD4Y#t=1m14s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0koFShSRAVY#t=3m51

His fluid movement and dexterity around the basket...UNREAL control mid-flight. Pippen could only dream of finishing like that (his long strides often made him look [deceptively] more explosive).

[TheMarkMadsen]

Am I speaking in tongues here? :oldlol:

Kobe doesn't shoot a higher percentage. Jordan averages a higher career 3PT percentage in the playoffs ALONG with 3x straight playoff runs of .386%, .385%, and .389% shooting. These were consecutive BTW, during his peak (1991-93), and w/ the regularized 3PT line. Kobe NEVER had sustained shooting like that.

Bean probably has more range, but if we're just talking about 3PT shooting, they're in the same ball park.

career 3pt %

Kobe = 33.

[TripleA]

Kobe's leadership:applause:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

career 3pt %

Kobe = 33.

I was referring to postseason play, but rounded they're BOTH at ~33% in the regular-season; ergo, the same ball park.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Am I speaking in tongues here? :oldlol:

Kobe doesn't shoot a higher percentage. Jordan averages a higher career 3PT percentage in the playoffs ALONG with 3x straight playoff runs of .386%, .385%, and .389% shooting. These were consecutive BTW, during his peak (1991-93), and w/ the regularized 3PT line. Kobe NEVER had sustained shooting like that.

Bean probably has more range, but if we're just talking about 3PT shooting, they're in the same ball park.



Kobe doesn't shoot a higher percentage.
career 3pt %

Kobe = 33

Jordan = 32



Jordan averages a higher career 3PT percentage in the playoffs

career playoff 3pt %

Kobe = 33%

Jordan = 33%

Kobe took twice as many 3's per game as Jordan yet still shot the same percentage..

and this is with Jordan benefitting from a shorter 3pt line that he played with for 4 years in the playoffs..

again, wtf are you talking about

[TheMarkMadsen]

I was referring to postseason play, but rounded they're BOTH at ~33% in the regular-season; ergo, the same ball park.

lol that accidentally got posted before I could finish my post

and yeah they have the same percentage.. with Kobe taking TWICE AS MANY THREES per game...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

lol that accidentally got posted before I could finish my post

and yeah they have the same percentage.. with Kobe taking TWICE AS MANY THREES per game...

Show me a 2-3 year run PLAYOFF stretch, where Kobe shot as well from 3PT as Mike did. On substantial attempts.

:confusedshrug:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Show me a 2-3 year run PLAYOFF stretch, where Kobe shot as well from 3PT as Mike did. On substantial attempts.

:confusedshrug:


you ask for substantial attempts yet refuse to acknowledge that Kobe was taking substantially more attempts per game than Jordan while shooting the same percentage.. and this includes when Jordan had the advantage of playing with a shortened 3pt line

you only put that "substantial attempts" part because YOU KNOW that when shooting at a higher volume its harder to maintain a higher percanteage.. yet you'll continue to ignore the fact that Jordan shot substantially less 3's than Kobe per game in the playoffs, in the regular season and still couldn't shoot a higher percentage for his career even while playing 4 years with a shortened 3pt line

:oldlol: :oldlol:



show me a year where Jordan attempted was able to attempt 6 threes per game while shooting 37%.. he couldn't maintain that type of efficiency on that type of volume in the playoffs even with the shortened 3pt line and thats just a fact..

don't know what else to tell you..

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

you ask for substantial attempts yet refuse to acknowledge that Kobe was taking substantially more attempts per game than Jordan while shooting the same percentage.. and this includes when Jordan had the advantage of playing with a shortened 3pt line

you only put that "substantial attempts" part because YOU KNOW that when shooting at a higher volume its harder to maintain a higher percanteage.. yet you'll continue to ignore the fact that Jordan shot substantially less 3's than Kobe per game in the playoffs, in the regular season and still couldn't shoot a higher percentage for his career even while playing 4 years with a shortened 3pt line

:oldlol: :oldlol:

show me a year where Jordan attempted was able to attempt 6 threes per game while shooting 37%.. he couldn't maintain that type of efficiency on that type of volume in the playoffs even with the shortened 3pt line and thats just a fact..

I'm not "refusing" to acknowledge it. If anything you're ignoring the fact Jordan was a better 3PT shooter at his absolute best (regularized 3PT line), on a significant amount of attempts.

In 1993, he basically averaged four 3's a game *laughs* For someone with a career 33% from 3PT, Kobe chucking up ~6 attempts from there just exposes his terrible shot selection :oldlol:

[TheMarkMadsen]

I'm not "refusing" to acknowledge it. If anything you're ignoring the fact Jordan was a better 3PT shooter at his absolute best, on a significant amount of attempts.

In 1993, he basically averaged four 3's a game *laughs* For someone with a career 33% from 3PT range, Kobe chucking up ~6 attempts from there just exposes his terrible shot selection :oldlol:


yes you are you are refusing to acknowledge that Jordan's career %'s benefit greatly from playing 4 years with a shortened 3pt line and are you refusing to acknowledge that Kobe shot twice as many 3's per game for his career...

Kobe shot 38% from 3 during the 2010 playoffs, Jordan's absolute best was 39% while attempting 4 threes per game :rolleyes:

during that years playoffs Jordan made 1.5 three's per game in the playoffs yet during the 2010 playoffs Kobe made 2+ three's per game.. how exactly does that make Jordan better at 3pt shooting :oldlol:

you can't deny that Kobe shot twice as many three's for his career as Jordan did while shooting the exact same percentage..

you can't deny that Kobe made more three's per game in the playoffs on average than Jordan

you can't deny that Jordan's %'s benefit from playing with a shortened 3pt line

you can't deny that Kobe shot the same % for the playoffs, and a better % for the regular season while taking twice as many three's per game for his career

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I'm simply saying peak Jordan, statistically, was roughly as good/better than Kobe from 3PT range. Your panties are in a bunch for no reason. :oldlol:

[eliteballer]

I'm simply saying peak Jordan, statistically, was roughly as good/better than Kobe from 3PT range. Your panties are in a bunch for no reason. :oldlol:

Hey ISHiot, Jordan's numbers are inflated by the short 3 point line.

He's a career 29% shooter with the real line:roll: