How underrated is Kevin Johnson?

[CJ Mustard]

This dude had a 3 season stretch averaging 22/11/4/2 on 51% shooting as a point guard. Was arguably the Suns best player in the '94 and 95 Playoffs WITH prime Barkley on the team. Averaged 27/10/4 on 46% in the '94 Playoffs, and 25/9/4 on 57% in the '95 Playoffs.

He never gets brought up amongst the great players of the 90's, but he was consistently putting up ridiculous numbers.

[Lebron23]

Very underrated. He's gonna be a superstar if he plays in today's NBA.

[inclinerator]

extremely overrated

[Rocketswin2013]

extremely overrated
Pretty much. Literally everyone thinks he's underrated so they collectively overrate him by overcompensating for some perceived underrated-ness. People bring him up in discussions about 1993 and talk as if the guy was Chris Paul. Absolute garbage that entire postseason and was just a good NBA player in the regular season of that year.

[warriorfan]

Pretty much. Literally everyone thinks he's underrated so they collectively overrate him by overcompensating for some perceived underrated-ness. People bring him up in discussions about 1993 and talk as if the guy was Chris Paul. Absolute garbage that entire postseason and was just a good NBA player in the regular season of that year.


For one I don't think I have heard one person ever say Kevin Johnson was as good as Chris Paul.

For two it's pretty absurd that you pick 1993 to bring up, which was the worst year of his career (and it was because he was battling injuries the entire season!)

[T_L_P]

If we're talking about underrated 90s guards, Terry Porter is the first that comes to mind.

He outplayed Stockton, Hardaway and KJ in the Playoffs and nobody seems to know him. He was Portland's best half-court player, leader, and clutch man while next to Clyde Drexler.

[chocolatethunder]

I'm not a huge KJ fan. I liked the teams but I wasn't that into him. He was a whiny brat who was magically healthy once Westphal was fired. He was a prick then and he's a prick now. If anyone has followed his political career you can see that he's crooked and self serving. I am a democrat btw but I am also a realist.

[CJ Mustard]

Pretty much. Literally everyone thinks he's underrated so they collectively overrate him by overcompensating for some perceived underrated-ness. People bring him up in discussions about 1993 and talk as if the guy was Chris Paul. Absolute garbage that entire postseason and was just a good NBA player in the regular season of that year.
Where the **** did I bring up '93? I deliberately left that year out because he obviously choked. That's all anyone seems to remember though.

[CJ Mustard]

If we're talking about underrated 90s guards, Terry Porter is the first that comes to mind.

He outplayed Stockton, Hardaway and KJ in the Playoffs and nobody seems to know him. He was Portland's best half-court player, leader, and clutch man while next to Clyde Drexler.
Uh...no. Porter never had a Playoff run CLOSE to either of the KJ Playoff runs I brought up. KJ's numbers were on par or better than Stockton's and Payton's during that stretch.

[TheMarkMadsen]

If we're talking about underrated 90s guards, Terry Porter is the first that comes to mind.

He outplayed Stockton, Hardaway and KJ in the Playoffs and nobody seems to know him. He was Portland's best half-court player, leader, and clutch man while next to Clyde Drexler.


:facepalm :facepalm

[And1AllDay]

-Never scored over 25 ppg (Hell, never scored over 23 ppg either)
-Had only a 3-season peak
-Went to the Finals once (lost)

I mean, he is right about where he should be. Where do you think he should be ranked, after reading the three points I made?

[CJ Mustard]

-Never scored over 25 ppg (Hell, never scored over 23 ppg either)
-Had only a 3-season peak
-Went to the Finals once (lost)

I mean, he is right about where he should be. Where do you think he should be ranked, after reading the three points I made?
- Uh...do you know how many all time greats never averaged 25ppg? He's a point guard. He was getting you 20+ points and 10+ assits in his prime on very good shooting percentages. That's about as good as it gets at that position.

- He averaged 20/10/3/2 on 50% between '89 and 97'. I just posted his peak seasons. Most players are at their peak for a short period of time.

- Again, how many great players are ringless? Do you think I'm arguing him as a top 10-20 player or something?

- Right where he should be? You mean never mentioned? I disagree. I think he's deserving of some recognition for playing as well as he did in a tough era.

[Pointguard]

I think he gets overrated because he was on an offensive machine and he was a bit more prolific because of that - Tom Chambers averaged his career high 27ppg on one of KJ best years. Also a couple of people here who did not see him play keep comparing him athletically to AI, Rose and Westbrook which I think is absurd. While he was before those guys when I saw him play in his second year, its not like I said wow, what an athlete like I did when I saw Rose and AI. He certainly could have a moment once a month where he looked liked Westbrook but not much more than AI did. And he certainly was slower than AI.

[HylianNightmare]

Found his shoes at bealls for 19.99, couldn't pass that up

[nzahir]

Numbers went down when Charles came. Good pg though. Some people overrate him and some underrate him

[And1AllDay]

- Uh...do you know how many all time greats never averaged 25ppg? He's a point guard. He was getting you 20+ points and 10+ assits in his prime on very good shooting percentages. That's about as good as it gets at that position.

- He averaged 20/10/3/2 on 50% between '89 and 97'. I just posted his peak seasons. Most players are at their peak for a short period of time.

- Again, how many great players are ringless? Do you think I'm arguing him as a top 10-20 player or something?

- Right where he should be? You mean never mentioned? I disagree. I think he's deserving of some recognition for playing as well as he did in a tough era.

He is normally in the top 100 lists, I usually see him around 75-85 ish? Isn't that right about where he should be...? Where would you rank him? It's not like people say he is trash, he was a good player.

[warriorfan]

Kevin Johnson 12 year career stats of 18/9/3/1.5 on 58% TS

Peeked at age 24 with 22 pts / 10 ast / 3.5 rebounds / 2 steals on 51% FG, 60% TS

John Wall at age 24 - 17.6 pts / 10 ast / 4.6 rebounds / 1.7 steals on 45% FG, 52% TS

Chris Paul at age 24 - 19.7 pts / 10.7 ast / 4.2 rebounds / 2 steals on 49% FG, 60% TS

Chris Paul 10 year career stats 18.7/ 10 ast / 4.4 rebounds / 2.3 steals



Kevin Johnson was a borderline superstar. He was closer to Chris Paul than he was John Wall.

[JtotheIzzo]

KJ was a good little man, but he is extremely overrated for a few things. Mostly that the WC in the 90s was extremely high scoring and devoid of defense so the PG numbers are all inflated from that era (look at Mark Jackson in Denver, compared with the rest of his career). Also, people remember that dunk KJ had over Hakeem and the fact that the Suns went to the Finals.

Not spectacular for that era.

[ClipperRevival]

KJ was one of the most explosive athletes ever at the PG position. Not quite Rose/Westbrook but not far behind. One of the quickest first steps ever and could get to the rack at will at his peak. His career was a classic example of his play droping off considerably once he lost a step but if he was putting up 22/12 in the more physical and hand check era, he would've done better in today's era. If we are talking peak, I would take a handful of guys over him before I go with him. He's ranked right around guys like T. Hardaway or M. Price peak wise.

[bizil]

KJ was one of the most explosive athletes ever at the PG position. Not quite Rose/Westbrook but not far behind. One of the quickest first steps ever and could get to the rack at will at his peak. His career was a classic example of his play droping off considerably once he lost a step but if he was putting up 22/12 in the more physical and hand check era, he would've done better in today's era. If we are talking peak, I would take a handful of guys over him before I go with him. He's ranked right around guys like T. Hardaway or M. Price peak wise.

I agree! At that time, I can't recall a MORE EXPLOSIVE PG at that size. His dunk on a PEAK OLAJUWON says it all. Anytime time u are dropping 20 points and 10 dimes for 3-4 seasons in a row, u are a BEAST!

At the same time, KJ isn't underrated. He wasn't great for a long enough period of time to be ranked on the same level as Magic, Isiah, Stockton, or Payton. GOAT wise, all four of those guys are in the top 10. So for those who think KJ deserves to be ranked that high GOAT wise, they are sadly mistaken. But peak wise, he was a HOF kind of talent.

If people are looking for underrated PG's in the last 15-20 years, they need to look at guys like Rod Strickland, Terry Porter, Sam Cassell, and Andre Miller. Guess how many All Star games those guys have between them? ONLY THREE! When in reality, all three of those guys were good enough to have THREE ALL STAR APPEARANCES EACH!! But some guys just fall through the cracks for various reasons when it comes to accolades. I don't consider KJ one of those guys. He gets his just due historically.

Typically, its the casual fans or fans who aren't true students of the game that make guys underrated. THE THING IS many of those people are actually in the media covering sports. But basketball isn't their favorite sport. Or a sport that they know at a high student of the game level.

[ClipperRevival]

I agree! At that time, I can't recall a MORE EXPLOSIVE PG at that size. His dunk on a PEAK OLAJUWON says it all. Anytime time u are dropping 20 points and 10 dimes for 3-4 seasons in a row, u are a BEAST!

At the same time, KJ isn't underrated. He wasn't great for a long enough period of time to be ranked on the same level as Magic, Isiah, Stockton, or Payton. GOAT wise, all four of those guys are in the top 10. So for those who think KJ deserves to be ranked that high GOAT wise, they are sadly mistaken. But peak wise, he was a HOF kind of talent.

If people are looking for underrated PG's in the last 15-20 years, they need to look at guys like Rod Strickland, Terry Porter, Sam Cassell, and Andre Miller. Guess how many All Star games those guys have between them? ONLY THREE! When in reality, all three of those guys were good enough to have THREE ALL STAR APPEARANCES EACH!! But some guys just fall through the cracks for various reasons when it comes to accolades. I don't consider KJ one of those guys. He gets his just due historically.

Typically, its the casual fans or fans who aren't true students of the game that make guys underrated. THE THING IS many of those people are actually in the media covering sports. But basketball isn't their favorite sport. Or a sport that they know at a high student of the game level.

Yeah, KJ ranks higher peak wise than career wise because his peak and/or great years were short. That's why i specifically said he was the classic example of a guy's play dropping off considerably once he lost a step. That tells me he relied heavily on his first step and quickness (which he did) to succeed. And that's no shame because most guys under 6'1" need quickness to succeed. And once they lose a step, their play can fall off considerably. Most small guy's plays drop off considerably once they turn 30, especially for guys who relied on athleticism.

[bizil]

Yeah, KJ ranks higher peak wise than career wise because his peak and/or great years were short. That's why i specifically said he was the classic example of a guy's play dropping off considerably once he lost a step. That tells me he relied heavily on his first step and quickness (which he did) to succeed. And that's no shame because most guys under 6'1" need quickness to succeed. And once they lose a step, their play can fall off considerably. Most small guy's plays drop off considerably once they turn 30, especially for guys who relied on athleticism.

Well said! Even in Isiah's case, he retired at 32 or 33 years old because of the wear and tear. Then u look at Stockton who was still an All Star caliber PG into his late 30's. And played until age 40. Stockton never relied on speed as his main weapon. EVEN THOUGH he was quicker than people realized. Stockton was a master of pace.

[ClipperRevival]

Well said! Even in Isiah's case, he retired at 32 or 33 years old because of the wear and tear. Then u look at Stockton who was still an All Star caliber PG into his late 30's. And played until age 40. Stockton never relied on speed as his main weapon. EVEN THOUGH he was quicker than people realized. Stockton was a master of pace.

It's unreal how most athletes lose a step in the 30-32 range. It's always been that way. Why that age range? Who knows.

[Mrofir]

He's underrated per simple fact of not being in the hof yet. He belongs there.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Also a couple of people here who did not see him play keep comparing him athletically to AI, Rose and Westbrook which I think is absurd.

I've definitely seen him play and, imo, he's on that level athletically, before all the serious injuries... Not even saying he was as good, many times it's hard to exaclty judge, but to me, he's definitely on that level overall.

[bizil]

He's underrated per simple fact of not being in the hof yet. He belongs there.

In my opinion, KJ's career ISN'T a must for the HOF. At his peak, he was a HOF caliber PG FOR SURE. But an HOF is built around GOAT status. So I don't think KJ quite measures up. Which is a shame because he was on his way. BUT with the way the HOF has become somewhat watered down, he could get in one day...

[Lensanity]

Top 5 most underrated in NBA history. Prime KJ was one of the best PG's ever. Nobody even talks about him anymore.

[bizil]

When it comes to comparing KJ to guys like Westbrook and Rose, we gotta keep in mind that those guys have 2-3 inches on KJ. And are around the 190-200 pound mark. So they are gonna be more powerful finishing at the rack. BUT in KJ's era, he was THE GOLD STANDARD for a freak athletic PG.

And for guards 6'1 and under, KJ doesn't take a backseat to ANY great PG in terms of athletic ability. Among the elite small guards 6'1 and under, KJ, Iverson, and even Isiah were the most athletic in my opinion. For guys who are or were average to good NBA players u of course got the guys like Nate and Spud.

[TheCorporation]

Basketball reference had him in the top 100 (#99)
HoopDoctor did a top 20 PG and he was ranked #18

From their site "Currently the mayor of Sacramento, California,

[bizil]

[QUOTE=TheCorporation]Basketball reference had him in the top 100 (#99)
HoopDoctor did a top 20 PG and he was ranked #18

From their site "Currently the mayor of Sacramento, California,

[No_Look604]

His dunk on Hakeem is one of my all-time favorites.

[TheCorporation]

To be honest with u, I think all the guys listed had better careers than KJ. Peak wise, KJ was better than all of them except Tiny. But career or GOAT wise, KJ ACTUALLY had the inferior career to all of those guys. KJ's didn't have the longevity to be rated ahead of those guys on a GOAT list. Lenny and Tiny were on the NBA's official 50 Greatest List. NOBODY thought KJ was an omission at all.

There is a difference between peak and GOAT status. Peak wise, KJ could arguably be a top 10-12 PG of all time. But GOAT wise, he's MUCH MUCH further down the charts. At this point, CP3 had ALREADY passed KJ and others on that list by.

Yeah, I think CP3 was ranked 46 I want to say?

[mistergreens]

His dunk on Hakeem is one of my all-time favorites.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVcSndz52DE

Yes, one of my favorite dunks of all time.

[Pointguard]

When it comes to comparing KJ to guys like Westbrook and Rose, we gotta keep in mind that those guys have 2-3 inches on KJ. And are around the 190-200 pound mark. So they are gonna be more powerful finishing at the rack. BUT in KJ's era, he was THE GOLD STANDARD for a freak athletic PG.

And for guards 6'1 and under, KJ doesn't take a backseat to ANY great PG in terms of athletic ability. Among the elite small guards 6'1 and under, KJ, Iverson, and even Isiah were the most athletic in my opinion. For guys who are or were average to good NBA players u of course got the guys like Nate and Spud.
Spudd was a contemporary and had more explosion than KJ, that was part of the problem. Spudd dunked on Bol once and that's close to a four foot difference after you get thru arm-lengths and such. You take out KJ's explosion and he's not that special athletically.

Size shouldn't be that big of deal athletically. KJ for the 6 foot and under guys wasn't as fast or quick as AI. Size should work as a negative for those categories but Rose might be the best in those categories. KJ couldn't jump as high as Nate or Spudd and I wouldn't call him more explosive than them either. Agility, has nothing to do with size and Rose kills in that area. Balance, coordination and dexertity has nothing to do with size either. Now KJ was fast and quick but maybe not to the people who seen Archibald and Murphy. So you have to exaggerate his explosion to have him as a great standout at his time. But there was Spudd...

While I will say he was impressive, but if Hakeem has two or three fouls on him, KJ wouldn't be talked about as much athletically. I just did a thread about athletic attributes last week. And there are different ways to stand out.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=383901

[LAZERUSS]

Just ask Hakeem...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifx_gRF-ouU&spfreload=10

[bizil]

Spudd was a contemporary and had more explosion than KJ, that was part of the problem. Spudd dunked on Bol once and that's close to a four foot difference after you get thru arm-lengths and such. You take out KJ's explosion and he's not that special athletically.

Size shouldn't be that big of deal athletically. KJ for the 6 foot and under guys wasn't as fast or quick as AI. Size should work as a negative for those categories but Rose might be the best in those categories. KJ couldn't jump as high as Nate or Spudd and I wouldn't call him more explosive than them either. Agility, has nothing to do with size and Rose kills in that area. Balance, coordination and dexertity has nothing to do with size either. Now KJ was fast and quick but maybe not to the people who seen Archibald and Murphy. So you have to exaggerate his explosion to have him as a great standout at his time. But there was Spudd...

While I will say he was impressive, but if Hakeem has two or three fouls on him, KJ wouldn't be talked about as much athletically. I just did a thread about athletic attributes last week. And there are different ways to stand out.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=383901

U make some good points. But KJ still qualifies as a freakish athlete. And of course guys like Spud and Nate are even more impressive in a sense. Because they are 5'6 and 5'7. BUT IN GAME SITUATIONS, KJ was more dominant with his athletic ability than they were. I'm talking about game situations. I'm not talking about dunk contests.

In games, KJ has WAY MORE POSTER material than Nate and Spud COMBINED! Quite simply, KJ's athletic ability in games situations SMOKES anything Nate or Spud did. It's about how u apply your athletic ability TO CONSISTENTLY MAKE THE WOW PLAYS TIME AFTER TIME!!

When it comes to AI, he wasn't as powerful finishing at the rack as KJ. Sure AI was faster. But KJ was EASILY ABOVE AVERAGE in terms of speed and quickness to the rack. What made KJ unique from guys like Isiah, Tiny, and Murphy was his ability to finish over the top of big centers in a dominant fashion. He took what they did to the next level. It's about evolution.

And size has a LOT TO DO WITH DUNKING ON BIG MEN CONSISTENTLY!! If u listed the top 10-20 in game dunkers among GREAT PERIMETER PLAYERS, they are ALL at least 6'3 to 6'4 and up! When people say freakish athletic ability, the things they think about are speed, hops, power, explosion, etc.:

MJ
Vince
Dr. J
Nique
David Thompson
Westbrook
Wade
T Mac
Kobe
Drexler
Bron

All of these guys are AT LEAST 6'3 and up. In game wise, guys like Nate and Spud aren't gonna be anywhere close to these guys.

[Pointguard]

U make some good points. But KJ still qualifies as a freakish athlete. And of course guys like Spud and Nate are even more impressive in a sense. Because they are 5'6 and 5'7. BUT IN GAME SITUATIONS, KJ was more dominant with his athletic ability than they were. I'm talking about game situations. I'm not talking about dunk contests.

In games, KJ has WAY MORE POSTER material than Nate and Spud COMBINED! Quite simply, KJ's athletic ability in games situations SMOKES anything Nate or Spud did. It's about how u apply your athletic ability TO CONSISTENTLY MAKE THE WOW PLAYS TIME AFTER TIME!!
That's what I'm telling you. KJ wasn't the everyday guy doing this. That's simply not true. Guys on here are saying he's in Rose and Westbrook category (not you, but ShaqisGoat). He's not in AI's category of Wow plays either. He dunked hard much like young AI - once every two or three weeks... maybe. Once in awhile KJ caught people napping like AI did. He wasn't doing this every game like Westbrook and them - that's not true. I went to five AI games and not once was there not two wow, plays due to his athleticism. Much of what you are saying is true.

AI would have dunked more but they punished him at a whole different level than KJ was. But he didn't lack for hard dunks or spectacular ones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jaa1n_idHO4


When it comes to AI, he wasn't as powerful finishing at the rack as KJ. Sure AI was faster. But KJ was EASILY ABOVE AVERAGE in terms of speed and quickness to the rack. What made KJ unique from guys like Isiah, Tiny, and Murphy was his ability to finish over the top of big centers in a dominant fashion. He took what they did to the next level. It's about evolution.
Thats just an aspect of athleticism. Lebron is considered a better athlete than Barkley and Barkley finished with more authority. It has everything to do with with Lebron's great coordination, speed, dexterity, agility, or in AI's case quickness. Vince explodes with great authority but he isn't the athlete Pippen was.


And size has a LOT TO DO WITH DUNKING ON BIG MEN CONSISTENTLY!! If u listed the top 10-20 in game dunkers among GREAT PERIMETER PLAYERS, they are ALL at least 6'3 to 6'4 and up! When people say freakish athletic ability, the things they think about are speed, hops, power, explosion, etc.:

MJ
Vince
Dr. J
Nique
David Thompson
Westbrook
Wade
T Mac
Kobe
Drexler
Bron

All of these guys are AT LEAST 6'3 and up. In game wise, guys like Nate and Spud aren't gonna be anywhere close to these guys.
Size definitely helps but Spudd is 7 to 8 inches smaller than KJ - Spudd dunked on Manute Bol so he did go over the tallest player ever. KJ is two inches smaller than Rose and Westbrook. KJ is two inches taller than AI and he wasn't the athlete AI was. As I said AI used his speed, quickness, balance, co-ordination, dexterity all the time.

I see your point about the evolution and his day and time - he represented it well. I just did a thread on athleticism and how the word gets misused.

[bizil]

That's what I'm telling you. KJ wasn't the everyday guy doing this. That's simply not true. Guys on here are saying he's in Rose and Westbrook category (not you, but ShaqisGoat). He's not in AI's category of Wow plays either. He dunked hard much like young AI - once every two or three weeks... maybe. Once in awhile KJ caught people napping like AI did. He wasn't doing this every game like Westbrook and them - that's not true. I went to five AI games and not once was there not two wow, plays due to his athleticism. Much of what you are saying is true.

AI would have dunked more but they punished him at a whole different level than KJ was. But he didn't lack for hard dunks or spectacular ones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jaa1n_idHO4

Thats just an aspect of athleticism. Lebron is considered a better athlete than Barkley and Barkley finished with more authority. It has everything to do with with Lebron's great coordination, speed, dexterity, agility, or in AI's case quickness. Vince explodes with great authority but he isn't the athlete Pippen was.

Size definitely helps but Spudd is 7 to 8 inches smaller than KJ - Spudd dunked on Manute Bol so he did go over the tallest player ever. KJ is two inches smaller than Rose and Westbrook. KJ is two inches taller than AI and he wasn't the athlete AI was. As I said AI used his speed, quickness, balance, co-ordination, dexterity all the time.

I see your point about the evolution and his day and time - he represented it well. I just did a thread on athleticism and how the word gets misused.

I agree that u can't put KJ on Westbrook's or Rose's level in terms of athletic ability. Those are probably the two most athletic PG's of all time. But in general, I consider KJ a freak athletic PG. That was my main point of contention. When it comes to KJ and AI, my main point was KJ was known to dunk on big guys more often than AI. In terms of getting to the rack in general, AI was faster and quicker than KJ. No doubt about that. For small guards, AI is the GOLD STANDARD for WOW plays and overall dominance in general.

[4 Inches]

Didn't KJ rape some woman ? Funny how he's president now.

[houston]

he was a choke artist

[Pointguard]

I agree that u can't put KJ on Westbrook's or Rose's level in terms of athletic ability. Those are probably the two most athletic PG's of all time. But in general, I consider KJ a freak athletic PG. That was my main point of contention. When it comes to KJ and AI, my main point was KJ was known to dunk on big guys more often than AI. In terms of getting to the rack in general, AI was faster and quicker than KJ. No doubt about that. For small guards, AI is the GOLD STANDARD for WOW plays and overall dominance in general.
You are right. KJ was the standard for dunk on a head, little guy for a good minute there. He, had a great last step. He caught Mark Eaton too. Love to see a little guy keep ascending.

We somehow forgot to mention Darrell Griffith and David Thompson who weren't as fast or quick as KJ, but were about the same height as Rose and Westbrook, and who have arguments of getting higher than them. Neither was a point guard.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Surprising how many casual fans don't know him. Although, I know a Suns fan who has his jersey.

[Dragonyeuw]

KJ was the prototype hyper-athletic point guard that guys like Westbrook/Rose/Wall have taken to the next level. His prime was short due to injuries but at his best he was right up there with the elites. Had a great first step, crossover, and very good mid-range shooter.

[bizil]

KJ was the prototype hyper-athletic point guard that guys like Westbrook/Rose/Wall have taken to the next level. His prime was short due to injuries but at his best he was right up there with the elites. Had a great first step, crossover, and very good mid-range shooter.

Well said! The guys u named took what KJ did to the next level. In his era, KJ was THE FREAK ATHLETE PG. It is a shame his prime was cut short by injuries. It's interesting that small guards like KJ, Isiah, and AI all were past their primes and beat up in their early 30's. For many of the great players, they are still in their primes or even peak in their early 30's.

I think u could even make the case that KJ's athletic ability revolutionized the PG spot at the time. Before him, there weren't small guards (6'1 and under) dunking on big PF's and C's as consistently as KJ. And the guys like Westbrook and Rose have FOR SURE taken what KJ was doing to the next level. Two PG's who were athletic beasts in the early 2000s were Baron Davis and Steve Francis.

[bizil]

You are right. KJ was the standard for dunk on a head, little guy for a good minute there. He, had a great last step. He caught Mark Eaton too. Love to see a little guy keep ascending.

We somehow forgot to mention Darrell Griffith and David Thompson who weren't as fast or quick as KJ, but were about the same height as Rose and Westbrook, and who have arguments of getting higher than them. Neither was a point guard.

Yep Griffith and Thompson were BEASTS! I really think they were the first above the rim freak athletes at the SG spot. Thompson was an absolute MONSTER at his peak. So much so he's arguably a top 10 SG of all time peak wise. At one point in the 70's, was neck and neck with Gervin and Maravich as the best SG in the world.

And Griffith was likely the first SG to combine very good to great three point shooting with freak athletic ability. I think's one of the best SG's to never make an All Star Game.