Current James Harden or Prime Paul Pierce?

[iamgine]

Who's the better player?

[Akrazotile]

Pierce because defense and heart.

Harden might look better in the regular season. If Im picking one for the playoffs its PP easy.

[J Shuttlesworth]

06 Pierce

[Smoke117]

James Harden. Paul Pierce was known as a cancer in his prime. He has become vastly overrated since he actually got those 2 better players in Boston and became the 3rd best player on his own team to win.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

James Harden. Paul Pierce was known as a cancer in his prime. He has become vastly overrated since he actually got those 2 better players in Boston and became the 3rd best player on his own team to win.
Ray wasnt better than Pierce:oldlol: :oldlol:

[FKAri]

Paul Pierce was deadly in the clutch.

[bizil]

I think this one is closer than many people may realize. I think Pierce is the better two way player. In terms of scoring skillset, Pierce exploits the midrange and postup area more than Harden. BUT Harden is just so damn explosive with his scoring and passing that I have to go with him. Scoring wise, Pierce has put up 25+PPG multiple seasons.

So for me, its more about Harden's passing and his slashing to the rack. I think he keeps the defense on its heels a bit more than peak Pierce did. But in terms of SG's currently in the league, Harden is the ONLY ONE I would take over a swingman like peak Pierce. Kobe and Wade have durability issues. And I would EASILY take peak Pierce over Klay, Butler, Derozan, Matthews, Beal, Monta, etc.

[1987_Lakers]

Harden.

[Genaro]

Pierce because defense and heart.

Harden might look better in the regular season. If Im picking one for the playoffs its PP easy.
:biggums: What the heck are you talking about? James Harden is a playoff record holder.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Tough call. I'd pick Pierce because bias and defence, but I can completely understand picking Harden's superior playmaking ability.

[swagga]

regular season + current rules => harden > pierce
playoffs + current rules => pierce >> harden (defense wins rings)
regular season + old rules => pierce >> harden
playoffs + old rules => pierce >>>>>>> harden

And lol at harden playmaking, he is a decent passer that abuses kick out passes ... this bearded niggga is a shame for the sport.

[SyRyanYang]

Pierce because of his competitive nature. Harden is probably the better basketball player though.

[Rose'sACL]

Harden.
this board bitches about eastern conference all the time but somehow harden getting so many wins without dwight in the tough western conference is not given any praise.

[Clifton]

Paul Pierce is the kind of guy I will be a stubborn old man about. In 40 years, when every player is 7'4 and has a 45 inch vertical, I will still be saying "I'd take prime Pierce over any of these guys. If only you younguns knew."

Harden is the "player of the future." He's very effective, but **** him. There's no such thing as victory without honor.

[unknowns8]

If we're playing a game where you don't have to play defence and you can disappear in big games and rely on dodgy ref calls to get to the line to make up for horrendously jacked up shots then I'll take Harden


otherwise, it's Pierce every fecken day of the week man

[Derka]

Taking my unabashed Celtics fandom completely out of the equation...I still go with prime Pierce, but its a lot closer in my own head than I thought it would be.

Prime Pierce could get his shot up anywhere on the floor he wanted to and was damn near perfect when he got to his preferred spots out there. Once he committed to improving his defense, something Harden has yet to do...that was the deciding factor.

[swagga]

Paul Pierce is the kind of guy I will be a stubborn old man about. In 40 years, when every player is 7'4 and has a 45 inch vertical, I will still be saying "I'd take prime Pierce over any of these guys. If only you younguns knew."

Harden is the "player of the future." He's very effective, but **** him. There's no such thing as victory without honor.

FUKK that future tbh.
They should name it fagggotball for all the flops, jumps into defenders with zero intent to score, rip throughs through the defender cylinder and eurostep blocking calls and all that shit.
I'm all for a clean game with no fouls but if you initiate contact you live with it.

Btw, all the 18-20 kids at the park do this shit, you can't even name it basketball anymore:facepalm . Some poor soul almost got beaten for pulling that crap. :roll:

[Bigsmoke]

James Harden's 2014-2015 season was better than season Paul Pierce ever had.

Its OK to respect your elders but Pierce was never an MVP candidate or even lead his team to at least 50 wins.

[PP34Deuce]

James Harden's 2014-2015 season was better than season Paul Pierce ever had.

Its OK to respect your elders but Pierce was never an MVP candidate or even lead his team to at least 50 wins.

James Harden can explode offensively for 35 plus points anytime you need it. That's a Kobe scoring skill that sometimes trumps defensive effort. Factor in his assists and setting the offense up and you have a guy that generates 42-46 points of the offense.

PP On the other hand, could explode on occasion for 35 plus point but was a more consistent 25-28 PPG with smarter IQ plays. I can't think of many times PP has made a huge mistake. He's got one of the higher IQ's defensively and offensively.

PP has led his team to 49 wins and has gotten further in different eras of NBA. He got to the Eastern Conference finals during the physical ugly era. and he won during the influx of new talent in 2008.

I would say James Harden is more talented by a little but I would take prime PP because of his attitude and IQ.

[ArbitraryWater]

Harden easily.. Pierce doesn't make it to the WCF.

2015 Harden is better than any Pierce version, and likely the beginning of his peak.

[RidonKs]

pierce no question

harden's game is ill-equipped against tough defenders. pierce might not be as dynamic but he can go off against anybody thanks to his size.

not to mention prime paul pierce is a hundred times smarter

[Fallen Angel]

James Harden easily.

Could explain in detail, but his 2015 season speaks for itself

[GIF REACTION]

Pierce.

[Rocketswin2013]

Is anyone even mentioning a season in which Pierce was actually better than '15 Harden?

[SHAQisGOAT]

Very close but probably Pierce...

[swagga]

Is anyone even mentioning a season in which Pierce was actually better than '15 Harden?

rings aren't won in the regular season
rings aren't won with harden's (lack of) defensive instincts.
rings aren't won by relying on freethrows with questionable refereering decisions


pierce went head to head with prime/peak lebron james and kobe bryant, more than once and came out on top as the man. Who did harden go against? klay thompson :oldlol: and jj redick :roll:

Let's look at harden's work as the man in HOU and give him a pass for that horrible finals in '12 where wade performed live colonoscopy on the court:
- lost with home court advantage against the blazers, chucking at 37%
- beat a hugely dysfunctional mavs team (in the HARD western conference :lol ) that would've lost to just about any team in the PO (ok, not toronto, but still)
- beat an imploding clippers team that choked hard as hell (harden shot 39% fg and 35% from 3, 41% of ALL his points came from the FT line :wtf: ... some alpha shit right there )
- got destroyed by GSW, playing on a team far superior to lebrons

y'all ****** trippin with this harden bullshit,, you need to grab the dvd collection with pierce. Let me put it this way, if pierce had a team like houston (howard, smith, terry, ariza, brewer and jones) he wouldn't beat GSW but at least he would've made it a game, he wouldn't chuck possession after possession.

Harden is just a chucker dependent on ref help which nerds love to prop for his TS, which doesn't take into account harden's unreliability, lack of adaptability, lack of intangibles, fastbreaks after missed threes, lack of ball movement offense, lack of leadership and so on. His MVP is the reason for which you can't take NBA seriously anymore, even in a weak year like 15, because in any other era he wouldn't even be in the conversation due to sane rules, which btw will probably be addressed anyways in the following years.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

I don't like Harden but yeah, he's better than prime Pierce at the moment. Both are on a path to the Hall of Fame regardless.

[Fallen Angel]

Better Scorer: James Harden
Better Passer: James Harden
Better Rebounder: Paul Pierce
Better Defender: Paul Pierce (not saying much)
Better Teammate: James Harden (the proof is in the wins)
More Accomplished: James Harden (2008 Pierce isn't Prime Pierce)

If I need a rebounder or a guy that'll give up 40 to Lebron every night I'll be sure to call up Pierce.

[Rocketswin2013]

rings aren't won in the regular season
rings aren't won with harden's (lack of) defensive instincts.
rings aren't won by relying on freethrows with questionable refereering decisions


pierce went head to head with prime/peak lebron james and kobe bryant, more than once and came out on top as the man. Who did harden go against? klay thompson :oldlol: and jj redick :roll:

Let's look at harden's work as the man in HOU and give him a pass for that horrible finals in '12 where wade performed live colonoscopy on the court:
- lost with home court advantage against the blazers, chucking at 37%
- beat a hugely dysfunctional mavs team (in the HARD western conference :lol ) that would've lost to just about any team in the PO (ok, not toronto, but still)
- beat an imploding clippers team that choked hard as hell (harden shot 39% fg and 35% from 3, 41% of ALL his points came from the FT line :wtf: ... some alpha shit right there )
- got destroyed by GSW, playing on a team far superior to lebrons

y'all ****** trippin with this harden bullshit,, you need to grab the dvd collection with pierce. Let me put it this way, if pierce had a team like houston (howard, smith, terry, ariza, brewer and jones) he wouldn't beat GSW but at least he would've made it a game, he wouldn't chuck possession after possession.

Harden is just a chucker dependent on ref help which nerds love to prop for his TS, which doesn't take into account harden's unreliability, lack of adaptability, lack of intangibles, fastbreaks after missed threes, lack of ball movement offense, lack of leadership and so on. His MVP is the reason for which you can't take NBA seriously anymore, even in a weak year like 15, because in any other era he wouldn't even be in the conversation due to sane rules, which btw will probably be addressed anyways in the following years.

Overly emotional garbage post. Harden is better than Pierce ever was.

I don't even like Harden but he's pretty much peaked higher.

The only way you can disagree is if you're a nostalgic basketball purist.

[AirTupac]

The whole concept of the NBA is to win a championship. Harden is a bonafide loser. I'll take a clutch player like Pierce over Bumden anyday

[IncarceratedBob]

is this a joke? pierce is way better, harden is good in this era but he couldnt handle the era before superstar calls

[SCdac]

Sure Harden was a great MVP candidate last season but it's all relative, isn't it. James Harden wasn't competing for the award with prime Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Garnett, Dirk, McGrady, etc. Kevin Durant wasn't even playing and he's the best player in the NBA not named Lebron. Having said that I'd take Pierce too. Imo, a better comparison for Harden (so far) is prime Gilbert Arenas (not in terms of playing style necessarily, but rather rankings and such). Still has alot to prove, but has proven alot already too.

[Thechosen1]

prime pierce...PRIME? and this is a thread? prime pierce in todays NBA would destroy

[Fallen Angel]

I love how people try to discredit eras.

Like we didn't just have Westbrook, Curry, Lebron, CP3, Davis, and Harden all duke it out for MVP. Then we're gonna act like Harden didn't play in a FAR FAR FAR superior division than Pierce did.

Prime Pierce was never in the discussion for an MVP Award at any point of his career, he's good but not as good as Harden was last season. His team accomplishments pale in comparison, too.

inb4 someone brings up 2008 Pierce

[pastis]

Sure Harden was a great MVP candidate last season but it's all relative, isn't it. James Harden wasn't competing for the award with prime Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Garnett, Dirk, McGrady, etc. Kevin Durant wasn't even playing and he's the best player in the NBA not named Lebron. Having said that I'd take Pierce too. Imo, a better comparison for Harden (so far) is prime Gilbert Arenas (not in terms of playing style necessarily, but rather rankings and such). Still has alot to prove, but has proven alot already too.

:applause: :applause:

[RRR3]

I will not give my opinion on this, since I only really remember watching older PP (may have seen him play when he was young can't recall as I didn't watch NBA much). However, people on ISH really need to stop acting like Harden is this all-time playoff choker. He dispelled that this season, as he maintained his production throughout the playoffs and had multiple huge games. No one here thought they were making the WCFs, hell I remember many picking the Mavericks over them.
Harden had an excellent playoffs, and one horrible game in a series his team was already down 3-1 in to the eventual champs hardly changes how great he was overall in the playoffs.

[AirTupac]

I love how people try to discredit eras.

Like we didn't just have Westbrook, Curry, Lebron, CP3, Davis, and Harden all duke it out for MVP. Then we're gonna act like Harden didn't play in a FAR FAR FAR superior division than Pierce did.

Prime Pierce was never in the discussion for an MVP Award at any point of his career, he's good but not as good as Harden was last season. His team accomplishments pale in comparison, too.

inb4 someone brings up 2008 Pierce


Lmao you made the argument for us. He went against Curry, Cp3, Davis, Westbrook and a half assed LeBron.

Compared to the players prime Pierce went up against: Tmac, Kobe, Iverson, Carter, Shaq, Garnett, Duncan, Dirk, Nash and the list goes on. Not only were there more bonafide stars, but the level of superstardom was much higher with this group of players as well.

[HoopologyPhD]

Pierce.

Don't know how people can knock a guy who put up 27, 7 and 5 with 47% from the field in 2006 alongside the likes of Raef Lafrentz, Delonte West and Ryan Gomes.

[Jailblazers7]

It's kind of difficult for me to judge Harden because few players have ever been in a situation as perfectly suited to their strengths and weaknesses.

[Fallen Angel]

Lmao you made the argument for us. He went against Curry, Cp3, Davis, Westbrook and a half assed LeBron.

Compared to the players prime Pierce went up against: Tmac, Kobe, Iverson, Carter, Shaq, Garnett, Duncan, Dirk, Nash and the list goes on. Not only were there more bonafide stars, but the level of superstardom was much higher with this group of players as well.
That's because you're comparing players' body of work through their career rather than a collectively single season.

Here's Paul Pierce's MVP Shares (where he finished in voting) throughout his career:

https://i.gyazo.com/2d59a2253a3c2a5460f1a7da708ee9b1.png

Two of Prime Pierce's best chances to win MVP:

Harden would have finished 4th in MVP Voting in 2002 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2002.html#mvp)

Harden would have finished 5th in MVP Voting in 2003 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2002.html#mvp)

Meanwhile, Pierce is getting trash votes.

[Rose'sACL]

It's kind of difficult for me to judge Harden because few players have ever been in a situation as perfectly suited to their strengths and weaknesses.
yes, that dwight injury. That perfect situation of playing in the west. that perfect situation of reaching WCF after 2 of your players got injured.

Paul Pierce best season: 27-7-5 on 58.2TS% resulting in 33 wins
Harden best season: 27.4-6-7 on 60.4TS% resulting in 56 wins

[And1AllDay]

Give me this guy:

http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/NBA+Finals+Game+6+Los+Angeles+Lakers+v+Boston+wo60 aozXtxwl.jpg

[swagga]

Overly emotional garbage post. Harden is better than Pierce ever was.

I don't even like Harden but he's pretty much peaked higher.

The only way you can disagree is if you're a nostalgic basketball purist.

i stated facts clear facts.
you called me overly emotional. niggga look in the mirror :roll:

[swagga]

That's because you're comparing players' body of work through their career rather than a collectively single season.

Here's Paul Pierce's MVP Shares (where he finished in voting) throughout his career:

https://i.gyazo.com/2d59a2253a3c2a5460f1a7da708ee9b1.png

Two of Prime Pierce's best chances to win MVP:

Harden would have finished 4th in MVP Voting in 2002 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2002.html#mvp)

Harden would have finished 5th in MVP Voting in 2003 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2002.html#mvp)

Meanwhile, Pierce is getting trash votes.

do you know how MVP shares are computed doe? they don't translate across years.

if you think harden would get votes with peak duncan/ shaq/kobe/garnett/orlando tmac in 2002/2003/2004 you've lost you god damned mind son :biggums:

pierce got shit votes like any other very good player stuck on a bad team.

[Cali Syndicate]

Paul Pierce was deadly in the clutch.he was hitting potential game winners basically every game this last postseason.

[Rose'sACL]

he was hitting potential game winners basically every game this last postseason.
regular season and playoffs, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 2:00 or less left in quarter, shot to tie or take lead


paul pierce 107/309 34.6% FG
James Harden 31/77 40.2%FG

Smaller sample size but pierce wasn't doing much better than his overall clutch FG% during his early years either.

[bizil]

One thing to keep in mind is the fact that Harden's secondary position is PG. He's one those guys who can legit play PG, SG, and SF. Pierce is more of a pure swingman with some point forward versatility as well.

In any event, both guys are highly skilled and versatile. I think u could go either way. Both qualify as great scorers. But Harden is gonna go down as one of the greatest passing SG's of all time. I just think he's the better TOTAL OFFENSIVE PLAYER than PP. For just scoring in general, they are even.

I also think Pierce has arguably one of the top five scoring skillsets among SF's ever. U got Bird, Melo, and Durant of course. But from there, I think u could rate Pierce as high as 4th for total scoring skillsets among SF's. I think he and Rick Barry could round out the top five SF's ever in terms of scoring skillset.

[RoseCity07]

The guy that shut Kobe down in the NBA Finals

[r0drig0lac]

Pierce

[Fallen Angel]

One thing to keep in mind is the fact that Harden's secondary position is PG. He's one those guys who can legit play PG, SG, and SF. Pierce is more of a pure swingman with some point forward versatility as well.
Harden can also play some PF for small stretches with his upper body strength

He did it during the regular season, he did it against Dirk, and he did it against Blake.

[macpierce]

This is a tough one but I think Pierce in the playoffs would be more effective than Harden since he plays both sides of the ball.

But again Harden is a better playmaker, and dare I say better scorer especially using todays rules.

[bizil]

In some comparisons, I think it actually comes down to a matter of taste. Or what u prefer. In terms of whose the better player, its damn close or even a tie often times. When it comes to Pierce, he's DAMN CLOSE to passing Nique to become the all time leading scorer among SF's in NBA history. He has 25,899 points while Nique has 26,668. That's a HUGE ACCOMPLISHMENT!!

[inclinerator]

wasnt the numbers harden putting up against the warriors better than anything pierce ever did? pierce is more clutch but harden is more effective

[I<3NBA]

Pierce.

because Harden disappears when your team needs him.

[HighFlyer23]

Pierce is superior based on what has been seen so far

But Harden has just come into fruition

[Kobe_6/8]

Pierce has a higher IQ so I'll take him...we haven't seen prime Harden yet.

[CarlosBoozer]

Harden hasn't hit his prime

[imdaman99]

Everyone talking about how Harden carried his team to the WCFs :roll:

How soon we forget, he was riding the bench when the Rockets season was ending in game 6 against the Clips and Brewer was the guy that lead the amazing comeback. Pierce has his share of flopping/pretending (wheelchair) but it's nothing compared to the shit Harden pulls.

[qrich]

It's Pierce, and it isn't even close. Even at this point, I recall more times Pierce stepping up when his team needed him, this past season, than Harden in the past couple of season. Team it with Pierce being a night and day superior defender and not needing gifts from the officials to get free throws, finalizing it with Pierce not being benched during the fourth quarter of an elimination game while his team makes one of the most historic comebacks in playoff history, and it is quite clear.

To think, Pierce was 0.1 second away from hitting another great clutch shot and extending his time with the Wizards.

[Fallen Angel]

Prime Pierce was never that good to begin with, he's never been a legit MVP candidate. His best season wouldn't have been MVP worthy last season.

Harden won more games last season in a tougher division than Pierce did in a historically weak Atlantic Division.

Harden's stats and accomplishments are easily superior to Pierce at his prime. They way posters are propping up Pierce for his clutchness are making him sound like a rich man's Joe Johnson, since both were career underachievers in their prime.

[Fallen Angel]

Propping a player for being more clutch (especially when both players are proven to be clutch) is a dumb argument. Joe Johnson would be better than Lebron James if that were the case.

inb4 the stats aren't close. The stats between Harden and Pierce isn't close, it clearly favors Harden.

[GIF REACTION]

Dumb argument

Paul has the achievements, the tenure, and the reputation.

[TheBigVeto]

Pierce easy.

Hell, old man washed up Pierce is still better than current Harden.

[Fallen Angel]

Pierce easy.

Hell, old man washed up Pierce is still better than current Harden.
Pierce is putting up 27/7/5, winning the most difficult division in the league, and leading his team to the Conference Finals?

I've got to see this.

[Lebronxrings]

harden, i wanna see pierce win an mvp.

[NuggetsFan]

Did nobody watch Paul Pierce back in the day? Dude had his troubles in the playoffs too. He also played in a much weaker conference on top of that. Pierce cashed in by teaming up with KG/Allen late in his career and boosting everybody's opinion of him. He had missed the playoffs for like 3 straight seasons before they showed up.

Prime Pierce was nowhere near the defender that big 3 Pierce was too which I think some are forgetting. That Celtics team as a unit was terrifying.

27/7/6 on a 56 win team. 2nd best player only played 41 games. Second highest scorer? Trevor Ariza at 13 points. In a conference tougher than anything Pierce ever played in. Harden didn't choke in the playoffs either. WCF birth with his only blackmark coming against the Clippers that one game. 27/7/6 on 44% shooting. Had some big games too.

Harden's 2015 was better than anything Pierce did in his prime, Pierce finished his career with a championships and lots of success. Hard to say if Harden can do the same.

Peak - Harden
Prime - Toss up. Harden really only has 3 seasons under his belt. Will be Harden if he can repeat last year.
Career - Obviously Pierce.

[plowking]

prime pierce...PRIME? and this is a thread? prime pierce in todays NBA would destroy

Oh ffs.

This forum... seriously...

Prime Paul Pierce wasn't doing shit in any conference before they made the big 3. Where do people get this perception that Paul Pierce was some 1 man wrecking crew? He literally played on the Celtics during some of their worst years... ever.

He wins a championship, has a few series where he acts tough to the big boys like Bron and Kobe, and all of a sudden, we sit here and pretend he'd destroy the current NBA? Please, he'd be borderline top 15 like he always was in his time, and any other time if you transport him there.

Fact is, if he doesn't team up with that stacked cast in Boston then Paul Pierce goes down in history as a forgotten player for the most part. I don't mean that in a bad sense, but much like Mitch Richmond, or Chris Mullin or Alex English for example. That is the level of player he is. A good one, that ultimately is just that... A good player that you often forget about. He was never some bonafide star leading his team to greatness.
Before KG and Allen came along he'd been to the playoffs just 4 times. Only out of the 1st round a total of two times, and he was swept two times...

Please, enough with the old school nostalgia BS. Shit is overwhelmingly lame and tiresome at this point.

James Harden last season was better than Pierce ever was. His cast that he led to the WCF wasn't any better than a lot of the teams Pierce was leading to 30 something wins in a historically weak East from 98-2004.

[plowking]

Pierce easy.

Hell, old man washed up Pierce is still better than current Harden.

Should ban idiots like this too. Contribute absolutely nothing. Perma ban them. We don't need idiots like this derailing conversations.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

:oldlol: Plowking I can see your general point but you're just straight up wrong. First, you list his prime as 98-04, saying he lead the team to 30 something wins. He lead the team to the East finals with 25/9/4 in a season they won 49 games. The next year in the playoffs he averaged 27/9/7, though he lost in the second round (as Houston realistically should have this year, sans an exhausted Clipper collapse and Josh Smith raining 3s). You'll have heard of approximately 1 of the other players on those teams, and in both those seasons that player shot under 40% and attempted 8 threes a game. Once that guy got traded Pierce had no one, and whilst his team abjectly sucked, he dragged them away from the bottom of the standings.

Holding his post-prime against him, as a still-relevant force in the playoffs 18 years after being drafted, is a somewhat strange argument. Saying his career would be the same as other totally forgotten and underrated players is hardly a knock. And if Harden never wins a ring... Exactly who will remember him, who wouldnt have remembered Pierce?

[NBAplayoffs2001]

harden, i wanna see pierce win an mvp.

Dragic/Lebron/JT still post? :biggums:

[houston]

harden