Why doesn't Spo get blame for the 2011 nba finals?

[Lebronxrings]

I mean people all blame lebron (No surprise since its ISH), but don't seem to look at the staff of the heat during that series.

Lets look at the series:
Game 1-Did alright, heat started out bad but came back from a huge deficit led by lebron

2-Disgusting. The mavs came back from a huge deficit, and spo couldn't change the outcome of the game. I believe the heat had a 15 something lead in the 4th but lost it as Spo failed to adjust. He didn't think of doubling dirk which led to the game winner, and no timeouts for the heat resulting in a wade brick. :facepalm

3-almost blew it, lebron, wade and bosh all had decent games. Spo almost cost the game.

4-heat were up in the 4th, but blew the lead as the team lost control on defense.

5- defense was terrible. The mavs had open looks and rained 3s, which spo could not counter against.

6- couldn't go up against ricks' zone d and it cost the heat big time.

In short, he failed the heat and failed to adjust getting outcoached countless games against Carlisle. While i admit everyone on the heat wet the bed in the finals, Spo could have easily won with the heat with simple adjustments.


Failure as a coach.

[outbreak]

It's hard to blame the coach when he wasn't really coaching. He deserves blame but at the same time that team was built around Lebron and Wade doing whatever they wanted.

[Asiantastic]

It's not really his fault that the best player on his team was underperforming. What do you expect him to do? Take LeBron out in the 4th quarter? He'd probably be more scrutinized for doing that.

[FLDFSU]

For the 2011 Finals, specifically, Lebron shoulders most of the blame...although I would point out that prior to that series, Lebron was the one Heat player to always play at or exceed his share.

In fact, if not for Lebron, we do not even sniff the Finals as Wade was just bad against Chicago.


Spo is at least partly to blame for everything else concerning the Heat.

The 2011-2014 Miami Heat had to overcome the moron that is Spo. The only time Spo was worth a damn was early in 2012 when he implemented "space and pace" which led to us being about as dominate as our talent demands.

And of of course Spo's idiotic coaching is what led to us this season missing the playoffs entirely. This, despite being in the "worst conference ever" East.

[ShawkFactory]

Cause you're a fakkit

[ClipperRevival]

Never seen an all time great shy away from the moment in a finals like Bron in 2011. He wanted nothing to do with the outcome of games.

[Lebronxrings]

It's not really his fault that the best player on his team was underperforming. What do you expect him to do? Take LeBron out in the 4th quarter? He'd probably be more scrutinized for doing that.
thats not my point. While the entire team under performed, there were still ways Spo could have adjusted to counter the mavs. I just highlighted a few mistakes, read the op.

[Droid101]

http://web.archive.org/web/20140713010430/http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=342014

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9jTYuKvZ-as/U9k1RWev3OI/AAAAAAAAqqc/jeUfCDOkXbw/w938-h302-no/lebronxringsMeltdown.PNG

Stop posting on this website.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

My friend still owes me $25 when I said the Mavs will win in 5 games :(

[Lebronxrings]

Never seen an all time great shy away from the moment in a finals like Bron in 2011. He wanted nothing to do with the outcome of games.
18 points, 7 reb, 7 assists is shying away? :wtf:

He took on the point guard role in the finals as chalmers was more of a spot up shooter and tertiary handler. Wade was the main scorer, lebron was the facilitator.

[DMV2]

He doesn't get credit for the backtoback titles so why should he get credit for the loses?

It was all LeBron, wins and loses.

[TheMarkMadsen]

For the 2011 Finals, specifically, Lebron shoulders most of the blame...although I would point out that prior to that series, Lebron was the one Heat player to always play at or exceed his share.

In fact, if not for Lebron, we do not even sniff the Finals as Wade was just bad against Chicago.
.

I would like to point out that you're an idiot

Wade led the team in scoring and assist for the Boston series..

Wade put up 22/8/5 against the 76ers..

Bosh put up 20/9 against the 76ers..

Bosh put up 23/8 against the Bulls..

[Lebronxrings]

before more troll posts come up with lebron; Yes, he did not play well in the finals, neither did wade, bosh, chalmers, miller, etc. I just wanted to point out that spo seems to run free from blame. He was one of, if not the main reason for the loss.

[ClipperRevival]

18 points, 7 reb, 7 assists is shying away? :wtf:

He took on the point guard role in the finals as chalmers was more of a spot up shooter and tertiary handler. Wade was the main scorer, lebron was the facilitator.

I have eyes. I know what I saw in that series. A superstar who wanted nothing to do with the outcome of games and continued to defer.

[Crown&Coke]

he told them not to let go of the rope.

Not his fault they didn't listen

[SouBeachTalents]

Because anyone who watched that series knows almost all the blame falls on LeBron. Dude had an NBA record 9 ppg drop off from his regular season average in the Finals, and was a total ghost in the 4th quarter

[Lebronxrings]

Because anyone who watched that series knows almost all the blame falls on LeBron. Dude had an NBA record 9 ppg drop off from his regular season average in the Finals, and was a total ghost in the 4th quarter
he averaged a near triple double... its not like he became a bosh 2.0...

His scoring did dip, but thats what wade and bosh were supposed to do. He was a magic johnson that series, not a michael jordan.

[plowking]

Because everyone knows Spo SUCKS at coaching. 100% of the blame is on him for 13-14. This idiot doesn't know how to build a team or fix what is wrong with one unless it falls into his lap (Whiteside).

[FKAri]

Sure you could blame him. He didn't figure out how to put his star in a better position to succeed. It's hard to say how much of it is Lebron underperforming and how much it is him not being put in a better position to succeed by the coaching staff etc.

[Lebronxrings]

Because everyone knows Spo SUCKS at coaching. 100% of the blame is on him for 13-14. This idiot doesn't know how to build a team or fix what is wrong with one unless it falls into his lap (Whiteside).
weren't people calling him a top 5 coach in the lebron years? I know he sucks, but people still hold him at a high standard.

[Young X]

he averaged a near triple double... its not like he became a bosh 2.0...

His scoring did dip, but thats what wade and bosh were supposed to do. He was a magic johnson that series, not a michael jordan.:roll:

[Legends66NBA7]

Sure you could blame him. He didn't figure out how to put his star in a better position to succeed. It's hard to say how much of it is Lebron underperforming and how much it is him not being put in a better position to succeed by the coaching staff etc.

Nah, loss is on the players.

[PJR]

I always love the dolts on here who claim Erik Spoelstra is an incompetent coach, but can almost never specifically diagnose what issues he has.


Pat Riley, whom has more acumen for professional basketball coaching in his pinky finger than you do in your whole body, thinks Spo is a fine coach. I think I'll take his opinion over a couple pea-brains, who don't have a single athletic bone in their bodies. Just saying.

The league is about players. A coach is only going to be as good as they players they have. Point blank.

[TheMarkMadsen]

before more troll posts come up with lebron; Yes, he did not play well in the finals, neither did wade, bosh, chalmers, miller, etc. I just wanted to point out that spo seems to run free from blame. He was one of, if not the main reason for the loss.

:coleman: :coleman:

[Lebronxrings]

I always love the dolts on here who claim Erik Spoelstra is an incompetent coach, but can almost never specifically diagnose what issues he has.


Pat Riley, whom has more acumen for professional basketball coaching in his pinky finger than you do in your whole body, thinks Spo is a fine coach. I think I'll take his opinion over a couple pea-brains, who don't have a single athletic bone in their bodies. Just saying.

The league is about players. A coach is only going to be as good as they players they have. Point blank.
You can literally say the same in all the scenarios of bad coaches. "Gms know more than us, why should we question them?" People make mistakes, Riley isn't a supreme genius which is why he lost his best player a few years later.

[PJR]

You can literally say the same in all the scenarios of bad coaches. "Gms know more than us, why should we question them?" People make mistakes, Riley isn't a supreme genius which is why he lost his best player a few years later.

Shut up.

[Lebronxrings]

:coleman: :coleman:
terrible game 6 (By lebron haters standards). Had a couple of choke moments late in the 4th of some games.

[SpecialQue]

Shut up.

:applause:

[TheMarkMadsen]

terrible game 6 (By lebron haters standards). Had a couple of choke moments late in the 4th of some games.

So wade had a bad series because he had a single bad game..??

[FLDFSU]

I would like to point out that you're an idiot

Wade led the team in scoring and assist for the Boston series..

Wade put up 22/8/5 against the 76ers..

Bosh put up 20/9 against the 76ers..

Bosh put up 23/8 against the Bulls..

Reading comprehension, bitch. Throughout the 2011 regular season and post-season, every member of the Heat at some point failed to pull their weight. That includes the Boston series where Bosh averaged 12 points, and the Chicago series where Wade averaged 18 points.

PRIOR to the Finals, Lebron James was our ONE constant that did not underperformed in the regular season nor the playoffs.

[r15mohd]

18 points, 7 reb, 7 assists is shying away? :wtf:

He took on the point guard role in the finals as chalmers was more of a spot up shooter and tertiary handler. Wade was the main scorer, lebron was the facilitator.


No point in trying to change made up minds

Spo said after the series that the game plan was to give Wade the green light and Lebron take a back seat to him and feed him best he could. So said, so done and it cost them dearly. That is a Spo/Riley blunder for sure. However, I still don't take away blame from Lebron as he's supposed to step up and take command when thing go south...which he didn't. Whether it be the stepping on the toes thing of one another and trying to stay the course with the plan, it was overall a complete mistake by the Heats coaching staff and their star players at the time.

It's no coincidence Wade suddenly relinquishes his role as a 1a/1b option with Lebron to a confirmed 2nd option and hands the team in full reigns to Lebron going forward. It's not like Wade demised in our eyes, he just came off one of the better performances of his career in the Finals.

Anyhoo...carry on with the agendas, folks! :cheers:

[SouBeachTalents]

Reading comprehension, bitch. Throughout the 2011 regular season and post-season, every member of the Heat at some point failed to pull their weight. That includes the Boston series where Bosh averaged 12 points, and the Chicago series where Wade averaged 18 points.

PRIOR to the Finals, Lebron James was our ONE constant that did not underperformed in the regular season nor the playoffs.

Just underperformed in the Finals :applause:

[Lebronxrings]

So wade had a bad series because he had a single bad game..??
he had choke moments in game 2 and 4 if i recall. And if we go by what u think, lebron had like 2 bad games, games 4 and 5 so we shouldn't say he had a bad series series.

[r15mohd]

Reading comprehension, bitch. Throughout the 2011 regular season and post-season, every member of the Heat at some point failed to pull their weight. That includes the Boston series where Bosh averaged 12 points, and the Chicago series where Wade averaged 18 points.

PRIOR to the Finals, Lebron James was our ONE constant that did not underperformed in the regular season nor the playoffs.


Gotta take it further with these agenda- driven folks.

Lebron goes from beasting in 3 prior series against as good an opposition as the Mavs, to being ghost? He was reluctant to shoot and looked more to pass than even attack..hot potato-esque. Never can buy that lol.

Game plan was set, Wade was given a green light to prove himself one last time and it back fired. Simple as that. See above for added reasoning.

[Lebronxrings]

No point in trying to change made up minds

Spo said after the series that the game plan was to give Wade the green light and Lebron take a back seat to him and feed him best he could. So said, so done and it cost them dearly. That is a Spo/Riley blunder for sure. However, I still don't take away blame from Lebron as he's supposed to step up and take command when thing go south...which he didn't. Whether it be the stepping on the toes thing of one another and trying to stay the course with the plan, it was overall a complete mistake by the Heats coaching staff and their star players at the time.

It's no coincidence Wade suddenly relinquishes his role as a 1a/1b option with Lebron to a confirmed 2nd option and hands the team in full reigns to Lebron going forward. It's not like Wade demised in our eyes, he just came off one of the better performances of his career in the Finals.

Anyhoo...carry on with the agendas, folks! :cheers:
ur right, lebron wasn't great. Good, but not GOAT great like the standard ish puts him on. My point is, although it wasn't up to his capabilities with a guy averaging 18/8/8 you should be able to win. Spo failed at it and is getting a free pass.

And no, there is no agenda with this thread. This thread is solely on spo, not lebron, wade or any other player.

[r15mohd]

ur right, lebron wasn't great. Good, but not GOAT great like the standard ish puts him on. My point is, although it wasn't up to his capabilities with a guy averaging 18/8/8 you should be able to win. Spo failed at it and is getting a free pass.

And no, there is no agenda with this thread. This thread is solely on spo, not lebron, wade or any other player.

I agree with you on Spo, definitely lacking in his abilities to effectively coach...and we'll see more of that with a fully healthy squad this year who are surely championship capable. Will he have them prevail or will it expose him more :confused:

2011 falls on the coaching staff and star players, more to blame than just pointing at one sole aspect

[Bandito]

Soon the triumvirate of ******s are going to be back. Beware fellow ISHians!!!

[Lebronxrings]

I agree with you on Spo, definitely lacking in his abilities to effectively coach...and we'll see more of that with a fully healthy squad this year who are surely championship capable. Will he have them prevail or will it expose him more :confused:

2011 falls on the coaching staff and star players, more to blame than just pointing at one sole aspect
glad to see someone finally understands what im saying. :cheers:

[Smoke117]

It's hard to blame the coach when he wasn't really coaching. He deserves blame but at the same time that team was built around Lebron and Wade doing whatever they wanted.

Indeed. They really didn't have a lot of schemes or game plan in general as a unit. They got by offensively with Wade and Lebron pretty much taking turns. It could get ugly in the half court though throughout that season in the half court because of lack of cohesion. Really they got by on their outstanding perimeter defense more than anything that season. Wade was a monster in 2011 defensively, lebron was great, and Mario always put in s good effort.

[RRR3]

LeBrons extremely substandard play was the main culprit, but Spo not realizing until too late that Chalmers needed to start over Bibby didn't help.

[Hey Yo]

No point in trying to change made up minds

Spo said after the series that the game plan was to give Wade the green light and Lebron take a back seat to him and feed him best he could. So said, so done and it cost them dearly. That is a Spo/Riley blunder for sure. However, I still don't take away blame from Lebron as he's supposed to step up and take command when thing go south...which he didn't. Whether it be the stepping on the toes thing of one another and trying to stay the course with the plan, it was overall a complete mistake by the Heats coaching staff and their star players at the time.

It's no coincidence Wade suddenly relinquishes his role as a 1a/1b option with Lebron to a confirmed 2nd option and hands the team in full reigns to Lebron going forward. It's not like Wade demised in our eyes, he just came off one of the better performances of his career in the Finals.

Anyhoo...carry on with the agendas, folks! :cheers:
Asking James to take a backseat (for the sake of Wade's one last hurrahh) was pretty dumb. LeBron hadn't been 2nd fiddle since probably his freshman year in H.S.

Like it was mentioned. Not a coincidence that Miami won B2B with Wade handing the team over to James later that summer.

[Lebron23]

Outside of LeBron underachieving. The Heat's bench was terrible. Shane Battier, Mike Miller, and Chris Andersen were a solid acquisition in the off season. They gave the Cavaliers a solid production.

[FLDFSU]

Gotta take it further with these agenda- driven folks.

Lebron goes from beasting in 3 prior series against as good an opposition as the Mavs, to being ghost? He was reluctant to shoot and looked more to pass than even attack..hot potato-esque. Never can buy that lol.

Game plan was set, Wade was given a green light to prove himself one last time and it back fired. Simple as that. See above for added reasoning.

I don't want to go that far and say that Lebron intentionally took a backseat so his pal Wade could shine.

If that's the case, Lebron is in some deep do-do. From possibly legally to definitely ethically.

However, as a Heat fan, unlike the moronic Cavs fans from 2009 and 2010, I refuse to go after the ONE constant on the Heat in 2011 who often times lead us in points, assists, rebounds, played the most minutes, was assigned the hardest match ups, played point guard, etc.

If Lebron found a way to overcome Wade against the Bulls, Wade should have figured out a way to overcome Lebron.

[GrapeApe]

I don't want to go that far and say that Lebron intentionally took a backseat so his pal Wade could shine.

If that's the case, Lebron is in some deep do-do. From possibly legally to definitely ethically.

However, as a Heat fan, unlike the moronic Cavs fans from 2009 and 2010, I refuse to go after the ONE constant on the Heat in 2011 who often times lead us in points, assists, rebounds, played the most minutes, was assigned the hardest match ups, played point guard, etc.

If Lebron found a way to overcome Wade against the Bulls, Wade should have figured out a way to overcome Lebron.

Without getting into the absurdity of this statement, the main difference is Wade stepped up in the clutch against the Bulls. Yes he struggled at times in that series, but he was mentally strong enough to fight through it and not disappear in the 4th quarter. If Lebron had been able to do that in the finals the Heat would have won the series.

[Lebronxrings]

Without getting into the absurdity of this statement, the main difference is Wade stepped up in the clutch against the Bulls. Yes he struggled at times in that series, but he was mentally strong enough to fight through it and not disappear in the 4th quarter. If Lebron had been able to do that in the finals the Heat would have won the series.
wade wasn't exactly super clutch either. Team effort and team fault, lets end it at that.

[Beastmode88]

Outside of LeBron underachieving. The Heat's bench was terrible. Shane Battier, Mike Miller, and Chris Andersen were a solid acquisition in the off season. They gave the Cavaliers a solid production.

didn't know battier and andersen played for the cavs.. :facepalm :facepalm


wade wasn't exactly super clutch either. Team effort and team fault, lets end it at that.

http://i.imgur.com/Zjcz52r.png

No impact from the self proclaimed best player in the world? :coleman:

[Cali Syndicate]

Spo's not a good coach. Not sure how he became some sort of understudy to riley. Either way, as a superstar, if the other team is eating away at your lead, you take action and stop the bleeding. Neither wade or lebron did that, lebron moreso than wade. And Facilitator my ass....this is the finals, if the game is weening, you take control and make something happen. Lebron even said so himself how he was passive and that this was a learning experience. Now Obey what your master says, else your dick will fall off. If it hasnt already.

[Lebronxrings]

didn't know battier and andersen played for the cavs.. :facepalm :facepalm



http://i.imgur.com/Zjcz52r.png

No impact from the self proclaimed best player in the world? :coleman:
he was not great in scoring during the 4th you're right, happy? Lebron was playing the game as a point guard which seemingly angered alot of people.

[Lebronxrings]

Spo's not a good coach. Not sure how he became some sort of understudy to riley. Either way, as a superstar, if the other team is eating away at your lead, you take action and stop the bleeding. Neither wade or lebron did that, lebron moreso than wade. And Facilitator my ass....this is the finals, if the game is weening, you take control and make something happen. Lebron even said so himself how he was passive and that this was a learning experience. Now Obey what your master says, else your dick will fall off. If it hasnt already.
its tough to stop the bleeding against mega superstar dirk who went nuts during the playoffs and his teammates who lost their minds. And yes, lebron was the facilitator during the games, he was meant to be the point guard, secondary scorer and go to defender against an extremely hot handed Jason Terry.

[Droid101]

its tough to stop the bleeding against mega superstar dirk who went nuts during the playoffs and his teammates who lost their minds. And yes, lebron was the facilitator during the games, he was meant to be the point guard, secondary scorer and go to defender against an extremely hot handed Jason Terry.
Wow, what an epic challenge.

[SouBeachTalents]

he was not great in scoring during the 4th you're right, happy? Lebron was playing the game as a point guard which seemingly angered alot of people.

I'd say a career 27 ppg scorer scoring 6 points combined in 4 consecutive close 4th quarters, 3 of which the Heat lost, is cause for anger and criticism

[Lebronxrings]

I'd say a career 27 ppg scorer scoring 6 points combined in 4 consecutive close 4th quarters, 3 of which the Heat lost, is cause for anger and criticism
how many shots did he take though? Its not like he went kobe and shot 10 shots and missed all, he took like 3-5 shots in the 4th. He was their primary point general and led the team as the main passer. Wade and Bosh (lol) were supposed to be the scorers. Heat lost because Wade, bosh, lebron couldn't carry the team including a rookie clueless coach.

[SouBeachTalents]

how many shots did he take though? Its not like he went kobe and shot 10 shots and missed all, he took like 3-5 shots in the 4th. He was their primary point general and led the team as the main passer. Wade and Bosh (lol) were supposed to be the scorers. Heat lost because Wade, bosh, lebron couldn't carry the team including a rookie clueless coach.

Wade & Bosh did hold up their end of the bargain scoring wise

Regular Season
Wade: 26 ppg
Bosh: 19 ppg
LeBron: 27 ppg

Finals
Wade: 27 ppg
Bosh: 19 ppg
LeBron: 18 ppg

There's absolutely no excuse for a healthy LeBron, smack dab in the middle of winning 4 MVP's, to average less than 20 ppg in the Finals

[sportjames23]

Is it Spo's fault Lebron played like a bitch in 2011?

[FLDFSU]

Without getting into the absurdity of this statement, the main difference is Wade stepped up in the clutch against the Bulls. Yes he struggled at times in that series, but he was mentally strong enough to fight through it and not disappear in the 4th quarter. If Lebron had been able to do that in the finals the Heat would have won the series.

The fact of the matter is that Lebron was able to overcome the equal bad Wade in order to win the Bulls series. Wade was unable to do the same a round later.

Period. Dot. End of Discussion.

If we are going to call 2011 Wade a superstar and a top 5 player in the NBA (I believe he was) we need to start holding EVERYONE accountable and not just have absurd standards for Lebron and then a completely different standard for everyone else.

[FLDFSU]

And let me remind everyone...including my fellow Heat fans...

There were THREE players that jumped on the stage and celebrated the formation of the Heat in July of 2010. Not ONE but THREE. The Heat did not form the big ONE in the summer of 2010. It was SUPPOSED to be forming a big THREE.

But over the course of the first four year of their mostly identical contracts...only ONE player...year in and year out...produced as he should for basically the entirety of his contract with Heat.

The union was SUPPOSED to an equally SHARED experience and equal heavy lifting. Instead all too often, including at times in the first year, only ONE player was consistently carrying a disportionate load. For that, the other TWO "superstars" should have be ashamed.

And this was from the FIRST game against Boston in October 2010...when, for the most part only ONE player showed up in that game...unfortunately foreshadowing what was to come for much of his tenure in Miami.


To even begin to criticize a Heat player that over his 4 year contract won the NBA MVP and FMVP twice, and was nearly universally hailed as the league's top player is asinine.

[SouBeachTalents]

And let me remind everyone...including my fellow Heat fans...

There were THREE players that jumped on the stage and celebrated the formation of the Heat in July of 2010. Not ONE but THREE. The Heat did not form the big ONE in the summer of 2010. It was SUPPOSED to be forming a big THREE.

But over the course of the first four year of their mostly identical contracts...only ONE player...year in and year out...produced as he should for basically the entirety of his contract with Heat.

The union was SUPPOSED to an equally SHARED experience and equal heavy lifting. Instead all too often, including at times in the first year, only ONE player was consistently carrying a disportionate load. For that, the other TWO "superstars" should have be ashamed.

And this was from the FIRST game against Boston in October 2010...when, for the most part only ONE player showed up in that game...unfortunately foreshadowing what was to come for much of his tenure in Miami.


To even begin to criticize a Heat player that over his 4 year contract won the NBA MVP and FMVP twice, and was nearly universally hailed as the league's top player is asinine.

It's equally asinine to not criticize LeBron for the 2011 Finals and not give him the bulk of the blame for that defeat

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

And let me remind everyone...including my fellow Heat fans...

There were THREE players that jumped on the stage and celebrated the formation of the Heat in July of 2010. Not ONE but THREE. The Heat did not form the big ONE in the summer of 2010. It was SUPPOSED to be forming a big THREE.

But over the course of the first four year of their mostly identical contracts...only ONE player...year in and year out...produced as he should for basically the entirety of his contract with Heat.

The union was SUPPOSED to an equally SHARED experience and equal heavy lifting. Instead all too often, including at times in the first year, only ONE player was consistently carrying a disportionate load. For that, the other TWO "superstars" should have be ashamed.

And this was from the FIRST game against Boston in October 2010...when, for the most part only ONE player showed up in that game...unfortunately foreshadowing what was to come for much of his tenure in Miami.


To even begin to criticize a Heat player that over his 4 year contract won the NBA MVP and FMVP twice, and was nearly universally hailed as the league's top player is asinine.

You sound like a weirdo stalker obsessed with hero worship. Might want to get that checked out.....

[Papaya Petee]

The fact of the matter is that Lebron was able to overcome the equal bad Wade in order to win the Bulls series. Wade was unable to do the same a round later.

Period. Dot. End of Discussion.

If we are going to call 2011 Wade a superstar and a top 5 player in the NBA (I believe he was) we need to start holding EVERYONE accountable and not just have absurd standards for Lebron and then a completely different standard for everyone else.
He overcame it by averaging 24 PPG vs the Bulls compared to 27 PPG for Wade vs the Mavs....

Shut up with this stupid shit.
Bulls weren't even close to the Mavs as a team.
Lebron had Bosh average 23 PPG vs the Bulls to step up.
Wade actually was clutch in overtime and 4th quarters of the ECF. Lebron was nowhere to be found come 4th quarters.

Not even remotely close situations.

[GrapeApe]

The fact of the matter is that Lebron was able to overcome the equal bad Wade in order to win the Bulls series. Wade was unable to a round later.

Period. Dot. End of Discussion.

If we are going to call 2011 Wade a superstar and a top 5 player in the NBA (I believe he was) we need to start holding EVERYONE accountable and not just have absurd standards for Lebron and then a completely different standard for everyone else.

:facepalm

I just explained why Wade was NOT equally bad, yet you chose to completely ignore it. Wade fought through his struggles and made big plays on both ends to help his team win. All great players struggle, but the truly great players stay focused, push through it, and come up big in the 4th quarter. Wade did that, as has Lebron on many occasions. For the record I don't absolve Wade of all blame for the loss in the finals, nor do I put the entirety of the blame on Lebron.

[FLDFSU]

He overcame it by averaging 24 PPG vs the Bulls compared to 27 PPG for Wade vs the Mavs....

Shut up with this stupid shit.
Bulls weren't even close to the Mavs as a team.
Lebron had Bosh average 23 PPG vs the Bulls to step up.
Wade actually was clutch in overtime and 4th quarters of the ECF. Lebron was nowhere to be found come 4th quarters.

Not even remotely close situations.

Let's see: During the Bulls series Lebron led the Heat in:

Points: 25.8
Assists: 6.6
Rebounds: 7.8
Steals: 2.4
Minutes: 45.2

Lebron was second in Blocks at 1.8.
Wade failed to led the Heat in any significant statistical category.

During the Mavs series Wade led the Heat in:

Points: 26.5
Blocks: 1.5

During that same series Lebron still managed to led the Heat in:

Rebounds: 7.2
Assists: 6.8
Steals: 1.7
Minutes: 43.6

If we are going to apply the same standards to superstar Wade as we do for superstar Lebron, Wade should have been able to overcome Lebron's drop in points considering that Lebron overcame Wade's drop in points against Chicago WHILE continuing to carry his team in all other significant categories.


But then again, this is ISH where absurd subjective criteria abounds.

[Wade's Rings]

For the 2011 Finals, specifically, Lebron shoulders most of the blame...although I would point out that prior to that series, Lebron was the one Heat player to always play at or exceed his share.

In fact, if not for Lebron, we do not even sniff the Finals as Wade was just bad against Chicago.


Spo is at least partly to blame for everything else concerning the Heat.

The 2011-2014 Miami Heat had to overcome the moron that is Spo. The only time Spo was worth a damn was early in 2012 when he implemented "space and pace" which led to us being about as dominate as our talent demands.

And of of course Spo's idiotic coaching is what led to us this season missing the playoffs entirely. This, despite being in the "worst conference ever" East.

I already replied to this garbage in another thread: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11613954&postcount=53

[305Baller]

I mean people all blame lebron (No surprise since its ISH), but don't seem to look at the staff of the heat during that series.

Lets look at the series:
Game 1-Did alright, heat started out bad but came back from a huge deficit led by lebron

2-Disgusting. The mavs came back from a huge deficit, and spo couldn't change the outcome of the game. I believe the heat had a 15 something lead in the 4th but lost it as Spo failed to adjust. He didn't think of doubling dirk which led to the game winner, and no timeouts for the heat resulting in a wade brick. :facepalm

3-almost blew it, lebron, wade and bosh all had decent games. Spo almost cost the game.

4-heat were up in the 4th, but blew the lead as the team lost control on defense.

5- defense was terrible. The mavs had open looks and rained 3s, which spo could not counter against.

6- couldn't go up against ricks' zone d and it cost the heat big time.

In short, he failed the heat and failed to adjust getting outcoached countless games against Carlisle. While i admit everyone on the heat wet the bed in the finals, Spo could have easily won with the heat with simple adjustments.


Failure as a coach.

Spoelstra got plenty of blame. So did Wade. LeBron also got plenty of the blame obviously.

[Gileraracer]

Because last time i checked LeBald thought he's the coach

[r15mohd]

I don't want to go that far and say that Lebron intentionally took a backseat so his pal Wade could shine.

If that's the case, Lebron is in some deep do-do. From possibly legally to definitely ethically.

However, as a Heat fan, unlike the moronic Cavs fans from 2009 and 2010, I refuse to go after the ONE constant on the Heat in 2011 who often times lead us in points, assists, rebounds, played the most minutes, was assigned the hardest match ups, played point guard, etc.

If Lebron found a way to overcome Wade against the Bulls, Wade should have figured out a way to overcome Lebron.

it wasn't intentional by Lebron, it was the game plan by Spo and staff. they felt Lebron controlling from the PG spot and allowing Wade to attack in his "Flash" essence would be the tell all. so there's no legal or ethical concern when the coaching strategy is what was carried out.

the issue I have with this is why Lebron didnt defy the strategy as he does now...maybe that stepping on the toe type deal that was felt throughout the whole season...but regardles, it is both sides to blame, Lebron's unwillingness to step up and then the Heat staff's pretty stupid game strategy for the Finals.

anyhoo...much good came from it. we saw a even more beastly Lebron from that summer on, Wade willingly gave up his fight for the 1st option role even after coming off a pretty good Finals and allowed Lebron to take full lead, and lead them to the promise land x2. we also saw the staple in which the Heat created for themselves, that suffocating defense and pretty EPIC run of a 27 game win streak a couple seasons after capped by another ring. without the loss in the 2011 Finals, I dont think a lot of this happens as the 1st option role issues carry over and Bosh is even more phased out than he already is.

i personally didnt expect the Heat to win in the 1st, surely get to the ECF and Finals at best because we saw how confused they looked throughout that inception season. having that failure under your belt isn't always a bad thing, the Heat used it as a fire to get better and win-out, unfortunately as Lebron got better Wade/Bosh broke down at the most important times, it seemed and ultimately dismantled the team past 2014.

[Lebronxrings]

it wasn't intentional by Lebron, it was the game plan by Spo and staff. they felt Lebron controlling from the PG spot and allowing Wade to attack in his "Flash" essence would be the tell all. so there's no legal or ethical concern when the coaching strategy is what was carried out.

the issue I have with this is why Lebron didnt defy the strategy as he does now...maybe that stepping on the toe type deal that was felt throughout the whole season...but regardles, it is both sides to blame, Lebron's unwillingness to step up and then the Heat staff's pretty stupid game strategy for the Finals.

anyhoo...much good came from it. we saw a even more beastly Lebron from that summer on, Wade willingly gave up his fight for the 1st option role even after coming off a pretty good Finals and allowed Lebron to take full lead, and lead them to the promise land x2. we also saw the staple in which the Heat created for themselves, that suffocating defense and pretty EPIC run of a 27 game win streak a couple seasons after capped by another ring. without the loss in the 2011 Finals, I dont think a lot of this happens as the 1st option role issues carry over and Bosh is even more phased out than he already is.

i personally didnt expect the Heat to win in the 1st, surely get to the ECF and Finals at best because we saw how confused they looked throughout that inception season. having that failure under your belt isn't always a bad thing, the Heat used it as a fire to get better and win-out, unfortunately as Lebron got better Wade/Bosh broke down at the most important times, it seemed and ultimately dismantled the team past 2014.
i blame this more on Spo. My gut feeling is Spo tried too hard to make Lebron something he isn't by turning him into only a primary point guard. Lebron became that and suddenly lost all focus on scoring. The next few years we then see a more attack mode lebron, who seemed to listen less to Spo. Perhaps this is why Lebron chooses to not listen to coaching staff as they attempt to "sabotage" his game. Only a theory.

[guy]

18 points, 7 reb, 7 assists is shying away? :wtf:

He took on the point guard role in the finals as chalmers was more of a spot up shooter and tertiary handler. Wade was the main scorer, lebron was the facilitator.

The **** :oldlol: ? 18/7/7 is a nice statline for someone like Luol Deng or Andre Iguodala, not the best player in the league. But I guess we should hold him to lower standards.

[aj1987]

Gotta take it further with these agenda- driven folks.

Lebron goes from beasting in 3 prior series against as good an opposition as the Mavs, to being ghost? He was reluctant to shoot and looked more to pass than even attack..hot potato-esque. Never can buy that lol.

Game plan was set, Wade was given a green light to prove himself one last time and it back fired. Simple as that. See above for added reasoning.

I agree with you on Spo, definitely lacking in his abilities to effectively coach...and we'll see more of that with a fully healthy squad this year who are surely championship capable. Will he have them prevail or will it expose him more :confused:

2011 falls on the coaching staff and star players, more to blame than just pointing at one sole aspect

And you pretend to be a Heat fan. Just admit it and get over with it, dude. You're a LeBron fan and you've NEVER actually been a fan of the Heat.

[PJR]

The fact of the matter is that Lebron was able to overcome the equal bad Wade in order to win the Bulls series. Wade was unable to do the same a round later.

Period. Dot. End of Discussion.


Actually, you're wrong.

LeBron wasn't able to 'overcome' shit.

This biggest difference and most important distinguishing factor between the Bulls series, and the Finals against the Mavs is that Chris Bosh played EXTREMELY well. Average 23/7 on 68% TS against Chicago. He was BY FAR the most efficient scorer in the series. He did not play nearly as well against Dallas.

If Wade had Bosh playing as well as he did against Chicago, the Heat would've probably won the Finals, despite Bran's epic collapse.

So save that bullshit narrative.

[PJR]

LeBron scored 8 points in game 4, b.

Eight.


And we're sitting here talking about Erik Spoelstra? Niqqa, please.

[Derka]

To be fair, he got zero credit for either of their wins. Why should he get the blame when they lose?

[Wade's Rings]

To be fair, he got zero credit for either of their wins. Why should he get the blame when they lose?

You got plenty of people saying he was the Heats best player in Game 1.

[HiphopRelated]

Because everyone knows Spo SUCKS at coaching. 100% of the blame is on him for 13-14. This idiot doesn't know how to build a team or fix what is wrong with one unless it falls into his lap (Whiteside).
Build the team in 13-14?

Didn't you see Lebron WANTED those decrepit parts? They followed him to Cleveland

I'm positive Riley had different views for the roleplayers he could bring in, but somebody likes his washed up shooters..

[HiphopRelated]

Let's see: During the Bulls series Lebron led the Heat in:

Points: 25.8
Assists: 6.6
Rebounds: 7.8
Steals: 2.4
Minutes: 45.2

Lebron was second in Blocks at 1.8.
Wade failed to led the Heat in any significant statistical category.

During the Mavs series Wade led the Heat in:

Points: 26.5
Blocks: 1.5

During that same series Lebron still managed to led the Heat in:

Rebounds: 7.2
Assists: 6.8
Steals: 1.7
Minutes: 43.6

If we are going to apply the same standards to superstar Wade as we do for superstar Lebron, Wade should have been able to overcome Lebron's drop in points considering that Lebron overcame Wade's drop in points against Chicago WHILE continuing to carry his team in all other significant categories.


But then again, this is ISH where absurd subjective criteria abounds.
LEbron was holding on to the ball and doing nothing with it vs the Mavs.

He wasn't getting out of the way, he was failing horribly.

Getting out of the way would be letting Wade do his thing. He still wanted to hold on to the ball.

I can't count how many times over the years Wade would get us on a run, some big lead in the 4th, might have a stat line like 30/5/5 and LEbron is at 20/6/7.

Then Lebron starts taking every bloody shot, maybe goes 3/10 with a ft here and there but finishes 32/7/8. Then we have to hear how Lebron lead the Heat to victory. NO he didn't the game was won 8 minutes ago....it was disgusting.

He owes Wade a ring, a Finals MVP and his solidified place among the GOATS

I don't give a damn about Spo that series

[Wade's Rings]

LEbron was holding on to the ball and doing nothing with it vs the Mavs.

He wasn't getting out of the way, he was failing horribly.

Getting out of the way would be letting Wade do his thing. He still wanted to hold on to the ball.

I can't count how many times over the years Wade would get us on a run, some big lead in the 4th, might have a stat line like 30/5/5 and LEbron is at 20/6/7.

Then Lebron starts taking every bloody shot, maybe goes 3/10 with a ft here and there but finishes 32/7/8. Then we have to hear how Lebron lead the Heat to victory. NO he didn't the game was won 8 minutes ago....it was disgusting.

He owes Wade a ring, a Finals MVP and his solidified place among the GOATS

I don't give a damn about Spo that series

:applause: :bowdown:

[FLDFSU]

Actually, you're wrong.

LeBron wasn't able to 'overcome' shit.

This biggest difference and most important distinguishing factor between the Bulls series, and the Finals against the Mavs is that Chris Bosh played EXTREMELY well. Average 23/7 on 68% TS against Chicago. He was BY FAR the most efficient scorer in the series. He did not play nearly as well against Dallas.

If Wade had Bosh playing as well as he did against Chicago, the Heat would've probably won the Finals, despite Bran's epic collapse.

So save that bullshit narrative.

Once again, please see my post above.

Lebron led the Heat, during the Bulls series, in EVERY single significant statistical category.

So whatever Bosh was contributing (and Bosh did indeed contribute in major ways) Lebron was contributing as much or more than Bosh during the Bulls series.

Put another way, Bosh did not lead the Heat in any significant statistical category in either the Bulls or Mavs series. Wade did not lead the Heat in any such category during the Bulls series. However, Lebron led the Heat in all such categories during the Bulls series, AND in 3/6 categories during the Mavs series.

Let's break it down:

Wade (vs Chicago) Lebron (vs Dallas)
Points 18.8 (40.5%) 17.8 (47.8%)
Rebounds 6.4 7.2
Assists 2.2 6.8
Steals 1.6 1.7
Blocks 1.2 0.5
Minutes 39.6 43.6

So if anything Wade was WORST in Chicago than Lebron was in Dallas.

As the biggest Wade fan and Heat fan, I felt as though Wade was every bit as good as Lebron. Lebron was just the "media" darling but Wade could absolutely go toe to toe with Lebron every night.

Unfortunately, 2011 proved I was wrong.

[Wade's Rings]

Once again, please see my post above.

Lebron led the Heat, during the Bulls series, in EVERY single significant statistical category.

So whatever Bosh was contributing (and Bosh did indeed contribute in major ways) Lebron was contributing as much or more than Bosh during the Bulls series.

Put another way, Bosh did not lead the Heat in any significant statistical category in either the Bulls or Mavs series. Wade did not lead the Heat in any such category during the Bulls series. However, Lebron led the Heat in all such categories during the Bulls series, AND in 3/6 categories during the Mavs series.

Let's break it down:

Wade (vs Chicago) Lebron (vs Dallas)
Points 18.8 (40.5%) 17.8 (47.8%)
Rebounds 6.4 7.2
Assists 2.2 6.8
Steals 1.6 1.7
Blocks 1.2 0.5
Minutes 39.6 43.6

So if anything Wade was WORST in Chicago than Lebron was in Dallas.

As the biggest Wade fan and Heat fan, I felt as though Wade was every bit as good as Lebron. Lebron was just the "media" darling but Wade could absolutely go toe to toe with Lebron every night.

Unfortunately, 2011 proved I was wrong.

Are you ever going to reply to my post or keep avoiding it? :oldlol:

[PJR]

Wade was not worse than LeBron.

Wade struggled shooting, but he did not lack aggressivness. That's why he went to the foul line more in the Chicago series, then LeBron did against Dallas.

He also did not have a game where he scored singled digits in a pivotal swing game 4. Wade's game 2 in Chicago was better than any game LeBron had against Dallas. And go watch Game 5, where Wade ignited that crazy comeback with the two 3 point plays.

Miss me with that nonsense. LeBron sucked in the Finals, and was worse.

Outscored by Jason Terry.
Too shook to post up JJ Barea
8 points.

[r15mohd]

And you pretend to be a Heat fan. Just admit it and get over with it, dude. You're a LeBron fan and you've NEVER actually been a fan of the Heat.


what's to pretend :confusedshrug: if you feel Spo was a good to great coach and did this Heat team best they could the 4yrs, then that's on you. you can "pretend" he was all this, but everyone saw and sees how inept he is. had Spo not forced the agenda on Wade being primary and Lebron being the facilitator all Final's long, we were on a 3peat but such was not the case, and for being such the Heat homer you claim you are (and not just a Wade homer), you'd of read the post-finals remarks by Spo indicating this. :rolleyes: let me guess, you missed this huh?

we'll see Spo's true worth this year with a really good squad under him once again...if he is not bringing this squad to a #4 spot or higher, something is up from a coaching aspect because the talent is certainly there (albeit healthy). anyhow he finishes 6 or lower with an overall healthy squad throughout the year, Riley needs to cut him and find a better suitor to lead going forward.

as for my initial notion you selectively quoted, it only further proves Spo's game-planning for the Finals mentioned above. can you explain how Lebron going from being outright beast for 3 playoff series to suddenly a backseat option come the Finals against the Mavs? not to mention the Bulls being that much greater than the Mavs defenisvely to not even warrant this? how about explaining why Wade reluctantly gave up the 1a/1b position to willingly turning it over to Lebron when Wade just came off one of his best playoff series? doesn't make much sense...probably to you tho, huh? the blame falls on the coaches for the the idiotic approach, and also the players. Lebron shouldn't have followed thru with the plan knowing it was costing the team and the title, Wade should have sought-ed out to involve Lebron more knowing more Lebron meant the likeliness of winning rather than losing.

but let's continue to play "pretend" to the reality of this, as you'd like :rolleyes:

btw...funny how you only quote me in this thread, when a couple other posters reference the same notion as me. :rolleyes: can I look forward to you following me around more, maybe make you my official stan? :lol

[FLDFSU]

Are you ever going to reply to my post or keep avoiding it? :oldlol:

I already indirectly replied to your post when I responded to other posters' comments. Lebron James (if anything) was better against Dallas, than Wade was against Chicago. And for good measure, Lebron was ALSO better in Chicago, than Wade was in Dallas.

Those are the facts. That is what the data bears out.

The fact of the matter is that Superstar Wade needed to lead the Heat in all significant statistical categories for Miami to overcome Dallas/Lebron. It didn't happened, therefore we lost.

Superstar Lebron was needed to lead the Heat in all significant statistical categories for Miami to overcome Chicago/Wade. It happened, therefore we won.

But this is only if we are applying the term "superstar" consistently. Of course, this is ISH, so we are not.

[PJR]

The fact of the matter is that Superstar Wade needed to lead the Heat in all significant statistical categories for Miami to overcome Dallas/Lebron. It didn't happened, therefore we lost.

Na.

He just needed LeBron to score more than 8 points in game 4, and they would've been up 3-1.

Keep pushing that garbage, though. Nobody believes you.

[FLDFSU]

LEbron was holding on to the ball and doing nothing with it vs the Mavs.

He wasn't getting out of the way, he was failing horribly.

Getting out of the way would be letting Wade do his thing. He still wanted to hold on to the ball.

I can't count how many times over the years Wade would get us on a run, some big lead in the 4th, might have a stat line like 30/5/5 and LEbron is at 20/6/7.

Then Lebron starts taking every bloody shot, maybe goes 3/10 with a ft here and there but finishes 32/7/8. Then we have to hear how Lebron lead the Heat to victory. NO he didn't the game was won 8 minutes ago....it was disgusting.

He owes Wade a ring, a Finals MVP and his solidified place among the GOATS

I don't give a damn about Spo that series

What? Despite playing about 30 more minutes (over the course of the series), Lebron had 18 less FG attempts and 30 less FT attempts than Wade.

Chris Bosh had 2 more FG attempts and 25 more FT attempts, while playing about 30 less minutes than Lebron.

So Lebron, at least in respect to Wade and Bosh, let both "do their thing."



Oh, and since Lebron kept getting in Wade's way "over the years," it is a good thing that Lebron left, thereby not "getting in the way" of Wade...

Pass me whatever you are smoking.

[aj1987]

what's to pretend :confusedshrug: if you feel Spo was a good to great coach and did this Heat team best they could the 4yrs, then that's on you. you can "pretend" he was all this, but everyone saw and sees how inept he is. had Spo not forced the agenda on Wade being primary and Lebron being the facilitator all Final's long, we were on a 3peat but such was not the case, and for being such the Heat homer you claim you are (and not just a Wade homer), you'd of read the post-finals remarks by Spo indicating this. :rolleyes: let me guess, you missed this huh?

we'll see Spo's true worth this year with a really good squad under him once again...if he is not bringing this squad to a #4 spot or higher, something is up from a coaching aspect because the talent is certainly there (albeit healthy). anyhow he finishes 6 or lower with an overall healthy squad throughout the year, Riley needs to cut him and find a better suitor to lead going forward.

as for my initial notion you selectively quoted, it only further proves Spo's game-planning for the Finals mentioned above. can you explain how Lebron going from being outright beast for 3 playoff series to suddenly a backseat option come the Finals against the Mavs? not to mention the Bulls being that much greater than the Mavs defenisvely to not even warrant this? how about explaining why Wade reluctantly gave up the 1a/1b position to willingly turning it over to Lebron when Wade just came off one of his best playoff series? doesn't make much sense...probably to you tho, huh? the blame falls on the coaches for the the idiotic approach, and also the players. Lebron shouldn't have followed thru with the plan knowing it was costing the team and the title, Wade should have sought-ed out to involve Lebron more knowing more Lebron meant the likeliness of winning rather than losing.

but let's continue to play "pretend" to the reality of this, as you'd like :rolleyes:

btw...funny how you only quote me in this thread, when a couple other posters reference the same notion as me. :rolleyes: can I look forward to you following me around more, maybe make you my official stan? :lol
Those other posters are LeTurd's. Just like you.

Funny how it's on Spo and Wade that LeBron scored 8 points in a pivotal game 4 of the Finals or when LeBron scored 11 points in the 4th quarters of the first 5 games. What you're actually saying is that LeBron pouted like a little bitch that he wasn't gonna win the FMVP and threw the series. Is that what you're saying? What happened in the ECSF, when Wade was dominating and as was LeBron? Oh wait, it doesn't fit your agenda.

I haven't seen you give Wade even once. All you do is ride LeBron's D and hate on Wade.

[RRR3]

Both sides are overreacting.

LeBron blew it in 2011, but he redeemed himself.

/thread

[Trollsmasher]

Spo is a terrible coach. Relegated LeBron to 3rd option to prove that he and his boy Wade can do it their way and it backfired hilariously

After those Finals LeBron finally took over the franchise completly, saved Spo's job for another decade and brought in 2 titles essentially by himself.

People praise Spo for devising small ball, but it only came out of neccesity when Bosh went down against the Pacers (he was starting Bosh and Haslem for an entire season before that) and only worked thanks to LeBron.

Moral lesson? Lebronball > pinoy coaching

[HiphopRelated]

Once again, please see my post above.

Lebron led the Heat, during the Bulls series, in EVERY single significant statistical category.

So whatever Bosh was contributing (and Bosh did indeed contribute in major ways) Lebron was contributing as much or more than Bosh during the Bulls series.

Put another way, Bosh did not lead the Heat in any significant statistical category in either the Bulls or Mavs series. Wade did not lead the Heat in any such category during the Bulls series. However, Lebron led the Heat in all such categories during the Bulls series, AND in 3/6 categories during the Mavs series.

Let's break it down:

Wade (vs Chicago) Lebron (vs Dallas)
Points 18.8 (40.5%) 17.8 (47.8%)
Rebounds 6.4 7.2
Assists 2.2 6.8
Steals 1.6 1.7
Blocks 1.2 0.5
Minutes 39.6 43.6

So if anything Wade was WORST in Chicago than Lebron was in Dallas.

As the biggest Wade fan and Heat fan, I felt as though Wade was every bit as good as Lebron. Lebron was just the "media" darling but Wade could absolutely go toe to toe with Lebron every night.

Unfortunately, 2011 proved I was wrong.
Show me a game like this from Lebron in the Finals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgLMI784M4E

They destroyed Boston, and could have done the same to Dallas, but Wade winning Finals MVP wasn't in Lebron's best interest. There, I said it

[Wade's Rings]

I already indirectly replied to your post when I responded to other posters' comments. Lebron James (if anything) was better against Dallas, than Wade was against Chicago. And for good measure, Lebron was ALSO better in Chicago, than Wade was in Dallas.

No you didn't. You literally posted stats. Wade was clutch down the stretch of games and Played Elite Defense. Lebron didn't do either of these things. Keep deflecting :oldlol:


Those are the facts. That is what the data bears out.

It's also a fact Wade played great down the stretch and played Elite Defense while Lebron didn't. Another fact is Bron had way more help in the Bulls Series than Wade had against Dallas.


The fact of the matter is that Superstar Wade needed to lead the Heat in all significant statistical categories for Miami to overcome Dallas/Lebron. It didn't happened, therefore we lost.

This is an absolute lie. Bron didn't lead the Heat in all statistical categories vs the Bulls and we won :confusedshrug: Also, Wade didn't have the help Bron did so his assists weren't going to skyrocket. He was only off leading rebounds by .3.


Superstar Lebron was needed to lead the Heat in all significant statistical categories for Miami to overcome Chicago/Wade. It happened, therefore we won.

He didn't lead the Heat in FG% :confusedshrug: He also had Wade coming through down the stretch and playing elite defense. Bron didn't do any of this.


But this is only if we are applying the term "superstar" consistently. Of course, this is ISH, so we are not.

You used raw stats to say Bron's Finals > Wade's ECF. Using Raw stats Bron was better than Wade in the Finals, right? So why aren't you blaming him for coming up short as the man?

EDIT: You still haven't acknowledged my post directly or refuted anything I posted :roll:

[Wade's Rings]

Both sides are overreacting.

LeBron blew it in 2011, but he redeemed himself.

/thread

Yes, HIMSELF. He got 2 Finals MVPs, 2 Titles. His All-Time rank went up. What about Wade? Wade only got 2 sidekick Titles and MAYBE moved a few spots up the All-time list.

[imdaman99]

Jeez Wade guys are humiliating the Lebron stans posing as Heat fans :oldlol:

Wade has 1 ring without Lebron, while Lebron has none without Wade. But he was a bigger reason why the Heat won those 2. Why can't we all just love each other :cheers:

I wish the Knicks had 1 ring in my lifetime... :(

[Wade's Rings]

Funny how it's on Spo and Wade that LeBron scored 8 points in a pivotal game 4 of the Finals or when LeBron scored 11 points in the 4th quarters of the first 5 games.

Wade actually spoon-fed Bron 2 of his 8 pts in that Game 4 and Gave Bron 2 of his 11 Points in the 1st 5 Games.

[FLDFSU]

what's to pretend :confusedshrug: if you feel Spo was a good to great coach and did this Heat team best they could the 4yrs, then that's on you. you can "pretend" he was all this, but everyone saw and sees how inept he is. had Spo not forced the agenda on Wade being primary and Lebron being the facilitator all Final's long, we were on a 3peat but such was not the case, and for being such the Heat homer you claim you are (and not just a Wade homer), you'd of read the post-finals remarks by Spo indicating this. :rolleyes: let me guess, you missed this huh?

we'll see Spo's true worth this year with a really good squad under him once again...if he is not bringing this squad to a #4 spot or higher, something is up from a coaching aspect because the talent is certainly there (albeit healthy). anyhow he finishes 6 or lower with an overall healthy squad throughout the year, Riley needs to cut him and find a better suitor to lead going forward.


No way in the world Spo should get a pass for just getting to the 4th seed. Remember, according to ISH, the East is the weakest conference of all time.

If Spo was 1/10 the coach ISH proclaims him to be, and the East was 1/10 as bad they claim it to be, there is a zero percent chance we miss the playoffs last year. We know how that turned out.

Spo needs to get us back to the Finals.

[FLDFSU]

No you didn't. You literally posted stats. Wade was clutch down the stretch of games and Played Elite Defense. Lebron didn't do either of these things. Keep deflecting :oldlol:

Good. We agree. Over the course of the series, on average, Lebron and Wade was equally bad in the ECF and the Finals.

I have no clue why you are giving me situational claims that are not backed up with data/stats. Terms such as "clutch" and "down the stretch" and "played elite defense" are subjective terms which you have not substantiated with any evidence.

My assertion was that superstar L. James was able to overcome superstar D. Wade against Chicago. While James was the single biggest letdown and played far below what he is capable against Dallas, it was no different than Wade just the series prior. If superstar James was capable, so should superstar Wade, if we are being consistent.

As a Heat fan, I appreciate that without James, who DID EVERYTHING in Chicago, the Heat may very well have been swept by the Bulls, and therefore would not have even been in the Finals.


It's also a fact Wade played great down the stretch and played Elite Defense while Lebron didn't. Another fact is Bron had way more help in the Bulls Series than Wade had against Dallas.

He had "way more help" yet led the Heat in every major statistical category.

BTW, Wade got more help than Lebron did against Chicago. Here, I will PROVIDE DATA:

Wade got 65.8 points, 31.5 rebounds, 14.3 assists, 6.5 steals, and 3 blocks from his teammates.

Lebron got 63.6 points, 30.8 rebounds, 8 assists, 5.4 steals, and 5.8 blocks from his teammates.

Looks like Wade (just slightly) got more help from the Heat vs Dallas, than Lebron vs Chicago


This is an absolute lie. Bron didn't lead the Heat in all statistical categories vs the Bulls and we won :confusedshrug: Also, Wade didn't have the help Bron did so his assists weren't going to skyrocket. He was only off leading rebounds by .3.

All "significant" statistical categories. And see my above comments. And the Heat score LESS in the Bulls series than the Dallas series so your comment about Wade's assists is invalid: 89.4 vs. 94.7.


He didn't lead the Heat in FG% :confusedshrug: He also had Wade coming through down the stretch and playing elite defense. Bron didn't do any of this.

Okay. Lebron didn't lead us in FG%. Very good. And see my previous comments concerning "down the stretch" and "playing elite defense."

If you have some stats for these assertions, please share.


You used raw stats to say Bron's Finals > Wade's ECF. Using Raw stats Bron was better than Wade in the Finals, right? So why aren't you blaming him for coming up short as the man?

No. Lebron was not better than Wade in the Mavs series. The stats nor any of my assertions indicate otherwise.

But states DO bear out that Wade was equally (at best) as bad as Lebron in Chicago.


EDIT: You still haven't acknowledged my post directly or refuted anything I posted :roll:

Directly refuted...

[Wade's Rings]

I have no clue why you are giving me situational claims that are not backed up with data/stats. Terms such as "clutch" and "down the stretch" and "played elite defense" are subjective terms which you have not substantiated with any evidence.

I gave you the numbers, an article, and video proof: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11613954&postcount=53 Maybe if you read the post instead of avoiding it you wouldn't have made this claim :oldlol:


My assertion was that superstar L. James was able to overcome superstar D. Wade against Chicago. While James was the single biggest letdown and played far below what he is capable against Dallas, it was no different than Wade just the series prior. If superstar James was capable, so should superstar Wade, if we are being consistent.

Bosh gave Bron 24pts on 68% TS and shooting 61% from the field. Bosh gave Wade 19pts on 49% TS and shooting 41% from the field. Bron had more help than Wade.


As a Heat fan, I appreciate that without James, who DID EVERYTHING in Chicago, the Heat may very well have been swept by the Bulls, and therefore would not have even been in the Finals.

Dude had Bosh giving him 24 pts on 68% TS, Wade with Great Defense and Clutch Play and he did everything :oldlol:


He had "way more help" yet led the Heat in every major statistical category.

BTW, Wade got more help than Lebron did against Chicago. Here, I will PROVIDE DATA:

Wade got 65.8 points, 31.5 rebounds, 14.3 assists, 6.5 steals, and 3 blocks from his teammates.

Lebron got 63.6 points, 30.8 rebounds, 8 assists, 5.4 steals, and 5.8 blocks from his teammates.

Looks like Wade (just slightly) got more help from the Heat vs Dallas, than Lebron vs Chicago

So because he lead the Heat almost every Raw Stat he didn't have help? :oldlol: Dallas was a worse Defensive Team so Wade getting more Points and Assists isn't shocking. Also, those numbers don't even show awful Bron was down the stretch of Games and how awful the Defense was.


All "significant" statistical categories. And see my above comments. And the Heat score LESS in the Bulls series than the Dallas series so your comment about Wade's assists is invalid: 89.4 vs. 94.7.

:wtf: I said if Wade had teammates hitting more shots than he could've gotten more Assists than Bron in the Dallas Series. Why are you bringing up total team assists? BTW Wade played on average 4 less minutes than Bron in the 2011 Finals & in ECF he played 40 while Bron played 43 in the Finals.


If you have some stats for these assertions, please share.

Game 3 4th Quarter- 4pts

Game 4th Quarter & OT- 6pts, 1stl, 3blks

Game 5 4th Quarter- 9pts(4 point play to cut the lead from 7 to 3), 1stl



No. Lebron was not better than Wade in the Mavs series. The stats nor any of my assertions indicate otherwise.

You used raw stats to say 2011 Finals Bron > 2011 ECF Wade...now the raw stats don't mean Bron was better than Wade in the 2011 Finals :lol


But states DO bear out that Wade was equally (at best) as bad as Lebron in Chicago.

Stats. If you watched the game with you wouldn't be saying this :facepalm



Directly refuted...

I was referring to my original post.

[guy]

All this discussion over a series as simple as the fact that Lebron just played like the biggest bitch in NBA history. Hilarious :oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

All this discussion over a series as simple as the fact that Lebron just played like the biggest bitch in NBA history. Hilarious :oldlol:

Lol, it's at least entertaining to see LeBron stans try to spin that series

[Bandito]

Haven't read this thread and I know it's full of excuses and lebron stans eating their idols 2011 feces like always. Am I right?

[HiphopRelated]

No way in the world Spo should get a pass for just getting to the 4th seed. Remember, according to ISH, the East is the weakest conference of all time.

If Spo was 1/10 the coach ISH proclaims him to be, and the East was 1/10 as bad they claim it to be, there is a zero percent chance we miss the playoffs last year. We know how that turned out.

Spo needs to get us back to the Finals.
Even with all the injuries, they were still in the playoffs 'till Whiteside hurt his hand and were talking about chasing the 6th seed..

You're out here pretending to be a Heat fan. Wade was getting multiple switches onto PF through some of the last couple games. What was going to happen? The bigman rotation was Haslem

Team got hit with a final death blow and couldn't get over the hump.

We'll see how this year goes, last year was a throwaway

[FLDFSU]

Even with all the injuries, they were still in the playoffs 'till Whiteside hurt his hand and were talking about chasing the 6th seed..

You're out here pretending to be a Heat fan. Wade was getting multiple switches onto PF through some of the last couple games. What was going to happen? The bigman rotation was Haslem

Team got hit with a final death blow and couldn't get over the hump.

We'll see how this year goes, last year was a throwaway

I don't want to hear excuses for missing the playoffs. At no point last year did we even look like an average NBA team. Outside of the first 10 games, I am not sure we even had a .500 or above record.

Last year was pathetic. And anyone that gives Spo a pass because of injuries is delusional. Especially considering Boston, New Jersey, and Milwaukee all made the tournament.

It is all the more alarming because Spo has proven he cannot develop talent or make existing talent better. Not sure a single player under Spo is a better basketball player because of him.

[r15mohd]

Those other posters are LeTurd's. Just like you.

great rebuttal! :rolleyes:


Funny how it's on Spo and Wade that LeBron scored 8 points in a pivotal game 4 of the Finals or when LeBron scored 11 points in the 4th quarters of the first 5 games. What you're actually saying is that LeBron pouted like a little bitch that he wasn't gonna win the FMVP and threw the series. Is that what you're saying? What happened in the ECSF, when Wade was dominating and as was LeBron? Oh wait, it doesn't fit your agenda.

never said it was on Spo and Wade only, there you go with the bs again. it started with Spo, and all the stars INCLUDING LEBRON are at fault, as he should of stepped up knowing what was on the line.

how CONVENIENT of you to miss me saying this then revert to the "LeTurd" agenda, yet always in some Lebron thread defending him. are you really this stupid? :facepalm


I haven't seen you give Wade even once. All you do is ride LeBron's D and hate on Wade.

where haven't I given him his dues...he gets it from his rook all up until the Big3 run. you're just mad that I don't see him worth the coin you do over the recent years where he's been injured and missing more times than not, 2013 and 2014 Finals especially. but you're his stan and thats whatever, so the ass-hurt will always be around you.

everyone is basically in agreement he's declined heavily but you, yet thinking he should be paid like a 1st rate star. :no: he's lost that leverage...he and Bosh certainly didn't pull their weight during those 4 years. Bosh got lucky with the pay and that's just a blunder by the Heat mgmt in being desperate last summer, but to gift Wade a huge contract is stupid, and very glad he got this 1-yr max so he can quit the whining and this "lyfe" b/s he puts up when come next year, when he doesnt get offered anything high from the Heat, it's this summer's same drama all over again with his standoff and looking for the better suitor. can he re-emerge? it would be great to see...but reality has shown different 4yrs downsloping now.

[r15mohd]

No way in the world Spo should get a pass for just getting to the 4th seed. Remember, according to ISH, the East is the weakest conference of all time.

If Spo was 1/10 the coach ISH proclaims him to be, and the East was 1/10 as bad they claim it to be, there is a zero percent chance we miss the playoffs last year. We know how that turned out.

Spo needs to get us back to the Finals.

we certainly have a squad that can make a run for the Finals but I just don't see the Heat advancing against Lebron and a healthier/younger Cavs squad. so definitely Finals aspirations, but reality is reality unless unforeseen circumstances happen to get us by...Wade re-emerging, Whiteside doing Wilt-like wonders, Bosh becoming a consistent impact, Dragic staying on course with his Suns' days...and even a bit of misfortune from the Cavs ends to benefit the Heat.

if the Heat finish top4, Spo will get another pass as his stance would be bringing back a non-playoff team to full contention and competing for likely the ECF bout, minimum. so Riley will stay true with him...now if we chase big names next summer, will those superstars be OK with Spo running the team after seeing this run? :confusedshrug:

if the Heat wet the bed, clear out the coaching staff and bring in a tenured guy (Thibs!!!) to move forward. chase that superstar and hope the Wade drama doesnt come back next summer when he is seeking another big contract...let him walk if he is

[aj1987]

never said it was on Spo and Wade only, there you go with the bs again. it started with Spo, and all the stars INCLUDING LEBRON are at fault, as he should of stepped up knowing what was on the line.

how CONVENIENT of you to miss me saying this then revert to the "LeTurd" agenda, yet always in some Lebron thread defending him. are you really this stupid? :facepalm
I'm gonna have to make you reread you own posts? :facepalm

As much as I support LeBron, I do blame him on his shortcomings, unlike you.


Gotta take it further with these agenda- driven folks.

Lebron goes from beasting in 3 prior series against as good an opposition as the Mavs, to being ghost? He was reluctant to shoot and looked more to pass than even attack..hot potato-esque. Never can buy that lol.

Game plan was set, Wade was given a green light to prove himself one last time and it back fired. Simple as that. See above for added reasoning.

You were basically agreeing with a KNOWN LeBron stan and saying that the reason why LeBron shit the bed was because of Wade and Spo. No blame goes to LeBron for choking his ass off though. It was because Spo and Wade conspired to give Wade one last change at "glory". :facepalm

Also from my previous post:

Funny how it's on Spo and Wade that LeBron scored 8 points in a pivotal game 4 of the Finals or when LeBron scored 11 points in the 4th quarters of the first 5 games. What you're actually saying is that LeBron pouted like a little bitch that he wasn't gonna win the FMVP and threw the series. Is that what you're saying? What happened in the ECSF, when Wade was dominating and as was LeBron? Oh wait, it doesn't fit your agenda.


I agree with you on Spo, definitely lacking in his abilities to effectively coach...and we'll see more of that with a fully healthy squad this year who are surely championship capable. Will he have them prevail or will it expose him more :confused:

2011 falls on the coaching staff and star players, more to blame than just pointing at one sole aspect

Again, you fail you blame LeBron DIRECTLY once again and blame the Coach and indirectly Wade ("star players").

Spo didn't make LeBron miss the majority of the shots he took. Spo didn't make him LeBron score an incredible 8 points in the pivotal game 4. Not Spo's fault that LeBron scored 11 points in the 4th q's of the first 5 games. 11 points in 60 minutes of game time. 18 points in 72 minutes if you include game 6. That's basically 9 PPG over 2 36 MPG games.

And no. Spo is an average coach at best, but the '11 Finals loss is ENTIRELY on LeBron.


where haven't I given him his dues...he gets it from his rook all up until the Big3 run. you're just mad that I don't see him worth the coin you do over the recent years where he's been injured and missing more times than not, 2013 and 2014 Finals especially. but you're his stan and thats whatever, so the ass-hurt will always be around you.

everyone is basically in agreement he's declined heavily but you, yet thinking he should be paid like a 1st rate star. :no: he's lost that leverage...he and Bosh certainly didn't pull their weight during those 4 years. Bosh got lucky with the pay and that's just a blunder by the Heat mgmt in being desperate last summer, but to gift Wade a huge contract is stupid, and very glad he got this 1-yr max so he can quit the whining and this "lyfe" b/s he puts up when come next year, when he doesnt get offered anything high from the Heat, it's this summer's same drama all over again with his standoff and looking for the better suitor. can he re-emerge? it would be great to see...but reality has shown different 4yrs downsloping now.
Why the **** are you bringing up money? I never said Wade was a superstar the past couple of years or that he deserved over $20M a year. I've always maintained that he should make ~$15M or less a year. You, however, are too ****ing stupid to understand the new salary cap which is gonna be in effect very soon and are also too stupid to understand SIMPLE english. Seriously, go back and read that thread again. You basically ignore all arguments and repeat you inane "arguments". That's probably why I basically copy+paste most of my posts from earlier ones, when it comes your dumbass.

Again, this is not about the money he makes. I've probably seen ~2/3rd's of your posts and most of them are either you riding LeBron like his side bitch or trying to put down anyone buy LeBron.

[HiphopRelated]

we certainly have a squad that can make a run for the Finals but I just don't see the Heat advancing against Lebron and a healthier/younger Cavs squad. so definitely Finals aspirations, but reality is reality unless unforeseen circumstances happen to get us by...Wade re-emerging, Whiteside doing Wilt-like wonders, Bosh becoming a consistent impact, Dragic staying on course with his Suns' days...and even a bit of misfortune from the Cavs ends to benefit the Heat.

if the Heat finish top4, Spo will get another pass as his stance would be bringing back a non-playoff team to full contention and competing for likely the ECF bout, minimum. so Riley will stay true with him...now if we chase big names next summer, will those superstars be OK with Spo running the team after seeing this run? :confusedshrug:

if the Heat wet the bed, clear out the coaching staff and bring in a tenured guy (Thibs!!!) to move forward. chase that superstar and hope the Wade drama doesnt come back next summer when he is seeking another big contract...let him walk if he is
Nobody wants to play for Thibs

The most they would do is move somebody up like Fizdale

[riseagainst]

It's not really his fault that the best player on his team was underperforming. What do you expect him to do? Take LeBron out in the 4th quarter? He'd probably be more scrutinized for doing that.

bran stans probably hoped that he'd been taken out so they wouldnt have to deal with the 4th quarter choke jokes.

[Papaya Petee]

Thread title "2011 NBA Finals" FLDFSU and that other retard "well, well, well, Wade wasn't good in the ECF.

Are you kidding me :roll: ?
Lebron let Wade score and he purposely took a back seat? :roll: because aside from the 2011 Finals we've EVER seen Lebron do that :rolleyes:

Here are the facts
- Dallas was a superior team to Chicago in every way possible.
- LeBron dissapeared in EVERY 4th quarter of the series.
- Bosh contributed much more in the ECF compared to the finals.
- Wade showed up in 4th quarters and clutch situations in the Chicago series.
- Wade played superior defense in the ECF compared to Lebron in the finals.

Its Spoelstras fault that LeBron scored 8 points in the most important game of the series? Heat go up 3-1 that series is over. Even if he was "deferring" to Wade and becoming the 2nd option, 8 points, really?

Its was Spoelstras fault that when the Heat opened up a 15 point lead in game after Wade hit a 3 and was unstoppable (36 points with about 7 minutes left in the game) Lebron completely took the ball out of Wade's hands and started bricking every shot allowing Dallas to make a comeback? 2-0 going into Dallas vs 1-1.

It was Spoelstras fault that JJ Barea and Jason Terry were lighting up Lebron on the court? Terry hitting 3s in his face down the stretch in a HUGE game 5. It was Spoelstras fault that an old washed up Marion was humiliating Lebron talking shit to him on every possession?

That series wasn't on Spo. It was 100% on Lebron. Aside from game 1 and I guess game 6 (when Wade was injured) Lebron was terrible. Numbers might sound decent, but he was beyond bad. Stop trying to downplay Wade in ECF to justify Lebrons terrible finals. Stop trying to blame the finals on Wade :roll: :wtf: and now stop trying to put it on Spo. Spo isn't the best coach, average at best, but 2011 isn't on him, its on Lebron.

[Wade's Rings]

Thread title "2011 NBA Finals" FLDFSU and that other retard "well, well, well, Wade wasn't good in the ECF.

Are you kidding me :roll: ?
Lebron let Wade score and he purposely took a back seat? :roll: because aside from the 2011 Finals we've EVER seen Lebron do that :rolleyes:

Here are the facts
- Dallas was a superior team to Chicago in every way possible.
- LeBron dissapeared in EVERY 4th quarter of the series.
- Bosh contributed much more in the ECF compared to the finals.
- Wade showed up in 4th quarters and clutch situations in the Chicago series.
- Wade played superior defense in the ECF compared to Lebron in the finals.

Its Spoelstras fault that LeBron scored 8 points in the most important game of the series? Heat go up 3-1 that series is over. Even if he was "deferring" to Wade and becoming the 2nd option, 8 points, really?

Its was Spoelstras fault that when the Heat opened up a 15 point lead in game after Wade hit a 3 and was unstoppable (36 points with about 7 minutes left in the game) Lebron completely took the ball out of Wade's hands and started bricking every shot allowing Dallas to make a comeback? 2-0 going into Dallas vs 1-1.

It was Spoelstras fault that JJ Barea and Jason Terry were lighting up Lebron on the court? Terry hitting 3s in his face down the stretch in a HUGE game 5. It was Spoelstras fault that an old washed up Marion was humiliating Lebron talking shit to him on every possession?

That series wasn't on Spo. It was 100% on Lebron. Aside from game 1 and I guess game 6 (when Wade was injured) Lebron was terrible. Numbers might sound decent, but he was beyond bad. Stop trying to downplay Wade in ECF to justify Lebrons terrible finals. Stop trying to blame the finals on Wade :roll: :wtf: and now stop trying to put it on Spo. Spo isn't the best coach, average at best, but 2011 isn't on him, its on Lebron.

:applause: :applause:

[Magic 32]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs2/1985728_o.gif

[HiphopRelated]

Thread title "2011 NBA Finals" FLDFSU and that other retard "well, well, well, Wade wasn't good in the ECF.

Are you kidding me :roll: ?
Lebron let Wade score and he purposely took a back seat? :roll: because aside from the 2011 Finals we've EVER seen Lebron do that :rolleyes:

Here are the facts
- Dallas was a superior team to Chicago in every way possible.
- LeBron dissapeared in EVERY 4th quarter of the series.
- Bosh contributed much more in the ECF compared to the finals.
- Wade showed up in 4th quarters and clutch situations in the Chicago series.
- Wade played superior defense in the ECF compared to Lebron in the finals.

Its Spoelstras fault that LeBron scored 8 points in the most important game of the series? Heat go up 3-1 that series is over. Even if he was "deferring" to Wade and becoming the 2nd option, 8 points, really?

Its was Spoelstras fault that when the Heat opened up a 15 point lead in game after Wade hit a 3 and was unstoppable (36 points with about 7 minutes left in the game) Lebron completely took the ball out of Wade's hands and started bricking every shot allowing Dallas to make a comeback? 2-0 going into Dallas vs 1-1.

It was Spoelstras fault that JJ Barea and Jason Terry were lighting up Lebron on the court? Terry hitting 3s in his face down the stretch in a HUGE game 5. It was Spoelstras fault that an old washed up Marion was humiliating Lebron talking shit to him on every possession?

That series wasn't on Spo. It was 100% on Lebron. Aside from game 1 and I guess game 6 (when Wade was injured) Lebron was terrible. Numbers might sound decent, but he was beyond bad. Stop trying to downplay Wade in ECF to justify Lebrons terrible finals. Stop trying to blame the finals on Wade :roll: :wtf: and now stop trying to put it on Spo. Spo isn't the best coach, average at best, but 2011 isn't on him, its on Lebron.
I love how th ECSF completely shits on their entire theory because clearly both could dominate together efficiently just 2 rounds earlier vs arguably a better team

[Papaya Petee]

I love how th ECSF completely shits on their entire theory because clearly both could dominate together efficiently just 2 rounds earlier vs arguably a better team
Exactly, somehow Wade was able to average 30/7/5 and LeBron 28/8/4 vs Boston.... we can even look at 2012 series vs Pacers and OKC to an extent and see the same thing.

Wade just simply got cold vs Chicago but still played his heart out played defense and came up clutch while Bosh was balling out of his mind.

LeBron vs Dallas dissapeared, checked himself out, couldn't stand to see Wade be FMVP, provided 0 help in the 4th, and couldn't guard a chair, while Boshes production went down as well.

Simple as that, don't blame this shit on Spo.

[PJR]

I love how th ECSF completely shits on their entire theory because clearly both could dominate together efficiently just 2 rounds earlier vs arguably a better team

I've spammed this point numerous times to Bran stans, and they never have a retort. :oldlol:

Clowns. All of them.

[Rose'sACL]

Exactly, somehow Wade was able to average 30/7/5 and LeBron 28/8/4 vs Boston.... we can even look at 2012 series vs Pacers and OKC to an extent and see the same thing.

Wade just simply got cold vs Chicago but still played his heart out played defense and came up clutch while Bosh was balling out of his mind.

LeBron vs Dallas dissapeared, checked himself out, couldn't stand to see Wade be FMVP, provided 0 help in the 4th, and couldn't guard a chair, while Boshes production went down as well.

Simple as that, don't blame this shit on Spo.
why do you believe that lebron played bad because he couldn't stand to see wade win fmvp?
lebron could have played 2 good games by his standards and he would be fmvp of that series so lebron played badly because he played badly. no other reason.

[FLDFSU]

we certainly have a squad that can make a run for the Finals but I just don't see the Heat advancing against Lebron and a healthier/younger Cavs squad. so definitely Finals aspirations, but reality is reality unless unforeseen circumstances happen to get us by...Wade re-emerging, Whiteside doing Wilt-like wonders, Bosh becoming a consistent impact, Dragic staying on course with his Suns' days...and even a bit of misfortune from the Cavs ends to benefit the Heat.

if the Heat finish top4, Spo will get another pass as his stance would be bringing back a non-playoff team to full contention and competing for likely the ECF bout, minimum. so Riley will stay true with him...now if we chase big names next summer, will those superstars be OK with Spo running the team after seeing this run? :confusedshrug:

if the Heat wet the bed, clear out the coaching staff and bring in a tenured guy (Thibs!!!) to move forward. chase that superstar and hope the Wade drama doesnt come back next summer when he is seeking another big contract...let him walk if he is

That is the disheartening thing...I cry to think what a Thibs, who I am guessing will be at home studying film this season, would do with a roster that we have. We would be title contenders...

Instead, we have Spo, and we are liable to be fighting for a playoff spot.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Because it was very clearly LeBron's fault. He came up incredibly small in that series. Those Miami teams always won in spite of Spo. They were just too talented.

[FLDFSU]

Because it was very clearly LeBron's fault. He came up incredibly small in that series. Those Miami teams always won in spite of Spo. They were just too talented.

I agree. Which is why Spo is at least partly to blame (once again, this does not excuse Lebron for 2011).

How you the damn head coach and it is common knowledge that the team has to overcome you in order to win?

The only time Spo was even helpful was in 2010 (given the near absence of talent his strategy of slow pace and limited possession made sense) and the early part of 2012 (we he tried to introduce "pace and space")...

Outside of that Spo has been a net negative: Spo shoulders blame for not the Dallas series in 2011.

-----------------------------------------------------------

And when you say we were "just too talented" you mean after 2011, right? Because the Heat was not even picked to come out of the Eastern Conference in 2011...Boston was...LA was picked to win their 3rd ring.

[SouBeachTalents]

How has this thread reached 8 pages?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FuYJ1U2YZ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kKxtSQa-4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFe8KUEQdn4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL3Kz3DD1uQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHtuQIJ1F1U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyPJhn-pnNo

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg

[FLDFSU]

Its was Spoelstras fault that when the Heat opened up a 15 point lead in game after Wade hit a 3 and was unstoppable (36 points with about 7 minutes left in the game) Lebron completely took the ball out of Wade's hands and started bricking every shot allowing Dallas to make a comeback? 2-0 going into Dallas vs 1-1.

The very next shot the Heat put up, after Wade's 3 pointer to make it 15, was another 3 point attempted... by one D. Wade...

The next shot after that was a missed 3 by Chamler...

The Heat then calls a full timeout...

Wade then takes (and misses) another two 3 point shots, including the last shot of the game...

Lebron during this stretch takes 4 total shots.

So we have:

Lebron: 4 shots (made free throws)
Wade: 3 shots (including the shots immediately after taking the 15 point lead and the last shot)
Chalmers/Bosh: 5 shots (one made 3 pointer)

How this leads one to the bolded assertion...the world will never know...but this is ISH...

[Wade's Rings]

why do you believe that lebron played bad because he couldn't stand to see wade win fmvp?
lebron could have played 2 good games by his standards and he would be fmvp of that series so lebron played badly because he played badly. no other reason.

In Game 2 after Wade puts the Heat up 15, Bron hijacks the Offense and lets the Heat blow the lead and the Game.

In Game 4 with a chance to go up 3-1 Bron has 8pts. 0 4th Quarter Points. He had 2pts come off a spoonfed layup from Qade & another 2 off an Infamous flop. This guy created 4pts for himself the whole Game.

In Game 5 after Wade puts the Heat up 4 with about 4 minutes left he holds the Ball for 4 Straight Possessions. In those 4 Possessions he had 2 missed jumpers over 38yr old Kidd and 5'9 Barrea & 2 Turnovers. The Heat lose momentum and blow the lead.

Every chance the Heat had to seal the Game, hold the lead, make the lead larger or seal the Series he failed miserably. Looks like sabotage to me.

BTW Bron wasn't impacting the Series like Wade was even if he had 2 Good "Bron Games". Even in Game 1(what you would consider Good for Bron) Wade closed out the Game.

[Rose'sACL]

In Game 2 after Wade puts the Heat up 15, Bron hijacks the Offense and lets the Heat blow the lead and the Game.

In Game 4 with a chance to go up 3-1 Bron has 8pts. 0 4th Quarter Points. He had 2pts come off a spoonfed layup from Qade & another 2 off an Infamous flop. This guy created 4pts for himself the whole Game.

In Game 5 after Wade puts the Heat up 4 with about 4 minutes left he holds the Ball for 4 Straight Possessions. In those 4 Possessions he had 2 missed jumpers over 38yr old Kidd and 5'9 Barrea & 2 Turnovers. The Heat lose momentum and blow the lead.

Every chance the Heat had to seal the Game, hold the lead, make the lead larger or seal the Series he failed miserably. Looks like sabotage to me.

BTW Bron wasn't impacting the Series like Wade was even if he had 2 Good "Bron Games". Even in Game 1(what you would consider Good for Bron) Wade closed out the Game.
lol. everyone agrees that mj is better than lebron but people keep pushing it further for some reason and now that everyone agrees that lebron choked in 2011, we have a wade stan who thinks that lebron didn't let wade and bosh do their thing because of taking too many shots.
this is comedy. lebron choked because he was afraid of taking shots. you are thinking of kobe in 2004 finals. that was the other kind of choking when you take too many shots because you are afraid to admit that you are not the best player on the team.

[97 bulls]

It takes a team to win and a team to lose. Wades defense could've been better. I mean those were guards that were killing the Heat. James could've been more aggresive etc. To blame one person is foolish.

[Papaya Petee]

why do you believe that lebron played bad because he couldn't stand to see wade win fmvp?
lebron could have played 2 good games by his standards and he would be fmvp of that series so lebron played badly because he played badly. no other reason.

I don't believe that's the main reason, but it had a lot to do with it. Imagine the start of the Big 3. Lebron back to back MVP winner, all about his stats, moves to Miami to play with Wade and wins the first title and loses the FMVP. Would of taken a hit on his "legacy"

[Papaya Petee]

The very next shot the Heat put up, after Wade's 3 pointer to make it 15, was another 3 point attempted... by one D. Wade...

The next shot after that was a missed 3 by Chamler...

The Heat then calls a full timeout...

Wade then takes (and misses) another two 3 point shots, including the last shot of the game...

Lebron during this stretch takes 4 total shots.

So we have:

Lebron: 4 shots (made free throws)
Wade: 3 shots (including the shots immediately after taking the 15 point lead and the last shot)
Chalmers/Bosh: 5 shots (one made 3 pointer)

How this leads one to the bolded assertion...the world will never know...but this is ISH...

Are you going to include the fact that 2 out of the 3 shots Wade took were as follows.

A 3 with the shotclock coming to 0 as LeBron dribbled the shotclock out.
A half court 3 at the buzzer with no time left in the game as LeBron hijacking the offense and missing every shot lost them the lead?

[Wade's Rings]

lol. everyone agrees that mj is better than lebron but people keep pushing it further for some reason and now that everyone agrees that lebron choked in 2011, we have a wade stan who thinks that lebron didn't let wade and bosh do their thing because of taking too many shots.this is comedy. lebron choked because he was afraid of taking shots. you are thinking of kobe in 2004 finals. that was the other kind of choking when you take too many shots because you are afraid to admit that you are not the best player on the team.

When did I say he took too many shots? He took the ball at ill-advised times and did nothing with it. Game 5; Wade comes back in the Game and the Heat immediately make a push and go up 4 after a Wade 3 with about 4 minutes left. Lebron holds the ball for 4 STRAIGHT POSSESSIONS. Why in that situation would you do that? Wade was cooking the Heat had gained momentum. The Heat score 1pt in this stretch and Dallas goes up 5 with about 1:30 remaining. He completely blew the momentum Miami gained with ill-advised shots and turnovers, he also took the ball out of Wade's hands when Wade was cooking. That's what I meant in my previous post not that Bron shot too much.