why did toronto fail to go anywhere with carter and mcgrady?

[RidonKs]

more important why did tmac leave? i know this thread has been made before but i was watching old clips and started reminiscing..

automatic assumption is it's because of the 'small market'. even though toronto is one of the biggest cities in the world, by comparison to the national attention you get on either american coast, 27 million canadians ain't so much. especially in the middle of hockey season.

what i wanna know is how much team mismanagement played into failing to build anything with two young wing studs. was tmac going to leave regardless of how fast they managed to build? the lineup they had for 99 and 00 were pretty friggin awful tho, if they had lured quality players earlier, like they eventually would with marc jackson and hakeem and they had junk yard dog and mopete and willis and a few other pieces. if tmac had stuck around...

in toronto raptor history those first five years held incredible potential but it was all a letdown... :(

[swagga]

more important why did tmac leave? i know this thread has been made before but i was watching old clips and started reminiscing..

automatic assumption is it's because of the 'small market'. even though toronto is one of the biggest cities in the world, by comparison to the national attention you get on either american coast, 27 million canadians ain't so much. especially in the middle of hockey season.

what i wanna know is how much team mismanagement played into failing to build anything with two young wing studs. was tmac going to leave regardless of how fast they managed to build? the lineup they had for 99 and 00 were pretty friggin awful tho, if they had lured quality players earlier, like they eventually would with marc jackson and hakeem and they had junk yard dog and mopete and willis and a few other pieces. if tmac had stuck around...

in toronto raptor history those first five years held incredible potential but it was all a letdown... :(

failed because no consistent inside presence in an era of heavy ISO play which favored bigs (timmy, shaq, zo, malone) instead of chucking wings.

left because he wanted to be the man.

even if he stayed they would not have won anything .. fck autocorrect :lol

[kwajo]

I'm a Geographer, so I'm going to pick on a demographic part of your post: you're about 25% off on your population number, Canada has around 36 million people, not 27 million.

Also, you mention multiple years of playing together, but TMac was just a kid at the time, until the last season he was barely a major part of the rotation because he came right out of high school and didn't have the intelligence and strength to play consistently.

[imdaman99]

What I wanna know is... why the hell was TMac in such a hurry to leave? Wasn't he related to Carter (distant cousins?)? I know he wanted his own team, but he should have stuck it out with Vince at least for 2-3 more years. I suppose you shouldn't turn down big checks as an athlete because no one knows when the next career threatening injury is coming.

It just confuses me, unless he did not like his cousin or realized he was never going to get out of Vinsanity's shadow in Toronto. I don't get it, if I had a cousin on the same team as me and we were going to be the future, I'd try to stick it out with him for a contract or 2 as long as he wasn't gonna cost me too many millions.

[red1]

mcgrady wanted a first option role. probably wanted to get out of his older cousin's shadow. unfortunate because I am certain they would have been a great duo

[bluechox2]

hey look, someone who has never watched basketball in that time but likes talking out of his ass

mcgrady left cause of the same reason alot of superstars in that era left, they didnt like sharing the spotlight...collusion was wrong for them and felt like they could lead a team themselves without another star power

collusion era started with lebron

[JellyBean]

Because Toronto wasn't that good. You have a young T-Mac and Carter. Mixed in with an aging Kevin Willis and Charles Oakley, with a young a Doug Christie, and Dee Brown. You are lucky to get into the playoffs with a roster like that!

[Dragonyeuw]

Tmac wasnt supposed to be 'the man' in Orlando, he was going to be the # 2 behind a prime Grant Hill before his foot injury derailed his career.

[Legends66NBA7]

Because Toronto wasn't that good. You have a young T-Mac and Carter. Mixed in with an aging Kevin Willis and Charles Oakley, with a young a Doug Christie, and Dee Brown. You are lucky to get into the playoffs with a roster like that!

It was worse in the East those years. You didn't need that much talent to go far. The Raptors the following year were 1 shot away from going to the ECF without T-Mac. You don't think with T-Mac they are going further ?

[Kblaze8855]

hey look, someone who has never watched basketball in that time but likes talking out of his ass

mcgrady left cause of the same reason alot of superstars in that era left, they didnt like sharing the spotlight...collusion was wrong for them and felt like they could lead a team themselves without another star power

collusion era started with lebron


The Magic were trying to sign Duncan, Hill, and tmac. They got 2 of the 3.

But you say others dont remember the time in question.....

[NuggetsFan]

The Magic were trying to sign Duncan, Hill, and tmac. They got 2 of the 3.

But you say others dont remember the time in question.....

Carter has to be one of the most popular superstars of All-Time, maybe the most behind Jordan in Canada in his prime. A young T-Mac that took years to develop compared to VC who was the Toronto Raptors is a little different IMO.

They only actually played like what 2 seasons together? 2nd being the one where Carter became Air Canada. It was awhile ago and I was pretty young but didn't Carter like completely overshawdow T-Mac in the dunk contest when they were on the same team? Stuff like that can make your brand.

I'm sure there were tons of other factors for why he left but teaming up in Orlando with Grant Hill when Duncan never actually joined up is a much smaller shadow than playing second fiddle to Vince in Canada.

[Smoke117]

more important why did tmac leave? i know this thread has been made before but i was watching old clips and started reminiscing..

automatic assumption is it's because of the 'small market'. even though toronto is one of the biggest cities in the world, by comparison to the national attention you get on either american coast, 27 million canadians ain't so much. especially in the middle of hockey season.

what i wanna know is how much team mismanagement played into failing to build anything with two young wing studs. was tmac going to leave regardless of how fast they managed to build? the lineup they had for 99 and 00 were pretty friggin awful tho, if they had lured quality players earlier, like they eventually would with marc jackson and hakeem and they had junk yard dog and mopete and willis and a few other pieces. if tmac had stuck around...

in toronto raptor history those first five years held incredible potential but it was all a letdown... :(

That is simple and easy to answer...he didn't wan yto play in Vince's shadow. It really doesn't go beyond that.

[RidonKs]

so is it a consensus that there's nothing the raptors could have done to persuade tmac to stay? it seems odd that he would jump ship from playing in the shadow of his cousin to go costar next to hill or duncan anyway.

btw, could you imagine if tmac had of fked right off and a grant hill / tim duncan duo formed? pretty sure shaq and kobe wouldn't have one or two of their rings had that gone down and hill stayed healthy.

[NuggetsFan]

it seems odd that he would jump ship from playing in the shadow of his cousin to go costar next to hill or duncan anyway.


IMO Vince's shadow in Canada would be up near the top of the list for the biggest in his prime. More so than what McGrady would have dealt with in Orlando. Especially factoring hockey is #1 meaning at the time alot of basketball fans were just casual. Carter was massive.

I actually wonder what would have happened if the Grizzlies landed Carter. If it would have made a difference. Probably not but Carter had that kinda excitement to his game.