Clutch Stats for Kobe, Dirk, Pierce, Allen and Wade

[Rose'sACL]

http://i.imgur.com/eQtlRU5.jpg

[Donkey4trading]

does this include last years playoffs..

[Rose'sACL]

does this include last years playoffs..
yes. these are current stats.

[Lebronxrings]

funny how people call lebron the choker and wade clutch when the stats say otherwise. :lol

[Donkey4trading]

yes. these are current stats.

I'd really like to see some more evidence.. because these stats show a different story..

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/clutch/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&ClutchTime=Last%202%20Minutes&sort=PTS&dir=1

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/clutch/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&ClutchTime=Last%202%20Minutes&sort=PTS&dir=1

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/clutch/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&ClutchTime=Last%202%20Minutes&sort=PTS&dir=1

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/clutch/?Season=2010-11&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&ClutchTime=Last%202%20Minutes&sort=PTS&dir=1

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/clutch/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&ClutchTime=Last%202%20Minutes&sort=PTS&dir=1

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/clutch/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&ClutchTime=Last%202%20Minutes&sort=PTS&dir=1

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/clutch/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&ClutchTime=Last%202%20Minutes&sort=PTS&dir=1

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/clutch/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&ClutchTime=Last%202%20Minutes&sort=PTS&dir=1

a very different story

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I'd really like to see some more evidence.. because these stats show a different story..

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/clutch/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&ClutchTime=Last%202%20Minutes&sort=PTS&dir=1

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/clutch/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&ClutchTime=Last%202%20Minutes&sort=PTS&dir=1

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/clutch/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&ClutchTime=Last%202%20Minutes&sort=PTS&dir=1

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/clutch/?Season=2010-11&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&ClutchTime=Last%202%20Minutes&sort=PTS&dir=1

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/clutch/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&ClutchTime=Last%202%20Minutes&sort=PTS&dir=1

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/clutch/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&ClutchTime=Last%202%20Minutes&sort=PTS&dir=1

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/clutch/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&ClutchTime=Last%202%20Minutes&sort=PTS&dir=1

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/clutch/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&ClutchTime=Last%202%20Minutes&sort=PTS&dir=1

a very different story

Nah.. While the last "2 minutes" are completely arbitrary, OP has the correct stats.

http://s15.postimg.org/x5v0jcedn/52223.png

[Donkey4trading]

Nah.. While the last "2 minutes" are completely arbitrary, OP has the correct stats.

http://s15.postimg.org/x5v0jcedn/52223.png

not only is the time arbitrary but so is "to tie or take the lead" If my team is down 4 or 5 points and player x hits a 3 to bring the game to one possession that isn't clutch according to this

[ArbitraryWater]

not only is the time arbitrary but so is "to tie or take the lead" If my team is down 4 or 5 points and player x hits a 3 to bring the game to one possession that isn't clutch according to this

there are many filters, this is one of them, usually they all represent the same: Kobe's mediocrity, Dirk/Bron clutchness.

Also, since its last TWO minutes, the tie/take lead filter is at least more appropriate than last 5 minutes.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

not only is the time arbitrary but so is "to tie or take the lead" If my team is down 4 or 5 points and player x hits a 3 to bring the game to one possession that isn't clutch according to this

I agree with you - but that's OP in a nutshell. A dishonest coward who cherry-picked these stats just so his guy could look clutch.

Checkout Bron's 4th quarter stats this past finals, specifically during the last 5 minutes of play, with no team up more than 5 (closer to your scenario). You'll get a good laugh, I assure you. :oldlol:

[Rose'sACL]

not only is the time arbitrary but so is "to tie or take the lead" If my team is down 4 or 5 points and player x hits a 3 to bring the game to one possession that isn't clutch according to this
Decide on a criteria to judge clutch stats by and i will post stats for it.
It was kobe fans who made criteria like this. Hell, lebron used to get scrutinized for not taking the last shot when he used to pass to a more open team mate.

[Rose'sACL]

I agree with you - but that's OP in a nutshell. A dishonest coward who cherry-picked these stats just so his guy could look clutch.

Checkout Bron's 4th quarter stats this past finals, specifically during the last 5 minutes of play, with no team up more than 5 (closer to your scenario). You'll get a good laugh, I assure you. :oldlol:
how am i dishonest. i even highlighted the filter used in the picture.

Are you retarded?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

how am i dishonest. i even highlighted the filter used in the picture.

Are you retarded?

You're a little bitch, because you know full well the last 2 minutes couldn't be more arbitrary. Shots to tie or take the lead are USUALLY meant for last possession shots...game winners.

Keep stanning though, clown.

[ArbitraryWater]

You're a little bitch, because you know full well the last 2 minutes couldn't be more arbitrary. Shots to tie or take the lead is usually meant for last possession shots...game winners.

Keep stanning though, clown.

good point.. everything outside of 24 seconds is still multiple possible possession, so anything last minute, two minutes, five, should likely be within a margin of 5-6 pts.

But remember when I busted those stats?

[Rose'sACL]

You're a little bitch, because you know full well the last 2 minutes couldn't be more arbitrary. Shots to tie or take the lead are USUALLY meant for last possession shots...game winners.

Keep stanning though, clown.
tell me your criteria you little bitch. instead of talking about whether or not you like the filters used, you straight up told me that the stats are not correct.
You are on the internet, you should have checked the stats instead of crying like a little bitch.

[Donkey4trading]

there are many filters, this is one of them, usually they all represent the same: Kobe's mediocrity, Dirk/Bron clutchness.

Also, since its last TWO minutes, the tie/take lead filter is at least more appropriate than last 5 minutes.

thats funny because the stats I linked show Kobe to be extremely clutch including 47% during the 08 run, 50% in 09 run & 50% in the 2010 run during clutch situations

not only that but Kobe led the league in 4th quarter playoff scoring in both 01 & 02 while averaging 8 ppg in 01 on 49/39/82 and 02 with 8ppg on 49/50/80

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

tell me your criteria you little bitch. instead of talking about whether or not you like the filters used, you straight up told me that the stats are not correct.
You are on the internet, you should have checked the stats instead of crying like a little bitch.

First of all...I never said the stats were incorrect, moose head. Learn to read.

There are a bunch of criteria's. Look up 82 games' measure of clutch, or even some of Arbitrarywater's posts regarding LeBron's 4th quarter scoring. Quit asking other posters to spoon-feed your dumb ass. :oldlol:

[Akrazotile]

I agree with you - but that's OP in a nutshell. A dishonest coward who cherry-picked these stats just so his guy could look clutch.

Checkout Bron's 4th quarter stats this past finals, specifically during the last 5 minutes of play, with no team up more than 5 (closer to your scenario). You'll get a good laugh, I assure you. :oldlol:



The thing is, its tiring af to carry a scrub team through the playoffs and then have to do every single thing each game in the finals bc the players left on the roster that arent injured have done nothing meaningful in their careers ever. So by the 45th minute the exhaustion starts catchin up Im sure.

When you only make the finals piggybacking off a dominant big man, its much easier to keep up your energy for chucking. And even still... Look at those clutch stats :oldlol:

[Rose'sACL]

First of all...I never said the stats were incorrect, moose head. Learn to read.

There are a bunch of criteria's. Look up 82 games' measure of clutch, or even some of Arbitrarywater's posts regarding LeBron's 4th quarter scoring. Quit asking other posters to spoon-feed your dumb ass. :oldlol:
in the playoffs, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 5:00 or less left in quarter, scoring margin between -5 and 0 points

Kobe: 50-130 on 38.4% http://bkref.com/tiny/7artR
LeBron: 65-140 on 46.4% http://bkref.com/tiny/lvdsc
Dirk: 35-92 on 38% http://bkref.com/tiny/5Hdyl
Pierce: 47-125 on 37.6% http://bkref.com/tiny/fahak


keep crying retard. Even by your criteria, lebron is ahead of kobe.
i only took stats for when lebron's team was trailing. if i took both up or down by 5 stats then lebron would be even more ahead.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

in the playoffs, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 5:00 or less left in quarter, scoring margin between -5 and 0 points

Kobe: 50-130 on 38.4%
LeBron: 65-140 on 46.4%


keep crying retard.

That's nice you compared Kobe to LeBron, but I never made that comparison.

Good job exposing your agenda, baby dick. :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

First of all...I never said the stats were incorrect, moose head. Learn to read.

There are a bunch of criteria's. Look up 82 games' measure of clutch, or even some of Arbitrarywater's posts regarding LeBron's 4th quarter scoring. Quit asking other posters to spoon-feed your dumb ass. :oldlol:

http://r28.imgfast.net/users/2813/22/97/24/smiles/4021133811.gif

[Rose'sACL]

That's nice you compared Kobe to LeBron, but I never made that comparison.

Good job exposing your agenda, baby dick. :oldlol:
Why should i go by anyone else's definition of clutch? I posted stats by your filter and by my filters. Both make lebron look better than pierce, dirk and kobe at least. i will post more stats comparing to others. you keep crying tho.

[G0ATbe]

Further proof that stats don't mean shit and eye test is the way 2 go. Thanks OP.

[Rose'sACL]

Further proof that stats don't mean shit and eye test is the way 2 go. Thanks OP.
i believe the same. Just like your eye test tell you that kobe is clutch even though stats say otherwise, my eye test tell me that refs messed up the scoring and cavs actually won 2015 finals 4-0.
Final game scores are just stats. Eye test is what matters.

[TheMarkMadsen]

i believe the same. Just like your eye test tell you that kobe is clutch even though stats say otherwise, my eye test tell me that refs messed up the scoring and cavs actually won 2015 finals 4-0.
Final game scores are just stats. Eye test is what matters.

Except we've actually seen Kobe hit 30+ game winners, numerous 4th quarter take overs etc etc

[TOLATE]

playoffs, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 2:00 or less left in quarter, shot to tie or take lead
15' Lebron 22%
http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/8ZvKj
09' kobe 50%
http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/b6tqs


------------------
playoffs, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 5:00 or less left in quarter, scoring margin between -5 and 5 points

15' lebron 30%
http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/Iy714

09' kobe 41%
http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/jM1CX

[Rose'sACL]

playoffs, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 2:00 or less left in quarter, shot to tie or take lead
15' Lebron 22%
http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/8ZvKj
09' kobe 50%
http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/b6tqs


------------------
playoffs, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 5:00 or less left in quarter, scoring margin between -5 and 5 points

15' lebron 30%
http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/Iy714

09' kobe 41%
http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/jM1CX
why pick one season when i posted career stats? are you retarded?

[funnystuff]

I agree with you - but that's OP in a nutshell. A dishonest coward who cherry-picked these stats just so his guy could look clutch.

Checkout Bron's 4th quarter stats this past finals, specifically during the last 5 minutes of play, with no team up more than 5 (closer to your scenario). You'll get a good laugh, I assure you. :oldlol:
Lol, you say his stats are correct then you call him dishonest.

kuniva_dAMental

[Akrazotile]

Except we've actually seen Kobe hit 30+ game winners, numerous 4th quarter take overs etc etc



In 19 years of playing and being the alltime leader in shots taken and shots missed, 30 game winners on 25%... It's just not impressive.

It's not even replacement level. Derek Fischer probably blows Kobrick out of the water, he just doesnt qualify for enough attempts bc he can only get a shot when Bean misses since the dude never passes.


Are you a basketball fan or just here to suck a grown man's c0ck? Kobe plays the wrong way at the end of the game, and the stats highlight it very clearly. He tries to hog the individual glory all for himself instead of making the right play, and more than nearly any other player he comes up short bc he made a selfish decision. Point blank. Period. Da fuq you makin excuses for some stranger for??

[Rose'sACL]

Except we've actually seen Kobe hit 30+ game winners, numerous 4th quarter take overs etc etc
but lebron has more game winners in the playoffs if i remember correctly.

[catch24]

playoffs, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 2:00 or less left in quarter, shot to tie or take lead
15' Lebron 22%
http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/8ZvKj
09' kobe 50%
http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/b6tqs


------------------
playoffs, in the 4th quarter or overtime, 5:00 or less left in quarter, scoring margin between -5 and 5 points

15' lebron 30%
http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/Iy714

09' kobe 41%
http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/jM1CX

Tbf LeBron was horrific these last playoffs in late-game situations. For the most part dude is actually better than most his naysayers claim.

[catch24]

Except we've actually seen Kobe hit 30+ game winners, numerous 4th quarter take overs etc etc

Does he have the most game-winners all-time, or is it MJ? Read somewhere that Jordan has some that weren't counted, and should be.


Lol, you say his stats are correct then you call him dishonest.

kuniva_dAMental

Pretty sure Kuniva means the criteria. It does sound foolish limiting the last 2 minutes to one possession. The stats show LeBron is a pretty good clutch player though.

[Rose'sACL]

Does he have the most game-winners all-time, or is it MJ? Read somewhere that Jordan has some that weren't counted, and should be.



Pretty sure Kuniva means the criteria. It does sound foolish limiting the last 2 minutes to one possession. The stats show LeBron is a pretty good clutch player though.
i gave him stats for both criteria unlike what most people on this forum do. instead of debating like a civilized person on whether the criteria should be changed, he straight up called me dishonest. I get it that he is probably pretty angry that stats by both criteria show that lebron is pretty good in clutch but he should learn to calm himself down and not give into the anger.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

http://i.imgur.com/eQtlRU5.jpg

Steve Nash isn't clutch and he can't defend. So how is he a 2 time MVP?

[tpols]

Steve Nash isn't clutch and he can't defend. So how is he a 2 time MVP?

It's not fair to compare the teams nash has faced to the teams bron, pierce and Allen have..

[Akrazotile]

It's not fair to compare the teams nash has faced to the teams bron, pierce and Allen have..


Right bc bron, pierce and allen got to play with prime amare, marion, joe johnson, jrich...


Thats the funny thing bout people talkin about conference disparity. The reason its so strong is cause the stars in the west have real teams around them. Meanwhile dwayne wade is spending his prime trying to carry chalmers, beasley, joel anthony and udonis haslem into the playoffs :facepalm

[tpols]

Right bc bron, pierce and allen got to play with prime amare, marion, joe johnson, jrich...


Thats the funny thing bout people talkin about conference disparity. The reason its so strong is cause the stars in the west have real teams around them. Meanwhile dwayne wade is spending his prime trying to carry chalmers, beasley, joel anthony and udonis haslem into the playoffs :facepalm

I think you're missing the point.. there's no early rounds to pad percentages against out west. Not to mention you're reeling off names like amare and Joe johnson while lebron has played with prime wade/bosh and wade has played with a still MVP candidate shaq and of course prime lebron.. lol

[Akrazotile]

I think you're missing the point.. there's no early rounds to pad percentages against out west. Not to mention you're reeling off names like amare and Joe johnson while lebron has played with prime wade/bosh and wade has played with a still MVP candidate shaq and of course prime lebron.. lol


Yeah, and Bron won a couple of titles when he had good teams. Wade won one with Shaq and might have won another if not for injury (tho prob not).


But the point is that bc of how people vote for MVP, someone like '09 Wade will have virtually no shot bc his team isnt good enough to have a top record no matter how good he is. But if you play at that same level in the west while having all stars around you, youre gonna have a better shot at MVP.

Guys like Nash, Nowitzki, Curry, Kobe, Durant are far more likely to win the "best player on the best team" MVP than someone like Jason Kidd trying to drag a mediocre Nets team around. Post-MJ, the only three guys who everyone knows are genuinely the actual MVP each year are Shaq, Duncan, Lebron. Whenever the media hands out a feel-good, "congrats on a nice season" MVP its probably going to someone in the west. Rose has basically been the one exception.

[tpols]

Yeah, and Bron won a couple of titles when he had good teams. Wade won one with Shaq and might have won another if not for injury (tho prob not).


But the point is that bc of how people vote for MVP, someone like '09 Wade will have virtually no shot bc his team isnt good enough to have a top record no matter how good he is. But if you play at that same level in the west while having all stars around you, youre gonna have a better shot at MVP.

Guys like Nash, Nowitzki, Curry, Kobe, Durant are far more likely to win the "best player on the best team" MVP than someone like Jason Kidd trying to drag a mediocre Nets team around. Post-MJ, the only three guys who everyone knows are genuinely the actual MVP each year are Shaq, Duncan, Lebron. Whenever the media hands out a feel-good, "congrats on a nice season" MVP its probably going to someone in the west. Rose has basically been the one exception.

I think you're going off topic man.. op's about plsyoff clutch stats not regular season MVPs.. bron pierce and allen have played a ton of their games out east against garbage competition. Nash has played his whole career against dominant west teams mostly as an underdog.

[Akrazotile]

I think you're going off topic man.. op's about clutch stats not MVPs.. bron pierce and allen have played a ton of their games out east against garbage competition. Nash has played his whole career against dominant west teams mostly as an underdog.


Well the first post of yours I responded to was a response to someone talking about MVPs so thats why I was commentin on it.

Anyway I still dont think it makes a difference. "Clutch" is vastly overrated anyway; even if it werent, the East has tough defensive teams while Kobe feasts on the likes of the Suns and Jazz and the Melo-Iverson Nuggets. Literally some historically bad defensive teams. And STILL has a terrible "clutch" percentage.

[tpols]

Well the first post of yours I responded to was a response to someone talking about MVPs so thats why I was commentin on it.

Anyway I still dont think it makes a difference. "Clutch" is vastly overrated anyway; even if it werent, the East has tough defensive teams while Kobe feasts on the likes of the Suns and Jazz and the Melo-Iverson Nuggets. Literally some historically bad defensive teams. And STILL has a terrible "clutch" percentage.

Out west there could be worse defensive teams but their offense is so much better than that out east that it puts extra pressure on you hitting the shot.. doug collins sixers were a top 7 defensive team but weren't hitting a shot to save their life.. no dirk no Duncan no kobe, I can only imagine the relief on Steve's face when he finds out Evan Turner is going to be the guy responding to his shot. :yaohappy:

[eliteballer]

The East doesn't have tougher defensive teams, it's just that most of them suck offensively and can't score on each other:roll:

Put Kobe on those Miami Super Teams and let him feast on sub 40 win "playoff" teams and see his FG% go up.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

A few kobe stans out in full force in this thread.

[JT123]

The East doesn't have tougher defensive teams, it's just that most of them suck offensively and can't score on each other:roll:

Put Kobe on those Miami Super Teams and let him feast on sub 40 win "playoff" teams and see his FG% go up.
Guess this would explain why baldbe shoots 41% in the Finals for his career. :oldlol:

[Lebron23]

Lebron is very clutch. I haven't seen any player who get more criticism than him.

[Smoke117]

Wade >>>>>>>>> everyone here x 100000000. These numbers can go kill themselves.

[Akrazotile]

Guess this would explain why baldbe shoots 41% in the Finals for his career. :oldlol:


Exactly.

Those Pistons and Celtic and Magic teams were the ones Lebron was facing in conference semis and finals year after year with the cavs. Yet he shoots a good percentage against them and is very high in "clutch statistics."

Kobe.... Not so much.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Ray's %age here is an unfair comparison - most of his clutch shots I remember (as a Celtic) were catch-and-shoots, much lower difficulty compared to everyone else's on that list. I don't remember Allen ever taking a shot like Dirks to win G3 or 4 in Miami, or Kobe's against the Suns, or Pierces against Chicago in 09.

Would be happy to be proven wrong but that's not my recollection of him as a player

[Mr Feeny]

The East doesn't have tougher defensive teams, it's just that most of them suck offensively and can't score on each other:roll:

Put Kobe on those Miami Super Teams and let him feast on sub 40 win "playoff" teams and see his FG% go up.

Oh boy:lebronamazed:

[Pointguard]

Ray's %age here is an unfair comparison - most of his clutch shots I remember (as a Celtic) were catch-and-shoots, much lower difficulty compared to everyone else's on that list. I don't remember Allen ever taking a shot like Dirks to win G3 or 4 in Miami, or Kobe's against the Suns, or Pierces against Chicago in 09.

Would be happy to be proven wrong but that's not my recollection of him as a player
Good luck on anybody understanding this one. Rose was the only creator on his team and was assisted on like only 22% of his shots and nobody wants to hear that. On the flip side, Ray before the Celtic's was creating shots for himself and making them from a longer range than the other players here: He wasn't like Reggie Miller whose team used every player to get him free for the shot.

[Magic 32]

Exactly.

Those Pistons and Celtic and Magic teams were the ones Lebron was facing in conference semis and finals year after year with the cavs. Yet he shoots a good percentage against them and is very high in "clutch statistics."



http://media.giphy.com/media/LUxOyzLDy9zpK/giphy.gif

[WayOfWade]

I'm kind of disappointed Dwyane Wade, thought he was better in the clutch. Obviously there's more to clutch was than this, but this is still pretty important

[TheMarkMadsen]

I'm kind of disappointed Dwyane Wade, thought he was better in the clutch. Obviously there's more to clutch was than this, but this is still pretty important

Wade is very clutch don't let these arbitrary numbers fool you

http://uproxx.com/dimemag/2014/01/dwyane-wades-20-clutch-moments/

[WayOfWade]

Wade is very clutch don't let these arbitrary numbers fool you

http://uproxx.com/dimemag/2014/01/dwyane-wades-20-clutch-moments/
Thanks. Wade is clutch, but just in the last 2 minutes his play seems to waver a little. I remember just being frustrated with him for a while because he'd always seem to miss clutch free throws or shots (like G2 vs Pacers in 2012), but he is still is and was reliable to an extent.

[knicksman]

Judge the player against the best team they face in the playoffs. Kobe constantly demolish them(spurs) while bran disappears. And thats the gap between kobe and bran and that also explains why bran is 2/6. Average dont mean shit just like your average grade coz anyone with a brain knows that only math determines iq.

[Gileraracer]

funny how people call lebron the choker and wade clutch when the stats say otherwise. :lol

Fvck the stats, eyetest says LeBron is a choker

[SpaceJammeR]

lol at lebron haters. only thing they got left is the eye test. with lebron they shut they eyes.

[Magic 32]

lol at lebron haters. only thing they got left is the eye test. with lebron they shut they eyes.

See if your eye test can make sense of this...

50+

2/6

Kawhi Iguodala

[ShawkFactory]

Judge the player against the best team they face in the playoffs. Kobe constantly demolish them(spurs) while bran disappears. And thats the gap between kobe and bran and that also explains why bran is 2/6. Average dont mean shit just like your average grade coz anyone with a brain knows that only math determines iq.
An astonishingly retarded post.

Like...from start to finish.